Re: [OSList] Canada Conundrum - what do you think - reply to nazi comment

[John Watkins via OSList]

Thank-you, Chris, for your passion, your eloquence, and your facts. 

John W

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Feb 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Mark:
> 
> I have mostly been ignoring your posts around this but I have to speak out 
> now. 
> 
> The leaders of the protest in Ottawa who have now been arrested include 
> people who are open, brazen white supremacists, anti-Semites, 
> anti-indigenous. Their views are all over the Internet. There are multiple 
> far right and racist groups and leaders in this protest. There are flying 
> their own flags and wearing their colours. They are not hiding. They are not 
> just misunderstood people. They are openly promoting fascism, racism, white 
> supremacy, xenophobia and anti-Senitism. There is an unbelievable amount of 
> hate being spouted all over the place by these protestors.  Most of those who 
> have followed them down this rabbit hole have failed to, or just refused to, 
> dissociate themselves from these people or their views. There are very few 
> people out there saying that these people don’t represent them. Most who 
> disagree with these views have long ago left the protest site. 
> 
> Their objectives when they arrived in Ottawa were to sign an MOU with the 
> Governor-General and the unelected Senate of the country to overthrow 
> Parliament. They were funded by donations that came mostly from outside the 
> country, mostly by Americans. 
> 
> These facts are not in dispute. 
> 
> Now I strongly believe in the right to protest. I understand people who are 
> frustrated by public health restrictions but the idea that a group of people 
> who broke hundreds of laws, who occupied the capital untouched for THREE 
> WEEKS and set up bouncy castles and hit tubs are somehow “living in a 
> tyranny” is an insult to the vast numbers of humans who struggle against 
> oppression, genocide, and repression all over the world INCLUDING those who 
> are arrested and brutalized defending their own Indigenous territories here 
> in Canada today. 
> 
> Open space is about passion bounded by responsibility. It acknowledges that 
> you have the ability to create conversation and to take responsibility for 
> what you care about. 
> 
> And so I canno longer let these messages on this list pass by without taking 
> the responsibility to point out that defense of these protestors and 
> especially the characterization of the racists and white supremacists in the 
> group as a few bad apples is deeply offensive to the hundreds of people of 
> colour, Jews, Muslims, LGBTQ and indigenous people on this list. I beg of you 
> that you reflect on who you are taking to in this forum and pause for some 
> self-reflection. 
> 
> There is simply no place in the world to “yes but” when it comes to these 
> ideas. If you passionately feel that you should be allowed to hate, or 
> support and defend the right to promote hate, then that is you certainly have 
> a right. But I have a responsibility to point out the company you are keeping 
> and to denounce you. 
> 
> Mark, I firmly believe that you have not understood the essence of Open Space 
> and your misunderstanding or willful ignorance of this situation leading 
> conflation of what we are doing in the world as facilitators with the hate 
> being spouted in Ottawa is deeply offensive. 
> 
> I’m pointing this out to you and asking you to stop dragging Open Space into 
> this. I find your opinions inaccurate, untrustworthy, and intolerant. There 
> are many ways we can discuss freedom without defending fascists. But if you 
> insist on defending fascists I will speak up against you and defend the 
> dignity and rights of humans to live free from hate. I am anti-fascist and 
> anti-racist and I won’t let these ideas stand unchallenged. 
> 
> Chris. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 10:05 AM Glenn Waters via OSList 
>>  wrote:
>> Enough of the nazi crap, please. I can't answer if you've misunderstood 
>> something but let me share some facts about what is going on.
>> 
>> In general this is a peaceful group of people. There are however a number of 
>> people attending that are not peaceful. They harass, assault (physically and 
>> verbally), and torment people who live in this area.
>> 
>> A large portion of the downtown is closed because it has been taken over. 
>> This is having real affect on those businesses that are already hanging on 
>> by their fingernails to stay in business.
>> 
>> For the residents living in this area the only two nearby grocery stores 
>> have closed because they fear for the safety of their staff. Many other 
>> stores and restaurants are closed for safety reasons.
>> 
>> Nazi flags have been flown, as have other symbols that are commonly 
>> associated with hate and supremacy.
>> 
>> Well documented leaders of white supremacists groups are attending. This 
>> does appear to be the minority, but I don't have data. Some have been 
>> arrested in the last 

Re: [OSList] Canada Conundrum - what do you think - reply to nazi comment

[john watkins via OSList]

Glen has the facts right.
The flags include the Confederate battle flag.
And it might be noted that 55% of the funding for this occupation is coming 
from right wing Christian groups in the US.
And that the national truckers association in Canada has said it does not 
represent Canadian truckers.
And the vaccination rate among Canadian truckers is between 83% and 90%.

John Watkins

> On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:03 AM, Glenn Waters via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Enough of the nazi crap, please. I can't answer if you've misunderstood 
> something but let me share some facts about what is going on.
> 
> In general this is a peaceful group of people. There are however a number of 
> people attending that are not peaceful. They harass, assault (physically and 
> verbally), and torment people who live in this area.
> 
> A large portion of the downtown is closed because it has been taken over. 
> This is having real affect on those businesses that are already hanging on by 
> their fingernails to stay in business.
> 
> For the residents living in this area the only two nearby grocery stores have 
> closed because they fear for the safety of their staff. Many other stores and 
> restaurants are closed for safety reasons.
> 
> Nazi flags have been flown, as have other symbols that are commonly 
> associated with hate and supremacy.
> 
> Well documented leaders of white supremacists groups are attending. This does 
> appear to be the minority, but I don't have data. Some have been arrested in 
> the last few days.
> 
> Shifting to opinion.
> 
> I don't think of what is happening a few kilometres from my home as a protest 
> anymore. It is an occupation that is taking away from the freedoms of those 
> who choose to live and work in Ottawa.
> 
> The occupiers assets are not being seized. They are being frozen. As this is 
> an occupation I am perfectly fine that.
> 
> The occupiers are incoherent. When asked about their demands it ranges from 
> "Freedom." to "We want to take over the government." There is little 
> substantiation behind any of the remarks. Most engagements with the occupiers 
> does not result in any understanding of what they actually want. My 
> understanding is that the original premise of the protests was around don't 
> force us to be vaccinated, wear masks, or have to have/show a vaccine 
> passport. 
> 
> I say go ahead and protest. That is your right and I believe in and support 
> those rights. Occupation is not on. 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022, at 11:56, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>> I have tried my best to bite my lip Regarding the dude's comment that all of 
>> the truckers must be white supremest nazi types ... What a ridiculous 
>> belief... that's being fed by the fake news that paints every Person 
>> protesting for Freedom as a white supremest. Yeah, Total BS  We are open 
>> space technology facilitators we believe in freedom ... right? Or have I 
>> misunderstood something?  And what did Canada decide to do? They decided to 
>> go and seize the bank accounts and the crypto wallets of the protesters.. 
>> Now what sounds more like  nazi tactics, protesting for freedom or seizing 
>> people's bank accounts without a trial?
>> ___
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Re: [OSList] Canada Connundrum... What do YOU Think?

[John Watkins via OSList]

The problem is that most of the folks “protesting” in Canada right now were in 
fact “sold on or bossed into accepting someone else's plans,” namely far right 
wing and conspiracy theory and dark money groups that are funding and cynically 
manipulating the truckers and others into participating in these protests. This 
was made clear by an interview on NPR yesterday with a woman who has been 
studying far right and white supremacist groups in Canada for a number of 
years. And those are not the people who are showing up to participate in some 
kind of open space event. They are just trying to create chaos and disrupt 
economic recovery. 

John W

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:42 PM, Tony Budak via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> "First, when thinking about strategies for organizational change, we need to 
> remember: Participation is not a choice. We have no choice but to invite 
> people into the process of rethinking, redesigning, restructuring the 
> organization. We ignore people's need to participate at our own peril. If 
> they're involved, they will create a future that already has them in it. We 
> won't have to engage in the impossible and exhausting tasks of "selling" them 
> the solution, getting them "to enroll," or figuring out the incentives that 
> might bribe them into compliant behaviors. For the past fifty years a great 
> bit of wisdom has circulated in the field of organizational behavior: People 
> support what they create. In observing how life organizes, we would restate 
> this maxim as: People only support what they create. Life insists on its 
> freedom to participate and can never be sold on or bossed into accepting 
> someone else's plans", 
> 
> From: 
> Bringing Life to Organizational Change
> Journal for Strategic Performance Measurement, April/May 1998
> Margaret J. Wheatley & Myron Kellner-Rogers
> 
> On 2/12/2022 12:25 PM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>> The protestors say, ...We stand for Freedom!... What does Canada's leader 
>> stand for?  Authoritarianism? Maybe they will need to build a lot of prisons 
>> to lock up the protestors. Or maybe the Leader should call Harrison Owen to 
>> facilitate an Open Space Technology meeting for Canada and the world to have 
>> a conversation.  What do you think my brothers and sisters?
>> MC
>> 
>> 
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> -- 
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> 
> Stay Safe and Well, Tony Budak 
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Re: [OSList] Who is BS-ing Whom?

[john watkins via OSList]

Michael, and Mark,

I appreciate your thoughtful and eloquent response and exploration of the 
nature of open space speech and the difference between that and something like 
holocaust denial speech. I think therein lies my concern. As I said to Mark, I 
spoke my concern in “I” statements, so as to make sure that folks would know it 
was my opinion about something, not an attempt to control. But I think your 
raising the question of the illegality in Germany of holocaust denial speech is 
the very point I was trying to make. I think there is a very fine line between 
something like holocaust denial speech and hate speech and harmful speech. I 
would call pandemic denial or vaccine denial speech that encourages people not 
to get vaccinated, and thus be more likely to get covid, get hospitalized, and 
die, while also being more likely to infect others along the way, is definitely 
at least harmful speech. The question for me then becomes, is a forum like ours 
a place where that kind of speech is appropriate, as much as we value open 
space and the encouragement of diversity of opinion it is all about?

John W

> On Jan 21, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Michael M Pannwitz  wrote:
> 
> Dear Mark, John and all you other Peacemakers out there,
> 
> when Harrison took the manuscript of "The Practice of Peace" to his publisher 
> Berrett-Koehler at the beginning of the present millenium they felt it didn't 
> fit into their program...
> 
> He and everybody else were surprised about being surprised that this was not 
> the end of the book.
> What happened?
> 
> Not only believing but knowing what the force of selforganisation is capable 
> of doing when finding enough space to unfold, Harrison signaled to all of us 
> that the book can be printed and distributed without any strings attached.
> Or in othe words, expanded the space.
> What happened?
> 
> In no time flat the book was printed and distributed and later also 
> translated by folks in 8 countries around the globe in North America, Europe, 
> near and far Asia (from the European point of view), Australia, the Caribic 
> ... (see "A NOTE ON THIS PUBLICATION" on the second page of The Practice of 
> Peace as published two years later by the Human Systems Dynamics Institute).
> 
> Harrison called this phenomenon the "Global Chaordic
> Publication".
> 
> It is the string "Who is BS-ing Whom?" that instantly fired up my synapses 
> which resurfaced this phehomenon... and my thoughts later on.
> 
> Mulling over the current pandemic lets me wonder what incited the worst 
> pandemics on the globe.
> Not surprising myself in any serious fashion I felt it is us ouselves... like 
> the creature in Pogo looking in a mirror seeing his enemy, see here
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_have_met_the_enemy
> 
> And what is it, at the core, that causes this disaster? Which virus is that? 
> What is the name of the disease this virus creates?
> How about "control", the only real enemy of "selforganisation".
> And who is best at controlling.
> Yep, us.
> 
> What was the impedement to publishing "The Practice of Peace"? What hindered 
> an established, mainstream and well known publisher to turn down a book from 
> an author that had a vision?
> 
> If we start controlling OSLIST it will lose its meaning.
> 
> This does not mean that illegal content can be shown on OSLISt.
> In Germany, for instance, and other countries in which German is the main 
> language and a dozen other countries it is illegal and punishable to deny the 
> holocaust. It is a crime to spread such "opinions" punished in Germany by 3 
> months up to 5 years imprisonment.
> 
> It seems to me that I would feel much better if our exchange is as broad as 
> possible... it would expand the space for the most powerful and sustained 
> force we know of.
> 
> Greetings from Berlin where neighbors and friends and family come by on this 
> sunny winterday with a bit of snow ... curious to see what I look like at the 
> end of my 82nd year.
> 
> Cheers
> mmp
> 
> 
> 
> Am 20.01.2022 um 23:57 schrieb Mark Carmel via OSList:
>> I agree with you John...
>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 3:38 PM John Watkins > > wrote:
>>I’m sorry but I do not think this kind of massive disinformation and
>>political agenda belongs on this list.
>>Sent from John's iPhone
>>>On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:35 PM, Mark Carmel via OSList
>>>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>These are not my thoughts or my words.  I Do not know the author. 
>>> But here is food for thought, or better put... here is a shot for
>>>a thought... that I wanted to share with YOU, the World's greatest
>>>peacemakers:
>>> 
>>>Quote from author unknown:   ...Among all the vaccines I have
>>>known in my life (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles,
>>>rubella, chickenpox, hepatitis, meningitis and tuberculosis), I
>>>want to also add flu and pneumonia. I have never seen a vaccine

Re: [OSList] Who is BS-ing Whom?

