[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
May you travel in Allah's peace, Saudara Rafe to the land down under; where women glow and men plunder. One more question on your quest: 1. What is the business case for having such an objective? Come to think of it there is no business case if you are considered world class, at least not from the forms i find be them Technopreneur to MOSTI grants forms. They always asked and fail you for the flimsiest of cases: a. No foreign transfer of know-how b. No market take-up proof. c. No precedent d. Bla-bla All very kiasu statements i am afraid. Or we can at least say the future is undefinable (Citation: Dr. Lester Thurow, 1999) My business case is just one line similar to David Axmark of MySQL: "We just love it and think it will work." Heading to Bangkok now. Cya when we both back in December. rafe azsnal wrote: > > Ladies, > > How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the > standard and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look > at?? > > rafe > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
E1, thank you for your 'information' but sadly, all your statements here are entirely incorrect so i have to offer my comments them below. :) Mohd Hidzuan wrote: > Adempiere is world-class project.. agreed. wrong.. ADempiere is not world class, it is a top world SF project. To be world class is when the world opinion acknowledges you, i.e Forbes magazine. :) > > the saddest thing, it can't deploy here because Adempiere team don't > have any POC that company in Malaysia can use that Adempiere. Citation needed > > Can Pak Salleh Pisang Panas use it.. or PERODUA deploy it in their > factory? wana bet? You should request for citations from industry first. Already stated if u just google the right words or just speak to the adempiere chatroom in IRC freenode such as Vpj-Cd, CarlosRuiz, Trifon, etc for exact sources of proof. > > Result: > Adempiere is not ready for Malaysian because we don't have enough > developers, consultant and technical specialist on ERP. Citation needed. > > Conclusion: > So, bro red1.. we have to wait another 10 years probably.. then might > be Adempiere is ready for Malaysian :-D. You want to wait and accept E1? Or you want to fight and achieve A1? It is yours to decide. I have decided. ADempiere is now like this www.adempiere.com .. just refer to citations there. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Adempiere is world-class project.. agreed. the saddest thing, it can't deploy here because Adempiere team don't have any POC that company in Malaysia can use that Adempiere. Can Pak Salleh Pisang Panas use it.. or PERODUA deploy it in their factory? Result: Adempiere is not ready for Malaysian because we don't have enough developers, consultant and technical specialist on ERP. Conclusion: So, bro red1.. we have to wait another 10 years probably.. then might be Adempiere is ready for Malaysian :-D. ... To follow the path, look to the master, follow the master, walk with the master, see through the master, become the master. Selasih Net Enterprise "we never sleep, we just park our head" Sent from Petaling Jaya, Malaysia On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:09 AM, red1 wrote: > > So now... you want blood? Are you sure? Can you repeat that? You have > no idea what blood i can give you. > > ADempiere codebase is 3.1 million lines. Mostly are copyright Mat > Sallehs and now growing number of Heng Sin, our Malaysian worldclass > developer. But there are still much more lines. > > Each Java class is about 100 lines. So let's say we justify a business, > oops, i mean world bashing case of converting those foreign copyrighted > ones to Malaysians such as Azrul, we can start allotting in batches to > get this "Made In Malaysia" copyright notice. > > First batch - 100 java classes of 100 lines = 10,000 lines X RM5 = > RM50,000 of better quality code such as using Hibernate ORM and Rules > Engine. > > If want a slow paper then X 10 batches again for 1,000 java classes of > "Made in Malaysia" = RM500,000. > > Raja can forward his battleship company for the first war of branding > our Malaysian name further. > > Are you really sure? > > rafe azsnal wrote: > > btw red1... if i have a choice i would rather showcase to the world > > the capability of the local rather than the international. osconf or > > not i want something that we truly own and proud off. i want that mat > > saleh cry with blood. :) > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
