[ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth

[elizabeth mcalpine]

Thanks to whoever sent the transcript.  

 
I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with my 
comments and request for help to get the message across.
arrgghh!
 
Its just too much to bear sometimes.
 
Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were 
chatting after doing some work.   She has a 15 yr old.
Horrible, violent birth (the usual)  After 
about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened to 
her.  That helped her a bit but she still grieves.   No 
more children followed.
 
In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth 
stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or 
something) 
 
Oh and here's another.   Discussing NMAP, 
violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and 
sundry
one woman at work was listening so intently and I 
thought, "hello, there's something here".
On asking, it turned out that her third child, at 
full dilatation had cord prolapse.  Big emergency, she said.  Upside 
down and then hauled out with forceps.
She was advised my a very wise woman, to provide 
excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological recovery caused 
by damage due to forceps.
Very thankful she did that, because as a toddler it 
helped him develop normally.
He's 18 now, but has a very 'dark' side. ie 
suicidal thoughts.
 
Liz Mc

Re: [ozmidwifery] Victorian Election Action

[elizabeth mcalpine]

Title: Victorian Election Action



Justine,
 
I live in Brunswick.   
 
After reading the transcript of Dimensions, and 
Aviva'a story - I am boiling!!!
Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Leslie 
  Cc: OzMid List ; Joy 
  Johnston ; Sally-Anne Brown 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:57 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Victorian Election 
  Action
  This message is of particular interest 
  to Victorians, sorry to everyone else!!Hello AllThe time 
  has come to stop talking about change and get going with some 
  ACTION.The Victorian election is nigh and the Labor only have a 
  minority government.  John Thwaites the Vic Health Minister has refused 
  to meet with the Maternity Coalition over reform and NMAP.  He is also 
  aware of the Nurses Registration Board being able to de-register midwives who 
  practice without PI insurance, and at the same time has refused to assist 
  IPM’s with PI.It is now time to show Labor we mean business and demand 
  to be heard.  The Greens want to make NMAP a feature of their health 
  policy launch so we need as many women as possible to show the Bracks Gov 
  their is votes in this.  If you can do one thing to support NMAP please 
  do this.  At the moment it looks like it will be on Nov 21, but I will 
  have definite details in the next couple of days.  (Any midwives out 
  there can you please commit to bringing a few clients/former clients with you, 
  also Tina we need the Bmidders!!!)If you are in the following 
  electorates I suggest you write a letter to your local member and to Thwaites 
  saying how unwise it is not to listen to women and their familes and how you 
  intend to vote accordingly.  Should people want/need a sample letter to 
  base their around I am happy to help.The Bracks Government is 
  focussing on the following seats in Metro MelbMitcham, 
  including the suburbs of Mitcham and BlackburnBentleigh, 
  including the suburbs of Bentleigh and MoorabbinEltham, 
  including the suburbs of Lower Plenty and ResearchNarrewarren 
  South including the suburbs of Hallam and Narrewarran 
  SouthCranbourne including the suburbs of Frankston North, 
  Carrum Downs and CranbourneThe inner city seats are also very 
  important re preference deals and includeMelbourne including 
  the suburbs of Flemington, ParkvilleRichmond including the 
  suburbs of Clifton Hill, Fitzroy and RichmondBrunswick 
  including the suburbs of Moreland, BrunswickNortrhcote 
  including the suburbs of Northcote, Fairfield and  Thornbury, In 
  solidarity Justine 
Caines

Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

[Justine Caines]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa



Hey Jo and All

In all our lobbying at a state and federal level, we, (Barb Vernon and I) have come to the realisation that the dudes resp for insurance (state based insurance authorities) and the fed minster have not a clue on the “risk profile” of promoting specialist obstetric care as the norm.  To them birth that is not in specialist hands is “risky”, we use the GP/specialist analagy a lot.  Where else can a woman just decide to use specialist resources, with no medical indication?  Oh I have a sore chest, off to the Cardiologist!.  Midwives are the primary carer of pregnant women and it is them that should decide when on consultation is appropriate FOR ALL WOMEN.

What insurers need to understand (or be made to by us) is that utilising a practitioner that is an expert in the abnormal will skew the care in that direction, when we know 80 odd % of women can be normal, then why use the experts in the abnormal!!! Yes the amazing medical lobby comes in here, but things are in such a state I believe we can start to be effective.

Also the line re VBAC is total bollocks (I know you know this), you need to hit them straight back with examples like the following

We know there is between a 1-2% chance of spontaneous abortion after amniocentesis, however this test is offered routinely to a group of pregnant women.  What has been determined here is a cost benefit analysis, a 1% chance of miscarriage to determine foetal abnormality in a group of women with a greater danger of such.  The benefit (certainly in their eyes not mine!!) outweighs the risk.  I would certainly say that the 0.2% risk of uterine rupture far outweighs the danger of a repeat c/s!!!

Hope it helps

In solidarity

Justine


-the problem that we are facing is that the 1% (which in fact according to the most recent Australian study is in fact 0.2%) chance of rupture is seen as too high a risk for insurance companies.  It is this reason that places like Flinders Medical centre in SA is refusing vbac to the birth centre (until now women have been able to access the amazing support and understanding of some of the most wonderful midwives).  The formal reasons given to me by Flinders reads:
 
"...the Department Meeting when the decisions were made was that the increased safety provided to such women by birth in Labour and Delivery Suite under the care of an obstetric team and with continuous electronic fetal heart rate monitoring will outweigh other concerns..."
 
It goes on to say if the situation arises where a woman states she will take full responsibility for any adverse outcome which occur as a result of her decision, such undertakings can not be binding to that woman at a later date.
 
This situation and the proposal to increase the insurance of those who practice 'riskier procedures' such as vbac is blatant manipulation by lawyers and insurance companies of medical care providers.  they are being held almost at ransom (and I am not just referring to obs, it included mw as we all know).
 
I am battling a head ache at the moment so I cant really go into this too much, but is there any mw or associate who is well versed in the medico-legal issues that can shed any light on this? 
Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8388 6918
birth with trust, faith & love...
- Original Message - 
From: Lynne Staff   
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

What you have done with this email Justine, is to very nicely and succinctly put 'risk' in perspective - something that not many do regarding uterine rupture. 
- Original Message - 
From: Justine Caines   
To: OzMid List   
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa


Hey Jo

Love reading your posts, you have the right idea!!

Why would VBAC be seen as riskier?  I would think a 1% chance of uterine rupture would be preferable ‘risk’ to a c/s anyway?  Then again evidence doesn’t play much of a role does it!

Take care

Justine



I have often thought that those who want elective cs for no medical reasoning then it should be considered 'cosmetic' and should be treated like cosmetic surgeryYOU pay!  Perhaps the cover should be more costly for those who elect surgery?  The argument that cases of FTP and CPD would increase: but that would be obvious and the medicos would have  allot of explaining to do to justify it.  
There will always be loop holes for women and doctors to get their sections, but it could be a deterrent.  Elective CS cost insurance companies thousands of possibly unnecessary dollars.  It should be structured like car insurance: those who live in high crime areas have to pay more- therefore those who elect unnecessary surgery should pay more.  
There should be a strict criteria which allows emergency cs as exempt from charges.  As I said before the chances are the 'emerg' cases will increase but they are leaving themselves

[ozmidwifery] Victorian Election Action

[Justine Caines]

Title: Victorian Election Action




This message is of particular interest to Victorians, sorry to everyone else!!


Hello All

The time has come to stop talking about change and get going with some ACTION.

The Victorian election is nigh and the Labor only have a minority government.  John Thwaites the Vic Health Minister has refused to meet with the Maternity Coalition over reform and NMAP.  He is also aware of the Nurses Registration Board being able to de-register midwives who practice without PI insurance, and at the same time has refused to assist IPM’s with PI.

It is now time to show Labor we mean business and demand to be heard.  The Greens want to make NMAP a feature of their health policy launch so we need as many women as possible to show the Bracks Gov their is votes in this.  If you can do one thing to support NMAP please do this.  At the moment it looks like it will be on Nov 21, but I will have definite details in the next couple of days.  (Any midwives out there can you please commit to bringing a few clients/former clients with you, also Tina we need the Bmidders!!!)

If you are in the following electorates I suggest you write a letter to your local member and to Thwaites saying how unwise it is not to listen to women and their familes and how you intend to vote accordingly.  Should people want/need a sample letter to base their around I am happy to help.


