Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Haris, I would like to help in this area if I can. Ie: meetings, brainstorming sessions etc... but may not have time for the coordination/admin work. Perhaps that can be overcome by setting up some sort of a collaboration wen-site - a Wiki or equivalent. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote: > Our supporters education sectors are welcoming OSS community into U, > Politeknik, IKBN and any education places. They are decision makers > and wiling to push its further. > > Our weakness as OSS community is the people that can go on the ground, > meeting with them, coordinating and more admin works. We don't have > that team. What we have now are partial, part time admin. > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:44 AM, darXness darXness wrote: >> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel >> wrote: >>> Noted on that MQA issue. The committee will start small. At this >>> moment we already contact our contact in universities around Malaysia. >>> We are going to call for a dialog between U, Industry and community >>> mid of April. >>> >>> > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- #--- regds, Boh Heong, Yap -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Our supporters education sectors are welcoming OSS community into U, Politeknik, IKBN and any education places. They are decision makers and wiling to push its further. Our weakness as OSS community is the people that can go on the ground, meeting with them, coordinating and more admin works. We don't have that team. What we have now are partial, part time admin. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:44 AM, darXness darXness wrote: > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel > wrote: >> Noted on that MQA issue. The committee will start small. At this >> moment we already contact our contact in universities around Malaysia. >> We are going to call for a dialog between U, Industry and community >> mid of April. >> >> -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote: > Noted on that MQA issue. The committee will start small. At this > moment we already contact our contact in universities around Malaysia. > We are going to call for a dialog between U, Industry and community > mid of April. > > +1 btw,im from skill side,like IKBN,ILP,n so forth.we are not effected by MQA since we are depend on NOSS,National Occupational Skill Standards.n i heard that most U's is trying to implement that into their course.thats y the syllabus between Academic n Skill area is quite different,because we are using diff skill standard. -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Noted on that MQA issue. The committee will start small. At this moment we already contact our contact in universities around Malaysia. We are going to call for a dialog between U, Industry and community mid of April. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Boh Yap wrote: > hi all, > > here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done > in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and > Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, > Haris(OSDC) was trying to form a committee to try and introduce FOSS into Education. I would think the work should start with the MQA. Also who are the people that make such major decisions that affect the future of our nation, are they qualified? Do they have industry experiance? Are they free of vested interested? Are there HW or SW vendors among them? -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
While it is true that programming can be highly paid. in most organization that i know of, programmer is a deadend position, you pretty much stuck. More often than not the only way to get promoted is to go to management. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 4:31 PM, red1 wrote: > On 3/3/11 8:54 AM, Boh Yap wrote: > >> hi all, >> >> here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done >> in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and >> Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, >> >> Have a read and pls comment... >> >> Critique of MQA Computing Program Document >> > Hm.. Boh, you also losing your kungfu touch, above you commend both sides, > not making known your own stand. Playing it safe by not playing to the > gallery at all :) > > Since you ask me to comment in your MQA analysis, so here goes. > 1. Why analysed something that is more than 30 years old? The topics > sounded familiar and quite inferior to what i learnt in IDPM, London (via > Goon's Institute KL) in 1981! There i learnt Programming, Data Structures, > Flowcharting, Intermediate Accounts, Communications and Systems Analysis all > in 2 years. I got employed at end of 1st year by Dataprep in 1982. > > 2. About teaching ERP in colleges, if they just teach Accounting well, > should be enough. Don't make the kids start cursing you in their facebooks. > > 3. About programming as a highly paid skill, as compared to Systems A & > Design, the later should be true as A&D precedes form, but the concept those > days is wrong today. What, if any design kids should know today is > encapsulated in OO. That is the present, almost going past. Certainly not > future. > > Finally thanks Boh for your thesis, as you finally nailed this into the > coffin. Malaysia's future is dead. It's knowhow menu is Vasco Da Gama's. > > Wonder if MDec employs such grads and in what numbers. Rafe, any stats? > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