So now... you want blood? Are you sure? Can you repeat that? You have no idea what blood i can give you. ADempiere codebase is 3.1 million lines. Mostly are copyright Mat Sallehs and now growing number of Heng Sin, our Malaysian worldclass developer. But there are still much more lines. Each Java class is about 100 lines. So let's say we justify a business, oops, i mean world bashing case of converting those foreign copyrighted ones to Malaysians such as Azrul, we can start allotting in batches to get this "Made In Malaysia" copyright notice. First batch - 100 java classes of 100 lines = 10,000 lines X RM5 = RM50,000 of better quality code such as using Hibernate ORM and Rules Engine. If want a slow paper then X 10 batches again for 1,000 java classes of "Made in Malaysia" = RM500,000. Raja can forward his battleship company for the first war of branding our Malaysian name further. Are you really sure? rafe azsnal wrote: > btw red1... if i have a choice i would rather showcase to the world > the capability of the local rather than the international. osconf or > not i want something that we truly own and proud off. i want that mat > saleh cry with blood. :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
btw red1... if i have a choice i would rather showcase to the world the capability of the local rather than the international. osconf or not i want something that we truly own and proud off. i want that mat saleh cry with blood. :) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:17 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: > sorry.. let me do that part "business case"... > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:16 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: >> let do that part... u worried about the project. deal?? feed me with >> info. i can have it done on the plane... >> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:14 PM, red1 wrote: >>> >>> rafe azsnal wrote: ok let build the business case. community lead project. >>> damn.. does that 'business' word makes me bitch, i mean pitch more: >>> >>> The business case is that if you have the whole attention on Malaysia on >>> that day via YouTube, and Forbes magazine wires carrying big words such >>> as "Malaysia leads the way with killer ERP addons to ADempiere, an >>> audacious Malaysian led open source project that is making waves in >>> cyberspace.", the world will pay attention and get their imagination run >>> wild with ideas of commercialising with services built around such >>> technology stack. British Telecoms might want it. >>> >>> Contribute it now, or else someone somewhere else in India might read >>> this and beat us to it. :) >>> >>> red1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
sorry.. let me do that part "business case"... On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:16 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: > let do that part... u worried about the project. deal?? feed me with > info. i can have it done on the plane... > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:14 PM, red1 wrote: >> >> rafe azsnal wrote: >>> ok let build the business case. community lead project. >>> >> damn.. does that 'business' word makes me bitch, i mean pitch more: >> >> The business case is that if you have the whole attention on Malaysia on >> that day via YouTube, and Forbes magazine wires carrying big words such >> as "Malaysia leads the way with killer ERP addons to ADempiere, an >> audacious Malaysian led open source project that is making waves in >> cyberspace.", the world will pay attention and get their imagination run >> wild with ideas of commercialising with services built around such >> technology stack. British Telecoms might want it. >> >> Contribute it now, or else someone somewhere else in India might read >> this and beat us to it. :) >> >> red1 >> >> >> >> >> > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
let do that part... u worried about the project. deal?? feed me with info. i can have it done on the plane... On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:14 PM, red1 wrote: > > rafe azsnal wrote: >> ok let build the business case. community lead project. >> > damn.. does that 'business' word makes me bitch, i mean pitch more: > > The business case is that if you have the whole attention on Malaysia on > that day via YouTube, and Forbes magazine wires carrying big words such > as "Malaysia leads the way with killer ERP addons to ADempiere, an > audacious Malaysian led open source project that is making waves in > cyberspace.", the world will pay attention and get their imagination run > wild with ideas of commercialising with services built around such > technology stack. British Telecoms might want it. > > Contribute it now, or else someone somewhere else in India might read > this and beat us to it. :) > > red1 > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
