Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Gift and Others, I hope you are well and good my friend. I must commend you for mustering sufficient courage to make the point about the sinking ship that we are. You have indeed taken it to a higher level in terms of the chosen method of cleansing the party. Whether this method is right or not is another matter. Your level of impatience with mediocrity is commendable. It is my wish that we all can assume intolerance against incapacity, mediocrity and outright counter-revolution. It is the lack of this intolerance which threatens the party. If we all assume indignation against the destruction of what is left of the PAC, we may be able to save it from total closure. The complexity lies here though: all these groups accuse each other of deviant agendas. So this begs the question: how deep is the damage on the party, and what precisely will it take to restore some respectable organisation. The jury is out on this one. Some argue that it is totally adulterated right from the centre, with divisions and mediocrity impacting on the young and old, themselves playing a part in that mediocrity as well. Others, hold a near religious view that somehow by some act the party will resuscitate. Over the years, in view of all of these, the party has developed a self-eating culture. The culture of quarels not for revolution but for side-shows. This has blinded many of us from even seeing the good in each other. It also interests me that we often talk of how opportunistic the charterists are. But equally how many amongst us share this opportunism with the charterists? Is it really true that a majority of us are not opportunistic and non-charterist minded ? We must differentiate the lack of exposure to opportunism from our ability to withstand it. Is it not true that there are many amongst us who given a chance would do just what the charterists are doing? So the reality may also just be the fact that our members are 'denied' a chance for opportunism; that if it were offered to them they will excel in it perhaps even better than the charterists themselves. These questions have kept me thinking long and hard. It is the same question that many here have asked. And rightly they fear that they too like a generation following Sobukwe 's, will get old, and old they are becoming, into irrelevance, having denied themselves a chance for revolutionary participation. How much of a disabler is the PAC in its current form. I have often argued that the agenda must supersede the vehicle. Yes, it never should be a lightly arrived at position to conclude that a vehicle is a wastage but it is a consideration we must brave and face. The stories of hurt and disappointment are many including how we elevate mediocrity and shun home talent. I and others have made a call for a focus on a program of action. I am having to handle my own exploding level of irritation at those pushing for conferences and elections of individuals who neither have a program of action nor capacity. I am up to here !!! For my sanity I will keep to the work on the program of action, and hope it is the PAC that will drive some of the ideas we share in the document. Izwe Lethu ! Matome Mashao Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:05:02 To: 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo Raymond' Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Izwe lethu Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a strong Party” Izwe lethu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the African Emancipation! From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi' Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkom
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe lethu Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a strong Party” Izwe lethu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the African Emancipation! From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi' Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference There is one stubborn truth that most people do not realise and it is this: “You cannot give anybody something that you do not have. You must have it first. If you do not have love, you can never give love to anybody. Likewise, when you give a positive a label ( description or attribute) to someone else, it means you also possess that attribute. When you attribute or ascribe a certain negative trait, attribute, quality or tendency to another person, you do that because you possess that trait, attribute, quality or tendency yourself, otherwise how would you recognise it in others?” Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a strong Party. Izwe lethu. Ngila Muendane. From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:15 PM To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika Nkrumah please poqo I am begging you, let us leave this matter because it adds no value to the future of the PAC. FIHLA On 11 Sep 2014 6:59 PM, "Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI" wrote: Conrade Fihla You are deliberately distorting everything I wrote and argued. It is evident you are personalising issues and also driving a character assasination. You have dismally failed to prove your
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
person/individual. The issue is what has being done by APLAMVA as a >> structure/ component structures in regards to the incarcerated APLA >> Comrades and this goes to an extent of questioning the political role and >> purpose of APLAMVA in the context of PAC’s Aims and Objective. If the two >> parallel existing APLAMVA have organisational plans and strategies, then >> let them be shared with PAC branches and members to dismiss and refute the >> following statement "we have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no >> action is taken to demand the release of incarcerated APLA combatants", >> empirically disapprove this statement you consider as “unfounded sweeping >> statements based on conjecture”. >> >> >> >> Remember, I sat at the NEC led by Cde Mogoba prior Tompi Seleke in 2000 >> and even after Tompi Seleke, I also served in the NEC of under Cde Pheko >> including the 2006 – until the Decree NEC of Cde Letlapa, there has been no >> programme nor report presented by APLAMVA in regards to a campaign >> demanding the release of imprisoned APLA comrades. We know of individual >> PAC Comrades such M’Afrika Sombu and M’Afrika Pheko who had always made >> efforts and rallied various NECs and component structures and members of >> PAC in regard to the plight of imprisoned APLA comrades. Hence the argument >> "None of the two existing APLAMVA NEC s have been seen in action demanding >> the immediate release of these comrades. But today, APLAMVA NEC comrades >> have a moral ground to point finger and identify failures of the PAC NEC >> members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrites". To make >> things worse, APLA is split into two feuding comrades, the questions is >> does this APLAMVA split contribute or impact in the PAC! >> >> >> >> Do not be personal when addressing this issues, let’s try to be objective >> and constructive Comrade Fihla! Personalising issues commonly defeats a >> debate and inquisition to have a better understanding. Lastly, I do accept >> your invite and as long as it’s not a piecemeal approach however a Plan of >> Action that seeks to Demand the Release Imprisoned APLA Fighters! >> >> >> >> Shango lashu >> >> Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* mrfihla08 [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* 11 September 2014 09:26 AM >> *To:* Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; payco@googlegroups.com >> *Cc:* nnyq...@gmail.com; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; >> mvakalijust...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; >> mphah...@eskom.co.za; tnta...@webmail.co.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; >> tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; >> takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; >> mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; znyam...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; >> celenjabulo...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; bulanng...@gmail.com; >> m...@soultalk.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; >> lucasmmol...@gmail.com; lea...@hotmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; >> po...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; >> pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; >> mapulankoan...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; >> goqwana.san...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; >> jntab...@gmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; >> mop...@pac.org.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; >> moshemahlom...@gmail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; >> mphothobej...@yahoo.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; >> 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; >> linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; >> paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; >> isaa...@diplomat-global.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; >> phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; >> hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; >> 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE'; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; 'Vusi Mahlangu' >> *Subject:* RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference >> >> >> >> M'Afrika Nkrumah, with due respect son of the soil, I would not like us to >> engage in rhetoric. All I was responding to are your unfounded sweeping >> statements based on conjecture. You know nothing or very little about what >> is happening concerning our comrades in prison. Hence I am inviting you to >> join me at your earliest convince on a visit to Boksburg prison.To quote >> wh
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
MoAforika Mvakali Izwe lethu, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more divided, as captured and shared by Cde Muendane. We see no logic attend the Bloemfontein 2014 Conference disunited! However, this is proposed way-forward! 1. The proposal to form a mediation team is worth consideration; 2.Mediation team should develop a party unification strategy and campaign which should entail:- a. The July 2012 Butterworth Congress elected NEC should reconstitute through mediation team; b.Mediation team should furthermore engage PAC comrades outside due suspensions, expulsions , disillusioned etc c.Re-establish PAC Head office and re-organise party administration; d.The July 2012 Butterworth Congress elected NEC should account to PAC branches and members; e.All parallel structures from regions to provincial structures including APLAMVA and PAYCO should be dissolved; f. Inclusive structures should be formed from regions to provincial; g.Constitutional structures mainly branches should be organised; h.Mediation team should furthermore oversee convening an inclusive national conference and national congress of PAC; i. Thus inclusive conference should be in reality inclusive and unifying based on principles and programme of action! Any Comments Ndima On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi < nrkgag...@gmail.com> wrote: > Shango lashu M’Afrika > > > > PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, *Birchwood > 2013 National Conference* organised by the same NEC comrades organising > the *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference*, *has dismally failed to > unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a > unity-and-revolutionary path*. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has > deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a > manner never seen in the history of the PAC, *Bloemfontein 2014 National > Conference* will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an > untenable organisational state. > > > > Boycott and denounce *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! * > > *Boycott!* > > > > *Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members!* > > * Unite!* > > > > *Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference!* > > *Forward * > > > > Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all > of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and > Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest > leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said > that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more > divided. To defeat factionalism and divisions, It is my strongest believe > that PAC branches and members must achieve principled unity. > > > > And those former PAC members who left PAC to form PAM must return to the > PAC, those PAC members who were suspended should also return to the PAC; We > must jointly and equally wage the struggle to reclaim-and –to- place PAC on > a revolutionary socialist path on a Pan African Scope to overthrow > capitalism and white supremacy. > > > > Shango lashu > > Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi > > 074 922 6361 > > *From:* Mbuyiselo Kantso [mailto:mbuyigan...@yahoo.com] > *Sent:* 10 September 2014 03:28 PM > *To:* payco@googlegroups.com > *Cc:* Ndade Mxunya; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; Kutie Thondlana; > sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; > Admin @ Pac; wgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; > river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; > takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashe; > tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; > lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; > paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; > pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; > Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; > dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; > goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; > joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; > lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; > bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; > ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; > m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; justice mvakali; > mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; > mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; > moshemahlom...@gmail.com; mon
