Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Dear Jodie and all: I would never even think that anyone shouldn't have the
right to a social of use ultrasound. Just because I don't think it's the
best idea, doesn't mean others shouldn't do it. I don't think however it
would prevent many smokers from smoking during pregnancy: having witnessed
mums smoking while breastfeeding even the real live baby doesn't make a
difference to some not that I think that makes them bad mums, I really don't
(child of a very loving mother who smoked AND was a midwife). I have met
many dads who felt it was a bonding experience though. In the case of
abortions, I do believe that all women having an abortion are given an u/s
to make sure the correct proceedure for the right GA is used. Some do ask
not to see, others request to. Have had couples crying after seeing the
heart beating. Yes, I worked in a feminist women's health service and
viewing the u/s can make some couples stop for awhile to think about
options, had one couple go away (in tears) when they saw twins. Anyway we
are all different and we make different choices for many many reasons.

marilyn

 Original Message -
From: "Jodie Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in
Pregnancy


OK, just one more comment before I let the topic lie...

On Friday 15 November 2002 02:56, Marilyn Kleidon wrote:
> Just a couple of 2 cents on this. I think it is sad that people think this
> makes the pregnancy real or more real, surely by 20weeks there are other
> more real signs that signal this.

I suspect the majority of maternity workers who participate here meet
predominantly happy, healthy expectant couples who want only what is best
for
baby.  To my (admittedly limited) experience many first time mothers are
still waiting to feel their baby's first movements by the 20 wk anomoly scan
so ultrasound provides their first true "bonding experience" with their
babies.

Consider how the early use of ultrasound might impact on a drug abusing
mother-to-be, or a heavy smoker or a woman considering an abortion.  As I
mentioned before, I've heard of the scan being used in situations of
unplanned pregnancy or to coax a reluctant father into responsibility.
There
ARE situations where I feel the perceived benefit outweighs the perceived
risk.  I do think people should have the informed right to the social use of
ultrasound.

Jodie


On the other side these are computer
> generated images: some very clever person wrote a program that puts
> together all of the measurements from the sono and so produces a visual
> image, it is no more accurate or real for that matter than the
measurements
> from which the percentiles for gestational age are generated. At best it
is
> a sophisticated cartoon image of the baby. I should be careful I could be
> getting into a complicated esoteric discussion on reality.
>
> Oh well. In Seattle there lives an ultrasound technician who has bought
her
> own machine and sells in utero u/s images to mums and dads who had no
> clinical reason to get an insurance paid u/s, there is always a business
> opportunity around. Amazingly, even a few (a very few) of our homebirth
> mums, who wouldn't have an anomaly scan for ethical reasons had one of
> these because they were cute??
>
> a!!!
>
> ps. I really do think this technology is great to have when it is needed!!
> However, because this is rare, people find reasons to use it more often
for
> no good reason.
>
> marilyn
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sally Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:27 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in
> Pregnancy
>
> > My hesitation around ultrasound is that no-one can produce research to
> > prove that this is a safe thing to do. Until this is clarified I remain
> > one who will advocate the use of ultrasound for clinical indications
> > only rather than as a routine intervention.
> >
> > Sally Westbury
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jodie Miller [mailto:gympiegirl@;yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 2:16 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy
> >
> > Just an anecdote to add...
> >
> > Yoga pals and expectant friends of mine recently had
> > their 20 week scan at the Royal Women's Hospital
> > Brisbane and they came home with, not only the regular
> > B&W prints, but a set of *extraordinarily* detailed
> > colour "photos" of their baby's face in utero.  The
> > technician got so excited at the quality of image that
> > they were achieving and printed off some 8 or more
> > wonderful pictures for the parents-to-be to take home
> > and enjoy.
> >
> > I must say the images gave me shivers!  The level of
> > detail achieved was amazing... who could blame parents
> > for wanting to take advantage of this opportunity to
> > "meet" an

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Hi Kirsten and all:

It took me years to remember my SS# in the USA (not even having a TFN in
1978 when I left oz it was quite an experience) and now 24 yrs later in OZ I
have had to get my TFN, which I agree is not yet quite the counterpart of
the SS#, but nevertheless necessary. Of course now I know my SS# by heart.
You will survive.

Marilyn
- Original Message -
From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!


> as an Aussie existing in the USA, can I just say that our tax file number
> doesn't even begin to equal the value of the SS number. You can't even get
> the PHONE connected without a SS number (I kid you not).  One of the
things
> that annoys me constantly is when I go to inservice I have to give my SS
> number along with my name when I sign attendance records. Of course I'm
the
> only idiot who doesn't know their SSN off by heart cos I've only had it
for
> a year!!
>
> Kirsten
> who only has 8 months to go
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!
>
>
> > This is obviously American advice - Australian's don't
> > have Social Security numbers. I guess the closest thing
> > is the Tax File Number.
> >
> > However - the photocopying everything is *good* advice.
> >
> > I have heard similar advice about going overseas, which
> > I follow - I always take several photocopies of the
> > front page of my passport, and take one with me and
> > leave one here with someone I can contact easily. If
> > I then lose my passport or have it stolen it is then
> > much easier to replace.
> >
> > Regs
> >
> > Brian White
> > ( The list's lurking geek ... )
> >
> > At 23:26 14/11/2002, Rhonda wrote:
> > >
> > >I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is
good
> > >in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy what was
in
> > >my purse.
> > >Regards
> > >Rhonda.
> > >
> > >I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this out, but it
> sounds
> > >like good advice.
> > >A corporate attorney sent this out to the employees in his company...
> > >
> > >Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sides
> of
> > >each license, credit card, etc.
> > >You will know what you had in your wallet
> > >and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.
> Keep
> > >the photocopy in a safe place.
> > >
> > >We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed against us
in
> > >stealing a name, address, Social Security, credit cards, etc.
> Unfortunately
> > >I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen
> last
> > >month.  Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell
> phone
> > >package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to
> buy a
> > >Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving
> record
> > >information online, and more.
> > >
> > >But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this
> happens
> > >to you or someone you know: We have been told we should cancel your
> credit
> > >cards immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and
your
> card
> > >numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where you can find
> them
> > >easily.
> > >
> > >File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where it was
stolen,
> > >this proves to credit providers you were diligent, and is a first step
> toward
> > >an investigation (if there ever is one).
> > >
> > >But here's what is perhaps most important: (I never ever thought to do
> this)
> > >Call the three national credit reporting organizations immediately to
> place a
> > >fraud alert on your name and Social Security number. I had never heard
of
> > >doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an
application
> for
> > >credit was made over the Internet in my name.
> > >
> > >The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your
> information
> > >was stolen and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new
credit.
> By
> > >the time I was advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two
> > >weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done.
> > >
> > >There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves'
> > >purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert.
> > >Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw
my
> > >wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in).  It seems to have
> stopped
> > >them in their tracks.
> > >
> > >The numbers are:
> > >Equifax: 1-800-525-6285
> > >Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742
> > >Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289
> > >Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271
> > >
> > >We pass along jokes; we pass along just about everything.  Do think
about
> > >passin

Re: [ozmidwifery] Calling for book reviewers

[Robin Moon]

Hi Andrea,

I would be happy to be a book reviewer.


NameRobin Moon
Postal address   16 Chester Street Epping
Phone number98691211
Area of interest/expertise:Midwifery


Robin




- Original Message -
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:50 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Calling for book reviewers


> Hi listers,
>
> We are once again looking for volunteers to add to our team of book
> reviewers. Each year we receive a number of new tiles that we add to our
> list on the web site and in our catalogue and as a service to our
> customers, we like to be able to point buyers to a review of the book to
> give them an idea of its style and content.
>
> We need approximately another 10 people at this time (we still have some
> reviewers on our panel from almost 2 years ago) and are looking for those
> with varied backgrounds: midwives, consumers, educators, lactation
> consultants etc.
>
> Before you rush in to reply, please don't offer unless you can promise to
> send a review within 2 months of receiving a book. You will be able to
keep
> the book in return for your review, but this is not just an easy way to
get
> a free book - we are asking you to do some work for us first!
>
> As we have a range of titles available, we will try to match the book with
> your area of interest. An outline of how to prepare the review will be
> included. We are hoping to have all reviews completed and on our web site
> by the end of January.
>
> If you are interested, please email me the following details:
>
> Name
> Postal address
> Phone number
> Area of interest/expertise
>
> Thank you for your interest,
>
> Andrea Robertson
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Marilyn Kleidon]

- Original Message -
From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!


