Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: In keeping with the FLOSSmanuals methodology, we need a story to tell when introducing lists. I have the intro done, but now we need a story (i.e. developing an example program). I was thinking that a story involving only lists of numbers would be a good place to start. Sorry for not being able to contribute much currently (I'm moving houses) but I think a neat usecase for lists and meta messages (which are important to explain in that context as well) could be the ADSR envelope. Its parameters are a list of four (rsp. five with level) numbers. It can be very useful to be able to set a ADSR by passing complete lists. It can also be useful to set the parameters with meta-messages like A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300. Here's an implementation of an adsr that relies heavily on list-processing: http://footils.org/cms/weblog/2009/mar/21/adsr-envelopes-pd/ I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. In the Lists-chapter at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Lists it may be useful to also use a non-commutative math object like [/] or [-] with list-input, because that's a useful trick to quickly get the inverse or complement of a number: [1 $1(---[/ ] Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] iemguts on windows
hi, @iohannes: thanks for the hint: i also installed automake and autoconf @jonathan: see http://www.mingw.org/wiki/MSYS g. IOhannes m zmoelnig: Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Yes, I have msys installed. Would it make a difference where pd is installed? no not at all. the makefile uses filter and wildcard commands, which iirc, are built into Gnu make. your version of make doesn't recognize them and tries to execute commands of the very names. unfortunately it cannot find these commands in your path, thus the errors. fgamsdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
This has always confused me, and even in my book I took a simplified approach to explaining lists. It is definitely worth working hard on this passage to choose clear and agreed words. a. Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: In keeping with the FLOSSmanuals methodology, we need a story to tell when introducing lists. I have the intro done, but now we need a story (i.e. developing an example program). I was thinking that a story involving only lists of numbers would be a good place to start. Sorry for not being able to contribute much currently (I'm moving houses) but I think a neat usecase for lists and meta messages (which are important to explain in that context as well) could be the ADSR envelope. Its parameters are a list of four (rsp. five with level) numbers. It can be very useful to be able to set a ADSR by passing complete lists. It can also be useful to set the parameters with meta-messages like A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300. Here's an implementation of an adsr that relies heavily on list-processing: http://footils.org/cms/weblog/2009/mar/21/adsr-envelopes-pd/ I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. In the Lists-chapter at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Lists it may be useful to also use a non-commutative math object like [/] or [-] with list-input, because that's a useful trick to quickly get the inverse or complement of a number: [1 $1(---[/ ] Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
This is all well and good, but no new Pd user is going to read all this, let alone know what to do with it ;-) For the FLOSS Manuals book, I've asked people to be less theoretical and more concentrated on real life examples which do real life things, rather than extended lists of taxonomies. So if we can come up with proper examples which illustrate the properties of lists and when you use what, that would be a lot better. best wishes! Derek Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk hat gesagt: // padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote: This has always confused me, and even in my book I took a simplified approach to explaining lists. It is definitely worth working hard on this passage to choose clear and agreed words. I think, the main obstacle is using the word list with its multiple, general meanings. For example it's totally confusing to say: 1 2 3 x y z is a list, but x y z 1 2 3 is not a list as in the current version of the flossmanual page. I would really change this because: Nobody will understand you. Common sense says: Of course x y z 1 2 3 is a list as well. And it is a list in languanges like English and even here on this list(!) people often don't make any distinction between both examples and call them just a list. However in certain contexts in Pd both example-lists are treated differently. (But not even in all contexts!) To indicate that I'm talking about these Pd-contexts, I generally prefer to talk about messages instead. Both x y z 1 2 3 and 1 2 3 x y z are messages consisting of multiple items - no confusion up to here. The first element in such a message is used to give each message a special meaning/type (semantic) when a Pd object receives such a message. An overview of message types can be found here: http://puredata.info/dev/PdMessages To be clear I like to prefix these messages according to their type when talking about them: list-messages, float-messages, bang-messages, symbol-messages, pointer-messages and all the others as meta-messages. The type is taken from the first item in a message: x y z 1 2 3 is a meta-message, and it's meta-type is x (the first item). list x y z 1 2 3 would be a list-message (or even a meta-message with type list), 1 2 3 x y z also is a list-message for convenience: Because it starts with a number, Pd treats it as list-message. set 100 is a meta-message of the set-subtype. And so on. Now there is some vocabulary to memorize: Every Pd object responds to messages, and very often the type of a message including the subtype of meta-messages makes an object do different things. Take a [delay]: Sending it a bang-message will make it send a bang itself after a certain delay time. Sending it a number or a float-message will change its delay time and then wait for that time to generate a bang. Sending it a stop message will cancel pending bangs. So [delay] accepts three message types: - bang-message - float-message (incl. numbers and list-messages downcastable to a number) - meta-messages of type stop Most other messages like symbol-messages generate errors. Every Pd objectclass has such a bunch of messages it accepts and others it ignores or reports as errors. That's just something you have to learn for each objectclass or look up in its help file and then act accordingly. Some things are reoccuring when dealing with messages of mixed type: [list] is a very useful object because it has the special property that it doesn't care at all about the type of a message and treats everthing as if it would be a list-message by internally prepending list as first element if missing. After that you can be sure that every object you use will receive proper list-messages only. [list trim] does the opposite: It removes the first element if it's list so every object after that will always get a meta-message that is not a list-message (unless you deal with lists starting with numbers). For example in front of [route] you often want to use a [list trim] to be extra sure that you get the meta-messages you want to route - and trimming doesn't hurt when you route numbers like in [route 0 1 2]. Stuff like that is not really tied to the message system in Pd, but a consequence of the various objectclass behaviours used in the builtins and in externals. Ciao -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 49: Display your talent ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Hallo, Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote: This is all well and good, but no new Pd user is going to read all this, let alone know what to do with it ;-) It was more for Andy. ;) For the FLOSS book I would just silently use the term list-message whenever you talk about list-messages, and maybe set-message when talking about set x etc. That way you don't need to write confusing sentences like: x y z is not a list. x y z may be a list or not to someone, but it's definitely not a list-message. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] mapping: path setting hell
Hallo, why is it, that to be able to simply read the help file for center_point in mapping I have to add four (4!) paths to my .pdrc or the command line? Here are the paths I need to set and their reasons: 1) SVN/externals - otherwise [center_point] isn't found 2) SVN/externals/mapping - to find [mapping/reverse] and [mapping/disjoin] 3) SVN/abstractions/ - to find [purepd/float_argument], [purepd/purepd_error] and [purepd/once] 4) SVN/abstractions/purepd - to find [float_argument] Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd suddenly crashing