rafe azsnal wrote: > ok let build the business case. community lead project. > damn.. does that 'business' word makes me bitch, i mean pitch more: The business case is that if you have the whole attention on Malaysia on that day via YouTube, and Forbes magazine wires carrying big words such as "Malaysia leads the way with killer ERP addons to ADempiere, an audacious Malaysian led open source project that is making waves in cyberspace.", the world will pay attention and get their imagination run wild with ideas of commercialising with services built around such technology stack. British Telecoms might want it. Contribute it now, or else someone somewhere else in India might read this and beat us to it. :) red1 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
ok let build the business case. community lead project. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:03 PM, red1 wrote: > > well, let's practice what we pitch. Since we want community, well, here > is one right here. > > This community has really good people all around. Don't tell me not enough? > > In fact if you want them to get started to show something on the big > screen come June for MSCOSCONF: > > 1. Sphinx voice recognition integration to ERP (can ask Nuhaa to present > using a SIP phone connected to asterisk to call up the sales orders and > shipment info purely with her voice.) > > 2. Google Earth KVM representation of logistics info from the ERP. As > you browse the earth, your business info appears as icons and graphix > with widgets that blow up when mouseover for you to select Warehouse > locators, shipment lines, invoice documents and related accounts postings. > > All above ERP events can push to clients' sms or post to their Facebook > apps for intranet activity within the customer domains. > > E1 can be the MC.. he is bigger than Steve Jobs. > > rafe azsnal wrote: >> ermm.. like the idea of getting the bitching stop. :) anyway back to >> the original question.. i like the guideline given here and YES world >> mean WORLD. this is not simply just empty talk we really want to build >> those people one way or another. will translate this to management >> paper. let wait and see what would be the decision. anyway who going >> to lead this if so the we get the green light. we need to channel it >> to somewhere and that somewhere cannot be individual. >> >> //rafe >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
well, let's practice what we pitch. Since we want community, well, here is one right here. This community has really good people all around. Don't tell me not enough? In fact if you want them to get started to show something on the big screen come June for MSCOSCONF: 1. Sphinx voice recognition integration to ERP (can ask Nuhaa to present using a SIP phone connected to asterisk to call up the sales orders and shipment info purely with her voice.) 2. Google Earth KVM representation of logistics info from the ERP. As you browse the earth, your business info appears as icons and graphix with widgets that blow up when mouseover for you to select Warehouse locators, shipment lines, invoice documents and related accounts postings. All above ERP events can push to clients' sms or post to their Facebook apps for intranet activity within the customer domains. E1 can be the MC.. he is bigger than Steve Jobs. rafe azsnal wrote: > ermm.. like the idea of getting the bitching stop. :) anyway back to > the original question.. i like the guideline given here and YES world > mean WORLD. this is not simply just empty talk we really want to build > those people one way or another. will translate this to management > paper. let wait and see what would be the decision. anyway who going > to lead this if so the we get the green light. we need to channel it > to somewhere and that somewhere cannot be individual. > > //rafe > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
ermm.. like the idea of getting the bitching stop. :) anyway back to the original question.. i like the guideline given here and YES world mean WORLD. this is not simply just empty talk we really want to build those people one way or another. will translate this to management paper. let wait and see what would be the decision. anyway who going to lead this if so the we get the green light. we need to channel it to somewhere and that somewhere cannot be individual. //rafe On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:40 PM, red1 wrote: > > Say la 'open source developer'... big diff with 'non-open' one. Also why > put such a term 'developer', instead of 'leader'? Why aim low when you > can aim much higher? <-- ok, ok lets stop bitching and continue the > picthing... > > According to that man with the borrowed goat, it is: > > 1. S/he has to be an expert in a field that is niche. > > 2. S/he is known by a worldwide community as a top contributor. > > 3. S/he has global social engineering skills. > > 4. The contribution and expertise need not be purely technical. Let us > look at some examples: > > a. Jimmy Wales, is not known as a