Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
haha as in Dr Bisits, the Australian obstetrician who spoke about reeducating people about breech births :)Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are "bisits", I don't think we have those in Canada. :-) GloriaEmily wrote: oh im so jealous ! how did bisits go? regards emilyGloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish all of you could have been here in Vancouver for the Breech Birth Conference. Maggie Banks (N.Z.) and Jane Evans (Brit.) did the midwives proud. GloriaMary Murphy wrote: Jo, I was exploring the thought that if the breech was stuck for so long it could have put uneven pressure on the lower segment for a long time and perhaps cause dehishance or pressure areas which could lead to necrosis and the following events. Not a criticism, merely a lateral thought. As a supporter of breech vaginal birth, I am interested in all the possible ramifications. It was a long delay. Perhaps for this individual woman a long delay with a cephalic presentation would be the same, however, the head is round and smooth and would cause even pressures? Who knows, as I said, just exploring possibilities. MMDo you really think that a massive PPH 2.5 weeks (WEEKS, not hours or days) after a ceaser that resulted in a nasty uterine infection is most likely to do with the breech presentation? If the babe was cephalic she still might have stuck at full dilation and had a c/s - would she have been less likely to have gotten an infection or have the PPH?At 6:21 PM +0800 2/4/06, Mary Murphy wrote:I guess this is why some advise c/s for breech, but it seems that this, ³She laboured to fully without any analgesia thenpushed valiantly for 3.5 hrs² is the problem. I was led to believe that if progress of the breech halted, then it was the time to change options. Mm-- Jo BourneVirtual Artists Pty Ltd--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
He did a great job. I didn't remember that was his name but he was a very welcome addition to the conference. Gloria Emily wrote: haha as in Dr Bisits, the Australian obstetrician who spoke about reeducating people about breech births :) Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are "bisits", I don't think we have those in Canada. :-) Gloria Emily wrote: oh im so jealous ! how did bisits go? regards emily Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish all of you could have been here in Vancouver for the Breech Birth Conference. Maggie Banks (N.Z.) and Jane Evans (Brit.) did the midwives proud. Gloria Mary Murphy wrote: Jo, I was exploring the thought that if the breech was stuck for so long it could have put uneven pressure on the lower segment for a long time and perhaps cause dehishance or pressure areas which could lead to necrosis and the following events. Not a criticism, merely a lateral thought. As a supporter of breech vaginal birth, I am interested in all the possible ramifications. It was a long delay. Perhaps for this individual woman a long delay with a cephalic presentation would be the same, however, the head is round and smooth and would cause even pressures? Who knows, as I said, just exploring possibilities. MM Do you really think that a massive PPH 2.5 weeks (WEEKS, not hours or days) after a ceaser that resulted in a nasty uterine infection is most likely to do with the breech presentation? If the babe was cephalic she still might have stuck at full dilation and had a c/s - would she have been less likely to have gotten an infection or have the PPH? At 6:21 PM +0800 2/4/06, Mary Murphy wrote: I guess this is why some advise c/s for breech, but it seems that this, She laboured to fully without any analgesia then pushed valiantly for 3.5 hrs is the problem. I was led to believe that if progress of the breech halted, then it was the time to change options. Mm -- Jo Bournee Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2/min or less.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just when you think the message isn't getting through...
Congratulations, Kelly, keep up the good work. Love Gloria Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: This is a perfect example of why I keep pushing promotion to the mainstream and why its S important. Sometimes you feel like you are getting nowhere, sometimes you feel like you are going backwards, but then, you see you are actually going a million miles ahead our work can be completely invisible to us at times. Heres a first post from a new member: Hi everyone! Just thought I would pop my head up and say hello! Ive been reading the BB forums for a couple of months now so I thought it was about time I posted something. My husband and I have just started on our TTC journey! Its a very exciting time in our lives (we got married in Fiji in December 2005) and we are both ecstatic at the thought of becoming parents. Ive found BB to be an absolute wealth of information. Theres such a sense of community here, no-one will judge you and youll find all the support you could hope for from both mums and wanna-be-mums! I feel privileged to share my TTC ups and downs with such a lovely bunch of ladies. I love reading the birth stories. What an inspiration you all are!!! At times youve had me grinning like a fool, giggling hysterically or almost bawling my eyes out! I initially thought that I wouldnt be able to handle the pain of a natural birth and would have to opt for a voluntary C/Sbut after reading your stories, I have done a complete about-face and am now embracing the miracle of bringing our child/ren into the world by natural birth! See, its not that hard lets keep it up wonderful women!!! Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please?