> as an Aussie existing in the USA, can I just say that our tax file number
> doesn't even begin to equal the value of the SS number. You can't even get
> the PHONE connected without a SS number (I kid you not).  One of the
things
> that annoys me constantly is when I go to inservice I have to give my SS
> number along with my name when I sign attendance records. Of course I'm
the
> only idiot who doesn't know their SSN off by heart cos I've only had it
for
> a year!!
>
> Kirsten
> who only has 8 months to go
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!
>
>
> > This is obviously American advice - Australian's don't
> > have Social Security numbers. I guess the closest thing
> > is the Tax File Number.
> >
> > However - the photocopying everything is *good* advice.
> >
> > I have heard similar advice about going overseas, which
> > I follow - I always take several photocopies of the
> > front page of my passport, and take one with me and
> > leave one here with someone I can contact easily. If
> > I then lose my passport or have it stolen it is then
> > much easier to replace.
> >
> > Regs
> >
> > Brian White
> > ( The list's lurking geek ... )
> >
> > At 23:26 14/11/2002, Rhonda wrote:
> > >
> > >I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is
good
> > >in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy what was
in
> > >my purse.
> > >Regards
> > >Rhonda.
> > >
> > >I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this out, but it
> sounds
> > >like good advice.
> > >A corporate attorney sent this out to the employees in his company...
> > >
> > >Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sides
> of
> > >each license, credit card, etc.
> > >You will know what you had in your wallet
> > >and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.
> Keep
> > >the photocopy in a safe place.
> > >
> > >We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed against us
in
> > >stealing a name, address, Social Security, credit cards, etc.
> Unfortunately
> > >I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen
> last
> > >month.  Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell
> phone
> > >package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to
> buy a
> > >Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving
> record
> > >information online, and more.
> > >
> > >But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this
> happens
> > >to you or someone you know: We have been told we should cancel your
> credit
> > >cards immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and
your
> card
> > >numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where you can find
> them
> > >easily.
> > >
> > >File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where it was
stolen,
> > >this proves to credit providers you were diligent, and is a first step
> toward
> > >an investigation (if there ever is one).
> > >
> > >But here's what is perhaps most important: (I never ever thought to do
> this)
> > >Call the three national credit reporting organizations immediately to
> place a
> > >fraud alert on your name and Social Security number. I had never heard
of
> > >doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an
application
> for
> > >credit was made over the Internet in my name.
> > >
> > >The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your
> information
> > >was stolen and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new
credit.
> By
> > >the time I was advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two
> > >weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done.
> > >
> > >There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves'
> > >purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert.
> > >Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw
my
> > >wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in).  It seems to have
> stopped
> > >them in their tracks.
> > >
> > >The numbers are:
> > >Equifax: 1-800-525-6285
> > >Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742
> > >Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289
> > >Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271
> > >
> > >We pass along jokes; we pass along just about everything.  Do think
about
> > >passing this information along.  It could really help someone.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >1438a9.jpg
> > >IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -
> > >Click Here
> >
>
>
> --

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Margie Perkins]

Julia

I agree with what you are saying about the anxiety. The pressure to be a perfect 
incubator - the guilt feltover doing this or doing that - and produce a perfect baby 
is big. I had an interesting conversation with a woman the other day. I supported her 
for her first baby's birth two years ago and have been invited back for the next one 
in April. Last time she was really worried about 'problems' and as she was 38years old 
had nuchal fold stuff done which looked ok so she didn't proceed with anything more 
but was stil anxious. This time, at 40, she is not doing any testing  because as she 
says 'I wouldn't do anything ( termination) and I know I'll manage, whatever I have 
to". So she has gained confidence through her first birth and two years. It was lovely 
to hear.

Margie

At Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:56:51 +1100, 
Julie Clarke ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Dear Sally
> I agree in theory that ultrasound can reduce anxiety over baby's
> wellbeing, however, when I started teaching classes 15 years ago
> everyone was mildly anxious over their baby's wellbeing, and 
> currently I
> find they are actually more anxious.
> How do I measure this ?
> By listening carefully during the large group and small group
> discussions in my classes.  The words they use to describe the 
> intensity
> of their anxiety etc.
> I find this psychological aspect very interesting.
> Let me pose this idea to all -
> I think that by putting ultrasound on the agenda of every pregnancy
> routinely the health dept are actually giving the impression they 
> EXPECT
> abnormalities.
> Further that if there are abnormalities they SHOULD be disposed of.
> I think that it is inferred to the expectant couples by the dept of
> Health.
> I have come to this conclusion because 15 years ago couples would 
> often
> agree - "Well we'd love it anyway even if there was something 
> abnormal"
> But I'm not hearing that anymore - in fact recently a man - a 
> first time
> Dad - in one of my classes said -
> " I'm really looking forward to it - I am really looking forward to
> having this baby as long as everythings all right."
> It spooked me for the moment and I went on to clarify that even 
> when
> babies have imperfections they still need our love -   
> after all who can claim to be perfect ?
> hug
> Julie Clarke
> Childbirth and Parenting Educator
> Transition into Parenthood
> 9 Withybrook Pl
> Sylvania  NSW  2224
> T. (02) 9544 6441
> F (02) 9544 9257
> M. 0401 265 530
> email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Sally
> Westbury
> Sent: Friday, 15 November 2002 11:44 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of 
> Ultrasound in
> Pregnancy
>  
> The women I work with usually don't have ultrasounds. It is easy 
> with
> this group of women who are making informed choices throughout 
> their
> journey. 
>  
> I approach ultrasound discussions from many viewpoints.
>  
> 1.   Safety?? Or lack of?? 
> 2.   The usefulness of the u/s,ie what will we do with the
> information that we gain, will the information change the 
> pregnancy or
> birth plan. In the harshest terms if at 18 week scan there was an
> abnormality would she terminate the pregnancy? 
>  
> When put in this light many choose not to have one.
>  
> Sometimes the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, for example a 
> woman
> so worried about whether her baby is 'normal' an ultrasound can be 
> of
> great benefit. Even then it just shows me that in fact what we 
> need to
> do is to work with this woman's belief in herself and trust in her
> pregnancy, birthing and parenting and so another bridge is crossed 
> on
> this particular journey.
>  
> It is not often clinically needed and even then often is not as
> enlightening as we would hope. For example a woman really worried 
> about
> having another big baby after a 3rd degree tear first time around 
> was
> assured that her baby was 3.6kg one week before the birth (even 
> though
> we thought this was not correct) was in fact 5.2kg.. (no this is 
> not a
> mistake 5.2kg) 
>  
> I guess in having a little review of the literature one that 
> reassures
> me that my general way of practicing is on track is that the use of
> ultrasounds has not changed outcomes for mother or baby. So in 
> light of
> the research u/s is just causing a lot of angst with misdiagnosis 
> and
> costs the health system huge amounts of money. (see Cochrane review
> http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab001450.htm )
>  
> Sally Westbury
>  
> -
> I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a 
> sonographer.  
> On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually very
> accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic 
> images
> but the information received is accurately calculated into a 
> composite
> picture - not an in

Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Oh, shucks, Edwina! I don't ask "why me?" I've had 
such incredible experiences in my life, I feel very privileged. I consider 
myself very rich. I declare, "Why -- MEE!!"
Love and hugs to you and Kasia,
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Vance & 
Edwina 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med 
school!
Aviva,I wish I could make the world a better and more 
fairer place.  I tooknow what it is like to make do and sometimes I 
look back with affectionand gratitude at the lessons I learned back 
then.  Now I am one of the"middle class" who adore being entertained by 
people such as you and Ihave a son who is desperate to get into your 
industry (in fact he has anaudition for a children's opera tomorrow).  
Life is often hard andunfair and just today I was wondering how I can be all 
that others wouldhave me be and yet still have the energy and strength to 
carry on.  Idon't know why some have to struggle while others can sail 
through life,but I do believe there is a purpose in all we do and I strongly 
cling tothe concept of Karma.  You have touched many of us through your 
input onthis list, Aviva.  I am a better person because of your touch 
in mylife.Thank you.  Chin up - I love you.Edwina 
:)Ps: love from Kasia too :P--This mailing list is sponsored 
by ACE Graphics.Visit  to 
subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Need help with a question asked in a c/ed class

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Only had nitrous oxide a couple of times; don't 
know whether it affected my asthma. Deep SLOW breathing is good for asthmatic 
lungs, so maybe she breathes too fast.
 
I used to work with a doctor in Amsterdam, who'd 
give us all a hit of it before my stretching and vocal dance classes! Turned 
everyone into rubber-legs. Great fun, but hey, it was Amsterdam. He was pretty 
amazing, had a success rate of over 80% at sending cancer 'into remission' 
(never said cured). Had patients who'd been in remission for 10 - 15 years after 
being given only weeks or months to live.
 