wikimedia developer at all but famous > as the man who recognised the power of it to bring wikipedia to its > present unassailable form. > > b. Linus Torvalds just started with a questionable kernel for the knack > of kicking a few professors' butts and took over the GehNuu domain and > mindshare by not giving a damn if the others can show a degree. > > c. Richard Stallman, who coded a minimalist Emacs but is the > spokesperson for freedom in software. > > In a way Dr. M is one such leader too. He recognises world class ideas > when he sees one. > > But let's say you call the bluff of the goatman and say, "Ok, show me > how to produce more of such leaders?" > > Well, in the http://red1.org/MSC8.pdf is one such scheme to nurture > more. From there you take a fairly good developer (in one case i dare > take Azrul or Boh or Raja Iskandar) and allow them to go wild on the > canvass. Key is (a) to maintain the spirit as open and not close > whenever they smell money. Otherwise you end up with another world class > kiasu bitch who just take in some millions and live it up in California > Bay. Come to think of it why not the goatman do that? Can replace the > goats with real bitchy babes. > > Back to our 1Malaysia gang. You can see that Azrul/Boh/Raja has (b) > worldclass ideas. That is really crucial. Do they dare to dream up ideas > that challenge the status quo? Or are they just lebih kurang 2 X 5 dan > jangan kacau jiran pulau sana? > > C'mon, 'world class' is a big word. You do not mean 'middle class' do > you? Or 'lower class' or regional class? World means world lah. Kalahkan > semua yang ada kat dunia ini. Don't care if its German, Russian, > Chinese, Indian or Latino, you are one that the whole world look up to > and bitch against instead. > > Now their ideas need (c) support if you want to be part of the building > process. Otherwise leave them be by luck they may become world level > like the goatman again. But then, you end up with more bitching ones who > either migrate or keep pitching non-stop. > > Ideas are contagious. Don't ever introduce one if you want a un-eventful > life. > > Actually the beauty of this idea is that you do not need millions of > bucks to pitch it. Just pay Azrul/Boh/Raja and goatman all in less than > RM50k per month and do not disturb them for a whole year. If they do not > launch something of world class every quarter, then i will permanently > stop bitching. > > Game? > > rafe azsnal wrote: >> >> What r we arguing here? Simply d concept of the criteria of what an >> open source developer is!! As simple as that. I'm looking for a >> guidelines which I can follow and determine what sort of help should >> be given to those individual. The man with the goat can bitch all you >> want and I'll definitely put it as one of the guidelines. Living proof >> of a world developer :) right? >> >> rafe >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Say la 'open source developer'... big diff with 'non-open' one. Also why put such a term 'developer', instead of 'leader'? Why aim low when you can aim much higher? <-- ok, ok lets stop bitching and continue the picthing... According to that man with the borrowed goat, it is: 1. S/he has to be an expert in a field that is niche. 2. S/he is known by a worldwide community as a top contributor. 3. S/he has global social engineering skills. 4. The contribution and expertise need not be purely technical. Let us look at some examples: a. Jimmy Wales, is not known as a wikimedia developer at all but famous as the man who recognised the power of it to bring wikipedia to its present unassailable form. b. Linus Torvalds just started with a questionable kernel for the knack of kicking a few professors' butts and took over the GehNuu domain and mindshare by not giving a damn if the others can show a degree. c. Richard Stallman, who coded a minimalist Emacs but is the spokesperson for freedom in software. In a way Dr. M is one such leader too. He recognises world class ideas when he sees one. But let's say you call the bluff of the goatman and say, "Ok, show me how to produce more of such leaders?" Well, in the http://red1.org/MSC8.pdf is one such scheme to nurture more. From there you take a fairly good developer (in one case i dare take Azrul or Boh or Raja Iskandar) and allow them to go wild on the canvass. Key is (a) to maintain the spirit as open and not close whenever they smell money. Otherwise you end up with another world class kiasu bitch who just take in some millions and live it up in California Bay. Come to think of it why not the goatman do that? Can replace the goats with real bitchy babes. Back to our 1Malaysia gang. You can see that Azrul/Boh/Raja has (b) worldclass ideas. That is really crucial. Do they dare to dream up ideas that challenge the status quo? Or are they just lebih kurang 2 X 5 