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Masoga Do not display arrogance if you are serious about unity in the PAC, the statement you made that is "We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us.". It is a sign of arrogance and it further create us and them. No-one bedevilled you when you were organising a National Caucus, then respect other comrades views and proposals. Izwe lethu Ndima On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM, wrote: > > Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo > > Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are > within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. > > Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to > re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a > programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan > Africanist perspective. > > I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing > or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those > who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a > registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a > determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the > PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC > forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are > back in the PAC and are active. > > Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE > Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are > contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to > convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters > "Boycott Conference". > > We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. > Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. > > IAfrika > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > -- > *From: * "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" > *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com > *Date: *Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 +0200 > *To: *'Mbuyiselo Kantso'; > *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com > *Cc: *'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'< > kutie.thondl...@gmail.com>; ; 'mrfihla08'< > mrfihl...@gmail.com>; ; 'Admin @ Pac'< > ad...@pac.org.za>; ; 'eddie mfulwane'< > rammymfulw...@gmail.com>; ; < > river.mla...@telkomsa.net>; ; < > takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>; ; 'Xola Tyamzashe'< > tyamza...@yahoo.com>; ; < > isaa...@diplomat-global.com>; ; ; < > phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com>; ; < > paccapeme...@webmail.co.za>; ; < > pactshwanereg...@gmail.com>; ; < > pac.nc...@gmail.com>; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; < > pacaza...@webmail.co.za>; ; 'Sbusiso Xaba'< > sbusiso.x...@gmail.com>; ; ; > ; ; < > hlubi.so...@gmail.com>; ; ; > 'L Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; < > znyam...@gmail.com>; ; ; < > bennet_j...@yahoo.com>; ; < > ndhlo...@pac.org.za>; 'Nakaphala Bauba'; < > nnyq...@gmail.com>; ; ; > 'justice mvakali'; ; < > mphah...@eskom.co.za>; ; < > mphothobej...@yahoo.com>; ; < > moshemahlom...@gmail.com>; ; ; > ; ; ; < > vu...@telkomsa.net>; > *Subject: *RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference > > Shango lashu M’Afrika > > > > PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, *Birchwood > 2013 National Conference* organised by the same NEC comrades organising > the *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference*, *has dismally failed to > unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a > unity-and-revolutionary path*. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has > deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a > manner never seen in the history of the PAC, *Bloemfontein 2014 National > Conference* will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an > untenable organisational state. > > > > Boycott and denounce *Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! * > > *Boycott!* > > > > *Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members!* > > * Unite!* > > > > *Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference!* > > *Forward * > > > > Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all > of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and > Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest > leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said > that if we go
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Masoga Do not personalise the issues raised by attack me in person address issues raised directly. If there is justification to attend Bloemfontein September National Conference constructively share with us and persuade to attend! We have presented a political case that drawing from Birchwood and other events that instead of unity of PAC, we have seen Birchwood 2013 Conference deepening divisions and the high rate of disintegration of PAC! Hence, any parallel structure organising parallel events solidifies internal party feuding, factionalism therefore disintegration of the PAC. First aspect I am a paid up PAC member belonging to a branch; Secondly aspect, This is an open campaign against events which aims to further divisions and the disintegration of the PAC, like Birchwood 2013 Conference; Thirdly aspect, we must seek to re-mobilise all PAC members and branches under one roof, if former PAC comrades who formed PAM agree to return to PAC and form part of the process to rebuild and re-organise PAC, why should they be excluded? Fourth aspect, the Boycott the Bloemfontein Conference aims at defeating factionalism and mobilise PAC branches and members to an inclusive unifying national conference of PAC; Fifth aspect, I have not condemn any comrades who advocates any differing view, if there is please specify his/her name! Sixth aspect, We encourage and mobilise PAC branches and members to start unification process by organising inclusive regional and provincial meetings to defeat factionalism and disunity! Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mphi...@gmail.com Sent: 11 September 2014 11:12 AM To: payco@googlegroups.com; 'Mbuyiselo Kantso' Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'mrfihla08'; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 'Admin @ Pac'; wgaj...@gmail.com; 'eddie mfulwane'; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 'Tumediso Modise'; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; Simphiwe Nofuma; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; generalsecret...@sacwu.org.za Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan Africanist perspective. I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are back in the PAC and are active. Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters "Boycott Conference". We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. IAfrika Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device _ From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 +0200 To: 'Mbuyiselo Kantso'; ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'; ; 'mrfihla08'; ; 'Admin @ Pac'; ; 'eddie mfulwane'; ; ; ; ; ; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; ; ; 'Sbusiso Xaba'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'L Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'Nakaphala Bauba'; ; ; ; 'justice mvakali'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Shango lashu M’Afrika PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, Birchwood 20
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
...@gmail.com; jntab...@gmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; mop...@pac.org.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE'; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; 'Vusi Mahlangu' Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika Nkrumah, with due respect son of the soil, I would not like us to engage in rhetoric. All I was responding to are your unfounded sweeping statements based on conjecture. You know nothing or very little about what is happening concerning our comrades in prison. Hence I am inviting you to join me at your earliest convince on a visit to Boksburg prison.To quote what you wrote, "we have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of incarcerated APLA combatants". You go even further to say " None of the two existing APLAMVA NEC s have been seen in action demanding the immediate release of these comrades. But today, APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failures of the PAC NEC members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits". I am not sure what it is that I am misunderstanding in this sweeping and judgemental statement. What you are actually saying here is that you are the only one who has a high moral ground to point a finger at the wrongs of the NEC members. To you, the rest of us except yourself are hypocrites and therefore have no right to participate in debates about PAC issues. You unfortunately when you have not visited any of these comrades in prison and you instead want to use their plight for political point scoring. My advice to you son of the soil is that instead of wright ing about the comrades in prison, please visit them, please go there and support them. For your information, I will as I am always doing, be visiting the comrades in Boksburg prison this weekend. Accept my regards Fihla Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi Date:10/09/2014 10:41 (GMT+02:00) To: 'Mbulelo Raymond' , payco@googlegroups.com Cc: nnyq...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, i...@bataufc.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, wgaj...@gmail.com, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, tnta...@webmail.co.za, dud...@webmail.co.za, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, znyam...@gmail.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, payco@googlegroups.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, bulanng...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, monyanepin...@gmail.com, ad...@pac.org.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, lea...@hotmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, po...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dumisani...@gmail.com, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, jntab...@gmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, mop...@pac.org.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, s...@pac.org.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, digashuma...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pac.nc...@gmail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, 'APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE' , kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Good Morning M'Afrika Mashilo Clearly you have made your decision to Boycott the conference so you are within your Rights to do so as much as you are entitled to your opinion. Please let's respect decision of those who are prepared to make efforts to re - build the PAC. We all agree that the PAC must Unite and come with a programme that will change the Status Quo and challenge the System on Pan Africanist perspective. I am not sure if your Branch or you as an individual is in good standing or is the one that you refer to when you make a mention of Unity of those who left PAC and those of PAM which you seem passionate about. PAM is a registered Political Party and is a Legal Persona and should not be a determining Factor when we are suppose to hold a Conference to redirect the PAC, as we move and on, we will differ on methods of how to take the PAC forward. Those who left PAC did so Voluntarily and I know a few that are back in the PAC and are active. Comrade Ray I am personally not pleased with your BOYCOTT CONFERENCE Campaign, it is growing tension and promote dis unity. You are contradicting yourself by condemning those who differ with you, failing to convince them does not necessarily mean you have to use knuckle dusters "Boycott Conference". We are continuing Son of Soil with or without those who differ with us. Caucus 13/09/14 then Conference in Bloemfontein 27-28/09/14. IAfrika Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:25:52 To: 'Mbuyiselo Kantso'; Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Kutie Thondlana'; ; 'mrfihla08'; ; 'Admin @ Pac'; ; 'eddie mfulwane'; ; ; ; ; ; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; ; ; 'Sbusiso Xaba'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'L Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; 'Nakaphala Bauba'; ; ; ; 'justice mvakali'; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Shango lashu M’Afrika PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, Birchwood 2013 National Conference organised by the same NEC comrades organising the Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference, has dismally failed to unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a unity-and-revolutionary path. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a manner never seen in the history of the PAC, Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an untenable organisational state. Boycott and denounce Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! Boycott! Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members! Unite! Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference! Forward Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more divided. To defeat factionalism and divisions, It is my strongest believe that PAC branches and members must achieve principled unity. And those former PAC members who left PAC to form PAM must return to the PAC, those PAC members who were suspended should also return to the PAC; We must jointly and equally wage the struggle to reclaim-and –to- place PAC on a revolutionary socialist path on a Pan African Scope to overthrow capitalism and white supremacy. Shango lashu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 074 922 6361 From: Mbuyiselo Kantso [mailto:mbuyigan...@yahoo.com] Sent: 10 September 2014 03:28 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Ndade Mxunya; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; wgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.c