The Bracks Government is focussing on the following seats in Metro Melb

Mitcham, including the suburbs of Mitcham and Blackburn

Bentleigh, including the suburbs of Bentleigh and Moorabbin

Eltham, including the suburbs of Lower Plenty and Research

Narrewarren South including the suburbs of Hallam and Narrewarran South

Cranbourne including the suburbs of Frankston North, Carrum Downs and Cranbourne

The inner city seats are also very important re preference deals and include

Melbourne including the suburbs of Flemington, Parkville

Richmond including the suburbs of Clifton Hill, Fitzroy and Richmond

Brunswick including the suburbs of Moreland, Brunswick

Nortrhcote including the suburbs of Northcote, Fairfield and  Thornbury, 

In solidarity 

Justine Caines

Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

[Terry Garnons-Williams]

Up until a year ago, I worked as a homebirth midwife with women who were for
the most part, into challenging themselves, seeking wisdom and personal
growth thru birthing their infants - and who were entusiastically supported
by me and other 'homebirthers'.  I have now taken on employment in hospital
environments - partly (and there are many reasons why I have done this)
because 99% of women who birth do so in hospital, and as I truely believe
that midwifery means being with women, I have crossed over to explore and
discover what 'other' women are up to...

Therre are many who choose elective sections, some who, on the advice of
their specialist/professional experts choose to have their children
delivered via their abdomen.  Many do not wish to actively take part in the
birth of their children - many don't even want to visualise the process, or
to feel it.  Some seem happy with their choices, others do not and my heart
breaks.  Too late! Too late, I cry - if only I could have been there for
them when they first discovered their journey to motherhood - if only I
could have been there when they were being influenced about their womanhood
and their journey through to motherhood! If only...

I can only do what I can do to support them, honour them  and praise them
for any little snippet of strength and personal power.  From little things,
big things grow...

Keep talking; sharing and pushing for change - at every opportunity and in
whatever situation you find yourselves.  That's what I try to do, with the
hope that one day women will be able to reclaim their birthing
rites/rights - with confidence and enthusiasm! And until then, we need to
support women when they choose sections - cuz I've seen what happens when
sections are denied and the forceps are brought out - it ain't at all
pretty... Terry.
- Original Message -
From: "Margie Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa


> While I am passionate about women giving birth, vaginally and without
intervention (and particularly at home), I've got lots of very mixed
feelings about elective caesareans. On the one hand I see them as the
ultimate in intervention and therefore anathema to my ordinary stance. Also
as something which our community is 'selling' to women. That women often
take the elective Caesaean as a poorly informed choice. That these women are
sadly missing out on something wonderful and sacred. That it is an unfair
use of resources. That we are not given colostomy bags because we can't be
bothered pooing. That it should not be there as a choice. That it would be
better if women were supported through there worries and fears about giving
birth. That it would be wonderful if women  stopped wanting/needing all that
time managed 'control' which is cited as a reason for choosing an elective
casarean.
>
> On the other hand  given the general lack of one to one midwifery care
and  emotional/psychological support available to women and the routine
scare-mongering way in which vaginal births are 'managed', women are not, in
the main,  well supported to give birth to their babies. I wonder about
links between previous sexual abuse and elective choice.  About sexually
transmitted diseases (which are still socially taboo) yet very prevalent.
About family stories which go back generations and inculcate fear.
>
> If I have been abused letting go and trusting my body may be difficult. If
I have genital herpes would I want the uncertainty of a lesion at birth time
and the need to explain to everyone why my vaginal birth plans didn't
happen. If I grew up on stories of grandmother's death in child birth and
mother's 'need' for  caesarean  and aunty's haemorrhage would I doubt the
birth process.
>
> As a doula I meet women with all these dilemmas. And my  should(n't)
mentality  about elective caesareans gets all waffly and unclear.  It is not
just in birth that things are awry and each woman faces things the way she
sees best for her. Some people face amazing challenges and over come fears
while others choose not to put themselves way way out of ordinary comfort
zones. I can only say for me what is my way forward.
>
> I can also recognise these kinds of issues and respect, love and support
women: to be clear about what they want, to challenge themselves  (if they
want to) and to be non-judgemental about different ways of being.
>
> What I think SHOULD be the case is that women have  midwives, doulas,
friends and services to support them and encourage them in their own
personal birth journey. Perhaps then we might begin to tackle some of the
broader issues which birth puts us in contact with.
>
> Not sure I've put all this very clearly  - I keep seeing the grey while
still veering from black and white.
>
> Margie
>
>
>
> At Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:22:19 +1030,
> Jo & Dean Bainbridge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I have often thought that those who want elective cs for no
> > medical r

[ozmidwifery] not good enough

[Jo & Dean Bainbridge]

I have just read the transcript from the ABC (thanx 
Tania) and I am just going to say that there is one point that needs to be 
made.  It says "JENNY GAMBLE: We have 24 per cent caesarean 
section rates.Let's face it.Things aren't going all along 
swimmingly.SHELLY HORTON: Maternity staff defend themselves saying they 
don't have time to counsel women, especially if there's an emergency during the 
birth.JENNY GAMBLE: There's nothing to stop one midwife speaking 
quietly, calmly, clearly to the woman.So even in the midst of a rush to 
get a baby delivered quickly in a dire emergency -- that the woman still has 
some sort of emotional support to get her through that.  

According to the SA pregnancy outcomes unit; the 
most common reason for emergency cs is failure to progress.  Now really, 
can anyone tell me that in this situation there is no time to talk calmly to a 
woman about what is going on?  To give her reassurance and kindness?  
If there is no time or no staff to do it then I call for the arguments against 
doulas to address this issue.  If a doctor is too busy and the midwife is 
run off her feet or being stressed by ob staff or what ever, i can guarantee you 
the woman's partner is no real fit state to reassure his wife/partner...he has 
just heard the words 'emergency' and he has begun to panic too.  WHO ELSE 
IS LEFT other than the woman who is exhausted, confused, worried for her child, 
scared for herself, sick of labouring as she has been told she has 'failed' so 
why bother to continue trying.
You have all read Rhonda's email today and shed a 
silent tear for her pain.  I know her pain. I live it every day too.  
How do I explain to my first born that their birth was the worse experience I 
have ever been through?  The reasons is because there is no on there who 
cared for me...my fears, my concerns.  Women don't usually vocalise it too 
well as it is hard to put into words and the mother instinct has kicked in and 
you are concerned for the baby too; you shut off how you feelings cause it is 
too darn scary to go there ALONE.  People who have shoved their hands up 
your vagina and hurt you repeatedly for the last 12 hours, those people who 
barge into the room and stand there tutting under their breath and saying things 
like "if the mother isn't X by X o'clock call for a cs", they are the ones who 
are there to make you feel better?  Nah, no thanks, they didn't care about 
how it felt before so I am not going to tell them I am scared!  It is the 
run of mill day for them... done this emg cs thing a billion times, no trouble, 
no sweat, have this baby out soon, WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW ABOUT HOW I 
FEEL???
 
I think the wisest thing any woman should do in the 
current system, is to have their own trusted birth support (be it a private 
midwife or a doula).  the sad fact is that not everyone is going to get 
treated with respect and dignity, until these things become available (through 
initiatives like NMAP) then birth will be a terrifying thing.  I am not 
scared of birth; I am scared of how I would be treated.  I am glad that my 
last Childs birth was with a known and trusted, admired mw and so his birth has 
been able to fill the blanks of the first.  Just for interest, the elements 
that gave me the most humiliation and sadness in my first baby was the midwives 
postnatal overnight.  I call them vampires.  If anyone wants to know 
why, check out the CARES SA web site http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/caressa 
and look up birth stories.
 
god, now my head really hurts.  I am not sure 
how much I can take of the ozmid list these days.no offence, but my 
heart breaking is a too familiar sound at the moment.
Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 
08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith & love...

Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

[Jo & Dean Bainbridge]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa



-the problem that we are facing is that the 1% 
(which in fact according to the most recent Australian study is in fact 0.2%) 
chance of rupture is seen as too high a risk for 
insurance companies.  It is this reason that places like Flinders Medical 
centre in SA is refusing vbac to the birth centre (until now women have been 
able to access the amazing support and understanding of some of the most 
wonderful midwives).  The formal reasons given to me by Flinders 
reads:
 
"...the Department Meeting when the decisions were 
made was that the increased safety provided to such women by birth in Labour and 
Delivery Suite under the care of an obstetric team and with continuous 
electronic fetal heart rate monitoring will outweigh other 
concerns..."
 