David F. Place wrote: Hello: I have been using Pd quite happily under linux. Suddenly it will not start at all. This is the error message I get: what do you mean by all of a sudden? after a Pd-upgrade? after a system-upgrade? after a hardware upgrade? after playing around with some configurations? [da...@congo pd]$ pd pd: interval_inline.h:52: snd_interval_single: Assertion `!snd_interval_empty(i)' failed. Pd: signal 6 [da...@congo pd]$ pd_gui: pd process exited http://www.google.com/search?q=snd_interval_empty gives me as first hit a hint that it might be related to alsa. since the first hit i get is very old (2003), it might be a generic problem. the hint given there is to check your samplerate (whether your soundcard actually supports the requested samplerate) fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
On 06/04/2009, at 8.49, Frank Barknecht wrote: I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. So A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a meta-message while list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Hallo, Jonathan Wilkes hat gesagt: // Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? Message-rule #1: Never believe anything [print] prints. Message-rule #2: messages starting with a number don't need any other selector like list or float, they are always float-messages when they only have one element or list-messages when they have more elements. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? no it's a feature to not confuse the noob (at the cost of confusing post-noobs) fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Hallo, Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote: On 06/04/2009, at 8.49, Frank Barknecht wrote: I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. So A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a meta-message while list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message? Almost: A 20 is a meta message, while list A 20 is a list message. list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message followed by 3 meta-messages. :) Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? -Jonathan --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: From: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Subject: Re: [PD] a story for Lists To: pd list pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 10:54 AM Hallo, Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote: On 06/04/2009, at 8.49, Frank Barknecht wrote: I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. So A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a meta-message while list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message? Almost: A 20 is a meta message, while list A 20 is a list message. list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message followed by 3 meta-messages. :) Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Thanks Frank. This was a question which came up in discussion between Hans and I yesterday, which was on the verge of getting very confusing! I think this suggestion might help Hans with his writing. best! Derek Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote: This is all well and good, but no new Pd user is going to read all this, let alone know what to do with it ;-) It was more for Andy. ;) For the FLOSS book I would just silently use the term list-message whenever you talk about list-messages, and maybe set-message when talking about set x etc. That way you don't need to write confusing sentences like: x y z is not a list. x y z may be a list or not to someone, but it's definitely not a list-message. Ciao -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 20: Be extravagant ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
Hallo, padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk hat gesagt: // padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote: This has always confused me, and even in my book I took a simplified approach to explaining lists. It is definitely worth working hard on this passage to choose clear and agreed words. I think, the main obstacle is using the word list with its multiple, general meanings. For example it's totally confusing to say: 1 2 3 x y z is a list, but x y z 1 2 3 is not a list as in the current version of the flossmanual page. I would really change this because: Nobody will understand you. Common sense says: Of course x y z 1 2 3 is a list as well. And it is a list in languanges like English and even here on this list(!) people often don't make any distinction between both examples and call them just a list. However in certain contexts in Pd both example-lists are treated differently. (But not even in all contexts!) To indicate that I'm talking about these Pd-contexts, I generally prefer to talk about messages instead. Both x y z 1 2 3 and 1 2 3 x y z are messages consisting of multiple items - no confusion up to here. The first element in such a message is used to give each message a special meaning/type (semantic) when a Pd object receives such a message. An overview of message types can be found here: http://puredata.info/dev/PdMessages To be clear I like to prefix these messages according to their type when talking about them: list-messages, float-messages, bang-messages, symbol-messages, pointer-messages and all the others as meta-messages. The type is taken from the first item in a message: x y z 1 2 3 is a meta-message, and it's meta-type is x (the first item). list x y z 1 2 3 would be a list-message (or even a meta-message with type list), 1 2 3 x y z also is a list-message for convenience: Because it starts with a number, Pd treats it as list-message. set 100 is a meta-message of the set-subtype. And so on. Now there is some vocabulary to memorize: Every Pd object responds to messages, and very often the type of a message including the subtype of meta-messages makes an object do different things. Take a [delay]: Sending it a bang-message will make it send a bang itself after a certain delay time. Sending it a number or a float-message will change its delay time and then wait for that time to generate a bang. Sending it a stop message will cancel pending bangs. So [delay] accepts three message types: - bang-message - float-message (incl. numbers and list-messages downcastable to a number) - meta-messages of type stop Most other messages like symbol-messages generate errors. Every Pd objectclass has such a bunch of messages it accepts and others it ignores or reports as errors. That's just something you have to learn for each objectclass or look up in its help file and then act accordingly. Some things are reoccuring when dealing with messages of mixed type: [list] is a very useful object because it has the special property that it doesn't care at all about the type of a message and treats everthing as if it would be a list-message by internally prepending list as first element if missing. After that you can be sure that every object you use will receive proper list-messages only. [list trim] does the opposite: It removes the first element if it's list so every object after that will always get a meta-message that is not a list-message (unless you deal with lists starting with numbers). For example in front of [route] you often want to use a [list trim] to be extra sure that you get the meta-messages you want to route - and trimming doesn't hurt when you route numbers like in [route 0 1 2]. Stuff like that is not really tied to the message system in Pd, but a consequence of the various objectclass behaviours used in the builtins and in externals. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: So a library like 'audiomath' would then have audiomath/libaudiomath.pd_linux. Normally, audiomath/libaudiomath.pd_linux would only include shared code, but for this case, it would also include the ~ class, etc. i guess you meant to name it either audiomath/libaudiomath.so (or .dll or .dylib) or audiomath/audiomath.pd_linux. the latter is btw, similar to what zexy and/or Gem suggest upstream (that is: from my side; not to be confused with any packagers' versions):: zexy/zexy.pd_linux holds shared code (e.g. [~]) and signle-file-object live side-by-side to it, e.g. rad2deg.pd; i admit that currently all C-code is considered shared (that is: there is no list2symbol.pd_linux), but once you start blurring the two worlds it get's blurry anyhow (and l2s and list2symbol share about 100% of their code anyhow) having said all that, i think it is a good idea: i would like to be able (e.g. in Pd-extended) to load Gem (without modifying the path!) and it should find Gem/Gem.pd_linux and add Gem/ to it's search paths (for abstractions and single-file externals) i would also like to have Pd's loading mechanism modified so that it _temporarily_ adds Gem/ to the dylib-searchpath, so one could ship a library with external dependencies (without having to link them statically) fmgadsr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: DIY GSoC: getting those projects done
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:27:07PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Chris McCormick wrote:
Then I'd like the DSP stuff not to be a special case, but rather a
library you can import.
