[osdcmy-public] Re: Cadangan untuk berkorban sempena Eid-ul Adha.
saya pun sama seperti en hanif sukerelawan Melalui Muslimaid boleh bantu dari segi edaran daging korban untuk mereka yang layak di sekitar selangor. 2009/10/29 ha...@um.edu.my Salam... saya sedia membantu, kebetulan saya ade join group sukarelawan muslim aid.. tapi saya maybe just boleh bantu untuk hantarkan bekalan daging je la.. part2 lain tu tak pasti le pulak.. so muslim aid cadangkan agar bantuan dihantar ke rumah anak yatim pelarian rohingya di selayang nu.. dan kalau nak bagi tempat lain jugak, boleh bagi dekat asdaf ( asrama anak yatim darul falah ) dekat bangsar tu.. ape2hal saya bagitau.. http://www.muslimaid.com htp://donateforummah.com sekian Quoting Mohd Hidzuan hidz...@gmail.com on Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:11:46 +0800: Salam Sejahtera Kehadapan rakan-rakan seperjuangan, Kami ingin mempelawa kepada rakan untuk menguruskan seekor lembu yang sudah sedia ada. Lembu ini telah disediakan dan bahagian nya sudah dipenuhi, Oleh itu kami meminta rakan yang mempunyai idea atau cadangan utuk disedekahkan, dimana dan serta menguruskannya. Diharap dengan pengorbanan ini dapat menambah rahmat dan barakah kepada usaha kita selama ini. Oleh itu sebarang cadangan untuk tempat untuk disedekahkan, kumpulan kerja yang terlibat, amat2 dialu-alukan. Lembu yang disedekahkan oleh kami adalah dari Selangor, maka sebarang tempat seperti rumah anak yatim, rumah orang tua, masjid mestilah dari Selangor jua. Sekian, Wsalam. ... To follow the path, look to the master, follow the master, walk with the master, see through the master, become the master. Selasih Net Enterprise we never sleep, we just park our head UNIVERSITY OF MALAYA - The Leader in Research Innovation --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
nice. red1 wrote: Baru tadi saya selesai menghadiri forum anjuran MDec bersama FOSSmy dimana beberapa tokoh dunia seperti Brian Aker dan David Axmark (rakan pereka MySQL). Setelah mendedahkan soal budaya yang sama dirasai oleh mereka walaupun di Eropah, dimana mereka sendiri tidak ada sokongan melainkan PC sendiri dan hari kelapangan hujung minggu. David mengambil masa 5 tahun lamanya sebelum negaranya sendiri iaitu Sweden menyiarkan tentang MySQL. Itupun setelah ia jadi masyur di Amerika Syarikat. David mengesahkan bahawa pernah beberapa kali mereka menolak soal perniagaan kerana ingin fokus pada MySQL. Pakar perniagaan sering menganggu mereka dengan tawaran yang mereka tidak mempersetujui. Orang bisnes juga turut tidak memahami mengapa pereka ini tidak mahu berniaga lebih komersil. Lihatlah semangat mereka yang tidak putus asa dengan sumber terbuka. Itulah rahsia kejayaan mereka. Dalam forum tadi, beberapa pegawai MDec mengenali saya dan bersetuju ingin menyokong apa jua permohonan saya untuk mendapat dana dari sana. Saya dengan rendah diri menolak pelawaan tersebut. Saya meminta mereka supaya fikirkanlah rakan-rakan dan adik-adik lain di sini. Saya sudah tidak perlu pertolongan mereka kerana ingin membuktikan keihklasan permintaan mudah ini. Saya hanya mahu perjuangkan mereka ini yang belum kecewa. Hukum-hakam dan perundangan dalam borang meminta dana hendaklah dikaji semula dan diperbaiki. Justru itu soal mengaitkan sesuatu usaha innovasi dengan berkesanan projek dan keuntungan komersil hendaklah dipisahkan. Innovasi adalah innovasi. Tidak ada kait mengait dengan soal komersil. Sekurang-kurangnya belum lagi. Lihatlah Harvard dan sejarahnya selama 300 tahun yang bermula dengan 11 pelajar dan seorang pensyarah. Mereka mencari ilmu dan mencipta ilmu baru, bukan produk dan soal keuntungan. Lihatlah Universiti Princeton yang menjemput Albert Einstein untuk datang dan duduk sahaja tanpa mengajar. Mengapa? Kita di sini tidak akan mencapai tahap kejayaan mereka. Bukan kita tidak ada cerdik pandai malah cukup banyak saya jumpa. Tetapi mereka ditakut2kan dengan istilah bombastik yang tidak perlu. Mereka dizalimi sebenarnya. Siapa yang rugi? Kita adalah rakyat yang berhak untuk mengajukan pandangan yang bernas demi negara tersayang kita. Saya juga meminta pegawai MDec untuk menjemput pihak OSDC.my supaya berdialog secara terus-terang tanpa pra-sangka. Kosongkanlah minda bahawa OSDC.my yang perlu wang seolah pengemis di negara sendiri. Kita bukan pengemis. Kita adalah modal insan dan pembawa generasi masa depan negara. Sekian dengan ikhlas dari saya, red1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
