Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 9/11/2009 11:20:50 A.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
d...@alphoto.com writes:
John Sessoms  wrote:

> This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still  don't 
> understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.
>  
> Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?
> 
>  Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?
> 
> For reference, I  have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
> can look at it  while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:
> 
> K10D
>  *ist-D
> PZ-1P
> LX
> Super Program
> K1000
>  Auto-110 Super



careful what you wish for,  John. The flames of Hell  await.

=
Aaag
hh!!!

Marnie<-- Runs and hides.  ;-)

-
We can't solve  problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we 
created them. Albert  Einstein  


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Re: Whats the difference(s) between the 50mm/1.4 F series and FA series lenses?

[P. J. Alling]

I have a couple of F lenses, the build seems to be a bit better than my 
FA lenses.  Some seem to contain a substantial amount of metal.  I don't 
actually have either the FA 50mm f1.4 or the F 50mm f1.4 so I can't say 
that;s the case as far as these lenses are concerned thought most 
reviews mention the FA's plastic construction.


Miserere wrote:

2009/9/10 J.C. O'Connell :
  

Ive noticed lately that the used F50/1.4 lenses are pulling
in high money lately on ebay, even more than the FA version
brand new in some cases. Anybody know what all the differences
are between these two lenses are optically, mechanically,
funcitonally, etc? Maybe its just a collector thingy or
maybe the F version is better in some way?? I have never owned
either one of them.



Doesn't anybody know? I'm curious now  :-)


 --M.


  



--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Whats the difference(s) between the 50mm/1.4 F series and FA series lenses?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Miserere  wrote:
> 2009/9/10 J.C. O'Connell :
>> Ive noticed lately that the used F50/1.4 lenses are pulling
>> in high money lately on ebay, even more than the FA version
>> brand new in some cases. Anybody know what all the differences
>> are between these two lenses are optically, mechanically,
>> funcitonally, etc? Maybe its just a collector thingy or
>> maybe the F version is better in some way?? I have never owned
>> either one of them.
>
> Doesn't anybody know? I'm curious now  :-)

It's not that, it's simply that we all have JCO filtered out.

The difference between the F50/1.4 and the FA50/1.4 are some minor
points of styling, an improved, rubberized focusing ring, and the FA50
embedded chip has the MTF curve information in it, the F50/1.4 does
not. Optically and mechanically they are otherwise identical.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[P. J. Alling]

Actually the camera doesn't need to know the maximum  aperture of the 
lens.  It only needs to know the current amount of light entering the 
lens at maximum aperture, and the offset from maximum.  It's a very 
simple system.  No K or M mount lens has any provision for telling the 
camera it's maximum aperture.


Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:17 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
  

This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't understand
what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.



It's not a simulator.

SLR cameras since the early 1960s have what is called an automatic
diaphragm. What this means is that the iris in the lens is held open
for best focusing and framing illumination in the viewfinder. At the
time you release the shutter, the iris is automatically closed down to
the taking aperture set on the lens, the mirror flips up, the exposure
is made, then the mirror and the iris both return to the normal
viewing/focusing mode.

Then came coupled, "through the lens" (TTL) metering in the
middle-late 1960s. Coupled means that adjustments to the exposure time
and aperture setting immediately can be made to match what the meter
is reading as the appropriate amount of exposure for the light in the
scene. The older Pentax thread mount auto-diaphram lenses didn't have
any way for the body (and meter) to know what aperture was actually
set on the lens so the original implementation of TTL metering on
Pentax bodies had a switch which mechanically stopped the lens down
and turned on the meter. This meant that the meter would read the
actual amount of light that would fall on the film at the time of
exposure, with the lens stopped down, and of course knew what the
exposure time setting was through the position of the shutter speed
selector. While simple and elegant, this scheme meant some limitations
on metering range and a certain amount of inconvenience to the
photographer since the viewfinder would go dark while metering was
going on. The solution was open-aperture TTL metering.

Open-aperture TTL metering requires more information be exchanged
between body and lens. The body's meter must know both a) the maximum
aperture of the lens and b) the position of the aperture ring in order
to calculate the correct settings based on the light coming through
the lens. This was implemented in the form of a mechanical follow cam
and lever setup on the lens and body (maybe two ... I'm not sure about
the absolute details here) that transferred this information from lens
to body so that the metering system in the body would know what the
light falling on the film *would be* at the time of exposure, when the
auto-iris was stopped down.

This mechanical information passing system ... a follow finger
mechanically driven by the aperture ring and a following finger it
coupled with in the body ... was in place in all bodies and lenses
made from the introduction of the K-mount in the early 1970s until
somewhere in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I don't recall the specifics
of which bodies did what, but the follow cam system started to become
obsolete with the introduction of the A series lenses and on certain
bodies. What happens with those bodies is that the aperture ring is
locked to the A position, which turns on electrical connection to the
body. The body then knows the lens' maximum aperture and the iris is
controlled mechanically by the body moving the iris actuating lever
rather than through the system of dead-stops provided by the aperture
ring position and the auto-iris mechanism.

With the introduction of even more sophisticated lenses with even more
electronic information passing to the body, the in-body follow cam and
in-lens aperture finger were removed. This simplification reduces
manufacturing cost and inventory costs. All the information regards
lens aperture, both wide open and range, is provided to the body via
electronics, the body still regulates the iris by physical movement of
the iris actuating lever directly.

Removing the follow cam system from the body has the side effect of
eliminating information passing from lens to body regards maximum
aperture and aperture ring position for all lenses older than the
A-series. Without this information, lenses prior to the A-series
cannot support open-aperture TTL metering.

  

Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I can
look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:

K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super

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--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and h

Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[P. J. Alling]

No that;s the stop down lever.  The aperture simulator is a resistor and 
pin that transfers the set aperture on a lens to the camera body for 
wide open metering.


Desjardins, Steve wrote:

It was, essentially, a little doohickey inside the body end of the lens mount 
that pressed a tiny pin on the older lenses that would make the lens stop down 
to chosen f stop.  It went away when Pentax ate from the tree of digital 
knowledge, but many still await its return.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John 
Sessoms
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:17 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

From: Scott Loveless
  

On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:


Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
 performance and higher price bracket.


My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.



This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't 
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.


Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:


K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super

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The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: One Exposure

[Miserere]

2009/9/11 Toine :
> Water drops on 1x.com! Must be something special and this one sure is.
> If you think PPG is difficult to get photos published try 1x.com!
> I'm trying every now and then:
>
> http://1x.com/?action=profile&user=4160

Excellent! I particularly liked this one:

http://1x.com/photos/member/4160/24616/


 --M.

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Re: PESO 2009 - 168 - GDG

[ann sanfedele]

I liked that photo a lot, Godders...
... and while I have assiduously avoided the day, by not listening to 
the news or reading it, I did read what you wrote

and liked that, as well - though "liked" isn't quite right.

something kinda odd happened today -- now I feel like sharing that...

Just FYI for those on list who don't know where I live, it is the east 
village in NYC - about a mile as the crow flies
from ground zero... you could see the towers from my living room window 
when they were there.  

I got through that day and the next few by taking photos.  I took the 
two photos in this "frame" the very

day . and this is the link as it appeared in the PUG back in 2001.

 This is the link to that.

http://pug.komkon.org/01nov/lovesave.html

(I set side by side the raggedy ann and andy dolls in the window and the 
side of the store in photoshop)


But here is the odd thing --  My friend's dress shop has my photos for 
sale as greeting cards... and I also
give her  clothes on consignment today she sold a consignment item 
and a card of mine to the same person.


The card was the original 4 x 6 print of the Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls 
that I took exactly 8 years ago today.
There were no notes on the back of the card to reveal that info.  


ann

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


thoughts and photo ...

  http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com/168-beyond-this-point

comments always appreciated. thanks for looking!

Godfrey
--
 a photo blog: http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com




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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Miserere]

2009/9/10 paul stenquist :
> If it was coming this year, there would already be leakage. Plus, there are
> no lenses for full frame. I'll join Cotty for dinner if we see a full frame
> Pentax before 2011.
> Paul

Hey, save me a spot at the table!


 --M.


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Re: Whats the difference(s) between the 50mm/1.4 F series and FA series lenses?

[Miserere]

2009/9/10 J.C. O'Connell :
> Ive noticed lately that the used F50/1.4 lenses are pulling
> in high money lately on ebay, even more than the FA version
> brand new in some cases. Anybody know what all the differences
> are between these two lenses are optically, mechanically,
> funcitonally, etc? Maybe its just a collector thingy or
> maybe the F version is better in some way?? I have never owned
> either one of them.

Doesn't anybody know? I'm curious now  :-)


 --M.


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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Doug Franklin]

Stan Halpin wrote:


BTW, my preferred lens set would be much as others have described:
a. 16-45
b. 12-24
c. 100mm macro
d. 21mm


The last time I was in the Smithsonian was, God help me, over 30 years 
ago.  I'd forgotten just how high up the ceiling and some of the 
exhibits were in the Air and Space museum.  I think I might replace (c) 
and (d) with something like the 50-200, now that I remember those huge 
spaces.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: keywords in LightRoom

[Stan Halpin]

Worrying about spelling "mistakes" makes sense if you are sharing your  
system, if your keywords matter to others (e.g., the buyer at a stock  
agency). As long as it is just for your benefit in organizing,  
consistency is all that matters. If a hoarse is a hoarse is a hoarse  
every time you index or retrieve, why should you care that others  
wouldn't realize your equine intent.
Which would be worse Dave - trying to spell "properly", or trying to  
be consistent in your chosen renditions of words? No kiding - someting  
to thunk abut.


stan

On Sep 11, 2009, at 6:26 PM, David J Brooks wrote:


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Bob W  wrote:


Be careful about spelling mistakes,


You gotta be kiding me.

Dave






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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Stan Halpin]

Evening is a good time for The Wall. Particularly if there is a fog or  
light drizzle.And then walk across the Mall to the much newer, less  
well known and less visited Korean War monument. Then back down the  
Mall to the Lincoln. The night-time perspective on all three is worth  
the loss of some sleep.