It's not much of a feature. It might be a sign of a more modular design,
but what would actually you do with Pd that'd require DSP to be separated
like that?
Maybe similar things to what you can do with pipes on the unix command line.
Except times ten.
Next I would like it if the graphs were represented by a data structure
that doesn't suck (e.g. an associative array not a textfile) so that it
would be possible to pass the network definition (e.g. the patch)
itself through another network to dynamically create and modify
patches. This new representation of a patch should be serialisable as
JSON or similar
This makes no sense to me. a JSON serialisation is already a textfile,
and the .pd file format is already a serialisation of some data
structure. Actually, that data structure may suck, but it's very
replaceable by some other structure, but that doesn't affect the file
format. I have made a version of Pd that replaces linked-lists by
something I called t_boxes which is defined using a C++ associative array
structure:
struct t_boxes : t_gobj {std::mapint,t_gobj * map;}
Way cool.
But really, the file format is the same. I had planned a new file format
but it was 99% compatible with Pd. I don't believe that we'd have to
switch to JSON just before it's newer.
If you're complaining about the format of the IEMGUI constructors, that's
a different problem. This is not part of the .pd format by itself: it's a
subformat. You can abuse another format in the same way, be it JSON, XML,
YAML, LISP data, TCL data, other text formats, binary formats.
The way that IEMGUIs are saved could be fixed without having to change
the Pd format, really. It just needs a bit of imagination. And then, the
only code you'd need to change would be the code of IEMGUIs, just as if
they were still externals. For example, IEMGUIs could save themselves
using Flext-like attributes or GridFlow-like comma-messages, which are
two styles of named-arguments in use in Pd (the latter is actually more
like a [initbang] with a messagebox).
No, that's not at all the reason I think that a format like JSON or YAML would
be useful. It's more to do with patches being more widely and easily parseable,
mashable, etc. It's to do with interoperating with more programs than just Pd
itself. Sure, we could do this and that, and we could use 'a bit of
imagination' but the current format of Pd patches is not friendly or popular.
I'd rather have a patch format that plays nice with other programs and is
easily human readable.
so that it's easy to modify by hand and to parse, and to save to disk,
or send across a network.
Well, you'd have to explain how JSON is going to be any easier to modify,
parse, save and send, because I don't see it.
How many parsers are there which read Pd patches? One mainly, maybe other
obscure ones which I don't know about, and some that I have written which
nobody knows about. How many parsers are there for the JSON format? Hundreds,
in hundreds of different languages.
Especially because when you
say JSON, there's nothing that tells me exactly how JSON is going to be
used for that. In any case, the differences between the many ways that
you can use JSON for that, parallel the differences between the many ways
Pd's syntax could be used.
Yep, I get what you are saying, but you are unfortunately wrong. Nobody cares
about Pd's syntax except our small band of merry Pd people. Even your point
about not knowing how JSON (or YAML or whatever) is going to be used is
irrelevant because of the gain in interoperability with other programs and
people. The details of how Pd patches are represented in a new format are not
as important as the idea of using a popular, human friendly, and widely
parseable format to represent them.
JSON would be nice as it's supported by web frameworks, whcih means you
could do super-cool stuff like websites
Maybe it's just me... I'm not especially web-centric... well, I use the
web a lot, but haven't done any serious web development in this
millenium... so far.
I'm very conservative when it comes to web2.0 and that kind of hype, but I am a
big fan of standards and interoperability.
I've thought many times about starting to code this language, and have
actually hesitantly started a couple of times, but very quickly I
realise what a massive undertaking it is and stop.