Saya baru mendapatkan khidmat nasihat mengenai hasrat saya untuk membangunkan Malaysian Common Desktop dengan wakil MDec di Kelantan. Nampaknya beliau sangat berminat dengan idea tersebut, namun dengan satu pertanyaan, Bagaimana anda mendapatkan keuntungan dari produk ini Saya tidak berhasrat untuk membelakangi Ubuntu, malah Ubuntu akan menjadi mentor untuk produk ini. Produk ini akan menjadi A Better Ubuntu for Malaysian. Saya memerlukan dana kerana saya belum berjumpa dengan pengaturcara yang sedia bekerja secara percuma (bukan freedom tapi free) kerana proses ini memerlukan masa yang panjang. Masa lebih bernilai daripada emas. Saya tak mahu dana untuk naik ke angkasa lepas, cukup untuk membayar elaun, peralatan atau membiayai program yang akan dianjurkan. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C 2009/10/29 Marcus mar...@python.my: nice. red1 wrote: Baru tadi saya selesai menghadiri forum anjuran MDec bersama FOSSmy dimana beberapa tokoh dunia seperti Brian Aker dan David Axmark (rakan pereka MySQL). Setelah mendedahkan soal budaya yang sama dirasai oleh mereka walaupun di Eropah, dimana mereka sendiri tidak ada sokongan melainkan PC sendiri dan hari kelapangan hujung minggu. David mengambil masa 5 tahun lamanya sebelum negaranya sendiri iaitu Sweden menyiarkan tentang MySQL. Itupun setelah ia jadi masyur di Amerika Syarikat. David mengesahkan bahawa pernah beberapa kali mereka menolak soal perniagaan kerana ingin fokus pada MySQL. Pakar perniagaan sering menganggu mereka dengan tawaran yang mereka tidak mempersetujui. Orang bisnes juga turut tidak memahami mengapa pereka ini tidak mahu berniaga lebih komersil. Lihatlah semangat mereka yang tidak putus asa dengan sumber terbuka. Itulah rahsia kejayaan mereka. Dalam forum tadi, beberapa pegawai MDec mengenali saya dan bersetuju ingin menyokong apa jua permohonan saya untuk mendapat dana dari sana. Saya dengan rendah diri menolak pelawaan tersebut. Saya meminta mereka supaya fikirkanlah rakan-rakan dan adik-adik lain di sini. Saya sudah tidak perlu pertolongan mereka kerana ingin membuktikan keihklasan permintaan mudah ini. Saya hanya mahu perjuangkan mereka ini yang belum kecewa. Hukum-hakam dan perundangan dalam borang meminta dana hendaklah dikaji semula dan diperbaiki. Justru itu soal mengaitkan sesuatu usaha innovasi dengan berkesanan projek dan keuntungan komersil hendaklah dipisahkan. Innovasi adalah innovasi. Tidak ada kait mengait dengan soal komersil. Sekurang-kurangnya belum lagi. Lihatlah Harvard dan sejarahnya selama 300 tahun yang bermula dengan 11 pelajar dan seorang pensyarah. Mereka mencari ilmu dan mencipta ilmu baru, bukan produk dan soal keuntungan. Lihatlah Universiti Princeton yang menjemput Albert Einstein untuk datang dan duduk sahaja tanpa mengajar. Mengapa? Kita di sini tidak akan mencapai tahap kejayaan mereka. Bukan kita tidak ada cerdik pandai malah cukup banyak saya jumpa. Tetapi mereka ditakut2kan dengan istilah bombastik yang tidak perlu. Mereka dizalimi sebenarnya. Siapa yang rugi? Kita adalah rakyat yang berhak untuk mengajukan pandangan yang bernas demi negara tersayang kita. Saya juga meminta pegawai MDec untuk menjemput pihak OSDC.my supaya berdialog secara terus-terang tanpa pra-sangka. Kosongkanlah minda bahawa OSDC.my yang perlu wang seolah pengemis di negara sendiri. Kita bukan pengemis. Kita adalah modal insan dan pembawa generasi masa depan negara. Sekian dengan ikhlas dari saya, red1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Cadangan Varsity Hackerm Tour
menarik.. 2009/10/29 red1 r...@red1.org Baru tadi saya berbincang dengan Azrul untuk mengemukakan satu rancangan yang boleh menarik peminat khusus iaitu satu program (yg boleh tumpang atas Linux Varsiti) tetapi khusus dan panjang sikit: 1. Satu minggu di setiap varsiti secara khusus selepas pameran dan persembahan LinuxVarsiti 2. Varsiti Hacker Tour bergerak dalam bilik makmal dengan tayangan ke layar besar untuk ditontoni penuntut perisian sumber terbuka 3. Azrul dan saya akan melakukan pair programming secara sistematik 4. JipangSyazwan akan merakamkan secara live/tube/reality. 5. Setiap varsiti bukan ulangan program tetapi bersambung iaitu sekiranya kita bermula di universiti A tentang setup kod baru, universiti B akan bersambung kod berikut tanpa mengulangi. Dengan itu projek itu siap pada akhir tour tersebut. 6. Dana untuk promosi di media massa perlu supaya warga varsiti semua akan mengikutinya secara atas talian, dan apabila tiba di varsiti secara fizikal pasti sambutan lebih intim. 7. Blog/streaming realiti berterusan mengekori pasukan akan menjadi tumpuan. Ramai sukarelawan atau anggota projek boleh mengambil bahagian dan menyumbangkan kod masing2. 8. Produk outcome pada akhir tour selama 6 bulan nanti Azrul dan saya akan menghasilkan: a. integrasi GUI baru atas ADempiere b. integrasi WF Joget ERP c. integrasi BI tools d. hasil kerja sukarelawan varsiti seluruh malaysia e. dokumentasi perjalanan dan komuniti khusus untuk Java enterprise development WDYT? -- apa pendapat anda semua? red1 -- Never Underestimated People Stupidity http://www.se7enet.co.cc --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