BTW, my preferred lens set would be much as others have described:
a. 16-45
b. 12-24
c. 100mm macro
d. 21mm

The 21 is obviously doubly redundant with the two zooms, but if I got  
tired of schlepping a bunch of stuff around, I could be happy inside  
the Smithsonian museums and outside in D.C. with just the 21mm.


And also BTW, don't miss the American Indian Museum. And at least the  
exterior sculpture garden by the Hirschorn (sp?).


stan


On Sep 11, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:


Ken Waller wrote:

You've got to go to the Viet NAm Memorial !


And that begs to be shot close with a wide angle using the  
reflections (take a microfiber cloth just in case) ... I haven't  
been to DC to see the real wall, but I've seen the "traveling wall",  
which is about 1:2 scale, I think.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Adam Maas]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>
> I guess the "what is maximum aperture" information is no longer needed
> if you consider "X amount of light hitting the sensor now, N-stops
> down will hit it at exposure time" and calibrate the positions of the
> levers accordingly ... Nikon later did the same thing with the later
> AI system coupling, if I'm not mistaken.
> --
> Godfrey

That's pretty much the case. Only non-TTL or Matrix metering needs to
know max aperture.

AI actually has maximum aperture communication via the Max Aperture
Indexing Post, but it was rarely used, only the FA and F4 used it for
ambient metering (It enables matrix metering) and the EM and FG use it
for flash.

-- 
M. Adam Maas
http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Adam Maas  wrote:
> One quibble only, the aperture simulator on K mount only communicates
> relative aperture (how far from max aperture the aperture ring is set
> to), not the maximum aperture of the lens. It just tells the body how
> far stopped down the lens is. maximum aperture communication is only
> available on A or later lenses and is electric/electronicly
> communicated via the contact pattern of the A contacts and/or the
> digital signal pin.
>
> Nikon's original aperture coupling (the rabbit ears) did communicate
> maximum aperture, but that's a relic of it having been originally
> developed for the non-TTL metering system of the Nikon F's T prism
> which did need to know maximum and relative aperture.

I'll take your word for it. As I said, I'm not entirely clear on the
details of the implementation.

I guess the "what is maximum aperture" information is no longer needed
if you consider "X amount of light hitting the sensor now, N-stops
down will hit it at exposure time" and calibrate the positions of the
levers accordingly ... Nikon later did the same thing with the later
AI system coupling, if I'm not mistaken.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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PESO 2009 - 168 - GDG

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

thoughts and photo ...

  http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com/168-beyond-this-point

comments always appreciated. thanks for looking!

Godfrey
--
 a photo blog: http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com




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Re: One Exposure

[Tim Bray]

Wow, Toine, those are some damn fine pictures.  -Tim

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Toine  wrote:
> Water drops on 1x.com! Must be something special and this one sure is.
> If you think PPG is difficult to get photos published try 1x.com!
> I'm trying every now and then:
>
> http://1x.com/?action=profile&user=4160
>
>
> 2009/9/10 Larry Colen :
>> A friend just pointed me to a rather cool photo website:
>> http://1x.com/
>>
>> Here's the shot she posted a link to:
>> http://1x.com//photos/macro/25403/
>>
>> --
>> The first step is learning to take great photos,
>> the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
>> Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            
>> http://www.red4est.com/lrc
>>
>>
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>
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Re: keywords in LightRoom

[David J Brooks]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Bob W  wrote:

> Be careful about spelling mistakes,

You gotta be kiding me.

Dave
>
>
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-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Environmental photographer of the year

[Bob W]

I especially like number 5:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/sci_nat__environmental_phot
ographer_of_the_year/html/1.stm

Bob


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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Adam Maas]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:17 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
>> This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't understand
>> what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.
>
> It's not a simulator.
>
> SLR cameras since the early 1960s have what is called an automatic
> diaphragm. What this means is that the iris in the lens is held open
> for best focusing and framing illumination in the viewfinder. At the
> time you release the shutter, the iris is automatically closed down to
> the taking aperture set on the lens, the mirror flips up, the exposure
> is made, then the mirror and the iris both return to the normal
> viewing/focusing mode.
>
> Then came coupled, "through the lens" (TTL) metering in the
> middle-late 1960s. Coupled means that adjustments to the exposure time
> and aperture setting immediately can be made to match what the meter
> is reading as the appropriate amount of exposure for the light in the
> scene. The older Pentax thread mount auto-diaphram lenses didn't have
> any way for the body (and meter) to know what aperture was actually
> set on the lens so the original implementation of TTL metering on
> Pentax bodies had a switch which mechanically stopped the lens down
> and turned on the meter. This meant that the meter would read the
> actual amount of light that would fall on the film at the time of
> exposure, with the lens stopped down, and of course knew what the
> exposure time setting was through the position of the shutter speed
> selector. While simple and elegant, this scheme meant some limitations
> on metering range and a certain amount of inconvenience to the
> photographer since the viewfinder would go dark while metering was
> going on. The solution was open-aperture TTL metering.
>
> Open-aperture TTL metering requires more information be exchanged
> between body and lens. The body's meter must know both a) the maximum
> aperture of the lens and b) the position of the aperture ring in order
> to calculate the correct settings based on the light coming through
> the lens. This was implemented in the form of a mechanical follow cam
> and lever setup on the lens and body (maybe two ... I'm not sure about
> the absolute details here) that transferred this information from lens
> to body so that the metering system in the body would know what the
> light falling on the film *would be* at the time of exposure, when the
> auto-iris was stopped down.
>
> This mechanical information passing system ... a follow finger
> mechanically driven by the aperture ring and a following finger it
> coupled with in the body ... was in place in all bodies and lenses
> made from the introduction of the K-mount in the early 1970s until
> somewhere in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I don't recall the specifics
> of which bodies did what, but the follow cam system started to become
> obsolete with the introduction of the A series lenses and on certain
> bodies. What happens with those bodies is that the aperture ring is
> locked to the A position, which turns on electrical connection to the
> body. The body then knows the lens' maximum aperture and the iris is
> controlled mechanically by the body moving the iris actuating lever
> rather than through the system of dead-stops provided by the aperture
> ring position and the auto-iris mechanism.
>
> With the introduction of even more sophisticated lenses with even more
> electronic information passing to the body, the in-body follow cam and
> in-lens aperture finger were removed. This simplification reduces
> manufacturing cost and inventory costs. All the information regards
> lens aperture, both wide open and range, is provided to the body via
> electronics, the body still regulates the iris by physical movement of
> the iris actuating lever directly.
>
> Removing the follow cam system from the body has the side effect of
> eliminating information passing from lens to body regards maximum
> aperture and aperture ring position for all lenses older than the
> A-series. Without this information, lenses prior to the A-series
> cannot support open-aperture TTL metering.
>
>>
>> Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?
>>
>> Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?
>>
>> For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I can
>> look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:
>>
>> K10D
>> *ist-D
>> PZ-1P
>> LX
>> Super Program
>> K1000
>> Auto-110 Super
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Godfrey
>  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>

One quibble only, the aperture simulator on K mount only communicates
relative aperture (how far from max aperture the aperture ring is set
to), not the maximum aperture of the lens. It just tells the body how
far stopped do

Re: Museum & lens selection

[Doug Franklin]

Ken Waller wrote:

You've got to go to the Viet NAm Memorial !


And that begs to be shot close with a wide angle using the reflections 
(take a microfiber cloth just in case) ... I haven't been to DC to see 
the real wall, but I've seen the "traveling wall", which is about 1:2 
scale, I think.


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DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:17 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't understand
> what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.

It's not a simulator.

SLR cameras since the early 1960s have what is called an automatic
diaphragm. What this means is that the iris in the lens is held open
for best focusing and framing illumination in the viewfinder. At the
time you release the shutter, the iris is automatically closed down to
the taking aperture set on the lens, the mirror flips up, the exposure
is made, then the mirror and the iris both return to the normal
viewing/focusing mode.

Then came coupled, "through the lens" (TTL) metering in the
middle-late 1960s. Coupled means that adjustments to the exposure time
and aperture setting immediately can be made to match what the meter
is reading as the appropriate amount of exposure for the light in the
scene. The older Pentax thread mount auto-diaphram lenses didn't have
any way for the body (and meter) to know what aperture was actually
set on the lens so the original implementation of TTL metering on
Pentax bodies had a switch which mechanically stopped the lens down
and turned on the meter. This meant that the meter would read the
actual amount of light that would fall on the film at the time of
exposure, with the lens stopped down, and of course knew what the
exposure time setting was through the position of the shutter speed
selector. While simple and elegant, this scheme meant some limitations
on metering range and a certain amount of inconvenience to the
photographer since the viewfinder would go dark while metering was
going on. The solution was open-aperture TTL metering.

Open-aperture TTL metering requires more information be exchanged
between body and lens. The body's meter must know both a) the maximum
aperture of the lens and b) the position of the aperture ring in order
to calculate the correct settings based on the light coming through
the lens. This was implemented in the form of a mechanical follow cam
and lever setup on the lens and body (maybe two ... I'm not sure about
the absolute details here) that transferred this information from lens
to body so that the metering system in the body would know what the
light falling on the film *would be* at the time of exposure, when the
auto-iris was stopped down.

This mechanical information passing system ... a follow finger
mechanically driven by the aperture ring and a following finger it
coupled with in the body ... was in place in all bodies and lenses
made from the introduction of the K-mount in the early 1970s until
somewhere in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I don't recall the specifics
of which bodies did what, but the follow cam system started to become
obsolete with the introduction of the A series lenses and on certain
bodies. What happens with those bodies is that the aperture ring is
locked to the A position, which turns on electrical connection to the
body. The body then knows the lens' maximum aperture and the iris is
controlled mechanically by the body moving the iris actuating lever
rather than through the system of dead-stops provided by the aperture
ring position and the auto-iris mechanism.