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Shango lashu M’Afrika PAC branches and members should not harbour any illusions, Birchwood 2013 National Conference organised by the same NEC comrades organising the Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference, has dismally failed to unite PAC and place all PAC branches and members on a unity-and-revolutionary path. Birchwood 2013 National Conference has deepened divisions and sowed conflict among PAC members and branches in a manner never seen in the history of the PAC, Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference will continue to consolidate a highly divided PAC with an untenable organisational state. Boycott and denounce Bloemfontein 2014 National Conference! Boycott! Unite and Defeat factionalism PAC branches and members! Unite! Forward to an Inclusive and Uniting PAC Conference! Forward Borrowing the comments made by former Chairman John Nyathi Pokela for all of us PAC Branches and members to reflect and ponder from Cde Muendane and Cde Ndima, PAC Chairman John Nyathi Pokela when he said One of the greatest leaders of this organisation, Nyathi Pokela, is on record as having said that if we go to a conference divided, we shall come out of it even more divided. To defeat factionalism and divisions, It is my strongest believe that PAC branches and members must achieve principled unity. And those former PAC members who left PAC to form PAM must return to the PAC, those PAC members who were suspended should also return to the PAC; We must jointly and equally wage the struggle to reclaim-and –to- place PAC on a revolutionary socialist path on a Pan African Scope to overthrow capitalism and white supremacy. Shango lashu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 074 922 6361 From: Mbuyiselo Kantso [mailto:mbuyigan...@yahoo.com] Sent: 10 September 2014 03:28 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Ndade Mxunya; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; wgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; justice mvakali; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde. Ndima You are spot except that you need to mention that Cde. Ndade and others had a task team which was working with the head office to prepare the regional. They handed their audited report the late Cde Wandi and Joko indicating the status of the branches. The people who actually presided over that conference were Cde, Bennet Joko, Wandi and Tebogo Rakoma. They lost in a congress organised by them(Ndade and Company), Moloto, Joko and Wandi after Cdes Abel, Busang and Apa warned the SG that in the Vaal is as easy he may think. Since that time Cde. Narius in particular never liked us and hence after he instructed us that we should go on a joint commemoration for Sharpeville Day it surprisingly became our thing. It was after that incident that I gave up on him and at least I told him. I was never in my life felt so betrayed by a leader at the level of an SG. On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 12:36 PM, Tongogara Ndima wrote: Comrade Ndade Your gripe is about councillor's seat hence you formed a parallel REC hoping to topple the other REC and find a way to become a councillor! We know, and ou have raised this several times in Sharpeville that Narius Moloto has being lobbying you and making offers. If Sedibeng Region had more councillor's seats, there would'not be parallel RECs in Vaal as it is the case today. Cde Ndade, for once be honest with us, you lost the regional leadership contest in a constitutional congress officiated by Cde Moloto and Cde Joko. But for group - factional interest you exploited divisions within the NEC, namely the Letlapa-Moloto conflcit by siding with Cde
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
t; > > >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi >wrote: > >M’Afrika >> >>I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given >>the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late >>as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC >>branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an >>illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has >>disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being >>questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are >>facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! >> >> >>PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a >>quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! >>According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has >>been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By >>Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde >>Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally >>suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling >>each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an >>inclusive national conference. >> >>There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to >>factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! >> >>This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive >>national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and >>organisational solution. >> >>Shango lashu >> >>Nkrumah >>From:payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] >>Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM >>To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za >>Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; >>ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; >>richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; >>takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; >>tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; >>lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; >>paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; >>pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; >>phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; >>smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; >>digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; >>hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L >>Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; >>billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com >> >>Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference >> >>Cde Kutie >> >>It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members >>for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the >>people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need >>to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an >>individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by >>you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should >>have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up >>with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can >>rest a little more is to be seen. >> >> >>On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana >> wrote: >> >>MaAfrika, >> >>An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a >>platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come >>up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure >>our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating >>success, let us not allow the
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
itutes > a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! > According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has > been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By > Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde > Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally > suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling > each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an > inclusive national conference. > > There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to > factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! > > This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive > national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and > organisational solution. > > Shango lashu > > Nkrumah > *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] > *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM > *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za > *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; > ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; > richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; > ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; > tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; > isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; > phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; > pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; > pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; > pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; > sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; > dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; > joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; > lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; > bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; > ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; > m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; > mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; > mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; > moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; > mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; > njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com > > *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference > > Cde Kutie > > It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members > for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the > people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need > to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an > individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by > you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should > have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up > with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they > can rest a little more is to be seen. > > > On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana < > kutie.thondl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > MaAfrika, > > An *All Inclusive* *Consultative Conference* may just be our answer. We > need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails > and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then > on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are > already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must > prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! > > > Izwe Lethu! > Kutie > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: > "All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . > what's wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song > The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring > that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to > maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, > to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective > principle will put us in a better place as an organization. > > iAfrika > > iAfrika > > > On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: > > Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu > > I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a > profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such > as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Greetings Bra Mike Muendane The letter you wrote and circulated is appreciated. The contents of the are fully confirmed that as PAC we are facing major crisis which should be arrested to salvage the PAC. However, the methodology to take the step is equally of significant importance thus deviating from constitutional provisions may compound the problem at hand, hence the notion that there be an inclusive national conference, which can be described also as an inclusive National Consultative Conference. The difficulty and weakness of a convention pertains its constitutional locus standi and secondly, you will recall that paper presented at the Vista Mamelodi Convention were never adopted not considered at Thohoyandou Congress and no-one has taken full responsibility nor can be held liable, this expounds the weakness of a methodology that seeks solutions acting outside the constitutional prescripts. Nonetheless, the very same objectives can still be fully realised through an inclusive PAC conference convene within the prescripts of the constitution Thirdly, the proposals in the document you circulated further suggests that " to set up a temporary task team of veterans of the party to guide, supervise and protect the National Executive Committee from the ongoing conflict". The question facing this proposal is the constitutionality of the "task team " in regard to power relations of NEC viz the Task Team! And, to subject NEC to act under the direction of a task team amounts to constitutional amendment. Above all, creating new structures does not necessarily resolve the deep seated ideological and organisation problems facing the PAC. Part of the problem facing the PAC is erosion of democratic centralism hence the notion that principles had been abandoned, coupled by the conflict of the two line ideological struggle/conflict. Fourthly, the assumption by this proposal is incorrect and false, that is, " In addition, members who have served the organisation for over 50 years are more jealous of the organisation and are assumed, by and large, to be desirous of leaving a legacy of unity in the party that they have sacrificed for so many years". Age is not necessary a barometer to asses ideological grounded-ness and clarity; And also, lest we forget that the existing three feuding NEC groupings are supported by some veterans, there are many PAC members coming from AZANYU and PASO some from the trade union movement such as CUSA aged with less than 50 years membership in PAC and they have made huge sacrifices for the PAC and for the African Revolution thus this negates the assumption made in you proposal. I strongly believe that the desire and determination to have revolutionary united PAC is a desire that cuts across all generations of PAC, however such a desire has become a burning fire among those still selfless and convicted to advance the revolutionary Pan Africanist Agenda as enshrined in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto. Shango lashu Nkrumah -Original Message- From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] Sent: 09 September 2014 08:38 PM To: 'Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI'; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihl...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; nnyq...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference I have decided to release the attached letter to the general membership because I haven't received any significant or meaningful response from the members to whom it was or
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrades, Can we elavate the level of discourse to focus on broader party building issues as opposed to narrow individual interests, personalities and factional positions. To a certain extent you reach a point of embarrassment when you follow the line of debate. Its even worse when its done by seasoned party cadres whom we have utmost respect and expect nothing other than guidance and decisive leadership. I humbly request cadres. Izwe lethu! Linda Ndebele Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: "'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:59:52 To: ; ; Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Greetings Cdes We have to accept and realise from all our points of conviction that the same area of convergence will be our first victory. Speculations and insecurities about the intentions of one or the other are probably our biggest obstacle. Open palm salute! On Tue, 9/9/14, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI wrote: Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 6:34 PM Izwe lethu Once more, this debate further confirms that the September National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two tongued characters! For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are highly divided and some are hiding their subjective interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that in as much as Cde Letlapa, Cde Mpethi and Cde Moloto, might have made serious political blunders/errors, they cannot be made to be 100% liable for the entire divisions and feuding thus factionalism in the PAC. Another example, there is a PAC PEC Member in Mpumalanga organising non-members to complete forms and increase numbers for the September National Conference, are we going to blame the put this corrupt activities on either Moloto NEC Grouping for this while exanorating and calling the very same Mpumalanga PEC member a comrade. There are many examples, we can use to show that deeply, the PAC branches and members particularly comrades who are at the forefront of everything to be directly responsible and are hypocrites. We have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of Incarcerated APLA combatants. Surely comrades, neither Cde Letlapa nor Cde Mpethi nor Cde Moloto is stopping your branches and members to picket and organise mass protests demanding the immediate release of all the unprisoned APLA conrades. None of the two existing APLAMVA NECs have been seen in action demanding tye release of these comrades, but today APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failers of the PAC NEC Members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits, as shocking and also this explains the de