[John Watkins via OSList]

I’m sorry but I do not think this kind of massive disinformation and political 
agenda belongs on this list. 

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:35 PM, Mark Carmel via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> These are not my thoughts or my words.  I Do not know the author.  But here 
> is food for thought, or better put... here is a shot for a thought... that I 
> wanted to share with YOU, the World's greatest peacemakers:
> 
> Quote from author unknown:   ...Among all the vaccines I have known in my 
> life (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, rubella, chickenpox, 
> hepatitis, meningitis and tuberculosis), I want to also add flu and 
> pneumonia. I have never seen a vaccine that forced me to wear a mask and 
> maintain my social distance, even when you are fully vaccinated. I had never 
> heard of a vaccine that spreads the virus even after vaccination. I had never 
> heard of rewards, discounts, incentives to get vaccinated. I never saw 
> discrimination for those who didn't. If you haven't been vaccinated no one 
> has tried to make you feel like a bad person. I have never seen a vaccine 
> that threatens the relationship between family, colleagues and friends. I 
> have never seen a vaccine used to threaten livelihoods, work or school. I 
> have never seen a vaccine that would allow a 12-year-old to override parental 
> consent. After all the vaccines I listed above, I have never seen a vaccine 
> like this one, which discriminates, divides and judges society as it is. And 
> as the social fabric tightens… It's a powerful vaccine! She does all these 
> things except IMMUNIZATION. If we still need a booster dose after we are 
> fully vaccinated, and we still need to get a negative test after we are fully 
> vaccinated, and we still need to wear a mask after we are fully vaccinated, 
> and still be hospitalized after we have been fully vaccinated, it will likely 
> come to ...It's time for us to admit that we've been completely deceived...   
> I have decided to never refer to this conglomerate of chemicals as a 
> ...vaccine.. again if at all possible.   It is not a legitimate vaccine, it 
> is a manufactured composition of unknown substances pretending to be 
> something it IS NOT.  So, for me, I will only refer to it as an INJECTION, 
> which is being forced upon us to subject us to TOTAL AUTHORITATIVE CONTROL of 
> every aspect of our lives until every human being on this planet has been 
> made a subject of the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, ONE WORLD ECONOMY, ONE WORLD 
> RELIGION just as has been foretold by many Prophecies in SCRIPTURE for untold 
> years.  This so-called virus was instituted by design by those whose agendum 
> is TOTAL population CONTROL...  -  B.S.
> 
> ...The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those 
> who speak it...--George Orwell
> 
> MC the MC
> ___
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Re: [OSList] Where angels fear to tread

[John Watkins via OSList]

Jeff,

In the educational equity world we call this “radical inclusion” and “design 
from the margins.” Glad to see it show up in your work too. And of course it 
reminds us of the classic Meg Wheatley quote about healing a system by getting 
it together with more of itself, especially the parts of it that it didn’t even 
know were part of it. 

John W

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 5:10 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Peggy. 
> 
> Your practices for intentional invitation look great - glad you shared them! 
> 
> My question was being a little bit provocative. Your response is a big key. 
> 
> I've been taught that the vital insights needed for the health of a system 
> (such as a lifeplace) often come from the bottom and the edges.
> 
> The capacity to listen to "the stranger" who shows up in Open Space is also a 
> cultural teaching. 
> 
> I've experienced OS in which topics that needed to be raised did not appear 
> until the second day. The tricky elements of trust, comfort, risk, courage, 
> power, etc all have their say in this. We can prepare with sponsor coaching 
> and skilled invitation as you detailed.
> 
> Thank you again, and Birgitt and Michael.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 2:15 PM Peggy Holman via OSList 
>>  wrote:
>> Like Michael, I have had the experience of leaders making a list behind the 
>> scenes and being surprised that participants not only posted everything on 
>> their list but also things that they hadn’t thought of that turned out to 
>> matter to them. And, of course, the experience of witnessing the passion, 
>> interest, and creativity of people often surprises everyone who is in an 
>> Open Space meeting for the first time.
>> 
>> Jeff, to your question about requisite variety of topics in an Open Space, I 
>> see that as a matter of being mindful about invitation. The biggest 
>> investment of preparation time for the Open Spaces I’m involved with are 
>> inviting, as Harrison would say, “the people who care.” Whomever I’m working 
>> with, I encourage them to do the work of thinking through, given their 
>> purpose, who makes up the system — who are the people who care? In many 
>> cases, that may include involving a microcosm in shaping the organizing 
>> question and invitation so that it resonates with the people of the system.
>> 
>> I take my cue on how to think about who makes up the system from Marv 
>> Weisbord and Sandra Janoff’s rubric of inviting the people who “ARE IN” — 
>> with Authority, Resources, Expertise, Information, and Need. I also suggest 
>> an overlay for considering demographic diversity. For thinking about that, I 
>> draw from the Maynard Institute’s “Fault lines” - race, class, gender, 
>> geography, and generation and two “fissures” - politics and religion. Not 
>> all dimensions apply to every situation but bringing them up enables the 
>> people planning the Open Space to make a conscious choice about whom they 
>> invite and how.
>> 
>> This is a long-winded way of saying that my experience is that by doing the 
>> work to invite a requisite variety of people, a requisite variety of topics 
>> will show up. And then, to the principle of whoever comes is the right 
>> people, I let go of worrying about it.
>> 
>> Birgitt — to words and embodied experience, yes you are saying what I meant: 
>> it is not the words used that are most likely to help, rather the embodied 
>> experience. For example, describing the experience of Open Space and what it 
>> produces can be enough for some. For most of us, hearing a description or 
>> even seeing a video doesn’t come close to being there. It is a 
>> multi-dimensional experience that involves, head, heart, body, spirit. 
>> Rarely does this come across in a description. A story might communicate 
>> more of it. But I’m guessing most people discover some aspect they hadn’t 
>> expected from just reading, hearing, or watching a video about it.
>> 
>> Appreciatively,
>> Peggy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peggy Holman
>> Co-founder
>> Journalism That Matters
>> 15347 SE 49th Place
>> Bellevue, WA  98006
>> 206-948-0432
>> www.journalismthatmatters.org
>> www.peggyholman.com
>> Twitter: @peggyholman
>> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream
>> 
>> Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Birgitt,
>>> 
>>> your two sentences:
>>> 
>>> "My perspective: following the principles of OST, spirit shows up in the 
>>> moment, inspiring people to post exactly the topics that need to be posted 
>>> at that moment in time. This dynamic is altered when relying on anyone to 
>>> pre-post topics, or to set meta-topics, catering to limitation rather than 
>>> abundance of possibilities."
>>> 
>>> had some memories come up.
>>> 
>>> In at least three of the ost events I was involved in it turned out that 
>>> the 

Re: [OSList] Test...

[john watkins via OSList]

Lovely! I can use this format next week with a group of middle school students 
who are doing a fishbowl (virtually) with our senior leadership teams from 
across North America. They can model it for the districts, who can take it back 
and use if with their participatory narrative “street data” processes. Thanks!

John Watkins

> On Oct 27, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> A blog by Chris about PNI is below. In the example, an animating theme is 
> "how to get a bunch of perspectives from throughout a company on a new phase 
> in a company’s evolution."
> 
> And the questions he suggests for participants on a Google form: "share a 
> story of something that happened lately that made you think: ‘we need to 
> address this issue…'” Get everyone in the organization to enter one story, a 
> few sentences. On the form then ask them a) how common do you think this is 
> in our organization and b) what is one thing we could do to address that 
> issue?" 
> 
> As you see it's a way to harvest stories than can inform a next conversation 
> about the past-present-future. (In open space?)
> 
> Something like this could be adapted for a basic inquiry of our OS community 
> of practice. If there is a lively theme to propose! 
> 
> https://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot/very-basic-story-gathering/ 
> <https://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot/very-basic-story-gathering/>
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 12:58 PM Harrison Owen SR via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> OS in Schools is wonderful. Even a long time ago (25 YEARS?) A school up in 
> Seattle basically bookended its year. Opened with 2 days on the question 
> "what are we going to do?" and closed with 2 days - "what have we done?" 
> Everybody came -- students, teachers, parents, cooks, janitors -- everybody. 
> 
> Harrison
> 
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 2:54 PM john watkins via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> Jeff (and Chris),
> 
> I love this work! We (the Deeper Learning Dozen 
> <https://deeperlearningdozen.org/>,  working with senior leaders in school 
> districts across North America) see this process as deeply connected to our 
> efforts to get school districts to engage meaningfully with their most 
> marginalized students and families, and PNI is a really great process for 
> that, especially in valuing stories as evidence of learning, what works and 
> doesn’t work for kids and families, and what they see as needed changes. We 
> see it as really well aligned with our colleagues, Shane Safir and Jamila 
> Dugan, in their new book, Street Data: A next generation model for equity, 
> pedagogy, and school transformation. Thanks for posting!
> 
> John Watkins
> Oakland, CA
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2021, at 6:37 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I looked into "the method" with Chris not so long ago. It can be relatively 
>> simple actually. 
>> 
>> A few good questions are agreed upon: Questions that invite stories of 
>> experiences from members of the community (like our OS community of 
>> practice.) 
>> 
>> There is attention to crafting a short menu of questions that can bring out 
>> a story. Each person can then choose which question to answer. 
>> 
>> There is software that will collect the responses, and then it can help to 
>> arrange a round of "making sense" of the stories that are gathered. 
>> 
>> As an American I have interest in stories of Open Space helping people in a 
>> town or city toward (or return to) a sense of mutual love for the place, and 
>> mutual aid for one another. As just one timely example. 
>> 
>> There was interest in stories of OS as a practice of peace, also timely. 
>> 
>> Cynthia Kurtz write the book Participatory Narrative Inquiry and the 
>> software Narrafirma with colleagues. 
>> 
>> Jeff
>> Telegraph Hill
>> Yelamu / San Francisco California
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 8:38 AM Harold Shinsato via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> If you pray to the list serve Gods, don't expect much. There aren't any.
>> 
>> This list is self-organized and self-moderated. If things go well, I am 
>> hoping to get the OSList migrated to Mailman 3.0 soon. It will help with 
>> some of the bounce problems, but it won't make any difference to the 
>> self-organization of this conversation.
>> 
>> You might make a difference 

Re: [OSList] Test...

[john watkins via OSList]

Jeff (and Chris),

I love this work! We (the Deeper Learning Dozen 
,  working with senior leaders in school 
districts across North America) see this process as deeply connected to our 
efforts to get school districts to engage meaningfully with their most 
marginalized students and families, and PNI is a really great process for that, 
especially in valuing stories as evidence of learning, what works and doesn’t 
work for kids and families, and what they see as needed changes. We see it as 
really well aligned with our colleagues, Shane Safir and Jamila Dugan, in their 
new book, Street Data: A next generation model for equity, pedagogy, and school 
transformation. Thanks for posting!

John Watkins
Oakland, CA

> On Oct 26, 2021, at 6:37 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> I looked into "the method" with Chris not so long ago. It can be relatively 
> simple actually. 
> 
> A few good questions are agreed upon: Questions that invite stories of 
> experiences from members of the community (like our OS community of 
> practice.) 
> 
> There is attention to crafting a short menu of questions that can bring out a 
> story. Each person can then choose which question to answer. 
> 
> There is software that will collect the responses, and then it can help to 
> arrange a round of "making sense" of the stories that are gathered. 
> 
> As an American I have interest in stories of Open Space helping people in a 
> town or city toward (or return to) a sense of mutual love for the place, and 
> mutual aid for one another. As just one timely example. 
> 
> There was interest in stories of OS as a practice of peace, also timely. 
> 
> Cynthia Kurtz write the book Participatory Narrative Inquiry and the software 
> Narrafirma with colleagues. 
> 
> Jeff
> Telegraph Hill
> Yelamu / San Francisco California
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 8:38 AM Harold Shinsato via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> If you pray to the list serve Gods, don't expect much. There aren't any.
> 
> This list is self-organized and self-moderated. If things go well, I am 
> hoping to get the OSList migrated to Mailman 3.0 soon. It will help with some 
> of the bounce problems, but it won't make any difference to the 
> self-organization of this conversation.
> 
> You might make a difference though. I believe you already have. Thank you for 
> that, Mark!
> 
> On 10/24/21 11:50 AM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>> To the list serve Gods: Maybe it's time for a list serve tune up how 
>> about adding Chris Corrigan's method of story sharing so we can collect 
>> everyone's success stories in one place? Thanks for your consideration and 
>> service,
>> MC
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Harold Shinsato
> har...@shinsato.com 
> https://shinsato.com 
> ___
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Re: [OSList] Women in Agile Open Fri-Sat Oct 8-9

[john watkins via OSList]

Jeff,

Is it this?

The fox knows many things.
The hedgehog knows one big thing.

Isaiah Berlin, The Hedgehog and the Fox: An Essay on Tolstoy’s View of History 
(New
York: Simon and Schuster, 1986).