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Julie Clarke 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Need help with a question asked in a c/ed 
class


Hi 
all
A 
pregnant woman has asked me “Does nitrous oxide affect 
asthmatics

Re: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth

[Aviva Sheb'a]

ah, now for letting it go, Afro-Cuban dance is the 
way to go! 
grins,
aviva
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth
In a message dated 11/14/02 8:25:54 AM W. Australia Standard 
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
Ah, yes! and it's wonderful what happens to the perineum, vagina, 
  bladder and the whole woman when Belly Dance is taken up. I heartily recommend 
  it! Ditto 
with ballet dancing.  I did ballet as a child and into adulthood.  I 
hadn't realised how much I had used my pelvic floor muscles and all the rest 
during my ballet training, until I started doing pelvic floor exercises during 
pregnancy.  When our CBE teacher took us through pelvic floor exercises, I 
suddenly realised that I had been regularly - and by that I mean many times a 
day - exercising my pelvic floor, as a result of the ballet training that I had 
done.The big trouble for me, was actually being able to let me pelvic 
floor "go".Debbie SlaterPerth, WA 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Julie Garratt]

Hi :) Not a bad idea to photocopy all your travellers checks , plane tickets and your passport when going OS. Then leave a copy with your family at home in case you have any trouble.      Julie'',    - Original Message - From: Kirsten Blacker Sent: Friday, 15 November 2002 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!  as an Aussie existing in the USA, can I just say that our tax file numberdoesn't even begin to equal the value of the SS number. You can't even getthe PHONE connected without a SS number (I kid you not).  One of the thingsthat annoys me constantly is when I go to inservice I have to give my SSnumber along with my name when I sign attendance records. Of course I'm theonly idiot who doesn't know their SSN off by heart cos I've only had it fora year!!Kirstenwho only has 8 months to go- Original Message -From: "Brian White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:16 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!> This is obviously American advice - Australian's don't> have Social Security numbers. I guess the closest thing> is the Tax File Number.>> However - the photocopying everything is *good* advice.>> I have heard similar advice about going overseas, which> I follow - I always take several photocopies of the> front page of my passport, and take one with me and> leave one here with someone I can contact easily. If> I then lose my passport or have it stolen it is then> much easier to replace.>> Regs>> Brian White> ( The list's lurking geek ... )>> At 23:26 14/11/2002, Rhonda wrote:> >> >I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is good> >in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy what was in> >my purse.> >Regards> >Rhonda.> >> >I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this out, but itsounds> >like good advice.> >A corporate attorney sent this out to the employees in his company...> >> >Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sidesof> >each license, credit card, etc.> >You will know what you had in your wallet> >and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.Keep> >the photocopy in a safe place.> >> >We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed against us in> >stealing a name, address, Social Security, credit cards, etc.Unfortunately> >I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolenlast> >month.  Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cellphone> >package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved tobuy a> >Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my drivingrecord> >information online, and more.> >> >But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case thishappens> >to you or someone you know: We have been told we should cancel yourcredit> >cards immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and yourcard> >numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where you can findthem> >easily.> >> >File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where it was stolen,> >this proves to credit providers you were diligent, and is a first steptoward> >an investigation (if there ever is one).> >> >But here's what is perhaps most important: (I never ever thought to dothis)> >Call the three national credit reporting organizations immediately toplace a> >fraud alert on your name and Social Security number. I had never heard of> >doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an applicationfor> >credit was made over the Internet in my name.> >> >The alert means any company that checks your credit knows yourinformation> >was stolen and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new credit.By> >the time I was advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two> >weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done.> >> >There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves'> >purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert.> >Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my> >wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in).  It seems to havestopped> >them in their tracks.> >> >The numbers are:> >Equifax: 1-800-525-6285> >Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742> >Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289> >Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271> >> >We pass along jokes; we pass along just about everything.  Do think about> >passing this information along.  It could really help someone.> >> >> >> >> >1438a9.jpg> >IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -> >Click Here>> -> Brian White> Step Two Designs Pty Ltd> Knowledge Management Consultancy, SGML & XML> Phone: +612-93197901> Web:   http://www.steptwo.com.au/> Email: [E

[ozmidwifery] Seeking Midwife

[P & A Koziol]

Dear List
I am seeking assistance for a client who is leaving 
Australia to birth in Sri Lanka (!). She is now 22/52 and is currently planning 
to birth in Columbo but would dearly love some direct contact from a Midwife 'on 
the ground' to assist her. Does anyone have any contacts they could send me. 

Thanks in advance
Alesa
 
Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery 
EducatorMelbourne

Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Jodie Miller]

OK, just one more comment before I let the topic lie...

On Friday 15 November 2002 02:56, Marilyn Kleidon wrote:
> Just a couple of 2 cents on this. I think it is sad that people think this
> makes the pregnancy real or more real, surely by 20weeks there are other
> more real signs that signal this.

I suspect the majority of maternity workers who participate here meet 
predominantly happy, healthy expectant couples who want only what is best for 
baby.  To my (admittedly limited) experience many first time mothers are 
still waiting to feel their baby's first movements by the 20 wk anomoly scan 
so ultrasound provides their first true "bonding experience" with their 
babies.

Consider how the early use of ultrasound might impact on a drug abusing 
mother-to-be, or a heavy smoker or a woman considering an abortion.  As I 
mentioned before, I've heard of the scan being used in situations of 
unplanned pregnancy or to coax a reluctant father into responsibility.  There 
ARE situations where I feel the perceived benefit outweighs the perceived 
risk.  I do think people should have the informed right to the social use of 
ultrasound.

Jodie


On the other side these are computer
> generated images: some very clever person wrote a program that puts
> together all of the measurements from the sono and so produces a visual
> image, it is no more accurate or real for that matter than the measurements
> from which the percentiles for gestational age are generated. At best it is
> a sophisticated cartoon image of the baby. I should be careful I could be
> getting into a complicated esoteric discussion on reality.
>
> Oh well. In Seattle there lives an ultrasound technician who has bought her
> own machine and sells in utero u/s images to mums and dads who had no
> clinical reason to get an insurance paid u/s, there is always a business
> opportunity around. Amazingly, even a few (a very few) of our homebirth
> mums, who wouldn't have an anomaly scan for ethical reasons had one of
> these because they were cute??
>
> a!!!
>
> ps. I really do think this technology is great to have when it is needed!!
> However, because this is rare, people find reasons to use it more often for
> no good reason.
>
> marilyn
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sally Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:27 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in
> Pregnancy
>
> > My hesitation around ultrasound is that no-one can produce research to
> > prove that this is a safe thing to do. Until this is clarified I remain
> > one who will advocate the use of ultrasound for clinical indications
> > only rather than as a routine intervention.
> >
> > Sally Westbury
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jodie Miller [mailto:gympiegirl@;yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 2:16 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy
> >
> > Just an anecdote to add...
> >
> > Yoga pals and expectant friends of mine recently had
> > their 20 week scan at the Royal Women's Hospital
> > Brisbane and they came home with, not only the regular
> > B&W prints, but a set of *extraordinarily* detailed
> > colour "photos" of their baby's face in utero.  The
> > technician got so excited at the quality of image that
> > they were achieving and printed off some 8 or more
> > wonderful pictures for the parents-to-be to take home
> > and enjoy.
> >
> > I must say the images gave me shivers!  The level of
> > detail achieved was amazing... who could blame parents
> > for wanting to take advantage of this opportunity to
> > "meet" and bond with their baby?
> >
> > I've heard of ultrasound being used to help couples
> > accept their baby in unplanned pregnancy or of women
> > using the ultrasound scan to reign in a dad-to-be in
> > denial.
> >
> > My own two (soon to be three) experiences of the 20
> > week anomaly scan were extremely warm and wonderful
> > like a verification and validation that all was normal
> > and healthy with the added bonus of allowing us the
> > opportunity to learn our babies' gender - something
> > that I felt helped me to bond with my babies in utero
> > just that little bit more.  I made every effort to
> > call my husband to attend if I was referred for an
> > impromptu scan in later pregnancy and we always walked
> > away with a warm glow and a sense of familiarity with
> > our unborn member of the family.  We framed ultrasound
> > pictures and emailed scanned images to distant family
> > so that everyone was able to share our joyful
> > expectation.
> >
> > I realise that this technology is over-applied but
> > it's hard not to get excited when we are offered the
> > opportunity to see the unseeable.  Suddenly a
> > pregnancy becomes real, the baby becomes real and,
> > once actually viewed, it becomes easier to think of a
> > future with baby in it.
> >
> > Just my two cents,
> > Jodie 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Ultrasound in Pregnancy - Birthnews and ozmidwifery lists

[Jodie Miller]

Thank you Andrea, I was not aware of this situation...

