Re: The JCO survey
Yes. Taken in context with the tone of most of your posts it's not funny at all. Dave On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You think "big dummy" is rude? Have you > Ever seen the classic TV show "Sanford and Son"? It's a joke. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > David Savage > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:24 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > John, do you talk to people like this face to face? > > The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so > much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. > > Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just > childish. > > Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Almost Abandoned
For some funny reason, this struck me as looking at a wall, rather than a building - maybe it is because I can't really see any other sides...a bit perplexed about it. -- Bruce Saturday, October 21, 2006, 3:10:02 PM, you wrote: PJA> This was going to be by PUG entry this month but I had to go out last PJA> night and didn't get in till after midnight, and forgot all about it PJA> anyway. so here it is: PJA> http://www.mindspring.com/~morephotos/PESO_--_almostabandoned.html PJA> No technical info: Just a Pentax Camera and Lens PJA> Comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. PJA> -- PJA> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. PJA>--Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
In the cold, the metal gets slick, the rubber doesn't.
I've got rubber-grip lenses dating back to pre-K/M era ('72-era Nikkors)
and none of them have worn down and gotten slick. The only slick rubber
grip lens I have is the SMC-F 35-70 which came that way, and it was a
cheap hunk of crap even when new.
-Adam
J. C. O'Connell wrote:
> Listen mr thinks he knows it all, those rubber
> Grips wear down and get slick while the huge
> Protrusions in the metal rings we were talking
> About don't. anybody who slips with those
> Protuded metal lenses is a limp wristed
> Wimp.
>
> Secondly, I have the opposite problem,
> The heat here in FL, especially in the
> Summer causes the rubber ones to get
> Wet and slippery due to perspiration
> And the metal protruded ones are better
> For that too.
>
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> William Robb
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:11 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "J. C. O'Connell"
> Subject: RE: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
>
>
>> Look at these lenses, these lenses focus rings are not
>> Round, they have real big protrusions.
>> They are far less likely to slip than
>> Any smooth round rubber grip.
>
> You obviously don't shoot outside in very cold conditions.
> You don't know what you are talking about.
> People who use cameras in the cold do.
> Find a subject you know about.
>
> William Robb
>
>
>
>
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
It's hardly the case that "the first AE automation systems were all shutter preferred". First autoexposure SLR cameras were the Konica Auto Reflex (1966 or thereabouts, shutter preferred), Pentax ES (1971, aperture preferred), Nikkormat EL (1972, aperture preferred), Minolta XE-7 (aperture preferred, 1974), Olympus OM-2 (aperture preferred, 1975), and Canon AE-1 (shutter preferred, 1976). The Pentax ES was notably the first that offered TTL metering. Godfrey On Oct 21, 2006, at 7:30 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: > The first AE automation systems were all shutter preferred. They > mostly > seemed to use a trap needle system. When the shutter was depressed > the > aperture needle was trapped at it's current location which limited the > lens stop down lever's travel. Most of these cameras did not allow > TTL > metering in manual mode. Typical is the Canon AE1 which required that > you read the aperture from the scale in the viewfinder and transfer it > to the lens, (the same is true of the various Konica AR cameras I've > handled, as well). Aperture preferred automation required a reliable > electronic shutter, which was one of Pentax's claims to fame, in > the ES > and ESII. These were introduced several years after the first shutter > preferred automation cameras. Later cameras added both (and therefore > program modes), as the electronically timed shutters were less > expensive > and more reliable. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I don't think quick proper automatic exposure settings Which is what has been disabled with K/M lenses Is something "prehistoric". You are maybe, but not that feature. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:17 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Stupid [EMAIL PROTECTED] shit. If modern features > Are important, they WHY WHY WHY ignore > The most modern features the K/M lenses > Have? Because the most modern features they offer are prehistoric. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
WRONG. The reasons given most commonly Are cost and desire to sell new replacement Lenes. The fact that the communication Is mechanical is totally unrelated And not the issue at all. It's a very Simple single cam, not a freaking clockwork. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:15 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The K/M lenses communicate their fstop > Setting via a mechanical cam. The DSLRs > Release by pentax ignore that communique. > That is the body's fault for not listening > As the information is there for the taking. Pentax decided that this method of information transfer was outdated and it was no longer in their best interests to support it. They can't make enough equipment to supply the demand for it. This may mean that they made the right decision. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: AW: PESO - The morning ride
Thanks, kindly. The bikers and their positions is what made me pick this one out of the bunch. -- Bruce Saturday, October 21, 2006, 6:08:20 PM, you wrote: MM> I agree with Cotty Bruce, the bikers add a lot and it's a great view. MM> greetings MM> Markus MM> -Ursprungliche Nachricht- MM> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von MM> Cotty MM> Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2006 22:21 MM> An: pentax list MM> Betreff: Re: PESO - The morning ride MM> On 16/10/06, Bruce Dayton, discombobulated, unleashed: >>Taken in San Franciso. >> >> >>Pentax *istD, DA 16-45/4 @ 45mm, >>ISO 200, 1/90 sec @ f/11 >> >>http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_3513a.htm MM> Fantastic shot Bruce, one of the best pics of its type I've ever seen. MM> Says it all mate - GREAT pic. Well done! MM> -- MM> Cheers, MM> Cotty MM> ___/\__ MM> || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche MM> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com MM> _ MM> -- MM> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List MM> PDML@pdml.net MM> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO:Acorn - and greetings to Boris
Hello Markus, I like the acorn, but the background has lots of highlights that kind of distract me from the subject. Was this shot with flash? Is that what is causing the wet wood to highlight so? -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, October 21, 2006, 5:54:33 PM, you wrote: MM> Hi Boris MM> thanks for the greeting first! MM> I'm still reading in the background **some** of the discussions but did miss MM> PAW and PESO in the last days. MM> I have to delete hundreds of unread messages from time to time... MM> I'm quite busy taking photos with my old film equipment and always carry a MM> camera with me nowadays ;-) MM> I see photo postings reappearing now again and I liked your theatre shots. MM> The website loaded very slowly for me but otherwise you did fine despite MM> your "limited" equipment (BG). MM> greetings MM> Markus MM> "Harvest acorn shot" with the ME Super, Pentax AF280T flash, Pentax A50mm MM> Macro on Fuji Superia film MM> http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5105598&size=lg (187KB) >>>Hey Markus... >>>Long time I did not seem to see you here... Unless I am badly off mark >>>here - welcome back! >>>Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Minolta had a full line of MC/MD Lenses for 15 years after Maxxum Introduction? P.S. and it's a big P.S., Minolta essentially went out Of business recently... jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:21 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Minolta did so successfully for more than 15 years. What killed Minolta was their failure to develop their AF line until too late (the Maxxum 9 was their first real high-end body and it didn't show up until the late 90's, the Maxxum 7 is still the best mid-range AF film body ever made). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Do you really think they could have > Possibly kept two incompatible SLR > Systems concurrently? It was upgrade to EOS > And discontinue FD or be stuck with the > FD limitations forever. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:49 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> I applaud Canon because they have a much >> Better SLR/DSLR system than Pentax, not >> Becaue they had to drop FD to do it. > > They didn't have to drop FD. > > You fail to understand the signifigance that > LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term > Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
This is absurd. Please give it a rest. You cannot be serious if you honestly Think that K/M lenses are not losing Features with these DSLR bodies. And they are fundamental features Too like full range WIDE OPEN Metering, continous AE, compensation For exposure factors like variable Aperture zooms, macro extensions, etc. Just because the newer lenses have AF or what other added automations Does not mean its OK to just throw Away whatever automation the earlier Lenses feature. In fact if automation Is what makes the newer lenses "modern", then why make K/M lenses LESS modern than they already are? You keep making the same dumb contradictory Argument over and over. You claim the Old lenses are outdated due to the newer Lenses automations and then go on To say that the automation the old Lenses have lost doesn't matter. That is a major contradiction And it just goes on and on and on from You and some others. That is a Really dumb argument. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:01 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Not minding losing automation after saying > How much more he enjoys automation is really > Dumb. There is no way to get around that > Stupidity. If he said he preferred to work > Slow and manually and doesn't care for automation > In his methods, that would be one thing, but > He just said exactly how much he enjoyed the opposite. There is a lot of automation that isn't supported by K/M lenses. I know you don't understand that, but it's true. Besides, K/M lenses still work as auto exposure lenses with the DSLR cameras. I know you don't understand that either, but it's true. My mentor told me that a closed mind gathers no thoughts. You are a classic example of what he was talking about. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Your first camera
Maybe I am helping to break that past trend. Both of my oldest daughters have shown great interest. My oldest has both an MX and *ist film cameras. My next daughter just finished shooting a wedding with me yesterday using one of my *istD's. -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, October 21, 2006, 6:34:51 PM, you wrote: Eac> Sidebar - It's been interesting to me how many men on this list started young Eac> -- given a camera by their father, uncle, neighbor, some older male. Sort of Eac> a male thing. Maybe even a male bonding thing. Eac> I know in my family, my father gave a 35mm camera to my older brother and not Eac> me (got a new one, passed the old one along). Guys are supposed to techie or Eac> something, right? Well, those assumptions were definitely prevalent back then. Eac> Later when I was going to take a trip to Tahiti in my thirties I got myself a Eac> Pentax P&S and that was my first real camera. Eac> Anyway, I started wondering if that isn't one reason more men than women use Eac> SLRs and DSLRs. (I think with P&Ss the gender percentages are probably about Eac> the same.) Eac> Guys were handed cameras young. Eac> Idle speculation, but interesting. At least to me. Eac> Marnie aka Doe :-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
J. C. O'Connell wrote: > You think "big dummy" is rude? Have you > Ever seen the classic TV show "Sanford and Son"? It's a joke. A joke. I see. Your jokes are about as good as your arguments (and your manners). Keith McG > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > David Savage > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:24 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > John, do you talk to people like this face to face? > > The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so > much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. > > Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just > childish. > > Dave > > On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission >> Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses >> Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its >> Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important >> To have the K/M automation features removed. If he >> Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that >> Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Keith McGuinness >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> Shel Belinkoff wrote: >>> It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, > and >> get >>> pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, >> you're >>> so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of > doing >>> things, you can't understand that. >> Of course! >> >> And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the >> various lenses. >> >> His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the >> loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. >> >> THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. >> >> Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the >> point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get >> the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end >> of that argument. >> >> Keith McG > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
Listen mr thinks he knows it all, those rubber Grips wear down and get slick while the huge Protrusions in the metal rings we were talking About don't. anybody who slips with those Protuded metal lenses is a limp wristed Wimp. Secondly, I have the opposite problem, The heat here in FL, especially in the Summer causes the rubber ones to get Wet and slippery due to perspiration And the metal protruded ones are better For that too. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:11 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars > Look at these lenses, these lenses focus rings are not > Round, they have real big protrusions. > They are far less likely to slip than > Any smooth round rubber grip. You obviously don't shoot outside in very cold conditions. You don't know what you are talking about. People who use cameras in the cold do. Find a subject you know about. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