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Cde Mvakali Maybe you are right son of the soil ngoba kuya gezwa apha kwa PAC On Monday, September 8, 2014 10:08 AM, "mvakalijust...@gmail.com" wrote: Cde I suggest u call a venting out meeting the nitshelane indaba zenu kahle, nishayane manishayana but at the end the Pac must move forward. Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! From: Mbuyiselo Kantso Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 23:32:21 -0700 To: payco@googlegroups.com; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi ReplyTo: Mbuyiselo Kantso Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; wgaj...@gmail.com; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; justice mvakali; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Dear Smal Zondo The main problem here is that you clowns running the party and hope you will get the PAC progressive. You say Mphahlele is out and I think you suggest the SG is this messiah of whom I am told he is supporting you financially and hence you don't suggest he is not out. Unfortunately a lot of us were never raised in an environment where seeking favours from the powers might is the order of the day. Just read the correspondences written by your SG and you have an answer under your nose and stop behaving like those opportunists who think this story around September conference will leverage them to assume leadership whom I can undoubtly see is for personal gratification. Lastly if you have observed the last elections circus you will know that even parties contesting regional elections don't display such a joke. Before you say anything around what you have raised you better know there is no dignity in people used as pawns in a just cause. Izwe Lethu On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:16 AM, Smoll Zondo wrote: Izwe Lethu The honest truth is that in PAC everyone speaks a lot of things here in media while doing nothing at all for the community or masses of Azania. Personally I am of the view that only cowards are within the rank and file of the PAC and its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we attack. The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? Regards, Thabani Zondo Tel : 072 020 5127 smollzo...@gmail.com HEAD OFFICE CENTENARY BUILDING CHURCH SQUARE PRETORIA 0001 TEL: 012 323 9892 FAX: 086 617 7851 PO BOX 5981 PRETORIA 0001 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi wrote: M’Afrika > >I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given >the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late >as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC >branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a not
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
lysis, the APLAMVA as component structure whose object should be political is supposed to advance the ultimate goal of Pan Africanism as elaborated by the former Secretary of Education Peter Raboroko, it can’t for it equally suffers a stranglehold of a comprador bourgeoisie leadership cartel feuding which has less or no interest to advance revolutionary socialist Pan Africanist line. Comrade Fihla, if you permit that one uses and extend the same Mao quotation where he alludes “Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense? The political conclusions of a Marxists-Leninist Party such as the PAC proceed from theoretical analyses and are constantly checked and regulated by them. That is the only way to assure a firm and consistent policy. As Trotsky says, in theoretical matters “we must keep our house clean”. The e-mail you narrowly contest further alludes the following, there are and has been so many caucuses ever since 2007/8 to date, but every caucuses have yielded no tangible results but the situation has worsened because the current crop of some PAC members and those with leadership ambitions are highly unprincipled and determined to break any law just to secure positions be they at the REC, PEC and NEC. PAC Branches and members have abandoned principles and the correct political line as enshrined in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto including all Basic Documents. A lot in the party is from branch level to members to national leadership is totally wrong and rotten! Gone are the principles in the PAC, as others argue to justify their conduct they claim that "people do eat principles". First task should be PAC branches and members should resolve their differences at a regional level first and unite! Then provincial inclusive meetings should be organised to consolidate the unity achieved at regional level! Lastly, as PAC Branches and members seek to forge principled unity and to re-build the PAC, they should equally be cognisant that internally PAC is facing a two line ideological struggle one being a revolutionary socialist Pan Africanist line while the other is comprador bourgeoisie line hiding under the cloak of African Nationalism! It then becomes of paramount importance, the provoke further inquisition will the unity and re-building of PAC be under which political line, the comprador bourgeoisie line? Or revolutionary socialist Pan Africanist line? Shango lashu Nkrumah From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] Sent: 09 September 2014 11:06 PM To: Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI Cc: nnyq...@gmail.com; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; tnta...@webmail.co.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; znyam...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; bulanng...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; ad...@pac.org.za; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; lea...@hotmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; po...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dumisani...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; jntab...@gmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; mop...@pac.org.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; digashuma...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 0825164...@vodamail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; APLAMVA WESTERN CAPE Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika Nkrumah I am really disappointed with you son of the soil. You know, Chairman Mao says "no investigation, no talk because if you speak without investigating you will speak nonsense". From your language
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Greetings Cdes We have to accept and realise from all our points of conviction that the same area of convergence will be our first victory. Speculations and insecurities about the intentions of one or the other are probably our biggest obstacle. Open palm salute! On Tue, 9/9/14, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI wrote: Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, payco@googlegroups.com Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, 0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 6:34 PM Izwe lethu Once more, this debate further confirms that the September National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two tongued characters! For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are highly divided and some are hiding their subjective interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that in as much as Cde Letlapa, Cde Mpethi and Cde Moloto, might have made serious political blunders/errors, they cannot be made to be 100% liable for the entire divisions and feuding thus factionalism in the PAC. Another example, there is a PAC PEC Member in Mpumalanga organising non-members to complete forms and increase numbers for the September National Conference, are we going to blame the put this corrupt activities on either Moloto NEC Grouping for this while exanorating and calling the very same Mpumalanga PEC member a comrade. There are many examples, we can use to show that deeply, the PAC branches and members particularly comrades who are at the forefront of everything to be directly responsible and are hypocrites. We have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is taken to demand the release of Incarcerated APLA combatants. Surely comrades, neither Cde Letlapa nor Cde Mpethi nor Cde Moloto is stopping your branches and members to picket and organise mass protests demanding the immediate release of all the unprisoned APLA conrades. None of the two existing APLAMVA NECs have been seen in action demanding tye release of these comrades, but today APLAMVA NEC comrades have a moral ground to point finger and identify failers of the PAC NEC Members. I find the extent of most comrades as being hypocrits, as shocking and also this explains the deep seated problems we are facing in the PAC. All PECs and RECs including all component structures are docile, dormant and moribound, relatively excluding PASMA with a serious qualification! There are and has been so many caucases ever since 2007/8 to date, but every caucuse have yielded no tangible results but the situation has worsened because the current crop of some PAC members and those with leadeship ambitions are highly unprincipled and determined to break any law just to secure positions be they at the REC, PEC and NEC. PAC Branches and members have abondaned principles and the correct political line as enshrined in the 1959 Pan Africanist Manifesto including all Basic Documents. A lot in the party is from branch level to members to national leadership is totally wrong and rotten! Gone are the principles in the PAC, as others argue to justify their conduct they claim that "people do eat principles". First task should be PAC branches a
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
ople used as pawns in a >just cause. > >Izwe Lethu > > >On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:16 AM, Smoll Zondo >wrote: > > > >Izwe Lethu > >The honest truth is that in PAC everyone speaks a lot of things here in media >while doing nothing at all for the community or masses of Azania. Personally I >am of the view that only cowards are within the rank and file of the PAC and >its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely >backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend >another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination >programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that >body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen >as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we >attack. > >The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that >have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were >long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as >members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now >recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now >is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else >must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? > > >Regards, >Thabani Zondo >Tel : 072 020 5127 >smollzo...@gmail.com HEAD OFFICE >CENTENARY BUILDING >CHURCH SQUARE >PRETORIA >0001 TEL: 012 323 9892 >FAX: 086 617 7851 >PO BOX 5981 >PRETORIA >0001 > > > > >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi >wrote: > >M’Afrika >> >>I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given >>the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late >>as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC >>branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an >>illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has >>disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being >>questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are >>facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! >> >> >>PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a >>quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! >>According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has >>been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By >>Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde >>Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally >>suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling >>each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an >>inclusive national conference. >> >>There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to >>factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! >> >>This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive >>national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and >>organisational solution. >> >>Shango lashu >> >>Nkrumah >>From:payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] >>Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM >>To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za >>Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; >>ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; >>richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; >>takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; >>tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; >>lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; >>paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; >>pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; >>phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; >>smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; >>digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; >>hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L >>Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; >>billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; > bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; > nnyq...@gma
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