I have a friend who had an emergency hysterectomy and is still bfing the baby 3 yrs later. It can certainly be done. How very sad though. J - Original Message - From: Carol Van Lochem To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please? Hi Miriam, I broke out in goose bumps upon reading your post. I work at this hospital know of your friend, but have been off this weekend didn't know about this sad event until I saw it here. My sympathies to all. Please rest assured that she will be supported in her efforts to continue to breast feed if she wishes to. Hopefully her supply won't have been too badly effected Kind regards Carol Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:18:55 +1000 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:Sad Story, any help please? To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Hellowisewomen, Ipostedafewweeksagoaboutafriendofminewitha breechbabeat37+weekswhowasthinkingaboutan independentmidwifeforsupportatEastGippsland hospital.Ipromisedtoupdateyousoheregoes... ShehadSROMattermwithSOOCsoonafter.Laboured beautifullyathomeandonadmissiontolabourward was5-6cmanddoingwell.HerlovelyOBsameinand waswithherfortherestofthelabour. Shelabouredtofullywithoutanyanalgesiathen pushedvaliantlyfor3.5hrs.Theyhadbumonview whentheypartedherlabiabutababewhoseemedwell andtrulystuck.Aftersomediscussionitwasdecided togototheatreforsection.OBwasagainlovelywith skintoskininOT,nicefeedplusdadcuttingthe cord.Thisdespiteatrickysectionduetobabebeing solow. Therewassomedamagetoherbladder(itwas'nicked') plustotheupperposteriorvaginalwallwiththe difficultyofextractingherlittleonefromsucha low/tightposition.Shehadaprettyheftyloss(1000 ml,althoughwhoknowswithC/Sasdocumentedbya recentthread!). Sherecoveredwellbeingfitandhealthy,goinghome onday5.Hospitalcalledthenextdaytoaskherto comebackinforABprophylaxisforherdaughteras theanaesthetistattendinghadjustbeendiagnosed withwhoopingcough(WHAT!!).Backshewent,more worry,moredisruption.Twodayslatershehad significantabdotendernessandlowerbackpain,so backshewentagain.Nastyuterineinfection,onABs herself!!! Afteraweekoftreatmentthingsseemedtobe settling.Shewashome,feedinggoingwellandhermum visiting.Astheysatdowntodinnershefeltasmall gushofbloodandwenttothetoilettoinvestigate. Shecalledfromthebathroomforhelpandwhenhermum andpartnergottohershewaspale,unconsciousand lyinginahugepoolofblood. Ambulancewasgoingtotake15min,sotheybundled herintothecar,hazardlightsonandwentforit.At thehospitaltheygaveherblood,plateletsand gelofusineandcalledherOBin.After4-6hours thingsseemedtohavesettledandtheywereall keepingtheirfingerscrossed. Herconditiondeterioratedlaterintheeveningand theywenttotheatreforaDCandinvestigation.She wasinfullblownDICbynowsoconsentwasgainedfor anemergencyhysterectomy.WhenIspoketohersister todayshewasstillgroggybutok. WordscannotexpressthesadnessIfeel.Iamgoingto visitinacoupleofweekswhenkidsandclinical allowbutIamdesperatetodoanythingIcantohelp fromhere.Iknowshewillgetthe'youwon'tbeable tobreastfeedwiththatloss/trauma'talk,butIknow inmyheartifshecouldgetfeedinghappeningagain itwouldbeonenormal,beautifulthingshecould salvagefromthisexperience. Anythoughts,suggestions,assistancewouldbemost appreciated.IsowishIwerethere. Yoursinsisterhood,Miriam OnYahoo!7 Messenger-MakefreePC-to-PCcallstoyourfriendsoverseas. http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- ThismailinglistissponsoredbyACEGraphics. Visithttp://www.acegraphics.com.autosubscribeorunsubscribe. Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger
Re: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
Just a couple of thoughts. 1 Despite a 30min limit they cannot give you treatment without your consent. So as long as you arn't bleeding out you can take longer to deliver your placenta. Logic dictates you arn't going to refuse treatment if this becomes essential and you can always change to active managment if this really become necessary. 2 Early breastfeeding is good for you and for your baby and will probably help deliver your placenta sooner. On 4/3/06, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Physiological 3rd stage is usual in homebirths and I observe that pain is often when the placenta is separated and sitting in the cervix. The uterus is signaling, get it out. It is a sign for the woman to make efforts to expel it. This may be squat over a bucket, sit on the toilet or simply bear down. The pain goes when the placenta is expelled. Afterbirth pains then take over and this has already been discussed. Cheers, MM -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] quote of the week