They are offering at least one thing, No new cameras that force you to buy Lenses again you already have because They just killed the features in your's. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:12 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Yes, leica is charging you a nice amount to add a sticker to enable certainl functionality on their new body. Note that apart from said sticker and the optical reader for it, there's no mount changes from the M3 to the M8. Leica still isn't offering anything that wasn't offered 30+ years ago by someone else. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Hell, Leica is even now offering mod services to make > Older lenses function even BETTER than new, not worse > Than new like pentax is doing. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:50 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> Well canon isnt leice is it and someone stated >> Pentax had the "best in business" older lens >> Support. They don't. > > They do for SLR cameras. > I expect that was what the person meant. > > William Robb > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
You cant answer simple questions? Don't you have the mental capacity To do so or what? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:16 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Are you saying all FD lenses were > Capable of having there absolute > Fstop set by the body? The would > Have to have that feature for > Shutter priority modes. Go do your own homework. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Actually, no the Digital Rebel was not the exception. At the time, for DSLR's there were the Nikon D1x and D1h (Pro bodies), the D100 (Damned near identical to the *istD), the Canon 1D and 1Ds (pro bodies), the Canon 10D (very similar to the *istD) and the Digital Rebel, as well as the Fujifilm S2 Pro (inferior to the *istD), the Contax N digital (Comparable to the *istD with poor-performing 6MP full-frame sensor, same sensor as in the cancelled MZ-D) and the Kodak DCS760 (F5 based pro body, very similar to the D1x) So there were 5 full-on pro bodies, 3 other similar bodies (Although the Contax cost more like the Pro bodies) and two inferior bodies, with a third (the D70) arriving about 3 months later. That isn't 'far and away many many more BETTER DSLRS on the market'. It isn't even close to that. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Ah, maybe the digital rebel is why pentax's DSLRS > Got worse instead of better after the *istD > Came out. > > Still there were far and away many many more > BETTER DSLRS on the market when ist came > Out. Digital rebel being the exception. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:53 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > The Digital Rebel was indeed on the market when the *istD shipped. It > was announced in August and shipped in late spetember IIRC. > > And everything about the Digital Rebel was lower-spec than the *istD, > escept the flash sync. > > The Digital Rebel is a cheap plastic camera with a tiny wee pentamirror > finder, slow AF, slow to turn on (About 3x as slow as the *istD), with a > > crippled flash subsystem, limited to ISO1600 and a single-wheel > interface. It's roughly comparable to the *istDL, except the DL has a > superior finder and superior build quality. The only thing comparable > between the Digital Rebel and the *istD is image quality, teh Rebel's > was as good as any other 6MP body. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> Was the digtal rebel on the market when the istD >> Came out and what was lower about it other than >> Price? >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:51 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD > shipped >> in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid >> 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). >> >> The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and >> performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due > to >> a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when > it >> was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro >> bodies (Which none of them were). >> >> -Adam >> >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER >>> Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD >>> Came out. Pentax >>> Started cheap and at the bottom and worked >>> Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Adam Maas >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >>> >>> Nope. >>> >>> It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D >> offered >>> only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 >> were >>> lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the >> *istD's >>> introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in >>> production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be >>> better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately > the >>> same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as > >>> well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original >> rebel >>> is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 >> Pro >>> can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier >> technology) >>> -Adam >>> >>> >>> J. C. O'Connell wrote: The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market At the time. Just because they later made even Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" The bottom just got lower which was weird. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >>> Of Shel Belinkoff Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: The JCO survey You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, >>> nor did it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible >>
RE: The JCO survey
You are missing the point. Communication Via any method is better than ZERO. The new bodies are IGNORING lens communication Of the K/M lenses. Just because its mechanical Doesn't mean its of no value or meaningless. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:13 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey That's what makes them outdated. A and later lenses communicate that information electrically (And F and later ones are electronic). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The K/M lenses communicate their fstop > Setting via a mechanical cam. The DSLRs > Release by pentax ignore that communique. > That is the body's fault for not listening > As the information is there for the taking. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:28 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Of course, that observation is utterly irrelevant to the point of why > K/M lenses are outdated. > > They don't support full lens/body communication, since they lack the > firmware and digital communication contacts. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera >> Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's >> Fault, not the lenses fault. >> jco >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. > >> Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are >>> Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> William Robb >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "P. J. Alling" >>> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >>> >>> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can > figure out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal retentives on this list, that is. >>> It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on >> modern >>> cameras. >>> >>> William Robb >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
And I am just pointing out to you That I would NOT be arguing if Pentax Made a major improvement in their Mount like Canon did with EOS, BUT THEY HAVENT. Its just gotten WORSE with zero photographic Gain. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:03 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Do you really think they could have > Possibly kept two incompatible SLR > Systems concurrently? It was upgrade to EOS > And discontinue FD or be stuck with the > FD limitations forever. I'm just pointing out what you said, then decided you didn't believe when it became unhandy to your argument. There is an irony in it that you seem to be missing William Robb > You fail to understand the signifigance that > LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term > Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO - Waiting
nice! this one definately sets a mood... russell On 10/20/06, Boris Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=15453&full=1 > > Once the chocolate was brought we all had a blast ;-). > > Well, I am continuing experiments with low light photography. > > Your honest and brutal comments are sought after. > > Boris > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Ah, maybe the digital rebel is why pentax's DSLRS Got worse instead of better after the *istD Came out. Still there were far and away many many more BETTER DSLRS on the market when ist came Out. Digital rebel being the exception. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:53 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey The Digital Rebel was indeed on the market when the *istD shipped. It was announced in August and shipped in late spetember IIRC. And everything about the Digital Rebel was lower-spec than the *istD, escept the flash sync. The Digital Rebel is a cheap plastic camera with a tiny wee pentamirror finder, slow AF, slow to turn on (About 3x as slow as the *istD), with a crippled flash subsystem, limited to ISO1600 and a single-wheel interface. It's roughly comparable to the *istDL, except the DL has a superior finder and superior build quality. The only thing comparable between the Digital Rebel and the *istD is image quality, teh Rebel's was as good as any other 6MP body. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Was the digtal rebel on the market when the istD > Came out and what was lower about it other than > Price? > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:51 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD shipped > > in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid > 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). > > The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and > performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due to > > a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when it > > was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro > bodies (Which none of them were). > > -Adam > > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER >> Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD >> Came out. Pentax >> Started cheap and at the bottom and worked >> Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> Nope. >> >> It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D > offered >> only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 > were >> lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the > *istD's >> introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in >> production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be >> better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately the > >> same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as >> well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original > rebel >> is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 > Pro >> can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier > technology) >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to >>> All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market >>> At the time. Just because they later made even >>> Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" >>> The bottom just got lower which was weird. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Shel Belinkoff >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >>> >>> You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, >> nor >>> did >>> it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible > model >>> they >>> could ..." After the D came the DS, which was substantially less >>> expensive >>> even though it had some benefits and features the D didn't have. The >> DS >>> was quickly followed by the DL, which was even less expensive, had >> fewer >>> features than the DS. The DS and DL were great successes for Pentax. >>> Shel >>> >>> >>> [Original Message] From: J. C. O'Connell This is the third time I have posted my thery on this. I think that Pentax's first DSLR (*istD) was trying To be the cheapest possible model they could hit the DSLR scene with. In that case, it's a BOTTOM OF THE LINE Model >>> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Dumb Dumb Dumb. The situation goes BOTH WAYS you twit. The DSLR cameras cant take full advantage of the K/M Lenses capabities either. Its not a purely lens limited Camera. The DSLR CAMERAS are limiting/deleting the features With K/M lenses that K/M lenses were designed to do And still can. Dumb & Dumber. Both the DSLR cameras and you. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:52 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Then what you call these DSLRs that don't support > Pentax K mount lenses fully, "OUTDATED the minute > They are released" ? Duh. The lenses are outdated, not the cameras. They can't take advantage of the camera's capabilities. You really are stupid if you think otherwise. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Your argument is not supported by the KM DSLR Users. They claim that BG is no big deal to use And they arent claiming the the KM lenses themselves Are outdated like YOU are. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:38 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera > Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's > Fault, not the lenses fault. It's not about fault, its about capabilities. K/M lenses aren't on the map anymore. There is too much that they won't do, vs too little that they will do. John, you need to get over it. K/M is a relic of the film era. Pentax hasn't put the capability onto a DSLR, and they aren't likely to put it on anytime in the future. It doesn't matter how often you trot out your one argument in favour of it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Almost Abandoned
very nice, this is similar to what I wanted to shoot (but never got around to) for this topic. I really like the colors a lot, good job russell On 10/21/06, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This was going to be by PUG entry this month but I had to go out last > night and didn't get in till after midnight, and forgot all about it > anyway. so here it is: > > http://www.mindspring.com/~morephotos/PESO_--_almostabandoned.html > > No technical info: Just a Pentax Camera and Lens > > Comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. > > --Albert Einstein > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I asked a question because I didn't know. There is no such thing as a stupid question. A total loser like you guesses and pretends at things He doesn't know and looks far worse and remains Ignorant forever. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:39 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" < Subject: RE: The JCO survey >I meant SLR cameras. Are you > Sure about the AE-1? I didn't > Think that the FD lenses had > Aperture control via the body > Available. You should do your research before asking questions that will make you look like a total loser when answered. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT
My apologies on this one, my mail server (which has been having severe issues over the last week or so) dumped this out of its deferred queue this evening and I didn't check the date on your response. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Why are you posting stuff from a week ago > Now? We already covered this misunderstanding many > Days ago. > ??? > JCO > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:22 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT > > No, I didn't. in fact I never said that (As postings I've reposted > indicate, I said that I did it often when shooting with M42 bodies, but > of course you can't admit that you're wrong even when it's proven, like > this case). > > I don't know why you're now referring to me in the 3rd person in > repsonse to my own post. Maybe just another demonstration of your > copious english skills. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> No, he meant "ALL THE TIME" literally >> And then went on to tell me a BS >> Story why when I specifically asked >> Him WHY WHY WHY he did it **ALL** the time? >> He didn't say most or some of, he said ALL >> The time. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:58 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >> >> No, aparently you are unfamiliar with the general usage of the phrase >> 'all the time', which means 'on a regular basis'. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> See , you changed your story. You initially stated >>> You shot stopped down ALL THE TIME which was the >>> Very reason I pressed on the matter because it was >>> Senseless way to opertate. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Adam Maas >>> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:54 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >>> >>> Except, based on the caveats I gave (Close to wide open, in good >> light), >>> your arguments are incorrect. >>> >>> Your arguments are only correct for small apertures and low light. IN > >>> which case, I focus wide open. And I rarely do the former, ant >> typically >>> use my open-aperture only gear for the latter. >>> >>> -Adam >>> >>> >>> J. C. O'Connell wrote: It is NOT faster to focus stopped down, the wider DOF and dimmer >> image Makes it HARDER not easier to focus accurately. Why Do you think auto aperture cameras and lenses were developed Way back in the 50's? Because its easier and faster way To work. I know because I have been using those cameras For years and years too. Less DOF means easier focus. Period. I am not arguing how he works, I am arguing the REASON He gave. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >>> Of Shel Belinkoff Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:56 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT You're just making a fool of yourself. What hubris to tell someone >>> how they choose to photograph or use their gear is wrong. Let me tell you something ... I don't know how old you are or how >> long you've been photographing, but I'm willing to wager you're not as > old >>> as I and that you've not been photographing as long either. When I shot >>> with Spotties back in the late sixties, I'd often shoot with the lens >>> stopped down, and depending on the lens, light, and scene, I'd shoot @ 5.6 > or 8.0. I knew EXACTLY what I was doing. Shooting that way could be fast > and accurate. With the better finders of today - brighter and more contrasty - it's even easier to shoot in that manner. Anyway, YOU don't have to see it. It's what Adam sees that > matters. To call someone you don't know stupid and a liar here in a public >>> forum shows more about you and your character than you probably want us to know. Shel > [Original Message] > From: J. C. O'Connell > See my last post, your reason for doing so is flawed > And there are other reasons why its worse too. > jco > > -Original Message- > Adam Maas > John, You Ignorant Slut, > > It's quicker and I can see what's in focus at all times. Simple as that. > Just because you don't, doesn't mean I can't. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> When the thread title is stupid I am going to comment on it. >> Secondly why havent you told us WHY WHY WHY you shoot with >> M42 auto-aperture lenses and bodies stop
Re: The JCO survey
Yes, leica is charging you a nice amount to add a sticker to enable certainl functionality on their new body. Note that apart from said sticker and the optical reader for it, there's no mount changes from the M3 to the M8. Leica still isn't offering anything that wasn't offered 30+ years ago by someone else. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Hell, Leica is even now offering mod services to make > Older lenses function even BETTER than new, not worse > Than new like pentax is doing. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:50 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> Well canon isnt leice is it and someone stated >> Pentax had the "best in business" older lens >> Support. They don't. > > They do for SLR cameras. > I expect that was what the person meant. > > William Robb > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I know how the current cameras are configured but Wasn't talking about the current cameras, I was Talking about why I don't like or use shutter priority On MY cameras. As for whether its easier to set Apetures via lens ring or body buttons, that is Up for debate too but the 70's cameras we were talking About ( at least I was ) had shutter dials on top And aperture rings on lenses and the aperture rings Were and are much easier to adjust manually than The shutter speed dial with your eye to the finder. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:55 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > , its much harder to manually set shutter speeds via the > Shutter dial on top of the body than it is to manually set aperture > Settings via the aperture ring You need to check out the cameras that you are talking about. The shutter speed dial on top of the camera is also a relic of the past. Your operating preference is no longer valid. SLAM DUNK, PUNK. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Just like aperture cam sensors are important for Some people. Why pay extra for build quality? It only Adds cost. ( just kidding ). jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "Adam Maas" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD > shipped > in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid > 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). > > The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and > performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due > to > a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when > it > was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro > bodies (Which none of them were). The istD also has a much nicer build feel to it. For some people, this is important. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
That's what makes them outdated. A and later lenses communicate that information electrically (And F and later ones are electronic). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The K/M lenses communicate their fstop > Setting via a mechanical cam. The DSLRs > Release by pentax ignore that communique. > That is the body's fault for not listening > As the information is there for the taking. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:28 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Of course, that observation is utterly irrelevant to the point of why > K/M lenses are outdated. > > They don't support full lens/body communication, since they lack the > firmware and digital communication contacts. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera >> Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's >> Fault, not the lenses fault. >> jco >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. > >> Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are >>> Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> William Robb >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "P. J. Alling" >>> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >>> >>> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can > figure out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal retentives on this list, that is. >>> It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on >> modern >>> cameras. >>> >>> William Robb >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Minolta did so successfully for more than 15 years. What killed Minolta was their failure to develop their AF line until too late (the Maxxum 9 was their first real high-end body and it didn't show up until the late 90's, the Maxxum 7 is still the best mid-range AF film body ever made). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Do you really think they could have > Possibly kept two incompatible SLR > Systems concurrently? It was upgrade to EOS > And discontinue FD or be stuck with the > FD limitations forever. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:49 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> I applaud Canon because they have a much >> Better SLR/DSLR system than Pentax, not >> Becaue they had to drop FD to do it. > > They didn't have to drop FD. > > You fail to understand the signifigance that > LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term > Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Stupid [EMAIL PROTECTED] shit. If modern features > Are important, they WHY WHY WHY ignore > The most modern features the K/M lenses > Have? Because the most modern features they offer are prehistoric. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
William Robb wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> Hell, Leica is even now offering mod services to make >> Older lenses function even BETTER than new, not worse >> Than new like pentax is doing. > > If it's SLR lenses, then it's long overdue. > > William Robb > No, the SLR lenses are a mess of compatibility still (one, two and three cam units as well as the latest ROM units that feature electronic lens/body communication). This is the M lenses, that need a 6bit optical tag to enable certain auto-correction features in the M8. It's essentially a sticker. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT
Why are you posting stuff from a week ago Now? We already covered this misunderstanding many Days ago. ??? JCO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:22 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT No, I didn't. in fact I never said that (As postings I've reposted indicate, I said that I did it often when shooting with M42 bodies, but of course you can't admit that you're wrong even when it's proven, like this case). I don't know why you're now referring to me in the 3rd person in repsonse to my own post. Maybe just another demonstration of your copious english skills. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > No, he meant "ALL THE TIME" literally > And then went on to tell me a BS > Story why when I specifically asked > Him WHY WHY WHY he did it **ALL** the time? > He didn't say most or some of, he said ALL > The time. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:58 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT > > No, aparently you are unfamiliar with the general usage of the phrase > 'all the time', which means 'on a regular basis'. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> See , you changed your story. You initially stated >> You shot stopped down ALL THE TIME which was the >> Very reason I pressed on the matter because it was >> Senseless way to opertate. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:54 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >> >> Except, based on the caveats I gave (Close to wide open, in good > light), >> your arguments are incorrect. >> >> Your arguments are only correct for small apertures and low light. IN >> which case, I focus wide open. And I rarely do the former, ant > typically >> use my open-aperture only gear for the latter. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> It is NOT faster to focus stopped down, the wider DOF and dimmer > image >>> Makes it HARDER not easier to focus accurately. Why >>> Do you think auto aperture cameras and lenses were developed >>> Way back in the 50's? Because its easier and faster way >>> To work. I know because I have been using those cameras >>> For years and years too. Less DOF means easier focus. Period. >>> I am not arguing how he works, I am arguing the REASON >>> He gave. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Shel Belinkoff >>> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:56 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: RE: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >>> >>> You're just making a fool of yourself. What hubris to tell someone >> how >>> they choose to photograph or use their gear is wrong. >>> >>> Let me tell you something ... I don't know how old you are or how > long >>> you've been photographing, but I'm willing to wager you're not as old >> as >>> I >>> and that you've not been photographing as long either. When I shot >> with >>> Spotties back in the late sixties, I'd often shoot with the lens >> stopped >>> down, and depending on the lens, light, and scene, I'd shoot @ 5.6 or >>> 8.0. >>> I knew EXACTLY what I was doing. Shooting that way could be fast and >>> accurate. With the better finders of today - brighter and more >>> contrasty - >>> it's even easier to shoot in that manner. >>> >>> Anyway, YOU don't have to see it. It's what Adam sees that matters. >>> >>> To call someone you don't know stupid and a liar here in a public >> forum >>> shows more about you and your character than you probably want us to >>> know. >>> >>> Shel >>> >>> >>> [Original Message] From: J. C. O'Connell See my last post, your reason for doing so is flawed And there are other reasons why its worse too. jco -Original Message- Adam Maas John, You Ignorant Slut, It's quicker and I can see what's in focus at all times. Simple as >>> that. Just because you don't, doesn't mean I can't. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > When the thread title is stupid I am going to comment on it. > Secondly why havent you told us WHY WHY WHY you shoot with > M42 auto-aperture lenses and bodies stopped down all the time? > I don't believe it, either your stupid for doing so or your > A liar for saying so unless you have some good explanation > For doing so which I simply cant imagine as I am a LONG TIME > User of M42 bodies and lenses and that makes no sense whatsoever > To me at this point. I'd love to hear your reason for doing so. > Maybe there is something I am missing but