In some ways that is very true. One day someone might invent that star-trek device that can create food, gold or anything by just adding electrons to atoms. Then everyone can work for free and the betterment of human race. Until then... funds are required to get things working. The guy on mysql wouldn't even be able to survice if he didn't have an ongoing paid job, someone , somewhere is always paying , one way or the other. If i live in some European countries, i might get away by coding all the way and giving the gov a "i cant work, nobody hire me" and live on the meager Gov funds for jobless until my project kicks off. Over here, realistically, it would be good news enuf for many if funds are used for the right work and results. Marcus. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar wrote: Saya baru mendapatkan khidmat nasihat mengenai hasrat saya untuk membangunkan Malaysian Common Desktop dengan wakil MDec di Kelantan. Nampaknya beliau sangat berminat dengan idea tersebut, namun dengan satu pertanyaan, "Bagaimana anda mendapatkan keuntungan dari produk ini" Saya tidak berhasrat untuk membelakangi Ubuntu, malah Ubuntu akan menjadi mentor untuk produk ini. Produk ini akan menjadi "A Better Ubuntu for Malaysian". Saya memerlukan dana kerana saya belum berjumpa dengan pengaturcara yang sedia bekerja secara percuma (bukan "freedom" tapi "free") kerana proses ini memerlukan masa yang panjang. Masa lebih bernilai daripada emas. Saya tak mahu dana untuk naik ke angkasa lepas, cukup untuk membayar elaun, peralatan atau membiayai program yang akan dianjurkan. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C 2009/10/29 Marcus mar...@python.my: nice. red1 wrote: Baru tadi saya selesai menghadiri forum anjuran MDec bersama FOSSmy dimana beberapa tokoh dunia seperti Brian Aker dan David Axmark (rakan pereka MySQL). Setelah mendedahkan soal budaya yang sama dirasai oleh mereka walaupun di Eropah, dimana mereka sendiri tidak ada sokongan melainkan PC sendiri dan hari kelapangan hujung minggu. David mengambil masa 5 tahun lamanya sebelum negaranya sendiri iaitu Sweden menyiarkan tentang MySQL. Itupun setelah ia jadi masyur di Amerika Syarikat. David mengesahkan bahawa pernah beberapa kali mereka menolak soal perniagaan kerana ingin fokus pada MySQL. Pakar perniagaan sering menganggu mereka dengan tawaran yang mereka tidak mempersetujui. Orang bisnes juga turut tidak memahami mengapa pereka ini tidak mahu berniaga lebih komersil. Lihatlah semangat mereka yang tidak putus asa dengan sumber terbuka. Itulah rahsia kejayaan mereka. Dalam forum tadi, beberapa pegawai MDec mengenali saya dan bersetuju ingin menyokong apa jua permohonan saya untuk mendapat dana dari sana. Saya dengan rendah diri menolak pelawaan tersebut. Saya meminta mereka supaya fikirkanlah rakan-rakan dan adik-adik lain di sini. Saya sudah tidak perlu pertolongan mereka kerana ingin membuktikan keihklasan permintaan mudah ini. Saya hanya mahu perjuangkan mereka ini yang belum kecewa. Hukum-hakam dan perundangan dalam borang meminta dana hendaklah dikaji semula dan diperbaiki. Justru itu soal mengaitkan sesuatu usaha innovasi dengan berkesanan projek dan keuntungan komersil hendaklah dipisahkan. Innovasi adalah innovasi. Tidak ada kait mengait dengan soal komersil. Sekurang-kurangnya belum lagi. Lihatlah Harvard dan sejarahnya selama 300 tahun yang bermula dengan 11 pelajar dan seorang pensyarah. Mereka mencari ilmu dan mencipta ilmu baru, bukan produk dan soal keuntungan. Lihatlah Universiti Princeton yang menjemput Albert Einstein untuk datang dan duduk sahaja tanpa mengajar. Mengapa? Kita di sini tidak akan mencapai tahap kejayaan mereka. Bukan kita tidak ada cerdik pandai malah cukup banyak saya jumpa. Tetapi mereka ditakut2kan dengan istilah bombastik yang tidak perlu. Mereka dizalimi sebenarnya. Siapa yang rugi? Kita adalah rakyat yang berhak untuk mengajukan pandangan yang bernas demi negara tersayang kita. Saya juga meminta pegawai MDec untuk menjemput pihak OSDC.my supaya berdialog secara terus-terang tanpa pra-sangka. Kosongkanlah minda bahawa OSDC.my yang perlu wang seolah pengemis di negara sendiri. Kita bukan pengemis. Kita adalah modal insan dan pembawa generasi masa depan negara. Sekian dengan ikhlas dari saya, red1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
2009/10/29 Marcus mar...@python.my: Until then... funds are required to get things working. The guy on mysql wouldn't even be able to survice if he didn't have I don't think this is an accurate representation of MySQL's history. You should have attended David Axmark's talk on Sunday morning where one can be humbled at how MySQL was basically built from ground up (ie from nothing) and without understanding or asking for funding etc. Getting paid at the start of the project is always good but it is not a necessary condition to run a project or build great software. If you can, go forth and get funding; but if you don't get funding, don't let that stop you from achieving your goals :) Ditesh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