I guess the word Paternal(ism) is the one that springs to mind. Another one with a negative conotation sadly. On 4/3/06, Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have found this thought provoking – And I am left wondering about the English language; we have a word for a male dominated society patriarchal, and a word for a female dominated society but I am at a loss to come up with the right word for a society in which the male and female genders are represented equally…. Perhaps the feminist society…. That's the world I'd like to live in… Warm hug Julie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2006 9:22 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] quote of the week So true, Mary. Women are the harshest judges of eachother. Some of the pregnancy/birth/parenting forums I read show this to be true in almost every topic. :( Jo On 02/04/2006, at 3:58 PM, Mary Murphy wrote: If I could wave my wand, our culture would be matriarchal...one of peace, of softness...where children are beloved, where women are revered and taken care of, where birth and mothering are honored and supported.— Raven Lang Midwifery Today Issue 70Wish this was true. It seems to me that women judge each other harshly. MM -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald
Hey David, did you get the article? Would love a copy. rgds mike On 3/31/06, Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey david I found the link to the paid version but couldn't find a downloadable copy which is unusual. http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/newsSearch.ac?page=1sp=nrmso=relevancedt=selectRangerc=10dr=1yearpb=all_ffxsfx=headlinesfx=textkw=revolutionsy=smh Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution Dads are almost social pariahs if they miss baby's birth, but inside the delivery suite they're also feeling unwanted, Danielle Teutsch writes. Sun Herald 26/03/2006 Cost - $2.20 1195 words It is produced by Sydney morning heralt BTW http://www.smh.com.au/ rgds mike On 3/31/06, Sally-Anne Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David I will try and get a copy for you but when a similar thing has happenned to me in rural Vic... if you call the paper they can send copies either directly to you or your local newsagent (if you have one !). As well as copies been kept in most libraries (public, uni etc) is worth keeping in mind. Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Great Birth Men at Birth To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald Dear Folks, Apparently last Sunday (26 March) in the Sun-Herald (Sydney paper) on page 76 there is an article called Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution. I provided some material for this article and the journalist was going to let me see it before it went to print. Unfortunately she never let me know it was being published last weekend and therefore I have been unable to get a copy of the article (I live outside Canberra and by the time I found out about it no Canberra newsagents had a copy). I have tried contacting the journo but she has gone on maternity leave! And the paper won't give me her contact details. Does anyone have a copy of it that they could send me? I will of course pay postage costs. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] after birth pains
Thanks one and all for your sharing your thoughts andexperiences. Gives me lots of things to discuss with this mum. lyn
Re: [ozmidwifery] Nitrous oxide
I'd like a copy or a link to your article if possible. rgds mike On 4/3/06, Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paivi, I realised that you meant this message for me personally, however I did want to let list readers know that my article on the hazards of using nitrous oxide for midwives is in the March issue of MIDIRS. I wrote this article using extensive research supplied by a midwife colleague in the UK and it was primarily aimed at the British midwives who frequently use Entonox in enclosed, unventilated labour rooms, often for many hours. There are significant health effects for midwives (and probably the women as well) and I have written these up in the article. Nitrous oxide affects DNA synthesis and removes Vitamin B12 from the body. That is probably the reason why miscarriage rates are high amongst midwives - the embryo may be damaged by either of these deficiencies and therefore not viable. It is recommended that midwives planning a pregnancy have their B12 levels checked before starting on a pregnancy and that they work in areas away from labour wards during the pregnancy (and possibly breastfeeding). There are other effects as well - chronic fatigue is also reported in midwives (and again may be a problem postnatally for women exposed to nitrous oxide for many hours during labour). I don't know of any research that suggests a link between nitrous oxide and Downs Syndrome. As soon as I can get this article available, you'll all have the references and full details. Regards, Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