On 3/3/11 8:54 AM, Boh Yap wrote: hi all, here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, Have a read and pls comment... Critique of MQA Computing Program Document Hm.. Boh, you also losing your kungfu touch, above you commend both sides, not making known your own stand. Playing it safe by not playing to the gallery at all :) Since you ask me to comment in your MQA analysis, so here goes. 1. Why analysed something that is more than 30 years old? The topics sounded familiar and quite inferior to what i learnt in IDPM, London (via Goon's Institute KL) in 1981! There i learnt Programming, Data Structures, Flowcharting, Intermediate Accounts, Communications and Systems Analysis all in 2 years. I got employed at end of 1st year by Dataprep in 1982. 2. About teaching ERP in colleges, if they just teach Accounting well, should be enough. Don't make the kids start cursing you in their facebooks. 3. About programming as a highly paid skill, as compared to Systems A & Design, the later should be true as A&D precedes form, but the concept those days is wrong today. What, if any design kids should know today is encapsulated in OO. That is the present, almost going past. Certainly not future. Finally thanks Boh for your thesis, as you finally nailed this into the coffin. Malaysia's future is dead. It's knowhow menu is Vasco Da Gama's. Wonder if MDec employs such grads and in what numbers. Rafe, any stats? -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Anak sapa laaa nie sopan sungguh, seb baik aku tadak adik pompuan :) 2011/3/3 Muhd Syazwan Md Khusaini > I don't want to condemn universities student, tapi sebahagian dari mereka > tak nak belajar benda yang lain selain yang diajar dalam kuliah atau dari > buku. mesti nak ikut buku bulat-bulat. bila dah tunjuk cara paling mudah, > dia pun cakap "o". > > based my experience, one of my friend, a degree (not diploma) from local > university got new syllabus for one of subject. but when I'm try to tengok > both the previous and new syllabus, nampak sangat pengajaran makin mudah. > > eg: before this, IT student diajar cara nak configure network gunakan dan > mesti lulus menggunakan command line, tapi new syllabus just right > click>properties.. > > linux? makin sikit perlu belajar dibandingkan dulu. > > mohon maaf kalau saya ada buat orang disini kecil hati atau terasa, tapi > itulah realiti. maaf sekali lagi. > > 2011/3/3 sweemeng ng > > sekarang pun sama, dan seperti dulu, tak banyak yang pilih IT sebagai >> pilihan pertaman >> >> 2011/3/3 Hafiz Bhari >> >> Ingat tak masa mula-mula IT bertapak kat sini. Course IT lah yang paling >>> mudah untuk masuk U. IT mungkin diletakkan sebagai pilihan kedua, ketiga, >>> keempat atau tercorot untuk masuk U. Sekarang pun mungkin lagi. >>> >>> Dan hasil pengalaman mengajar student U, sedikit dari mereka yang >>> betul-betul minat kat IT. Yang lain semua kerana terpaksa. Bagi dorang yang >>> penting masuk U lulus exam dan berharap kerja datang bergolek depan mereka. >>> >>> 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar >>> On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. > Project management konon > > //ha...@qedx.com > teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau tak silap jawapannya Object() ) masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Hafiz >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >>> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >>> >>> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >>> >>> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >>> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >>> >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >> >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >> > > > > -- > Muhd Syazwan @ jipang_menjerit > > http://about.me/syazwan/bio > > http://blog.ubuntuseekers.com > http://blog.syazwan.co.cc > > jipangmenje...@gmail.com > jipang_menje...@ubuntuseekers.com > > One Online Radio :: Radio yang Suka Bercakap > http://radio.syazwan.co.cc > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Lecturer pun problem jugak sebenarnya. Kalau tak ikut buku bulat-bulat karang dia tak nak :( Nak buat macam mana tu? //ha...