il.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; >smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; >digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; >hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L >Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; >billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com > >Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference > >Cde Kutie > >It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for >their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people >they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have >an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to >do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. >Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now >that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those >who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more >is to be seen. > > >On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana > wrote: > >MaAfrika, > >An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a >platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come >up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure >our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating >success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made >the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! > > >Izwe Lethu! >Kutie >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: >"All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's >wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song >The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that >change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the >current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain >either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us >in a better place as an organization. > >iAfrika > >iAfrika > > >On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: >Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu >> >>I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a >>profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such >>as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against >>him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's >>faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus >>as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore >>take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. >> >>Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us >>instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that >>instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our >>factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the >>media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today >>however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting >>blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that >>created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. >>Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that >>does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC >>problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For >>now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make >>against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. >> >>Fihla >> >>
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
il.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; >phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; >smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; >digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; >hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L >Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; >billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com > >Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference > >Cde Kutie > >It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for >their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people >they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have >an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to >do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. >Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now >that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those >who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more >is to be seen. > > >On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana > wrote: > >MaAfrika, > >An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a >platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come >up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure >our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating >success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made >the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! > > >Izwe Lethu! >Kutie >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: >"All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's >wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song >The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that >change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the >current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain >either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us >in a better place as an organization. > >iAfrika > >iAfrika > > >On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: >Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu >> >>I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a >>profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such >>as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against >>him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's >>faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus >>as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore >>take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. >> >>Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us >>instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that >>instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our >>factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the >>media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today >>however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting >>blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that >>created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. >>Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that >>does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC >>problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For >>now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make >>against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe Lethu The honest truth is that in PAC everyone speaks a lot of things here in media while doing nothing at all for the community or masses of Azania. Personally I am of the view that only cowards are within the rank and file of the PAC and its component structures. I never see such a big organization moving entirely backwards while having a lot of intelligent comrades. Seemingly we will spend another 20 years revolving in courts struggles and character assassination programs. Let us say somebody recommends what needs to be done, Who is that body? Are we going to listen to that somebody? How long are we going to listen as PAC members? All what we spend time doing is to check who says what and we attack. The main issue here is not the party objective but personal objectives that have clouded the PAC Program. Super views which could have fixed the PAC were long cast out and thrown out of the table and nothing is learned by us as members. Mphahlele is out but the problem is still there in the PAC, now recently Mphethi is out but there is still a problem. What I can conclude now is that maybe all of us need to be out of PAC to allow PAC to grow, who else must be out of PAC for PAC to get it right? *Regards,* *Thabani Zondo* *Tel : 072 020 5127* *smollzo...@gmail.com * *HEAD OFFICE* *CENTENARY BUILDING* *CHURCH SQUARE* *PRETORIA* *0001* *TEL: 012 323 9892* *FAX: 086 617 7851* *PO BOX 5981* *PRETORIA* *0001* On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi wrote: > M’Afrika > > > > I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier > given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be > arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the > notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a > notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC > NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without > being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC > we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA > and PAYCO! > > > > PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes > a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! > According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has > been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By > Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde > Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally > suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling > each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an > inclusive national conference. > > > > There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to > factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! > > > > This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive > national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and > organisational solution. > > > > Shango lashu > > > > Nkrumah > > *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] > *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM > *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za > *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; > ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; > richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; > ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; > tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; > isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; > phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; > pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; > pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; > pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; > sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; > dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; > joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; > lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; > bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; > ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; > m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; > mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; > mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; > moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; > mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; > njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com > >
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Any initiative aimed at getting PAC right has to be supported. I am in and will lobby other comrades and branches to do the same. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:00:10 To: Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: 'Kutie Thondlana'; ; 'mrfihla08'; ; 'Admin @ Pac'; 'Wandisile Gajana'; 'eddie mfulwane'; ; 'Johnson Mlambo'; ; ; 'Tumediso Modise'; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; ; ; 'Alton Mphethi'; ; 'phillip Dhlamini'; ; 'Cape'; ; 'PAC TSHWANE'; 'PAC Mogale city PAC'; ; 'Phumzile Nomnga'; ; 'Narius Moloto'; 'Smoll Zondo'; 'Sbusiso Xaba'; ; 'Lehlogonolo Digashu'; Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M’Afrika Comrade Linda, Comrade and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by Cde Linda? We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common action plan to salvage the PAC! The disintegration of PAC must be arrested! Shango lashu NKrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 04 September 2014 03:31 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethi; lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrades, The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. The absence of substantive intellectual engagements "battle of ideas" drives us to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us "fish & chips" without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions. Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness. Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based PAC,militant and revolutionary. We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can lead PAC to find itself: 1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with boers, why not with our own? 2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity) 3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's 4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures) 5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party and develop a National Programme of Action for the party) 6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months) We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! _ From: Tongogara Ndima Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 +0200 To: payco@googlegroups.com <mailto:payco@googlegroups.com%3cpa...@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
M’Afrika Comrade Linda, Comrade and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by Cde Linda? We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common action plan to salvage the PAC! The disintegration of PAC must be arrested! Shango lashu NKrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 04 September 2014 03:31 PM To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethi; lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrades, The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. The absence of substantive intellectual engagements "battle of ideas" drives us to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us "fish & chips" without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions. Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness. Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based PAC,militant and revolutionary. We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can lead PAC to find itself: 1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with boers, why not with our own? 2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity) 3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's 4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures) 5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party and develop a National Programme of Action for the party) 6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months) We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! _ From: Tongogara Ndima Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 +0200 To: payco@googlegroups.com <mailto:payco@googlegroups.com%3cpa...@googlegroups.com> ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za <mailto:sndam...@pac-cape.org.za%3csndam...@pac-cape.org.za> ; mrfihla08; ; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com <mailto:richardma...@yahoo.com%3crichardma...@yahoo.com> ; Johnson Mlambo; ; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com <mailto:takalaniligeg...@gmail.com%3ctakalaniligeg...@gmail.com> ; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; ; ; Alton Mphethi; ; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za <mailto:p...@vodamail.co.za%3cp...@vodamail.co.za> ; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com <mailto:pasmapresid...@gmail.com%3cpasmapresid...@gmail.com> ; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com <mailto:pac.nc...@gmail.com%3cpac.nc...@gmail.com> ; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za <mailto:pacaza...@webmail.co.za%3cpacaza...@webmail.co.za> ; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za <mailto:dud...@webmail.co.za%3cdud...@webmail.