Title: Message Thanks Katrina. I would like to reply to you off list, but your email doesn't seem to have come through with the group email. Can you drop me a note at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Nicola Nicola MorleyEditor - Scripture PlusBaptist Union of NSW ACTPrivate Bag 8, Glebe, NSW, 2037Australia - 2 - 43290597 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ceri KatrinaSent: Monday, April 03, 2006 10:33 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth painsHi NicolaWho are you seeing for your care??? The main thing to remember is to discuss all your wishes with the midwife on the day. If the midwife is aware of what your wishes are they can facilitate it better. From memeory (it has been a few months since I was in birthing suite) you have up to an hour for the placenta to come when using physiologically...this does lessen though if there is copious amounts of blood loss and you are symptomatic of having a PPH. As far as I know all of us in birthing suite facilitate skin to skin contact after birth, and encourage the baby to feed etc before anything is attended such as the weighing of the baby. We all like the baby to have a beautiful cuddle with mum. As for cord clamping, again, if the midwife is aware, she can facilitate the delayed clamping of the cord. From what I have seen, the physiological 3rd stage is no less painful than when having synto. I find it is the individual woman, and how she tolerates the pain in general. Some find it more painful, others find it a pleasureble sensation as there are no bones in the placenta and it expells easily. Some have a one huge contraction then the placenta births, then they have mild period pain. Most of them say it was nothing compared to the labour.Hope that helps...and if you have any other queries let me know.KatrinaOn 02/04/2006, at 8:05 PM, Nicola Morley wrote: This reminds me of a question I have after being a doula at a birth with a physiological 3rd stage. The mother in question chose physiological and found 3rd stagefar more painful than she had with 2 previously managed (synto) 3rd stages. So painful that she felt she couldn't hold her baby safely(apart from a brief cuddle in the moments following birth). They also only gave her 1/2 hour to deliver placenta physiologically, so she felt pressure to try and breastfeed before her and baby were really ready to try and get things moving. I have a couple of questions, partly "professional" for my future reference, and partly personal because I am considering options for my own birth! Is it normal for third stage to be more painful if done physiologically? Is it normal to set a time limit of 1/2 hour (this was at a low intervention, low risk only hospital - Wyong, whereas I am delivering at the more interventionalist Gosford so imagine it could be even less??? Anyone know who works at either of these hospitals?)? Early skin to skin contact with my baby, and time to allow baby to self attach to the breast are both more important to me than a physiological 3rd stage, so if choosing that option is a risk to either of those things I would prefer they gave me the synto (after waiting for cord to stop pulsing before clamping and cutting)!! Also, I didn't think to ask at the time, but what is the plan if the 1/2 hour is up and the placenta is not delivered? Can you give synto then, or is it too late and there are other things that need to be done? I am just thinking that if there is no problem delaying the synto, can anyone think of any good reason why I couldn't ask for a physiological 3rd stage, then if it was taking too long, or was too painful to hold baby, or I was being rushed to feed to get things moving, I couldn't just say, ok give me the synto then?? Nicola Trainee Doula -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 7:01 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] after birth pains Hi Lyn I don't know if this woman had actively managed or physiological 3rd stage with her first 2 but I know of one (now grand) multip whose 2nd birth I attended - she suffered dreadfully with after pains in all hosp births but has had the last couple at home with physiological 3rd stages and told me that the after pains have not been a problem . Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message -From: lyn lyn To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] Nitrous oxide
Hi Mike, The link isn't up on my website as yet - however I will email you a Word version of it to you privately, as the list can't handle attachments. Hope it is of interest. Regards, Andrea At 06:17 PM 3/04/2006, you wrote: I'd like a copy or a link to your article if possible. rgds mike -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
A bright lovely good morning to you all, In all of my groups, after fully explaining informed choice, I explain that there are three options for the women when choosing the way she would like to birth her placenta: 1. medically managed with an injection given into the thigh which will induce an artificially strong contraction to hasten the expulsion of the placenta and reduce excessive blood loss and this would be very appropriate for someone who is high risk for example; a smoker, a woman who drank alcohol very regularly throughout the later part of pregnancy, an anemic woman, those who have already had medical intervention such as an epidural, induction, etc. 2. to decline the injection 3. to take the wait and see approach... explaining to the midwife at the time (and write in the birth plan so partner understands... I would prefer to avoid the injection as a routine injection, preferring instead to hold my baby at my breast, to naturally stimulate oxytocin