It goes on to say if the situation arises where a 
woman states she will take full responsibility for any adverse outcome 
which occur as a result of her decision, such undertakings can not be 
binding to that woman at a later date.
 
This situation and the proposal to increase the 
insurance of those who practice 'riskier procedures' such as vbac is 
blatant manipulation by lawyers and insurance companies of medical care 
providers.  they are being held almost at ransom (and I am not just 
referring to obs, it included mw as we all know).
 
I am battling a head ache at the moment so I cant 
really go into this too much, but is there any mw or associate who is well 
versed in the medico-legal issues that can shed any light on 
this? 
Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
8388 6918birth with trust, faith & love...

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lynne 
  Staff 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:38 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa
  
  What you have done with this email Justine, is to 
  very nicely and succinctly put 'risk' in perspective - something that not 
  many do regarding uterine rupture. 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:58 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

Hey JoLove reading your posts, 
  you have the right idea!!Why would VBAC be seen as riskier? 
   I would think a 1% chance of uterine rupture would be preferable 
  ‘risk’ to a c/s anyway?  Then again evidence doesn’t play much of a 
  role does it!Take careJustineI have often thought that those who want elective cs 
  for no medical reasoning then it should be considered 'cosmetic' and 
  should be treated like cosmetic surgeryYOU pay!  Perhaps the 
  cover should be more costly for those who elect surgery?  The 
  argument that cases of FTP and CPD would increase: but that would be 
  obvious and the medicos would have  allot of explaining to do to 
  justify it.  There will always be loop holes for women and 
  doctors to get their sections, but it could be a deterrent.  Elective 
  CS cost insurance companies thousands of possibly unnecessary dollars. 
   It should be structured like car insurance: those who live in high 
  crime areas have to pay more- therefore those who elect unnecessary 
  surgery should pay more.  There should be a strict criteria which 
  allows emergency cs as exempt from charges.  As I said before the 
  chances are the 'emerg' cases will increase but they are leaving 
  themselves open for close scrutiny.What concerns me about 
  insurance companies power over care is that there are reports that doctors 
  who are 'allowing' vbac will be facing higher insurance costs due to the 
  increase risks.call me biased but THAT IS CAUSE FOR 
  CONCERN!well,  there is my 5c worth (about all I have 
  got!)Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith 
  & love...

Re: [ozmidwifery] PTSD was New Dimensions Tonight on ABC

[DebSlater]

Sheila Kitzinger's Birth Crisis Network was set up as a telephone "counselling" service for women with PTSD resulting from childbirth.

I went to a workshop on this at her house in Oxfordshire some years ago - it was just becoming an acknowledged issue in the UK then (as opposed to PND).  There was a wonderful psychologist based at the John Radcliffe in Oxford that specialised in PTSD resulting from childbirth, and who worked with SK on this.  She set up a debriefing service (Birth Afterthoughts) by which women (and men) could meet with a midwife, and go through their notes of their labour and birth (no matter how long ago) if they felt it might help them.  There are now several similar services throughout the UK.

Debbie Slater
Perth, WA

Re: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the "Staus of Women"

[Mrs joanne m fisher]

Well done Megan
Cheers,Joanne.
- Original Message -
From: "Larry & Megan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the "Staus of Women"


> Hi all
> today myself and another consumer had a lengthy appointment with S.A.'s
> Minister for the Status of Women. She was very interested in NMAP and what
> we had to say. She is going to invite us to a number of other meetings so
as
> we can spread the word to other women and their various groups. She sees
> this as something that she needs to get behind and support.
> So, how about every Minister for the Staus of Women has a visit from
someone
> who can educate them on NMAP?
> It seems people are interested and willing to help, we just need to tell
> them it exists.
>
> Lets go out and educate,
> Megan.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Whew, Rhonda. 
I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose 
baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, 
into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, 
more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood 
gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a 
tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's 
stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped 
every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, 
at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her, and she repeats as she 
recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, 
November, 2002. 
...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our 
future.
 
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact


  
  

   
  Well Megan,
   
  I guess the only way to really understand is this..
   
  I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has 
  happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)
   
  

  


  
  
    IncrediMail - 
Email has finally evolved - Click 
Here 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

[Mrs joanne m fisher]

I too, think that is an excellant idea Marilyn
Cheers, Joanne
BTW have you ended up finding a place to work?  
- Original Message - 
From: "Jennifer Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?


> re: a portfolio of caseload working arrangements 
> 
> Marilyn, what a great idea!
> 
> I think the seed has been planted in many BMid students who never would 
> have considered independent practice before they began the course.  
> It's great to hear from Jessica that grad dip progams are also 
> nurturing continuity of caregiver, etc.
> 
> Love, Jen   
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, November 4, 2002 7:07 am
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
> 
> > As always Tina you say it all so well. I think we should generate 
> > a portfolio of caseload working arrangements that have worked or 
> > are working well for midwives on the list so that those who like 
> > the theory of caseload but are apprehensive about the practice in 
> > their lives, can see the reality of the situation.
> > 
> > We can also learn from practices that burn midwives out and/or 
> > are unsatisfactory to women. 
> > 
> > Obviously there are probably as many variations of practice 
> > arrangements as there are midwives however, for those just 
> > branching out some well worn paths could be helpful. I think if 
> > midwives realised that (hopefully) caseload could include 
> > everything from one birth per month to five or six births a month 
> > depending on the individual midwife / group of midwives.  
> > 
> > marilyn
> 
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Oh, my, golly, gee, what can I say? Under your circumstances, I don't 
know what I'd feel. 
Hugs to you,
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact


  
  

   
  Oh so sorry to be like that but gee - my first was an emergency c/s 
  at 27 weeks and the second was 24 hours of abuse by the most horrible ob 
  on the face of the earth while in labour and then after the 24 
  hour of emotional torture the physical assult of a brutal c/s 
  which left me stapled up crooked and bruised for 10 weeks.
  I guess sleeping seemed a better option to me.
  For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet 
  wonderful birth is just as much a fairy tale.
   
  Rhonda  
   
  ---Original 
Message---
  

  


  
  
  __

Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

[leanne wynne]

Hi All,
I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal Community 
Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager who 
allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An Aboriginal 
Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on 
call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either in 
the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home 
and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully supportive 
of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women need 
us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take 
'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet.
In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour 
shifts are not an option.
Leanne.


From: "Debby M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 +




_
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! 
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--- Begin Message ---

I have recently been corresponding with a friend of mine who is an obstetrician.  He supports midwifery models of care, particularly those that offer integrated choice so that midwives and obstetricians can work together.
He did state to me however that he believes one of the great obstacles to such models is the reluctance of most midwives to work other than an 8 hour shift, and to possibly have to do away with family time and holidays and to be called out at odd hours to attend births.  
I am sure there are probably some out there that do like the straight forwardness of shifts however I would be interested to hear the opinion of you ladies (and gentlemen) about your experience of the dedication of midwives when they are expected to provide ongoing antenatal, birth and postnatal support - outside the normal 8 hour shift,  as my gut feeling is that the majority of midwives would love the opportunity to be able to fully use their skills in the support and care of pregnant and birthing women without unnecessary "guidance" or interferrence.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC

[Jenny Balnaves]

Thank you for your reply Lynne. Unfortunately, the model of care where I 
practice is 95% medical, so consequently, options are rather limited. All 
obstetricians here would veto the choice of VBAC...litigation being foremost 
in their minds. One GP incorporates Team Midwifery into his practice, but 
even there we are still "under his banner" so to speak.

A midwifery model of care has been bandied about for many years here. This 
has been met with great resistance from the obstetricians who view the model 
as being one where they get to clean up the mess as one so delicatly put 
it.(We should wish!)

This particular woman has been advised that the only option was caesarian 
section. She has seen her obstetrician privately throughout her pregnancy 
and as a consequence, our only 'access' to her is when she was admitted as I 
said at 36 weeks gestation, although the cry..."Its never too late" could be 
used in this instance.
She is certainly aware of her options though, being advised by the midwives 
who have met her since her admission.