With the introduction of even more sophisticated lenses with even more
electronic information passing to the body, the in-body follow cam and
in-lens aperture finger were removed. This simplification reduces
manufacturing cost and inventory costs. All the information regards
lens aperture, both wide open and range, is provided to the body via
electronics, the body still regulates the iris by physical movement of
the iris actuating lever directly.

Removing the follow cam system from the body has the side effect of
eliminating information passing from lens to body regards maximum
aperture and aperture ring position for all lenses older than the
A-series. Without this information, lenses prior to the A-series
cannot support open-aperture TTL metering.

>
> Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?
>
> Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?
>
> For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I can
> look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:
>
> K10D
> *ist-D
> PZ-1P
> LX
> Super Program
> K1000
> Auto-110 Super
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: photographing guitars

[Brendan MacRae]

- Original Message 
> From: Cotty 
> To: pentax list 
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:30:07 PM
> Subject: Re: photographing guitars
> 
> On 11/9/09, Brendan MacRae, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >Make sure to pick up on your client's needs, use it as a bridge to
> >convey your intent. Don't get strapped by leaving equipment at home and
> >try to stay in tune with the project. Otherwise this whole thing will be
> >a pain in the neck.
> 
> You're just being an A-hole!
> 

Ahem, I think you meant to say "F-hole," and yes, I was...:-)


  

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Re: photographing guitars

[Cotty]

On 11/9/09, Brendan MacRae, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Make sure to pick up on your client's needs, use it as a bridge to
>convey your intent. Don't get strapped by leaving equipment at home and
>try to stay in tune with the project. Otherwise this whole thing will be
>a pain in the neck.

You're just being an A-hole!

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  Cotty


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Re: spam thread

[Cotty]

On 11/9/09, Madame RD, discombobulated, unleashed:

>HelP ! my mailclient can't stand  the word spam ... so had to retrieve
>your posts from the bin ... rotfl ...
>dominique from paris

I have just the thing.




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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Bob Sullivan]

This particular phrase describes an obsolete feature on old cameras
that is no longer available on new Pentax cameras.  Just mentioning
the feature caused SHOUTING and endless RANTING by a particular
subscriber (JCO).  Since placing him in my kill file, I no longer see
his messages and it doesn't bother me.  The poor soul needs
medication...
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
> On Sep 11, 2009, at 13:38, Desjardins, Steve wrote:
>
>> It was, essentially, a little doohickey inside the body end of the lens
>> mount that pressed a tiny pin on the older lenses that would make the lens
>> stop down to chosen f stop.  It went away when Pentax ate from the tree of
>> digital knowledge, but many still await its return.
>>
>
> bzzt!
>
> It was a lever on the body which would interact with a lever on the lens
> (K-M series automatic lenses) so that the camera body would know: "hey, this
> lens is now stopped down to such-and-such a stop" while allowing the
> aperture to remain all the way open.  The light meter would compensate as if
> there was less light coming in so that you'd know the exposure was set
> correctly.
>
> When the photo is/was taken, the other thingie which has been holding the
> aperture all the way open would drop and the lens would stop down to the set
> value - shutter opens, shutter closes, aperture again pops all the way open.
>
> This ability (to "just know" what aperture the K or M lens is set to) is not
> in the digital SLR bodies.  If you have a "non-A" lens, and you want to
> shoot at something other than wide open, you have to use manual mode and
> "the green button" to physically stop down the lens, take a light reading
> WITH THE APERTURE STOPPED DOWN, and then pop the aperture wide open to let
> you focus, compose, etc.
>
> I may have some specifics wrong, but that is *basically* it.
>
>  -Charles
>
> --
> Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com
> Minneapolis, MN
> http://charles.robinsontwins.org
> http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson
>
>
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Re: photographing guitars

[Brendan MacRae]

Make sure to pick up on your client's needs, use it as a bridge to convey your 
intent. Don't get strapped by leaving equipment at home and try to stay in tune 
with the project. Otherwise this whole thing will be a pain in the neck.



- Original Message 
> From: Cotty 
> To: pentax list 
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:31:28 PM
> Subject: Re: photographing guitars
> 
> 
> 
> >Just don't fret ;-)
> 
> You nut.
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
> 
> 
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> ||=|    http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Museum & lens selection

[gldnbearz]

Oh, yes.  It's on the list.  I forgot to mention it.  Will also swing
by the eternal flame in Arlington.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Ken Waller  wrote:
> You've got to go to the Viet NAm Memorial !
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Bran Everseeking]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:08:55 -0600
Richard D Bush  wrote:

> I will  
> also set the focal length of the lens, times 1.5, and leave the
> motion reduction system in the ON position.

why 1.5?  the lenses are cropped not longer?

-- 
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essential to your own... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy
condition.- Robert Heinlein

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Re: One Exposure

[Toine]

Bob,
Thanks!

2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
> Toine,
> That's a brilliant collection of photos.
> Congratulations to you.
> Regards,  Bob S.
>

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[David J Brooks]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Cotty  wrote:
> On 10/9/09, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>I'll join Cotty for dinner if we
>>see a full frame Pentax before 2011.
>
> BYOH.

And I'll take the photo, with a D1, 2.75 MP camera, that still works.:-)

Dave
>
> ;)
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
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York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Ken Waller]

You've got to go to the Viet NAm Memorial !

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: "gldnbearz" 

Subject: Re: Museum & lens selection


Hi Christian-

We're flying in on the Sunday night red-eye to Dulles, early 9/14 AM
arrival.  Tues tour of the Supreme Court building, Weds tour of the
Capitol building.  Flying out Friday 9/18 early PM.

DH wants to see the Air & Space museum and the Natural History museum.
I want to check out Arlington now that all 3 Kennedys are in one
place.  Of course, as many of the monuments as we can see.

- Pat

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Christian  wrote:
Living in (near) DC and frequenting the museums quite often my suggestion 
is

to bring the wide stuff and leave the long stuff at home.

The Smithsonian Museums are notoriously crowded so you have to get close 
to

the exhibits to photograph them. Bring the 12-24.

For outdoor shots and scenics of the monuments and buildings the wide 
angles

are a great choice. Of course the 50-135 wouldn't hurt either. :-)

What are your plans for the visit?




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spam thread

[Madame RD]

HelP ! my mailclient can't stand  the word spam ... so had to retrieve 
your posts from the bin ... rotfl ...

dominique from paris



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Re: One Exposure

[Bob Sullivan]

Toine,
That's a brilliant collection of photos.
Congratulations to you.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Toine  wrote:
> Water drops on 1x.com! Must be something special and this one sure is.
> If you think PPG is difficult to get photos published try 1x.com!
> I'm trying every now and then:
>
> http://1x.com/?action=profile&user=4160
>
>
> 2009/9/10 Larry Colen :
>> A friend just pointed me to a rather cool photo website:
>> http://1x.com/
>>
>> Here's the shot she posted a link to:
>> http://1x.com//photos/macro/25403/
>>
>> --
>> The first step is learning to take great photos,
>> the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
>> Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            
>> http://www.red4est.com/lrc
>>
>>
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Re: OT: Organic

[Bob Sullivan]

Both of my boys went thru 3 rounds of chemotherapy for testicular
cancer, 9 and 3 years ago.  3 x (one week in the hospital with 24 hour
IV drip, then 2 weeks off to recover blood counts).  They were pretty
well wiped out by the 3rd round and the hospital got better about
infection protection as time progressed.  Staff did things like
posting a warning outside the hospital room about infections and
looking for better hygene (hand washing) from all who entered the
room.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:14 AM, AlunFoto  wrote:
> 2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
>> Again be careful.  MRSA deaths are an old people & nursing home problem,
>> after significant hospital stays and treatment.
>> I expect germs and antibotic are each 100X the typical occurence.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> Fortunately, it's still mostly true that the so-called superbugs are
> only successful at infecting people with already reduced immune
> systems. So they're only "super" in their resistance against common
> ABs, not in infectiousness. It's irony that the environments most
> suited to their propagation is where people go when they do have
> reduced immune systems. Whether of old age, injury or other diseases.
>
> IOW, it's where you would expect such bugs to thrive. It's their habitat.
>
> BTW, it's also a serious problem that their existence can undermine
> people's confidence in the healthcare system. :-(
>
> Jostein
>
>
> --
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> http://alunfoto.blogspot.com
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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Paul Stenquist]

THE APERTURE SIMULATOR IS DEAD, AND IT'S NEVER COMING BACK\\


On Sep 11, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Doug Brewer wrote:


John Sessoms wrote:

This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't  
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.

Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?
Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?
For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as  
examples I can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any  
applies:

K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super




careful what you wish for, John. The flames of Hell await.

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Re: OT: Organic

[Bob Sullivan]

I mean the incidence of germs and infections in the aged nursing
home/hospitalized folks is 100 times normal and the use of antibiotics
on this group is 100 times normal.  Here we have a population that is
cronically ill and generously medicated to try and keep them alive.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:48 AM, eckinator  wrote:
> 2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
>>
>> MRSA deaths are an old people & nursing home problem,
>> after significant hospital stays and treatment.
>
> To a point. As for morbidity/mortality rates, point taken. As for
> infections, please see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphylococcus_aureus
> MRSA seems to be spreading beyond the hospital population from what
> the article says.
>
>> I expect germs and antibotic are each 100X the typical occurence.
>
> Please help, my English is failing me - what do you mean by that?
>
> Thanks
> Ecke
>
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Re: photographing guitars

[Cotty]

>Just don't fret ;-)

You nut.

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Re: photographing guitars

[Paul Sorenson]

Lots of choices, just pick one...and don't let anyone string you along

Desjardins, Steve wrote:

Just don't fret ;-)

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John 
Sessoms
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:28 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: RE: photographing guitars

From: Larry Colen
  
Just got word of a possible paid gig on Monday photographing guitars. 

Anything in particular to watch out for? 


Reflections? Use a polarizer? Try to set up a light tent?

  Larry



Reflections are a big deal. It's like photographing glass. You can 
easily get blown out specular highlights from the finish.


You want a very large light vs. the instrument.