@qedx.com 2011/3/3 Muhd Syazwan Md Khusaini : > I don't want to condemn universities student, tapi sebahagian dari mereka > tak nak belajar benda yang lain selain yang diajar dalam kuliah atau dari > buku. mesti nak ikut buku bulat-bulat. bila dah tunjuk cara paling mudah, > dia pun cakap "o". > based my experience, one of my friend, a degree (not diploma) from local > university got new syllabus for one of subject. but when I'm try to tengok > both the previous and new syllabus, nampak sangat pengajaran makin mudah. > eg: before this, IT student diajar cara nak configure network gunakan dan > mesti lulus menggunakan command line, tapi new syllabus just right > click>properties.. > linux? makin sikit perlu belajar dibandingkan dulu. > mohon maaf kalau saya ada buat orang disini kecil hati atau terasa, tapi > itulah realiti. maaf sekali lagi. > > 2011/3/3 sweemeng ng >> >> sekarang pun sama, dan seperti dulu, tak banyak yang pilih IT sebagai >> pilihan pertaman >> >> 2011/3/3 Hafiz Bhari >>> >>> Ingat tak masa mula-mula IT bertapak kat sini. Course IT lah yang paling >>> mudah untuk masuk U. IT mungkin diletakkan sebagai pilihan kedua, ketiga, >>> keempat atau tercorot untuk masuk U. Sekarang pun mungkin lagi. >>> >>> Dan hasil pengalaman mengajar student U, sedikit dari mereka yang >>> betul-betul minat kat IT. Yang lain semua kerana terpaksa. Bagi dorang yang >>> penting masuk U lulus exam dan berharap kerja datang bergolek depan mereka. >>> >>> 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: > > +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. > Project management konon > > //ha...@qedx.com teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau tak silap jawapannya Object() ) masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Hafiz >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >>> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >>> >>> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >>> >>> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >>> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >> >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > > > > -- > Muhd Syazwan @ jipang_menjerit > > http://about.me/syazwan/bio > > http://blog.ubuntuseekers.com > http://blog.syazwan.co.cc > > jipangmenje...@gmail.com > jipang_menje...@ubuntuseekers.com > One Online Radio :: Radio yang Suka Bercakap > http://radio.syazwan.co.cc > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
I don't want to condemn universities student, tapi sebahagian dari mereka tak nak belajar benda yang lain selain yang diajar dalam kuliah atau dari buku. mesti nak ikut buku bulat-bulat. bila dah tunjuk cara paling mudah, dia pun cakap "o". based my experience, one of my friend, a degree (not diploma) from local university got new syllabus for one of subject. but when I'm try to tengok both the previous and new syllabus, nampak sangat pengajaran makin mudah. eg: before this, IT student diajar cara nak configure network gunakan dan mesti lulus menggunakan command line, tapi new syllabus just right click>properties.. linux? makin sikit perlu belajar dibandingkan dulu. mohon maaf kalau saya ada buat orang disini kecil hati atau terasa, tapi itulah realiti. maaf sekali lagi. 2011/3/3 sweemeng ng > sekarang pun sama, dan seperti dulu, tak banyak yang pilih IT sebagai > pilihan pertaman > > 2011/3/3 Hafiz Bhari > > Ingat tak masa mula-mula IT bertapak kat sini. Course IT lah yang paling >> mudah untuk masuk U. IT mungkin diletakkan sebagai pilihan kedua, ketiga, >> keempat atau tercorot untuk masuk U. Sekarang pun mungkin lagi. >> >> Dan hasil pengalaman mengajar student U, sedikit dari mereka yang >> betul-betul minat kat IT. Yang lain semua kerana terpaksa. Bagi dorang yang >> penting masuk U lulus exam dan berharap kerja datang bergolek depan mereka. >> >> 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar >> >>> On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: >>> >>> +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. Project management konon //ha...@qedx.com >>> teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada >>> satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: >>> >>> "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau >>> tak silap jawapannya Object() ) >>> >>> masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) >>> baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function >>> merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk >>> OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. >>> >>> student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >>> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >>> >>> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >>> >>> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >>> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Hafiz >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >> >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >> > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- Muhd Syazwan @ jipang_menjerit http://about.me/syazwan/bio http://blog.ubuntuseekers.com http://blog.syazwan.co.cc jipangmenje...@gmail.com jipang_menje...@ubuntuseekers.com One Online Radio :: Radio yang Suka Bercakap http://radio.syazwan.co.cc -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