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The K/M lenses communicate their fstop > Setting via a mechanical cam. The DSLRs > Release by pentax ignore that communique. > That is the body's fault for not listening > As the information is there for the taking. Pentax decided that this method of information transfer was outdated and it was no longer in their best interests to support it. They can't make enough equipment to supply the demand for it. This may mean that they made the right decision. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars > Look at these lenses, these lenses focus rings are not > Round, they have real big protrusions. > They are far less likely to slip than > Any smooth round rubber grip. You obviously don't shoot outside in very cold conditions. You don't know what you are talking about. People who use cameras in the cold do. Find a subject you know about. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Are you saying all FD lenses were Capable of having there absolute Fstop set by the body? The would Have to have that feature for Shutter priority modes. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:29 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Two of those are SLR's. And the AE-1 did shutter priority and manual only. The AE-1 Program added Program mode. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > I meant SLR cameras. Are you > Sure about the AE-1? I didn't > Think that the FD lenses had > Aperture control via the body > Available. > joc > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:44 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Canon AE-1. Nikon F2 with the Aperture Control unit added, Any Canonet > with AE. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> Aperture preffered was always more >> Popular than shutter preferred, probably >> Because it controls DOF better than >> Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs >> Had it while few offered shutter priority. >> Can you name a single camera that only >> Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition >> To aperture priority) >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> William Robb >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:14 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "J. C. O'Connell" >> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >> >> >>> I am sorry, but this is a really, really, bad argument. On one hand > you >>> Are saying you enjoy the "much more enjoyable" automation of "A" and >>> later lenses and bodies, But then on the other hand youre saying > that >>> removal of the only Automation the K/M lenses have is "of little >>> consequence". I am sorry But that is a really ridiculous argument. > You >>> cant have it both ways dude. Either the automation options are a good >>> thing are they arent, you are arguing against yourself in totally >>> opposite directions in the same post! >> I happen to like Program mode for when I want to do mindless >> snapshooting and shutter preferred auto when I want an automatic >> exposure mode. >> K/M lenses support none of the above automation functions. >> Aperture preferred auto is something I never use anymore, and > something >> I only used out of desperation when it was the only automatic exposure > >> choice I had. >> >> William Robb >> >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Are you saying all FD lenses were > Capable of having there absolute > Fstop set by the body? The would > Have to have that feature for > Shutter priority modes. Go do your own homework. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Hell, Leica is even now offering mod services to make > Older lenses function even BETTER than new, not worse > Than new like pentax is doing. If it's SLR lenses, then it's long overdue. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
The K/M lenses communicate their fstop Setting via a mechanical cam. The DSLRs Release by pentax ignore that communique. That is the body's fault for not listening As the information is there for the taking. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Of course, that observation is utterly irrelevant to the point of why K/M lenses are outdated. They don't support full lens/body communication, since they lack the firmware and digital communication contacts. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera > Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's > Fault, not the lenses fault. > jco > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. > Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are >> Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> William Robb >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "P. J. Alling" >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >>> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >>> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >>> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >>> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >>> retentives >>> on this list, that is. >> It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on > modern >> cameras. >> >> William Robb >> >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Do you really think they could have Possibly kept two incompatible SLR Systems concurrently? It was upgrade to EOS And discontinue FD or be stuck with the FD limitations forever. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:49 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey >I applaud Canon because they have a much > Better SLR/DSLR system than Pentax, not > Becaue they had to drop FD to do it. They didn't have to drop FD. You fail to understand the signifigance that LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
John, I own one of these lenses (A very nice little Super Takumar 50/1.4). Only one of my rubber-grip lenses has a smooth grip (the $40 SMC-F 35-80 f4-5.6). The knurled rubber grips have more friction and grip better than the knurled metal units. Both are thoroughly usable (unlike the craptacular focus ring on the SMC-F 35-80) -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Look at these lenses, these lenses focus rings are not > Round, they have real big protrusions. > They are far less likely to slip than > Any smooth round rubber grip. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:05 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars > > Try them with gloves in -20C weather. The metal gets slick, the rubber > less so. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> I don't get that one, the SMCT >> Lenses are nowhere near as >> Smooth as any rubber grip lenses. >> Its virtually impossible to slip >> With them. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:03 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars >> >> I prefer a good rubber ring as it's easier to grip with gloves and in >> other adverse conditions. The knurled rings slip, although they do > feel >> more solid. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: >>> Never really liked this style of knurled control ring much. It is >>> identical to the original Nikkors that my Nikon F came with. I prefer >>> the knurled control rings on the Nikkor AI-S lenses, and think >>> they're nicer looking. >>> >>> But this is just a matter of aesthetics and does not influence >>> operation at all. >>> >>> Godfrey >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Jens Bladt wrote: >>> Well, I cant show you the auction I'm bidding on ... Perhaps the later Takumar versions, with a rubber ring, are better - but they don't look so good :-) >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Not minding losing automation after saying > How much more he enjoys automation is really > Dumb. There is no way to get around that > Stupidity. If he said he preferred to work > Slow and manually and doesn't care for automation > In his methods, that would be one thing, but > He just said exactly how much he enjoyed the opposite. There is a lot of automation that isn't supported by K/M lenses. I know you don't understand that, but it's true. Besides, K/M lenses still work as auto exposure lenses with the DSLR cameras. I know you don't understand that either, but it's true. My mentor told me that a closed mind gathers no thoughts. You are a classic example of what he was talking about. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
You think "big dummy" is rude? Have you Ever seen the classic TV show "Sanford and Son"? It's a joke. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Savage Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:24 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey John, do you talk to people like this face to face? The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just childish. Dave On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Keith McGuinness > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, and > get > > pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, > you're > > so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of doing > > things, you can't understand that. > > Of course! > > And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the > various lenses. > > His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the > loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. > > THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. > > Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the > point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get > the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end > of that argument. > > Keith McG -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Not minding losing automation after saying How much more he enjoys automation is really Dumb. There is no way to get around that Stupidity. If he said he preferred to work Slow and manually and doesn't care for automation In his methods, that would be one thing, but He just said exactly how much he enjoyed the opposite. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:03 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. Maybe he likes the automation such as auto focus, programmed exposure, shutter preferred auto, and hyper-manual, as well as the different metering modes that newer lenses offer more than he minds pushing a button at some point prior to pushing the shutter button. Because you don't know what you are talking about you keep making a big issue about a very small thing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Stupid [EMAIL PROTECTED] shit. If modern features Are important, they WHY WHY WHY ignore The most modern features the K/M lenses Have? Your argument is bass ackwards. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:54 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are > Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. The lenses are not able to offer too many features that modern camera users want. This makes them outdated. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Do you really think they could have > Possibly kept two incompatible SLR > Systems concurrently? It was upgrade to EOS > And discontinue FD or be stuck with the > FD limitations forever. I'm just pointing out what you said, then decided you didn't believe when it became unhandy to your argument. There is an irony in it that you seem to be missing William Robb > You fail to understand the signifigance that > LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term > Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Hell, Leica is even now offering mod services to make Older lenses function even BETTER than new, not worse Than new like pentax is doing. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:50 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Well canon isnt leice is it and someone stated > Pentax had the "best in business" older lens > Support. They don't. They do for SLR cameras. I expect that was what the person meant. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > , its much harder to manually set shutter speeds via the > Shutter dial on top of the body than it is to manually set aperture > Settings via the aperture ring You need to check out the cameras that you are talking about. The shutter speed dial on top of the camera is also a relic of the past. Your operating preference is no longer valid. SLAM DUNK, PUNK. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
Look at these lenses, these lenses focus rings are not Round, they have real big protrusions. They are far less likely to slip than Any smooth round rubber grip. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:05 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars Try them with gloves in -20C weather. The metal gets slick, the rubber less so. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > I don't get that one, the SMCT > Lenses are nowhere near as > Smooth as any rubber grip lenses. > Its virtually impossible to slip > With them. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:03 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars > > I prefer a good rubber ring as it's easier to grip with gloves and in > other adverse conditions. The knurled rings slip, although they do feel > more solid. > > -Adam > > > Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: >> Never really liked this style of knurled control ring much. It is >> identical to the original Nikkors that my Nikon F came with. I prefer > >> the knurled control rings on the Nikkor AI-S lenses, and think >> they're nicer looking. >> >> But this is just a matter of aesthetics and does not influence >> operation at all. >> >> Godfrey >> >> On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Jens Bladt wrote: >> >>> Well, I cant show you the auction I'm bidding on ... >>> Perhaps the later Takumar versions, with a rubber ring, are better >>> - but >>> they don't look so good :-) >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