to expel my placenta, but am prepared to receive the injection if it is medically necessary for a big bleed I also explain the normal blood loss is 300 to 500 mls of blood and an excessive blood loss would be 600mls+ which would require an injection. There are three injections which are available for a pph or big bleed and they are Syntocinon, syntometrine and ergometrine, each one increasing in intensity and side effects such as nausea. I then simply explain that most women describe a normal physiological third stage as mild period pain, however usually this pain will increase with each subsequent baby and/or with medical intervention. As for after pains over the next 24-48 hours I am always careful to point out that this is normal and women are less likely to be overly concerned about it when they are very familiar with the very positive fact that it is the uterus returning back down to it's normal size... and that this is a very good thing and it is what a woman wants. It seems to me that with good strong positive reinforcement women recognise the benefits of normality - and keeping birth as normal as possible. I feel completely comfortable in emphasizing normality as the best, safest, and worth striving towards compared to routine or encouraged by friends (epidural), medical intervention. Warm hug to all, Julie Julie Clarke Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood Sessions 9 Withybrook Place Sylvania NSW 2224 Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] visit Julie's website: www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 6:15 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains Just a couple of thoughts. 1 Despite a 30min limit they cannot give you treatment without your consent. So as long as you arn't bleeding out you can take longer to deliver your placenta. Logic dictates you arn't going to refuse treatment if this becomes essential and you can always change to active managment if this really become necessary. 2 Early breastfeeding is good for you and for your baby and will probably help deliver your placenta sooner. On 4/3/06, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Physiological 3rd stage is usual in homebirths and I observe that pain is often when the placenta is separated and sitting in the cervix. The uterus is signaling, get it out. It is a sign for the woman to make efforts to expel it. This may be squat over a bucket, sit on the toilet or simply bear down. The pain goes when the placenta is expelled. Afterbirth pains then take over and this has already been discussed. Cheers, MM -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
I checked my own dialation with my fourth baby (waterbirth at home), it was short labour anyway, but I just wanted to know where bubs was at. I was sitting on my toilet, just leaned back and as clear as day was a ring/circle of about 5 cm. I was impressed with how obvious it was, amazing. About an hour later I was greeting my baby. With my third baby (waterbirth at home)I also checked for progress and was surprised to find a head about 3cm in, very inspiring to know that a hard, fast labour was in fact a quick one too, only 3 hours in total. I guess its up to the individual, nothing wrong with offering the idea to women and then those who are interested can seek more info on what to expect. Some women don't even want to know they havea vagina, others embrace it. cheers Megan. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxine WilsonSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 9:31 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie ClarkeSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Megan are you a midwife? Did you have some knowledge already or was that the first time you had felt a cervix in labour? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Megan Larry Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 10:18 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? I checked my own dialation with my fourth baby (waterbirth at home), it was short labour anyway, but I just wanted to know where bubs was at. I was sitting on my toilet, just leaned back and as clear as day was a ring/circle of about 5 cm. I was impressed with how obvious it was, amazing. About an hour later I was greeting my baby. With my third baby (waterbirth at home)I also checked for progress and was surprised to find a head about 3cm in, very inspiring to know that a hard, fast labour was in fact a quick one too, only 3 hours in total. I guess its up to the individual, nothing wrong with offering the idea to women and then those who are interested can seek more info on what to expect. Some women don't even want to know they havea vagina, others embrace it. cheers Megan.
[ozmidwifery] tamworth
Hi wise women, My nomadic step daughter who is now close to 28 weeks is booking in to Tamworth hospital today. Does anyone have any suggestions about the birthing services there, antenatal classes, support groups or any thing of the kind? At least she is close enough for me to get to if she doesnt birth too quickly, only about 3 1/2 hours away! Thanks Di.