dan jangan kacau jiran pulau sana? C'mon, 'world class' is a big word. You do not mean 'middle class' do you? Or 'lower class' or regional class? World means world lah. Kalahkan semua yang ada kat dunia ini. Don't care if its German, Russian, Chinese, Indian or Latino, you are one that the whole world look up to and bitch against instead. Now their ideas need (c) support if you want to be part of the building process. Otherwise leave them be by luck they may become world level like the goatman again. But then, you end up with more bitching ones who either migrate or keep pitching non-stop. Ideas are contagious. Don't ever introduce one if you want a un-eventful life. Actually the beauty of this idea is that you do not need millions of bucks to pitch it. Just pay Azrul/Boh/Raja and goatman all in less than RM50k per month and do not disturb them for a whole year. If they do not launch something of world class every quarter, then i will permanently stop bitching. Game? rafe azsnal wrote: > > What r we arguing here? Simply d concept of the criteria of what an > open source developer is!! As simple as that. I'm looking for a > guidelines which I can follow and determine what sort of help should > be given to those individual. The man with the goat can bitch all you > want and I'll definitely put it as one of the guidelines. Living proof > of a world developer :) right? > > rafe > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
What r we arguing here? Simply d concept of the criteria of what an open source developer is!! As simple as that. I'm looking for a guidelines which I can follow and determine what sort of help should be given to those individual. The man with the goat can bitch all you want and I'll definitely put it as one of the guidelines. Living proof of a world developer :) right? rafe Send from my HTC Android On Nov 19, 2009 9:32 PM, "nuhaa" wrote: i wud agree with boh - someone recognised by their peers. if i heard so much of good things about someone, coming out from everyone, i'd be interested to know the person rgrds Nuhaa All Bakry / cawanpink http://cawanpink.net http://fosschix.my On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:03 PM, red1 wrote: > > > Flying in and out of a country to pitch is usually done by many > personalities who are puttin... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia ht... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
i wud agree with boh - someone recognised by their peers. if i heard so much of good things about someone, coming out from everyone, i'd be interested to know the person rgrds Nuhaa All Bakry / cawanpink http://cawanpink.net http://fosschix.my On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:03 PM, red1 wrote: > > Flying in and out of a country to pitch is usually done by many > personalities who are putting themselves as world-class. Otherwise you > can stay and bitch like some guy with a goat in a farm, as no one will > think about asking you to sit on any world-class advisory panel. > > rafe azsnal wrote: > > > > Is this how we Malaysian measure??? So those people that we brought in > > flying economy is not world class developer?? 50 international > > speakers for osconf 09 is not top of their field?? Just because they > > fly economy?? This is how we measure?? Sad to see.. > > > > rafe > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Flying in and out of a country to pitch is usually done by many personalities who are putting themselves as world-class. Otherwise you can stay and bitch like some guy with a goat in a farm, as no one will think about asking you to sit on any world-class advisory panel. rafe azsnal wrote: > > Is this how we Malaysian measure??? So those people that we brought in > flying economy is not world class developer?? 50 international > speakers for osconf 09 is not top of their field?? Just because they > fly economy?? This is how we measure?? Sad to see.. > > rafe > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Is this how we Malaysian measure??? So those people that we brought in flying economy is not world class developer?? 50 international speakers for osconf 09 is not top of their field?? Just because they fly economy?? This is how we measure?? Sad to see.. rafe Send from my HTC Android On Nov 19, 2009 8:21 PM, "Hasanuddin Abu Bakar" wrote: business class == business developer == worldclass developer ? Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wik... On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:16 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: > What business class got to ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