Well, every person has their favourite way or dream way to encode data,
but it doesn't mean it's enough of a reason to redo things. When I
thought about all those things about format modifications I considered
that it's easier to go in the direction of the grain, that is, to use
the same parser that is already used all over Pd, and if
Re: [PD] Pd suddenly crashing
Amazingly, it just started working again. I think a likely explanation is that my soundcard got into a bizarre state and needed to be power cycled. Thanks for your help and sorry for the bother. On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 11:33 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: David F. Place wrote: Hello: I have been using Pd quite happily under linux. Suddenly it will not start at all. This is the error message I get: what do you mean by all of a sudden? after a Pd-upgrade? after a system-upgrade? after a hardware upgrade? after playing around with some configurations? [da...@congo pd]$ pd pd: interval_inline.h:52: snd_interval_single: Assertion `!snd_interval_empty(i)' failed. Pd: signal 6 [da...@congo pd]$ pd_gui: pd process exited http://www.google.com/search?q=snd_interval_empty gives me as first hit a hint that it might be related to alsa. since the first hit i get is very old (2003), it might be a generic problem. the hint given there is to check your samplerate (whether your soundcard actually supports the requested samplerate) fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mapping: path setting hell
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: 1) SVN/externals - otherwise [center_point] isn't found 2) SVN/externals/mapping - to find [mapping/reverse] and [mapping/disjoin] These two were meant to have reversed reasons. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
Martin Peach wrote: Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote: The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, which it uses for numeric comparisons, whereas it uses ,,=,=,==,!= for string comparisons. It also needs both by design. [snip] Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages also at least one assembly language: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/68000_Assembly#Conditional_tests Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
I'm writing a tutorial on using sinesum to generate wavetables for the FLOSS Manual. In typical fashion, the current all_about_arrays documentation merely (lazily?) directs users to Google partials to find out how to build the waveforms. I'd like to point to specific resource. So, is there any thing that I could direct users to in order to calculate a series of partials (hopefully scalable) for a given waveform (hopefully adjustable)? best! D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 20: Be extravagant ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd seriell printers
Hi Mathieu, Hi all after all searchung the papers, reading about pins and ESC/P, i got the printer now, so i could start to test. and it could be parallel, usb or serial. I would prefer serial, but if there are better solutions? could you give me a glue how to start? i could not find out how to print lets say hello world from PD. is it just to send the asciis to the printer, or do i need hex? sorry for beeing so supernude ;-) thank you in advance markus On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, bra...@subnet.at wrote: On 3 Mar 2009, ma...@artengine.ca wrote: I know nothing about this printer in particular, but if it's a new machine with a RS232 port, I suspect that it's because of systems that still use the old Epson protocol: yes it is a new one. And now I will check the papers yes I understood that it's a new one, I just mean for any new machines with a RS232 port, it's probably because of systems that still use the old Epson protocol. I say that so that you understand my reasoning. You could use that idea to pick different hardware if you need to or if you find any other reason why anything else would be better. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
I'm thinking something like the Applet here: http://www.eecircle.com/applets/001/001.html but maybe with more possible waveforms. D. Derek Holzer wrote: I'm writing a tutorial on using sinesum to generate wavetables for the FLOSS Manual. In typical fashion, the current all_about_arrays documentation merely (lazily?) directs users to Google partials to find out how to build the waveforms. I'd like to point to specific resource. So, is there any thing that I could direct users to in order to calculate a series of partials (hopefully scalable) for a given waveform (hopefully adjustable)? best! D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 180: What to increase? What to reduce? What to maintain? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: Martin Peach wrote: Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote: The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, which it uses for numeric comparisons, whereas it uses ,,=,=,==,!= for string comparisons. It also needs both by design. [snip] Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages also at least one assembly language: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/68000_Assembly#Conditional_tests While it's true 68000 was one of the easiest to learn, assembly language is notoriously obscure. (like anl, orl, jc from 8051) And proprietary concerns meant that every processor had a different mnemonic set, so standardization was out the window from the beginning. Pd is a higher level language that trades off efficiency for a more human interface. Naming things for ease of typing is not usually consistent with naming things according to what they do. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd seriell printers
bra...@subnet.at wrote: Hi Mathieu, Hi all after all searchung the papers, reading about pins and ESC/P, i got the printer now, so i could start to test. and it could be parallel, usb or serial. I would prefer serial, but if there are better solutions? could you give me a glue how to start? i could not find out how to print lets say hello world from PD. is it just to send the asciis to the printer, or do i need hex? sorry for beeing so supernude ;-) Just send the ASCII through [comport]. Probably [any2string] can convert text to ASCII bytes. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
I think that part makes sense. I think this is the bug: [list 20 foo( | [print] This prints: 20 foo it should print list 20 foo .hc On Apr 6, 2009, at 5:30 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? -Jonathan --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: From: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Subject: Re: [PD] a story for Lists To: pd list pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 10:54 AM Hallo, Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote: On 06/04/2009, at 8.49, Frank Barknecht wrote: I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists list-messages. So A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a meta-message while list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message? Almost: A 20 is a meta message, while list A 20 is a list message. list A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300 is a list-message followed by 3 meta-messages. :) Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 15:15 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote: I'm writing a tutorial on using sinesum to generate wavetables for the FLOSS Manual. In typical fashion, the current all_about_arrays documentation merely (lazily?) directs users to Google partials to find out how to build the waveforms. I'd like to point to specific resource. So, is there any thing that I could direct users to in order to calculate a series of partials (hopefully scalable) for a given waveform (hopefully adjustable)? hi derek checkout the abstractions: - synth.osc.saw.bl~.pd - synth.osc.square.bl~.pd - synth.osc.triangle.bl~.pd those are based on such tables consisting of partials of those waveforms. the tables are created dynamically on instantiation of the first instance of the abstraction. checkout the [pd lookup-table-creation] subpatch and its subpatch [pd bandlimited-WAVEFORM-sinesum]. the latter will generate the correct sinesum messages for the given number of partials. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