Unfortunately, because she would have to change hospitals (none of the other 
obstetricians would take on her care at this stage, in support of the other 
obstetrician), it is all too much of a bother to have to address the issues 
of booking else where etc etc apparently, and woe betide the midwife who is 
found culpable of directing this woman to an alternative hospital, let alone 
another doctor!

Hope this is not too long winded.
Regards,

Jenny http://graphics.hotmail.com/emrose.gif"; width=12>



From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:03:48 +1000

Hi Jenny - How does this woman feel about the decision to have another 
caesarean? Does she know that she is entitled to a second (and third...) 
opinion? Or will she be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire 
with the other opinions she seeks (if all of the obs are like-minded)? And 
not just obs either. I remember many years ago at a homebirth meeting, a 
woman approached me who had had three caesareans and asked me whether I 
thought she could labour and give birth vaginally, and I said "No, it is 
unlikely". In my ignorance and naievety, and working within a system where 
no woman was encouraged, nor mostly "allowed" to have a "trial of scar" 
(ugh...), I did not know, nor had the experience to support a woman through 
this experience. I had therefore never seen what women could do, except for 
those who were dripped and monitored continually and told if they hadn't 
dilated x centimeters by x time they would 'need' a caesarean. Talk about 
setting them up for one!

Anyway, years have gone by when I have been able to be with women choosing 
this option and yes, it was at home. I got to know women who had done 
amazing things to get their babies born, and I remember telling ab ob I 
know about these experiences, and others I had heard about. He asked me why 
he had never heard of women achieving these incredible births after one and 
more caesareans. I can remember just looking at him, and asking back "Would 
you or colleagues of yours have listened to them had they requested support 
for this?" He could not answer me.

I was at two amazing births a fortnight ago where the woman had had 
previous caesareans - I am fortunate enough to work in a hospital now with 
people who support the concept of vaginal birth following caesarean, and 
our "stats" are exceptional. But what is far more important than stats is 
how the woman planning to give birth vaginally feels about it, whether she 
gives birth vaginally or by caesarean (or as a friend of mine and I hear 
"from above, or from below" - WHAT mesages does that give!!!).

She is the 'liver' of the experience - the giver of birth, and what she 
feels as she moves through it and into the rest of her life may be cruicial 
to how she sees herself, her relationship with the infant, with her 
partner, and with her other children. And incidentally - I have learned 
more than you could know, or I could have possibly believed from these 
women - many go through agony before they get to the point of actually 
giving birth, and the agony begins long before the labour...and often 
doesn't include the labour either.

Some women go a long way, both emotionally and distance wise to find that 
support, but it is a fact that most have no or little support from family 
or friends for their decision, and less from the medical profession on the 
whole. A well know ob in Bris is often quoted as saying "you will never get 
sued for doing a caesarean but you will if you don't". I happen to 
disagree, and the really unfortunate thing about this is that either a 
woman or a baby, or both, will have to die or be badly injured during the 
course of an uneccessary caesarean for this to occur.

My tuppence worth



- Original Message -
  From: Jenny Balnaves
  To: [EMAIL PRO

[ozmidwifery] australian story

[Grant and Louise]

  Vanessa's first birth was a C/section too. Was that 
  safe?
   
  LOUISE
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Larry & Megan]

For want of words, 
I'll just say thankyou,
Megan.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
  RhondaSent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 1:05To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
  Interesting fact
  


  
 
Well Megan,
 
I guess the only way to really understand is this..
 
I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has 
happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)
 
There are 2 most terrifying and catagorically worst days of my 
life - Days I would do anything to change and to undo in some way.
 - one where I was on the brink of death and l was so 
frightened that I thought it could get no worse (the birth of my 
daughter).
The second was the worst form of torture, humiliation, fear, 
confusion and the absolutly most soul destroying 24 hours of my life - 
the day my son was born.
So I can love my children and be thankful that they are here with 
us and I would not ever regret having them but in my heart I grieve on 
their birthdays.  Outwardly we celebrate but inside a terrible 
memory looms.  
 
So think of the one single moment in your life that you could say 
you thought things could get no worse - and magnify it by 100 
times.  Then have everyone tell you to be thankful for it and to 
not think about it and to be glad about it.  
 
How absurd -what if we told those who were traumatised by the 
Bali bombing or Sept 11 "It's only post bombing depression - get over 
it!"  Nobody would dare say it but women every day live with the 
pain and horror of violation and torture and there are few comforting 
words.   They don't get counseling and comfort and 
understanding, women who are tortured at our own doorsteps in places 
where we expect to be helped, not hurt and humiliated are told to "get 
over it" or "It's only post natal depression".
Some how we think that having a lovely baby makes up for it - "IT 
DOESN'T"
I was so devastated by the birth of my son that i have absolutely 
no memory of his first 6 months of life. All I actually remember 
doing is crying - alone while he slept - I would curl up and cry.  
When i wasn't crying I just existed and did what needed to be 
done.  I finally realised that i could not let them steal my soul 
and I "got over it" and I started to live again but I don't remember 
anything about him in that time.  I look at photo's I took and 
don't remember taking them.  How many women go home from hospitals 
a mere shell - just existing in a used and abused body, some how the 
spark is blown out and to relight it can take a lot of 
matches!
 
Sorry to be so morbid but I think to be able to help women we need 
to address this as a real issue and not just label it "post natal 
depression.' and find the cause and say " we are trying to stop it 
happening." 
I think a lot more needs to be done to help the women who have 
already suffered and who are suffering now.  To accept that it has 
happened and to let them talk about it as freely as women who talk about 
their empowering and lovely births is a major step.  Nobody blinks 
an eye when somebody says they had a lovely birth experience.  in 
general people turn away if a woman starts to express that she has had a 
truamatic one.   This is a social stigma for many women.
 
I'll get off my soap box now.
 
Please don't take any offence - I know many of you save women daily 
from this sort of thing and you do a wonderful job but we sometimes need 
to remember that it is still happening.  If I can put into words 
what other women bottle up and that helps just one person to understand 
than I light just one more match formy own spark.
 
Regards
Rhonda
 

Happiness lies for those who cry, those who hurt, 
those whohave searched, and those who have tried. For only they 
canappreciate the importance of people who have touched their 
lives.

Unknown.
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, 
November 06, 2002 00:26:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
 
Did anyone watch New Dimensions- 
Health, tonight on ABC. It was on post traumatic stress disorder 
experienced by woman during childbirth. It was only short but had a 
wonderful mid

Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

[Lynne Staff]

We are indeed, Leigh!
- Original Message -
From: "Leigh Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?


> I have been a single Mum since my daughter was 2 months  old - she is now
> 12. I have been attending Homebirths for 6 yrs now and holding down a part
> time nursing job. I certainly coulkn't have done it without my Mum being
> close by and numerous friends but I still have a life. As someone else
said
> you fit life around work and not the other way round. We certainly are our
> own worse enemies sometimes. Leigh
> - Original Message -
> From: "Andrea Bilcliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Ozmidwifery Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
>
>
> > Just wanted to add my experience to the responses...
> > I became a 'single mum' last year and just one of the many, many reasons
> (!)
> > that I left the hospital system for independent practice at that time,
was
> > because I couldn't work the shifts that were required. My ex rarely sees
> the
> > children and my mum works fulltime, so childcare was a big problem.
> > While I admit my practice is very small at this stage, I have greater
> > flexibility over my hours and I spend much more time at home. Like
Sally,
> I
> > am usually able to arrange antenatal & postnatal visits during school
> hours.
> > If not, I only have to find childcare for a couple of hours (much easier
> > than for a full 8 or 10 hour shift leaving home at 6am or getting back
at
> > 11pm).
> > Ideally I would like 2 births a month until the children are older.
That's
> > only 2 nights a month (and not all births are at night). I'm lucky that
I
> > can call my mum to come and sleepover if that happens. Like Tania, I can
> > stress a bit about the 'on call' period but it always seems to work out.
> As
> > the children get older that wont be such an issue.
> > I have to be honest...my income has dropped dramatically since last
year.
> I
> > just about survive on parenting payment and child support from the ex.
> What
> > little I earn from private practice at the moment is negated by the cost
> of
> > setting up, travelling and the usual 'professional deductions'. It's a
> > struggle financially at the moment but the benefits far outweigh the
> > negatives!
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
> --
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Re: [ozmidwifery] axa

[Lynne Staff]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa



What you have done with this email Justine, is to 
very nicely and succinctly put 'risk' in perspective - something that not 
many do regarding uterine rupture. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:58 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] axa
  