Jodie



On Friday 15 November 2002 09:32, Andrea Robertson wrote:
> Hi Jodie,
>
> The Birthnews list (operated by Capers) is completely separate from the
> ozmidwifery list, which is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Some people choose to
> send their posts to both lists and then if there is a reply, it will pop up
> on both lists, unless Capers have deleted it from their list (which is
> moderated).
>
> Some of us are not allowed to use the Birthnews list - we are apparently
> not acceptable to Capers and our attempts to join are blocked by the
> moderator. Therefore, if you want to reach those of us who use the
> ozmidwfery list (everyone is welcome, it is not a moderated list) you may
> want to post in  both places.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrea
>
> At 17:08 14/11/2002, Jodie Miller wrote:
> >Is the mailing list shared btn Ozmid and Birthnews?  I only posted my
> >response
> >on Birthnews and was surprised to see it pop up here
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com

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Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound inPregnancy

[Sue Cookson]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy



Hi,
just thought I'd add part of an article on u/sounds cited recently on this list.
From: www.mayo.edu/ultrasound/news
> When ultrasound hits bone, Fatemi says, it can produce vibrations in a fetus's 
> sensitive hearing structure. A similar phenomenon occurs when you tap your 
> finger close to your ear. The sound seems loud to you because of the 
> vibrations produced in your ear, Fatemi says, but no one else in the room 
> would be able to hear the sound. Based on his experiments, Fatemi concluded 
> that ultrasound vibrations sound like the high tones of a piano, at about the 
> same volume as an approaching subway train.

Sounds like good fun eh??
Sue 

I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a sonographer.  
On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually very accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images but the information received is accurately calculated into a composite picture - not an interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the item being ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The images are an exact representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not an average or range in the same way that percentile graphs are.  
 
Hubby indicated that the best analogy for how an ultrasound image was produced was a photograph.  The only difference being that normal photography uses light waves while ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  They are all the forms of energy just osillating at different frequencies and thus the energy's ability to penetrate and the output as visualised by the human eye differs.  What ultrasound scanning does via the computer is allows us to see what ultrasound energy can see that is usually not visible to the human eye.  
 
As for the safety, hubby has indicated this is a very contentious issue in the industry.  Whilst there have been no studies that prove that ultrasound is safe - there is nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak correlations that prove it is dangerous.  It is a naturally occuring form of energy in our environment - given - not usually at the intensities used in ultrasound scanning.  Realistically to choose to or not to have ultrasound - whether for fetal wellbeing or anything else - is just a risk analysis.  The only difference between this and other things related to pregnancy and childbirth is that we don't have a specific bad outcome that says its risk percentage is X%.  
 
Using the arguement that it hasn't been proven safe will never work as I am sure that I could also prove using statistics that of all the babies born with Downs Syndrome that 80%+ of their mothers ate potatos or rice - does this then mean that these cause Downs Syndrome or alternatively if you eat these you have a X% risk of Downs Syndrome.   Until we have a specific outcome that can be proven to be caused by ultrasound, whilst eliminating other possible causes, we have no choice but to assume it is safe - if we don't then women should also be counselled against a myriad of other normal life activities that have at one time or another been questioned for links to medical problems (I remember computers and photocopier radiation to unborn babies being an issue in the early 80s).
 
By all means exercise caution and do not recommend unnecessary procedures but don't scare women of possible consequences when no such consequences have ever been proven.  Women get enough fear instilled in them from the obstetricians.
 
Far more valuable is to spend time educating women of the ones we know are dangerous with proven risks like drugs in pregnancy and unnecessary caesarean sections.
 
Debby
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Kirsten Blacker]

What about the Raine study done in Perth in the 
1990s? I thought that showed a link between multiple USS and decreased birth 
weight (albeit only 30g) and an increased risk of being SFGA?
Kirsten
in the USA where they do a USS every darn 
visit

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Debby 
  M 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy
  
  
  I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a sonographer.  
  
  On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually very 
  accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images but 
  the information received is accurately calculated into a composite picture - 
  not an interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the 
  item being ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The 
  images are an exact representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not 
  an average or range in the same way that percentile graphs are.  
   
  Hubby indicated that the best analogy for how an ultrasound image was 
  produced was a photograph.  The only difference being that normal 
  photography uses light waves while ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  
  They are all the forms of energy just osillating at different frequencies and 
  thus the energy's ability to penetrate and the output as visualised by the 
  human eye differs.  What ultrasound scanning does via the computer is 
  allows us to see what ultrasound energy can see that is usually not visible to 
  the human eye.  
   
  As for the safety, hubby has indicated this is a very contentious issue 
  in the industry.  Whilst there have been no studies that prove that 
  ultrasound is safe - there is nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak 
  correlations that prove it is dangerous.  It is a naturally occuring form 
  of energy in our environment - given - not usually at the intensities 
  used in ultrasound scanning.  Realistically to choose to or not to have 
  ultrasound - whether for fetal wellbeing or anything else - is just a risk 
  analysis.  The only difference between this and other things related to 
  pregnancy and childbirth is that we don't have a specific bad outcome that 
  says its risk percentage is X%.  
   
  Using the arguement that it hasn't been proven safe will never work as I 
  am sure that I could also prove using statistics that of all the babies born 
  with Downs Syndrome that 80%+ of their mothers ate potatos or rice - does this 
  then mean that these cause Downs Syndrome or alternatively if you eat these 
  you have a X% risk of Downs Syndrome.   Until we have a specific 
  outcome that can be proven to be caused by ultrasound, whilst eliminating 
  other possible causes, we have no choice but to assume it is safe - if we 
  don't then women should also be counselled against a myriad of other normal 
  life activities that have at one time or another been questioned for links to 
  medical problems (I remember computers and photocopier radiation to unborn 
  babies being an issue in the early 80s).
   
  By all means exercise caution and do not recommend unnecessary procedures 
  but don't scare women of possible consequences when no such consequences have 
  ever been proven.  Women get enough fear instilled in them from the 
  obstetricians.
   
  Far more valuable is to spend time educating women of the ones we know 
  are dangerous with proven risks like drugs in pregnancy and unnecessary 
  caesarean sections.
   
  Debby
   
  
  >From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of 
  Ultrasound in Pregnancy 
  >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:22:54 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight 
  Time) 
  > 
  >At the time I thought that the ultrasounds that i had were 
  lovely but they 
  >also caused me a lot of confusion. 
  >With katyelyn I did not want to know the sex of my baby but at 
  26 wks raced 
  >into the labour ward - terribly hperflexic the doctor called 
  for an 
  >ultrasound machine and announced - "she is about 750grams and 
  it looks like 
  >a girl to me." I instantly said - "But it could be a boy." I 
  would not 
  >believe her and I did not want to know. Just because I was sick 
  and having 
  >a premature baby didn't mean that i had wanted to know the sex 
  before it was 
  >born. And when she was born she had gained a week and was a 
  much better 
  >weight at 1010grams. 
  > 
  >Then with George they did an ultrasound (for a suspected false 
  labour which 
  >i know/knew was a pulled muscle) and told me that my baby at 29 
  weeks was 
  >1800grams and was going to be huge! Well, I am sure this 
  contributed to me 
  >fears during labour - I had a c/s for a 1010gram baby and this 
  "HUGE" baby 
  >who was 1800 at 29 weeks 
  >Nobody explained to me that his growth slowed down 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Kirsten Blacker]

as an Aussie existing in the USA, can I just say that our tax file number
doesn't even begin to equal the value of the SS number. You can't even get
the PHONE connected without a SS number (I kid you not).  One of the things
that annoys me constantly is when I go to inservice I have to give my SS
number along with my name when I sign attendance records. Of course I'm the
only idiot who doesn't know their SSN off by heart cos I've only had it for
a year!!

Kirsten
who only has 8 months to go

- Original Message -
From: "Brian White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!