For this book, I think its good to avoid the confusing part altogether, at least until much later. The lists chapter can work with lists of numbers only. Then there is little confusion. So if there was a good story based on lists of numbers, it would guide the beginner thru the concepts of lists and get them going working with them. Then after that is all done, lists that include symbols can be added, and then this annoying issue could start to be addressed. .hc On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:51 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: Thanks Frank. This was a question which came up in discussion between Hans and I yesterday, which was on the verge of getting very confusing! I think this suggestion might help Hans with his writing. best! Derek Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote: This is all well and good, but no new Pd user is going to read all this, let alone know what to do with it ;-) It was more for Andy. ;) For the FLOSS book I would just silently use the term list-message whenever you talk about list-messages, and maybe set-message when talking about set x etc. That way you don't need to write confusing sentences like: x y z is not a list. x y z may be a list or not to someone, but it's definitely not a list-message. Ciao -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 20: Be extravagant ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
Thanks Roman, I'd love it if you could look at the Generating Waveforms and Antialiasing chapters ion the FLOSS Manual a bit later on after I have time to day to work on them and give me some feedback ;-) best! D Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 15:15 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote: I'm writing a tutorial on using sinesum to generate wavetables for the FLOSS Manual. In typical fashion, the current all_about_arrays documentation merely (lazily?) directs users to Google partials to find out how to build the waveforms. I'd like to point to specific resource. So, is there any thing that I could direct users to in order to calculate a series of partials (hopefully scalable) for a given waveform (hopefully adjustable)? hi derek checkout the abstractions: - synth.osc.saw.bl~.pd - synth.osc.square.bl~.pd - synth.osc.triangle.bl~.pd those are based on such tables consisting of partials of those waveforms. the tables are created dynamically on instantiation of the first instance of the abstraction. checkout the [pd lookup-table-creation] subpatch and its subpatch [pd bandlimited-WAVEFORM-sinesum]. the latter will generate the correct sinesum messages for the given number of partials. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 119: Mechanicalize something idiosyncratic ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mapping: path setting hell
Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : On Apr 6, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: 1) SVN/externals - otherwise [center_point] isn't found 2) SVN/externals/mapping - to find [mapping/reverse] and [mapping/disjoin] These two were meant to have reversed reasons. Hmm, because you are doing it wrong? no, because mapping is doing it wrong. i'm more and more convinced that the only way i now have to use the object that i write is to fork this lib. it's a bad solution for everybody, but at last i'll be able to profit from my work. Cyrille ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mapping: path setting hell
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: 1) SVN/externals - otherwise [center_point] isn't found 2) SVN/externals/mapping - to find [mapping/reverse] and [mapping/disjoin] These two were meant to have reversed reasons. Hmm, because you are doing it wrong? I'm not doing it wrong, it works fine. But because mapping is sometimes using prefixes internally, sometimes not (you get [float_argument] and [purepd/float_argument] or [reverse] and [mapping/reverse]) this results in users having to add twice the amount of paths or imports. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] sourceforge bug tracking and Vanilla PD
Hi, I've just experimented a bug about the [keyup] object not working correctly under Windows, in PD Vanilla 0.42-4 So I've gone to the Bug Tracker and done a search. Guess what? Not only have I found that I already reported this bug myself almost 2 years ago (1728414), but that THE BUG REPORT IS CLOSED and the last comment posted by the bugfix asignee says: This is fixed by patch #1704511 and included in branches/pd-extended/0.40 I think something's gone wrong, as the bug in Pd Vanilla 0.42-4 is still there. Is it correct to CLOSE a bug report before the fix reaches PD Vanilla? (we're talking about a basic object included in the vanilla distribution) Is it tracked somewhere else (in the patchtracker for example) so that one day, according to priorities, the fix will be included in PD Vanilla? Or does the fact that the bug ticket is closed mean that it won't probably ever get through to PD Vanilla? Because in the latter case I think it was an error to set the bug report as CLOSED. By the way the very same thing happens with bug #1728405 about [keyname] Thanks m. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] route float
hi, I am trying to parse shader programs to automatically generate user interfaces (for uniform variables). I have to differentiate between messages like [uniform float value1( [uniform vec2 value2( [something totally different( | [route uniform] | [route float vec2] | [symbol\ The problem appears as soon as float value1 tries to pass route float, which gives me error: Bad arguments for message 'float' to object 'messresponder'. Is there already a quick solution for that, or do I have to do my own work around? thanks, marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
Hi Roman, these are good, but too much complex dataflow for beginner tutorial right now! I wrote my way around the problem a bit, have a look if you are interested: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/GeneratingWaveforms also here: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Antialiasing best! Derek Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 15:15 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote: I'm writing a tutorial on using sinesum to generate wavetables for the FLOSS Manual. In typical fashion, the current all_about_arrays documentation merely (lazily?) directs users to Google partials to find out how to build the waveforms. I'd like to point to specific resource. So, is there any thing that I could direct users to in order to calculate a series of partials (hopefully scalable) for a given waveform (hopefully adjustable)? hi derek checkout the abstractions: - synth.osc.saw.bl~.pd - synth.osc.square.bl~.pd - synth.osc.triangle.bl~.pd those are based on such tables consisting of partials of those waveforms. the tables are created dynamically on instantiation of the first instance of the abstraction. checkout the [pd lookup-table-creation] subpatch and its subpatch [pd bandlimited-WAVEFORM-sinesum]. the latter will generate the correct sinesum messages for the given number of partials. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 138: Retrace your steps ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote: Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages and is not going to help someone guess the name of the object or what it does, especially if they are not used to english. If they are so much not used to English, then how do you justify names like [hip~] and [dac~] ? So you want something guessable by someone in most any language, then do your best to support [] [] [=] etc, because that's exactly what you need. So if I understand you correctly, you need something written in English for people who can't read English, and is guessable by them because they can't use help files and they don't read manuals, and at the same time it can't be the symbols that they already know because the filesystems might not support the characters that could already be substituted by hexloader which might be not loaded, on a system that deprecated non-libdir -lib for ideological reasons about how much code should be put per file. Maybe I should've just say, just figure out how to support special characters so that we don't have to hear about elongated names designed for people who can't read them. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