Ditesh, Any chance his presentation will be uploaded/circulated ? I was one of the few guilty ones that missed due to an overshot alarm clock. :-( On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Ditesh Kumar ditesh.ku...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/10/29 Marcus mar...@python.my: Until then... funds are required to get things working. The guy on mysql wouldn't even be able to survice if he didn't have I don't think this is an accurate representation of MySQL's history. You should have attended David Axmark's talk on Sunday morning where one can be humbled at how MySQL was basically built from ground up (ie from nothing) and without understanding or asking for funding etc. Getting paid at the start of the project is always good but it is not a necessary condition to run a project or build great software. If you can, go forth and get funding; but if you don't get funding, don't let that stop you from achieving your goals :) Ditesh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 6:45 PM, BRIAN RITCHIE esqbrianritc...@gmail.com wrote: Ditesh, Any chance his presentation will be uploaded/circulated ? I was one of the few guilty ones that missed due to an overshot alarm clock. :-( We're chasing up for the video! But here are a couple screencaps: http://bytebot.posterous.com/david-axmark-tells-you-how-to-boot-your-start http://bytebot.posterous.com/funding-a-startup-start-your-business-while-y Btw, David is investing in FOSS based startups (yes, David's a Free Software + Open Source chap), especially those community related: http://bytebot.posterous.com/david-is-an-investor-now-what-is-he-looking-f Oh, and software patents suck: http://bytebot.posterous.com/david-says-no-to-software-patents-they-suck-f Ditesh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
I know. Its no excuse and I openly admit it. Late night unfortunately though I agree, missing his talk was inexcusable. Ditesh, thanks a mill dude. Greatly appreciated -BRIAN RITCHIE On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 6:56 PM, red1 r...@red1.org wrote: Brian, Shame on you! Overshot alarm clock? :) Well, even though its uploaded to youtube later, nothing beats been there in person. You could see his body language and glimmer in his eyes when he said what he said, We do have a business plan. It is only a single paper with a single line, 'We think it can work.' I noticed from his eyes, how he hated to be insulted by those men in black suits and neckties. :) red1 BRIAN RITCHIE wrote: Ditesh, Any chance his presentation will be uploaded/circulated ? I was one of the few guilty ones that missed due to an overshot alarm clock. :-( --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Cadangan Varsity Hackerm Tour
hi red1 all, now you are talking with due respect, the current LinuxU program, as I see it, is good; but its only spreading the love, NOT the skills! With a programming workshop as you are suggesting, that is spreading the skills, and I'm more motivated to participate. But this a more involved program, it involves actual training, not only in programming skills, BUT in modern SW Development practices... What I mean by that is not just teaching them a language (Java, Python, Ruby, PHP, etc..) but also skills familiarity with Agile development methodology - pair programming, unit-tests, iteration cycles... not to mention code versioning. I'm am surprised by why this is not even taught in Uni's, or they may taught but never use! Another important thing is to expose students to what is out there, see end of this message... then equip them with the basic skills and let them choose (if they are able rto...) (I guess end of the day, there will be different types of programmers - as per my earlier mail, and we will need 'Drone Programmers', but teaching these are knda dull don't you think? ;-) And then after that you are talking of getting them onto areas of specialization... and or using various libraries or frameworks. For example in Web-development, its a whole big world out there... just for web frameworks.. PHP - Drupal, Joomla, Xoops, and Java and Python has a whole bunch! And we are not even talking of 'cloud' applications like GAE! Other areas of specialization could be: graphics animation, game development, mobile, systems/network security (real hacking;-) and of course biz apps like ERP ;-) So what I'm trying to say is that once we get into it, its almost like developing a whole syllabus for SW Engineering, - and we might as well work with University to develop the syllabus, and probably help teach it! I dont know about yr experiences, but from my general knowledge and having recently taught a Python Intro course to 3,4 yr Uni students, what I can say is the general level of programming skills are VERY low. Not only that, their conceptual knowledge is also low. Also, I'll like to emphasize, when teaching programming, one must not just focus on teaching a language, but rather on concepts (ie: algoritms and data-structures). I feel sometimes we get too 'attached' to a