John

> On Oct 6, 2021, at 10:06 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Lucas. I see a couple of creatures in the open space who are 
> unfamiliar to me. How can i learn about groundhogs and hedgehogs, companions 
> to butterflies and bumblebees? 
> 
> Warmly
> Jeff
> Yelamu - San Francisco
> 
> On Wed, Oct 6, 2021, 4:55 PM Lucas Cioffi via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Women in Agile Open is going to be a great event this Friday/Saturday.  If 
> you've never experienced an open space online, drop in for their opening 
> circle for some inspiration.
> 
> I did a quick video interview  
> of April Jefferson (one of the two co-founders) so you can get a sense of the 
> energy of this event. 
> 
> Here is the registration link 
>  again.  The 
> cost is "pay what you can".  
> 
> Each time they host it, they stretch our platform (Qiqo) so that's why we're 
> thrilled to sponsor it.  I hope you all have a great rest of the week.
> 
> Lucas Cioffi
> QiqoChat | Lead Software Engineer
> lu...@qiqochat.com 
> +1.917.528.1831
>  
> 
> Live Online Events | Engaging Communities | Real Collaboration
> Drop in for open office hours! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 11:23 AM Open Space Institute U.S. via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
> The Open Space Institute - U.S. invites you to attend the Women in Agile 
> Open, an online Open Space meeting being held Friday and Saturday 
> October 8-9.
> 
> The Agile movement has made huge inroads throughout all areas of society 
> well beyond software to bring flexibility and humanity to work. The 
> focus on the importance of human value and capacity has been present in 
> Agile with the use of Open Space Technology in the Agile community since 
> before they adopted the name "Agile" in 2001. This event welcomes all 
> genders to come design the future together in open space.
> 
> https://www.tickettailor.com/events/womeninagileopen/518245 
>  
>  >
> 
> The OSI-US's own April Jefferson is on the amazing international team. 
> They'll be using QiqoChat with attendance times that will work for any 
> time zone. April has been pioneering it's usage in many areas. 
> Attendance is pay what you can by donation with a very low recommended 
> request of US$20 if that works for you.
> 
> We hope to see you there!
> 
>  Thank You,
>  The Open Space Institute - U.S.
> ___
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John Watkins, Ed.D. (he, him, his)
Co-Director, The Deeper Learning Dozen
Inquiry & Learning for Change
3100 Madeline Street
Oakland CA 94602
510-388-9370
johnw...@mac.com
http://inquirylearningchange.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmwatkins

Re: [OSList] Seminar from Sandra Janoff, January 2021

[john watkins via OSList]

Hi, Peggy and the OSList diaspora!

I don’t weigh in much these days, but I always listen and learn from the 
conversation. I do want to weigh in here, though.

I have known about and loved the whole system change work that Sandra and 
Marvin have done for ages! I helped design and facilitate a Future Search three 
(maybe it was four?) day retreat for the National Outdoor Leadership School 
(NOLS) a number of years ago (like, in the early ’90’s!) that included the 
board, administration, staff, instructors, alumni, and community members all 
coming together to rethink their mission and what they wanted to head out into 
over the next few years of their organization. It was a wild and gorgeous 
experience, replete with powerful storytelling, artifact sharing, coalescing 
around roles and the myths of their work, and a huge graphic representation of 
their journey in wilderness.

I have always thought that the idea of getting the whole system in the room was 
powerful. And in recent years as I have done more work on equity, particularly 
with schools and districts in low income communities of color, I’ve come to 
question a lot of what that means. As Meg Wheatley says, speaking of getting 
the system together with more of itself in order to heal itself, that means 
“especially... those it didn’t know were even part of itself…” Caroline Hill 
refers to this as “radical inclusion,” or “design for the margins,” and it 
means re-assessing the power relations among system members, and ceding power 
to those who have traditionally not had any.

I mention these ideas, because they help me rethink the terms that, Peggy, you 
use: authority, resources, expertise, information, and need. What would it mean 
to include those whose authority comes from experience outside the traditional 
leadership or membership or formal authority? What resources do those who the 
system didn’t even know were part of the system? What expertise can they bring 
that otherwise would not be brought to bear on the collective effort? What 
information do they bring that we’ve been missing in how we design? What needs 
to they have that we’ve overlooked?

So, I hope this is a helpful way to think about both Future Search and Peggy’s 
great frame.

John Watkins


> On Nov 12, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Peggy Holman via OSList 
>  wrote: 
> 
> Hi Open Space list friends,
> 
> Sandra Janoff, co-creator of Future Search, brings deep experience to the 
> work of helping a system see itself and find a path forward. She’s hosting a 
> seminar series in January that will undoubtedly be time well spent.
> 
> To this day, as I think about inviting, I draw on an insight from Sandra and 
> Marv Weisbord, her Future Search partner, about how to think about who makes 
> up the system in order to figure out who to involve: the people who ARE IN - 
> with authority, resources, expertise, information, and need. 
> 
> I encourage you to check out Sandra’s offering.
> 
> Stay well,
> Peggy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peggy Holman
> Co-founder
> Journalism That Matters
> 15347 SE 49th Place
> Bellevue, WA  98006
> 206-948-0432
> www.journalismthatmatters.org 
> www.peggyholman.com
> Twitter: @peggyholman
> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream
> 
> Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: Sandra Janoff > >
>> Subject: Can you share?
>> Date: November 12, 2020 at 10:40:40 AM PST
>> To: Peggy Holman mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> NEW Seminar! 
>> 
>> Don't Just Do Something,  
>> 
>> Stand There! 
>> 
>> Leading Meetings that Matter - 
>> Principles and Practice
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> SEMINAR is NOW ONLINE!
>> 
>> 6 Sessions
>> January 5, 6, 7 and 12,13,14, 2021
>> 
>> with   
>> Sandra Janoff, PhD 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Co-Founder, with Marvin Weisbord, Future Search Network
>> Co-Developer of Future Search 
>> Recipient of the ODN Lifetime Achievement Award 
>> 
>> Don't Just Do Something, Stand There!
>> Leading Meetings that Matter - Principles and Practice
>> 
>> An interactive seminar in leading meetings that matter 
>> for those who want to take a deeper plunge 
>> into managing meetings and managing yourself.
>> 
>> Sandra Janoff has redesigned this remarkable learning opportunity as an 
>> online interactive experience. It is based on the best selling bookDon't 
>> Just Do Something, Stand There!
>> 
>> Register Online Today! 
>> 
>> CE credits are available 

Re: [OSList] open space online

[John Watkins via OSList]

Which time zone is that 7:30 please?

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Rolf Schneidereit via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Alexander,
> 
> there will be a test of Qiqochat and Open Space next Monday,
> see below
> 
> Rolf
> 
> 
> NEXT EXPERIMENT
> We learned so much in this experiment that we decided: WE WANT MORE!
> We are planning to do an experiment now every other Monday.
> The next one coming up is:
> 
> VOSE #2: Staying socially connected in times of physical distancing 
> Monday April 6th
> 7:30 - Introduction to Qiqochat from Lucas
> 8pm - 10pm Virtual Open Space
> https://qiqochat.com/e/CFlPxMjDcbEUvXRsGNemvJWNN
> 
> 
> Am 04.04.2020/ Kw14 um 15:47 schrieb Alexander Schilling via OSList 
> :
> 
> Hey Thomas,
>  
> nice to meet you here again : ) Thank you and Bhavesh for the answer. Looks 
> very useful. I will try it!
>  
> Have a nice Weekend
> Alexander
>  
>  
> Von: Thomas Herrmann  
> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. April 2020 23:02
> An: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> 
> Cc: Harrison Owen ; Alexander Schilling 
> 
> Betreff: Re: [OSList] open space online
>  
> QiqoChat is a useful software for this. 
> Thomas
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone
> 
> 
>> 3 apr. 2020 kl. 22:53 skrev Alexander Schilling via OSList 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi all, 
>>  
>> peparing my next open spaces , i would like to ask you: which tool - beside 
>> the combination of video-chat and mural/googledocs-like tools - would you 
>> recommend to do an open space online. Is there an all in one solution, 
>> readily prepared for online open spaces? I need it for less and for more, 
>> than 50 people.
>> 
>> Alexander Schilling
>>  
>> Fon +49 40 32 84 51 16
>> Mob. +49 177 7531168
>> 
>> 
>> www.raumfuer.de
>> www.twitter.com
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.04.2020 um 22:29 schrieb Harrison Owen via OSList 
>>> :
>>> Exchange... yes. And on that note I might suggest that "getting the whole 
>>> system in the room" (Marv Weisbord's phrase) is certainly related to the 
>>> idea of diversity -- but not quite the same thing a my meaning when I 
>>> described "diversity" as one of the critical five preconditions for self 
>>> organization. My understanding of diversity may be achieved when "all who 
>>> care" are there (for the OS). "Caring" is the operative word. Putting it 
>>> simply: "If you care, you got to be there." "Those who care might include: 
>>> The whole system, less than the whole system, or more. I've had the 
>>> experience (as I am sure you have as well, Michael) when total onlookers, 
>>> just casual observers, suddenly discover that they have an interest, some 
>>> input -- and actually care. Sometimes they just stand in the doorways, but 
>>> on occasion they just moved right in and took over -- to the benefit of 
>>> everybody. Why or how -- who knows??? But they cared! I've seen this happen 
>>> often enough that I added another little reminder to myself and 
>>> whomsoever..."Honor the Stranger." They always show up and their gifts can 
>>> be extravagant. Strangers in out midst is by no means a bad thing. 
>>>  
>>> Harrison
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Michael M Pannwitz via OSList 
>>> To: Rolf Schneidereit via OSList 
>>> Cc: Michael M Pannwitz 
>>> Sent: Fri, Apr 3, 2020 3:24 am
>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Meeting of the tribes: Our gifts for crisis and change
>>> 
>>> Dear Rolf,
>>> 
>>> exchange is what OSLIST thrives on.
>>> 
>>> For me, it is (was) THE  worldwide place for reflecting and learning and 
>>> unfolding about my working and living as an os facilitator... in 
>>> addition to my regular interaction in local, regional and worldwide 
>>> OSonOS, including the Stammtische in Berlin (inactive for the duration 
>>> of physical contact restrictions with the hope that the WOSonOS in 
>>> Berlin in October of this year will be possible and, of course, 
>>> Stammtische again...).
>>> 
>>> Looking at the 5 or so prerequisites for the unfolding of 
>>> selforganisation (the center of my craft), I have always looked 
>>> specifically at "diversity" (or as some say "getting the whole system in 
>>> the room") and advocated that our os-exchanges would profit from high 
>>> diversity as far as participants are concerned. I always felt that 
>>> "diversity" was one of the prerequisites that we have some influence in. 
>>> For instance, who all we would invite to our events (including OSLIST).
>>> 
>>> Looking at that aspect, diversity can be expanded in the same way as we 
>>> suggest to our clients. Usually, we ask some simple questions in the 
>>> planning stage of an event, such as "who all needs to be at the event to 
>>> increase the chance for fullfilling both our aspirations we have around 
>>> the "burning business issue" and the chance for action on the stuff that 
>>> we feel needs to be taken?".
>>> 
>>> Often, I have found that in answering this question some pretty relevant 
>>> groups were not in focus, such as "the customer" which, in a school 
>>> setting, might be 

Re: [OSList] On-line OST platforms

[John Watkins via OSList]

I’m also interested in this question. We’ve had to cancel an upcoming convening 
of school district senior leaders from around North America that was to be in 
large part an open space event. Now we’re considering if we can do it virtually 
using zoom. I’d love to hear ideas!

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Mar 12, 2020, at 6:45 AM, Csaba Lengyel via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear Collegues,
> 
> Social distancing due to coronavirus mitigation efforts brings-up the 
> necessity of using on-line OST platforms. I know there has been some 
> discussion already in this forum on this topic, but I would be very much 
> interested the current best solutions and experiences.
> 
> Can you share your thoughts?
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Csaba Lengyel
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Re: [OSList] Ten Weeks in Open Space

[john watkins via OSList]

Harrison,

Lovely! And I agree with you about the Missa Solemnis! 

John W.