Hallo, marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: I am trying to parse shader programs to automatically generate user interfaces (for uniform variables). I have to differentiate between messages like [uniform float value1( [uniform vec2 value2( [something totally different( | [route uniform] | [route float vec2] | [symbol\ The problem appears as soon as float value1 tries to pass route float, which gives me error: Bad arguments for message 'float' to object 'messresponder'. Is value1 a number or something else, like a symbol? if it's a symbol, then you are trying to use a float-message with a symbol argument like float abc which is, uhm, not supported, at least not in [route] or [print] or so. As a workaround, replace the float with something else using [select float] i.e.: [uniform float value1( | [unpack s s s] | | | | [select float] | | / | | [symbol f( | | /| [pack s s s ] | Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
Frank Barknecht wrote: Is value1 a number or something else, like a symbol? if it's a symbol, then it's a literal, which translates to symbol in Pd-lingo. you are trying to use a float-message with a symbol argument like float abc which is, uhm, not supported, at least not in [route] or [print] or so. it's not supported by Pd, at all. not even [t a] likes it. As a workaround, replace the float with something else using [select float] i.e.: [uniform float value1( | [list] | [unpack s s s] anyhow, i'd say it's a bug in Pd's parser. related to [symbol 3( evaluating to an empty symbol (i thought it evaluated to the equally unexpected literal float, but this seems to be not the case (anymore(?))) and very much related to the issues of string in mrpeach's str hack. argh.be IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca wrote: Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages and is not going to help someone guess the name of the object or what it does, especially if they are not used to english. You could name [or] just [o] for example...a saving of one letter in exchange for an infinite increase in uncertainty. It would contribute to making Pd a secret language for initiates who bang until. Are you saying that initiates would know a secret way to bang until that does not cause Pd to freeze? It's all about users who don't want to read helpfiles and refuse to learn anything and whose opinion is still important, I don't know why. Or, that an infinite increase in uncertainty would dull the users' senses so much that they could no longer tell the difference between an operational and frozen patch? You have to question the infinite increase in uncertainty. Why was this said? is Martin assuming [o] to be an abbreviation for every possible current or future word that may start by [o] ? And somehow at once the user can't possibly be bothered to open the help file to figure what o means. Pd is already a secret language for initiates. Even your hypothetical beginner is required to guess the name and functionality of what should be a standard object. But I imagine the work everyone is doing on organizing libraries by category will go a long way towards remedying that. A system of mutually-exclusive categories is not very hyperlinked... multiple tags per class is a way that is a lot more helpful in getting people to find what they need, as there is usually more than one useful tag to put on a class, and a system of mutually-exclusive categories only allows one such word at the expense of others. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: also at least one assembly language: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/68000_Assembly#Conditional_tests Yeah, but if Martin thinks that shells and Perl both don't matter, then anything lower-level won't matter (if you don't think of Pd as being lower-level than Perl, which imho would also be questionable...) Basically it's a matter of first coming up with a long-worded solution as a way to teach english to non-english speakers who want patches to read like english, and then coming up with an appropriately-elaborated problem to fit that solution. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] supported formats of pix_image
cyrille henry wrote: marius schebella a écrit : Hi, I'm working on the GEM part of the FLOSS manual. got stuck with the supported file formats of pix_image. the help patch says *.tif, *jpg, *.png. but it seems that *.bmp and *.gif are also supported. is this depending on the OS? it does not only depend on the os, but also on the lib used to compiled Gem. it's possible to compile Gem with only jpg suport. or only tif... but it is usually safe to use jpeg or tiff file. cyrille Ok, thanks, maybe the Gem version in Pd-extended just compiles with all the file formats supported? marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] supported formats of pix_image
marius schebella a écrit : Hi, I'm working on the GEM part of the FLOSS manual. got stuck with the supported file formats of pix_image. the help patch says *.tif, *jpg, *.png. but it seems that *.bmp and *.gif are also supported. is this depending on the OS? it does not only depend on the os, but also on the lib used to compiled Gem. it's possible to compile Gem with only jpg suport. or only tif... but it is usually safe to use jpeg or tiff file. cyrille can someone confirm that all these file types are supported? any other file types? thnx, marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] supported formats of pix_image
Hi, I'm working on the GEM part of the FLOSS manual. got stuck with the supported file formats of pix_image. the help patch says *.tif, *jpg, *.png. but it seems that *.bmp and *.gif are also supported. is this depending on the OS? can someone confirm that all these file types are supported? any other file types? thnx, marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote: Pd is a higher level language that trades off efficiency for a more human interface. Yes, it's definitely more human to take a simple formula that fits in a small space and explode it into a network of little components with long names for the sake of reassuring themselves on the basis that it's more visual (so it must be easier, isn't it?) and more verbose (so it must be easier isn't it?) and then use all the placebo effect necessary to make spiderwebs of long names _become_ easier than the simple formula. This is for the benefit of those users who define themselves as more human than the others because they say so. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote:
I am trying to parse shader programs to automatically generate user
interfaces (for uniform variables). I have to differentiate between
messages like
[uniform float value1(
[uniform vec2 value2(
[something totally different(
|
[route uniform]
|
[route float vec2]
|
[symbol\
The problem appears as soon as float value1 tries to pass route float,
which gives me error: Bad arguments for message 'float' to object
'messresponder'.
Is value1 a number or something else, like a symbol? if it's a symbol, then
you are trying to use a float-message with a symbol argument like float abc
which is, uhm, not supported, at least not in [route] or [print] or so.
As a workaround, replace the float with something else using [select float]
i.e.:
[uniform float value1(
|
[unpack s s s]
| | |
| [select float]
| | / |
| [symbol f(
| | /|
[pack s s s ]
|
Ciao
Hi Frank,
thanks for the quick reply.
value1 is a string/symbol. not a number. like variablename. the
problem with your solution is that something totally different can be
really anything.
even a line like float variablename; I see this will be one big mess
at the end. I am also trying to restrict the parsing to the variable
declarations at the top of the shader file - anything before the first
function (although that's going to be a hard one, too, because the first
function isn't necessarily void main(). At least it is easy to rule out
comments (//). And, Pd does semicolon magic, too, so no need for string
parsing with the variablename.
otoh parsing froze Pd anyway :( [textfile] did not like the line with {
---snip--
void main()
{
---snip--
dunno, maybe Pd is not made for text parsing?? (Probably I should just
ask IOhannes for a third outlet of glsl_program...)
marius.
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Re: [PD] route float
Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Frank Barknecht wrote: Is value1 a number or something else, like a symbol? if it's a symbol, then it's a literal, which translates to symbol in Pd-lingo. I assumed Marius was using value1 as a placeholder. you are trying to use a float-message with a symbol argument like float abc which is, uhm, not supported, at least not in [route] or [print] or so. it's not supported by Pd, at all. not even [t a] likes it. As a workaround, replace the float with something else using [select float] i.e.: [uniform float value1( | [list] | [unpack s s s] Yeah, better play it save, but here (0.42) the plain meta-message also worked. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Multiblob and matrices...