That's not an issue with modern cameras that use control dials. Equally easy to do either. Note that many people shoot pseudo-shutter priority in manual with odler cameras for the reasons you note. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > I have given this more thought and I know why I MUCH > Rather prefer apeture priorty over shutter priority. > In either mode you are essentially choosing both > The shutter speed and f-stop combination so that's > Not really the issue. Its what is being done automatically > For you that's the issue. With aperture priority > The shutter speed is automatic and with shutter priority > The aperture setting is automatic. BUT, and it's a big > BUT, its much harder to manually set shutter speeds via the > Shutter dial on top of the body than it is to manually set aperture > Settings via the aperture ring (Both cases with your > Eye to the finder). Hence I would much rather have the > Camera do whats hardest for me automatically ( set the shutter speeds) > than > Do whats easier for me( set fstops ). That's the jist of it. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:46 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> Aperture preffered was always more >> Popular than shutter preferred, probably >> Because it controls DOF better than >> Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs >> Had it while few offered shutter priority. >> Can you name a single camera that only >> Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition >> To aperture priority) > > Trick question since by your wording you exclude cameras that have > manual mode in addition to auto. > You don't get to do that. > > Aperture preferred was technically easier to do, which was why it was > done. It was easier at the time to control the shutter electronically > than it was to stop down the lens mechanically. > > More pictures are compromised by slow shutter speeds than too little or > too much depth of field, so you cannot make a case that depth of field > control is more critical than blurry pictures from slow shutter speeds. > > So a few cameras that offered shutter preferred but not aperture > preferred automatic: > Note that they all offered manual exposure control as well, they were > not crippled meter cameras like the Pentax MV and it's ilk, or the Nikon > > EM, or Canon T-50. > > The Mamiya/Sekor Auto XTL had shutter preferred auto, as did the Canon > AE-1 (arguably the most popular SLR of it's day), as well as the earlier > > EX EE and EX Auto > The Nikon F2s was able to be adapted to shutter preferred automatic. > With the Canon F1, if you bought a particular viewfinder, then you got > aperture preferred auto, if you bought a motor drive, you got shutter > preferred auto, so it was possible to have an F1 with shutter preferred > auto but not aperture preferred auto. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
No, these DSLR's support full body/lens communication. They just lack one link that is only needed by certain long-outated lenses. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Then what you call these DSLRs that don't support > Pentax K mount lenses fully, "OUTDATED the minute > They are released" ? > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. > Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are >> Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> William Robb >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "P. J. Alling" >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >>> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >>> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >>> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >>> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >>> retentives >>> on this list, that is. >> It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on > modern >> cameras. >> >> William Robb >> >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Shel > [Original Message] > From: J. C. O'Connell > Was the digtal rebel on the market when the istD > Came out and what was lower about it other than > Price? > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:51 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD shipped > > in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid > 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). > > The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and > performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due to > > a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when it > > was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro > bodies (Which none of them were). > > -Adam > > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: > > Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER > > Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD > > Came out. Pentax > > Started cheap and at the bottom and worked > > Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). > > jco > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of > > Adam Maas > > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > > Nope. > > > > It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D > offered > > > > only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 > were > > > > lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the > *istD's > > > > introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in > > production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be > > better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately the > > > same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as > > well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original > rebel > > > > is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 > Pro > > can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier > technology) > > > > -Adam > > > > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: > >> The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to > >> All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market > >> At the time. Just because they later made even > >> Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" > >> The bottom just got lower which was weird. > >> jco > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of > >> Shel Belinkoff > >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: RE: The JCO survey > >> > >> You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, > > nor > >> did > >> it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible > model > >> they > >> could ..." After the D came the DS, which was substantially less > >> expensive > >> even though it had some benefits and features the D didn't have. The > > DS > >> was quickly followed by the DL, which was even less expensive, had > > fewer > >> features than the DS. The DS and DL were great successes for Pentax. > > > >> Shel > >> > >> > >> > >>> [Original Message] > >>> From: J. C. O'Connell > >>> This is the third time I have posted my thery on this. > >>> I think that Pentax's first DSLR (*istD) was trying > >>> To be the cheapest possible model they could hit the > >>> DSLR scene with. In that case, it's a BOTTOM OF THE LINE > >>> Model > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
The Digital Rebel was indeed on the market when the *istD shipped. It was announced in August and shipped in late spetember IIRC. And everything about the Digital Rebel was lower-spec than the *istD, escept the flash sync. The Digital Rebel is a cheap plastic camera with a tiny wee pentamirror finder, slow AF, slow to turn on (About 3x as slow as the *istD), with a crippled flash subsystem, limited to ISO1600 and a single-wheel interface. It's roughly comparable to the *istDL, except the DL has a superior finder and superior build quality. The only thing comparable between the Digital Rebel and the *istD is image quality, teh Rebel's was as good as any other 6MP body. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Was the digtal rebel on the market when the istD > Came out and what was lower about it other than > Price? > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:51 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD shipped > > in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid > 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). > > The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and > performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due to > > a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when it > > was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro > bodies (Which none of them were). > > -Adam > > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER >> Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD >> Came out. Pentax >> Started cheap and at the bottom and worked >> Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> Nope. >> >> It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D > offered >> only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 > were >> lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the > *istD's >> introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in >> production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be >> better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately the > >> same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as >> well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original > rebel >> is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 > Pro >> can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier > technology) >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to >>> All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market >>> At the time. Just because they later made even >>> Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" >>> The bottom just got lower which was weird. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Shel Belinkoff >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >>> >>> You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, >> nor >>> did >>> it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible > model >>> they >>> could ..." After the D came the DS, which was substantially less >>> expensive >>> even though it had some benefits and features the D didn't have. The >> DS >>> was quickly followed by the DL, which was even less expensive, had >> fewer >>> features than the DS. The DS and DL were great successes for Pentax. >>> Shel >>> >>> >>> [Original Message] From: J. C. O'Connell This is the third time I have posted my thery on this. I think that Pentax's first DSLR (*istD) was trying To be the cheapest possible model they could hit the DSLR scene with. In that case, it's a BOTTOM OF THE LINE Model >>> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Then what you call these DSLRs that don't support > Pentax K mount lenses fully, "OUTDATED the minute > They are released" ? Duh. The lenses are outdated, not the cameras. They can't take advantage of the camera's capabilities. You really are stupid if you think otherwise. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > At least I don't contradict myself, that's the worst > Possible thing to do in a so called discussion > Or debate. BAAAHHAHAHAAA. You are delirious. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Sounds like a case of poor execution and possibly not knowing the customer. Steering feel is very subjective. I personally like some road feel in my steering, some people don't care. Done right, electric steering came have road feel built in. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: The JCO survey There is a difference here, the user, in this case the driver never noticed the change. On the other hand Saturn which used to have one of the best variable assist hydraulic power steering systems by all accounts, and I know how good it was on the SC2, I own one. Seems to have replaced this with an electrical system, which is light as a feather with no road feed back as all as far as I can tell. It was done primarily for cost savings. From a drivers point of view it's absolutely horrible. I wonder how much money they've saved? I wonder how many sales they've lost because of it. GM is in serious trouble right now, they can't afford to lose those sales. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Previously written by Shel - > > > >>I knew a > number of people in the automotive business many years back, >>and >>they'd >>watch every penny, literally. One cent spread over the cost of more than a >>million units adds up quickly enough. Listening to these guys discuss >>costs was an amazing experience. One conversation centered about spacing >>bolt holes on a panel to see if they could get by with four instead of >>five >>bolts. Not only did they consider the cost of the additional bolt (which >>seemed trivial until one multiplied by the estimated number of units >>needed), but they factored in the time to install that one bolt during >>manufacture, and the cost of adding the fifth hole. >> >> > >To which I'll add - >Shel I was a design engineer (also held most other engineering >positions -development, durability etc.) at one of the Big 3 for many >years. >I can vouch for what you've stated. >During my design career, I did work on the F-series of trucks, mainly in >the >steering/suspension & brake systems area - with volumes in the millions - a >penny saved was a serious cost save on those kinds of volumes. We also >figured other issues into the cost save equations - like complexity - if we >could eliminate a part from the assembly plant it was equated into a cost >savings due to the lack of handling, storage, procuring etc. Process >assembly engineers also considered the cost savings of having >minimizing/reducing assembly costs. > >Kenneth Waller > >- Original Message - >From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > > >>Yes, I understand that, but I wonder of JCO grasps the concept. I knew a >>number of people in the automotive business many years back, and they'd >>watch every penny, literally. One cent spread over the cost of more than a >>million units adds up quickly enough. Listening to these guys discuss >>costs was an amazing experience. One conversation centered about spacing >>bolt holes on a panel to see if they could get by with four instead of >>five >>bolts. Not only did they consider the cost of the additional bolt (which >>seemed trivial until one multiplied by the estimated number of units >>needed), but they factored in the time to install that one bolt during >>manufacture, and the cost of adding the fifth hole. >> >>John Celio pointed out that the mechanism is more complicated than some >>may >>realize, and while the actual cost of parts may be trivial, the cost of >>the >>steps needed to include those parts also must be included, as you say. >>Plus there's the time involved, and the possibility that there may be more >>rejected items, and inventory and storage/shipping costs. The truth is, >>we >>_don't_ know the true cost of including the item on contemporary DSLR >>camera bodies. We're just not privy to that information. >> >>I think JCO, with his continued harping on the cost being $5.00 is just >>blowing smoke. It's a number he pulled from the air, based on some >>abstract calculation that he came up with. For all we know, including the >>aperture simulator on contemporary cameras, especially after the design >>has >>been set to not include the item, may cost more than the inclusion of >>shake >>reduction. Are you listening, John. There's a lot more to the true cost >>of an item than the small cost of materials. And just because the >>peripheral costs may not have been very great on K-bodied cameras, those >>numbers may be completely different for the DSLR. >> >>BTW, Leica found out about the cost of the need for precision manual >>assembly, and their newer cameras were designed to eliminate as much of >>that type of work as possible. >> >>Shel >> >> >> >> >> >>>[Original Message] >>>From: Pål Jensen >>> >>> >> >> >>>- Original Message - >>> >>> How do you know the part in question costs $5.00? Does the $5.00 reflect only the cost of materials, or does it inclu
RE: The JCO survey