In school we used hot lights reflected off 4'x8' white panels to give a 
soft, even overall light, but you could do strobes the same.


A big light tent should work. Move the lights back so that the whole 
tent illuminates the instrument without hot spots.


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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Richard D Bush]

I believe the second little button on the back of the lenses first  
appeared on Super-Multi-Coated Takumar lenses when they were still M42  
thread mount. This configuration changed nothing when these lenses  
were introduced with the Spotmatic II bodies. The new bit of machinery  
inside the lenses was done in anticipation of a yet to be Pentax that  
would be called the Spotmatic F.


When screwed onto an F type Spotmatic, SMC lenses allowed open  
aperture meter reading for the first time on a Pentax 35mm camera.


Such lenses could still be used on Spotmatics and Spotmatic II bodies,  
but these lenses need be stopped down to run the built in meter by  
turning on the meter switch.


I still use Super Takumar, Super-multi-Coated Takumars and more modern  
K mount Takumar lenses on my digital Pentax camera. I run the camera  
in manual mode and switch the focus to the manual setting. Usually it  
only takes a shot or two to get an acceptable exposure set-up. I will  
also set the focal length of the lens, times 1.5, and leave the motion  
reduction system in the ON position.


Richard Bush

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RE: photographing guitars

[Desjardins, Steve]

Just don't fret ;-)

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John 
Sessoms
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:28 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: RE: photographing guitars

From: Larry Colen
> Just got word of a possible paid gig on Monday photographing guitars. 
> 
> Anything in particular to watch out for? 
> 
> Reflections? Use a polarizer? Try to set up a light tent?
> 
>   Larry

Reflections are a big deal. It's like photographing glass. You can 
easily get blown out specular highlights from the finish.

You want a very large light vs. the instrument.

In school we used hot lights reflected off 4'x8' white panels to give a 
soft, even overall light, but you could do strobes the same.

A big light tent should work. Move the lights back so that the whole 
tent illuminates the instrument without hot spots.

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RE: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Desjardins, Steve]

Wrong doodad.  I'm thinking of the thing on the SP500.  It's been so long . . .

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles 
Robinson
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:55 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

On Sep 11, 2009, at 13:38, Desjardins, Steve wrote:

> It was, essentially, a little doohickey inside the body end of the  
> lens mount that pressed a tiny pin on the older lenses that would  
> make the lens stop down to chosen f stop.  It went away when Pentax  
> ate from the tree of digital knowledge, but many still await its  
> return.
>

bzzt!

It was a lever on the body which would interact with a lever on the  
lens (K-M series automatic lenses) so that the camera body would know:  
"hey, this lens is now stopped down to such-and-such a stop" while  
allowing the aperture to remain all the way open.  The light meter  
would compensate as if there was less light coming in so that you'd  
know the exposure was set correctly.

When the photo is/was taken, the other thingie which has been holding  
the aperture all the way open would drop and the lens would stop down  
to the set value - shutter opens, shutter closes, aperture again pops  
all the way open.

This ability (to "just know" what aperture the K or M lens is set to)  
is not in the digital SLR bodies.  If you have a "non-A" lens, and you  
want to shoot at something other than wide open, you have to use  
manual mode and "the green button" to physically stop down the lens,  
take a light reading WITH THE APERTURE STOPPED DOWN, and then pop the  
aperture wide open to let you focus, compose, etc.

I may have some specifics wrong, but that is *basically* it.

  -Charles

--
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Minneapolis, MN
http://charles.robinsontwins.org
http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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RE: keywords in LightRoom

[Bob W]

[...]

> In v2, you can create a text file with a certain indented 
> format, that will import to LR as a hierarchy. It works like this:
> 
[...]
> 

That's very interesting - I didn't know you could do that.

> It gets the synonyms right too. :-) But if you create a new 
> branch like "Hoofed animals" and move "Horses" to this 
> branch, LR will not understand. Then you end up with Horses 
> in two places:
> 
> [Animals]
> 
>  Livestock
>   Pigs
> {Swines}
>   Horses
> {Equines}
>   Cattle
> {Cows}
> {Bulls}
>   Hoofed animals
>Horses
> {Equines}
> 
> My point with all this is that inconcistencies can develop, 
> and I sort of imagined that many people must have seen this 
> already and developed a sort of best practice.

I don't think this is necessarily a mistake in principle, and I don't think
your example is a mistake at all. The problem lies in the way people
(mis)use or misunderstand hierarchies. I recommend David Lorge Parnas's
essay "On a 'buzzword': hierarchical structure".

Livestock and Hoofed animals are intersecting sets - some animals genuinely
belong in both. A hierarchy which includes Hoofed animals sounds to me as
though it is vaguely Linnaean - hooves indicating common descent - whereas a
hierarchy which includes Livestock suggests that it is based on the way
humans make use of the animals. It certainly doesn't indicate common
descent. So in the example given, the error is yours for expecting LR to
recognise this.

The lesson to be learnt is that you must think carefully about whether these
are genuine hierarchies, or the same type of hierarchy. Try to make your
hierarchies represent the real world. I try to think in terms of sets and
subsets - set theory is the secret of the universe - and recognise the
distinction between hierarchies and other types of relation.

By some peculiar coincidence, I was thinking about animals' feet during some
idle moments at work this afternoon. My office contains people with a number
of different eating taboos. People who don't eat beef, people who don't eat
pork, others who don't eat horse, rat, badger or dog. The only mammals that
everyone seems to eat are sheep, goats and deer of one sort or another, and
I think they all have the same sort of feet, don't they, which differ from
the controversial animals. They're all quite closely related aren't they? Or
am I just wasting company time thinking like this? Why don't people eat
badgers?

[...]


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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[mike wilson]

John Sessoms wrote:


From: Scott Loveless


On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:


>
> Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
>  performance and higher price bracket.



My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.



This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't 
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.


Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:


K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super


It's a mechanical system for setting the aperture so that when you set 
the number on the aperture ring the lens stays wide open for focusing, 
only stopping down as you actually take the picture.  The simulator part 
allows the body to set an appropriate shutter speed.


Its absence on the original DSLR (replaced with an [GASP!] electronic 
system that required a different type of lens) was the cause of much 
wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who had large collections of 
lenses built up over many years and who could not put down purchase of 
new ones as a tax deductible.


There are some who swore they would never buy another body until a 
full-frame, weather-sealed, apeture simulated one became available.


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Re: Museum & lens selection

[gldnbearz]

Thanks, Steve.  Will bring 16-45 mounted on body w/ 12-24 for inside
the museums.  Maybe I can squeeze a longer lens in somewhere.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Desjardins, Steve  wrote:
> I went to the American History Museum and the Air and Space Museum last 
> month.  I was using an e-p1 with 14-42 lens, f3.5-5.6, which has a 2x crop 
> factor.  Most of my shots were at 14-18 in both museums, and the longest FL 
> was 30.  Thank heavens for the IS, however.  A max aperture of 2.8 would be 
> much better.  A monopod would have been very helpful, but I have no idea how 
> museum security would feel about that. No restrictions on picture taking, 
> however, except in those areas where a flash would spoil the effect.  No 
> flash, no problem.  Just shot in RAW so you can adjust the white balance 
> later or fiddle with the white balance as you go with JPG.  I would lean a 
> little toward the 16-45 over the 12-24, although bringing both would be the 
> way to go.  Leave the 50-whatevers for walking around outside.
>
> Great place for photos, especially Air and Space which is bit brighter than 
> the AHM.  Natural History is similar to American History in terms of lighting.

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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 11, 2009, at 13:38, Desjardins, Steve wrote:

It was, essentially, a little doohickey inside the body end of the  
lens mount that pressed a tiny pin on the older lenses that would  
make the lens stop down to chosen f stop.  It went away when Pentax  
ate from the tree of digital knowledge, but many still await its  
return.




bzzt!

It was a lever on the body which would interact with a lever on the  
lens (K-M series automatic lenses) so that the camera body would know:  
"hey, this lens is now stopped down to such-and-such a stop" while  
allowing the aperture to remain all the way open.  The light meter  
would compensate as if there was less light coming in so that you'd  
know the exposure was set correctly.


When the photo is/was taken, the other thingie which has been holding  
the aperture all the way open would drop and the lens would stop down  
to the set value - shutter opens, shutter closes, aperture again pops  
all the way open.


This ability (to "just know" what aperture the K or M lens is set to)  
is not in the digital SLR bodies.  If you have a "non-A" lens, and you  
want to shoot at something other than wide open, you have to use  
manual mode and "the green button" to physically stop down the lens,  
take a light reading WITH THE APERTURE STOPPED DOWN, and then pop the  
aperture wide open to let you focus, compose, etc.


I may have some specifics wrong, but that is *basically* it.

 -Charles

--
Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com
Minneapolis, MN
http://charles.robinsontwins.org
http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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RE: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Desjardins, Steve]

It was, essentially, a little doohickey inside the body end of the lens mount 
that pressed a tiny pin on the older lenses that would make the lens stop down 
to chosen f stop.  It went away when Pentax ate from the tree of digital 
knowledge, but many still await its return.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John 
Sessoms
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:17 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

From: Scott Loveless
> On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>> >
>> > Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
>> >  performance and higher price bracket.
> 
> My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
> simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.

This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't 
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.

Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:

K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super

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RE: photographing guitars

[John Sessoms]

From: Larry Colen
Just got word of a possible paid gig on Monday photographing guitars. 

Anything in particular to watch out for? 


Reflections? Use a polarizer? Try to set up a light tent?

  Larry


Reflections are a big deal. It's like photographing glass. You can 
easily get blown out specular highlights from the finish.


You want a very large light vs. the instrument.

In school we used hot lights reflected off 4'x8' white panels to give a 
soft, even overall light, but you could do strobes the same.


A big light tent should work. Move the lights back so that the whole 
tent illuminates the instrument without hot spots.


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Re: Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[Doug Brewer]

John Sessoms wrote:

This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't 
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.


Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:


K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super




careful what you wish for, John. The flames of Hell await.

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Aperture sumulator was (Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.)