language and think thats its greatest thing on earth. Then we fall into the trap of ..if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail! Certain languages have strengths in certain things, and some concepts may be better expressed in some languages. And a good programmer would have several tools in their toolbox and choose a particular language for different types of projects. And 'new' languages and concepts are always being invented or recycled everyday, and if anything we should make students aware of this. e.g. some time back Azrul mentioned Scala, a language designed for highly distributed and concurrent use, based on continuations. But the concept of continuations came about with functional languages that traces its root back to Lisp, which predates C! And Erlang is another such highly concurrent langauge, invented by Ericsson and OSS, at about the same time as Java. Another recycled concept is the new bunch of schemaless DBs, among them Googles BigTable, CouchDB, etc.. meant to sit on the cloud. This first came about with the MUMPS programming language, which again predates C. And MUMPs itself has several OSS versiona and there are 2 commercial MUMPS DB, by GTM and Intersystems Cache, which run very large healthcare and financial applications. either of these would make very powerful and useful tools in programmers hands,... Yes, its a whole big world out there, and just talking about Jave (or Python) is a tiny drop... and not enough. ;-) Sure, I'll like to contribute to your program, let's spread the skills not just the love... 2009/10/29 red1 r...@red1.org: Baru tadi saya berbincang dengan Azrul untuk mengemukakan satu rancangan yang boleh menarik peminat khusus iaitu satu program (yg boleh tumpang atas Linux Varsiti) tetapi khusus dan panjang sikit: 1. Satu minggu di setiap varsiti secara khusus selepas pameran dan persembahan LinuxVarsiti 2. Varsiti Hacker Tour bergerak dalam bilik makmal dengan tayangan ke layar besar untuk ditontoni penuntut perisian sumber terbuka 3. Azrul dan saya akan melakukan pair programming secara sistematik 4. JipangSyazwan akan merakamkan secara live/tube/reality. 5. Setiap varsiti bukan ulangan program tetapi bersambung iaitu sekiranya kita bermula di universiti A tentang setup kod baru, universiti B akan bersambung kod berikut tanpa mengulangi. Dengan itu projek itu siap pada akhir tour tersebut. 6. Dana untuk promosi di media massa perlu supaya warga varsiti semua akan mengikutinya secara atas talian, dan apabila tiba di varsiti secara fizikal pasti sambutan lebih intim. 7. Blog/streaming realiti berterusan mengekori pasukan akan menjadi
[osdcmy-public] Re: Cadangan Varsity Hackerm Tour
Boh, if you ever received thread about LinuxVarsiti in Python.my mlist.. that's why I'm want your community join us.. too bad there's no one from language community ever appear at last event.. On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi red1 all, now you are talking with due respect, the current LinuxU program, as I see it, is good; but its only spreading the love, NOT the skills! With a programming workshop as you are suggesting, that is spreading the skills, and I'm more motivated to participate. But this a more involved program, it involves actual training, not only in programming skills, BUT in modern SW Development practices... What I mean by that is not just teaching them a language (Java, Python, Ruby, PHP, etc..) but also skills familiarity with Agile development methodology - pair programming, unit-tests, iteration cycles... not to mention code versioning. I'm am surprised by why this is not even taught in Uni's, or they may taught but never use! Another important thing is to expose students to what is out there, see end of this message... then equip them with the basic skills and let them choose (if they are able rto...) (I guess end of the day, there will be different types of programmers - as per my earlier mail, and we will need 'Drone Programmers', but teaching these are knda dull don't you think? ;-) And then after that you are talking of getting them onto areas of specialization... and or using various libraries or frameworks. For example in Web-development, its a whole big world out there... just for web frameworks.. PHP - Drupal, Joomla, Xoops, and Java and Python has a whole bunch! And we are not even talking of 'cloud' applications like GAE! Other areas of specialization could be: graphics animation, game development, mobile, systems/network security (real hacking;-) and of course biz apps like ERP ;-) So what I'm trying to say is that once we get into it, its almost like developing a whole syllabus for SW Engineering, - and we might as well work with University to develop the syllabus, and probably help teach it! I dont know about yr experiences, but from my general knowledge and having recently taught a Python Intro course to 3,4 yr Uni students, what I can say is the general level of programming