sekarang pun sama, dan seperti dulu, tak banyak yang pilih IT sebagai pilihan pertaman 2011/3/3 Hafiz Bhari > Ingat tak masa mula-mula IT bertapak kat sini. Course IT lah yang paling > mudah untuk masuk U. IT mungkin diletakkan sebagai pilihan kedua, ketiga, > keempat atau tercorot untuk masuk U. Sekarang pun mungkin lagi. > > Dan hasil pengalaman mengajar student U, sedikit dari mereka yang > betul-betul minat kat IT. Yang lain semua kerana terpaksa. Bagi dorang yang > penting masuk U lulus exam dan berharap kerja datang bergolek depan mereka. > > 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar > >> On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: >> >> +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. >>> Project management konon >>> >>> //ha...@qedx.com >>> >> teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada >> satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: >> >> "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau >> tak silap jawapannya Object() ) >> >> masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) >> baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function >> merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk >> OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. >> >> student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >> >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert >> > > > > -- > Regards, > Hafiz > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Ingat tak masa mula-mula IT bertapak kat sini. Course IT lah yang paling mudah untuk masuk U. IT mungkin diletakkan sebagai pilihan kedua, ketiga, keempat atau tercorot untuk masuk U. Sekarang pun mungkin lagi. Dan hasil pengalaman mengajar student U, sedikit dari mereka yang betul-betul minat kat IT. Yang lain semua kerana terpaksa. Bagi dorang yang penting masuk U lulus exam dan berharap kerja datang bergolek depan mereka. 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar > On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: > >> +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. >> Project management konon >> >> //ha...@qedx.com >> > teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada > satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: > > "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau > tak silap jawapannya Object() ) > > masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) > baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function > merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk > OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. > > student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- Regards, Hafiz -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
On 03/03/2011 12:05 PM, Haris bin Ali wrote: +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. Project management konon //ha...@qedx.com teringat bro Azrul (beliau keje dgn Sun kot masa tu) tanya kat aku pada satu event Sun kt incubator MSC di Cyberjaya: "apa object paling atas sekali dalam java" (lebih kurang dalam BI, kalau tak silap jawapannya Object() ) masa tu aku baru lepas extend Asas Programming (student malas kaki games) baru je amik OOP, yang lain dah masuk OOP2. Baru je belajar buat function merepek. Tergamam jugak la. Bedal je tapi dah lupa jawab apa. Bila masuk OOP2 baru la tau jawapan tu. Malas baca buku teks! Hehehe. student sc. comp. jangan malas-malas macam aku ;) -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Good one will learn on their own anyway. But boh really hit it spot on. unfortunately during my time, which is really not that long ago, one have to really learn on their own to really know stuff. But hey, this is Malaysia, student are taught to study stuff relevant to exam, so good luck with finding more of us down there. And they try to train to fit the industry, but really I got my doubt on whether they know about it. So I got a feeling that if I go back to school, many stuff we talk about that we take for granted is new them. Which I really hope to be wrong. Which is why many of my classmate ends up as 1) Support 2) Sysadmin. Not that many in software development, and of those even fewer involve in Open Source(maybe except PHP) or anything non-Microsoft/PC/Web. Many will opt out for programming related job also for other reason, that is actually another story all together. and quite a number quit IT, some is aptitude some is about perceived future in IT. 2011/3/3 Haris bin Ali > +1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. > Project management konon > > //ha...@qedx.com > > > > 2011/3/3 Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin : > > O tp nie utk private college... even utk subjek photography pun > dorang > > mintak kena ada bilik gelap... > > even skang nie dah pakai SLR kamera... > > > > 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar > >> > >> On 03/03/2011 10:00 AM, Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin wrote: > >>> > >>> Salam semua, > >>> > >>> Nk masukan subjek JAVA Programing pun panel MQA ckp, itu terlalu tinggi > >>> utk student diploma, so camane erkk.. > >> > >> Rasanya sejak 2005 dah ada ajar java kat uni awam sebab saya kena ambil > >> subjek OOP untuk Dip. Sains Komputer semasa di UiTM dulu. Tapi lecturer > tu > >> main dan je la...pasal baru belajar untuk mengajar :D > >> > >> -- > >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > >> > >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > >> > >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