business class == business developer == worldclass developer ? Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:16 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: > What business class got to do with being a developer > > rafe > > Send from my HTC Android > > On Nov 19, 2009 8:14 PM, "Hasanuddin Abu Bakar" wrote: > > > wow...selamat jalan bro.. =) > > > > Hasanuddin Abu Bakar > --- > Ubuntu embedded developer/tester > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut > > Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org > > PGP Public Key > http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:03 PM, red1 wrote: > rafe azsnal > wrote: > > Ladies, > >... > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
What business class got to do with being a developer rafe Send from my HTC Android On Nov 19, 2009 8:14 PM, "Hasanuddin Abu Bakar" wrote: wow...selamat jalan bro.. =) Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:03 PM, red1 wrote: > rafe azsnal wrote: > > Ladies, > >... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
wow...selamat jalan bro.. =) Hasanuddin Abu Bakar --- Ubuntu embedded developer/tester https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bizkut Get FireGPG for your Firefox! http://getfiregpg.org PGP Public Key http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC5A1B11965D43C5C On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:03 PM, red1 wrote: > rafe azsnal wrote: > > Ladies, > > How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the standard > and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look at?? > > rafe > > Someone who gets to fly business class together with a world class project > leader?: > > MUHAMMADSYAZWAN/BINMDKHUSAINIM 22NOV KUL BKK > > > > ELECTRONIC TICKET > > &nbs > p; PASSENGER ITINERARY RECEIPT > > > > PAN AIR TRAVEL SERVICE DATE: 17 NOVEMBER 2009 > > /93 BAAN KLANGMUANG AGENT: 1960 > > RATCHADA-LADPRAO RD.JANKAS NAME: MUHAMMADSYAZWAN/BINMDKHUSAINIM > > JATUJAK,BANGKOK 10900 > > IATA : 353 03542 > > TELEPHONE: 66 2 938 1444 > > > > ISSUING AIRLINE : MALAYSIA AIRLINES > > TICKET NUMBER : ETKT 232 3830708988 > > BOOKING REF : AMADEUS: ZV3RJH, AIRLINE: MH/L77VW > > FROM /TO FLIGHT CL DATE DEP FARE BASIS NVB NVA BAG ST > > > > KUALA LUMPUR MH 782 B 22NOV 1515 BST6MMY 22MAY 20K OK > > TERMINAL:M > > BKK SUVARNABHUM ARRIVAL TIME: 1620 > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
rafe azsnal wrote: Ladies, How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the standard and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look at?? rafe Someone who gets to fly business class together with a world class project leader?: MUHAMMADSYAZWAN/BINMDKHUSAINIM 22NOV KUL BKK ELECTRONIC TICKET &nbs p; PASSENGER ITINERARY RECEIPT PAN AIR TRAVEL SERVICE DATE: 17 NOVEMBER 2009 /93 BAAN KLANGMUANG AGENT: 1960 RATCHADA-LADPRAO RD.JANKAS NAME: MUHAMMADSYAZWAN/BINMDKHUSAINIM JATUJAK,BANGKOK 10900 IATA : 353 03542 TELEPHONE: 66 2 938 1444 ISSUING AIRLINE : MALAYSIA AIRLINES TICKET NUMBER : ETKT 232 3830708988 BOOKING REF : AMADEUS: ZV3RJH, AIRLINE: MH/L77VW FROM /TO FLIGHT CL DATE DEP FARE BASIS NVB NVA BAG ST KUALA LUMPUR MH 782 B 22NOV 1515 BST6MMY 22MAY 20K OK TERMINAL:M BKK SUVARNABHUM ARRIVAL TIME: 1620 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Google suggest me this: http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=33890 -- Best Wishes, ApOgEE a.k.a JeRuNgKuN https://edge.launchpad.net/~apogee - ApOgEE on LaunchPad http://artofapogee.blogspot.com - Art Of ApOgEE http://coderstalk.blogspot.com - Coder's Talk --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Azrul Hasni MADISA wrote: > World class programmers? Its a myth, there is no such thing. The moment > programmers become world class, they are promoted to management , replace > their compilers with powerpoint and instead of debugging they are now doing > *gulp* sales > > :)) > > LOL!!! not just doing sales bro, doing SLIDES!!! T_T --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
World class programmers? Its a myth, there is no such thing. The moment programmers become world class, they are promoted to management , replace their compilers with powerpoint and instead of debugging they are now doing *gulp* sales :)) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:52 PM, rafe azsnal wrote: > Ladies, > > I'm looking for a base line for "world class develop" looking at what boh > said yes I do agreed. We are looking to develop a world class developer and > we want to know how do you define someone to be it. What are the baseline?? > > rafe > > Send from my HTC Android > > On Nov 19, 2009 2:47 PM, "Raja Iskandar Shah" > wrote: > > boh, rafe was addressing it to the ladies. that's why i did not respond at > first. > > as a person who is responsible for employing people including ladies, this > is what i look for among fresh graduates: > 1. academic cgpa > 3.0 (not for intellect but for the sheer discipline to > get the assignments, exams, project work done) > 2. project work (not looking for the most brilliant stuff but for the > intelligence to select the project, the tools, development and > implementation) > 3. oss community (for communication and collaboration skills) > > i also like multi-disciplinary people. the most recent recruit is an > enviromental science graduate who took up programming for the love of it. > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Boh Yap wrote: > > > > hi rafe, > > Its not I ... > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