skills are VERY low. Not only that, their conceptual knowledge is also low. Also, I'll like to emphasize, when teaching programming, one must not just focus on teaching a language, but rather on concepts (ie: algoritms and data-structures). I feel sometimes we get too 'attached' to a language and think thats its greatest thing on earth. Then we fall into the trap of ..if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail! Certain languages have strengths in certain things, and some concepts may be better expressed in some languages. And a good programmer would have several tools in their toolbox and choose a particular language for different types of projects. And 'new' languages and concepts are always being invented or recycled everyday, and if anything we should make students aware of this. e.g. some time back Azrul mentioned Scala, a language designed for highly distributed and concurrent use, based on continuations. But the concept of continuations came about with functional languages that traces its root back to Lisp, which predates C! And Erlang is another such highly concurrent langauge, invented by Ericsson and OSS, at about the same time as Java. Another recycled concept is the new bunch of schemaless DBs, among them Googles BigTable, CouchDB, etc.. meant to sit on the cloud. This first came about with the MUMPS programming language, which again predates C. And MUMPs itself has several OSS versiona and there are 2 commercial MUMPS DB, by GTM and Intersystems Cache, which run very large healthcare and financial applications. either of these would make very powerful and useful tools in programmers hands,... Yes, its a whole big world out there, and just talking about Jave (or Python) is a tiny drop... and not enough. ;-) Sure, I'll like to contribute to your program, let's spread the skills not just the love... 2009/10/29 red1 r...@red1.org: Baru tadi saya berbincang dengan Azrul untuk mengemukakan satu rancangan yang boleh menarik peminat khusus iaitu satu program (yg boleh tumpang atas Linux Varsiti) tetapi khusus dan panjang sikit: 1. Satu minggu di setiap varsiti secara khusus selepas pameran dan persembahan LinuxVarsiti 2. Varsiti Hacker Tour bergerak dalam bilik makmal dengan tayangan ke layar besar untuk ditontoni penuntut perisian sumber terbuka 3. Azrul dan saya akan melakukan pair programming secara sistematik 4. JipangSyazwan akan merakamkan secara live/tube/reality. 5. Setiap varsiti bukan ulangan program tetapi bersambung iaitu sekiranya kita bermula di universiti A tentang setup kod baru, universiti B akan
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
He was jobless when he did that? I didn't assume he asked for funding, i just assumed he had spare time and an existing paid job. At least that is how the traditional school was to me...fund your own ideas with your own money. When i first co-started a company in 1999, i swiped my credit card RM 5k for a dell 486 machine, worked in a rented apartment, survived on saved salaries, lots of mineral water and Mat Wan Burger stall. I did wished i got some fundings and never got any back then, neither did i know how to. What i do know is : 1. funding is taking people's money, you better do good with it 2. Its business as usual. - cheers marcus. Ditesh Kumar wrote: 2009/10/29 Marcus mar...@python.my: Until then... funds are required to get things working. The guy on mysql wouldn't even be able to survice if he didn't have I don't think this is an accurate representation of MySQL's history. You should have attended David Axmark's talk on Sunday morning where one can be humbled at how MySQL was basically built from ground up (ie from nothing) and without understanding or asking for funding etc. Getting paid at the start of the project is always good but it is not a necessary condition to run a project or build great software. If you can, go forth and get funding; but if you don't get funding, don't let that stop you from achieving your goals :) Ditesh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Marcus mar...@python.my wrote: He was jobless when he did that? I didn't assume he asked for funding, i And in fact, they also rejected funding early on coming from prominent sources. As David says, Know what you need, not what you want :) Ditesh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