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Julie Really this is just an extension of the info that is shared when talking about the difference between a 'ripe' and 'unripe' cervix. I encourage women to feel the difference within themselves ( as an at home activity!!) when we discuss non medical forms of induction, and I for one think that info can be very useful.not sure about VE in labouris this not another way of intellectualising the process? Cheers Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne - Original Message - From: Megan Larry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? I checked my own dialation with my fourth baby (waterbirth at home), it was short labour anyway, but I just wanted to know where bubs was at. I was sitting on my toilet, just leaned back and as clear as day was a ring/circle of about 5 cm. I was impressed with how obvious it was, amazing. About an hour later I was greeting my baby. With my third baby (waterbirth at home)I also checked for progress and was surprised to find a head about 3cm in, very inspiring to know that a hard, fast labour was in fact a quick one too, only 3 hours in total. I guess its up to the individual, nothing wrong with offering the idea to women and then those who are interested can seek more info on what to expect. Some women don't even want to know they havea vagina, others embrace it. cheers Megan. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxine WilsonSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 9:31 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie ClarkeSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
This is useful for checking your own dilation but I wish we weren't so obsessed with it in hospitals. It doesn't really tell us anything other than "Oh yes, you've dilated so far." and yet women's lives hinge on it. J http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/cervixlearning.html I think it should go in conjunction with these: http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/Evidence.htmhttp://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/guidelines.htmIn Midwifery Matters, Issue No. 81, Summer 1999 INVADERS OF PRIVACY Chris Warrenhttp://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/Privacy.htmhttp://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/suehanson.htmTo VE or not to VE? That is the questionSue Hanson - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Not a Midwife, but a very active birth consumer. From memory late in pregnancy, post dates and lots of niggles etc, I had a bit of a look see (feel) to see if there was anything happening and could locate the cervix, but I was also mindful of it being invasive and was really out of my own curiosity. I think that was also why I checked it in labour as well, my last oppurtunity to see if I could feel a dilating cervix. I am probably not your average birthing woman I suppose. Anyway I am pleased to have experinced it and that it was my decision for my reasons, no one elses. Cheers Megan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxine WilsonSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 10:07 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Megan are you a midwife? Did you have some knowledge already or was that the first time you had felt a cervix in labour? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Megan LarrySent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 10:18 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? I checked my own dialation with my fourth baby (waterbirth at home), it was short labour anyway, but I just wanted to know where bubs was at. I was sitting on my toilet, just leaned back and as clear as day was a ring/circle of about 5 cm. I was impressed with how obvious it was, amazing. About an hour later I was greeting my baby. With my third baby (waterbirth at home)I also checked for progress and was surprised to find a head about 3cm in, very inspiring to know that a hard, fast labour was in fact a quick one too, only 3 hours in total. I guess its up to the individual, nothing wrong with offering the idea to women and then those who are interested can seek more info on what to expect. Some women don't even want to know they havea vagina, others embrace it. cheers Megan.
[ozmidwifery] Sunrise
The baby whisperer was on Sunrise this morning - did anyone see it? Touting strict day time routines to make your baby sleep all night. You *need* to do [this] etc. No mention that every baby is different. I'm sure there would be a transcript of it up somewhere if anyone's interested. I haven't decided what to write in my email to them yet ;) Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email
Yet again we have another 'expert' telling us firstly that our babies *should* be sleeping through the night, and secondly that there is only one way to make them do this. Children's sleep cycles are so different to adults, that 'sleeping through the night' for them means a 5 hour stretch, not the 11 or so hours mentioned this morning. We are told we 'need' to force strict routines on our babies eating, playing and sleeping. Does this work for anyone? I get hungry at all different times of the day, and denying my body what it needs at the time is not healthy. Our babies tell us what they need, so we practice a child-led 'routine'. It is not a schedule dictated by times, but waiting for him to tell me when he's hungry/tired/ready to play, etc. I don't expect him to sleep all night - I certainly don't! What about getting a different breed of expert on to talk to parents about the realities of baby sleep. Most babies' sleep problems are, I'm sure, due to parents high expectations... then comes the guilt for 'giving in' and allowing your baby to sleep next to you *gasp* so that you can actually get some sleep yourself. There is nothing wrong with helping your baby to sleep in gentle ways, not forcing them to learn that no one will come to them if they cry in the night. For your next baby sleep expert, I nominate Pinky McKay. :) Thanks, Jo Watson (Mother and Midwife) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email