+1000 Jangan harap la nak diajar pasal version control kat universiti. Project management konon //ha...@qedx.com 2011/3/3 Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin : > O tp nie utk private college... even utk subjek photography pun dorang > mintak kena ada bilik gelap... > even skang nie dah pakai SLR kamera... > > 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar >> >> On 03/03/2011 10:00 AM, Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin wrote: >>> >>> Salam semua, >>> >>> Nk masukan subjek JAVA Programing pun panel MQA ckp, itu terlalu tinggi >>> utk student diploma, so camane erkk.. >> >> Rasanya sejak 2005 dah ada ajar java kat uni awam sebab saya kena ambil >> subjek OOP untuk Dip. Sains Komputer semasa di UiTM dulu. Tapi lecturer tu >> main dan je la...pasal baru belajar untuk mengajar :D >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information >> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 >> >> MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification >> http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
O tp nie utk private college... even utk subjek photography pun dorang mintak kena ada bilik gelap... even skang nie dah pakai SLR kamera... 2011/3/3 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar > On 03/03/2011 10:00 AM, Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin wrote: > >> Salam semua, >> >> Nk masukan subjek JAVA Programing pun panel MQA ckp, itu terlalu tinggi >> utk student diploma, so camane erkk.. >> > Rasanya sejak 2005 dah ada ajar java kat uni awam sebab saya kena ambil > subjek OOP untuk Dip. Sains Komputer semasa di UiTM dulu. Tapi lecturer tu > main dan je la...pasal baru belajar untuk mengajar :D > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
On 03/03/2011 10:00 AM, Abdul Aziz Mydin Salimuddin wrote: Salam semua, Nk masukan subjek JAVA Programing pun panel MQA ckp, itu terlalu tinggi utk student diploma, so camane erkk.. Rasanya sejak 2005 dah ada ajar java kat uni awam sebab saya kena ambil subjek OOP untuk Dip. Sains Komputer semasa di UiTM dulu. Tapi lecturer tu main dan je la...pasal baru belajar untuk mengajar :D -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
Salam semua, Nk masukan subjek JAVA Programing pun panel MQA ckp, itu terlalu tinggi utk student diploma, so camane erkk.. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Mohd Rizal Mohd Shahari wrote: > I think we should invite MQA people or the guy who responsible > drafting the document to be Open Education Council (OEC) member :) > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Tajul Azhar bin Mohd Tajul Ariffin > wrote: > > I think MQA is not under Ministry of Education. > > It is corporate agency that handles all qualification of Universities. In > the government agency hieracry, MQA sit under Ministry of Higher Education > (Kementerian Pengajian Tinggi). > > There is a few cases whereby certain courses not been certified not > because of the syllabus, but because of management of universities not > applying for certification from MQA. > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Boh Yap > > Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:54:40 > > To: ; > > Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - > long rant > > > > hi all, > > > > here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done > > in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and > > Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, > > > > Have a read and pls comment... > > > > Critique of MQA Computing Program Document > > - > > > > Ah, I make a bold claim, I finally may have figured out a possible > > reason why our august Universities produce thousands of graduates that > > are 'unemployable' as far as IT is concerned. The blame must solely > > rest on the shoulders of the MQA (Malaysia Qualifications Agency) > > under the Min. of Edu. Its also known as LAN (Lembaga Accredition > > Negara) > > > > http://www.mqa.gov.my/ > > > > This 'organ' sets the 'standards'(sic) for all HEPs(Higher Education > > Providers) in the country, both local and foreign. Yes, even if MIT or > > Harvard were to set up here, their 'standards' will be governed by > > them! And it covers not only IT, but also Bitotechnology, Medicine and > > Health Sc. etc > > > > I downlaoded a PDF on the subject area of Computing: > >http://www.mqa.gov.my/garispanduan/ENGLISH%20Computing_6.1.10_doc.pdf > > > > This does not cover all parts of IT, Netwk Engin.