> This is obviously American advice - Australian's don't
> have Social Security numbers. I guess the closest thing
> is the Tax File Number.
>
> However - the photocopying everything is *good* advice.
>
> I have heard similar advice about going overseas, which
> I follow - I always take several photocopies of the
> front page of my passport, and take one with me and
> leave one here with someone I can contact easily. If
> I then lose my passport or have it stolen it is then
> much easier to replace.
>
> Regs
>
> Brian White
> ( The list's lurking geek ... )
>
> At 23:26 14/11/2002, Rhonda wrote:
> >
> >I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is good
> >in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy what was in
> >my purse.
> >Regards
> >Rhonda.
> >
> >I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this out, but it
sounds
> >like good advice.
> >A corporate attorney sent this out to the employees in his company...
> >
> >Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sides
of
> >each license, credit card, etc.
> >You will know what you had in your wallet
> >and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.
Keep
> >the photocopy in a safe place.
> >
> >We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed against us in
> >stealing a name, address, Social Security, credit cards, etc.
Unfortunately
> >I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen
last
> >month.  Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell
phone
> >package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to
buy a
> >Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving
record
> >information online, and more.
> >
> >But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this
happens
> >to you or someone you know: We have been told we should cancel your
credit
> >cards immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and your
card
> >numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where you can find
them
> >easily.
> >
> >File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where it was stolen,
> >this proves to credit providers you were diligent, and is a first step
toward
> >an investigation (if there ever is one).
> >
> >But here's what is perhaps most important: (I never ever thought to do
this)
> >Call the three national credit reporting organizations immediately to
place a
> >fraud alert on your name and Social Security number. I had never heard of
> >doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an application
for
> >credit was made over the Internet in my name.
> >
> >The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your
information
> >was stolen and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new credit.
By
> >the time I was advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two
> >weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done.
> >
> >There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves'
> >purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert.
> >Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my
> >wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in).  It seems to have
stopped
> >them in their tracks.
> >
> >The numbers are:
> >Equifax: 1-800-525-6285
> >Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742
> >Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289
> >Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271
> >
> >We pass along jokes; we pass along just about everything.  Do think about
> >passing this information along.  It could really help someone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >1438a9.jpg
> >IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -
> >Click Here
>






> -
> Brian White
> Step Two Designs Pty Ltd
> Knowledge Management Consultancy, SGML & XML
> Phone: +612-93197901
> Web:   http://www.steptwo.com.au/
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Content Management Requirements Toolkit
> 112 CMS requirements, ready to cut-and-paste
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[ozmidwifery] Calling for book reviewers

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi listers,

We are once again looking for volunteers to add to our team of book 
reviewers. Each year we receive a number of new tiles that we add to our 
list on the web site and in our catalogue and as a service to our 
customers, we like to be able to point buyers to a review of the book to 
give them an idea of its style and content.

We need approximately another 10 people at this time (we still have some 
reviewers on our panel from almost 2 years ago) and are looking for those 
with varied backgrounds: midwives, consumers, educators, lactation 
consultants etc.

Before you rush in to reply, please don't offer unless you can promise to 
send a review within 2 months of receiving a book. You will be able to keep 
the book in return for your review, but this is not just an easy way to get 
a free book - we are asking you to do some work for us first!

As we have a range of titles available, we will try to match the book with 
your area of interest. An outline of how to prepare the review will be 
included. We are hoping to have all reviews completed and on our web site 
by the end of January.

If you are interested, please email me the following details:

Name
Postal address
Phone number
Area of interest/expertise

Thank you for your interest,

Andrea Robertson

-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Julie Clarke]

Dear
Sally

I
agree in theory that ultrasound can reduce anxiety over baby’s wellbeing,
however, when I started teaching classes 15 years ago everyone was mildly
anxious over their baby’s wellbeing, and currently I find they are
actually more anxious.

How
do I measure this ?

By listening carefully during the large group and
small group discussions in my classes.  The
words they use to describe the intensity of their anxiety etc.

I
find this psychological aspect very interesting.

Let
me pose this idea to all –

I
think that by putting ultrasound on the agenda of every pregnancy routinely the
health dept are actually giving the impression they EXPECT abnormalities.

Further
that if there are abnormalities they SHOULD be disposed of.

I
think that it is inferred
to the expectant couples by the dept of Health.

I
have come to this conclusion because 15 years ago couples would often agree –
“Well we’d love it anyway even if there was something abnormal”

But I’m
not hearing that anymore – in fact recently a man – a first time
Dad – in one of my classes said –

“ I’m really looking forward to it – I am really
looking forward to having this baby as long as everythings
all right.”

It
spooked me for the moment and I went on to clarify that even when babies have
imperfections they still need our love –   

after all who can claim to be perfect ?

hug



Julie
Clarke

Childbirth
and Parenting Educator

Transition
into Parenthood

9 Withybrook Pl

Sylvania 
NSW  2224

T.
(02) 9544 6441

F (02)
9544 9257

M.
0401 265 530

email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Sally Westbury
Sent: Friday, 15 November 2002 11:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW:
[birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

 

The
women I work with usually don’t have ultrasounds. It is easy with this
group of women who are making informed choices throughout their journey. 

 

I
approach ultrasound discussions from many viewpoints.

 

1.   Safety?? Or lack of?? 

2.   The usefulness of the u/s,ie what will we do with the information
that we gain, will the information change the pregnancy or birth plan. In the
harshest terms if at 18 week scan there was an abnormality would she terminate
the pregnancy? 

 

When put
in this light many choose not to have one.

 

Sometimes
the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, for example a woman so worried about
whether her baby is ‘normal’ an ultrasound can be of great benefit.
Even then it just shows me that in fact what we need to do is to work with this
woman’s belief in herself and trust in her pregnancy, birthing and
parenting and so another bridge is crossed on this particular journey.

 

It is
not often clinically needed and even then often is not as enlightening as we
would hope. For example a woman really worried about having another big baby
after a 3rd degree tear first time around was assured that her baby
was 3.6kg one week before the birth (even though we thought this was not
correct) was in fact 5.2kg.. (no this is not a mistake 5.2kg) 

 

I guess
in having a little review of the literature one that reassures me that my
general way of practicing is on track is that the use of ultrasounds has not
changed outcomes for mother or baby. So in light of the research u/s is just
causing a lot of angst with misdiagnosis and costs the health system huge
amounts of money. (see Cochrane review http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab001450.htm
)

 

Sally
Westbury

 

-

I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a
sonographer.  

On the accuracy
of the image representations they are actually very accurate.  Yes
the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images but the information
received is accurately calculated into a composite picture - not an
interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the item being
ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The images are
an exact representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not an average
or range in the same way that percentile graphs are.  

 

Hubby indicated that the
best analogy for how an ultrasound image was produced was a photograph. 
The only difference being that normal photography uses light waves while
ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  They are all the forms of energy just
osillating at different frequencies and thus the energy's ability to penetrate
and the output as visualised by the human eye differs.  What ultrasound
scanning does via the computer is allows us to see what ultrasound energy can
see that is usually not visible to the human eye.  

 

As for the safety, hubby
has indicated this is a very contentious issue in the industry.  Whilst
there have been no studies that prove that ultrasound is safe - there is
nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak correlations that prove it is
dangerous.  It is a naturally occurin

Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Debby, I agree with everything you have to say, 
however I think analogies always are dependent on the perceivers experience and 
knowledge. I guess to me saying that the ultrasonic image presented on the 3-D 
type photos are most like a photograph is saying that the computer program used 
to turn the u/s information into visual images (that lay people can understand) 
is like the photochemicals in the photographic paper turns the light energy into 
a visual image. I would agree. And add, that if you have worked in a dark room 
you know you can do wonderful carzy things to those images... a photographic 
image isn't always a true/real representation of the object (though it can be). 
But I said I didn't want to get into a discussion on reality, ehhh!  I 
guess I have seen several of these u/s photos over the last couple of years and 
they all look amazingly similar to me. I guess they mean more to the 
average person than the black and white ones that can look like an x-ray. I 
think as a diagnostic tool, u/s is really valuable, but for social/routine use 
questionable and not only because of the safety issues which I agree are quite 
controversial. It really is a case of informed choice and that is really hard 
when even the practitioners disagree.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Debby 
  M 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 2:43 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy
  
  
  I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a sonographer.  
  
  On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually very 
  accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images but 
  the information received is accurately calculated into a composite picture - 
  not an interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the 
  item being ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The 
  images are an exact representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not 
  an average or range in the same way that percentile graphs are.  
   
  Hubby indicated that the best analogy for how an ultrasound image was 
  produced was a photograph.  The only difference being that normal 
  photography uses light waves while ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  
  They are all the forms of energy just osillating at different frequencies and 
  thus the energy's ability to penetrate and the output as visualised by the 
  human eye differs.  What ultrasound scanning does via the computer is 
  allows us to see what ultrasound energy can see that is usually not visible to 
  the human eye.  
   
  As for the safety, hubby has indicated this is a very contentious issue 
  in the industry.  Whilst there have been no studies that prove that 
  ultrasound is safe - there is nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak 
  correlations that prove it is dangerous.  It is a naturally occuring form 
  of energy in our environment - given - not usually at the intensities 
  used in ultrasound scanning.  Realistically to choose to or not to have 
  ultrasound - whether for fetal wellbeing or anything else - is just a risk 
  analysis.  The only difference between this and other things related to 
  pregnancy and childbirth is that we don't have a specific bad outcome that 
  says its risk percentage is X%.  
   
  Using the arguement that it hasn't been proven safe will never work as I 
  am sure that I could also prove using statistics that of all the babies born 
  with Downs Syndrome that 80%+ of their mothers ate potatos or rice - does this 
  then mean that these cause Downs Syndrome or alternatively if you eat these 
  you have a X% risk of Downs Syndrome.   Until we have a specific 
  outcome that can be proven to be caused by ultrasound, whilst eliminating 
  other possible causes, we have no choice but to assume it is safe - if we 
  don't then women should also be counselled against a myriad of other normal 
  life activities that have at one time or another been questioned for links to 
  medical problems (I remember computers and photocopier radiation to unborn 
  babies being an issue in the early 80s).
   