  Hey JoLove reading your posts, you 
have the right idea!!Why would VBAC be seen as riskier?  I 
would think a 1% chance of uterine rupture would be preferable ‘risk’ to a 
c/s anyway?  Then again evidence doesn’t play much of a role does 
it!Take careJustineI have often 
thought that those who want elective cs for no medical reasoning then it 
should be considered 'cosmetic' and should be treated like cosmetic 
surgeryYOU pay!  Perhaps the cover should be more costly for those 
who elect surgery?  The argument that cases of FTP and CPD would 
increase: but that would be obvious and the medicos would have  allot 
of explaining to do to justify it.  There will always be loop holes 
for women and doctors to get their sections, but it could be a deterrent. 
 Elective CS cost insurance companies thousands of possibly unnecessary 
dollars.  It should be structured like car insurance: those who live in 
high crime areas have to pay more- therefore those who elect unnecessary 
surgery should pay more.  There should be a strict criteria which 
allows emergency cs as exempt from charges.  As I said before the 
chances are the 'emerg' cases will increase but they are leaving themselves 
open for close scrutiny.What concerns me about insurance companies 
power over care is that there are reports that doctors who are 'allowing' 
vbac will be facing higher insurance costs due to the increase 
risks.call me biased but THAT IS CAUSE FOR CONCERN!well, 
 there is my 5c worth (about all I have got!)Jo 
Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith 
& love...

Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC

[Lynne Staff]

Hi Jenny - How does this woman feel about the 
decision to have another caesarean? Does she know that she is entitled to a 
second (and third...) opinion? Or will she be jumping out of the frying pan and 
into the fire with the other opinions she seeks (if all of the obs are 
like-minded)? And not just obs either. I remember many years ago at a homebirth 
meeting, a woman approached me who had had three caesareans and asked me whether 
I thought she could labour and give birth vaginally, and I said "No, it is 
unlikely". In my ignorance and naievety, and working within a system where no 
woman was encouraged, nor mostly "allowed" to have a "trial of scar" 
(ugh...), I did not know, nor had the experience to support a woman through this 
experience. I had therefore never seen what women could do, 
except for those who were dripped and monitored continually and told if they 
hadn't dilated x centimeters by x time they would 'need' a caesarean. Talk 
about setting them up for one!
 
Anyway, years have gone by when I have 
been able to be with women choosing this option and yes, it was at home. I 
got to know women who had done amazing things to get their babies born, and I 
remember telling ab ob I know about these experiences, and others I had heard 
about. He asked me why he had never heard of women achieving these incredible births after one and more caesareans. I can 
remember just looking at him, and asking back "Would you or colleagues of 
yours have listened to them had they requested support for this?" He could 
not answer me. 
 
I was at two amazing births a fortnight ago where 
the woman had had previous caesareans - I am fortunate enough to work in a 
hospital now with people who support the concept of vaginal birth following 
caesarean, and our "stats" are exceptional. But what is far more important 
than stats is how the woman planning to give birth vaginally feels about 
it, whether she gives birth vaginally or by caesarean (or as a friend of mine 
and I hear "from above, or from below" - WHAT mesages does that 
give!!!).
 
She is the 'liver' of the experience - the giver of 
birth, and what she feels as she moves through it and into the rest of her 
life may be cruicial to how she sees herself, her relationship with 
the infant, with her partner, and with her other children. And incidentally - I 
have learned more than you could know, or I could have possibly 
believed from these women - many go through agony before they get to 
the point of actually giving birth, and the agony begins long before the 
labour...and often doesn't include the labour either.
 
Some women go a long way, both emotionally and 
distance wise to find that support, but it is a fact that most have no or little 
support from family or friends for their decision, and less from the medical 
profession on the whole. A well know ob in Bris is often quoted as 
saying "you will never get sued for doing a caesarean but you will if you 
don't". I happen to disagree, and the really unfortunate thing about this is 
that either a woman or a baby, or both, will have to die or be badly 
injured during the course of an uneccessary caesarean for this to 
occur. 
 
My tuppence worth
 
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Jenny Balnaves 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:22 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
  
  
  
  
  Just a query...the hospital I work in 
  has a fairly high caesarian section rate unfortunately. I admitted a woman for 
  rest last week (at 37 weeks) who is expecting twins...second pregnancy...first 
  was an elective luscs because of 'high head at term'- otherwise known as 
  cephalo pelvic disproportion. 
  This time, both twins are cephalic, first twin's presenting part is very 
  low in the pelvis and is well and truly engaged. Is such a shame 
  that this woman's obstetrician will not even discuss the concept of 
  vaginal birth after caesarian don't you think?
  I welcome any comments anyone would like to make please.
  Regards,
  Jenny 
  
  
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  unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Australian Story

[Jodie Miller]

I watched that show with interest and I feel that Vanessa Gorman simply felt 
she had more "control" in the context of a caesarean delivery, that she 
wanted to avoid any "surprises" such that natural vaginal birth might present 
to her.  I felt sorry for her as a second vaginal birth might have been a 
very healing experience for her.just my lay opinion.

Jodie Miller




On Tuesday 05 November 2002 12:21, Dr Penelope A Barrett wrote:
> I wondered why she had said that she was having a caesarean section because
> it was 'safest' way to go. She may have had other reasons but this was not
> a good editing job (whoever did it) to let this bit get out without
> context. The partner's comments I found a bit 'off' - talking about what
> she had been prior to the pregnancy and then afterwards - implying it was a
> bit of a turnoff - again possibly a poor editing job as comments like this
> may have been taken out of context.
>
> I thought that this wasn't such a sound message to be sending out on
> national TV as it's not true.
>
> Penny.
>
> On 30/10/02 11:51 AM, "Larry & Megan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I needed to comment on the follow up of Vanessa,Layla and her very
> > beautiful Raphael and I wish no disrespect to her or her choices. I was
> > watching and crying as we all no doubt were but when I saw her baby being
> > born by

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Re: [ozmidwifery] New Dimensions Tonight on ABC

[Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood]

Title: New Dimensions Tonight on ABC



Thought I'd post the transcript, for those without internet 
access, sorry for the funny format!
 
Tania
 

  
  


  
Childbirth is supposed to be one of life’s most 
natural and normal events. But when things go wrong it can be terrifying 
and traumatic. So much so that new research from Griffith University in 
Queensland is showing a significant percentage of women could be 
clinically defined as having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder brought on 
by the birth. Shelly Horton has more.
GEORGE NEGUS: As folklore has it, childbirth is a natural and normal 
thing, but when it goes wrong, it can be anything but natural and 
normal.In fact, it can be terrifying and 
traumatic.Lately, as Shelly Horton tells us, some new Australian 
mums are being diagnosed with so-called post-traumatic stress disorder 
brought on, apparently, by childbirth.SHELLY HORTON: Three years 
ago, Kathy Cornack gave birth to beautiful Nicola.But because 
Nicola's head wasn't in the ideal position, the birth was anything but 
beautiful.KATHY CORNACK: Then they put up an IV 
drip.They did some sort of manipulation which was really 
painful.They put an epidural in and you've got to keep still 
because if they miss you could be paralysed.You're there and you 
go -- (Howls with pain) ..trying to keep still while they put 
this needle in.I became this piece of meat on a bed they were 
trying to get a baby out of.I'm lying on my back, looking up and 
it's like scenes from TV shows -- you just see all the lights and it's 
kind of surreal.And it wasn't at all like I imagined my daughter 
would be born.I thought it would be this beautiful, you know, 
sort of family, homely thing.And she was just born in this cold, 
grey room surrounded by strangers.SHELLY HORTON: And 
unfortunately, Kathy's story is not uncommon.Experiences like 
hers prompted research by the Griffith University School of 
Nursing.PROF DEBRA CREEDY, PSYCHOLOGIST, GRIFFITH UNIVERSITY 
SCHOOL OF NURSING: We surveyed 600 women prior to delivery, four weeks 
after delivery and three months after delivery.And we found that 
around 33 per cent of women found that childbirth was 
stressful.And in 6 per cent of those cases, those women met the 
full diagnostic criteria for post-traumatic stress 
disorder.SHELLY HORTON: This is quite distinct from postnatal 
depression.To fit the definition of PTSD, the event has to be 
traumatic.For example, the mother has to fear for her life or 
the life of her child.PROF DEBRA CREEDY: They have to experience 
a number of re-experiencing type symptoms -- where women describe 
standing at the sink doing the dishes, and suddenly a thought of the 
birth will come flooding back into mind.So there's that sense of 
re-experiencing.There's also symptoms related to 
avoidance.So women describe things like driving past the 
hospital and wanting to move away from that area as soon as possible or 
wanting to leave the hospital as soon as possible after 
delivery.SHELLY HORTON: And these symptoms have to last for more 
than a month.PROF DEBRA CREEDY: There has certainly been 
documented case studies of women who still experience trauma symptoms 
nine years after the birth.KATHY CORNACK: It was probably about 
15 months before I realised that there was something wrong with me 
'cause I'd normally been pretty upbeat and pretty positive and I found I 
was just crying all the time -- still, even that long 
after.Whenever I saw a show about babies or birth or something, 
I would lose it.And any little bit of stress would send me over 
the edge.SHELLY HORTON: The mothers in the study suffering from 
post-traumatic stress disorder say the triggers could be anything from a 
long painful labour, forceps delivery, multiple examinations, and 
especially emergency caesarean.JENNY GAMBLE, MIDWIFE, GRIFFITH 
UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF NURSING: One woman talked about 12 vaginal 
examinations in four hours -- while she is in labour.And so 
those sorts of things really detract from the experience.SHELLY 
HORTON: The research shows by failing to recognise a traumatic turn of 
events during childbirth, maternity staff are missing an opportunity to 
treat mental distress before it turns into post-traumatic stress 
disorder.PROF DEBRA CREEDY: In the survey that I did only 14 per 
cent of women said that any staff member asked them about the birth 
which indicates a very low level of focus on the emotional aspects o