(SysAdmin) etc.. is > > handled by other docs. > > (so this rant may not apply to the Netwk Engineers, SysAdmins etc..) > > > > But it covers all aspects of higher edu for 'Computing': > > > >- the type of courses and professionals it develops, presumably > > for our HR needs... > > > >- the qualifiactions required to enter and awarded upon completion, > > > >- the 'programme objectives' what the course try to achive, the > > type fo skills > > grads. will have > > > >- what the syllabus should cover > > > >- the accredition, way marks/grading are accorded > > > >- Learning Outcomes, what skills/knowledge the grads. will be > > equipped with (!?) > > > > note: > >Compared to a similar document for BioTech and Engineering, the > curriculum > >seeems to be far less detailed when compared to IT. A lot of freedom > seems > >to be given to instituitions to determine their own. Why then should > our > >industry be so closely scrutinised? > > > > As a quick summary, here are my interpretations, I may be wrong, and > > if so soemone please prove me wrong! > > > > It seems 'programming skills' are not required for BSc grads, but are > > required for Diploma grads WTF, !? (Learning Outcomes, Diploma, pg > > 14,i). It seems 'programming' is considered a lowly skill suitable for > > Diploma holders, whereas BSc grads are suppose to be System Analysts > > and and Proj. Managers!? And BSc grads are suppose to have > > 'entrepeneurial' skills (pg15 Generic Learning Outcomes, vi) - so they > > can be the next Facebook I suppose... > > > > If this is true, it sets a dangerous and unreal expectations for the > > students! No wonder most Comp. Sc. grads. don't want to do programming > > or can't code! And they want to be SAs and PMs? No Way! Without > > knowing or having
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
I think we should invite MQA people or the guy who responsible drafting the document to be Open Education Council (OEC) member :) On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Tajul Azhar bin Mohd Tajul Ariffin wrote: > I think MQA is not under Ministry of Education. > It is corporate agency that handles all qualification of Universities. In the > government agency hieracry, MQA sit under Ministry of Higher Education > (Kementerian Pengajian Tinggi). > There is a few cases whereby certain courses not been certified not because > of the syllabus, but because of management of universities not applying for > certification from MQA. > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile. > > -Original Message- > From: Boh Yap > Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:54:40 > To: ; > Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > Subject: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long > rant > > hi all, > > here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done > in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and > Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, > > Have a read and pls comment... > > Critique of MQA Computing Program Document > - > > Ah, I make a bold claim, I finally may have figured out a possible > reason why our august Universities produce thousands of graduates that > are 'unemployable' as far as IT is concerned. The blame must solely > rest on the shoulders of the MQA (Malaysia Qualifications Agency) > under the Min. of Edu. Its also known as LAN (Lembaga Accredition > Negara) > > http://www.mqa.gov.my/ > > This 'organ' sets the 'standards'(sic) for all HEPs(Higher Education > Providers) in the country, both local and foreign. Yes, even if MIT or > Harvard were to set up here, their 'standards' will be governed by > them! And it covers not only IT, but also Bitotechnology, Medicine and > Health Sc. etc > > I downlaoded a PDF on the subject area of Computing: > http://www.mqa.gov.my/garispanduan/ENGLISH%20Computing_6.1.10_doc.pdf > > This does not cover all parts of IT, Netwk Engin.(SysAdmin) etc.. is > handled by other docs. > (so this rant may not apply to the Netwk Engineers, SysAdmins etc..) > > But it covers all aspects of higher edu for 'Computing': > > - the type of courses and professionals it develops, presumably > for our HR needs... > > - the qualifiactions required to enter and awarded upon completion, > > - the 'programme objectives' what the course try to achive, the > type fo skills > grads. will have > > - what the syllabus should cover > > - the accredition, way marks/grading are accorded > > - Learning Outcomes, what skills/knowledge the grads. will be > equipped with (!?) > > note: > Compared to a similar document for BioTech and Engineering, the curriculum > seeems to be far less detailed when compared to IT. A lot of freedom seems > to be given to instituitions to determine their own. Why then should our > industry be so closely scrutinised? > > As a quick summary, here are my interpretations, I may be wrong, and > if so soemone please prove me wrong! > > It seems 'programming skills' are not required for BSc grads, but are > required for Diploma grads WTF, !? (Learning Outcomes, Diploma, pg > 14,i). It seems 'programming' is considered a lowly skill suitable for > Diploma holders, whereas BSc grads are suppose to be System Analysts > and and Proj. Managers!? And BSc grads are suppose to have > 'entrepeneurial' skills (pg15 Generic Learning Outcomes, vi) - so they > can be the next Facebook I suppose... > > If