  By all means exercise caution and do not recommend unnecessary procedures 
  but don't scare women of possible consequences when no such consequences have 
  ever been proven.  Women get enough fear instilled in them from the 
  obstetricians.
   
  Far more valuable is to spend time educating women of the ones we know 
  are dangerous with proven risks like drugs in pregnancy and unnecessary 
  caesarean sections.
   
  Debby
   
  
  >From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of 
  Ultrasound in Pregnancy 
  >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:22:54 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight 
  Time) 
  > 
  >At the time I thought that the ultrasounds that i had were 
  lovely but they 
  >also ca

[ozmidwifery] Thoughts on insurance.

[Rhonda]

   
  Our solicitor, in light of our situation, and not being able to get 
  insurance has suggested that we become Incorporated.  
  Because they have to sue us personally as the person who performed 
  the procedure - all of our assets would then be owned by the company and 
  could not be touched by personal litigation.  
  I guess this is something we never thought we would need to do but I 
  was thinking that midwives who are working without insurance could do the 
  same thing and therefore protect themselves at least from personal 
  litigation.
   
  I know it does not solve the problem - a bit like the "form to fill 
  out" it is just another measure to protect oneself.
   
  Has anyone else considered this option?
   
  Regards
  Rhonda





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Sally Westbury]

The women I work with usually don’t
have ultrasounds. It is easy with this group of women who are making informed
choices throughout their journey. 

 

I approach ultrasound discussions from
many viewpoints.

 


 Safety?? Or lack of?? 
 The usefulness of the u/s,ie
 what will we do with the information that we gain, will the information
 change the pregnancy or birth plan. In the harshest terms if at 18 week
 scan there was an abnormality would she terminate the pregnancy? 


 

When put in this light many choose not to
have one.

 

Sometimes the benefits outweigh the
disadvantages, for example a woman so worried about whether her baby is
‘normal’ an ultrasound can be of great benefit. Even then it just
shows me that in fact what we need to do is to work with this woman’s
belief in herself and trust in her pregnancy, birthing
and parenting and so another bridge is crossed on this particular journey.

 

It is not often clinically needed and even
then often is not as enlightening as we would hope. For example a woman really
worried about having another big baby after a 3rd degree tear first
time around was assured that her baby was 3.6kg one week before the birth (even
though we thought this was not correct) was in fact 5.2kg..
(no this is not a mistake 5.2kg) 

 

I guess in having a little review of the
literature one that reassures me that my general way of practicing is on track
is that the use of ultrasounds has not changed outcomes for mother or baby. So
in light of the research u/s is just causing a lot of angst with misdiagnosis
and costs the health system huge amounts of money. (see
Cochrane review http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab001450.htm
)

 

Sally Westbury

 

-

I had a
chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a sonographer. 


On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually
very accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images
but the information received is accurately calculated into a composite picture
- not an interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the
item being ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The images are an exact
representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not an average or range
in the same way that percentile graphs are.  

 

Hubby indicated that the best analogy for how an ultrasound image was
produced was a photograph.  The only difference being that normal
photography uses light waves while ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  They
are all the forms of energy just osillating at
different frequencies and thus the energy's ability to penetrate and the output
as visualised by the human eye differs.  What
ultrasound scanning does via the computer is allows us to see what ultrasound
energy can see that is usually not visible to the human eye.  

 

As for the safety, hubby has indicated this is a very contentious issue
in the industry.  Whilst there have been no studies that prove that
ultrasound is safe - there is nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak
correlations that prove it is dangerous.  It is a naturally occuring form of energy in our environment - given
- not usually at the intensities used in ultrasound scanning.  Realistically
to choose to or not to have ultrasound - whether for fetal wellbeing or
anything else - is just a risk analysis.  The only difference between this
and other things related to pregnancy and childbirth is that we don't have a
specific bad outcome that says its risk percentage is X%.  

 

Using the arguement that it hasn't been
proven safe will never work as I am sure that I could also prove using
statistics that of all the babies born with Downs Syndrome that 80%+ of their
mothers ate potatos or rice - does this then mean
that these cause Downs Syndrome or alternatively if you eat these you have a X%
risk of Downs Syndrome.   Until we have a specific outcome that can
be proven to be caused by ultrasound, whilst eliminating other possible causes,
we have no choice but to assume it is safe - if we don't then women should also
be counselled against a myriad of other normal life
activities that have at one time or another been questioned for links to
medical problems (I remember computers and photocopier radiation to unborn
babies being an issue in the early 80s).

 

By all means exercise caution and do not recommend unnecessary
procedures but don't scare women of possible consequences when no such
consequences have ever been proven.  Women get enough fear instilled in
them from the obstetricians.

 

Far more valuable is to spend time educating women of the ones we know
are dangerous with proven risks like drugs in pregnancy and unnecessary
caesarean sections.

 

Debby

 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Brian White]

This is obviously American advice - Australian's don't
have Social Security numbers. I guess the closest thing
is the Tax File Number.

However - the photocopying everything is *good* advice.

I have heard similar advice about going overseas, which
I follow - I always take several photocopies of the
front page of my passport, and take one with me and
leave one here with someone I can contact easily. If
I then lose my passport or have it stolen it is then
much easier to replace.

Regs

Brian White
( The list's lurking geek ... )

At 23:26 14/11/2002, Rhonda wrote:


I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is good 
in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy what was in 
my purse.
Regards
Rhonda.

I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this out, but it sounds
like good advice.
A corporate attorney sent this out to the employees in his company...

Place the contents of your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sides of
each license, credit card, etc.
You will know what you had in your wallet
and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.  Keep
the photocopy in a safe place.

We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed against us in
stealing a name, address, Social Security, credit cards, etc.  Unfortunately
I, an attorney, have firsthand knowledge because my wallet was stolen last
month.  Within a week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell phone
package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to buy a
Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving record
information online, and more.

But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this happens
to you or someone you know: We have been told we should cancel your credit
cards immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and your card
numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where you can find them
easily.

File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where it was stolen,
this proves to credit providers you were diligent, and is a first step toward
an investigation (if there ever is one).

But here's what is perhaps most important: (I never ever thought to do this)
Call the three national credit reporting organizations immediately to place a
fraud alert on your name and Social Security number. I had never heard of
doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an application for
credit was made over the Internet in my name.

The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your information
was stolen and they have to contact you by phone to authorize new credit.  By
the time I was advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two
weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done.

There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves'
purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert.
Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my
wallet away this weekend (someone turned it in).  It seems to have stopped
them in their tracks.

The numbers are:
Equifax: 1-800-525-6285
Experian (formerly TRW): 1-888-397-3742
Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289
Social Security Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271

We pass along jokes; we pass along just about everything.  Do think about
passing this information along.  It could really help someone.




1438a9.jpg 
IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click Here
<>-
Brian White
Step Two Designs Pty Ltd
Knowledge Management Consultancy, SGML & XML
Phone: +612-93197901
Web:   http://www.steptwo.com.au/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content Management Requirements Toolkit
112 CMS requirements, ready to cut-and-paste

Re: [ozmidwifery] Ultrasound in Pregnancy - Birthnews and ozmidwifery lists

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi Jodie,

The Birthnews list (operated by Capers) is completely separate from the 
ozmidwifery list, which is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Some people choose to 
send their posts to both lists and then if there is a reply, it will pop up 
on both lists, unless Capers have deleted it from their list (which is 
moderated).

Some of us are not allowed to use the Birthnews list - we are apparently 
not acceptable to Capers and our attempts to join are blocked by the 
moderator. Therefore, if you want to reach those of us who use the 
ozmidwfery list (everyone is welcome, it is not a moderated list) you may 
want to post in  both places.

Cheers

Andrea


At 17:08 14/11/2002, Jodie Miller wrote:
Is the mailing list shared btn Ozmid and Birthnews?  I only posted my 
response
on Birthnews and was surprised to see it pop up here


-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Debby M]

I had a chat with my hubby about this issue as he is a sonographer.  
On the accuracy of the image representations they are actually very accurate.  Yes the image is a computer composite of ultrasonic images but the information received is accurately calculated into a composite picture - not an interpretation - based on the measurements that bounce back off the item being ultrasounded be that a kidney, bloodflow or a baby.   The images are an exact representation of what the ultrasound wave bounced off not an average or range in the same way that percentile graphs are.  
 
Hubby indicated that the best analogy for how an ultrasound image was produced was a photograph.  The only difference being that normal photography uses light waves while ultrasound uses ultrasound waves.  They are all the forms of energy just osillating at different frequencies and thus the energy's ability to penetrate and the output as visualised by the human eye differs.  What ultrasound scanning does via the computer is allows us to see what ultrasound energy can see that is usually not visible to the human eye.  
 
