Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Those people would never be my clients. I'd rather pound sod. ;-)

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Bob W  wrote:
> I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment about the commercial
> practice of early Renaissance painting. You should think yourselves lucky
> your clients don't specify that you grind the colours yourself and use
> ultramarine at 2 florins the ounce on the Virgin's cloak, and ultramarine at
> one florin the ounce on the rest of the picture, and definitely none of that
> cheap German blue.
>

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[David Mann]

On Jul 13, 2012, at 4:12 AM, George Sinos wrote:

> There's a lot of over-thinking going on in this thread.  Most of it is
> technically correct and practically insignificant.

Mark!


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RE: Test

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Yes indeed!

cheers,
frank

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -- 
Christopher Hitchens

--- Original Message ---

From: Boris Liberman 
Sent: July 12, 2012 7/12/12
To: "Pentax-Discuss List" 
Subject: Test

Testing...


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com



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Test

[Boris Liberman]

Testing...


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Re: GESO - The Kids

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 6:55 DagT wrote

There´s always a danger that these pictures are too personal, but anyway: I 
managed to update the gallery and will try to work a little with the others too.
http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/kids/kids.html


your kids are very lucky
perhaps also a little unlucky with scrapes

love the beach shots 1070 & 1071

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Re: PESO - Twins!

[Jack Davis]

Again, I agree with your M200 opinion.
Clean, image and exceptionally nice colors.

Jack Davis
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/jackdavis
http://www.photolightimages.com/


- Original Message -
From: "knarftheria...@gmail.com" 
To: PDML@pdml.net
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: PESO - Twins!

The red-necked grebes have and exciting announcement: They're expecting, and 
it's going to be twins:

http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/twins.html?m=1

The last two years there was only one egg, this year two. In the seven or eight 
years they've been putting the floating platform for the grebes to nest on they 
have yet to have an egg hatch. Maybe this will be the year.

Might have a little gallery in a few days if I have the time. Until then hope 
you enjoy this one. It was handheld so I'm satisfied with the sharpness. That 
M200mm f4.0 continues to please.

Comments welcome.

Cheers,
frank 


"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -- 
Christopher Hitchens
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Re: PESO - Twins!

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Nice intimate image, Frank.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:42 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> The red-necked grebes have and exciting announcement: They're expecting, and 
> it's going to be twins:
>
>  http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/twins.html?m=1
>
> The last two years there was only one egg, this year two. In the seven or 
> eight years they've been putting the floating platform for the grebes to nest 
> on they have yet to have an egg hatch. Maybe this will be the year.
>
> Might have a little gallery in a few days if I have the time. Until then hope 
> you enjoy this one. It was handheld so I'm satisfied with the sharpness. That 
> M200mm f4.0 continues to please.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> frank
>
>
> "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -- 
> Christopher Hitchens
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Re: That Book

[Joseph McAllister]

Mark!

On Jul 11, 2012, at 00:15 , Joseph McAllister wrote:

> On Jul 8, 2012, at 22:11 , Tim Bray wrote:
> 
>> 21: Cathedral of Trees/Roberts. They’re having a conversation too
>> slow, graceful, and complex for us to follow.
> 
> I was always under the impression that trees were the vocal chords of the 
> wind.

Gonna have to MARK my own thought here. Few bother to open a Pentaxian msg 
anymore. Don't blame them. Don't contribute much photography. Most of my emails 
either insult or ramble on for 600 words or more. 

I like this. It came to me. Anyone know if I made this up, or am I quoting 
something caught in a crevasse in my mind.





Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com













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PESO - Twins!

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

The red-necked grebes have and exciting announcement: They're expecting, and 
it's going to be twins:

 http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/twins.html?m=1

The last two years there was only one egg, this year two. In the seven or eight 
years they've been putting the floating platform for the grebes to nest on they 
have yet to have an egg hatch. Maybe this will be the year.

Might have a little gallery in a few days if I have the time. Until then hope 
you enjoy this one. It was handheld so I'm satisfied with the sharpness. That 
M200mm f4.0 continues to please.