I am agree with Boh, this is a sosio-economic problem. I am working with an IT firm and our business model doesn't reach Google's or Ubuntu's business model yet, we like to adopt it, but we CAN'T. It may takes 5-10 years to see it happens here. How do you sell FOSS when it's available for free?... Most people still don't understand how to generate money from FOSS. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi all, A few post earlier, the question of How do I eat, while I work on free SW? is a very valid question, especially more so in our so called 'developing world'. Someone has to pay... or rather the developer has some form of income. I think the issue is also socio-economic related. In developed countries, there is a social safety net of a welfare system, where altho meagre, someone can still live on, while they work on their free pet projects. But I think the more important socio-economic issue is in Europe, US Developed countries, they ALL STARTED YOUNGER! Take Google, Yahoo, Linus, they started while tey will still in college or just after. This shows a few things: 1. the skill levels of the overseas CompSc students are way higher! Most guys who opt for CompSc ALREADY KNOW programming before Uni. Here, they entr Uni to learn to program! And we have lecturers that barely know how to program... Then, we don't gain enough skills and knowledge until we are in late 20's then you get hit with the next problem.. 2. starting younger means you have less 'other' commitments - ie: no spouse, no mortgages and no kids. When you have these, its next to impossible to consider working on free SW, if you are not already paid, or have some other sort of income. Even with social welfare, once you have these commitments, its hard, economically to work on free SW. 3. If you work for a local company, no way they will open source their stuff! The culture hav'nt reached that far yet. And its only in a handful of multi-national companies that actively support FOSS, that you will get to work on a FOSS project - ie: Sun, IBM, etc... 4. Skill levels again... the technical demands of a FOSS project is pretty high, and there is a very steep learning curve. So if you wanna join a FOSS project you gotta be a reasonably good coder or documentor. If you are starting one, you better be a good PM and/or Architect. So I guess, the gleam in the eye, the the gung-ho enthusiasm will only carry you that far. It would probably work when I was in my 20's but now?? I doubt it. Still I do not diss the enthusiasm and ideals, but after 20 yrs pushing them, (uphill), I have become more jaded. I still uphold those ideals, otherwise I wouldnt be on this forum, and I will like to see progress... my POV is that we shld focus on skills development, really, really work on developing programming skills - and with modern languages its much more easier and fun. Think of the collective potential of the country if 5% of school leavers (I mean STPM not Uni) can build a website using the usual framework (Joomla, Rails, Django,...) there'll be 10,000's of developers who can later work/invent on other stuff.. So I rather see OSDC have a few programs: a. work with or consult with Higher Education to develop curriculum and skills. perhaps also have work experiance interchange, ie: those working in FOSS to lecture in Uni. b. MDEC, MOSTI whatever to provide a 'safety net' for programmers. Someone brought up an idea of a 50k/3mth grant that doesnt need a ton of paperwork to approve. ie: give 50k to a project and in 3 mths they better show results, else its axed. This I think would be a better program to promote technopreneurs. And OSDC can help do the evaluation and due deligence. c. OSDC itself kick-off a few FOSS projects, especially those that have scio-economic /cultural/nation-building benfits. I can rattle off a few at the top of my head: 1. A System for managing non-profit organizatiions (FreeNPO?) - ie: for thinks like the AIDS foundation, Orphanages, Charity org. 2. Various database projects, ie: like a Biodiversty Database, to capture the fast disapearing species of flora fuan in our forest... I'm sure FRIM (Forest Researh Inst.) and UPM would love this 3. Healthcare (my favourite), there is much to do here, because Med SW tends to be very expensive, and I strongly fell tht money spent on licences could be better spent on medicines and real things that save lives!)... from Systems to manage small rural hospitals, systems to report on medical statistics (like cases of Malaria, HINI, no. births/deaths, diabetes.. that cover in ALL hospitals even in
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
Saya suka foldees.com hasil dari pre-seed juga. Ada projek yang bagus, ada projek kadang-kadang kita tak tau apa yang akan naik e.g search engine - google ? (sedangkan ada banyak search engine sebelum dia), webmail - gmail (yahoo ,hotmail dah ada, kenapa nak ada satu lagi webmail ? Ahmad Amran Kapi Art In Software Sdn Bhd Suite 2.5 Inkubator K-Ekonomi 75450 Ayer Keroh Melaka. 06-2322464 / 013-6102545 http://www.aist.com.my On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: This project called Coconect http://www.coconect.com Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: That's the spirit! I like to see ALL people who able to work without fund from government, such as this http://madeonmac.com/2009/09/my-interview-on-msc-grant/ guys just won RM150K pre-seed fund for developing a website serving e-cards! Come on guys, wtf was that? our government spent almost RM14 millions for things like that? sendiri mau pikir la Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: Up until now most OSDC.my activities fund by volunteers own pocket money and most of them are freelance contribute their time to promote OSS. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