[ozmidwifery] Senate PI report

[Vernon at Stringybark]

Dear all,

Meg lees office forwarded me this link to the latest Senate Economic
References Committee report on PI insurance, for your info.

Barb

Dr Barbara Vernon
National President
Maternity Coalition

http://wopared/Senate/committee/economics_ctte/publib_insur/report/contents.
htm

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[ozmidwifery] VBAC

[Jenny Balnaves]

Just a query...the hospital I work in has a fairly high caesarian section rate unfortunately. I admitted a woman for rest last week (at 37 weeks) who is expecting twins...second pregnancy...first was an elective luscs because of 'high head at term'- otherwise known as cephalo pelvic disproportion. 
This time, both twins are cephalic, first twin's presenting part is very low in the pelvis and is well and truly engaged. Is such a shame that this woman's obstetrician will not even discuss the concept of vaginal birth after caesarian don't you think?
I welcome any comments anyone would like to make please.
Regards,
Jenny 
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. Click Here 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] New Dimensions Tonight on ABC

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Title: New Dimensions Tonight on ABC



I missed this but would love to see it: anny copies 
available?? i will be going to the website after i check my emails. 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:21 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] New Dimensions 
  Tonight on ABC
  Hello AllHope some of you caught New 
  Dimensions on ABC tonight (with George Negus), Jenny Gamble and Debra Creedy 
  from Griffith University were on presenting new research they had done on 
  women and birth trauma and how birth trauma resulted in Post Traumatic Stress 
  Disorder (PTSD).  It was excellent, they were both really clear about the 
  level of trauma some women face and even got  a line in that even the 
  most interventionist births require the soothing reassurance of a skilled 
  midwife and once again George made special mention of his role as a homebirth 
  Dad!!Jenny if you are on line would love to see an excerpt of your 
  work it would really help in our lobbying activity.In 
  solidarityJustine 

[ozmidwifery] Re: "training"

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi Liz,

If you want to investigate a "training" that is not within a University, 
you would be welcome to investigate/review our Graduate Diploma in 
Childbirth Education. We have clearly defined competencies and performance 
criteria for all aspects of this course. Let me know.

Cheers

Andrea


At 17:52 5/11/2002, elizabeth  mcalpine wrote:
Thanks Tina,  I have that..

I was thinking that in your training you would have 'competency units' 
leading to performance criteria.  Do you???

love,
Liz
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "training"

In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



Dear midwife students.

I need to review a training program/strategy.

Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives??

Many thanks
Liz McAlpine

Hi Liz
try the ACMI webite at 
www.acmi.org.au...under the link of 
profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for 
Midwives (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for 
midwifery practice.

Cheers Tina P.


-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Rhonda]

   
  Well Megan,
   
  I guess the only way to really understand is this..
   
  I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has 
  happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)
   
  There are 2 most terrifying and catagorically worst days of my 
  life - Days I would do anything to change and to undo in some way.
   - one where I was on the brink of death and l was so frightened 
  that I thought it could get no worse (the birth of my daughter).
  The second was the worst form of torture, humiliation, fear, 
  confusion and the absolutly most soul destroying 24 hours of my life - the 
  day my son was born.
  So I can love my children and be thankful that they are here with us 
  and I would not ever regret having them but in my heart I grieve on their 
  birthdays.  Outwardly we celebrate but inside a terrible memory 
  looms.  
   
  So think of the one single moment in your life that you could say you 
  thought things could get no worse - and magnify it by 100 times.  
  Then have everyone tell you to be thankful for it and to not think about 
  it and to be glad about it.  
   
  How absurd -what if we told those who were traumatised by the 
  Bali bombing or Sept 11 "It's only post bombing depression - get over 
  it!"  Nobody would dare say it but women every day live with the pain 
  and horror of violation and torture and there are few comforting 
  words.   They don't get counseling and comfort and 
  understanding, women who are tortured at our own doorsteps in places where 
  we expect to be helped, not hurt and humiliated are told to "get over it" 
  or "It's only post natal depression".
  Some how we think that having a lovely baby makes up for it - "IT 
  DOESN'T"
  I was so devastated by the birth of my son that i have absolutely no 
  memory of his first 6 months of life. All I actually remember doing 
  is crying - alone while he slept - I would curl up and cry.  When i 
  wasn't crying I just existed and did what needed to be done.  I 
  finally realised that i could not let them steal my soul and I "got over 
  it" and I started to live again but I don't remember anything about him in 
  that time.  I look at photo's I took and don't remember taking 
  them.  How many women go home from hospitals a mere shell - just 
  existing in a used and abused body, some how the spark is blown out 
  and to relight it can take a lot of matches!
   
  Sorry to be so morbid but I think to be able to help women we need to 
  address this as a real issue and not just label it "post natal 
  depression.' and find the cause and say " we are trying to stop it 
  happening." 
  I think a lot more needs to be done to help the women who have 
  already suffered and who are suffering now.  To accept that it has 
  happened and to let them talk about it as freely as women who talk about 
  their empowering and lovely births is a major step.  Nobody blinks an 
  eye when somebody says they had a lovely birth experience.  in 
  general people turn away if a woman starts to express that she has had a 
  truamatic one.   This is a social stigma for many women.
   
  I'll get off my soap box now.
   
  Please don't take any offence - I know many of you save women daily 
  from this sort of thing and you do a wonderful job but we sometimes need 
  to remember that it is still happening.  If I can put into words what 
  other women bottle up and that helps just one person to understand than I 
  light just one more match formy own spark.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
  
  Happiness lies for those who cry, those who hurt, those 
  whohave searched, and those who have tried. For only they 
  canappreciate the importance of people who have touched their 
  lives.
  
  Unknown.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  November 06, 2002 00:26:13
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
   
  Did anyone watch New Dimensions- 
  Health, tonight on ABC. It was on post traumatic stress disorder 
  experienced by woman during childbirth. It was only short but had a 
  wonderful midwife say some very great things like, "a woman should be able 
  to walk in off the street in labour and expect to be treated with 
  sensitivity and support"(words to that effect). 
  on another note it looks like MDA, 
  also on ABC, will have a woman (regular character on the 
  show) choosing to birth with a midwife, even mentioned the word 
  "philosophy", can't wait to see how they do it.
  cheers
  Megan.
  PS I do not want to detract from the

[ozmidwifery] herbs!

[Rhonda]

   
  This site seems to have some good information - may be helpful to 
  some...
   