Comments welcome.

Cheers,
frank 


"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -- 
Christopher Hitchens
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Re: PESO: 'See Gulls'

[Joseph McAllister]

No matter where you place your head, they always seem to be looking at you!


On Jul 11, 2012, at 21:23 , kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

> Just a couple of Ring-billed Gull (Larus delawarensis) - I thought the 
> duplicated posture made this shot - what do you think?
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16083215




Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com













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Re: PESO - Next Stage...

[Rick Womer]

Thanks, Paul.  The final step is firing them in a huge brick kiln, which makes 
them turn red and become hard and strong--just as bricks should be!  No pix of 
that process, though, as it is done just once a year in the fall.

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Paul Stenquist 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: PESO - Next Stage...

I like the way you handled this with the figure in the background. I wonder how 
sturdy those bricks are. I would think they must be somewhat fragile.
Paul
On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:01 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

> ...after putting that squishy disgusting clay into wooden molds is to push 
> the bricks out of the mold and let them dry:
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16046936&size=lg
> 
> Comments appreciated!
> 
> Rick
> 
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Re: PESO - Next Stage...

[Paul Stenquist]

I like the way you handled this with the figure in the background. I wonder how 
sturdy those bricks are. I would think they must be somewhat fragile.
Paul
On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:01 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

> ...after putting that squishy disgusting clay into wooden molds is to push 
> the bricks out of the mold and let them dry:
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16046936&size=lg
> 
> Comments appreciated!
> 
> Rick
> 
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PESO - Next Stage...

[Rick Womer]

...after putting that squishy disgusting clay into wooden molds is to push the 
bricks out of the mold and let them dry:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16046936&size=lg

Comments appreciated!

Rick

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Re: OT: apple cinema display converter

[Paul Stenquist]

Yeah, it was a pisser. I looked into buying a new adapter. Apple doesn't make 
them any more, and used ones go for around $100 on ebay. My cinema display 
can't quite reach optimum brightness for my working conditions any more. It's 
where I park my photoshop menus and, when I'm writing, extra source docs, so 
it's shortcomings aren't critical, but  it's not going to get better. It's at 
least ten years old. So instead of a new adapter, I bought an inexpensive 
monitor to serve as the second screen (The iMac 27 panel is my main working 
screen, and it's very good.) I ordered an  NEC EA232WMI-BK MultiSync 23" IPS 
panel from Comp USA. PCMag gave it a good review and the price was only 
$264.99. 
Paul 
On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:40 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

> Sounds like your monitor wasn't properly house-trained.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> While I was working this afternoon, the power failed briefly. 
>> (Unfortunately, the blackout came while I was interviewing someone over the 
>> phone and typing notes.) But my iMac restarted without a problem and no 
>> apparent damage. However, my second monitor, an early Apple Cinema Display, 
>> hooked up with the Apple converter, did not come back on line. When I 
>> examined the converter, there was a puddle of fluid under it. I'm guessing 
>> there's a liquid cooled transformer in there that blew its top. I know that 
>> back in the day, transformer oil was dangerous stuff. I doubt that's true 
>> any more. I guess I'll take it to the genius bar and see if they'll replace 
>> it. I don't know if I still have a receipt, and it's probably three or four 
>> years old, but I would think it shouldn't fail like that. Of course, the 
>> geniuses probably won't agree.
>> Paul
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -bmw
> 
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[David Parsons]

Okay, that makes more sense.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
> David Parsons wrote:
>
>>What happens when you try to render the proprietary data in the
>>embedded file and a converter is not available?  It seems like you are
>>adding a layer of obfuscation for the sake of 'future proofing'.
>>
>>It would seem that converting to the actual open standard would be
>>safer if you were really concerned about file compatibility in the
>>future.
>
> The "include original raw format file" option adds the original *in
> addition to* the DNG raw data. So you get the best of both worlds in
> terms of compatibility (at the price of doubling the amount of disk
> space required).
>
> --
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Aloha Photographer Photoblog
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Re: OT: apple cinema display converter