[John Sessoms]

From: Scott Loveless

On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:

>
> Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
>  performance and higher price bracket.


My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.


This seems to be an old inside joke on PDML, but I still don't 
understand what an aperture simulator is supposed to do.


Yeah, it simulates the aperture, but to what purpose?

Can someone explain it in REAL SIMPLE terms?

For reference, I have the following Pentax cameras to use as examples I 
can look at it while I'm reading the explanation if any applies:


K10D
*ist-D
PZ-1P
LX
Super Program
K1000
Auto-110 Super

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Re: Facebook grabbing your copyright?

[John Sessoms]

From: D. Glenn Arthur Jr.

IANAL, but doesn't this basically translate, despite the scary
legalese, to:  "If you post a picture, you're authorizing us
to _display_ that picture, subject to your privacy settings,
until you delete the picture (unless you've given somebody 
else permission to display it and they haven't deleted their 
copy yet)"  ??


That doesn't sound scary; it sounds like how photo-sharing
works.  The only part that gives me pause is the "transferable,
sub-licensable" bit, which makes it sound as though they can 
sell other companies permission to display your pics off-site,

and I don't know why they'd need that for the site to work as
expected, but it still sounds like that goes away when you
remove the picture from FaceBook.  Maybe that part is for
third-party apps that work with the site?

I'd like to see it constrained a little more than it is, but
I don't find it startling.  But, as I said, IANAL (and may be
insufficiently paranoid in today's IP climate).


The sub-license stuff sounds like it's intended to cover all the 
possible scenarios where someone copies a photo or links to or embeds 
part of a Facebook page in a blog or webpage.


Someone sat down with a lawyer and described all the different ways 
Facebook might be accessed and the lawyer came up with language you have 
to agree to saying that's OK with you before you can become a member.


It's not so they can sell the photos, but so you can't sue Facebook if 
some other Facebook user takes the photos from Facebook.


I expect there's also something in their Terms of Service where you are 
required to agree not to take other members photos (or other IP) without 
their permission.


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RE: Museum & lens selection

[Desjardins, Steve]

And here's the actual link (D'Oh)

http://chemistry.wlu.edu/~desjardins/

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
Desjardins, Steve
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:41 PM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: Museum & lens selection

Here's a few examples from A&S.  The second picture is one of the five 
remaining bicycles made by the Wright Brothers.  This is where the polarizer 
would have been really helpful.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
Desjardins, Steve
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:32 PM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: Museum & lens selection

I went to the American History Museum and the Air and Space Museum last month.  
I was using an e-p1 with 14-42 lens, f3.5-5.6, which has a 2x crop factor.  
Most of my shots were at 14-18 in both museums, and the longest FL was 30.  
Thank heavens for the IS, however.  A max aperture of 2.8 would be much better. 
 A monopod would have been very helpful, but I have no idea how museum security 
would feel about that. No restrictions on picture taking, however, except in 
those areas where a flash would spoil the effect.  No flash, no problem.  Just 
shot in RAW so you can adjust the white balance later or fiddle with the white 
balance as you go with JPG.  I would lean a little toward the 16-45 over the 
12-24, although bringing both would be the way to go.  Leave the 50-whatevers 
for walking around outside.

Great place for photos, especially Air and Space which is bit brighter than the 
AHM.  Natural History is similar to American History in terms of lighting.  




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
gldnbearz
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:56 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Museum & lens selection

I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
(rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
welcome.

- Pat

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Scott Loveless]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:51 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> P. J. Alling wrote:
>>
>> mike wilson wrote:
>>
>>>  Mark Roberts  wrote:

 Larry Colen wrote:


>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42:50PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote:
>
>>
>> On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of
>>> higher
>>>  performance and higher price bracket.
>>>
>>
>> My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
>> simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.
>>
>
> My recollection was the hint that it would be an APS camera with "full
> frame performance".
>

 Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.

>>>
>>>
>>> 645D?
>>>
>>
>> A straight response?  Get with the Program.
>
> Don't put me on the Spot like that.

You're MXing your camera series again.

-- 
Scott Loveless
Cigarette-free since December 14th, 2008
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Facebook grabbing your copyright?

[John Sessoms]

From: "Lasse Karlsson"

From: "Dario Bonazza" 

> Please check the conditions for publishing your pictures on FB and then
> decide.
> http://www.facebook.com/terms.php?ref=pf
>
> The key concept:
>
> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos 
> and

> videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission,
> subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a
> non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide 
> license

> to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP
> License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your
> account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not
> deleted it.


It seems that all you have to do, in case they'd use any of your pictures 
and you don't approve of it, is to delete that particular picture and their 
right to use it (the license) is thereby immediately terminated.


Now let's hope that they'd still use it after deletion so that you can sue 
them and get some monetary compensation...


Lasse 


Under U.S. law I don't think you could get compensation even if they did 
continue to use it. At most you could get them to stop using it.


The terms of service looks like a "hold harmless" clause; i.e. YOU 
upload to Facebook and if somebody rips off your photo it's not 
Facebook's fault.


If it's been shared around, it's your responsibility to find and delete 
any of your photos you don't want to be there.


And it looks like it might be a way for them to avoid liability in the 
case a user uploads photos that are not their own.


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RE: Museum & lens selection

[Desjardins, Steve]

Here's a few examples from A&S.  The second picture is one of the five 
remaining bicycles made by the Wright Brothers.  This is where the polarizer 
would have been really helpful.

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
Desjardins, Steve
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:32 PM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: Museum & lens selection

I went to the American History Museum and the Air and Space Museum last month.  
I was using an e-p1 with 14-42 lens, f3.5-5.6, which has a 2x crop factor.  
Most of my shots were at 14-18 in both museums, and the longest FL was 30.  
Thank heavens for the IS, however.  A max aperture of 2.8 would be much better. 
 A monopod would have been very helpful, but I have no idea how museum security 
would feel about that. No restrictions on picture taking, however, except in 
those areas where a flash would spoil the effect.  No flash, no problem.  Just 
shot in RAW so you can adjust the white balance later or fiddle with the white 
balance as you go with JPG.  I would lean a little toward the 16-45 over the 
12-24, although bringing both would be the way to go.  Leave the 50-whatevers 
for walking around outside.

Great place for photos, especially Air and Space which is bit brighter than the 
AHM.  Natural History is similar to American History in terms of lighting.  




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
gldnbearz
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:56 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Museum & lens selection

I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
(rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
welcome.

- Pat

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Re: Katz Eye K7 Focusing screen now available

[John Sessoms]

From: Doug Brewer

P. J. Alling wrote:

> Tim Bray wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Christine  
>> Aguila wrote:
>>  

>>> just received this from Katz Eye:
>>> 

>>
>> So, would anyone like to speak up and argue either that a Katz-eye
>> will change my life and pictures dramatically for the better, or that
>> it's irrelevant or even harmful?  -T
>>   
> Yes your photos will rival those of Henry Carter Benson and Ansel 
> Adams.  Not only will it help you find photographic fame and fortune, it 
> will remove the crabgrass from you lawn, regrow your hair, and 
> reinvigorate your love life.


Henry Carter Benson?


clergyman, born near Xenia, Ohio, in 1815.

He became a Methodist minister in 1842, joining the Indiana conference, 
and in 1850 was elected professor of Greek in Indiana Asbury University. 
In 1852 he removed to California. He was editor of the "Pacific 
Christian Advocate" at Portland, Oregon, from 1864 to 1868, in which 
year he became editor of the "California Advocate." For several years he 
labored among the Choctaw Indians as a missionary, and he has related 
his experiences in a book called "Life among the Choctaws." He has also 
published an essay on "The Lord's Day, or the Christian Sabbath the 
First Day of the Week, not the Seventh."


Nikon shooter.

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RE: Museum & lens selection

[Desjardins, Steve]

I went to the American History Museum and the Air and Space Museum last month.  
I was using an e-p1 with 14-42 lens, f3.5-5.6, which has a 2x crop factor.  
Most of my shots were at 14-18 in both museums, and the longest FL was 30.  
Thank heavens for the IS, however.  A max aperture of 2.8 would be much better. 
 A monopod would have been very helpful, but I have no idea how museum security 
would feel about that. No restrictions on picture taking, however, except in 
those areas where a flash would spoil the effect.  No flash, no problem.  Just 
shot in RAW so you can adjust the white balance later or fiddle with the white 
balance as you go with JPG.  I would lean a little toward the 16-45 over the 
12-24, although bringing both would be the way to go.  Leave the 50-whatevers 
for walking around outside.

Great place for photos, especially Air and Space which is bit brighter than the 
AHM.  Natural History is similar to American History in terms of lighting.  




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of 
gldnbearz
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:56 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Museum & lens selection

I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
(rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
welcome.

- Pat

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Re: PESO: Grace goes to Kindergarten

[John Sessoms]

From: Paul Stenquist
She's still afraid of the bus. Since it's half day Kindergarten, we  
only get bus service one way, but since the bus frightens her, we have  
to drop her off and pick her up after school. I'm sure she'll get over  
it when she sees friends taking the bus.

Paul


But, all she has to do is click her heels together three times and says 
"There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no 
place like home!"  ;-D


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Re: Facebook grabbing your copyright?

[Luiz Felipe]

Diff worlds after all - here the unholy freeloader will gladly print any 
web image to whatever size, acknowledge nothing, and blame me on the 
poor result, saying the photo was lousy to start - but he'll steal from 
me again, if my image is around and looks interesting enough for the 
price. :-(


Not always, there are good persons around. But often enough.

lf

paul stenquist escreveu:
I have literally thousands of photos posted on various web sites. Once 
in a while one turns up somewhere else, frequently with a photo credit. 
Doesn't bother me. In fact I like it. It certainly hasn't affected my 
photography income. If anything, the unauthorized use is an enhancement. 
In one instance an advertiser swiped a low-res version of one of my 
photos from photo.net for a comp. When they decided to produce the ad, 
they purchased a hi-res version from me for a rather handsome sum.


Steal my photos! Please!!