Betul tu encik Amran. Diorang dapat pre-seed sebab diorang dapat jawab soalan How do you get income from this project?...untuk jangka masa pendek, maksud saya pendapatan di depan mata hasil penjualan e-card, berapa ringgit sekeping, kalau seringgit sekeping 1juta dapat RM1juta. Bila cakap pasal fokus jangka masa panjang, tak ada orang yang yakin. seperti yang saya dah cakap, trend ni kena tunggu 5-10 tahun akan datang baru nampak kat Malaysia. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Ahmad Amran Kapi r0k...@gmail.com wrote: Saya suka foldees.com hasil dari pre-seed juga. Ada projek yang bagus, ada projek kadang-kadang kita tak tau apa yang akan naik e.g search engine - google ? (sedangkan ada banyak search engine sebelum dia), webmail - gmail (yahoo ,hotmail dah ada, kenapa nak ada satu lagi webmail ? Ahmad Amran Kapi Art In Software Sdn Bhd Suite 2.5 Inkubator K-Ekonomi 75450 Ayer Keroh Melaka. 06-2322464 / 013-6102545 http://www.aist.com.my On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: This project called Coconect http://www.coconect.com Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: That's the spirit! I like to see ALL people who able to work without fund from government, such as this http://madeonmac.com/2009/09/my-interview-on-msc-grant/ guys just won RM150K pre-seed fund for developing a website serving e-cards! Come on guys, wtf was that? our government spent almost RM14 millions for things like that? sendiri mau pikir la Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: Up until now most OSDC.my activities fund by volunteers own pocket money and most of them are freelance contribute their time to promote OSS. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: Mendapat Sokongan Dana dari MDec
boh, from your writing, the first thing that came to my mind is that we need people who are willing to solve real problems. genuinely helping other people to solve a problem. not about making a fast buck. ditesh and marcus, that is so true... hasan and amran, maybe we should propose to mdec to sponsor rm10k for any malaysian student / organisation whose proposed google summer of code project is accepted ? this could be a good start for getting a pool of developers that hopefully a few will rise to be world class ? this should keep a developer with family of 3 kids above the rm3k poverty line (urban kl) for 3 months. can we start with an initial allocation of rm500k for next year ? apparently in 2008, 2 malaysian students made it which makes our ranking lower than sri lanka. sri lanka is in top 10 countries in terms of number of accepted students. http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/04/two-top-10s-for-google-summer-of-code.html On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.comwrote: Betul tu encik Amran. Diorang dapat pre-seed sebab diorang dapat jawab soalan How do you get income from this project?...untuk jangka masa pendek, maksud saya pendapatan di depan mata hasil penjualan e-card, berapa ringgit sekeping, kalau seringgit sekeping 1juta dapat RM1juta. Bila cakap pasal fokus jangka masa panjang, tak ada orang yang yakin. seperti yang saya dah cakap, trend ni kena tunggu 5-10 tahun akan datang baru nampak kat Malaysia. Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Ahmad Amran Kapi r0k...@gmail.com wrote: Saya suka foldees.com hasil dari pre-seed juga. Ada projek yang bagus, ada projek kadang-kadang kita tak tau apa yang akan naik e.g search engine - google ? (sedangkan ada banyak search engine sebelum dia), webmail - gmail (yahoo ,hotmail dah ada, kenapa nak ada satu lagi webmail ? Ahmad Amran Kapi Art In Software Sdn Bhd Suite 2.5 Inkubator K-Ekonomi 75450 Ayer Keroh Melaka. 06-2322464 / 013-6102545 http://www.aist.com.my On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: This project called Coconect http://www.coconect.com Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Hasanuddin Abu Bakar bizkut...@gmail.com wrote: That's the spirit! I like to see ALL people who able to work without fund from government, such as this http://madeonmac.com/2009/09/my-interview-on-msc-grant/ guys just won RM150K pre-seed fund for developing a website serving e-cards! Come on guys, wtf was that? our government spent almost RM14 millions for things like that? sendiri mau pikir la Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com wrote: Up until now most OSDC.my activities fund by volunteers own pocket money and most of them are freelance contribute their time to promote OSS. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups OSDC.my Mailing List group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