[Bruce Walker]

Sounds like your monitor wasn't properly house-trained.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> While I was working this afternoon, the power failed briefly. (Unfortunately, 
> the blackout came while I was interviewing someone over the phone and typing 
> notes.) But my iMac restarted without a problem and no apparent damage. 
> However, my second monitor, an early Apple Cinema Display, hooked up with the 
> Apple converter, did not come back on line. When I examined the converter, 
> there was a puddle of fluid under it. I'm guessing there's a liquid cooled 
> transformer in there that blew its top. I know that back in the day, 
> transformer oil was dangerous stuff. I doubt that's true any more. I guess 
> I'll take it to the genius bar and see if they'll replace it. I don't know if 
> I still have a receipt, and it's probably three or four years old, but I 
> would think it shouldn't fail like that. Of course, the geniuses probably 
> won't agree.
> Paul
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Mark Roberts]

David Parsons wrote:

>What happens when you try to render the proprietary data in the
>embedded file and a converter is not available?  It seems like you are
>adding a layer of obfuscation for the sake of 'future proofing'.
>
>It would seem that converting to the actual open standard would be
>safer if you were really concerned about file compatibility in the
>future.

The "include original raw format file" option adds the original *in
addition to* the DNG raw data. So you get the best of both worlds in
terms of compatibility (at the price of doubling the amount of disk
space required).
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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OT: apple cinema display converter

[Paul Stenquist]

While I was working this afternoon, the power failed briefly. (Unfortunately, 
the blackout came while I was interviewing someone over the phone and typing 
notes.) But my iMac restarted without a problem and no apparent damage. 
However, my second monitor, an early Apple Cinema Display, hooked up with the 
Apple converter, did not come back on line. When I examined the converter, 
there was a puddle of fluid under it. I'm guessing there's a liquid cooled 
transformer in there that blew its top. I know that back in the day, 
transformer oil was dangerous stuff. I doubt that's true any more. I guess I'll 
take it to the genius bar and see if they'll replace it. I don't know if I 
still have a receipt, and it's probably three or four years old, but I would 
think it shouldn't fail like that. Of course, the geniuses probably won't 
agree. 
Paul
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[David Parsons]

What happens when you try to render the proprietary data in the
embedded file and a converter is not available?  It seems like you are
adding a layer of obfuscation for the sake of 'future proofing'.