At least I don't contradict myself, that's the worst Possible thing to do in a so called discussion Or debate. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Stenquist Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:47 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey You responses are so demeaning and insipid that they brand you as a complete asshole for however long you remain a member of this list. JCO, your are dead meat as far as most of us are concerned. Paul On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:16 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of > Keith McGuinness > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Shel Belinkoff wrote: >> It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, and > get >> pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, > you're >> so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of >> doing >> things, you can't understand that. > > Of course! > > And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the > various lenses. > > His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the > loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. > > THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. > > Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the > point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get > the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end > of that argument. > > Keith McG > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I may like, or even prefer, filet mignon, but it's of no consequence, and it can even be just as - or at times even more - enjoyable to eat a cheeseburger. Does this make sense to you. So, while I enjoy, and may even prefer using more automated lenses, I can still enjoy using the older lenses. I'll say no more on this subject. BTW, I can't be illogical, Jim, I'm part Vulcan. Shel > [Original Message] > From: J. C. O'Connell > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I have given this more thought and I know why I MUCH Rather prefer apeture priorty over shutter priority. In either mode you are essentially choosing both The shutter speed and f-stop combination so that's Not really the issue. Its what is being done automatically For you that's the issue. With aperture priority The shutter speed is automatic and with shutter priority The aperture setting is automatic. BUT, and it's a big BUT, its much harder to manually set shutter speeds via the Shutter dial on top of the body than it is to manually set aperture Settings via the aperture ring (Both cases with your Eye to the finder). Hence I would much rather have the Camera do whats hardest for me automatically ( set the shutter speeds) than Do whats easier for me( set fstops ). That's the jist of it. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:46 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey - Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Aperture preffered was always more > Popular than shutter preferred, probably > Because it controls DOF better than > Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs > Had it while few offered shutter priority. > Can you name a single camera that only > Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition > To aperture priority) Trick question since by your wording you exclude cameras that have manual mode in addition to auto. You don't get to do that. Aperture preferred was technically easier to do, which was why it was done. It was easier at the time to control the shutter electronically than it was to stop down the lens mechanically. More pictures are compromised by slow shutter speeds than too little or too much depth of field, so you cannot make a case that depth of field control is more critical than blurry pictures from slow shutter speeds. So a few cameras that offered shutter preferred but not aperture preferred automatic: Note that they all offered manual exposure control as well, they were not crippled meter cameras like the Pentax MV and it's ilk, or the Nikon EM, or Canon T-50. The Mamiya/Sekor Auto XTL had shutter preferred auto, as did the Canon AE-1 (arguably the most popular SLR of it's day), as well as the earlier EX EE and EX Auto The Nikon F2s was able to be adapted to shutter preferred automatic. With the Canon F1, if you bought a particular viewfinder, then you got aperture preferred auto, if you bought a motor drive, you got shutter preferred auto, so it was possible to have an F1 with shutter preferred auto but not aperture preferred auto. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "David Savage" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > Most people grow out of that sort of behaviour. > Remember when John said he came after the K/M lenses? Maybe he meant he was born later. I suspect much later, at least a decade. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Almost Abandoned
Very nice Peter. I like the saturated colours. Dave On 10/22/06, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This was going to be by PUG entry this month but I had to go out last > night and didn't get in till after midnight, and forgot all about it > anyway. so here it is: > > http://www.mindspring.com/~morephotos/PESO_--_almostabandoned.html > > No technical info: Just a Pentax Camera and Lens > > Comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. > > --Albert Einstein > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Then what you call these DSLRs that don't support Pentax K mount lenses fully, "OUTDATED the minute They are released" ? jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are > Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "P. J. Alling" > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > >> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >> retentives >> on this list, that is. > > It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on modern > > cameras. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: The JCO survey >I was shocked at the build feel of the D 80 Nikon. Piece of shit. Can't be, Pentax is the crappy ones, not Nikon. HAR William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Most people grow out of that sort of behaviour. Dave On 10/22/06, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dave, > > It's his way of dealing with being proven wrong. > > -Adam > > > David Savage wrote: > > John, do you talk to people like this face to face? > > > > The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so > > much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. > > > > Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just childish. > > > > Dave > > > > On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > >> Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > >> Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > >> Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > >> To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > >> Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > >> Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. > >> jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
Was the digtal rebel on the market when the istD Came out and what was lower about it other than Price? jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:51 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD shipped in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due to a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when it was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro bodies (Which none of them were). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER > Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD > Came out. Pentax > Started cheap and at the bottom and worked > Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Nope. > > It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D offered > > only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 were > > lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the *istD's > > introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in > production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be > better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately the > same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as > well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original rebel > > is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 Pro > can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier technology) > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to >> All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market >> At the time. Just because they later made even >> Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" >> The bottom just got lower which was weird. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Shel Belinkoff >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >> >> You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, > nor >> did >> it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible model >> they >> could ..." After the D came the DS, which was substantially less >> expensive >> even though it had some benefits and features the D didn't have. The > DS >> was quickly followed by the DL, which was even less expensive, had > fewer >> features than the DS. The DS and DL were great successes for Pentax. > >> Shel >> >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: J. C. O'Connell >>> This is the third time I have posted my thery on this. >>> I think that Pentax's first DSLR (*istD) was trying >>> To be the cheapest possible model they could hit the >>> DSLR scene with. In that case, it's a BOTTOM OF THE LINE >>> Model >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera > Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's > Fault, not the lenses fault. It's not about fault, its about capabilities. K/M lenses aren't on the map anymore. There is too much that they won't do, vs too little that they will do. John, you need to get over it. K/M is a relic of the film era. Pentax hasn't put the capability onto a DSLR, and they aren't likely to put it on anytime in the future. It doesn't matter how often you trot out your one argument in favour of it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "Adam Maas" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > Dave, > > It's his way of dealing with being proven wrong. Stereotypical Irish drunk. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > But you'd be going against the numbers. There's a lot of sentiment > out there to disparage the big three. Much of it is bullshit .Most > notably in trucks. And seized on bmy Canadian buyers, who have long > felt hostage to the US makers. But that's okay. Time will even the > playing field. There is still the 800 pound Gorilla in the room. Paul, we probably make more cars here than are made in Detroit. We don't feel hostage to the big three, though we do feel nervous about the autopact, given recent events surrounding trade agreements. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" < Subject: RE: The JCO survey >I meant SLR cameras. Are you > Sure about the AE-1? I didn't > Think that the FD lenses had > Aperture control via the body > Available. You should do your research before asking questions that will make you look like a total loser when answered. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO -- Almost Abandoned
Nice capture. I like the simplicity. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: PESO -- Almost Abandoned > This was going to be by PUG entry this month but I had to go out last > night and didn't get in till after midnight, and forgot all about it > anyway. so here it is: > > http://www.mindspring.com/~morephotos/PESO_--_almostabandoned.html > > No technical info: Just a Pentax Camera and Lens > > Comments are welcome but may be totally ignored. > > -- > Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. > > --Albert Einstein > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Of course, that observation is utterly irrelevant to the point of why K/M lenses are outdated. They don't support full lens/body communication, since they lack the firmware and digital communication contacts. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera > Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's > Fault, not the lenses fault. > jco > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. > Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are >> Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> William Robb >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "P. J. Alling" >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >>> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >>> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >>> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >>> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >>> retentives >>> on this list, that is. >> It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on > modern >> cameras. >> >> William Robb >> >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Dave, It's his way of dealing with being proven wrong. -Adam David Savage wrote: > John, do you talk to people like this face to face? > > The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so > much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. > > Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just childish. > > Dave > > On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission >> Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses >> Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its >> Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important >> To have the K/M automation features removed. If he >> Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that >> Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> Keith McGuinness >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> Shel Belinkoff wrote: >>> It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, and >> get >>> pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, >> you're >>> so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of doing >>> things, you can't understand that. >> Of course! >> >> And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the >> various lenses. >> >> His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the >> loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. >> >> THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. >> >> Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the >> point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get >> the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end >> of that argument. >> >> Keith McG > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO - Waiting
> Boris - I like this a lot more than the one where she is making the > chocolate - but both are lovely - This one is particularly striking - > what a face! > > > It has been a while since I've been able to grab glimpses of PESOs > I'm glad I got to see this one. > > ann > On 10/20/06, Boris Liberman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=15453&full=1 > > > > Once the chocolate was brought we all had a blast ;-). > > > > Well, I am continuing experiments with low light photography. > > > > Your honest and brutal comments are sought after. > > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO - the aperture simulator has left the building
ROTFL. Excellent shot. Dave On 10/22/06, DagT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Office friendly picture .-) > > http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_bilde.cgi?id=266137 > > DagT > http://dag.foto.no > > Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side. > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