Thanks for the response. However, I am still struggling with this. I probably need a much more basic explanation. Sorry. I assume that the patches you've provided (greatly appreciated) collate the data in someway in order for me to be able to unpack it? However, I'm not sure that I even understand exactly how 'unpack' and 'route' work, which is obviously a problem! If anyone can provide a more simplified explanation I would really appreciate it. I'm not that familiar with programming, so layman's terms are all I can manage! Thanks Simon On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 2:14 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: Simon Ball wrote: Hi List hi. it seems like i received this email multiple times... However, there are few areas I am still confused about. First of all, I am unsure of how to extract muliple co-ordinates from [pix_multiblob]. I understand that the data from multiblob is collated within a matrix. I am able to see this in the pd window when I print. However, I am unsure how to use a matrix. Is there a certain object that I should be sending to from [pix_multiblob]? And in turn, how would I convert the matrix into xy co-ordinates. there is a separate library dedicated to the kind of matrices output by [pix_multiblob]; it's called iemmatrix. however, you should have an understanding of matrices in order to use it. matrices of this form are simple messages which you can treat like any other message. attached are two examples on how to extract the rows of a matrix (and pix_multiblob will give you one row per blob; so this is interesting data), one using iemmatrix ([pix_rows]) and one using zexy ([pix_rowz]). it is left as an exercise for the user to make a pd-vanilla implementation. just send the mtx-output of [pix_multiblob] to the object, and you will get nice lists for each blob, starting with the index of the blob (zero-based) and then comes the data. use [route] to filter the relevant blobs and [unpack] to access the data. In the archives I found a response to similar a question saying there was a gem example with matrix and multiblob, but I can not seem to find it. Any idea what and where this is? there's an abstraction called [pix_blobtracker] which uses [pix_multiblob] and matrix operations to track blobs. Hope thats not too many questions. And is it easier for the list if I divide questions up (for archive purposes perhaps)? personally i would prefer separate threads for separate questions for starters. it always ends in confusion, but we could try to delay this... gmsdr IOhannes #N canvas 0 0 552 353 10; #X obj 153 163 mtx; #X msg 153 143 col; #X obj 153 123 t b a b; #X obj 153 208 list prepend; #X obj 153 184 t a b; #X obj 196 185 i; #X obj 225 187 + 1; #X msg 214 165 0; #X obj 153 97 inlet; #X obj 153 236 outlet; #X text 72 48 output thw rows of a matrix \, prepended with a (zero-based) index; #X text 50 265 depends on [iemmatrix]; #X connect 0 0 4 0; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 2 0 1 0; #X connect 2 1 0 1; #X connect 2 2 7 0; #X connect 3 0 9 0; #X connect 4 0 3 0; #X connect 4 1 5 0; #X connect 5 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 3 1; #X connect 6 0 5 1; #X connect 7 0 5 1; #X connect 8 0 2 0; #N canvas 166 277 450 419 10; #X msg 176 195 \$2; #X obj 184 249 repack; #X obj 144 221 list split 3; #X obj 184 321 list prepend; #X obj 144 170 t a a b; #X obj 184 274 t a b; #X obj 216 297 i; #X obj 246 298 + 1; #X msg 234 276 0; #X obj 144 145 inlet; #X obj 184 351 outlet; #X text 72 108 output thw rows of a matrix \, prepended with a (zero-based) index; #X text 50 375 depends on [zexy]; #X connect 0 0 1 1; #X connect 1 0 5 0; #X connect 2 1 1 0; #X connect 3 0 10 0; #X connect 4 0 2 0; #X connect 4 1 0 0; #X connect 4 2 8 0; #X connect 5 0 3 0; #X connect 5 1 6 0; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 6 0 3 1; #X connect 7 0 6 1; #X connect 8 0 6 1; #X connect 9 0 4 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: DIY GSoC: getting those projects done
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Chris McCormick wrote: No, that's not at all the reason I think that a format like JSON or YAML would be useful. It's more to do with patches being more widely and easily parseable, mashable, etc. It's to do with interoperating with more programs than just Pd itself. Sure, we could do this and that, and we could use 'a bit of imagination' but the current format of Pd patches is not friendly or popular. I'd rather have a patch format that plays nice with other programs and is easily human readable. Ok, you know what playing nice means and what human readable means, I can't help you with that at all. I didn't watch the infomercials about JSON, so I don't know how amazingly easier than everything else it is. How many parsers are there which read Pd patches? One mainly, maybe other obscure ones which I don't know about, and some that I have written which nobody knows about. How many parsers are there for the JSON format? Hundreds, in hundreds of different languages. After the parser is ready, you still have to write the programme that will actually do something useful with the patch that has been read and parsed, and that will most likely the part of the work that will be the most significant, especially if you don't bother about handling backslashed spaces properly, because pd doesn't anyway. If you already have a [netreceive] in the target language, you already have a parser for much of the pd format... Yep, I get what you are saying, but you are unfortunately wrong. Nobody cares about Pd's syntax except our small band of merry Pd people. So why would those people who don't care about Pd's syntax would ever care about processing Pd patches? It just doesn't make any sense. Even your point about not knowing how JSON (or YAML or whatever) is going to be used is irrelevant because of the gain in interoperability with other programs and people. I don't think any interoperability is going to be gained from using a JSON-based format (that you still haven't specified) because no non-Pd people will want to process patches. Forget everything about the format being readable by real human beings (by opposition to those damn pd users), a JSON-based patch format will only achieve one thing, allow the JSON fans to say that Pd supports JSON. Yes, that's very true. I guess with the idea of a very social format like YAML or JSON Once you consider the actual number of XML/YAML/JSON users who would be processing any pd patch if it were coded in their favourite encoding, then you wouldn't feel nearly as lonely with the Pd format, really. I'm expecting you to be disappointed by what JSON will bring to Pd. In any case, it's still easy to make a Pd-to-JSON converter, so, invent yourself a suitable JSON-subformat for converting your Pd patches to, and see whether any JSON user cares, and it will save us having to convert all of our patches to JSON, really. I am trying to advocate a language that interoperates nicely and easily with other languages and hence isn't a small island of software Be careful of all of the details of the software, which is everything else that isn't already covered by JSON, which is almost everything of what makes a patch a patch and what makes pd pd (or what makes some other patching system be what it is). The superficial part of the syntax is superficial but it's easy to exaggerate it at the expense of all of the depth of the syntax. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] supported formats of pix_image