As for the safety, hubby has indicated this is a very contentious issue in the industry.  Whilst there have been no studies that prove that ultrasound is safe - there is nothing but anecdotal evidence and weak correlations that prove it is dangerous.  It is a naturally occuring form of energy in our environment - given - not usually at the intensities used in ultrasound scanning.  Realistically to choose to or not to have ultrasound - whether for fetal wellbeing or anything else - is just a risk analysis.  The only difference between this and other things related to pregnancy and childbirth is that we don't have a specific bad outcome that says its risk percentage is X%.  
 
Using the arguement that it hasn't been proven safe will never work as I am sure that I could also prove using statistics that of all the babies born with Downs Syndrome that 80%+ of their mothers ate potatos or rice - does this then mean that these cause Downs Syndrome or alternatively if you eat these you have a X% risk of Downs Syndrome.   Until we have a specific outcome that can be proven to be caused by ultrasound, whilst eliminating other possible causes, we have no choice but to assume it is safe - if we don't then women should also be counselled against a myriad of other normal life activities that have at one time or another been questioned for links to medical problems (I remember computers and photocopier radiation to unborn babies being an issue in the early 80s).
 
By all means exercise caution and do not recommend unnecessary procedures but don't scare women of possible consequences when no such consequences have ever been proven.  Women get enough fear instilled in them from the obstetricians.
 
Far more valuable is to spend time educating women of the ones we know are dangerous with proven risks like drugs in pregnancy and unnecessary caesarean sections.
 
Debby
 

>From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy 
>Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:22:54 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) 
> 
>At the time I thought that the ultrasounds that i had were lovely but they 
>also caused me a lot of confusion. 
>With katyelyn I did not want to know the sex of my baby but at 26 wks raced 
>into the labour ward - terribly hperflexic the doctor called for an 
>ultrasound machine and announced - "she is about 750grams and it looks like 
>a girl to me." I instantly said - "But it could be a boy." I would not 
>believe her and I did not want to know. Just because I was sick and having 
>a premature baby didn't mean that i had wanted to know the sex before it was 
>born. And when she was born she had gained a week and was a much better 
>weight at 1010grams. 
> 
>Then with George they did an ultrasound (for a suspected false labour which 
>i know/knew was a pulled muscle) and told me that my baby at 29 weeks was 
>1800grams and was going to be huge! Well, I am sure this contributed to me 
>fears during labour - I had a c/s for a 1010gram baby and this "HUGE" baby 
>who was 1800 at 29 weeks 
>Nobody explained to me that his growth slowed down and that he was a normal 
>size at 42 weeks and that I wasn't having a monster. 
> 
>On that note I am sure that my body made sure that he grew fast just in case 
>someone took him out at 27 weeks. I really believe that my body put all in 
>to make this baby develop quickly and then once the danger time was over I 
>settled into enjoying being pregnant and his growth slowed to a normal pace. 
> 
>Regards 
>Rhonda. 
> 
> 
>---Original Message--- 
> 
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:47:17 
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in 
>Pregnancy 
> 
>Just a couple of 2 cents on this. I think it is sad that peop

Re: [ozmidwifery] accreditation

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] accreditation



Sorry, Laraine to have missed this post 
earlier:
 
As you are probably aware there are 2 types of 
professional midwives in the USA: Certified Professional Midwives (CPM's) and 
Certified Nurse Midwives (CNM's). CPM's are regulated by the various state 
regulatory bodies and by the National Association of Registered Midwives (NARM) 
and includes both direct entry and apprentice trained midwives as well as CNM's. 
CNM's are again regulated by the various states as above and the American 
College of Nurse Midwives (ACNM) there are direct entry programs to become a CNM 
and you would receive your RN too. This is a very brief synopsis. Any midwife 
who qualifies for practice in the USA would be qualified for independent 
practice there, that is the ONLY kind of practice that CPM's participate in, it 
is what they are qualified for. It is not legal to practice as a CPM in all 
states only about 19 or 20 at this time. To maintain the CPM qualification they 
must participate in continuing education and peer review which is 
documented.
 
 CNM's have a greater diversity of practice 
but in general it is all caseload/team midwifery which may be a hospital 
program, part of group practice with GP's and OBGYN's, a group practice of 
midwives, solo practice, they may or maynot have hospital privileges, they don't 
work shifts on the ward.  Because CNM's are qualified as nurses, they may 
legally extend their practice to include well woman care outside of the 
childbearing year where as CPM's are restricted to this period. Many CNM's are 
advanced nurse practitioners and so have quite extensive prescriptive 
privileges. YOU can find out much more by going to the ACNM web site: I think it 
is www.acnm.org and the MANA (Midwives 
Alliance of North America) site at www.mana.org and the NARM site also www.narm.org I think. If these websites don't 
work try a search using acnm, mana, or narm. Hope this is helpful.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan 
  Robinson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:14 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  accreditation
  On 4/11/02 10:36 AM, "Laraine Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Hi, I am currently undertaking my 
Masters in Mid, tackling the subject of accreditation/credentialling of 
independent midwives. In the light of current PI issues, and the NMAP push, 
I felt that all efforts at improving the 'professional image' would be 
positive. But, I am having great difficulty finding appropriate references. 
 I am aware of the ACMI guidelines and work for the Community Midwifery 
Program of WA but need to know what 'accreditation/credentialling is 
available for other MWs particularly in other states, but also other 
countries.  Also thanks Rhonda for the ant story... I am also trying 
that approach of 'God I know these references are out there, please help me 
find them'.  I have noticed a distinct lack of ants in the Library 
though where I spend much time so maybe I need to take up rock climbing. 
 Thanks, all help is appreciated, Laraine. Hi 
  LaraineIn NZ all midwife practitioners who take on their own case-load 
  reflect on their practice on a regular basis and submit their records to the 
  NZ College of Midwives annually. If the self-reflection process reveals some 
  perceived inadequacies in her practice the midwife can ask for a College 
  assessor to give guidance.It is one of the best systems to maintain 
  credentialling standards that I have ever seen and I’m sure you could get 
  details by emailing Karen Guilliland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> . I’m not sure 
  if this is still her email address but give it a try.Good luck with your 
  search, the NZ College would probably have references for you as 
  well.CheersJan__ Jan 
  Robinson 
     Phone/fax: 
  011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350 Independent Midwife Practitioner  
        e-mail: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8 Robin Crescent    
     
    www: 
    midwiferyeducation.com.au South Hurstville  NSW 
   2221   
   National 
  Coordinator, 
  ASIM__    

Re: [ozmidwifery] Angela Pridham and Robyn Skewes contact?

[Ann Grieve]

Dear Denise
Angela Pridham may be contacted through Wollongong Hospital where she is
the acting area clinical midwifery educator for the Illawarra Area
Health Service . Sorry don't know her email but the phone number should
be easy enough to find from directory assistance.
Cheers
Ann Grieve

Julie Clarke wrote:

>Part 1.1Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>Encoding: 7bit

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Re: [ozmidwifery] accreditation

[Jan Robinson]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] accreditation



On 4/11/02 10:36 AM, "Laraine Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi, I am currently undertaking my Masters in Mid, tackling the subject of accreditation/credentialling of independent midwives. In the light of current PI issues, and the NMAP push, I felt that all efforts at improving the 'professional image' would be positive. But, I am having great difficulty finding appropriate references.  I am aware of the ACMI guidelines and work for the Community Midwifery Program of WA but need to know what 'accreditation/credentialling is available for other MWs particularly in other states, but also other countries.  Also thanks Rhonda for the ant story... I am also trying that approach of 'God I know these references are out there, please help me find them'.  I have noticed a distinct lack of ants in the Library though where I spend much time so maybe I need to take up rock climbing.  Thanks, all help is appreciated, Laraine. 


Hi Laraine

In NZ all midwife practitioners who take on their own case-load reflect on their practice on a regular basis and submit their records to the NZ College of Midwives annually. If the self-reflection process reveals some perceived inadequacies in her practice the midwife can ask for a College assessor to give guidance.

It is one of the best systems to maintain credentialling standards that I have ever seen and I’m sure you could get details by emailing Karen Guilliland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> . I’m not sure if this is still her email address but give it a try.
Good luck with your search, the NZ College would probably have references for you as well.

Cheers
Jan


__
 Jan Robinson    Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350
 Independent Midwife Practitioner        e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 8 Robin Crescent         www:   midwiferyeducation.com.au
 South Hurstville  NSW  2221    National Coordinator, ASIM
__
 

  

[ozmidwifery] Fw: READ - TAKE HEED !!!