Paul
On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Luiz Felipe wrote:

That kind of "license of use" was rather common when I tried to setup 
my first page (Geocities and other free services), so I didn't post 
any that I wouldn't "risk" somewhat. Later I started keeping the 
photos in a different server with no such agreement.


Later yet I found out the "friendly" host had some back-up issues - 
once posted, never deleted... right now they still have some of my 
stuff available if one hit the right address. I only managed to kill 
the main access after I pointed my index to their own home page. But I 
had to do it twice, to skip the back-up from hell feature.


Today I only post my pics to PDML and my own page - all the four 
pics... ;-)


lf

Dario Bonazza escreveu:
Please check the conditions for publishing your pictures on FB and 
then decide.

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php?ref=pf
The key concept:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like 
photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the 
following permission, subject to your privacy and application 
settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, 
royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post 
on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License 
ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your 
content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

I've decided to take my pictures away.
Dario
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Re: Museum & lens selection

[steve harley]

they whom i cal Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> Shooting inside museums ... well, one isn't generally allowed to
> photograph the museum's art collection or installations,

it really depends; i recently found one can photograph freely (sans 
flash) at the Louvre, not that there's much sense in trying to "capture" 
the Mona Lisa ...


at the National in DC this spring, i could photograph pretty much 
anything but the photography (there were Frank and Adams exhibits at the 
time)


> and it's only
> the rare museum that provides grist for long lens work, like the Tate
> Modern and its vast Turbine Hall.

i had fun with my 50-200 at the Smithsonian Natural History museum; for 
some specimens up high in "natural" poses, for example, and for detail 
on things like large dinosaur skeletons; it was by far my less-used lens 
though



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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Christian]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Shooting inside museums ... well, one isn't generally allowed to
photograph the museum's art collection or installations, 


The Smithsonian has no issue with it.
--

Christian
http://404mohawknotfound.blogspot.com/

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Re: photographing guitars

[Luiz Felipe]

Since you're not sure of the shot, bracket - er, take more than one option.

Polarizers are helpful indeed, but sometimes they just don't save the 
situation. Depending on the guitar details, you could get very 
interesting results showing the surface under the reflections.


Classic (acoustic), Metal, Custom painted, details, full lenght... You 
should get a very detailed briefing with the others - client, adviser - 
about their intentions. Of course, have plans b, c and d ready...


Backgound? Are they going to be shot one by one? Do they want a blonde 
behind the guitars? If so, what clothing? Is the client going to be 
present? If you're going to show the client some samples gathered from 
the net, avoid showing something you can't do - either because you don't 
have lights enough, or because you don't have the space to park the 
hummer or the leopard in the background.


Good luck - and good light.

lf

Larry Colen escreveu:
Just got word of a possible paid gig on Monday photographing guitars. 

Anything in particular to watch out for? 


Reflections? Use a polarizer? Try to set up a light tent?

  Larry



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RE: Front Element Protection (was: Dropped K200D)

[John Sessoms]

From: eckinator

Is there such a thing as a final verdict on UV vs Skylight vs
'Protection' (whatever those are - do they block overprotective rays?)
Filters?
I need to buy one for my 16-50 seeing the time I spend in sandboxes
with my camera these days... a blower wont do the trick for me all the
time.
Thanks
Ecke


I don't think it matters all that much what type of filter you use.

The idea is if you're going to be out in the wilds with your camera, you 
scratch up a $50 filter instead of a $700 lens.


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Re:, http://www.comcast.net/articles/entertainment/20090905/US.Annie.Leibovitz/

[John Sessoms]

From: AlunFoto

Leibovitz' financial quagmire was mentioned over at The Online
Photographer a while ago too. There's a link there somewhere about a
NY Times article that digs very deep. From that article, it seems the
good Annie doesn't really have any grip on money management.

She's even worse than me...  :-) 


Probably not. She's just had more of it to mismanage.

I'm sure if I had millions of dollars I could do a better job of 
frittering it away than she has. ;-D


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RE: a silly old photo

[John Sessoms]

From: Larry Colen

I was trying to see if I had an old photo (other than Jr. High
yearbook) of the photographer at my friend's wedding this weekend, and
ran across a photo of myself:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3902314941_2a4981da25.jpg

Even though I don't know who took it, or with what camera, it is
topical to this list.

It is also an example of a now obsolete darkroom technique. Rather
than my describing it, I'll see if anyone can figure out how the
vignetting was done.


Looks like somebody slopped paint on a piece of glass, and exposed the 
paper through it.


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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Shooting inside museums ... well, one isn't generally allowed to
photograph the museum's art collection or installations, and it's only
the rare museum that provides grist for long lens work, like the Tate
Modern and its vast Turbine Hall. So my usual notion is to concentrate
on people and deal with the usual horrid lighting situations ... A
wide-normal and/or normal to short portrait tele, both fast, are the
ideal lenses to have. An ultrawide is sometimes very handy too, but I
need to be in the right mood for it.

EG: at MOMA in SF, I carried just the Rollei 35S which has a 40mm
f/2.8 lens (wide-normal). I liked the set of photos it made for me ...

architectural:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3422/3844190734_2da6a80f8c_o.jpg

people:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2527/3843402077_96fbb062d9_o.jpg

set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/sets/72157622105937452/

Given the lenses you mention above, I'd leave the 50-135 home, carry
the 16-45 and 12-24. Or I'd find a fast lens ... the 35, 43 or 50mm
... and carry that along with the 12-24.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: PESO 2009 - 167 - GDG

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:44 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>  http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com/167-lone-gingko-leaf
>>
> I like the texture and how the leaf is cut in half by the line.
> Nice one

tnx, Dave!
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Boris Liberman]

gldnbearz wrote:

Hi Boris-

Do you think wearing a small backpack would be a bad idea in the
museums?  I know some places won't let you in if you have a backpack
that's too big.

- Pat


Pat, nowadays there is a line of people entering the museum as the 
personal belongings and people themselves are checked. I had an Lowepro 
Orion II Trekker bag with me (my standard bag) which I think is small to 
medium size. No problems whatsoever except that the museum was full of 
people and it wasn't most convenient to have a backpack inside the crowd 
of people. Otherwise - no problems.


Boris


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FS: Several Pentax lenses and a camera body

[Carlos R]

I have several lenses and a camera body which I don't use nowadays and 
would like to sell:


smc Pentax-DA 18-55 mm. 3.5-5.6 (version 1). Like new in box, with both 
caps and hood. 40 euros.


SMC Pentax-F 80-200 mm. 4.7-5.6 AF. In excellent condition, black 
version, front and back caps. 60 euros.


SMC Pentax-FA 28 mm. 2.8 Like new in box, front and back caps, very 
difficult to find now. 180 euros.


Tamron 2x macro teleconverter. 7 elements, BBAR multicoating, KA mount., 
It goes to 1:1 with a 50 mm. lens. It is also an excellent 
teleconverter. In excellent condition, with front and back caps. 40 euro.


Pentax MZ-S AF SLR body, plus BG-10 grip. Both of them like new and 
boxed, with manuals. 450 euros.


Prices dont't include shipping expenses. In case you are interested, 
send me a message off list.


Carlos

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[mike wilson]

P. J. Alling wrote:

mike wilson wrote:

 Mark Roberts  wrote:  


Larry Colen wrote:

   


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42:50PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote:
 


On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:
   

Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of 
higher

 performance and higher price bracket.
  


My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.



My recollection was the hint that it would be an APS camera with "full
frame performance".
  


Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.




645D?
  


A straight response?  Get with the Program.


Don't put me on the Spot like that.

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Re: One Exposure

[Toine]

Water drops on 1x.com! Must be something special and this one sure is.
If you think PPG is difficult to get photos published try 1x.com!
I'm trying every now and then:

http://1x.com/?action=profile&user=4160


2009/9/10 Larry Colen :
> A friend just pointed me to a rather cool photo website:
> http://1x.com/
>
> Here's the shot she posted a link to:
> http://1x.com//photos/macro/25403/
>
> --
> The first step is learning to take great photos,
> the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
> Larry Colen             l...@red4est.com            http://www.red4est.com/lrc
>
>
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Re: Museum & lens selection

[gldnbearz]

Hi Graydon-

Haven't got a macro,  thanks for advice about the polarizer.  Willl
see if I can find the one that fits the 16-45.

- Pat

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Graydon  wrote:
> I've got a lot of use out of 100mm macro in museums; pictures of just
> that piece of pottery, etc.
>
> If at all possible, take a polarizer; most good display cabinets with
> high-UV-block glass are a right pain for reflections, and the polarizer
> may help thin those out.

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Re: Museum & lens selection

[gldnbearz]

Hi Christian-

We're flying in on the Sunday night red-eye to Dulles, early 9/14 AM
arrival.  Tues tour of the Supreme Court building, Weds tour of the
Capitol building.  Flying out Friday 9/18 early PM.

DH wants to see the Air & Space museum and the Natural History museum.
 I want to check out Arlington now that all 3 Kennedys are in one
place.  Of course, as many of the monuments as we can see.

- Pat

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Christian  wrote:
> Living in (near) DC and frequenting the museums quite often my suggestion is
> to bring the wide stuff and leave the long stuff at home.
>
> The Smithsonian Museums are notoriously crowded so you have to get close to
> the exhibits to photograph them.  Bring the 12-24.
>
> For outdoor shots and scenics of the monuments and buildings the wide angles
> are a great choice.  Of course the 50-135 wouldn't hurt either. :-)
>
> What are your plans for the visit?

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Re: Museum & lens selection

[gldnbearz]

Hi Boris-

Do you think wearing a small backpack would be a bad idea in the
museums?  I know some places won't let you in if you have a backpack
that's too big.

- Pat

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> Pat, I've done my shooting inside Smithsonian museums with DA 21/3.2 ltd at
> f/4. Thus, I think that either 16-45 or 12-24 would do fine for you. Without
> knowing your style it is hard to offer any sensible advise, but you have to
> travel light and if your copy of 16-45 is good, perhaps it would be a
> reasonable idea to take just one lens mounted on just one camera with you.
>
> Boris

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[P. J. Alling]

mike wilson wrote:
 Mark Roberts  wrote: 
  

Larry Colen wrote:



On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42:50PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote:
  

On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:


Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
 performance and higher price bracket.
  