> On Apr 16, 2019, at 8:40 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
>For some odd reasons, I  committed to “teaching” a course 
> which met once a week for 10 weeks. I think my hosts assumed I would do the 
> standard “Lecture/Discussion,”  but I had a different plan. Do it all in Open 
> Space. It has become an interesting experiment. 
>I have been involved in multiple, multi-day events, but the 
> days were always contiguous. What would happen, I wondered, if you did 10 
> Open Spaces, each an hour and a half, and separated by a week? I had little 
> question that something useful (rich learning, community, etc) might occur in 
> the first session – but would it continue, build, attenuate? The question is 
> neither idle or purely academic, and could point in the direction of 
> enhancing extended, formal learning environments. 
>My host was a university and my experience to date has been 
> that no matter how fiercely universities pursue “advanced learning 
> environments/approaches,” they are terrified of Open Space.  Those may not be 
> the words the academics of my acquaintance would be comfortable with – but 
> those words do seem to fairly describe the behavior. Open Space is 
> occasionally allowed as an “experiment” – with the full and certain knowledge 
> that it could not possibly “work.” I have also witnessed massive and 
> sustained efforts devoted to the eradication of Open Space in those rare 
> instances when it seemed to have taken root.
>Why these attitudes exist, I do not know (but I do have some 
> suspicions) – however the opportunity to test the academic environment was 
> irresistible. Certainly the statistical significance of my experiment is 
> negligible. There is an effective N of 1… all the way around. One class, one 
> university, one time. The participants are all senior citizens, and the 
> course content perhaps bizarre: Death, Dying and Life.
>We are now three quarters of the way through. Prudence would 
> dictate waiting for the end and a follow up with post-tests. However the 
> trends are pretty clear and academic purity was never my strong point. 
> Besides if the definitive word is not written others (that could be you!) 
> might do a replication, and that would be wonderful! For the record, I did 
> everything “by the book” – including post-its, masking tape, Issues of 
> concern stuck to the wall. In the first session we posted issues to be 
> addressed over the next 10 weeks, with the clear understanding that additions 
> and changes could be made at any point along the way.
>The first session happened just like usual – no surprise. We 
> took about half an hour to create the agenda leaving one hour for the first 
> groups, of which there were four. Reports were generated over the next week, 
> emailed back to me – and then combined and resent.
>One week later everybody returned (16) and the next round of 
> groups occurred (I forget how many) without prodding or assistance. In fact I 
> left to get some coffee. When an hour had expired, all returned for a brief 
> Closing Circle, actually sort of square, as it seems that circles are a step 
> too far for the university J I thought we might be getting somewhere when one 
> of the participants said the whole thing was really odd. “We were talking 
> about Death and Grief… and people were laughing.”
>This past week I received an email from the university 
> official saying that she wished to “visit the class, possibly for 15 
> minutes.” I responded that she was certainly welcome, but that I was unsure 
> what, if anything, she might see or hear. The room we had been assigned was 
> rather small and definitely noisy with multiple groups conversing. It took 
> the participants virtually no time at all to discover a number of small 
> “conversation nooks,” furnished and private, located all over the building. 
> Of course, during class hours everybody else was in class – except for our 
> participants. They were everywhere and kept moving. I suggested that the 
> official might do better to come for the whole time (1 ½ hours) so she would 
> at least know where to start. I also told her that she would be treated just 
> like all participants – no special handling or introduction.  I knew she 
> would make her way and the people would take care of her – as they did for 
> everybody else.
>When the session was over, everybody came back to the “home 
> room.” We never did have a “sit down” closing circle because the place was 
> just buzzing and people had busses to catch. Our official visitor had this 
> bemused smile and was now totally enveloped by the group. I never did 
> formally meet her, actually I’m not even sure exactly what she looks like. 
> But I did receive an email from her when I got 

Re: [OSList] Report From The Field

[john watkins via OSList]

As Dave Snowden says, in his Cynefin framework, in complex spaces, the leader’s 
role is to “probe, categorize, and respond (and practice is emergent);” 
whereas, in the chaotic space, the work is to “act, sense, and respond (and 
practice is always novel).” Probing can often be a “safe to fail experiment.” 
It would seem that, even in a space where the broader political leadership is 
as negative as we are experiencing now, within our own contexts, we must still 
build pioneering communities, to use Margaret Wheatley’s phrase, and open space 
seems ideally suited to both the response to complexity and the response to 
chaos, to help with that co-construction…

John W.

> On Jan 9, 2019, at 8:55 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mark may be odd (I plead Guilty too) – but he does speak from a place of 
> practical engagement. Otherwise known as, “in the trenches.” Not always 
> pretty, but definitely where the rubber meets the road…
>  
> “Chaos is alive and well and now, fed by resistance, is a different animal 
> for facilitators as ill intent looms large. If one's goal as leader is to 
> obstruct, defame, ridicule, and act to prevent progress of any kind so as to 
> counter any credibility for your co-leaders, then it is impossible.  That is 
> America today and it makes honest attempts at system improvement challenging 
> to say the least. In any organization the leadership MUST embrace the power 
> of collaboration and system improvement.  There are a lot of really well run 
> governments where the honest leaders seek to inspire positive improvements, 
> continuously.  In the great USofA we have a significant leadership crisis 
> where mutually assured self destruction is taking place.”
> (Mark Carmel – quoted without permission)
>  
> I would guess that we need to keep opening space – wherever, however, about 
> whatever… but we sure need some breathing room. The details of “solution” are 
> more than any of us can provide, or even contemplate. But we do know how to 
> establish the space in which serious, productive conversations can take 
> place. And that “conversation” is going to be a big one. Last count… 
> something around 8 billion participants. Odd, wild, weird? For sure. But we 
> do have the means. Will we find the will and the way? Stay tuned!
>  
> ho
>  
>  
> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Barry Owen via 
> OSList
> Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 8:46 AM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Cc: Barry Owen; Mark Carmel
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Report From The Field
>  
> Marai thank you for the offering of this video.
>  
> It mirrors many of the thoughts swimming around in my head about the 
> seemingly incessant "need" for many people to resist and fight when what's 
> most useful is the Opening of more space.
>  
> If only a sliver of the energy expended on this "warring" over anything and 
> everything imaginable were to be directed towards more intentional human to 
> human contact, this world be a kinder, gentler, and more forgiving world.
>  
> As I witness so many layers of human ugliness manifesting all around us, my 
> thoughts always shift to a mantra I've heard from Harrison Owen for years:
>  
> Just keep on opening space!
>  
> b
>   
> Barry Owen
> Real Estate Strategist
> CEO/Principal Broker
> Pareto Realty, LLC \pə-ˈrā-(ˌ)tō\ 
> 
> The Vital Few
> 4004 Hillsboro Pike Ste 234-B
> Nashville, TN 37215 
> Office: 615-502-2080
> Connect: 615-568-2123
> BarryOwen.US 
> WhyJoinParetoRealty.com 
>  
>  
> Inviter - Facilitator/Practicer of Open Space Technology 
> Opening & Holding safe space for people and organizations to self-organize 
> around important issues and opportunities. 
> Invite - Listen - Love
> Pareto Realty is a residential real estate sales firm that supports member 
> agents in building and growing consistently productive niche businesses as 
> they enjoy the healthy life rhythm they want and deserve.
>  
>  
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 3:31 PM Marai Kiele via OSList 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
> wrote:
>> Dear Mark,
>>  
>> I appreciate your flow of energy and appreciation, both for OST and 
>> Harrison! 
>> I am fascinated, hearing about the „at that time“ largest educational 
>> transformation group and I honour you as someone who has walked the trails 
>> of OST before me.
>>  
>> At the same time, I notice my resentment in regard to this part of your 
>> sharing: 
>>  
>> "beware of the evil spirits that seek the status quo at all costs“ 
>> and"fortify oneself against the forces that WILL seek to undermine change".
>>  
>> I actually don’t live within a paradigm of something like 

Re: [OSList] canadian tables

[john watkins via OSList]

Chris,

How hedgemonic of you all!

John

> On Dec 4, 2018, at 7:28 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Another time working with Michael, we did an Open Space outdoors in the 
> middle of the village on my own little island, and lacking any sort of wall 
> at all, we pinned topics to a cedar hedge and called it “The Hedgenda.”
> 
> Chris
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2018, at 12:30 AM, R Chaffe via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You can always go outside and write/draw in the sand, dirt or snow.   
>> Perhaps it is a good exercise to plan for the agenda to be temporary and the 
>> participants asked to take responsibility for remembering the agenda they 
>> wish to run with.
>> 
>> Yes quite a challenge and one we often delegate to others!  
>> 
>> Regards
>> Rob
>> 
>> On 4 Dec 2018, at 7:20 am, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I sent a photo of Chris Corrigan in Canada with Canadian Tables ! but the 
>>> file size sent it to the list moderator.
>>> 
>>> Portable tables are set up on their ends to make 2 meter tall portable 
>>> walls perfect for os agenda making!
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> San Francisco
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 11:50 AM David Osborne via OSList 
>>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>> As a Canadian I have to ask. What are “Canadian Tables”?
>>> 
>>> Let me know and my best to all.
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 3, 2018, at 11:33 AM, Doris Gottlieb via OSList 
>>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Eva,
 
 Thanks for that lovely note. I have used Canadian Tables a few times and I 
 am so glad that way back when there were so many great OST facilitators 
 who discovered these ways to keep space open.
 
 With love,
 
 Doris
 
 On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 3:28 PM Eva P Svensson via OSList 
 mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
 wrote:
 Hi all,
 Long time no see or post from me - but I really need to say that for the 
 first time since about 20 years with Open Space I had the chance to use 
 ”Canadian tables” when I worked at the Royal Opera house in Stockholm - 
 and you could tell that there was NO way to put tape on the walls. Worked 
 great of course :-)
 hugs
 Eva
 
 Bästa hälsningar
  
 Eva P Svensson
  
 EPS Human Invest AB
 Co owner Genuine Contact Group Inc
  
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 företag och organisationer"
  
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 Besöksadress; Norra Allégatan 8, Göteborg
 Tfn: 0300-615 05, Mobil; 0706- 89 85 50
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 Skype: eva.p.svensson
 Facebook sida: EPS Human Invest AB
 twitter:@EvaPSvensson
 
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 dig, och låta dig själv finna svaren." Sokrates
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 M  +316 29.23.27.12   E  do...@dorisgottlieb.com  
  W  www.DorisGottlieb.com  
 
 Skype. DorisGottlieb 
    
  
 
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Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention

[john watkins via OSList]

Peggy and Birgitt,

Wow! I am really excited to see this in-depth analysis of the process of 
developing an open space organization. I’ve always felt that this was possible, 
but not seen specific examples, though most of the steps are familiar from work 
I have done with organizations, thanks to reading Peggy’s writing, the open 
space folks, the future search work, the art of hosting people, Meg Wheatley 
and the Berkana Institute’s work, and ideas about emergence from Peggy and the 
complexity theory people.

How rich!

With gratitude,

John W.

> On Aug 8, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Peggy Holman via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> Kari,
> 
> Check out Birgitt William’s stories in the OSlist archives about the social 
> service organization she ran as an Open Space Organization. Among her posts, 
> my favorite is one where she listed her lessons about Open Space 
> Organizations:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org/msg03764.html 
> 
> My story of the Open Space Organization Part 2 of 4
> 18 Jan 2001
> 
> I’ve put an excerpt from it below called Ingredients of the Open Space 
> Organization.
> 
> Another favorite insight from Birgitt is captured in this message 
> , 
> called Open Space client opportunity from July 20, 2000:
> IN EACH AND EVERY EXAMPLE INCLUDING THE ONE AT WESLEY, ABOUT THREE
> TO
> FOUR MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST OPEN SPACE EVENT AND ONCE SOME OF THE NEW WAYS
> OF OPERATING ARE IN PLACE, THERE IS A REVOLT BY STAFF THAT IS VERY LARGE
> AND AWFUL FOR THE LEADERSHIP. Even though staff want the change at the
> start, they rebel and get very angry at the leadership. In all cases it is
> about this time that leadership ends up in tears, wondering if they have
> made a BIG mistake, doubting themselves as competent leaders.
> COACHING/MENTORING/HAND HOLDING from the consultant is critical at this
> time just as the midwife holding the hand of the woman in labour when
> things start to get really bad just before birth. It is exactly the time
> not to try to fight what is happening, and the most important thing the
> coach can do is to reassure and to tell stories of how "normal" this stage
> is. When everyone gets through this stage, staff start talking about how
> angry they were but how they now get it. And leaders talk about their anger
> at Open Space but when asked if they would do it over again, always say
> that they WOULD. In every case they said that although the transition had
> been very painful, that the stuff was out in the open that had always been
> under the surface and had always gotten in the way (ie: Dead Moose stuff)
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Ingredients of the Open Space Organization
> 
> Below, I present a list of what we learned to pay attention to as an Open
> Space Organization. We refined this during those three years, actively and
> intentionally learning together to capture what worked.
> 
> 1. The grief cycle at work promoting understanding and tolerance
> 
> All staff were introduced to an understanding of the cycle of griefwork and
> challenged to view situations within Wesley Urban Ministries from a
> perspective that rather than dealing with "resistance to change", we could
> be dealing with a person working through the grief cycle. This promoted
> understanding and tolerance, and brought a shift towards deferring judgement
> about others.
> 
> 2. Storytelling promoting awareness, collectiveness, empathy, truth
> 
> Time was taken at regular intervals, every three months or so, for staff to
> tell stories. These were stories of the organization, of their immediate
> work in the organization or the larger context. Story telling time was seen
> as valuable, with all stories-sads, glads, and mads-being valued. Sometimes
> pictures and other artifacts accompanied the story telling. Through the
> story telling, we wove a story of a corporate culture that fostered social
> justice and valued all people as precious.
> 
> 3. The story of the organization including purpose, values and vision
> 
> We worked to achieve great clarity about our purpose, values and vision
> throughout the organization that was understood by all who were involved
> with the organization. The purpose, values, and vision were taken into
> account during every Policy and Operating decision that was made. All
> decisions and actions were upheld to ensure congruity with the purpose,
> values and vision.
> 
> 
> 4. The deep essence, working with what is not seen including Spirit
> 
> We realized that much of what we spent our energy on as an organization
> especially energy in dealing with conflicts involved attention to behaviors
> and actions. As a staff we started talking about a theory that was known as
> the "iceberg theory", attesting that most of what was really going on in the
> organization was below the level of the visible (behaviors and 

Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space

[john watkins via OSList]

Chris,

I would be honored and delighted! 