Ladies, I'm looking for a base line for "world class develop" looking at what boh said yes I do agreed. We are looking to develop a world class developer and we want to know how do you define someone to be it. What are the baseline?? rafe Send from my HTC Android On Nov 19, 2009 2:47 PM, "Raja Iskandar Shah" wrote: boh, rafe was addressing it to the ladies. that's why i did not respond at first. as a person who is responsible for employing people including ladies, this is what i look for among fresh graduates: 1. academic cgpa > 3.0 (not for intellect but for the sheer discipline to get the assignments, exams, project work done) 2. project work (not looking for the most brilliant stuff but for the intelligence to select the project, the tools, development and implementation) 3. oss community (for communication and collaboration skills) i also like multi-disciplinary people. the most recent recruit is an enviromental science graduate who took up programming for the love of it. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Boh Yap wrote: > > > hi rafe, > > Its not I ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
boh, rafe was addressing it to the ladies. that's why i did not respond at first. as a person who is responsible for employing people including ladies, this is what i look for among fresh graduates: 1. academic cgpa > 3.0 (not for intellect but for the sheer discipline to get the assignments, exams, project work done) 2. project work (not looking for the most brilliant stuff but for the intelligence to select the project, the tools, development and implementation) 3. oss community (for communication and collaboration skills) i also like multi-disciplinary people. the most recent recruit is an enviromental science graduate who took up programming for the love of it. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Boh Yap wrote: > > hi rafe, > > Its not I think, any of the following: > > not by having a certificate, > not by their position or pay in a company > Not by recognition of some body/organisation, > (unless its someone like IBM appointg you as a > Research Fellow, > or MIT (and I don't mean Mara Inst. of Technology!) giving > you an honourary doctorate) > > ... and not by winning a competition ;-) > > (** the competition you have in mind is not gonna identify or build >world-class developers, but its serves other purpose...) > > I would put it simply, someone recognised by their peers. > > The best indication of that is either by: > >contributing code to an significant FOSS project, > or >in the commercial world, designed and built a world-class >competitive product. > > Also, based on a categorisation of types of programmers from an > earlier post, > https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=8sgboj23c0cw&shva=1#search/what+type+programmer/1245f291f64b0f60 > > we have these: > > 1. Visionary > 2. Trailblazer > 3. Workhorse > 4. Drone > 5. Idiot > (this gives a good definition to work on) > > Lets's forget Lvl4&5, even among the top 3, there are differences: > > A Lvl3 programmer/developer, for e.g. could be very good/fast in his > work and produce good quality code, but be only mediocre at capturing > requirements, or not good in design (UI or System Architecture). Those > that make him world class? > > The Lvl2 guy, would be a good coder, and be versatile and flexible, he > should be able to accept an adapt new technology (like > distributed/cloud computing - languages like Erlang, Scala) and run > with it. So that's one criteria of world-class, versatile and > adaptable. For example, I find many Malaysians, even good programmers, > tend to stick to just one language and is reluctant to adopt new ones. > Good developers, like those guys working on major FOSS projects are > usually conversant in 2-3 programming languages. > > An example is Bill Joy (ex-Chief Scientist a Sun, and one of the > original founders) is a, not only was he the major contributor to BSD > Unix (Systems programming) as a student in Berkeley, he also help > design Sun's SPARC chip (Chip design) and contributed to Java > (language design). He was versatile and good enuff in all those > different areas. > > The Lvl-1 guys at right at the top, they do stuff nobody thought off, > often not intentionally... and create revolutions. What