I was shocked at the build feel of the D 80 Nikon. Piece of shit. Paul On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:06 PM, William Robb wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Adam Maas" > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > >> Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD >> shipped >> in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid >> 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). >> >> The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and >> performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due >> to >> a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when >> it >> was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro >> bodies (Which none of them were). > > The istD also has a much nicer build feel to it. > For some people, this is important. > > William Robb > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Two of those are SLR's. And the AE-1 did shutter priority and manual only. The AE-1 Program added Program mode. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > I meant SLR cameras. Are you > Sure about the AE-1? I didn't > Think that the FD lenses had > Aperture control via the body > Available. > joc > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:44 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Canon AE-1. Nikon F2 with the Aperture Control unit added, Any Canonet > with AE. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> Aperture preffered was always more >> Popular than shutter preferred, probably >> Because it controls DOF better than >> Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs >> Had it while few offered shutter priority. >> Can you name a single camera that only >> Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition >> To aperture priority) >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> William Robb >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:14 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: The JCO survey >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "J. C. O'Connell" >> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >> >> >>> I am sorry, but this is a really, really, bad argument. On one hand > you >>> Are saying you enjoy the "much more enjoyable" automation of "A" and >>> later lenses and bodies, But then on the other hand youre saying > that >>> removal of the only Automation the K/M lenses have is "of little >>> consequence". I am sorry But that is a really ridiculous argument. > You >>> cant have it both ways dude. Either the automation options are a good >>> thing are they arent, you are arguing against yourself in totally >>> opposite directions in the same post! >> I happen to like Program mode for when I want to do mindless >> snapshooting and shutter preferred auto when I want an automatic >> exposure mode. >> K/M lenses support none of the above automation functions. >> Aperture preferred auto is something I never use anymore, and > something >> I only used out of desperation when it was the only automatic exposure > >> choice I had. >> >> William Robb >> >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Paul Stenquist wrote: > There is still the 800 pound Gorilla in the room. And it's name is Toyota. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
Been there, done that. Soldier Field, Chicago. December, 1978. The temperature was -4 fahrenheit. The Spotmatic F and SMC Takumar 200/4 performed perfectly. Got one of my best sports action pics ever on the winning touchdown toss of the Chicago city championship. Paul On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Adam Maas wrote: > Try them with gloves in -20C weather. The metal gets slick, the rubber > less so. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> I don't get that one, the SMCT >> Lenses are nowhere near as >> Smooth as any rubber grip lenses. >> Its virtually impossible to slip >> With them. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:03 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars >> >> I prefer a good rubber ring as it's easier to grip with gloves and in >> other adverse conditions. The knurled rings slip, although they do >> feel >> more solid. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: >>> Never really liked this style of knurled control ring much. It is >>> identical to the original Nikkors that my Nikon F came with. I >>> prefer >> >>> the knurled control rings on the Nikkor AI-S lenses, and think >>> they're nicer looking. >>> >>> But this is just a matter of aesthetics and does not influence >>> operation at all. >>> >>> Godfrey >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Jens Bladt wrote: >>> Well, I cant show you the auction I'm bidding on ... Perhaps the later Takumar versions, with a rubber ring, are better - but they don't look so good :-) >>> >> >> > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
John, do you talk to people like this face to face? The anonymity & security of insulting people over the internet is so much easier than doing it face to face. Less risk of a black eye. Being direct is one thing, but unwarranted name calling is just childish. Dave On 10/22/06, J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Keith McGuinness > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, and > get > > pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, > you're > > so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of doing > > things, you can't understand that. > > Of course! > > And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the > various lenses. > > His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the > loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. > > THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. > > Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the > point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get > the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end > of that argument. > > Keith McG -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
But you'd be going against the numbers. There's a lot of sentiment out there to disparage the big three. Much of it is bullshit .Most notably in trucks. And seized on bmy Canadian buyers, who have long felt hostage to the US makers. But that's okay. Time will even the playing field. There is still the 800 pound Gorilla in the room. On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:11 PM, William Robb wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Stenquist" > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > >> Sorry, but you don't have a clue. > > Around my part of the world, trucks are a big part of the landscape. > More trucks per capita or some such in Saskatchewan. > Let me tell you, Nissan and Toyota are doing a number on the Big 3 > around here. > So far, my Titan has been a very satisfactory truck. I'd buy another > before I looked at a Fordodgrolet. > > William Robb > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT
No, I didn't. in fact I never said that (As postings I've reposted indicate, I said that I did it often when shooting with M42 bodies, but of course you can't admit that you're wrong even when it's proven, like this case). I don't know why you're now referring to me in the 3rd person in repsonse to my own post. Maybe just another demonstration of your copious english skills. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > No, he meant "ALL THE TIME" literally > And then went on to tell me a BS > Story why when I specifically asked > Him WHY WHY WHY he did it **ALL** the time? > He didn't say most or some of, he said ALL > The time. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:58 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT > > No, aparently you are unfamiliar with the general usage of the phrase > 'all the time', which means 'on a regular basis'. > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> See , you changed your story. You initially stated >> You shot stopped down ALL THE TIME which was the >> Very reason I pressed on the matter because it was >> Senseless way to opertate. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Adam Maas >> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:54 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >> >> Except, based on the caveats I gave (Close to wide open, in good > light), >> your arguments are incorrect. >> >> Your arguments are only correct for small apertures and low light. IN >> which case, I focus wide open. And I rarely do the former, ant > typically >> use my open-aperture only gear for the latter. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> It is NOT faster to focus stopped down, the wider DOF and dimmer > image >>> Makes it HARDER not easier to focus accurately. Why >>> Do you think auto aperture cameras and lenses were developed >>> Way back in the 50's? Because its easier and faster way >>> To work. I know because I have been using those cameras >>> For years and years too. Less DOF means easier focus. Period. >>> I am not arguing how he works, I am arguing the REASON >>> He gave. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >> Of >>> Shel Belinkoff >>> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:56 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: RE: K1D aperture simulator, part Three (III)- NOT >>> >>> You're just making a fool of yourself. What hubris to tell someone >> how >>> they choose to photograph or use their gear is wrong. >>> >>> Let me tell you something ... I don't know how old you are or how > long >>> you've been photographing, but I'm willing to wager you're not as old >> as >>> I >>> and that you've not been photographing as long either. When I shot >> with >>> Spotties back in the late sixties, I'd often shoot with the lens >> stopped >>> down, and depending on the lens, light, and scene, I'd shoot @ 5.6 or >>> 8.0. >>> I knew EXACTLY what I was doing. Shooting that way could be fast and >>> accurate. With the better finders of today - brighter and more >>> contrasty - >>> it's even easier to shoot in that manner. >>> >>> Anyway, YOU don't have to see it. It's what Adam sees that matters. >>> >>> To call someone you don't know stupid and a liar here in a public >> forum >>> shows more about you and your character than you probably want us to >>> know. >>> >>> Shel >>> >>> >>> [Original Message] From: J. C. O'Connell See my last post, your reason for doing so is flawed And there are other reasons why its worse too. jco -Original Message- Adam Maas John, You Ignorant Slut, It's quicker and I can see what's in focus at all times. Simple as >>> that. Just because you don't, doesn't mean I can't. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > When the thread title is stupid I am going to comment on it. > Secondly why havent you told us WHY WHY WHY you shoot with > M42 auto-aperture lenses and bodies stopped down all the time? > I don't believe it, either your stupid for doing so or your > A liar for saying so unless you have some good explanation > For doing so which I simply cant imagine as I am a LONG TIME > User of M42 bodies and lenses and that makes no sense whatsoever > To me at this point. I'd love to hear your reason for doing so. > Maybe there is something I am missing but I cant see it. >>> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
Yep, they won't stop working, I'll give them that. But rubber doesn't lose grippiness. -Adam Paul Stenquist wrote: > Been there, done that. Soldier Field, Chicago. December, 1978. The > temperature was -4 fahrenheit. The Spotmatic F and SMC Takumar 200/4 > performed perfectly. Got one of my best sports action pics ever on > the winning touchdown toss of the Chicago city championship. > Paul > On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Adam Maas wrote: > >> Try them with gloves in -20C weather. The metal gets slick, the rubber >> less so. >> >> -Adam >> >> >> J. C. O'Connell wrote: >>> I don't get that one, the SMCT >>> Lenses are nowhere near as >>> Smooth as any rubber grip lenses. >>> Its virtually impossible to slip >>> With them. >>> jco >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of >>> Adam Maas >>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:03 PM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars >>> >>> I prefer a good rubber ring as it's easier to grip with gloves and in >>> other adverse conditions. The knurled rings slip, although they do >>> feel >>> more solid. >>> >>> -Adam >>> >>> >>> Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Never really liked this style of knurled control ring much. It is identical to the original Nikkors that my Nikon F came with. I prefer the knurled control rings on the Nikkor AI-S lenses, and think they're nicer looking. But this is just a matter of aesthetics and does not influence operation at all. Godfrey On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Jens Bladt wrote: > Well, I cant show you the auction I'm bidding on ... > Perhaps the later Takumar versions, with a rubber ring, are better > - but > they don't look so good :-) >>> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
I meant SLR cameras. Are you Sure about the AE-1? I didn't Think that the FD lenses had Aperture control via the body Available. joc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:44 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey Canon AE-1. Nikon F2 with the Aperture Control unit added, Any Canonet with AE. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Aperture preffered was always more > Popular than shutter preferred, probably > Because it controls DOF better than > Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs > Had it while few offered shutter priority. > Can you name a single camera that only > Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition > To aperture priority) > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:14 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> I am sorry, but this is a really, really, bad argument. On one hand you >> Are saying you enjoy the "much more enjoyable" automation of "A" and >> later lenses and bodies, But then on the other hand youre saying that >> removal of the only Automation the K/M lenses have is "of little >> consequence". I am sorry But that is a really ridiculous argument. You >> cant have it both ways dude. Either the automation options are a good >> thing are they arent, you are arguing against yourself in totally >> opposite directions in the same post! > > I happen to like Program mode for when I want to do mindless > snapshooting and shutter preferred auto when I want an automatic > exposure mode. > K/M lenses support none of the above automation functions. > Aperture preferred auto is something I never use anymore, and something > I only used out of desperation when it was the only automatic exposure > choice I had. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The JCO survey