I am traveling with family in New England this month, but once I am back in 
Oakland, I would love to connect and talk. And of course, once we are further 
into the project and back in BC, perhaps we could meet in person.

John

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Chris Corrigan  wrote:
> 
> Happy to share experiences and stories John.  Sounds like a great project and 
> this stuff is starting to happen all over British Columbia, as a result of 
> governments and other entities who are taking seriously the calls to action 
> from our Truth and Reconciliation commission and process.  
> 
> Chris
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Jeff Aitken via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Great John. Sounds like Chris :) I'm happy to talk but he's a voice of 
>> experience. I wrote a paper about white folks learning some things...
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 9:42 AM john watkins > > wrote:
>> Jeff,
>> 
>> And I love that you have brought indigenous and first nations learning to 
>> the table. One of the districts we are working with is Cowichan, on 
>> Vancouver Island in BC. The district has made a commitment to re-engaging 
>> the first nations community in their efforts to redesign the school 
>> district, from how they see the land as part of the learning culture, to 
>> discipline, to learning strategies, to ways of engaging the elders in 
>> dialogue and shared wisdom. It is fascinating to see how that is happening. 
>> I’d love to learn more about what you found.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 12:31 PM, Jeff Aitken >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the clarification Karl. 
>>> 
>>> OS seems to hold the space open by having the rule and laws which actually 
>>> regulate the participatory process.
>>> 
>>> And I love your mention of ceremony as a way to understand open space.
>>> 
>>> My research was constrained and illuminated by being in a doctorate in 
>>> traditional knowledge. So I was finding indigenous ways of knowing and 
>>> being to help make sense of open space. As I learned my own roots and got 
>>> grounded there.
>>> 
>>> I had studied with the Basque mystic and anthropologist Angeles Arrien, 
>>> whose work in the Four Fold Way is just one kind of wayfinding narrative. 
>>> "Wayfinding" as a traditional cultural rubric for traveling thru chaos and 
>>> complexity, both outer and inner. So to find the fourfold way (and the Law) 
>>> at the center of open space was gratifying.
>>> 
>>> She also said the closing circle of an OS could be viewed thru the lens of 
>>> the "return and giveaway" formal closure of traditional ceremonies. To 
>>> gather again and share gifts and stories with one another.
>>> 
>>> I took seriously Harrison's lively stories of the Kpelle in Liberia and his 
>>> work with Hebrew creation stories in seminary. Both helped flesh out 
>>> traditional African notions of time and space (showing up in the four/five 
>>> principles) - and the interior and exterior dimensions of changes in 
>>> culture and worldview, such as Kabbalist frameworks of psyche and cosmos 
>>> embedded in those creation stories.
>>> 
>>> Our friend Chris C was a great resource, having so much experience with 
>>> First Nations and traditional knowledges and open space.
>>> 
>>> I love that John and yall and others are brilliant with sophisticated 
>>> Western tools in talking about OS. It was enjoyable to look in another 
>>> direction and also find value there. Wishing you good travels.
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> Telegraph Hill
>>> San Francisco
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 8:50 AM Royle, Karl >> > wrote:
>>> Great,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> As I posted I thought you might already be engaged in this arena..   ☺
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Have you looked at Sen and capability theory applied to education?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> K
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: john watkins mailto:johnw...@mac.com>>
>>> Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2018 at 16:43
>>> To: Karl Royle mailto:k.ro...@wlv.ac.uk>>
>>> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
>>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>>, 
>>> "pe...@peggyholman.com " 
>>> mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com>>, Jeff Aitken 
>>> mailto:r.jeff.ait...@gmail.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Karl,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Michael Fullan is one of my longest standing heroes in education. His 
>>> recent works, with Joanne Quinn and Joanne McEachen, Coherence: The Right 
>>> Drivers in Action for Schools, Districts, and Systems, and, Deep Learning: 
>>> Engage the World, Change the World, are really wonderful, thorough, and 
>>> solid. He’s also been an advisor to our project, and one of the 
>>> acknowledgements in the article you cite is the other person I am working 
>>> with on this project, Jal Mehta, at the Harvard Graduate School of 
>>> 

Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space

[john watkins via OSList]

Jeff,

And I love that you have brought indigenous and first nations learning to the 
table. One of the districts we are working with is Cowichan, on Vancouver 
Island in BC. The district has made a commitment to re-engaging the first 
nations community in their efforts to redesign the school district, from how 
they see the land as part of the learning culture, to discipline, to learning 
strategies, to ways of engaging the elders in dialogue and shared wisdom. It is 
fascinating to see how that is happening. I’d love to learn more about what you 
found.

John

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 12:31 PM, Jeff Aitken  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the clarification Karl. 
> 
> OS seems to hold the space open by having the rule and laws which actually 
> regulate the participatory process.
> 
> And I love your mention of ceremony as a way to understand open space.
> 
> My research was constrained and illuminated by being in a doctorate in 
> traditional knowledge. So I was finding indigenous ways of knowing and being 
> to help make sense of open space. As I learned my own roots and got grounded 
> there.
> 
> I had studied with the Basque mystic and anthropologist Angeles Arrien, whose 
> work in the Four Fold Way is just one kind of wayfinding narrative. 
> "Wayfinding" as a traditional cultural rubric for traveling thru chaos and 
> complexity, both outer and inner. So to find the fourfold way (and the Law) 
> at the center of open space was gratifying.
> 
> She also said the closing circle of an OS could be viewed thru the lens of 
> the "return and giveaway" formal closure of traditional ceremonies. To gather 
> again and share gifts and stories with one another.
> 
> I took seriously Harrison's lively stories of the Kpelle in Liberia and his 
> work with Hebrew creation stories in seminary. Both helped flesh out 
> traditional African notions of time and space (showing up in the four/five 
> principles) - and the interior and exterior dimensions of changes in culture 
> and worldview, such as Kabbalist frameworks of psyche and cosmos embedded in 
> those creation stories.
> 
> Our friend Chris C was a great resource, having so much experience with First 
> Nations and traditional knowledges and open space.
> 
> I love that John and yall and others are brilliant with sophisticated Western 
> tools in talking about OS. It was enjoyable to look in another direction and 
> also find value there. Wishing you good travels.
> 
> Jeff
> Telegraph Hill
> San Francisco
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 8:50 AM Royle, Karl  > wrote:
> Great,
> 
>  
> 
> As I posted I thought you might already be engaged in this arena..   ☺
> 
>  
> 
> Have you looked at Sen and capability theory applied to education?
> 
>  
> 
> K
> 
>  
> 
> From: john watkins mailto:johnw...@mac.com>>
> Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2018 at 16:43
> To: Karl Royle mailto:k.ro...@wlv.ac.uk>>
> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>>, 
> "pe...@peggyholman.com "  >, Jeff Aitken  >
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space
> 
>  
> 
> Karl,
> 
>  
> 
> Michael Fullan is one of my longest standing heroes in education. His recent 
> works, with Joanne Quinn and Joanne McEachen, Coherence: The Right Drivers in 
> Action for Schools, Districts, and Systems, and, Deep Learning: Engage the 
> World, Change the World, are really wonderful, thorough, and solid. He’s also 
> been an advisor to our project, and one of the acknowledgements in the 
> article you cite is the other person I am working with on this project, Jal 
> Mehta, at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. But I am not sure they 
> get all the way to total system redesign around principles and practices of 
> social network learning theory and pattern emergence through iterative 
> feedback mechanisms, which is why I love this conversation thread you started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I cite Peggy in my blog. Also Margaret Wheatley.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 10, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Royle, Karl  > wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Hi John
> 
>  
> 
> Have you seen…  
> http://www.michaelfullan.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/3897.Rich_Seam_web.pdf 
> 
>   … ?
> 
>  
> 
> I will read your blog
> 
>  
> 
> K
> 
>  
> 
> From: john watkins mailto:johnw...@mac.com>>
> Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2018 at 14:23
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>>
> Cc: Karl Royle mailto:k.ro...@wlv.ac.uk>>, 
> 

Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space

[john watkins via OSList]

Karl,

Michael Fullan is one of my longest standing heroes in education. His recent 
works, with Joanne Quinn and Joanne McEachen, Coherence: The Right Drivers in 
Action for Schools, Districts, and Systems, and, Deep Learning: Engage the 
World, Change the World, are really wonderful, thorough, and solid. He’s also 
been an advisor to our project, and one of the acknowledgements in the article 
you cite is the other person I am working with on this project, Jal Mehta, at 
the Harvard Graduate School of Education. But I am not sure they get all the 
way to total system redesign around principles and practices of social network 
learning theory and pattern emergence through iterative feedback mechanisms, 
which is why I love this conversation thread you started.

Note that I cite Peggy in my blog. Also Margaret Wheatley.

John

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Royle, Karl  wrote:
> 
> Hi John
>  
> Have you seen…  
> http://www.michaelfullan.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/3897.Rich_Seam_web.pdf 
> 
>   … ?
>  
> I will read your blog
>  
> K
>  
> From: john watkins 
> Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2018 at 14:23
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> 
> Cc: Karl Royle , "pe...@peggyholman.com" 
> , Jeff Aitken 
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space
>  
> All, 
>  
> I am finding this conversation just fascinating. I’ve been working on a 
> project with some school superintendents to completely redesign the 
> organizational systems within which what is being called “deeper learning” 
> (engaging, meaningful, real world, academically challenging, that combines 
> mastery with identity and creativity and connection) can happen more 
> pervasively and equitably in public schools in the US and Canada. Part of the 
> challenge is to overcome old epistemological notions of how adults learn and 
> how organizations are formed, because for the most part those are still 
> conceptualized in public education as operating within Newtonian, mechanistic 
> assumptions (which inhibit the appropriate structures and processes for 
> learning and organizing). I just wrote a blog on EdWeek about this challenge, 
> and referred to some of the literature on social learning theory and pattern 
> emergence as appropriate heuristics for this reconceptualization. I would 
> love to be a part of our own emerging conversation about this topic.
>  
> Here is a link to the blog: 
> http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/learning_deeply/2018/06/we_are_not_newtonian_billiard_balls_the_need_for_a_new_approach_to_adult_learning.html
>  
> 
>  
> Lovely to hear all your ideas!
>  
> John Watkins
>  
>  
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:47 AM, Royle, Karl via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> What I’m interested in… or what I have to do is write a narrative around my 
>> papers. Most of these (I have realised on reflection) have been about using 
>> vehicles, mechanisms, etc to create a space which is different to the formal 
>> spaces of schooling and education within which people can learn. These 
>> mechanisims, game based learning, mobile use, agile methods are all, I 
>> think, about creating an environment which is acceptable to the formal 
>> context but allows people to learn from each other, more knowledgable others 
>> and resources based on problem solving through collaboration and agency 
>> freedom.
>>  
>> So sort of Trojan horses of how we would like things to be… mechanisms, or 
>> techniques is probably better, that open alternative spaces for freedom to 
>> learn but also satisfy the contexts need for control and “outcome”.
>>  
>> K
>>  
>> From: OSList > > on behalf of Allison via 
>> OSList > >
>> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>>
>> Date: Sunday, 8 July 2018 at 05:08
>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>>
>> Cc: Allison mailto:mb...@iinet.net.au>>
>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space
>>  
>> Hi Karl, 
>>  
>> I would also like to know more about your PhD approach.
>>  
>> Depending which way you go with your research, you might find something of 
>> interest in my 2009 PhD thesis.
>> It included consideration of the philosophy behind several modalities, 
>> including Open Space Technology.
>>  
>> I believe the thesis:  "BODY 

Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space

[john watkins via OSList]

All,

I am finding this conversation just fascinating. I’ve been working on a project 
with some school superintendents to completely redesign the organizational 
systems within which what is being called “deeper learning” (engaging, 
meaningful, real world, academically challenging, that combines mastery with 
identity and creativity and connection) can happen more pervasively and 
equitably in public schools in the US and Canada. Part of the challenge is to 
overcome old epistemological notions of how adults learn and how organizations 
are formed, because for the most part those are still conceptualized in public 
education as operating within Newtonian, mechanistic assumptions (which inhibit 
the appropriate structures and processes for learning and organizing). I just 
wrote a blog on EdWeek about this challenge, and referred to some of the 
literature on social learning theory and pattern emergence as appropriate 
heuristics for this reconceptualization. I would love to be a part of our own 
emerging conversation about this topic.

Here is a link to the blog: 
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/learning_deeply/2018/06/we_are_not_newtonian_billiard_balls_the_need_for_a_new_approach_to_adult_learning.html
 


Lovely to hear all your ideas!