My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.


My recollection was the hint that it would be an APS camera with "full
frame performance".
  

Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.



645D?
  

A straight response?  Get with the Program.


--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Christian]

gldnbearz wrote:

I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
(rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
welcome.

- Pat



Living in (near) DC and frequenting the museums quite often my 
suggestion is to bring the wide stuff and leave the long stuff at home.


The Smithsonian Museums are notoriously crowded so you have to get close 
to the exhibits to photograph them.  Bring the 12-24.


For outdoor shots and scenics of the monuments and buildings the wide 
angles are a great choice.  Of course the 50-135 wouldn't hurt either. :-)


What are your plans for the visit?


--

Christian
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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Graydon]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:28:16AM -0400, P. J. Alling scripsit:
> Cotty wrote:
>> On 10/9/09, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>> I'll join Cotty for dinner if we see a full frame Pentax before
>>> 2011.
>>
>> BYOH.
>
> I'll send the Tabasco.

I dunno; I think the lack of tenderness in hats would be more or a
problem than the extremely bland taste or the horrendous mouth feel.
You'd want something with real authority -- curried habanero
horseradish, say -- to help break down the cotton fibres in the hat.
Nylon or polyester fibres would be even worse; a fur-felt fedora might
be worst of all.

-- Graydon, who thinks an announcement on 2010/12/27 would be so very
much in keeping with the fine Pentax marketing tradition

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[P. J. Alling]

AlunFoto wrote:

2009/9/11 Mark Roberts :
  

Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.



Having just bought the K-7, I'll stick to my perch for a while.

Jostein
  

So you';re abandoning the Sunny" 16 rule?



* Sunfish 
http://www.greenexpander.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ocean-sunfish.jpg


--


The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or 
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn 
fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Construction VI

[David J Brooks]

Some nice ones there.
I like the last one of the rebar and workers

Dave

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Christine  Aguila  wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>
> I'm kind of drowning in construction photos right now, which makes it
> overwhelming when trying to sort out the pics.  But here's a quick gallery.
> They've started work on the 2nd floor of the parking garage and the ramp.
> The speed at which they are working now is amazing.  I have to get my hard
> drive situation sorted ASAP--only 27 gigs left.  Yikes.  I'll probably go
> with adding an internal drive if possible.
>
>
> http://www.caguila.com/caguila/trumansecondfloor/index.html
>
> comments welcome
> Cheers, Christine
>
>
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Re: PESO 2009 - 167 - GDG

[David J Brooks]

I like the texture and how the leaf is cut in half by the line.

Nice one

Dave

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> thoughts and photo ...
>
>  http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com/167-lone-gingko-leaf
>
> comments always appreciated. thanks for looking.
>
> Godfrey
> --
> a photo blog: http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: keywords in LightRoom

[David J Brooks]

My key word work flow is pretty basic, and probably wrong, but:

I drag and drop the folder i want to open in LR and when the dialogue
box opens i insert the words i want, for example , the last folder
opened was of a family function, so, Simpson's, North Bay, 2009,
portraits.

That should help me in my searches, i hope.:-)

Dave



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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[P. J. Alling]

I'll send the Tabasco.

Cotty wrote:

On 10/9/09, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

  

I'll join Cotty for dinner if we
see a full frame Pentax before 2011.



BYOH.

;)

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fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a 
free man any more than a dog.

--G. K. Chesterton


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Re: Facebook grabbing your copyright?

[David J Brooks]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:59 PM, paul stenquist  wrote:
. In fact I like it. It certainly hasn't affected my photography
> income.
Opposite for me Paul. I used to see my ripped off thumbnails printed
out as 8x10's and displayed at horse shows, with water mark dead
centre.

I figure i was loosing quite a bit of income from this kind of thing.
This was what pushed me over the edge STS and give it up.

Now, i hear some of the new comers that are scooping up my old clients
complain about the theft.

:-)

Dave

Dave

> Steal my photos! Please!!
>
> Paul
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Luiz Felipe wrote:
>
>> That kind of "license of use" was rather common when I tried to setup my
>> first page (Geocities and other free services), so I didn't post any that I
>> wouldn't "risk" somewhat. Later I started keeping the photos in a different
>> server with no such agreement.
>>
>> Later yet I found out the "friendly" host had some back-up issues - once
>> posted, never deleted... right now they still have some of my stuff
>> available if one hit the right address. I only managed to kill the main
>> access after I pointed my index to their own home page. But I had to do it
>> twice, to skip the back-up from hell feature.
>>
>> Today I only post my pics to PDML and my own page - all the four pics...
>> ;-)
>>
>> lf
>>
>> Dario Bonazza escreveu:
>>>
>>> Please check the conditions for publishing your pictures on FB and then
>>> decide.
>>> http://www.facebook.com/terms.php?ref=pf
>>> The key concept:
>>> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos
>>> and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following
>>> permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a
>>> non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license
>>> to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP
>>> License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your
>>> account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not
>>> deleted it.
>>> I've decided to take my pictures away.
>>> Dario
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>> --
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>> luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br
>> http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/
>>
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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Paul Stenquist]

On Sep 11, 2009, at 9:23 AM, mike wilson wrote:



 Mark Roberts  wrote:

Larry Colen wrote:


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42:50PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote:

On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:


Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of  
higher

performance and higher price bracket.


My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back  
aperture

simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.


My recollection was the hint that it would be an APS camera with  
"full

frame performance".


Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.


645D?


That will probably be the next big news. But he next camera will be a  
slightly dumbed down version of the K7. We're only a matter of weeks  
from the K7 launch. That was something interesting, and it already  
came down the pike. We're not talking Canon and Nikon here. Major  
releases will continue to be few and far between.

Paul



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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 Mark Roberts :
>>> Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.
>>If it's red, it's a herring.
> I cannot reveal any more until everything is in plaice.

Singing to the embargo tuna.

Jostein


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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Mark Roberts]

AlunFoto wrote:

>2009/9/11 Mark Roberts :
>> Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.
>
>If it's red, it's a herring.

I cannot reveal any more until everything is in plaice.


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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Graydon]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 09:25:37AM -0400, Doug Franklin scripsit:
> gldnbearz wrote:
>> I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
>> wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
>> suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
>> equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
>> and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
>> (rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
>> 12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
>> welcome.
>
> Faster is better indoors, and I wouldn't expect you'd use the longer  
> lenses much at all.  I'd be tempted to take only the 12-24 and 16-45.  
> It's been years since I visited Washington, DC, but I remember a /lot/  
> of opportunities that'd need the short lenses and very few for the  
> longer lenses.

I've got a lot of use out of 100mm macro in museums; pictures of just
that piece of pottery, etc.

If at all possible, take a polarizer; most good display cabinets with
high-UV-block glass are a right pain for reflections, and the polarizer
may help thin those out.

-- Graydon

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[mike wilson]

 Cotty  wrote: 
> 
> 
> >Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.
> 
> I can't bare the tenchion.

Broach a new topic, then.

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Re: OT: Organic

[mike wilson]

 AlunFoto  wrote: 
> Are we doing anything else here?

Mark!

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Re: Museum & lens selection

[Doug Franklin]

gldnbearz wrote:

I am pretty excited about traveling to Washington, DC, next week and
wandering about all the great museums.  If I do not check-in my
suitcase, I will not be able to bring a dedicated camera bag and
equipment space could get a bit tight.  If I leave the 12-24 at home
and bring just the 16-45 plus something in the 50-135 or 55-300
(rental) range, will I regret this decision?  How useful would the
12-24 be for the museums?  Ideally, I'd bring all three, but input
welcome.


Faster is better indoors, and I wouldn't expect you'd use the longer 
lenses much at all.  I'd be tempted to take only the 12-24 and 16-45. 
It's been years since I visited Washington, DC, but I remember a /lot/ 
of opportunities that'd need the short lenses and very few for the 
longer lenses.


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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[mike wilson]

 Mark Roberts  wrote: 
> Larry Colen wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:42:50PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote:
> >> On 9/10/09, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Unless it's something much better than the K7, both in terms of higher
> >> >  performance and higher price bracket.
> >> 
> >> My money's on Cotty NOT eating his hat.  They'll bring back aperture
> >> simulators before we see a full frame SLR from Pentax.
> >
> >My recollection was the hint that it would be an APS camera with "full
> >frame performance".
> 
> Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.

645D?

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 Mark Roberts :
> Well, I think something interesting's coming down the pike.

If it's red, it's a herring.

Jostein

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Re: OT: Organic

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
> Again be careful.  MRSA deaths are an old people & nursing home problem,
> after significant hospital stays and treatment.
> I expect germs and antibotic are each 100X the typical occurence.
> Regards,  Bob S.

Fortunately, it's still mostly true that the so-called superbugs are
only successful at infecting people with already reduced immune
systems. So they're only "super" in their resistance against common
ABs, not in infectiousness. It's irony that the environments most
suited to their propagation is where people go when they do have
reduced immune systems. Whether of old age, injury or other diseases.

IOW, it's where you would expect such bugs to thrive. It's their habitat.

BTW, it's also a serious problem that their existence can undermine
people's confidence in the healthcare system. :-(

Jostein


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Re: OT: Organic

[eckinator]

2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
>
> MRSA deaths are an old people & nursing home problem,
> after significant hospital stays and treatment.

To a point. As for morbidity/mortality rates, point taken. As for
infections, please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphylococcus_aureus
MRSA seems to be spreading beyond the hospital population from what
the article says.

> I expect germs and antibotic are each 100X the typical occurence.

Please help, my English is failing me - what do you mean by that?