I'm pretty sure this one doesn't have children either. But at least she's more professional and composed than some other sleep experts I know. She's open to criticism and wont offer to sue as a first step LOL Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 1:03 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email Yet again we have another 'expert' telling us firstly that our babies *should* be sleeping through the night, and secondly that there is only one way to make them do this. Children's sleep cycles are so different to adults, that 'sleeping through the night' for them means a 5 hour stretch, not the 11 or so hours mentioned this morning. We are told we 'need' to force strict routines on our babies eating, playing and sleeping. Does this work for anyone? I get hungry at all different times of the day, and denying my body what it needs at the time is not healthy. Our babies tell us what they need, so we practice a child-led 'routine'. It is not a schedule dictated by times, but waiting for him to tell me when he's hungry/tired/ready to play, etc. I don't expect him to sleep all night - I certainly don't! What about getting a different breed of expert on to talk to parents about the realities of baby sleep. Most babies' sleep problems are, I'm sure, due to parents high expectations... then comes the guilt for 'giving in' and allowing your baby to sleep next to you *gasp* so that you can actually get some sleep yourself. There is nothing wrong with helping your baby to sleep in gentle ways, not forcing them to learn that no one will come to them if they cry in the night. For your next baby sleep expert, I nominate Pinky McKay. :) Thanks, Jo Watson (Mother and Midwife) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Sunrise
I thought she had died last year? Is that the one from the UK - I'm sure she had a heart attack!! Jane -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sunrise The baby whisperer was on Sunrise this morning - did anyone see it? Touting strict day time routines to make your baby sleep all night. You *need* to do [this] etc. No mention that every baby is different. I'm sure there would be a transcript of it up somewhere if anyone's interested. I haven't decided what to write in my email to them yet ;) Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Megan, I too am not a midwife but an active consumer and I have met many others similarly to you who are very aware and curious of their own body, who delight in the wonderful discoveries that pregnancy can bring. Yes, Maxine, you and I have had a terrific chat about all this in the recent past grin Warm hugs J Julie Clarke Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood Sessions 9 Withybrook Place Sylvania NSW 2224 Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] visit Julie's website: www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Megan Larry Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 11:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Not a Midwife, but a very active birth consumer. From memory late in pregnancy, post dates and lots of niggles etc, I had a bit of a look see (feel) to see if there was anything happening and could locate the cervix, but I was also mindful of it being invasive and was really out of my own curiosity. I think that was also why I checked it in labour as well, my last oppurtunity to see if I could feel a dilating cervix. I am probably not your average birthing woman I suppose. Anyway I am pleased to have experinced it and that it was my decision for my reasons, no one elses. Cheers Megan From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Maxine Wilson Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 10:07 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Megan are you a midwife? Did you have some knowledge already or was that the first time you had felt a cervix in labour? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Megan Larry Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 10:18 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? I checked my own dialation with my fourth baby (waterbirth at home), it was short labour anyway, but I just wanted to know where bubs was at. I was sitting on my toilet, just leaned back and as clear as day was a ring/circle of about 5 cm. I was impressed with how obvious it was, amazing. About an hour later I was greeting my baby. With my third baby (waterbirth at home)I also checked for progress and was surprised to find a head about 3cm in, very inspiring to know that a hard, fast labour was in fact a quick one too, only 3 hours in total. I guess its up to the individual, nothing wrong with offering the idea to women and then those who are interested can seek more info on what to expect. Some women don't even want to know they havea vagina, others embrace it. cheers Megan.
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Maxine, This is my own personal experience with self examination. I'm a midwife of ten years working in a hospital setting (ie have done plenty of V.E's!!) and when I had my first baby just over a year ago I laboured at home from 11am until midnight when I did my own examination and I could have sworn I felt a 5 cm dilated cervix with bulging membranes. From there I decided to go to the birth centre which was 45min away. I had strong regular contractions but coping fairly well at home in the shower. My husband was asleep - typical! When I arrived the midwife examined me (I didn't tell her I had performed my own) and she said I had a posterior closed and uneffaced cervix. I was baffled aboutthe discrepancyand absolutely mortified I, as a midwife, had arrived to the birth centre so early. She suggested we go home so I did. I screamed all the way home, stayed there for 1/2hr anddecided if I had to go another 12hrs with this intense pain I needed drugs and drove the 45 mins back fighting the urge to go to the loo for a poo. Arrived and jumped in the bath a screamed out a baby girl. Much to the midwife's surprise! My husband told her the head was out. Anyway, I'm still not convinced her examination was right looking at the time line of events, but I was coping so well at home and when I was told I hadn't even started to efface yet I lost the plot! When I arrived back the midwife must have thought I still had ages to go because I didn't received one word from her, let alone reassuring, that it was all O.K and I was nearing the end. Melissa - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie ClarkeSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