[Rhonda]

   
  I am not sure if these numbers work from Australia but the advice is 
  good in this day and age.  I would never have thought to photocopy 
  what was in my purse. 
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   I don't know if a corporate attorney actually sent this 
  out, but it sounds like good advice. A corporate attorney sent 
  this out to the employees in his company... Place the contents of 
  your wallet on a photocopy machine, do both sides of each license, 
  credit card, etc.  You will know what you had in your 
  wallet   and all of the account 
  numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel.  Keep the photocopy 
  in a safe place. We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's 
  committed against us in stealing a name, address, Social Security, 
  credit cards, etc.  Unfortunately I, an attorney, have firsthand 
  knowledge because my wallet was stolen last month.  Within a 
  week, the thieve(s) ordered an expensive monthly cell phone package, 
  applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to buy a 
  Gateway computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving 
  record information online, and more.But here's some critical 
  information to limit the damage in case this happens to you or someone 
  you know: We have been told we should cancel your credit cards 
  immediately.  But the key is having the toll free numbers and your 
  card numbers handy so you know whom to call.  Keep those where 
  you can find them easily.File a police report immediately in 
  the jurisdiction where it was stolen, this proves to credit providers 
  you were diligent, and is a first step toward an investigation (if 
  there ever is one).But here's what is perhaps most important: (I 
  never ever thought to do this) Call the three national credit 
  reporting organizations immediately to place a fraud alert on your 
  name and Social Security number. I had never heard of doing that until 
  advised by a bank that called to tell me an application for credit was 
  made over the Internet in my name.The alert means any company that 
  checks your credit knows your information was stolen and they have to 
  contact you by phone to authorize new credit.  By the time I was 
  advised to do this, almost ! ! ! two weeks after the theft, all the 
  damage had been done.There are records of all the credit checks 
  initiated by the thieves' purchases, none of which I knew about before 
  placing the alert.Since then, no additional damage has been done, and 
  the thieves threw my wallet away this weekend (someone turned it 
  in).  It seems to have stopped them in their tracks.The 
  numbers are:Equifax: 1-800-525-6285Experian (formerly TRW): 
  1-888-397-3742 Trans Union: 1-800-680-7289 Social Security 
  Administration (fraud line): 1-800-269-0271 We pass along jokes; 
  we pass along just about everything.  Do think about passing this 
  information along.  It could really help someone.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

Re: [ozmidwifery] salad tongs, crotchet hooks and the hover!

[Andrea Quanchi]

Just a funny note to add, I have a client who is a chef who while quite 
high on nitrous oxide claimed that the doctor was holding salad servers 
when she saw the forceps. After watching him apply obstertric cream to 
them said "see he's putting the dressing on them". Of course we all 
cracked up.
Andrera Q

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Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy

[Rhonda]

  At the time I thought that the ultrasounds that i had were lovely but 
  they also caused me a lot of confusion.
  With katyelyn I did not want to know the sex of my baby but at 26 wks 
  raced into the labour ward - terribly hperflexic the doctor called for an 
  ultrasound machine and announced - "she is about 750grams and it looks 
  like a girl to me."  I instantly said - "But it could be a 
  boy."  I would not believe her and I did not want to know.  Just 
  because I was sick and having a premature baby didn't mean that i had 
  wanted to know the sex before it was born.  And when she was born she 
  had gained a week and was a much better weight at 1010grams.
   
  Then with George they did an ultrasound (for a suspected false labour 
  which i know/knew was a pulled muscle) and told me that my baby at 29 
  weeks was 1800grams and was going to be huge!  Well, I am sure this 
  contributed to me fears during labour - I had a c/s for a 1010gram baby 
  and this "HUGE" baby who was 1800 at 29 weeks
  Nobody explained to me that his growth slowed down and that he was a 
  normal size at 42 weeks and that I wasn't having a monster.
   
  On that note I am sure that my body made sure that he grew fast just 
  in case someone took him out at 27 weeks.  I really believe that my 
  body put all in to make this baby develop quickly and then once the danger 
  time was over I settled into enjoying being pregnant and his growth slowed 
  to a normal pace.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  November 14, 2002 11:47:17
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] FW: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in 
  Pregnancy
   Just a couple of 2 cents on this. I think it is sad that 
  people think thismakes the pregnancy real or more real, surely by 
  20weeks there are othermore real signs that signal this. On the other 
  side these are computergenerated images: some very clever person wrote 
  a program that puts togetherall of the measurements from the sono and 
  so produces a visual image, it isno more accurate or real for that 
  matter than the measurements from whichthe percentiles for gestational 
  age are generated. At best it is asophisticated cartoon image of the 
  baby. I should be careful I could begetting into a complicated 
  esoteric discussion on reality.Oh well. In Seattle there lives an 
  ultrasound technician who has bought herown machine and sells in utero 
  u/s images to mums and dads who had noclinical reason to get an 
  insurance paid u/s, there is always a businessopportunity around. 
  Amazingly, even a few (a very few) of our homebirthmums, who wouldn't 
  have an anomaly scan for ethical reasons had one of thesebecause they 
  were cute??a!!!ps. I really do think this technology 
  is great to have when it is needed!!However, because this is rare, 
  people find reasons to use it more often forno good 
  reason.marilyn- Original Message -From: "Sally 
  Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:27 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
  [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in Pregnancy>> 
  My hesitation around ultrasound is that no-one can produce research 
  to> prove that this is a safe thing to do. Until this is clarified 
  I remain> one who will advocate the use of ultrasound for clinical 
  indications> only rather than as a routine 
  intervention.>> Sally Westbury>> -Original 
  Message-> From: Jodie Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]> 
  Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 2:16 PM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  Subject: Re: [birthnews] Social use of Ultrasound in 
  Pregnancy>> Just an anecdote to add...>> Yoga 
  pals and expectant friends of mine recently had> their 20 week scan 
  at the Royal Women's Hospital> Brisbane and they came home with, 
  not only the regular> B&W prints, but a set of 
  *extraordinarily* detailed> colour "photos" of their baby's face in 
  utero. The> technician got so excited at the quality of image 
  that> they were achieving and printed off some 8 or more> 
  wonderful pictures for the parents-to-be to take home> and 
  enjoy.>> I must say the images gave me shivers! The level 
  of> detail achieved was amazing... who could blame parents> 
  for wanting to take advantage of this opportunity to> "meet" and 
  bond with their baby?>> I've heard of ultrasound being used 
  to help couples> accept their baby in unplanned pregnancy or of 
  women> using the ultrasound scan to reign in a dad-to-be in> 
  denial.>> My own two (soon to be three) e

Re: [ozmidwifery] info on cholestasis

[Andrea Quanchi]

Has been discussed before so you could go to the archives of the list or 
try

http://www.angelfire.com/sc/weltin/icptreatment.html
http://www.demon.co.uk/charities/liver-t/obs_chol.html

(Happened to read this at work and know where the articles were)

Andrea Q

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RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!

[Vance & Edwina]

Aviva,
I wish I could make the world a better and more fairer place.  I too
know what it is like to make do and sometimes I look back with affection
and gratitude at the lessons I learned back then.  Now I am one of the
"middle class" who adore being entertained by people such as you and I
have a son who is desperate to get into your industry (in fact he has an
audition for a children's opera tomorrow).  Life is often hard and
unfair and just today I was wondering how I can be all that others would
have me be and yet still have the energy and strength to carry on.  I
don't know why some have to struggle while others can sail through life,
but I do believe there is a purpose in all we do and I strongly cling to
the concept of Karma.  You have touched many of us through your input on
this list, Aviva.  I am a better person because of your touch in my
life.

Thank you.  Chin up - I love you.

Edwina :)

Ps: love from Kasia too :P

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[ozmidwifery] Need help with a question asked in a c/ed class

[Julie Clarke]

Hi all

A pregnant woman has asked me
“Does nitrous oxide affect asthmatics?” and  “especially with regard to
the deep breathing?”  she feels that deep breathing triggers her asthma.

I would appreciate any comments and
suggestions in response please.

Julie Clarke

Childbirth and Parenting Educator

Transition into Parenthood

9 Withybrook Pl

Sylvania  NSW  2224

T. (02) 9544 6441

F (02) 9544 9257

M. 0401 265 530

email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Angela Pridham and Robyn Skewes contact?

[Julie Clarke]

Dear Denise

Robyn Skewes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sorry unable to assist with the other
address.

hug

 



Julie
Clarke

Childbirth
and Parenting Educator

Transition
into Parenthood

9 Withybrook
Pl

Sylvania  NSW 
2224

T.
(02) 9544 6441

F (02)
9544 9257

M.
0401 265 530

email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002
11:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Angela
Pridham and Robyn Skewes contact?

 



Dear Oz listers 





Are midwives  Angela Pridham
(Shoalhaven) or Robyn Skewes (new England) on this list or does some one have
their email contact details??
Denise Hynd