Thanks
Ecke

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Re: OT: Organic

[Bob Sullivan]

Again be careful.  MRSA deaths are an old people & nursing home problem,
after significant hospital stays and treatment.
I expect germs and antibotic are each 100X the typical occurence.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:11 AM, eckinator  wrote:
> Glad you go into so much detail =)
>
> What I was trying to do was to point out the bigger picture in
> somewhat simpler terms.
>
> Yes, there is natural occurrence of ABs but synthetic ones are clearly
> traceable and we cannot ignore their impact in terms of promoting
> resistance. MRSA was an illustration of what multiresistance can lead
> to. 19.000 documented deaths in the US in 2005, in fact more lives
> than AIDS claimed in the same year. I totally agree about excessive
> (mis)use of ABs by doctors and patients alike. Similar effects are
> observable with Malaria BTW.
>
> What we shouldn't underestimate is the enormous AB abuse in livestock.
> In many places, ABs are added to food in much the same way as vitamins
> and minerals and there is at least in the EU no legislation banning
> ABs for any time outside the last six weeks before slaughtering. If
> you then look at the genetic similarities between humans/primates and
> other land mammals (IIRC from biology class pigs share 97% DNA with
> humans) it becomes quite clear that there is or will be an impact, now
> or at some point. And yes about the huge favor we'd be doing nature.
>
> I guess I am oversensitive though because I have the feeling that most
> people around me just don't give a flying fuck about these things with
> the sorry excuse that nothing they can do will change or save a thing.
> I guess many of us have to think that way unless they want to question
> their lifestyle.
>
> Rant mode off and sorry for wasting everyone's time.
>
> Cheers
> Ecke
>
> 2009/9/11 AlunFoto :
>> Be careful about overdramatising antibiotics occurence in nature.
>> Antibiotics occur naturally in any habitat suitable for fungal growth.
>>
>> I think it is a mistake to put multi-resistant bacterias in hospitals
>> into this mix. It has very little to do with use of pesticides in
>> agriculture, or antibiotics in livestock. It has all the more to do
>> with the sloppy practice of GPs in prescribing antibiotics for
>> situations where they are not needed or not effective (ie viral
>> infections), and with general incompetence in the public about using
>> antibiotics. It is very common that patients quits the antibiotics
>> treatment when they start to feel better, rather than finishing the
>> cure. In addition, they save the leftovers for later occasion, taking
>> them as they would aspirin. This practice promotes resistance in
>> _human_ pathogens directly, and is a much larger problem than use of
>> antibiotics in livestock. I wish this could receive even half as much
>> attention as all this stuff about "clean" food. It would do both us
>> and nature a huge favour.
>>
>> Jostein
>>
>> 2009/9/11 eckinator :
>>> The principal difference to me is that organic fruit and vegetables
>>> reduce the amount of fertilizers and persticides polluting our water
>>> and that organic meat even more importantly reduces the amount of
>>> antibiotics released into the environment. Antibiotics are in fact
>>> traceable in almost all liquid water (except freshly molten glacier
>>> water etc) and affect the food chain and nature's system as a whole by
>>> either reducing bacterail growth or forcing the development by
>>> mutation of singly or multiply resistant bacteria. Anyone ever heard
>>> of the death toll of MRSA in hospitals? Well worth reading... it is
>>> not about your health, it is about the damage you do mainly. There are
>>> enough toxic substances in the environment to easily offset the
>>> benefits of organic food as it is...
>>> Cheers
>>> Ecke
>>>
>>> 2009/9/11 AlunFoto :
 2009/9/8 John Sessoms :
>
> What exactly *IS* organic? How does a product qualify to have that label?
>
> It's like things labeled "natural". It doesn't mean anything.

 What I do know is that unless you _are_ a vegetable, there's no such
 thing as inorganic food. :-)

 What defined as organic is defined in legislation in Europe. However I
 feel that the health effect of organic (or "ecological" as it is
 labelled in Norway) is overrated for many products. Scary stories like
 the peppers from Germany of course reinforces the good vs. bad
 dichotomy, but for most products I don't think the difference is that
 dramatic.

 On another note, high quality (and high price) non-organic food is
 competing directly with its organic counterparts. The cheap stuff is
 bad whether it's organic or not.

 Jostein


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Re: OT: Organic

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 eckinator :
> I guess I am oversensitive though because I have the feeling that most
> people around me just don't give a flying fuck about these things with
> the sorry excuse that nothing they can do will change or save a thing.

I believe we think quite similarly about this. And their argument is
simply standing in for the comfort of not knowing what's going on.
It's the price of a specialised society, I guess... There are lots of
things I will never bother about either. Such as the finer nits of
stock brokering, for example... :-)

> I guess many of us have to think that way unless they want to question
> their lifestyle.

Indeed. That's true across all social strata, I think.

> Rant mode off and sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Are we doing anything else here?

Jostein

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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 Bob Sullivan :
> Oh my!  I watched Gordon Ramsey catch and eat Puffin yesterday.
> He didn't much care for perching on the cliffs with a long pole and a net.
> Regards,  Bob S.

That's traditional for Iceland. And possibly the Faroe islands. Not
much meat on those little furballs, though.

Jostein


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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[AlunFoto]

2009/9/11 Cotty :
> On 11/9/09, AlunFoto, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Having just bought the K-7, I'll stick to my perch for a while.
>
> Lovely plumage mate. Norwegian innit?

Ain't got the blues yet.

Wasn't really fishing for compliments, though.

Jostein


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Re: Pentax K-7 review, part 3 - the final.

[Bob Sullivan]

Oh my!  I watched Gordon Ramsey catch and eat Puffin yesterday.
He didn't much care for perching on the cliffs with a long pole and a net.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Cotty  wrote:
> On 11/9/09, AlunFoto, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Having just bought the K-7, I'll stick to my perch for a while.
>
> Lovely plumage mate. Norwegian innit?
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
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Re: OT: Organic

[eckinator]

Glad you go into so much detail =)

What I was trying to do was to point out the bigger picture in
somewhat simpler terms.

Yes, there is natural occurrence of ABs but synthetic ones are clearly
traceable and we cannot ignore their impact in terms of promoting
resistance. MRSA was an illustration of what multiresistance can lead
to. 19.000 documented deaths in the US in 2005, in fact more lives
than AIDS claimed in the same year. I totally agree about excessive
(mis)use of ABs by doctors and patients alike. Similar effects are
observable with Malaria BTW.

What we shouldn't underestimate is the enormous AB abuse in livestock.
In many places, ABs are added to food in much the same way as vitamins
and minerals and there is at least in the EU no legislation banning
ABs for any time outside the last six weeks before slaughtering. If
you then look at the genetic similarities between humans/primates and
other land mammals (IIRC from biology class pigs share 97% DNA with
humans) it becomes quite clear that there is or will be an impact, now
or at some point. And yes about the huge favor we'd be doing nature.

I guess I am oversensitive though because I have the feeling that most
people around me just don't give a flying fuck about these things with
the sorry excuse that nothing they can do will change or save a thing.
I guess many of us have to think that way unless they want to question
their lifestyle.

Rant mode off and sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Cheers
Ecke

2009/9/11 AlunFoto :
> Be careful about overdramatising antibiotics occurence in nature.
> Antibiotics occur naturally in any habitat suitable for fungal growth.
>
> I think it is a mistake to put multi-resistant bacterias in hospitals
> into this mix. It has very little to do with use of pesticides in
> agriculture, or antibiotics in livestock. It has all the more to do
> with the sloppy practice of GPs in prescribing antibiotics for
> situations where they are not needed or not effective (ie viral
> infections), and with general incompetence in the public about using
> antibiotics. It is very common that patients quits the antibiotics
> treatment when they start to feel better, rather than finishing the
> cure. In addition, they save the leftovers for later occasion, taking
> them as they would aspirin. This practice promotes resistance in
> _human_ pathogens directly, and is a much larger problem than use of
> antibiotics in livestock. I wish this could receive even half as much
> attention as all this stuff about "clean" food. It would do both us
> and nature a huge favour.
>
> Jostein
>
> 2009/9/11 eckinator :
>> The principal difference to me is that organic fruit and vegetables
>> reduce the amount of fertilizers and persticides polluting our water
>> and that organic meat even more importantly reduces the amount of
>> antibiotics released into the environment. Antibiotics are in fact
>> traceable in almost all liquid water (except freshly molten glacier
>> water etc) and affect the food chain and nature's system as a whole by
>> either reducing bacterail growth or forcing the development by
>> mutation of singly or multiply resistant bacteria. Anyone ever heard
>> of the death toll of MRSA in hospitals? Well worth reading... it is
>> not about your health, it is about the damage you do mainly. There are
>> enough toxic substances in the environment to easily offset the
>> benefits of organic food as it is...
>> Cheers
>> Ecke
>>
>> 2009/9/11 AlunFoto :
>>> 2009/9/8 John Sessoms :

 What exactly *IS* organic? How does a product qualify to have that label?

 It's like things labeled "natural". It doesn't mean anything.
>>>
>>> What I do know is that unless you _are_ a vegetable, there's no such
>>> thing as inorganic food. :-)
>>>
>>> What defined as organic is defined in legislation in Europe. However I
>>> feel that the health effect of organic (or "ecological" as it is
>>> labelled in Norway) is overrated for many products. Scary stories like
>>> the peppers from Germany of course reinforces the good vs. bad
>>> dichotomy, but for most products I don't think the difference is that
>>> dramatic.
>>>
>>> On another note, high quality (and high price) non-organic food is
>>> competing directly with its organic counterparts. The cheap stuff is
>>> bad whether it's organic or not.
>>>
>>> Jostein
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://alunfoto.blogspot.com
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RE: photographing guitars

[J.C. O'Connell]

buy a collectable guitar book and copy their lighting technique.
Ask the client if they want minor dings, scratches etc left in or
photoshopped out.


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-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
Larry Colen
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:13 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: photographing guitars


Just got word of a possible paid gig on Monday photographing guitars. 

Anything in particular to watch out for? 

Reflections? Use a polarizer? Try to set up a light tent?

  Larry

-- 
The first step is learning to take great photos, 
the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good.
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
http://www.red4est.com/lrc


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