comes to > mind... > > Tim Berners Lee (HTTP), > Linus Torvalds (Linux), > Ken Thompson + Dennis Ritchie (Unix & C-language), > Shaun Fanning (Napster which started the P2P file sharing thing > that gives us Skype, Joost) > > Note, all these guys ARE PROGRAMMERS, and guys like Ken Thompson are > probably in their late 60's and still coding (working for Google, and > designing a new language...) > > The last, Shaun Fanning is rather unusual, he learnt programming to > write Napster, then locked himself up for about 6 mths to produce the > code People has crticised his code for being a 'mess', but its the > vision that counted and it became a proof of concept,... that others > improved on. > > So its not so easy to define world class, its your achievement that > counts.. > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:09 AM, rafe azsnal wrote: > > Ladies, > > > > How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the standard > > and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look at?? > > > > rafe > > > > Send from my HTC Android > > > > > > > > > > > -- > #--- > regds, > > Boh Heong, Yap > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[osdcmy-public] Re: World class developers
hi rafe, Its not I think, any of the following: not by having a certificate, not by their position or pay in a company Not by recognition of some body/organisation, (unless its someone like IBM appointg you as a Research Fellow, or MIT (and I don't mean Mara Inst. of Technology!) giving you an honourary doctorate) ... and not by winning a competition ;-) (** the competition you have in mind is not gonna identify or build world-class developers, but its serves other purpose...) I would put it simply, someone recognised by their peers. The best indication of that is either by: contributing code to an significant FOSS project, or in the commercial world, designed and built a world-class competitive product. Also, based on a categorisation of types of programmers from an earlier post, https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=8sgboj23c0cw&shva=1#search/what+type+programmer/1245f291f64b0f60 we have these: 1. Visionary 2. Trailblazer 3. Workhorse 4. Drone 5. Idiot (this gives a good definition to work on) Lets's forget Lvl4&5, even among the top 3, there are differences: A Lvl3 programmer/developer, for e.g. could be very good/fast in his work and produce good quality code, but be only mediocre at capturing requirements, or not good in design (UI or System Architecture). Those that make him world class? The Lvl2 guy, would be a good coder, and be versatile and flexible, he should be able to accept an adapt new technology (like distributed/cloud computing - languages like Erlang, Scala) and run with it. So that's one criteria of world-class, versatile and adaptable. For example, I find many Malaysians, even good programmers, tend to stick to just one language and is reluctant to adopt new ones. Good developers, like those guys working on major FOSS projects are usually conversant in 2-3 programming languages. An example is Bill Joy (ex-Chief Scientist a Sun, and one of the original founders) is a, not only was he the major contributor to BSD Unix (Systems programming) as a student in Berkeley, he also help design Sun's SPARC chip (Chip design) and contributed to Java (language design). He was versatile and good enuff in all those different areas. The Lvl-1 guys at right at the top, they do stuff nobody thought off, often not intentionally... and create revolutions. What comes to mind... Tim Berners Lee (HTTP), Linus Torvalds (Linux), Ken Thompson + Dennis Ritchie (Unix & C-language), Shaun Fanning (Napster which started the P2P file sharing thing that gives us Skype, Joost) Note, all these guys ARE PROGRAMMERS, and guys like Ken Thompson are probably in their late 60's and still coding (working for Google, and designing a new language...) The last, Shaun Fanning is rather unusual, he learnt programming to write Napster, then locked himself up for about 6 mths to produce the code People has crticised his code for being a 'mess', but its the vision that counted and it became a proof of concept,... that others improved on. So its not so easy to define world class, its your achievement that counts.. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:09 AM, rafe azsnal wrote: > Ladies, > > How would you define a world class developer?? What would be the standard > and guidelines?? If so we were to produce what should we look at?? > > rafe > > Send from my HTC Android > > > > -- #--- regds, Boh Heong, Yap --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/ Facebook Fan page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577 http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group. To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