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrades, The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. The absence of substantive intellectual engagements "battle of ideas" drives us to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us "fish & chips" without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions. Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness. Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based PAC,militant and revolutionary. We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can lead PAC to find itself: 1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with boers, why not with our own? 2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity) 3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's 4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures) 5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party and develop a National Programme of Action for the party) 6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months) We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. Izwe lethu! Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: Tongogara Ndima Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 To: payco@googlegroups.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; ; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; ; ; Alton Mphethi; ; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; ; sandla goqwana; Solly Hlubi; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; sindi mbele; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Lucas Mmola; Zola Nyamela; Billiard Seth; bulanng...@gmail.com; ; ; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; Michael Muendane; Mapula Nkoana; justice mvakali; L.R. Mbinda; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; Malinge Plaatjie; ; Albert Mokoena; Moshe Mahlomola; Pinkie Monyane; mop...@pac.org.za; Ndade Mxunya; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; ; Dumisani Zwane; Vusi .Mahlangu Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Comrade Zondo Your statement makes sense but you are dishonest. Cde Moloto has been paying for yourself and Eddie Mfulwane to attend NEC meetings and support his positions as far back as 11 May 2013. Your PAYCO is not driving any PAC Programmes among the youths in the country buts has been a voting cattle for Moloto NEC Grouping. Some of your youths members like Eddie Mfulwane, Justice Digashu and others are paid by Moloto to do what Moloto seeks from PAYCO. PYACO has no provincial, regional structures across the country with only handful few branches. We know radical and revolutionary AZANYU As PAYCO you have no youth programmes to mobilise and challenge the dominance of the ANCYL, DA Youth Organisation is doing far much better. Remember, PASMA collapsed under your leadership with Eddie Mfulwane, now PAYCO will be written off! PAC with all its mistakes and weaknesses, we used to pride ourselves about militant and revolutionary AZANYU, PASO and PASMA leadership and membership which was ideologically sound and politically sharp but today PAYCO has become a shame. You are leading PAYCO and a small pocket size trade union? All this is just a money making scheme, typical of lumpens. Withdraw yourself from being scrop-lappie of some moneyed people i
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrades, I have been following your discussions attentively. Everyone is concerned even us who are outside PAC. We are what we are because of teaching and skills invested to us by PAC. We are expected to celebrate when PAC is in deep crisis and claim to vindicated. Instead, we are deeply hurt when people are making PAC a laughing stock. President Zuma offended me when said on live television, "Where is PAC?" and then laughed. We know the enemies of African people are celebrating for job well done. Continued divisions works in their favour. Comrades, action speaks more than words. It is not easy to rescue PAC without extraordinary means. We must jointly rational thinking more than emotions. Blame game will take us to nowhere. Fighting each other did not take us anywhere. I believe a well thought roadmap is the only answer to ''Rebuild the Broken Walls" of Pan Africanism in South Africa. The time is now or never! The only way to draw up this roadmap as I see it is to convene a Mammelodi-type of Convention of all Pan Africanists, not conference or caucus. That is my suggestion. I may be wrong. I see no other avenue. To me, it is only in a convention where we can do thorough introspection without factions competing for leadershp position. Election of NEC, we have seen, will take PAC nowhere but further division. That is my oinion! It's not gospel truth but just a suggestion in positive direction. Some people will ask why I am concerned about PAC matters? My answer is, I took a conscious decision to join PAC of 1959 and grew up in PAC because I believe it was the only vehicle for liberation in this country. That is why we fought so hard for PAM to adopt PAC Basic Documents because we still regard ourselves as members of PAC of Sobukwe in self-imposed exile in response to PAC crisis. Those who feel threatened by unity will disagree with me for their own reasons. It's their choice. Comrades, whether we like it or not, PAM outside there is seen as PAC in disguise. We cant the voters, rivals and enemies. When they see comrade Makwetu in PAM they all say there is PAC. It's fact! Izwe Lethu! -- Sent from my Nokia phone --Original message-- From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi To: ,"Kutie Thondlana" , Cc: "mrfihla08" ,,"L Lekgwathi" <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>"Nakaphala Bauba" ,,,,,,,,,, Date: Thursday, September 4, 2014 1:06:19 PM GMT+0200 Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference M'Afrika I fully agree with M'Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party's annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusi
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
om; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; >digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; >hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L >Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; >billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com > >Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference > >Cde Kutie > >It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for >their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people >they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have >an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to >do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. >Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now >that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those >who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more >is to be seen. > > >On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana > wrote: > >MaAfrika, > >An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a >platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come >up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure >our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating >success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made >the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! > > >Izwe Lethu! >Kutie >On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: >"All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's >wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song >The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that >change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the >current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain >either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us >in a better place as an organization. > >iAfrika > >iAfrika > > >On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: >Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu >> >>I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a >>profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such >>as Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against >>him. Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's >>faction was fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus >>as Secretary General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore >>take the blame for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. >> >>Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us >>instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that >>instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our >>factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the >>media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today >>however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting >>blame. Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that >>created divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. >>Please ma Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that >>does not take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC >>problems. Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For >>now, Moloto remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make >>against him will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are pushing factional interests. My proposal is that let us identify those aspects that can help us to unite the PAC instead of engaging in useless muddling. >> >>Fihla >> >> >>Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: "All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-09-04 10:14, mrfihla08 wrote: Ma Afrika Izwe Lethu > >I note that name calling and castigation of characters has become such a >profession in the PAC. What surprises me, is that the very individuals such as >Narius Moloto were paraded by some of us who are so vocal today against him. >Narius was appointed by Mphahlele as party builder and Mphahlele's faction was >fully behind him. He was subsequently elected at the Gcuwa circus as Secretary >General. Those who were part of the Gcuwa circus must therefore take the blame >for anything that they are opposing in Moloto today. > >Now, At what point ma Afrika are we going to talk about what can unite us >instead of all this mud slinging and divisive language? We all know that >instead of campaigning during the past elections, we were busy promoting our >factional interests, taking each other to court, making statements in the >media that decampaigned the PAC, and some of us even failed to vote. Today >however we are so good at criticising instead of collectively accepting blame. >Some of us who are talking today were part of Mphahlele's faction that created >divisive parallel structures and expelled some of us from the PAC. Please ma >Afrika let us stop with this childish and reactionary behavior that does not >take us anywhere. All we need now is genuine solutions to the PAC problems. >Factional statements and campaigns will not take us anywhere. For now, Moloto >remains secretary general of the PAC, all the noises we can make against him >will not help. The reality also here is that some of us are not genuine, we are not fighting Moloto because we have the interests of the PAC at heart. We are fighting Moloto because we are