John Watkins


> On Jul 10, 2018, at 8:47 AM, Royle, Karl via OSList 
>  wrote:
> 
> What I’m interested in… or what I have to do is write a narrative around my 
> papers. Most of these (I have realised on reflection) have been about using 
> vehicles, mechanisms, etc to create a space which is different to the formal 
> spaces of schooling and education within which people can learn. These 
> mechanisims, game based learning, mobile use, agile methods are all, I think, 
> about creating an environment which is acceptable to the formal context but 
> allows people to learn from each other, more knowledgable others and 
> resources based on problem solving through collaboration and agency freedom.
>  
> So sort of Trojan horses of how we would like things to be… mechanisms, or 
> techniques is probably better, that open alternative spaces for freedom to 
> learn but also satisfy the contexts need for control and “outcome”.
>  
> K
>  
> From: OSList  on behalf of Allison 
> via OSList 
> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> 
> Date: Sunday, 8 July 2018 at 05:08
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list 
> 
> Cc: Allison 
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about opening space
>  
> Hi Karl, 
>  
> I would also like to know more about your PhD approach.
>  
> Depending which way you go with your research, you might find something of 
> interest in my 2009 PhD thesis.
> It included consideration of the philosophy behind several modalities, 
> including Open Space Technology.
>  
> I believe the thesis:  "BODY OF KNOWLEDGE: space, comfort, process and 
> consciousness in a country practice" can still be viewed online at:
> http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/37511517?l-format=Thesis=dateDesc=y=y=nuc%3ANUWS+baensch%2C+a=book#
>  
> 
>  
> Best wishes with your work.
> Allison 
> Tasmania, Australia.
> 
> 
>> On 8 Jul 2018, at 5:32 am, Tonnie van der Zouwen via OSList 
>> mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> And maybe my PhD research on success factors and effects of large scale 
>> interventions might be of help. See 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Building-evidence-based-practical-Interventions/dp/9059725034
>>  
>> 
>>  . For the large group merhods I included Open Space Technology.
>>  
>> Good luck with your research Karl.
>>  
>> Tonnie
>> i...@tonnievanderzouwen.nl  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung-apparaat
>> 
>> 
>>  Oorspronkelijk bericht 
>> Van: Peggy Holman via OSList > > 
>> Datum: 07-07-18 17:48 (GMT+01:00) 
>> Aan: Open Listserv > > 
>> Cc: Peggy Holman mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com>> 
>> Onderwerp: Re: [OSList] Papers and writing about 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Just a simple thought here:  I have almost never as a facilitator sorted or 
combined any kind of brainstormed list for participants.  I find that they are 
really good at doing whatever sorting and combining is needed themselves, 
sometimes with a minor prompt, and sometimes with no prompting at all.  
Sometimes sessions combine very naturally if people understand they can do 
that.  I am not always a believer that human social emergence processes are 
entirely like non-human natural emergence processes (because we have more 
agency and capacity for self-reflection as a form of systems feedback than most 
natural systems), but in this case, it is almost like the ways that over the 
timeframe of evolution simpler organisms combine together to form higher 
complexity organisms.

John

On Jan 27, 2015, at 11:30 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList wrote:

 Nigel, a few thoughts. One is to find more session times during the day. You 
 say there were three. How long was each session time? 90 minutes can be 
 shortened to 75 minutes for example. Could there be a fourth time added? How 
 about a 'working lunch'?
 
 I would not be concerned about the large number of issues leading to 
 fragmentation. If people care, the conversations are all important. 
 
 I do wonder if the theme is too broad and is not helping to focus people's 
 attention on the purpose of the meeting. If not, no problem. 
 
 And I'm curious about the design of the closing and the 'harvest' 
 documentation to serve the purpose.
 
 Another idea is: if that many passionate issues come forth to be engaged, the 
 sponsor might agree on two days next time!
 
 Jeff
 
 
  Original message 
 From: NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 Date:01/27/2015 9:51 PM (GMT-08:00) 
 To: mmpannw...@gmail.com,'World wide Open Space Technology email list' 
 Subject: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title 
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
  
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
  
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
  
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have become quite 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

So it sounds to me as though you are saying something like the framing of 
purpose and the tying together of harvest (to build on what Jeff said) are what 
help all the micro conversations to contribute usefully to the necessary 
diversity of ways of thinking that create oblique views in order to be able to 
address complex problems effectively.  Is that accurate?

John

On Jan 28, 2015, at 8:47 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList wrote:

 You can get a lot of work done with two or three people diving into a topic 
 together even while there are three or four similar topics being addressed. 
 
 Dealing with complex issues requires taking an oblique view of a problem and 
 coming at it from different angles. It is really good strategy to do this. 60 
 topics for 70 people could be excellent 
 
 What matters is your strategic architecture for following up. What is the 
 purpose of these micro conversations and what will you do tho them. Perhaps 
 having THAT clarity helps people relax with the volume of topics. 
 
 Chris
 
 -- 
 CHRIS CORRIGAN
 Harvest Moon Consultants
 Facilitation, Open Space Technology and process design 
 
 Check www.chriscorrigan.com for upcoming workshops, blog posts and free 
 resources. 
 
 
 
 On Jan 27, 2015, at 9:51 PM, NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
 
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
 
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
 
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have becomequite uncomfortable, irritated or even 
 foaming when I had a facilitator go to the Bulleting Board and cluster 
 stuff... turning into a space invador. My reaction, I suppose, got me to 
 be cautious with combining.
 
 How is your take on the impact of the words we use?
 
 
 Cheers and good luck with a very short event!
 
 mmp
 
 On 26.01.2015 22:59, Susan Partnow via OSList wrote:
 Hello dear OSers... I am planning a very short OS here in Seattle at the
 WOW (Women of Wisdom) conference - Sunday afternoon, Feb 15 - and trying
 to call the rule of thumb for 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Just a simple thought here:  I have almost never as a facilitator sorted or 
combined any kind of brainstormed list for participants.  I find that they are 
really good at doing whatever sorting and combining is needed themselves, 
sometimes with a minor prompt, and sometimes with no prompting at all.  
Sometimes sessions combine very naturally if people understand they can do 
that.  I am not always a believer that human social emergence processes are 
entirely like non-human natural emergence processes (because we have more 
agency and capacity for self-reflection as a form of systems feedback than most 
natural systems), but in this case, it is almost like the ways that over the 
timeframe of evolution simpler organisms combine together to form higher 
complexity organisms.

John

On Jan 27, 2015, at 11:30 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList wrote:

 Nigel, a few thoughts. One is to find more session times during the day. You 
 say there were three. How long was each session time? 90 minutes can be 
 shortened to 75 minutes for example. Could there be a fourth time added? How 
 about a 'working lunch'?
 
 I would not be concerned about the large number of issues leading to 
 fragmentation. If people care, the conversations are all important. 
 
 I do wonder if the theme is too broad and is not helping to focus people's 
 attention on the purpose of the meeting. If not, no problem. 
 
 And I'm curious about the design of the closing and the 'harvest' 
 documentation to serve the purpose.
 
 Another idea is: if that many passionate issues come forth to be engaged, the 
 sponsor might agree on two days next time!
 
 Jeff
 
 
  Original message 
 From: NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 Date:01/27/2015 9:51 PM (GMT-08:00) 
 To: mmpannw...@gmail.com,'World wide Open Space Technology email list' 
 Subject: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title 
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
  
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
  
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
  
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have become quite 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

So it sounds to me as though you are saying something like the framing of 
purpose and the tying together of harvest (to build on what Jeff said) are what 
help all the micro conversations to contribute usefully to the necessary 
diversity of ways of thinking that create oblique views in order to be able to 
address complex problems effectively.  Is that accurate?

John

On Jan 28, 2015, at 8:47 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList wrote:

 You can get a lot of work done with two or three people diving into a topic 
 together even while there are three or four similar topics being addressed. 
 
 Dealing with complex issues requires taking an oblique view of a problem and 
 coming at it from different angles. It is really good strategy to do this. 60 
 topics for 70 people could be excellent 
 
 What matters is your strategic architecture for following up. What is the 
 purpose of these micro conversations and what will you do tho them. Perhaps 
 having THAT clarity helps people relax with the volume of topics. 
 
 Chris
 
 -- 
 CHRIS CORRIGAN
 Harvest Moon Consultants
 Facilitation, Open Space Technology and process design 
 
 Check www.chriscorrigan.com for upcoming workshops, blog posts and free 
 resources. 
 
 
 
 On Jan 27, 2015, at 9:51 PM, NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
 
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
 
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
 
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have becomequite uncomfortable, irritated or even 
 foaming when I had a facilitator go to the Bulleting Board and cluster 
 stuff... turning into a space invador. My reaction, I suppose, got me to 
 be cautious with combining.
 
 How is your take on the impact of the words we use?
 
 
 Cheers and good luck with a very short event!
 
 mmp
 
 On 26.01.2015 22:59, Susan Partnow via OSList wrote:
 Hello dear OSers... I am planning a very short OS here in Seattle at the
 WOW (Women of Wisdom) conference - Sunday afternoon, Feb 15 - and trying
 to call the rule of thumb for 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Just a simple thought here:  I have almost never as a facilitator sorted or 
combined any kind of brainstormed list for participants.  I find that they are 
really good at doing whatever sorting and combining is needed themselves, 
sometimes with a minor prompt, and sometimes with no prompting at all.  
Sometimes sessions combine very naturally if people understand they can do 
that.  I am not always a believer that human social emergence processes are 
entirely like non-human natural emergence processes (because we have more 
agency and capacity for self-reflection as a form of systems feedback than most 
natural systems), but in this case, it is almost like the ways that over the 
timeframe of evolution simpler organisms combine together to form higher 
complexity organisms.

John

On Jan 27, 2015, at 11:30 PM, Jeff Aitken via OSList wrote:

 Nigel, a few thoughts. One is to find more session times during the day. You 
 say there were three. How long was each session time? 90 minutes can be 
 shortened to 75 minutes for example. Could there be a fourth time added? How 
 about a 'working lunch'?
 
 I would not be concerned about the large number of issues leading to 
 fragmentation. If people care, the conversations are all important. 
 
 I do wonder if the theme is too broad and is not helping to focus people's 
 attention on the purpose of the meeting. If not, no problem. 
 
 And I'm curious about the design of the closing and the 'harvest' 
 documentation to serve the purpose.
 
 Another idea is: if that many passionate issues come forth to be engaged, the 
 sponsor might agree on two days next time!
 
 Jeff
 
 
  Original message 
 From: NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 Date:01/27/2015 9:51 PM (GMT-08:00) 
 To: mmpannw...@gmail.com,'World wide Open Space Technology email list' 
 Subject: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title 
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
  
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
  
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
  
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have become quite 

Re: [OSList] Combining sessions - a slight change of title

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

So it sounds to me as though you are saying something like the framing of 
purpose and the tying together of harvest (to build on what Jeff said) are what 
help all the micro conversations to contribute usefully to the necessary 
diversity of ways of thinking that create oblique views in order to be able to 
address complex problems effectively.  Is that accurate?

John

On Jan 28, 2015, at 8:47 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList wrote:

 You can get a lot of work done with two or three people diving into a topic 
 together even while there are three or four similar topics being addressed. 
 
 Dealing with complex issues requires taking an oblique view of a problem and 
 coming at it from different angles. It is really good strategy to do this. 60 
 topics for 70 people could be excellent 
 
 What matters is your strategic architecture for following up. What is the 
 purpose of these micro conversations and what will you do tho them. Perhaps 
 having THAT clarity helps people relax with the volume of topics. 
 
 Chris
 
 -- 
 CHRIS CORRIGAN
 Harvest Moon Consultants
 Facilitation, Open Space Technology and process design 
 
 Check www.chriscorrigan.com for upcoming workshops, blog posts and free 
 resources. 
 
 
 
 On Jan 27, 2015, at 9:51 PM, NigelSeys-Phillips via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 Michael
 
 I have been actively wondering about this recently and after a really
 interesting OS two weeks ago with a local bank I appreciate for your
 thoughts
 In a couple of recent events - with the issues and opportunities in the
 title and the invitation to raise any issues or topics the participants feel
 strongly about - I have found myself (well, with assistance) almost 'forced'
 to combine as mathematically there were just too many!
 With three sessions available and some 70 people we were well above the 60
 odd issues20 plus breakout groups per session?
 
 I know, I know - stand back and let them sort it out...but with 'new' groups
 and a day what have others done?
 My fear is allocating every single topic a breakout space and 20+ groups per
 session the fragmented nature would mean limited results
 
 I know, I know - stand back and trust the system.
 I am trying (I totally do trust the system which is what I love about it)
 but it's hard
 
 And I really would welcome anybody's thoughts - what do I do next time?
 
 Best regards from a hot and steamy Malaysia
 
 Nigel  
 
 Nigel Seys-Phillips
 Fulcrum Business Management Solutions
 Tel: +65 9639 2510
 E-mail: ni...@fulcrum.com.sg
 www.fulcrum.com.sg
 
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
 
 This communication contains information which is confidential and may also
 be priveleged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If
 you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any distribution,
 copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly
 prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify
 us by return e-mail and then delete the e-mail and any copies of it.
 
