Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[hans w. koch]

how about this one: https://github.com/cuinjune/purr-data 

running pd in a browser, which also would run on android.
(disclaimer: i only glanced at it casually)

but as christoph said, it has some masochistic aspect to it.

best

hans


> Am 24.02.2023 um 13:05 schrieb Matevz Leskovsek :
> 
> Well I kinda abandoned all desktop OS about 10 years ago, just running
> chromiumOS everywhere now and patiently waiting for all runtimes to
> become available in cloud :D Also I dont run crostini or crossover or
> other any WM.. yes, its a simple life :D I just kept one windows
> computer to run VSTs and OBS studio, otherwise chromebooks and android
> devices for everything :) But I miss pd heavily... btw i saw your APK
> builder for pddroid - awesome! Google wants aab bundles now though,
> which is really annoying, so I guess we will abandon google play
> eventually and use some alternative repo/installer. Anyhow, if someone
> has an idea how to edit patches on stock android devices or on
> chromebooks that would be great!
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:52 PM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> It depends on your workflow. For PdParty, you can stream *all* live sensor 
>> events over OSC while prototyping in desktop Pd, which is sufficient for my 
>> use case. Then again, I don’t use my mobile device as an everything 
>> computer, so I suppose I’m biased.
>> 
>> enohp ym morf tnes
>> ---
>> Dan Wilcox
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
>>> really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
>>> popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
>>> livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
>>> desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
>>> be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
>>> willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
>>> tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
>>> pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
>>> suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
>>> easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
>>> js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
>>> patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
>>> is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
>>> respect! Thanks!
>>> 
 On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
 
 Howdy Matevz,
 
 I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
 Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.
 
 Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a 
 live, graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:
 
 1. the interaction metaphors are different
 2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)
 
 That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something 
 that can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, 
 however, once things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating 
 most of the core logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try 
 to keep it up to date with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. 
 In short: it's a lot of thankless work that is best *not* done without 
 lots of interest, resources, and support.
 
 The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
 distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where 
 your question is focused.
 
 As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear 
 decision early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the 
 reasons mentioned above.
 
 On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
 From: Matevz Leskovsek 
 To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
 Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
 Message-ID:
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 
 Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
 pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
 that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
 still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
 creating and running pd patches. Thanks!
 
 
 
 Dan Wilcox
 @danomatika
 danomatika.com
 robotcowboy.com
 
 
 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[Dan Wilcox]

Interesting approach. I don’t know if I trust Google that much, personally. 
OTOH I use Apple devices which have their own issues.

> On Feb 24, 2023, at 1:05 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
> wrote:
> 
> btw i saw your APK
> builder for pddroid - awesome!

Note: This isn’t me. I am the author for PdParty which is iOS only. 
PdDroidParty is on Android and was my direct inspiration. You may be thinking 
of Chris McCormick, the original author of DroidParty. I recognize the naming 
confusion, but PdIOSParty or PdAppleParty made little sense at the time.

enohp ym morf tnes
---
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com


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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[Matevz Leskovsek]

Well I kinda abandoned all desktop OS about 10 years ago, just running
chromiumOS everywhere now and patiently waiting for all runtimes to
become available in cloud :D Also I dont run crostini or crossover or
other any WM.. yes, its a simple life :D I just kept one windows
computer to run VSTs and OBS studio, otherwise chromebooks and android
devices for everything :) But I miss pd heavily... btw i saw your APK
builder for pddroid - awesome! Google wants aab bundles now though,
which is really annoying, so I guess we will abandon google play
eventually and use some alternative repo/installer. Anyhow, if someone
has an idea how to edit patches on stock android devices or on
chromebooks that would be great!

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:52 PM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>
> It depends on your workflow. For PdParty, you can stream *all* live sensor 
> events over OSC while prototyping in desktop Pd, which is sufficient for my 
> use case. Then again, I don’t use my mobile device as an everything computer, 
> so I suppose I’m biased.
>
> enohp ym morf tnes
> ---
> Dan Wilcox
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
> > really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
> > popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
> > livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
> > desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
> > be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
> > willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
> > tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
> > pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
> > suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
> > easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
> > js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
> > patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
> > is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
> > respect! Thanks!
> >
> >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> >>
> >> Howdy Matevz,
> >>
> >> I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
> >> Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.
> >>
> >> Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a 
> >> live, graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:
> >>
> >> 1. the interaction metaphors are different
> >> 2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)
> >>
> >> That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something 
> >> that can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, 
> >> however, once things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating 
> >> most of the core logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try 
> >> to keep it up to date with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. 
> >> In short: it's a lot of thankless work that is best *not* done without 
> >> lots of interest, resources, and support.
> >>
> >> The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
> >> distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where 
> >> your question is focused.
> >>
> >> As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear 
> >> decision early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the 
> >> reasons mentioned above.
> >>
> >> On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
> >> From: Matevz Leskovsek 
> >> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> >> Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
> >> Message-ID:
> >> 
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >>
> >> Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
> >> pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
> >> that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
> >> still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
> >> creating and running pd patches. Thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> Dan Wilcox
> >> @danomatika
> >> danomatika.com
> >> robotcowboy.com
> >>
> >>
> >>