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Comrade Zondo Your statement makes sense but you are dishonest. Cde Moloto has been paying for yourself and Eddie Mfulwane to attend NEC meetings and support his positions as far back as 11 May 2013. Your PAYCO is not driving any PAC Programmes among the youths in the country buts has been a voting cattle for Moloto NEC Grouping. Some of your youths members like Eddie Mfulwane, Justice Digashu and others are paid by Moloto to do what Moloto seeks from PAYCO. PYACO has no provincial, regional structures across the country with only handful few branches. We know radical and revolutionary AZANYU As PAYCO you have no youth programmes to mobilise and challenge the dominance of the ANCYL, DA Youth Organisation is doing far much better. Remember, PASMA collapsed under your leadership with Eddie Mfulwane, now PAYCO will be written off! PAC with all its mistakes and weaknesses, we used to pride ourselves about militant and revolutionary AZANYU, PASO and PASMA leadership and membership which was ideologically sound and politically sharp but today PAYCO has become a shame. You are leading PAYCO and a small pocket size trade union? All this is just a money making scheme, typical of lumpens. Withdraw yourself from being scrop-lappie of some moneyed people in PAC and focus on uniting and building PAYCO. Organise meetings and pursued Mpasha Pitso. Your Madadeni congress mandated that end of 2013 PAYCO must have an youth conference remain unfulfilled! PAC did not have youth during national elections because PAYCO only exists to vote during and at Moloto NEC meetings. Izwe lethu Ndima On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi wrote: > M’Afrika > > > > I fully agree with M’Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier > given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be > arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the > notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a > notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC > NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without > being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC > we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA > and PAYCO! > > > > PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes > a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! > According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has > been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By > Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde > Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally > suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling > each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an > inclusive national conference. > > > > There is no attack on the party’s annual conference but an attack to > factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! > > > > This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive > national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and > organisational solution. > > > > Shango lashu > > > > Nkrumah > > *From:* payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] > *Sent:* 04 September 2014 12:42 PM > *To:* Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za > *Cc:* mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; > ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; > richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; > ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; > tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; > isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; > phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; > pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; > pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; > pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; > sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; > dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; > joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; > lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; > bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; > ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; > m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; > mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; > mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; > moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
M'Afrika I fully agree with M'Afrika Kutie the enemies of PAC are more happier given the rate of disintegration of PAC. This disintegration must be arrested late as it might be! At a principled level, I disagree with the notion that PAC branches and members are fighting Cde Moloto for such a notion create an illusion that all is well in the PAC. Constitutionally PAC NEC has disintegrated and cannot execute any constitutional roles without being questioned, there are three NEC groupings claiming legitimacy. As PAC we are facing parallel structures across the country including in APLAMVA and PAYCO! PAC NEC elected at Butterworth Congress in July 2012 no longer constitutes a quorum for it has split into three unequal and non-quorating parts! According to e-mails and letters we saw since 11 May 2013, Cde Letlapa has been suspended and expelled, Cde Moloto has been suspended and expelled (By Cde Letlapa and now recently by acting President Mpethi), and allegedly Cde Mpethi has also being suspended! There are other NEC members equally suspended. So comrades in the NEC have resorted to suspending and expelling each other, while refusing to account to PAC branches and members at an inclusive national conference. There is no attack on the party's annual conference but an attack to factional feuding and weakening of the PAC! This feuding which weakens the PAC must be arrested, and only an inclusive national conference can take the PAC towards a lasting political and organisational solution. Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] Sent: 04 September 2014 12:42 PM To: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za Cc: mrfihla08; payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; L Lekgwathi; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Cde Kutie It is simple the enemies of the PAC are simply those who are using members for their individual purposes and to some extend in the interest of the people they serve out there. Let me assure you pretending there is no need to have an elected NEC organising a conference and rather preferring an individual to do so and who think he is everything can only be accepted by you and others. Leaders who grew in this party and with long service should have known by now that whatever they trying to in May 11 last will catch up with them and those who thought they will benefit out of that fiasco they can rest a little more is to be seen. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 11:06 AM, Kutie Thondlana wrote: MaAfrika, An All Inclusive Consultative Conference may just be our answer. We need a platform to address all the concerns mentioned in circulating emails and come up with a plan that will assist in rebuilding the PAC from then on. I'm sure our enemies operating within the party to destroy PAC are already celebrating success, let us not allow them that glory. We must prevent PAC from being made the ruling party Project. PAC must never die! Izwe Lethu! Kutie On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, wrote: "All these years fighting each other but there is no solution . . . what's wrong with us" - line in Lucky Dube's song The solution is you comrades. . . .lets get into our structures and bring that change. It is expected that there will be those who will try to maintain the current chaos by all means. Folding arms therefore won't help, to complain either so only active engagement to pursue a collective principle will put us in a better place as an organization. iAfrika iAfrika On 2014-
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
t;goqwana.san...@gmail.com, hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, >>jntab...@gmail.com, kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, 'L Lekgwathi' , >>lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, billiard.s...@gmail.com, bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, ndhlo...@pac.org.za, 'Nakaphala Bauba' , nnyq...@gmail.com, m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, mbind...@gmail.com, mrfihl...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, mnd...@yahoo.com, po...@yahoo.com, celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, dumisani...@gmail.com >>Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference >> >> >>Morning Cde. Raymond >> >>I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an >>individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all >>others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office >>bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly >>pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you >>maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any >>given. >> >>The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and >>the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must >>be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and >>balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness >>attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and >>ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference >>I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions >>and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. >> >> For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of >> time and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is >> since the Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its >> silence in the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG >> because if people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and >> suspensions and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough >> luck for PAC members and its future. Personally I hate people who like >> claiming things that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has >> developed capacity to operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak >> revolutionary theory to say the least. >> >>There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that >>is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious >>about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it >>was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President >>and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a >>revolutionary party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al >>what we are consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply >>see what works and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 >>years there as an SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, >>disorder, weekly suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of >>party operations. In short it does not matter how right he says things will >>remain the same. >> >>Izwe Lethu! >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi >> wrote: >> >> >> >>Izwe lethu M'Afrika >> >>Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you >>raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete >>obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. >> >>Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! >> >>Shango lashu >>Nkrumah >> >> >>-- Forwarded message -- >>From: "Admin @ Pac" >>Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM >>Subject: attack on party annual conference >>To: "Admin @ Pac" , , < >>rammymfulw...@gmail.com>, , < >>river.mla...@telkomsa.net>, , < >>takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>, , < >>tyamza...@yahoo.com>, , , >>, , , < >>p...@vodamail.co.za>, "Cape" , < >>pasmapresid...@gmail.com
RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Izwe lethu M'Afrika While I share the same sentiments with those advanced by comrade Linda, one dimension which we tend to omit is that we adopt a generalist approach and place all under the same political line, pertain the state of the party. Indeed, we should take collective blame however PAC is faced with a two line ideological struggle hence there is a refusal for an inclusive national conference. Therefore, a great amount of work is needed before the evil influence of the bourgeois reactionary line can be eradicated. The bourgeois reactionary line has its social basis which is mainly in the comprador bourgeoisie. The erroneous line has a certain audience inside the Party, because there exist the handful of persons inside the Party who are in power and are taking the capitalist road, and who regard this erroneous line as their protective talisman; and because there are still a considerable number of muddle-headed people inside the Party whose world outlook has not been remoulded or has not been effectively remoulded. A process is required for these comrades to return from the erroneous line to the correct line. Distinctions should be made among those who have committed errors of line. Those (there are only one, two or several persons) who have put forward the erroneous line should be distinguished from those who have put it into effect; those (these are a minority) who have consciously implemented the erroneous line should be distinguished from those (there is a large number of these) who have done it unconsciously; we should differentiate between those who have put it into practice to a serious extent and those to a not so serious extent; differentiate between those who cling to their mistakes and those who are willing to correct them and are already in the process of doing so. Generally speaking, the contradictions between those comrades who committed errors of line on the one hand and the Party and the masses on the other are still contradictions among the people. Provided that they can correct their errors, return to the correct stand and carry out the Party's correct line, it is not only possible for them to become cadres of the second category [comparatively good] or of the third category [those who have made serious mistakes but have not become anti-Party, anti-socialist Rightists], it is also possible for them to develop into cadres of the first category [good]. Nevertheless, these comrades must be sharply told that no matter who they are, and no matter how great their past achievements, if they cling to the erroneous line, the nature of the contradictions between them and the Party and the masses will change; the non-antagonistic contradictions then may become antagonistic contradictions and they will slide down the anti-Party and anti-socialist road. The mark distinguishing rectification of errors from stubborn adherence to them is the attitude towards the masses and whether they have publicly admitted before the masses that they have carried out the erroneous line; whether they have made serious efforts to reverse the decisions passed on those of the revolutionary masses who have been branded as "counter-revolutionaries," "anti-Party elements," "Rightists," "pseudo-Leftists but genuine Rightists"; and whether they have publicly rehabilitated them and support the revolutionary actions of the revolutionary masses. Shango lashu Nkrumah From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Ndebele Sent: 04 September 2014 10:55 AM To: payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Greetings comrades, Indeed our belovered movement is in crisis. The challenge is that we are in a denial mode. Those who are in control of levers of power hold a view that all is in order because they are in power and it will augur negatively if they accept that the party is getting weaker each day under their guard. Those who are outside of power, we hold a view that the party is in crisis, we don't blame ourselves but those in power. In isizulu we say "Inkombankombane, lowo nalowo uvikela ihlo lakhe". What makes one
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Greetings comrades, Indeed our belovered movement is in crisis. The challenge is that we are in a denial mode. Those who are in control of levers of power hold a view that all is in order because they are in power and it will augur negatively if they accept that the party is getting weaker each day under their guard. Those who are outside of power, we hold a view that the party is in crisis, we don't blame ourselves but those in power. In isizulu we say "Inkombankombane, lowo nalowo uvikela ihlo lakhe". What makes one not to see the light at the end of the tunnel, is that out of all these discussions we hardly find a convergence point in terms of the wayforward. Neither side presents any concrete plan and steps to rescue the party from the quagmire it finds itself. There has been two interesting calls made that have not been entertained to this end. 1. The holding of an all-inclusive Conference (whose aim would be to reconcile different factions, look at the state of the party and devise strategies and decisions that can resuscitate the PAC) 2. The call for a National Programme of Action (whose purpose would be to marshal our efforts and gear PAC for state power). I am quite certain comrades that hailing insults to each other and refusing to take collective responsibility to the current state of the party will not help our movement anyhow but will continue to discourage and demoralize our die-hard members and drive in droves young supporters to EFF and other political parties. Leaders who must take PAC forward are those who are prepared to take ownership to the mess PAC find itself and invite all to assist in cleaning up our movement. We need leaders who would be hands-on, selfless and who can rise above the problem. I believe PAC can be rescued only if we accept that we are in crisis, we all contributed to it and we need everybody's shoulder on the deck to get our movement out of this mess. Izwe lethu! Linda Kwame Ndebele Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: "'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" Sender: payco@googlegroups.com Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 23:41:17 To: payco@googlegroups.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; river.mla...@telkomsa.net; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; tyamza...@yahoo.com; tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; pac.nc...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; dud...@webmail.co.za; digashuma...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; hlubi.so...@gmail.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; jntab...@gmail.com; kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; 'L Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; znyam...@gmail.com; billiard.s...@gmail.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; 'Nakaphala Bauba'; nnyq...@gmail.com; m...@soultalk.co.za; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; mbind...@gmail.com; mrfihl...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mokoen...@workmail.co.za; moshemahlom...@gmail.com; monyanepin...@gmail.com; mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; po...@yahoo.com; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; dumisani...@gmail.com Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference Morning Cde. Raymond I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and some were drinking alc
Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
Morning Cde. Raymond I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing. For me arguing endlessly with this so called NEC powers it is a waste of time and the lesser we talk about this SG the better it is. The truth is since the Butterworth Congress the PAC was never in politics and hence its silence in the political activities of the country. I don't blame the SG because if people who work with him attend meetings to discuss people and suspensions and expulsions and then call that progress in the party tough luck for PAC members and its future. Personally I hate people who like claiming things that don't exist and for me to suggest the party has developed capacity to operate behind enemy lines is cheap and weak revolutionary theory to say the least. There is only one lesson we can draw from this post Butterworth NEC and that is when we approach the leadership issue we must all be sober and be serious about it. I think the reason why the PAC was successful from its inception it was mainly due to the facts I raised above and they elected office President and SG and put the leadership which had what it takes to build a revolutionary party. It is more than 24 months since we had an NEC but al what we are consuming is a blame game. I have enough years in PAC to simply see what works and what wont work. You can have Cde Moloto for the next 100 years there as an SG all you are going to have is cheap manipulation, disorder, weekly suspensions and poor performance of PAC at all levels of party operations. In short it does not matter how right he says things will remain the same. Izwe Lethu! On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:10 PM, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi wrote: Izwe lethu M'Afrika Comrade Linda, the attached documents, once more confirms the question you raised. But the task facing all of us, it is to salvage the PAC from complete obliteration waged by the feuding 'NEC'. Founding leaders of PAC are turning in their graves! Shango lashu Nkrumah -- Forwarded message -- From: "Admin @ Pac" Date: 02 Sep 2014 3:44 PM Subject: attack on party annual conference To: "Admin @ Pac" , , < rammymfulw...@gmail.com>, , < river.mla...@telkomsa.net>, , < takalaniligeg...@gmail.com>, , < tyamza...@yahoo.com>, , , , , , < p...@vodamail.co.za>, "Cape" , < pasmapresid...@gmail.com>, , < pacmogalec...@gmail.com>, , < phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za>, , "Narius Moloto" < s...@pac.org.za>, , , < sbusiso.x...@gmail.com>, , , "Delano Maloney" , , < hlubi.so...@gmail.com>, , , , "Lekgathi" <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>, < lucasmmol...@gmail.com>, , , < bulanng...@gmail.com>, , "bulelanim1718" < bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com>, , < nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com>, , "Michael Muendane" < m...@soultalk.co.za>, , , , , "Mohlomphegi Mphahlele" < mphah...@eskom.co.za>, , , , , "Pinkie Monyane" < monyanepin...@gmail.com>, , , < po...@yahoo.com>, Cc: , , < river.mla...@telkomsa.net>, Izwe Lethu Please find the attached for your attention. Pass the message to other structure and members. Regards PAC of Azania Tel : 011 331 3415/ 14/ 11 Fax : 086 527 0380 Email : ad...@pac.org.za Website: www.pac.org.za *A SHORT SAYING OFTEN CONTAINS MUCH WISDOM* -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pan Africanist Youth Congress" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website