Pd FLOSS assumes Pd Extended, so it's Quicktime on Windows and Mac. Linux is more complicated, based on the libs it's compiled against. I'll get Hans to send the compiler flags in a sec... D. cyrille henry wrote: marius schebella a écrit : Hi, I'm working on the GEM part of the FLOSS manual. got stuck with the supported file formats of pix_image. the help patch says *.tif, *jpg, *.png. but it seems that *.bmp and *.gif are also supported. is this depending on the OS? it does not only depend on the os, but also on the lib used to compiled Gem. it's possible to compile Gem with only jpg suport. or only tif... but it is usually safe to use jpeg or tiff file. cyrille can someone confirm that all these file types are supported? any other file types? thnx, marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 168: Use fewer notes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
Hallo, marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: dunno, maybe Pd is not made for text parsing?? IMO it isn't. Can't you do the parsing somewhere else, like in a pdlua object? Much more comfortable for text. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? No, it's just a shortcut. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] online tool or free soft for calculating partials
On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 18:35 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote: Hi Roman, these are good, but too much complex dataflow for beginner tutorial right now! frankly, that is what i actually thought as well. I wrote my way around the problem a bit, have a look if you are interested: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/GeneratingWaveforms also here: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Antialiasing cool! i'll have a look roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: dunno, maybe Pd is not made for text parsing?? IMO it isn't. Can't you do the parsing somewhere else, like in a pdlua object? Much more comfortable for text. Ciao good idea, will check it out. can't remember that I saw a text parsing pdlua example, though?? marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] route float
yep, not very confortable. but i was very surprised when i noticed that performing search and replace on very big text file was almost instantaneous when made with pd, but would take many minute with gedit. Cyrille Frank Barknecht a écrit : Hallo, marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote: dunno, maybe Pd is not made for text parsing?? IMO it isn't. Can't you do the parsing somewhere else, like in a pdlua object? Much more comfortable for text. Ciao ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] supported formats of pix_image
Here's the result from ./configure on the Debian/lenny machine: Result: Target : Gem.pd_linux Objects: Base Controls Geos Manips Nongeos Particles Pixes openGL Configuration: Compiler : g++ CXXFLAGS : -g -O2 -fPIC -freg-struct-return -O3 - falign-loops=32 -falign-functions=32 -falign-jumps=32 -funroll-loops - ffast-math -mmmx : -I/usr/include/lqt -I/usr/include/lqt -I/usr/include/FTGL -I/ usr/include/freetype2 INCLUDES : -I/usr/include/FTGL -I/usr/include/ freetype2 -I/home/pd/auto-build/pd-extended/pd/src DEFINES: LIBS : -ldv -lmpeg3 -lGLU -lGL -lXext -lXxf86vm - lXext -lX11 -ldl -lz -lm -lpthread -L/home/pd/auto-build/pd-extended/ pd/bin : -lftgl -L/usr/lib -lquicktime -lGL -lpthread -lm -lz -ldl - lquicktime -lGL -lpthread -lm -lz -ldl -lMagick++ -lWand -lMagick LDFLAGS: -shared -Wl,-export-dynamic : Strip : strip --strip-unneeded Install path : /usr/local pure-data: version: 0.41 extension : pd_linux used optional libraries: font-rendering : FTGL image-support use ImageMagick : yes use TIFF : no (forced) use JPEG : no (forced) video-support use mpeg : no use mpeg-3 : yes use QuickTime: yes use aviplay : no use ffmpeg : no (forced) input-support use v4l : yes use ieee1394 : yes .hc On Apr 6, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: Pd FLOSS assumes Pd Extended, so it's Quicktime on Windows and Mac. Linux is more complicated, based on the libs it's compiled against. I'll get Hans to send the compiler flags in a sec... D. cyrille henry wrote: marius schebella a écrit : Hi, I'm working on the GEM part of the FLOSS manual. got stuck with the supported file formats of pix_image. the help patch says *.tif, *jpg, *.png. but it seems that *.bmp and *.gif are also supported. is this depending on the OS? it does not only depend on the os, but also on the lib used to compiled Gem. it's possible to compile Gem with only jpg suport. or only tif... but it is usually safe to use jpeg or tiff file. cyrille can someone confirm that all these file types are supported? any other file types? thnx, marius. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 168: Use fewer notes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] auto 1 loops pix_film (and pix_movie?)
Hi, the help patch sais that auto 1 will not loop the movie, but actually it does. someone want to comment on this? thanks, marius. ps. not sure if this applies to pix_movie, too, because I don't use it on osx. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] , , , || etc
Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: Martin Peach wrote: Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote: The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, which it uses for numeric comparisons, whereas it uses ,,=,=,==,!= for string comparisons. It also needs both by design. [snip] Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages also at least one assembly language: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/68000_Assembly#Conditional_tests Claude and in the PHP template engine PHPTAL: http://phptal.motion-twin.com/manual/en/#tal-condition Thomas -- Spielen Sie Strip Schnipp-Schnapp? (Adam Weishaupt to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe in: Robert Shea Robert A. Wilson, The Golden Apple) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] auto 1 loops pix_film (and pix_movie?)
marius schebella wrote: Hi, the help patch sais that auto 1 will not loop the movie, but actually it does. someone want to comment on this? it's a bug. mgadsr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] supported formats of pix_image
Derek Holzer wrote: Pd FLOSS assumes Pd Extended, so it's Quicktime on Windows and Mac. no afair, only on OSX, QuickTime is used for image reading. on w32 you have libjpeg and libtiff support. on linux you have ImageMagick. the reason why quicktime is not (optionally) used on w32 is beyond my knowledge; i guess it is just a matter of getting the preprocessor defines right (from __APPLE__ to HAVE_QUICKTIME); most likely it is like it is for legacy reasons. Linux is more complicated, based on the libs it's compiled against. I'll get Hans to send the compiler flags in a sec... on linux we check for ImageMagick, and if this is not present libjpeg and libtiff. ImageMagick will open pretty much any image format. fgamsdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a story for Lists
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] a story for Lists To: pd list pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 11:41 AM Jonathan Wilkes wrote: So is it a bug that [20 foo(--[print] posts 20 foo instead of list 20 foo? no it's a feature to not confuse the noob (at the cost of confusing post-noobs) It wouldn't confuse anyone at all if there were no meta-messages. -Jonathan fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