  I stumbled across it but have not read it all.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
  http://www.miraclesbymoonlight.com/herbs.html
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

[ozmidwifery] New Dimensions Tonight on ABC

[Justine Caines]

Title: New Dimensions Tonight on ABC



Hello All

Hope some of you caught New Dimensions on ABC tonight (with George Negus), Jenny Gamble and Debra Creedy from Griffith University were on presenting new research they had done on women and birth trauma and how birth trauma resulted in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  It was excellent, they were both really clear about the level of trauma some women face and even got  a line in that even the most interventionist births require the soothing reassurance of a skilled midwife and once again George made special mention of his role as a homebirth Dad!!

Jenny if you are on line would love to see an excerpt of your work it would really help in our lobbying activity.

In solidarity


Justine

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Please help Asthma South Australia

[Pinky McKay]

Hi Aviva,
We have been to the site. My little son is 
delighted -he is wanting a playstation 2 !! and loves the idea of a (virtual) 
marathon teeshirt!! Will be entering.
Pinky

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aviva 
  Sheb'a 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:18 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Please help 
  Asthma South Australia
  
  
  Hi, Midwomen,
   
  I hope you don't mind me sending this...it's a cause 
  very dear to me, as an asthmatic. Please feel free to forward it as you 
  wish.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Aviva
  **
  Subject: Please help Asthma South Australia
  
  
  WIN A PLAYSTATION®2 
  Here’s a charity fun run that’s perfect for 
  you….
  Why?
  Because you don’t actually run anywhere – but you still 
  get the T-shirt! Ideal for impressing your friends and colleagues.
  
No training 
No eating plates of spaghetti the night before 

No early morning alarm call 
No running !
  With the Ngapartji 
  Virtual Marathon, you log-on to asthmasa.org.au, and watch a little guy 
  called Matthew Breathebetter run a full length marathon for you.
  You get the evidence to show off to your friends that 
  you’ve done a marathon! How clever!
  You get a T-Shirt to prove that you’ve done it plus a 
  certificate that states what position you came in the marathon.
  Plus every runner who enters between November 
  1st and December 20th goes into a free draw to win a 
  Playstation®2 valued at $399.  And you'll win it in time for 
  Christmas!
  This is a fun event for a brilliant cause and the only 
  thing you need to have is the $20 entry fee, a credit card and a great sense 
  of humour. 
  All the money raised will fund a special safe camp for 
  children with severe asthma in South Australia next summer, so like all good 
  fun runs its raising money for a good cause.
  
It only takes 3 minutes 
anyone can do it, anywhere, anytime 
It’s on-line at asthmasa.org.au 
Or log on at the free terminal at Ngapartji Internet 
Café, 211 Rundle Street
  Ask about our group login for schools, workplaces and 
  clubs on 8238 9393

RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Larry & Megan]

Did anyone watch New Dimensions- Health, 
tonight on ABC. It was on post traumatic stress disorder experienced by woman 
during childbirth. It was only short but had a wonderful midwife say some very 
great things like, "a woman should be able to walk in off the street in labour 
and expect to be treated with sensitivity and support"(words to that effect). 

on another note it looks like MDA, also on 
ABC, will have a woman (regular character on the show) choosing to 
birth with a midwife, even mentioned the word "philosophy", can't wait to see 
how they do it.
cheers
Megan.
PS I do not want to detract from the point 
of your e-mail Jo and Rhonda, I have no idea how you feel, I can only try to 
understand.

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jo & Dean 
  BainbridgeSent: Tuesday, 5 November 2002 9:31To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Interesting fact
  
  "For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet wonderful 
  birth is just as much a fairy tale."
   
  I am saddened to the core of my womanhood reading these words.
   
  The pain that women who have bad cs experiences is under estimated by so 
  many.
   
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
  8388 6918birth with trust, faith & love...
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:12 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting 
fact


  

   
  Oh so sorry to be like that but gee - my first was an emergency 
  c/s at 27 weeks and the second was 24 hours of abuse by the most 
  horrible ob on the face of the earth while in labour and 
  then after the 24 hour of emotional torture the physical assult 
  of a brutal c/s which left me stapled up crooked and bruised for 
  10 weeks.
  I guess sleeping seemed a better option to me.
  For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet 
  wonderful birth is just as much a fairy tale.
   
  Rhonda  
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, 
  November 05, 2002 16:31:13
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
   
  So glad I'm human (well, sort of human, 
  I believe!)! Labour and birth is intense, painful, exciting, 
  challenging, wonderful, excruciating, and lots more, including 
  orgasmic. Nothing else is like it, in the world and I wouldn't have 
  missed a second of it for quids! What a way to present your 
  Darlings to the world and make you realise what a huge thing it is to 
  bring a person to the planet.
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Debby M 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
  
  
  
  Oh I don't know, I wouldn't have missed my last birth for the 
  world, it was a wonderful exciting experience - could have done 
  without the last few weeks of pregnancy though.
   
  Waking up to find a baby, I must admit sounds a bit c-sectionish 
  to me - wake up - here's bub - God I wonder if they have 
  given me the right one - although I suppose grizzly bears don't have 
  this concern as they are not sharing their maternity ward with 
  any other bears :-)
   
   
  

  


  
  
    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here 

RE: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the "Staus of Women"

[Larry & Megan]

stay tuned, I have requested this info from the minister in SA and hope to
be able to post them all very soon,
Megan.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of elizabeth
mcalpine
Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2002 5:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the "Staus of Women"


wonderful, Megan.
OK, who is it in Vic??

Liz
- Original Message -
From: "Larry & Megan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:30 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] NMAP and the "Staus of Women"


> Hi all
> today myself and another consumer had a lengthy appointment with S.A.'s
> Minister for the Status of Women. She was very interested in NMAP and what
> we had to say. She is going to invite us to a number of other meetings so
as
> we can spread the word to other women and their various groups. She sees
> this as something that she needs to get behind and support.
> So, how about every Minister for the Staus of Women has a visit from
someone
> who can educate them on NMAP?
> It seems people are interested and willing to help, we just need to tell
> them it exists.
>
> Lets go out and educate,
> Megan.
>
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> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Jo & Dean Bainbridge]

"For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet wonderful 
birth is just as much a fairy tale."
 
I am saddened to the core of my womanhood reading these words.
 
The pain that women who have bad cs experiences is under estimated by so 
many.
 
Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
8388 6918birth with trust, faith & love...

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting 
  fact
  
  


  
 
Oh so sorry to be like that but gee - my first was an emergency c/s 
at 27 weeks and the second was 24 hours of abuse by the most horrible ob 
on the face of the earth while in labour and then after the 24 
hour of emotional torture the physical assult of a brutal c/s 
which left me stapled up crooked and bruised for 10 weeks.
I guess sleeping seemed a better option to me.
For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet 
wonderful birth is just as much a fairy tale.
 
Rhonda  
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, 
November 05, 2002 16:31:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
 
So glad I'm human (well, sort of human, I 
believe!)! Labour and birth is intense, painful, exciting, challenging, 
wonderful, excruciating, and lots more, including orgasmic. Nothing else 
is like it, in the world and I wouldn't have missed a second of it for 
quids! What a way to present your Darlings to the world and make 
you realise what a huge thing it is to bring a person to the 
planet.
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Debby 
M 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact



Oh I don't know, I wouldn't have missed my last birth for the 
world, it was a wonderful exciting experience - could have done without 
the last few weeks of pregnancy though.
 
Waking up to find a baby, I must admit sounds a bit c-sectionish to 
me - wake up - here's bub - God I wonder if they have given me 
the right one - although I suppose grizzly bears don't have this concern 
as they are not sharing their maternity ward with any other bears 
:-)
 
 

  

  
  


  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
  Click 
  Here 

Re: [ozmidwifery] "training"

[elizabeth mcalpine]

OK Tina.
So how does your training address the 
competencies
for example,
Competency standard 7 

at each point or unit, what is 
taught??
 
Love 
Liz
feel free to email me off list if this may be 
boring to others.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And in fact, stay in touch with me 
anytime!!
Howdy Liznot quite sure what you mean by 'competency 
units'but can say that all our units are based on the ACMI Competency 
Standards for Midwives (2002)...Code of Practice for Midwives (1999), and the 
ACMI Code of Ethics (1995).Cheers 
Tina.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

[Rhonda]

   
  Oh so sorry to be like that but gee - my first was an emergency c/s 
  at 27 weeks and the second was 24 hours of abuse by the most horrible ob 
  on the face of the earth while in labour and then after the 24 
  hour of emotional torture the physical assult of a brutal c/s 
  which left me stapled up crooked and bruised for 10 weeks.
  I guess sleeping seemed a better option to me.
  For me the reality of empowering, exciting, even painful yet 
  wonderful birth is just as much a fairy tale.
   