The K/M lenses have automation features the new camera Is not exploiting. That's the DSLR body's Fault, not the lenses fault. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:45 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The JCO survey If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are > Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "P. J. Alling" > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > >> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >> retentives >> on this list, that is. > > It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on modern > > cameras. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > Sorry, but you don't have a clue. Around my part of the world, trucks are a big part of the landscape. More trucks per capita or some such in Saskatchewan. Let me tell you, Nissan and Toyota are doing a number on the Big 3 around here. So far, my Titan has been a very satisfactory truck. I'd buy another before I looked at a Fordodgrolet. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "Adam Maas" Subject: Re: The JCO survey > Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD > shipped > in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid > 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). > > The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and > performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due > to > a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when > it > was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro > bodies (Which none of them were). The istD also has a much nicer build feel to it. For some people, this is important. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Not compared to ANY other DSLRS > On the market by other companies. > Pentaxs entire line is worse than > Everybody elses. Adam straightened you out on this already. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey >I applaud Canon because they have a much > Better SLR/DSLR system than Pentax, not > Becaue they had to drop FD to do it. They didn't have to drop FD. You fail to understand the signifigance that LENSES not bodies last forever practically and long term Support of the lenses is of utmost importance. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars
Try them with gloves in -20C weather. The metal gets slick, the rubber less so. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > I don't get that one, the SMCT > Lenses are nowhere near as > Smooth as any rubber grip lenses. > Its virtually impossible to slip > With them. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:03 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Spotmatic F and Super Takumars > > I prefer a good rubber ring as it's easier to grip with gloves and in > other adverse conditions. The knurled rings slip, although they do feel > more solid. > > -Adam > > > Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: >> Never really liked this style of knurled control ring much. It is >> identical to the original Nikkors that my Nikon F came with. I prefer > >> the knurled control rings on the Nikkor AI-S lenses, and think >> they're nicer looking. >> >> But this is just a matter of aesthetics and does not influence >> operation at all. >> >> Godfrey >> >> On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Jens Bladt wrote: >> >>> Well, I cant show you the auction I'm bidding on ... >>> Perhaps the later Takumar versions, with a rubber ring, are better >>> - but >>> they don't look so good :-) >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Well canon isnt leice is it and someone stated > Pentax had the "best in business" older lens > Support. They don't. They do for SLR cameras. I expect that was what the person meant. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are > Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. The lenses are not able to offer too many features that modern camera users want. This makes them outdated. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. Maybe he likes the automation such as auto focus, programmed exposure, shutter preferred auto, and hyper-manual, as well as the different metering modes that newer lenses offer more than he minds pushing a button at some point prior to pushing the shutter button. Because you don't know what you are talking about you keep making a big issue about a very small thing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Moiré
Digital Image Studio wrote: > On 18/10/06, Dario Bonazza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Rob, >> >> So, what do you think of Leica's missing anti-alias filter, replaced by >> anti-moire processing? > > I don't. Is is current or proposed? > Current. Digital Module R and IIRC the M8 have it. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Going off topic. A ship that the company I work for designed was built in China. Our naval architect went up several times during it's construction and he always came back with heaps of photos. One of the funniest/disturbing things I saw in those photos was a shot he took of a Chinese welder, welding a handrail to the deck without a welding mask, eye's closed, totally by feel. You can imagine what we thought of that. Dave On 10/22/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The world has changed now, the Chinese aren't as interested in being > peasant factory slaves nowadays, and well off populations need to > understand that. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
If they weren't outdated, they'd support full body/lens communication. Which they don't. Therefore they are outdated. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > The lenses are not outdated, the new bodies are > Just too stupid to know how to use them properly. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:05 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "P. J. Alling" > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > >> Of course you can meter with them, if you read the manual, can figure >> out the contradicting claims and set the proper function. But just >> mounting the lens and shooting it doesn't work. How many people >> actually wade through the entire manual, except for the anal >> retentives >> on this list, that is. > > It's the anal retentive types that want to use outdated lenses on modern > > cameras. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Canon Digital Rebel (Announced Aug 03, 3 months before the *istD shipped in october 03), Fuji S2 Pro (Wasn't replaced by the S3 Pro until mid 2004). The D70 arrived shortly after the *istD (Jan 04). The *istD was comparable to the D100 and 10D in specifications and performance (Actually the 10D was a bit better than the other two due to a higher framerate and larger buffer), which were current models when it was introduced. All 3 were mid-range bodies getting sold as semi-pro bodies (Which none of them were). -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Name one DSLR on the market that was LOWER > Specificed and not discontiuned when *istD > Came out. Pentax > Started cheap and at the bottom and worked > Their way DOWN ( until the K100D and K10D). > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Adam Maas > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:20 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Nope. > > It was almost identical to the Nikon D100, and the Canon EOS 10D offered > > only a larger buffer over the D100 and *istD. The Canon D60 and D30 were > > lower-end models, as was the Nikon D70 that shortly followed the *istD's > > introduction. And at the time it was the best-specified camera in > production at Pentax (The MZ-S, which is the only recent body to be > better-specified than the *istD, ended production at approximately the > same time). The Canon Digital Rebel was introduced about that time as > well, and was far less camera than the *istD (In fact the original rebel > > is arguably the lowest-end DSLR ever made, only the earlier Fuji S1 Pro > can give it a run (the Fuji is less capable, but far earlier technology) > > -Adam > > > J. C. O'Connell wrote: >> The *istD WAS a bottom line model compared to >> All other makes and models of DSLRS on the market >> At the time. Just because they later made even >> Lower specified models doesn't make it "better" >> The bottom just got lower which was weird. >> jco >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of >> Shel Belinkoff >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:54 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: RE: The JCO survey >> >> You haven't a clue. The istD was _not_ a bottom of the line model, > nor >> did >> it seem that Pentax was trying to put out "the cheapest possible model >> they >> could ..." After the D came the DS, which was substantially less >> expensive >> even though it had some benefits and features the D didn't have. The > DS >> was quickly followed by the DL, which was even less expensive, had > fewer >> features than the DS. The DS and DL were great successes for Pentax. > >> Shel >> >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: J. C. O'Connell >>> This is the third time I have posted my thery on this. >>> I think that Pentax's first DSLR (*istD) was trying >>> To be the cheapest possible model they could hit the >>> DSLR scene with. In that case, it's a BOTTOM OF THE LINE >>> Model >> >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Sorry, but you don't have a clue. On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:37 PM, keith_w wrote: > Paul Stenquist wrote: >> However Bob Lutz has been working to change that somewhat. And with >> some success. What's more, GM is doing very well on surveys of >> customer satisfaction. That ain't all bad. > > So you say. > >> The Europeans, on the >> other hand, are in the toilet. Their build quality is abysmal. Only >> the Japanese, and really only Toyota and Honda, are giving the US >> carmakers trouble. Make new deals with the unions on health care and >> retirement, and Detroit will be right back on top. > > That's a ludicrous statement. Health care and retirement contracts > don't > build cars. Get realistic! > Detroit won't be "back on top" for a very long time. > They have no idea of how to please and keep a customer. > >> That's a prediction. Remember where you read it first. >> paul > > Oh, I will. > > Long after I buy my Honda or Toyota. The 3rd or fourth one, that is. > I'm long over my buying of GM products. > Not again in MY lifetime! > > keith whaley > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
You responses are so demeaning and insipid that they brand you as a complete asshole for however long you remain a member of this list. JCO, your are dead meat as far as most of us are concerned. Paul On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:16 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Not so quick you big dummy. He, by his own admission > Said he really liked the automation his newer lenses > Provide. Well, well, well, if he likes automation, its > Pretty stupid to say its of no consequence or important > To have the K/M automation features removed. If he > Doesn't care about the very things he says he likes alot, that > Makes him QUITE illogical by any standards. > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of > Keith McGuinness > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:26 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > Shel Belinkoff wrote: >> It's not an either/or proposition. I can shoot any way I please, and > get >> pleasure of varying degrees from whatever my choice is. Of course, > you're >> so blinded by what you perceive as being the one and only way of >> doing >> things, you can't understand that. > > Of course! > > And I agreed with Shel's original post on how he shoots with the > various lenses. > > His point was, simply, that because of the way he shoots, the > loss of the aperture thingy is of little consequence. > > THAT argument is simple and perfectly logical. > > Suggesting that the way the he shoots is illogical is beside the > point. He can use his camera and lenses any way he likes to get > the pictures he wants. If it works for him, then that's the end > of that argument. > > Keith McG > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
- Original Message - From: "J. C. O'Connell" Subject: RE: The JCO survey > Aperture preffered was always more > Popular than shutter preferred, probably > Because it controls DOF better than > Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs > Had it while few offered shutter priority. > Can you name a single camera that only > Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition > To aperture priority) Trick question since by your wording you exclude cameras that have manual mode in addition to auto. You don't get to do that. Aperture preferred was technically easier to do, which was why it was done. It was easier at the time to control the shutter electronically than it was to stop down the lens mechanically. More pictures are compromised by slow shutter speeds than too little or too much depth of field, so you cannot make a case that depth of field control is more critical than blurry pictures from slow shutter speeds. So a few cameras that offered shutter preferred but not aperture preferred automatic: Note that they all offered manual exposure control as well, they were not crippled meter cameras like the Pentax MV and it's ilk, or the Nikon EM, or Canon T-50. The Mamiya/Sekor Auto XTL had shutter preferred auto, as did the Canon AE-1 (arguably the most popular SLR of it's day), as well as the earlier EX EE and EX Auto The Nikon F2s was able to be adapted to shutter preferred automatic. With the Canon F1, if you bought a particular viewfinder, then you got aperture preferred auto, if you bought a motor drive, you got shutter preferred auto, so it was possible to have an F1 with shutter preferred auto but not aperture preferred auto. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The JCO survey
Canon AE-1. Nikon F2 with the Aperture Control unit added, Any Canonet with AE. -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > Aperture preffered was always more > Popular than shutter preferred, probably > Because it controls DOF better than > Shutter preffered does. Many many SLRs > Had it while few offered shutter priority. > Can you name a single camera that only > Had shutter priority? ( not just an addition > To aperture priority) > jco > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > William Robb > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:14 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: The JCO survey > > > - Original Message - > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: The JCO survey > > >> I am sorry, but this is a really, really, bad argument. On one hand you >> Are saying you enjoy the "much more enjoyable" automation of "A" and >> later lenses and bodies, But then on the other hand youre saying that >> removal of the only Automation the K/M lenses have is "of little >> consequence". I am sorry But that is a really ridiculous argument. You >> cant have it both ways dude. Either the automation options are a good >> thing are they arent, you are arguing against yourself in totally >> opposite directions in the same post! > > I happen to like Program mode for when I want to do mindless > snapshooting and shutter preferred auto when I want an automatic > exposure mode. > K/M lenses support none of the above automation functions. > Aperture preferred auto is something I never use anymore, and something > I only used out of desperation when it was the only automatic exposure > choice I had. > > William Robb > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