 Warning - Although Fulcrum has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no
 viruses are present in this e-mail, we cannot accept responsibility for any
 loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or its attachments.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
 Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
 Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 6:55 PM
 To: Susan Partnow; World wide Open Space Technology email list
 Subject: Re: [OSList] Anticipating number of topics/sessions...
 
 Dear Susan,
 
 yes, thats my feeling too, 15 to 20 breakout spaces for 30 to 40 issues.
 
 Jeffs response on combining or abandoning topics got me to reflect on 
 the word topic. From work wayback with structured brainstorming I 
 remember a group of 25 generating between 30 to 50 topics.
 
 With os crowds and my use of the word issue (with talking a bit about 
 what is meant with issue in contrast to topic or idea or something I 
 am interested in, mentioning passion, urgency etc.) I find that there 
 was decreasing tendency of combining or abolishing. Actually, when 
 someone suggested to combine issues I would suggest in a very low-key 
 way that this was not illegal and add something like: What might look 
 and sound very similar often turns out to be different in an important way.
 
 As a participant I have becomequite uncomfortable, irritated or even 
 foaming when I had a facilitator go to the Bulleting Board and cluster 
 stuff... turning into a space invador. My reaction, I suppose, got me to 
 be cautious with combining.
 
 How is your take on the impact of the words we use?
 
 
 Cheers and good luck with a very short event!
 
 mmp
 
 On 26.01.2015 22:59, Susan Partnow via OSList wrote:
 Hello dear OSers... I am planning a very short OS here in Seattle at the
 WOW (Women of Wisdom) conference - Sunday afternoon, Feb 15 - and trying
 to call the rule of thumb for 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

John,

My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one of 
the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of the 
emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of meaning and 
aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; they tend to 
shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before you gather 
together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the limitations that 
we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We end up with what we 
started with, not something with new potential and power.  Goals can be 
helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and aspirations and what I 
want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for purpose first, and use goals 
only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for them, BTW), or even, 
retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention and aligned actions are 
envisioned and something has been accomplished.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:

 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me thinking 
 about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for that 
 space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 'purpose' 
 which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am always aware 
 that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes and ideas that no 
 individual will ever compute (even just those within themselves, let alone 
 others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/
 
 
 On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 Sometimes though, fuzzy purpose is really really useful.  I’ve had situations 
 where a group is really sure of what it is doing, and what it exists for and 
 yet nothing is working.  
 
 This happens a lot with mainline churches these days, many of whom are 
 certain that they can recreate the “success” they had in the 1960s.  They are 
 certainly clear on their purpose, but the harder they try, the worse they 
 make it for themselves.  
 
 And so we have run OST meetings where the purpose was unclear and fuzzy and 
 people simply proposed topics that interested them.  And it turns out that 
 that is a good way to discover the new directions you are trying to get into. 
  Of course all groups need a boundary, and in the case that immediately comes 
 to mind, the question was “What else can we be?” 
 
 People felt that was too fuzzy to get any kind of strategic work done, but 
 what happened was that it invited people into a now three year journey of 
 wayfinding together.  Which, it turns out, is a good purpose for a church.
 
 I think it’s not my job to “help people discover what they should be doing” 
 even in Open Space.  I can, however, help hold space so that people can 
 explore the fuzziness and confusion that they find themselves in AND I can 
 model behaviour of not needing to know, of avoiding premature convergence of 
 ideas and purpose, so that the innovation and wisdom and leadership at the 
 margins can come forward.  
 
 In the parlance of software developers, not knowing what to do is a feature 
 of living in this world, not a bug.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 On Jan 3, 2015, at 2:00 AM, Anne-Béatrice Duparc via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 I love how you put it in words John. I will discuss it today with the 
 caller. Indeed there is much that seems already prepared and shoulds. I 
 hope I can help them let go of it. 
 Thanks for the reminder,
 
 Message: 3
 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:56:24 +1030
 From: John Baxter via 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

I like your notions about boundaries.  One of my teachers, Douglas Brooks, a 
Rajanaka Tantra philosopher/practitioner, says, Clear boundaries; no limits!  
In yoga that means we open with spaciousness, but then we define the boundaries 
of the body, muscle and bone, before engaging in creative exploration and 
expansion.  It's practical and safe, but also part of the breath of the spirit, 
pulsing in and out.  Open space, clear boundaries, emergence, new boundaries... 
 And I agree.  The banks of a river define the flow of the current so it can be 
powerful.  And then the river redefines the banks with its power.  But without 
banks, the water flows all over the place and loses its power and intention.  
I love the ways your friends name things like purpose and culture.  Both set 
boundaries that then allow emergence that then redefines boundaries.  Lovely.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Chris Corrigan wrote:

 All good things from people named John!
 
 My friend Toke Moeller often shares the insight that “purpose is the 
 invisible leader” and I share that too.  Purpose can be stated and unstated, 
 and like everything in the realm of complexity, is always changing. 
 
 In order for emergence to happen, it happens within boundaries, and that 
 includes the emergence that later comes to redefine boundaries. My point 
 earlier was that stated purposes can help a great deal AND you need to leave 
 space for the possibility that any way you state it or understand, there is 
 always a high chance that your purpose itself may not serve, or may be at 
 odds with a different, hidden and often more powerful purpose.  
 
 This gets summed by my other friend Tim Merry who says “Culture eats strategy 
 for breakfast.”  This means that no matter how clever you are or how 
 articulate you are about purpose, goals and intentions, if you are opening 
 space, culture will show up, and it is sometimes the more powerful purpose.  
 
 This is why holding space is often terrifying.
 
 Chris 
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 12:40 PM, John Watkins johnw...@mac.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
 systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one 
 of the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
 dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of 
 the emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of 
 meaning and aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; 
 they tend to shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before 
 you gather together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the 
 limitations that we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We 
 end up with what we started with, not something with new potential and 
 power.  Goals can be helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and 
 aspirations and what I want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for 
 purpose first, and use goals only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for 
 them, BTW), or even, retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention 
 and aligned actions are envisioned and something has been accomplished.
 
 John Watkins
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:
 
 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me 
 thinking about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from 
 purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for 
 that space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 
 'purpose' which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am 
 always aware that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes 
 and ideas that no individual will ever compute (even just those within 
 themselves, let alone others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

John,

My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one of 
the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of the 
emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of meaning and 
aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; they tend to 
shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before you gather 
together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the limitations that 
we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We end up with what we 
started with, not something with new potential and power.  Goals can be 
helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and aspirations and what I 
want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for purpose first, and use goals 
only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for them, BTW), or even, 
retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention and aligned actions are 
envisioned and something has been accomplished.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:

 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me thinking 
 about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for that 
 space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 'purpose' 
 which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am always aware 
 that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes and ideas that no 
 individual will ever compute (even just those within themselves, let alone 
 others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/
 
 
 On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 Sometimes though, fuzzy purpose is really really useful.  I’ve had situations 
 where a group is really sure of what it is doing, and what it exists for and 
 yet nothing is working.  
 
 This happens a lot with mainline churches these days, many of whom are 
 certain that they can recreate the “success” they had in the 1960s.  They are 
 certainly clear on their purpose, but the harder they try, the worse they 
 make it for themselves.  
 
 And so we have run OST meetings where the purpose was unclear and fuzzy and 
 people simply proposed topics that interested them.  And it turns out that 
 that is a good way to discover the new directions you are trying to get into. 
  Of course all groups need a boundary, and in the case that immediately comes 
 to mind, the question was “What else can we be?” 
 
 People felt that was too fuzzy to get any kind of strategic work done, but 
 what happened was that it invited people into a now three year journey of 
 wayfinding together.  Which, it turns out, is a good purpose for a church.
 
 I think it’s not my job to “help people discover what they should be doing” 
 even in Open Space.  I can, however, help hold space so that people can 
 explore the fuzziness and confusion that they find themselves in AND I can 
 model behaviour of not needing to know, of avoiding premature convergence of 
 ideas and purpose, so that the innovation and wisdom and leadership at the 
 margins can come forward.  
 
 In the parlance of software developers, not knowing what to do is a feature 
 of living in this world, not a bug.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 On Jan 3, 2015, at 2:00 AM, Anne-Béatrice Duparc via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 I love how you put it in words John. I will discuss it today with the 
 caller. Indeed there is much that seems already prepared and shoulds. I 
 hope I can help them let go of it. 
 Thanks for the reminder,
 
 Message: 3
 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:56:24 +1030
 From: John Baxter via 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

I like your notions about boundaries.  One of my teachers, Douglas Brooks, a 
Rajanaka Tantra philosopher/practitioner, says, Clear boundaries; no limits!  
In yoga that means we open with spaciousness, but then we define the boundaries 
of the body, muscle and bone, before engaging in creative exploration and 
expansion.  It's practical and safe, but also part of the breath of the spirit, 
pulsing in and out.  Open space, clear boundaries, emergence, new boundaries... 
 And I agree.  The banks of a river define the flow of the current so it can be 
powerful.  And then the river redefines the banks with its power.  But without 
banks, the water flows all over the place and loses its power and intention.  
I love the ways your friends name things like purpose and culture.  Both set 
boundaries that then allow emergence that then redefines boundaries.  Lovely.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Chris Corrigan wrote:

 All good things from people named John!
 
 My friend Toke Moeller often shares the insight that “purpose is the 
 invisible leader” and I share that too.  Purpose can be stated and unstated, 
 and like everything in the realm of complexity, is always changing. 
 
 In order for emergence to happen, it happens within boundaries, and that 
 includes the emergence that later comes to redefine boundaries. My point 
 earlier was that stated purposes can help a great deal AND you need to leave 
 space for the possibility that any way you state it or understand, there is 
 always a high chance that your purpose itself may not serve, or may be at 
 odds with a different, hidden and often more powerful purpose.  
 
 This gets summed by my other friend Tim Merry who says “Culture eats strategy 
 for breakfast.”  This means that no matter how clever you are or how 
 articulate you are about purpose, goals and intentions, if you are opening 
 space, culture will show up, and it is sometimes the more powerful purpose.  
 
 This is why holding space is often terrifying.
 
 Chris 
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 12:40 PM, John Watkins johnw...@mac.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
 systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one 
 of the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
 dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of 
 the emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of 
 meaning and aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; 
 they tend to shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before 
 you gather together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the 
 limitations that we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We 
 end up with what we started with, not something with new potential and 
 power.  Goals can be helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and 
 aspirations and what I want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for 
 purpose first, and use goals only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for 
 them, BTW), or even, retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention 
 and aligned actions are envisioned and something has been accomplished.
 
 John Watkins
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:
 
 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me 
 thinking about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from 
 purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for 
 that space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 
 'purpose' which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am 
 always aware that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes 
 and ideas that no individual will ever compute (even just those within 
 themselves, let alone others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

John,

My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one of 
the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of the 
emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of meaning and 
aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; they tend to 
shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before you gather 
together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the limitations that 
we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We end up with what we 
started with, not something with new potential and power.  Goals can be 
helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and aspirations and what I 
want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for purpose first, and use goals 
only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for them, BTW), or even, 
retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention and aligned actions are 
envisioned and something has been accomplished.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:

 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me thinking 
 about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for that 
 space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 'purpose' 
 which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am always aware 
 that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes and ideas that no 
 individual will ever compute (even just those within themselves, let alone 
 others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/
 
 
 On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 Sometimes though, fuzzy purpose is really really useful.  I’ve had situations 
 where a group is really sure of what it is doing, and what it exists for and 
 yet nothing is working.  
 
 This happens a lot with mainline churches these days, many of whom are 
 certain that they can recreate the “success” they had in the 1960s.  They are 
 certainly clear on their purpose, but the harder they try, the worse they 
 make it for themselves.  
 
 And so we have run OST meetings where the purpose was unclear and fuzzy and 
 people simply proposed topics that interested them.  And it turns out that 
 that is a good way to discover the new directions you are trying to get into. 
  Of course all groups need a boundary, and in the case that immediately comes 
 to mind, the question was “What else can we be?” 
 
 People felt that was too fuzzy to get any kind of strategic work done, but 
 what happened was that it invited people into a now three year journey of 
 wayfinding together.  Which, it turns out, is a good purpose for a church.
 
 I think it’s not my job to “help people discover what they should be doing” 
 even in Open Space.  I can, however, help hold space so that people can 
 explore the fuzziness and confusion that they find themselves in AND I can 
 model behaviour of not needing to know, of avoiding premature convergence of 
 ideas and purpose, so that the innovation and wisdom and leadership at the 
 margins can come forward.  
 
 In the parlance of software developers, not knowing what to do is a feature 
 of living in this world, not a bug.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 On Jan 3, 2015, at 2:00 AM, Anne-Béatrice Duparc via OSList 
 oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote:
 
 I love how you put it in words John. I will discuss it today with the 
 caller. Indeed there is much that seems already prepared and shoulds. I 
 hope I can help them let go of it. 
 Thanks for the reminder,
 
 Message: 3
 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:56:24 +1030
 From: John Baxter via 

Re: [OSList] First open space, advices needed :)

[John Watkins via OSList]

Chris,

I like your notions about boundaries.  One of my teachers, Douglas Brooks, a 
Rajanaka Tantra philosopher/practitioner, says, Clear boundaries; no limits!  
In yoga that means we open with spaciousness, but then we define the boundaries 
of the body, muscle and bone, before engaging in creative exploration and 
expansion.  It's practical and safe, but also part of the breath of the spirit, 
pulsing in and out.  Open space, clear boundaries, emergence, new boundaries... 
 And I agree.  The banks of a river define the flow of the current so it can be 
powerful.  And then the river redefines the banks with its power.  But without 
banks, the water flows all over the place and loses its power and intention.  
I love the ways your friends name things like purpose and culture.  Both set 
boundaries that then allow emergence that then redefines boundaries.  Lovely.