  Rhonda  
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, November 
  05, 2002 16:31:13
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
   
  So glad I'm human (well, sort of human, I 
  believe!)! Labour and birth is intense, painful, exciting, challenging, 
  wonderful, excruciating, and lots more, including orgasmic. Nothing else 
  is like it, in the world and I wouldn't have missed a second of it for 
  quids! What a way to present your Darlings to the world and make you 
  realise what a huge thing it is to bring a person to the 
  planet.
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Debby 
  M 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
  
  
  
  Oh I don't know, I wouldn't have missed my last birth for the world, 
  it was a wonderful exciting experience - could have done without the last 
  few weeks of pregnancy though.
   
  Waking up to find a baby, I must admit sounds a bit c-sectionish to 
  me - wake up - here's bub - God I wonder if they have given me 
  the right one - although I suppose grizzly bears don't have this concern 
  as they are not sharing their maternity ward with any other bears 
  :-)
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth ads

[Pinky McKay]

Thanks Jen,
And good luck with your exams -I presume you are right in them at the
moment!
Pinky,

- Original Message -
From: "Jennifer Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth ads


> Pinky,
>
> Congrats on the publicity!  Love, Jen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sunday, November 3, 2002 12:27 pm
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth ads
>
> > By the way - I opened yesterdays Herald Sun HOME  magazine at 1am
> > this morning as I hopped into bed and there among the fashion
> > statement household goods were cover shots of both my books with a
> > heading "Parental Guidance" (They were the only books on the page
> > so it wasnt a parenting feature). The Fushcia covers must have
> > coordinated with the other goodies - or just perhaps??? The writer
> > enjoyed them and really thinks they could enhance household
> > harmony (Feng Shui in the nursery!).
> >
> > By the way I have an article 'Karma Kids' in Vogue Kids - about
> > Spiritual Parenting - its amazing what we can gently "slip in
> > sideways" - one of my interviewees was midwife Jane Myers.
> >
> > Pinky
>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] "training"

[TinaPettigrew]

In a message dated 5/11/02 6:05:55 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Thanks Tina,  I have that..
 
I was thinking that in your training you would have 'competency units' leading to performance criteria.  Do you???
 
love,
Liz


Howdy Liznot quite sure what you mean by 'competency units'but can say that all our units are based on the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives (2002)...Code of Practice for Midwives (1999), and the ACMI Code of Ethics (1995).

Cheers Tina.

[ozmidwifery] Fw: Please help Asthma South Australia

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Hi, Midwomen,
 
I hope you don't mind me sending this...it's a cause very 
dear to me, as an asthmatic. Please feel free to forward it as you 
wish.
 
Cheers,
 
Aviva
**
Subject: Please help Asthma South Australia


WIN A PLAYSTATION®2 
Here’s a charity fun run that’s perfect for 
you….
Why?
Because you don’t actually run anywhere – but you still 
get the T-shirt! Ideal for impressing your friends and colleagues.

  No training 
  No eating plates of spaghetti the night before 
  No early morning alarm call 
  No running !
With the Ngapartji Virtual 
Marathon, you log-on to asthmasa.org.au, and watch a little guy called 
Matthew Breathebetter run a full length marathon for you.
You get the evidence to show off to your friends that 
you’ve done a marathon! How clever!
You get a T-Shirt to prove that you’ve done it plus a 
certificate that states what position you came in the marathon.
Plus every runner who enters between November 
1st and December 20th goes into a free draw to win a 
Playstation®2 valued at $399.  And you'll win it in time for 
Christmas!
This is a fun event for a brilliant cause and the only 
thing you need to have is the $20 entry fee, a credit card and a great sense of 
humour. 
All the money raised will fund a special safe camp for 
children with severe asthma in South Australia next summer, so like all good fun 
runs its raising money for a good cause.

  It only takes 3 minutes 
  anyone can do it, anywhere, anytime 
  It’s on-line at asthmasa.org.au 
  Or log on at the free terminal at Ngapartji Internet 
  Café, 211 Rundle Street
Ask about our group login for schools, workplaces and 
clubs on 8238 9393

Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Young Parents Program

[Jodie Miller]

Hi Kathy, not sure what kind of suggestions you were looking for but have you 
thought of forming an association of some kind? - you might then be eligible 
for government funding given your clientele.

We are an association called Friends of the Birth Centre and we do a lot of 
fundraising, networking and educating on behalf of the Brisbane Royal Women's 
Hospital Birth Centre.  I wonder if some of your grateful past clients would 
be willing to get involved on a voluntary basis in the organisational and 
networking aspects of your work?  Handing some of the work over to those 
who've enjoyed your personal service in the past might ensure you have more 
time for the clients who really need you and make it easier to keep those who 
are at risk of dropping out of the system since they will have "older 
sisters" and peers whom they can call on at other times.   Getting possessive 
might stand in the way of teaching a fledgling to fly, if you know what I 
mean.  A network takes the pressure off you and gives a new mum more 
opportunities to find her own feet using the support provided within the 
system.

Some of the programs we organise for new mums and dads:
Post natal morning teas
Infant massage classes
Play groups
Annual birthday and Christmas get-togethers

I must say that some of the mums that I met at these events when I was a new 
mum are still my best friends today.  Our families have grown up to play 
together.  Do not underestimate the power of a network.

We also donate a library of books and videos at the birth centre for new 
parents-to-be to use at their convenience.  Toys for siblings to play with in 
the waiting room etc.   The power of a fundraising body.  We have formed 
alliances with Aust Breastfeeding Assoc., Kidsafe House, Riverton Sleep 
Centre, Playgroup Assoc and Brisbane Active Birth Yoga and we all support 
each other's causes.

Are these the sorts of suggestions you were fishing for?  Hope this provides 
some inspiration, at the very least.

Jodie Miller
Friends of the Birth Centre
http://fbc.org.au

On Saturday 02 November 2002 16:07, Jim O'Neill wrote:
> Dear Sue and list,
> This is my début on this list, though I have been a reader of great
> enthusiasm for months now, probably a year or more. The unit I have worked
> in for the last 7 years has had a couple of different approaches in that
> time , All of which I have rotated through for a time.  Currently I and
> another very enthusiastic midwife share the program.  Since we took over
> (2-3 months) there have been approximately 30 odd pregnant teens known to
> us at any one time.  As of 1 month ago we now have the whole of Thursday (
> up on half the day)  to devote to these young women and their support
> people. Mornings are spent :- following up on new clients booked in since
> last week, or making contact with those we get to hear about via the grape
> vine. - phoning or visiting mums and their babies ( up to about 2-3 weeks
> ). This is to ensure that they are OK and are being followed up and for
> those who need it, referral to a child and family health nurse who will
> usually have met the women during their pregnancy and who has the roll of
> caring for these young families from then on. Many of the older teens go
> through the mainstream system as seen appropriate, i.e.. good support etc.
> - where necessary we visit at home during the pregnancy if we can't reach
> them any other way or even drive them to have their various tests done at
> pathology if transport is an issue. - visiting those adolescence that
> choose to use the main antenatal clinic, (we do try to encourage them to
> attend our clinic.)  We do target the client who go to the obs. privately
> and invite them to our education sessions especially if they have declined
> the regular classes. - liaising with other community support services -
> Preparing for an education session of about half an hour for the afternoon
> midwives clinic (held in the community) - preparing for the midwife clinic
> where the other midwife  and I (on alternate weeks) look after the
> pregnancy care of the young women. - and book work, stats etc.  (THE
> ETERNAL BUG BEAR) The afternoon is spent at the clinic ( 3 midwives , me,
> the aboriginal midwife and the main stream midwife. there is a
> obstetrician there but he is fairly midwife friendlyjust does first
> visits or deals with any high risk problemsbut does not take over care
> , he sees it as his afternoon off.) This is when we try to get the girls
> together for education but also to hopefully develop a peer support group.
> Previous to "us" the YPG (young parents group) had lacked a little
> enthusiasm by the previous midwife. It is hard and the rewards 
> sometimes need to be looked for in the form of just getting to see a
> client.  So we are having fun getting up to speed and would love any
> suggestions that those on the list might have.  Some of our girls have done
> really well ... I get a little