This is a small handout by Gloria Lemay (thanks Gloria) I give to clients about self checking. jo Self-Checking of Dilation and Descent From: Childbirth Quotes from Gloria Lemay http://www.birthlove.com/pages/gloria/quotes.html How to Check Your Own Cervix- it's not rocket science I think it's a good and empowering thing for a woman to check her own cervix for dilation. This is not rocket science, and you hardly need a medical degree or years of training to do it. Your vagina is a lot like your nose- other people may do harm if they put fingers or instruments up there but you have a greater sensitivity and will not do yourself any harm. The best way to do it when hugely pregnant is to sit on the toilet with one foot on the floor and one up on the seat of the toilet. Put two fingers in and go back towards your bum. The cervix in a pregnant woman feels like your lips puckered up into a kiss. On a non-pregnant woman it feels like the end of your nose. When it is dilating, one finger slips into the middle of the cervix easily (just like you could slide your finger into your mouth easily if you are puckered up for a kiss). As the dilation progresses the inside of that hole becomes more like a taught elastic band and by 5 cms dilated (5 fingerwidths) it is a perfect rubbery circle like one of those Mason jar rings that you use for canning, and about that thick. What's in the centre of that opening space is the membranes (bag of waters) that are covering the baby's head and feel like a latex balloon filled with water. If you push on them a bit you'll feel the baby's head like a hard ball (as in baseball). If the waters have released you'll feel the babe's head directly. It is time for women to take back ownership of their bodies. -Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC http://www.glorialemay.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 7:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains A bright lovely good morning to you all, In all of my groups, after fully explaining informed choice, I explain that there are three options for the women when choosing the way she would like to birth her placenta: 1. medically managed with an injection given into the thigh which will induce an artificially strong contraction to hasten the expulsion of the placenta and reduce excessive blood loss and this would be very appropriate for someone who is high risk for example; a smoker, a woman who drank alcohol very regularly throughout the later part of pregnancy, an anemic woman, those who have already had medical intervention such as an epidural, induction, etc. 2. to decline the injection 3. to take the wait and see approach... explaining to the midwife at the time (and write in the birth plan so partner understands... I would prefer to avoid the injection as a routine injection, preferring instead to hold my baby at my breast, to naturally stimulate oxytocin to expel my placenta, but am prepared to receive the injection if it is medically necessary for a big bleed I also explain the normal blood loss is 300 to 500 mls of blood and an excessive blood loss would be 600mls+ which would require an injection. There are three injections which are available for a pph or big bleed and they are Syntocinon, syntometrine and ergometrine, each one increasing in intensity and side effects such as nausea. I then simply explain that most women describe a normal physiological third stage as mild period pain, however usually this pain will increase with each subsequent baby and/or with medical intervention. As for after pains over the next 24-48 hours I am always careful to point out that this is normal and women are less likely to be overly concerned about it when they are very familiar with the very positive fact that it is the uterus returning back down to it's normal size... and that this is a very good thing and it is what a woman wants. It seems to me that with good strong positive reinforcement women recognise the benefits of normality - and keeping birth as normal as possible. I feel completely comfortable in emphasizing normality as the best, safest, and worth striving towards compared to routine or encouraged by friends (epidural), medical intervention. Warm hug to all, Julie Julie Clarke Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood Sessions 9 Withybrook Place Sylvania NSW 2224 Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] visit Julie's website: www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 6:15 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re:
RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Oh what a stressful experience I had something similar happen for my first vaginal birth (and labour) when I was examined I was only 3 but I thought I must have been 8 and felt really panicky and then within about 20 mins I was pushing and 15 minutes later my baby was born. But it was very disheartening thinking I didnt know where my body was at. I believe my VE was correct I was just having transitional type contractions with my cervix not far behind! It just reinforces the question of how useful is a VE? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Melissa Singer Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 2:04 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Maxine, This is my own personal experience with self examination. I'm a midwife of ten years working in a hospital setting (ie have done plenty of V.E's!!) and when I had my first baby just over a year ago I laboured at home from 11am until midnight when I did my own examination and I could have sworn I felt a 5 cm dilated cervix with bulging membranes. >From there I decided to go to the birth centre which was 45min away. I had strong regular contractions but coping fairly well at home in the shower. My husband was asleep - typical! When I arrived the midwife examined me (I didn't tell her I had performed my own) and she said I had a posterior closed and uneffaced cervix. I was baffled aboutthe discrepancyand absolutely mortified I, as a midwife, had arrived to the birth centre so early. She suggested we go home so I did. I screamed all the way home, stayed there for 1/2hr anddecided if I had to go another 12hrs with this intense pain I needed drugs and drove the 45 mins back fighting the urge to go to the loo for a poo. Arrived and jumped in the bath a screamed out a baby girl. Much to the midwife's surprise! My husband told her the head was out. Anyway, I'm still not convinced her examination was right looking at the time line of events, but I was coping so well at home and when I was told I hadn't even started to efface yet I lost the plot! When I arrived back the midwife must have thought I still had ages to go because I didn't received one word from her, let alone reassuring, that it was all O.K and I was nearing the end. Melissa - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