John Watkins

On Jan 4, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Chris Corrigan wrote:

 All good things from people named John!
 
 My friend Toke Moeller often shares the insight that “purpose is the 
 invisible leader” and I share that too.  Purpose can be stated and unstated, 
 and like everything in the realm of complexity, is always changing. 
 
 In order for emergence to happen, it happens within boundaries, and that 
 includes the emergence that later comes to redefine boundaries. My point 
 earlier was that stated purposes can help a great deal AND you need to leave 
 space for the possibility that any way you state it or understand, there is 
 always a high chance that your purpose itself may not serve, or may be at 
 odds with a different, hidden and often more powerful purpose.  
 
 This gets summed by my other friend Tim Merry who says “Culture eats strategy 
 for breakfast.”  This means that no matter how clever you are or how 
 articulate you are about purpose, goals and intentions, if you are opening 
 space, culture will show up, and it is sometimes the more powerful purpose.  
 
 This is why holding space is often terrifying.
 
 Chris 
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 12:40 PM, John Watkins johnw...@mac.com wrote:
 
 John,
 
 My experience is that open spaces (and open systems) are purpose-seeking 
 systems, and getting clarity through emergence about purpose is probably one 
 of the most important aspects of people opening space together.  Purpose is 
 dynamic and powerfully grounding in a sense of essence or the being-ness of 
 the emergent group; it's like a strange attractor for the emergence of 
 meaning and aligned action.  Goals, on the other hand, are inert and static; 
 they tend to shut down rather than open up space.  If you set goals before 
 you gather together and make meaning, often all they do is reinforce the 
 limitations that we mistake for our goals, to cite one of my teachers.  We 
 end up with what we started with, not something with new potential and 
 power.  Goals can be helpful, though I prefer to think about intentions and 
 aspirations and what I want to accomplish instead.  So, I would go for 
 purpose first, and use goals only as a crutch (this is a good purpose for 
 them, BTW), or even, retrospectively, once purpose and meaning and intention 
 and aligned actions are envisioned and something has been accomplished.
 
 John Watkins
 
 On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:37 AM, John Baxter via OSList wrote:
 
 I feel Chris like we have seemingly conflicting suggestions, but might be 
 talking about different things.
 
 Reading about games recently (McGonigal's Reality is Broken) got me 
 thinking about goals.  And specifically, how goals are different from 
 purpose.
 
 Don't know whether this will help but here goes.  I am only just thinking 
 this through so it is not well tested.
 
 Goals are an element of a good game.  They are almost part of the rules of 
 the game, like an agreement - something that we buy in to as part of 
 participation.
 
 The most productive spaces I have been part of have had a clear goal for 
 that space (that is understood and agreed to by all).
 
 I haven't used the word 'goal' to describe this before and maybe it is not 
 the best one, but it feels right to me to use a different word than 
 'purpose' which always seem in reality to be impossible to pin down.  I am 
 always aware that there is a broad web of different intents and purposes 
 and ideas that no individual will ever compute (even just those within 
 themselves, let alone others!), that will always be fuzzy.
 
 Personally, having a solid 'goal' for a space is a fundamental part of 
 holding that space, any space.  It need not be written down, but I need to 
 feel it, and ideally it is as transparent as possible in the invitation and 
 for participants (part of the social contract of participation).
 
 Cheers
 
 
 John Baxter
 Cocreation Consultant  ​Co​Create Adelaide Facilitator
 jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com
 0405 447 829​ | ​@jsbaxter_
 
 Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City 
 Grill!
 Summary and links: 

Re: [OSList] Are You a frequent Lurker on OSLIST?

[John Watkins via OSList]

Daniel,

Game on.

I am a lurker and sometimes contributor to the OS Listserve.  I am always 
fascinated by the conversation and learn tons.  But since I am not a regular 
OST facilitator (though have led some open space meetings over time), I often 
feel I am not really qualified to contribute.  I am a huge fan of, reader 
about, and user of open systems, complex adaptive systems, or emergence and 
pattern formation, and network development theory, as those apply to social 
systems.  I do try to use those theories in my practical work, often behind the 
scenes as conceptual framing because so many people are either intimidated by 
those theories or they are explicitly and vocally anti-theory (not realizing we 
all operate on theories all the time).  So I sometimes comment about those 
ideas here on the listserve.

But I am always here!  Keep the work and the words flowing.

John Watkins

On Dec 10, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList wrote:

 Some of us were on a call on Tuesday, talking about Open Spaceand 
 OSLIST
 
 ...the participants at the time were
 
 Chuni Li
 Daniel Mezick
 Karen Davis
 Linda Stevenson
 Lucas Cioffi
 Paul Levy
 Peggy Holman
 Skye Hirst
 Suzanne Daigle
 Tricia Chirumbole
 Harold Shinsato
 
 We discussed OSLIST culture, and how the culture of OSLIST may not actually 
 be very easy to figure out...
 
 ...we talked about how this list has hundreds upon hundreds of members, with 
 just 25 to 45 people (give or take) who post or reply with anything close to 
 a regular frequency, and how some speak with highly authoritative voices.
 
 ...we talked a bit about how the culture of OSLIST might actually be kind of 
 intimidating for new people to participate in.
 
 
 The Game
 
 We have no idea how many regular lurkers are in the group...we talked about 
 trying to find out.
 
 
 So: if you are a regular lurker, someone who examines these OSLIST threads 
 periodically but does not actively participate ...  are you willing to play a 
 little game? 
 
 
 The Lurker Game: you are invited to play...
 
 1. ...The goal is to collectively get some idea of how many of us on the list 
 are regular lurkers.
 
 2. ...The rules are: 
 If you consider yourself a regular lurker, consider opting in to the game, 
 by replying...
 If you reply, absolutely nothing further will be asked of you. All you are 
 doing is identifying yourself as someone who lurks. That's it. 
 3. ...We'll all track the progress by watching the thread, and seeing how 
 many reply over time. 
 
 4. ...Participation is opt-in. 
 
 
 
 To participate, just hit [Reply List] and enter hey and press [Enter] 
 ...or...
 
 ... (optionally) just say whatever you might want to say, instead
 
 We have no idea what might happen next; let's see what develops. 
 
 Thanks!
 Daniel
 
 -- 
 Daniel Mezick, President
 New Technology Solutions Inc.
 (203) 915 7248 (cell)
 Bio. Blog. Twitter. 
 Examine my new book:Â  The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager.
 Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching.
 Explore the Agile Boston Community. 
 ___
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 To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
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Re: [OSList] Are You a frequent Lurker on OSLIST?

[John Watkins via OSList]

Daniel,

Game on.

I am a lurker and sometimes contributor to the OS Listserve.  I am always 
fascinated by the conversation and learn tons.  But since I am not a regular 
OST facilitator (though have led some open space meetings over time), I often 
feel I am not really qualified to contribute.  I am a huge fan of, reader 
about, and user of open systems, complex adaptive systems, or emergence and 
pattern formation, and network development theory, as those apply to social 
systems.  I do try to use those theories in my practical work, often behind the 
scenes as conceptual framing because so many people are either intimidated by 
those theories or they are explicitly and vocally anti-theory (not realizing we 
all operate on theories all the time).  So I sometimes comment about those 
ideas here on the listserve.

But I am always here!  Keep the work and the words flowing.

John Watkins

On Dec 10, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList wrote:

 Some of us were on a call on Tuesday, talking about Open Spaceand 
 OSLIST
 
 ...the participants at the time were
 
 Chuni Li
 Daniel Mezick
 Karen Davis
 Linda Stevenson
 Lucas Cioffi
 Paul Levy
 Peggy Holman
 Skye Hirst
 Suzanne Daigle
 Tricia Chirumbole
 Harold Shinsato
 
 We discussed OSLIST culture, and how the culture of OSLIST may not actually 
 be very easy to figure out...
 
 ...we talked about how this list has hundreds upon hundreds of members, with 
 just 25 to 45 people (give or take) who post or reply with anything close to 
 a regular frequency, and how some speak with highly authoritative voices.
 
 ...we talked a bit about how the culture of OSLIST might actually be kind of 
 intimidating for new people to participate in.
 
 
 The Game
 
 We have no idea how many regular lurkers are in the group...we talked about 
 trying to find out.
 
 
 So: if you are a regular lurker, someone who examines these OSLIST threads 
 periodically but does not actively participate ...  are you willing to play a 
 little game? 
 
 
 The Lurker Game: you are invited to play...
 
 1. ...The goal is to collectively get some idea of how many of us on the list 
 are regular lurkers.
 
 2. ...The rules are: 
 If you consider yourself a regular lurker, consider opting in to the game, 
 by replying...
 If you reply, absolutely nothing further will be asked of you. All you are 
 doing is identifying yourself as someone who lurks. That's it. 
 3. ...We'll all track the progress by watching the thread, and seeing how 
 many reply over time. 
 
 4. ...Participation is opt-in. 
 
 
 
 To participate, just hit [Reply List] and enter hey and press [Enter] 
 ...or...
 
 ... (optionally) just say whatever you might want to say, instead
 
 We have no idea what might happen next; let's see what develops. 
 
 Thanks!
 Daniel
 
 -- 
 Daniel Mezick, President
 New Technology Solutions Inc.
 (203) 915 7248 (cell)
 Bio. Blog. Twitter. 
 Examine my new book:Â  The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager.
 Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching.
 Explore the Agile Boston Community. 
 ___
 OSList mailing list
 To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
 To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
 To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
 http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
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Re: [OSList] Are You a frequent Lurker on OSLIST?

[John Watkins via OSList]

Daniel,

Game on.

I am a lurker and sometimes contributor to the OS Listserve.  I am always 
fascinated by the conversation and learn tons.  But since I am not a regular 
OST facilitator (though have led some open space meetings over time), I often 
feel I am not really qualified to contribute.  I am a huge fan of, reader 
about, and user of open systems, complex adaptive systems, or emergence and 
pattern formation, and network development theory, as those apply to social 
systems.  I do try to use those theories in my practical work, often behind the 
scenes as conceptual framing because so many people are either intimidated by 
those theories or they are explicitly and vocally anti-theory (not realizing we 
all operate on theories all the time).  So I sometimes comment about those 
ideas here on the listserve.

But I am always here!  Keep the work and the words flowing.

John Watkins

On Dec 10, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList wrote:

 Some of us were on a call on Tuesday, talking about Open Spaceand 
 OSLIST
 
 ...the participants at the time were
 
 Chuni Li
 Daniel Mezick
 Karen Davis
 Linda Stevenson
 Lucas Cioffi
 Paul Levy
 Peggy Holman
 Skye Hirst
 Suzanne Daigle
 Tricia Chirumbole
 Harold Shinsato
 
 We discussed OSLIST culture, and how the culture of OSLIST may not actually 
 be very easy to figure out...
 
 ...we talked about how this list has hundreds upon hundreds of members, with 
 just 25 to 45 people (give or take) who post or reply with anything close to 
 a regular frequency, and how some speak with highly authoritative voices.
 
 ...we talked a bit about how the culture of OSLIST might actually be kind of 
 intimidating for new people to participate in.
 
 
 The Game
 
 We have no idea how many regular lurkers are in the group...we talked about 
 trying to find out.
 
 
 So: if you are a regular lurker, someone who examines these OSLIST threads 
 periodically but does not actively participate ...  are you willing to play a 
 little game? 
 
 
 The Lurker Game: you are invited to play...
 
 1. ...The goal is to collectively get some idea of how many of us on the list 
 are regular lurkers.
 
 2. ...The rules are: 
 If you consider yourself a regular lurker, consider opting in to the game, 
 by replying...
 If you reply, absolutely nothing further will be asked of you. All you are 
 doing is identifying yourself as someone who lurks. That's it. 
 3. ...We'll all track the progress by watching the thread, and seeing how 
 many reply over time. 
 
 4. ...Participation is opt-in. 
 
 
 
 To participate, just hit [Reply List] and enter hey and press [Enter] 
 ...or...
 
 ... (optionally) just say whatever you might want to say, instead
 
 We have no idea what might happen next; let's see what develops. 
 
 Thanks!
 Daniel
 
 -- 
 Daniel Mezick, President
 New Technology Solutions Inc.
 (203) 915 7248 (cell)
 Bio. Blog. Twitter. 
 Examine my new book:Â  The Culture Game : Tools for the Agile Manager.
 Explore Agile Team Training and Coaching.
 Explore the Agile Boston Community. 
 ___
 OSList mailing list
 To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
 To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
 To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
 http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org

___
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org