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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[Christof Ressi]

Do people really want to *edit* Pd patches on a phone or tablet? To me 
this sounds like pure masochism :-D


On 24.02.2023 12:52, Dan Wilcox wrote:

It depends on your workflow. For PdParty, you can stream *all* live sensor 
events over OSC while prototyping in desktop Pd, which is sufficient for my use 
case. Then again, I don’t use my mobile device as an everything computer, so I 
suppose I’m biased.

enohp ym morf tnes
---
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



On Feb 24, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
wrote:

Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
respect! Thanks!


On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:

Howdy Matevz,

I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.

Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a live, 
graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:

1. the interaction metaphors are different
2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)

That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something that 
can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, however, once 
things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating most of the core 
logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try to keep it up to date 
with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. In short: it's a lot of 
thankless work that is best *not* done without lots of interest, resources, and 
support.

The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where your 
question is focused.

As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear decision 
early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the reasons mentioned 
above.

On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
From: Matevz Leskovsek 
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
creating and running pd patches. Thanks!



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com






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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[Dan Wilcox]

It depends on your workflow. For PdParty, you can stream *all* live sensor 
events over OSC while prototyping in desktop Pd, which is sufficient for my use 
case. Then again, I don’t use my mobile device as an everything computer, so I 
suppose I’m biased.

enohp ym morf tnes
---
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com


> On Feb 24, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Matevz Leskovsek  
> wrote:
> 
> Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
> really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
> popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
> livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
> desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
> be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
> willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
> tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
> pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
> suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
> easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
> js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
> patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
> is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
> respect! Thanks!
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy Matevz,
>> 
>> I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
>> Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.
>> 
>> Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a 
>> live, graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:
>> 
>> 1. the interaction metaphors are different
>> 2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)
>> 
>> That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something that 
>> can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, however, 
>> once things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating most of the 
>> core logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try to keep it up 
>> to date with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. In short: it's a 
>> lot of thankless work that is best *not* done without lots of interest, 
>> resources, and support.
>> 
>> The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
>> distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where your 
>> question is focused.
>> 
>> As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear 
>> decision early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the reasons 
>> mentioned above.
>> 
>> On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
>> From: Matevz Leskovsek 
>> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
>> Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
>> pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
>> that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
>> still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
>> creating and running pd patches. Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>> 
>> 
>> 



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Re: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?

[Matevz Leskovsek]

Dan thanks! Yes your considerations are reasonable but sadly pd has
really lost its "livecoding" angle when Android/iOS devices became so
popular. Smartphones are portable and have so many sensors that
livecoding on android would really make much more sense than coding on
desktop and deploying to smartphone for each change. I hope there will
be some effort to rewrite pd-lib to run in stock android and I am
willing to help (although I am worst programmer ever.. I am kinda good
tester and profiler though). And if it is actually possible to run
pd-lib on rooted android that is interesting but I am somewhat
suspicious. If there is a linux container for androids that would be
easier I guess (but not so RAM friendly). Btw, I've noticed purrdata
js runtime for pd is available but again I think it does not allow
patch creation/editing, only patch running? Btw, pddroidparty webpage
is really nicely organised and clear in its communication -> much
respect! Thanks!

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:21 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>
> Howdy Matevz,
>
> I don't believe so, although I must include the caveat tat I do not use 
> Android, so perhaps there is something out there I am not aware of.
>
> Running patches via libpd in a mobile app is much easier than creating a 
> live, graphical *editor* as with desktop Pd as:
>
> 1. the interaction metaphors are different
> 2. libpd does not have a way to tap into the core pd editing logic (yet)
>
> That being said (written?), it's certainly possible to create something that 
> can automate writing a Pd file which can then be loaded by libpd, however, 
> once things complicated enough, you basically end up duplicating most of the 
> core logic with the detriment that you have to carefully try to keep it up to 
> date with whatever version of pd / libpd you are using. In short: it's a lot 
> of thankless work that is best *not* done without lots of interest, 
> resources, and support.
>
> The closest thing I can think of is rooting the device to install a Linux 
> distro so you can run *desktop* Pd, however I don't think this is where your 
> question is focused.
>
> As the author of PdParty, which utilizes libpd on iOS, I made a clear 
> decision early on to *not* tackle on-device editing, mainly for the reasons 
> mentioned above.
>
> On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:44:58 +0100
> From: Matevz Leskovsek 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: [PD] Creating/editing patches on android?
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi all, as I remember all those PD on Android platforms (mobmuplat,
> pddroid) only allowed running patches and not editing those, meaning
> that one needed a desktop computer to create and edit patches. Is this
> still the case or is it possible now to use Android device for
> creating and running pd patches. Thanks!
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>



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