this is true, it sets a dangerous and unreal expectations for the > students! No wonder most Comp. Sc. grads. don't want to do programming > or can't code! And they want to be SAs and PMs? No Way! Without > knowing or having done extensive programming, they won't have the > depth of knowledge to manage progrmmers, let alone win their respect. > They won't be able to evaluate the complexity and timeline required > without understanding the tools or its methodology. Worst still, they > will end up making the technical decisions, instead of the programmers > that are actually doing the work! (Does a construction site-supervisor > tell his carpenter what tools he should use? NO!) It just means they > make 'dumb' managers which the coders can fool! > > Also they (grads) probably think they don't need to do programming, > and t
Re: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
I think MQA is not under Ministry of Education. It is corporate agency that handles all qualification of Universities. In the government agency hieracry, MQA sit under Ministry of Higher Education (Kementerian Pengajian Tinggi). There is a few cases whereby certain courses not been certified not because of the syllabus, but because of management of universities not applying for certification from MQA. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile. -Original Message- From: Boh Yap Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:54:40 To: ; Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Subject: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant hi all, here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, Have a read and pls comment... Critique of MQA Computing Program Document - Ah, I make a bold claim, I finally may have figured out a possible reason why our august Universities produce thousands of graduates that are 'unemployable' as far as IT is concerned. The blame must solely rest on the shoulders of the MQA (Malaysia Qualifications Agency) under the Min. of Edu. Its also known as LAN (Lembaga Accredition Negara) http://www.mqa.gov.my/ This 'organ' sets the 'standards'(sic) for all HEPs(Higher Education Providers) in the country, both local and foreign. Yes, even if MIT or Harvard were to set up here, their 'standards' will be governed by them! And it covers not only IT, but also Bitotechnology, Medicine and Health Sc. etc I downlaoded a PDF on the subject area of Computing: http://www.mqa.gov.my/garispanduan/ENGLISH%20Computing_6.1.10_doc.pdf This does not cover all parts of IT, Netwk Engin.(SysAdmin) etc.. is handled by other docs. (so this rant may not apply to the Netwk Engineers, SysAdmins etc..) But it covers all aspects of higher edu for 'Computing': - the type of courses and professionals it develops, presumably for our HR needs... - the qualifiactions required to enter and awarded upon completion, - the 'programme objectives' what the course try to achive, the type fo skills grads. will have - what the syllabus should cover - the accredition, way marks/grading are accorded - Learning Outcomes, what skills/knowledge the grads. will be equipped with (!?) note: Compared to a similar document for BioTech and Engineering, the curriculum seeems to be far less detailed when compared to IT. A lot of freedom seems to be given to instituitions to determine their own. Why then should our industry be so closely scrutinised? As a quick summary, here are my interpretations, I may be wrong, and if so soemone please prove me wrong! It seems 'programming skills' are not required for BSc grads, but are required for Diploma grads WTF, !? (Learning Outcomes, Diploma, pg 14,i). It seems 'programming' is considered a lowly skill suitable for Diploma holders, whereas BSc grads are suppose to be System Analysts and and Proj. Managers!? And BSc grads are suppose to have 'entrepeneurial' skills (pg15 Generic Learning Outcomes, vi) - so they can be the next Facebook I suppose... If this is true, it sets a dangerous and unreal expectations for the students! No wonder most Comp. Sc. grads. don't want to do programming or can't code! And they want to be SAs and PMs? No Way! Without knowing or having done extensive programming, they won't have the depth of knowledge to manage progrmmers, let alone win their respect. They won't be able to evaluate the complexity and timeline required without understanding the tools or its methodology. Worst still, they will end up making the technical decisions, instead of the programmers that are actually doing the work! (Does a construction site-supervisor tell his carpenter what tools he should use? NO!) It just means they make 'dumb' managers which the coders can fool! Also they (grads) probably think they don't need to do programming, and they can straightaway be PMs and SAs but the market and employers certainly don't agree! Holy Dilbert! The fact is that our Unis are producing PHBs (Pointy Haired Bosses) the clueless yet arrogant boss of Dilbert in the comic strip! Haris(OSDC) was trying to form a committee to try and introduce FOSS into Education. I would think the work should start with the MQA. Also who are the people that make such major decisions that affect the future of our nation, are they qualified? Do they have industry experiance? Are they free of vested interested? Are there HW or SW vendors among them? I think most of you who are serious about parctising IT and developing the
[osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long rant
hi all, here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, Have a read and pls comment... Critique of MQA Computing Program Document - Ah, I make a bold claim, I finally may have figured out a possible reason why our august Universities produce thousands of graduates that are 'unemployable' as far as IT is concerned. The blame must solely rest on the shoulders of the MQA (Malaysia Qualifications Agency) under the Min. of Edu. Its also known as LAN (Lembaga Accredition Negara) http://www.mqa.gov.my/ This 'organ' sets the 'standards'(sic) for all HEPs(Higher Education Providers) in the country, both local and foreign. Yes, even if MIT or Harvard were to set up here, their 'standards' will be governed by them! And it covers not only IT, but also Bitotechnology, Medicine and Health Sc. etc I downlaoded a PDF on the subject area of Computing: http://www.mqa.gov.my/garispanduan/ENGLISH%20Computing_6.1.10_doc.pdf This does not cover all parts of IT, Netwk Engin.(SysAdmin) etc.. is handled by other docs. (so this rant may not apply to the Netwk Engineers, SysAdmins etc..) But it covers all aspects of higher edu for 'Computing': - the type of courses and professionals it develops, presumably for our HR needs... - the qualifiactions required to enter and awarded upon completion, - the 'programme objectives' what the course try to achive, the type fo skills grads. will have - what the syllabus should cover - the accredition, way marks/grading are accorded - Learning Outcomes, what skills/knowledge the grads. will be equipped with (!?) note: Compared to a similar document for BioTech and Engineering, the curriculum seeems to be far less detailed when compared to IT. A lot of freedom seems to be given to instituitions to determine their own. Why then should our industry be so closely scrutinised? As a quick summary, here are my interpretations, I may be wrong, and if so soemone please prove me wrong! It seems 'programming skills' are not required for BSc grads, but are required for Diploma grads WTF, !? (Learning Outcomes, Diploma, pg 14,i). It seems 'programming' is considered a lowly skill suitable for Diploma holders, whereas BSc grads are suppose to be System Analysts and and Proj. Managers!? And BSc grads are suppose to have 'entrepeneurial' skills (pg15 Generic Learning Outcomes, vi) - so they can be the next Facebook I suppose... If this is true, it sets a dangerous and unreal expectations for the students! No wonder most Comp. Sc. grads. don't want to do programming or can't code! And they want to be SAs and PMs? No Way! Without knowing or having done extensive programming, they won't have the depth of knowledge to manage progrmmers, let alone win their respect. They won't be able to evaluate the complexity and timeline required without understanding the tools or its methodology. Worst still, they will end up making the technical decisions, instead of the programmers that are actually doing the work! (Does a construction site-supervisor tell his carpenter what tools he should use? NO!) It just means they make 'dumb' managers which the coders can fool! Also they (grads) probably think they don't need to do programming, and they can straightaway be PMs and SAs but the market and employers certainly don't agree! Holy Dilbert! The fact is that our Unis are producing PHBs (Pointy Haired Bosses) the clueless yet arrogant boss of Dilbert in the comic strip! Haris(OSDC) was trying to form a committee to try and introduce FOSS into Education. I would think the work should start with the MQA. Also who are the people that make such major decisions that affect the future of our nation, are they qualified? Do they have industry experiance? Are they free of vested interested? Are there HW or SW vendors among them? I think most of you who are serious about parctising IT and developing the SW industry in Malaysia will agree with me that some of these decisions are seriously flawed. I certainly hope that such errors in judgement are due to the fact that they have been misinformed, and HOPEFULLY they will allow us, members of the FOSS community to provide an alternative POV. Below are the rest of my rant based on sections of the document, you may have to read it to get the full details, I have included some quotes taken from the docuemnt, they are like this "", the rest is my inputs. Also those sections 'notes:' I would welcome all comments, especially from the authority concerned, lets have a healthy discussion on this. And no F words ;-) Intro: -- No date as to when the docuemnt was drafted. The file name carries a probable date, but the document itself does not have a date, change-history or list of authors, strang