It would seem that converting to the actual open standard would be
safer if you were really concerned about file compatibility in the
future.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:07 PM, George Sinos  wrote:
> The ASMP has had this website up for quite some time.  They seem to
> keep it up to date.  It's a good reference when you're trying to come
> up with a good workflow.
> There is a lot of information here.
>
> 
>
> Here's an interesting entry on DNG files.
>
> "The DNG format preserves the original raw sensor data just the same
> as the proprietary raw files. Nothing is left out. DNG is a safer
> archival container for several important reasons. The first is that it
> is a documented format. Its specification is openly published and how
> DNG files are constructed is openly shared with other software
> vendors.
>
> The second reason is that, unlike any other raw format, DNG contains a
> file verification tool known as a "hash" that can tell if the raw
> image data remains unchanged and uncorrupted. This hash only
> references the raw image data, so a DNG file can be processed an
> infinite number of times and the XMP instruction set(s) and embedded
> JPEG preview(s) can be redone an infinite number of times, but the
> underlying raw data does not change, so it can continue to be verified
> forever.
>
> One disadvantage of DNG has nothing to do with the format itself but
> has to do with the number of software vendors that choose to support
> DNG. Since not all do, DNG files cannot be processed in every possible
> raw file processor out there, especially the camera manufacturer's
> software.
>
> DNG can, however, contain even the proprietary raw file within the DNG
> container, so if this is a concern, you can choose to save your DNG
> files with the proprietary raw files embedded. The file verification
> hash will then also protect the proprietary raw data as well as the
> DNG raw image data.
>
> This, in fact, is currently the only way to verify proprietary raw
> files. DNG files can sometimes be smaller than proprietary raw since
> DNG uses a very efficient lossless compression scheme on the raw image
> data. DNG files can be the same size or slightly larger than
> proprietary raw if they contain full size JPEG previews. DNG files can
> be twice the size of proprietary raw if the proprietary raw file is
> optionally embedded."
>
> gs
>
> George Sinos
> 
> gsi...@gmail.com
> www.georgesphotos.net
> plus.georgesinos.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM, steve harley  wrote:
>>> on 2012-07-12 11:29 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
 It's up to the user to manage their original files.
>>
>> "Original files" means the masters used in the editing system, not
>> what's on the camera storage card. What's on the camera storage card
>> is irrelevant in the context of the editing system except as a source
>> for importing.
>>
>> The sensible way to manage your original files for use with Lightroom,
>> Aperture or any other image processing system is:
>>
>> - Create an image repository rooted in a single directory on a
>> per-volume basis.
>>
>> - Inside that repository, create subfolders structured by whatever
>> mnemonic is most sensible to you ... dates, categories, jobs, clients
>> ... whatever works.
>>
>> - Define a system of subfolders in the image repository germain to
>> your editing tools through which to migrate your work. For a
>> Photoshop/Bridge workflow, this is often a series of subfolders based
>> on a project or job such as "picks", "work in progress", "editing
>> completed", "output for use A", "output for use B", etc. For
>> applications like Aperture and Lightroom that include image management
>> functionality, you normally do not do this in the file system
>> directly, you use tools internal to the app for this, that is, a
>> defined progression using "collections", "albums", labeling, rating
>> stars, etc.
>>
>> - Backup and archive the original files by replicating the entire
>> image repository to an another storage location, preferably twice
>> (good data security policy is one working copy and two backup copies).
>> Keep it up to date, do it regularly ... automated
>> backup/synchronization tools are best for this. For apps like Aperture
>> and Lightroom, also include in the backup schema the .aplibrary file
>> (Aperture) and .LRDAT file (Lightroom). This preserves all the editing
>> and annotation work, and the history and state of all your files.
>>
>> It's the same four points to managing your original files, no matter
>> what image processing system and tools are used to do the work.
>> Whether a particular tool has automated part of the tasks for you or
>> not is a convenience.
>>
>> The und

Re: Unfortunate Subject Line

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

LOL!!

I saw the email but didn't actually read it, just deleted it as more
advertising spam.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:57 AM, George Sinos  wrote:
> I just received an email from KEH with the following subject line:
>
> "Now Paying Our Highest Prices EVER for Hot Digital Equipment!"
>
> I'm sure they meant "in high demand."
>
> gs
>
> George Sinos
> 
> gsi...@gmail.com
> www.georgesphotos.net
> plus.georgesinos.com
>
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-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:07 PM, George Sinos  wrote:
> The ASMP has had this website up for quite some time.  They seem to
> keep it up to date.  It's a good reference when you're trying to come
> up with a good workflow.
> There is a lot of information here.
>
> 

Interesting. Many of the ideas and practices are bit too cumbersome,
in my opinion.

> Here's an interesting entry on DNG files.
> ...
> DNG can, however, contain even the proprietary raw file within the DNG
> container, so if this is a concern, you can choose to save your DNG
> files with the proprietary raw files embedded. The file verification
> hash will then also protect the proprietary raw data as well as the
> DNG raw image data.

I found this to be an interesting detail, if you're concerned with or
need that sort of verification.

(All but one of my current cameras saves raw files as DNG directly in
camera now, so the question of whether to use DNG format or not is
moot.)

My standard import workflow from card to computer is to import with a
standardized rename into date ordered subfolders of the year I'm doing
the importing. The subfolders are named with a MMDD pattern to
indicate the year/month/day of the files they contain, the file names
are coded YYMMDD-{original file number} indicating capture date and
the particular camera sequence just as a unique breadcrumb in the file
system. I often rename master files again with a more expressive
filename once they've become part of a project.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Peso: The Pied Pipetter

[mike wilson]

On 12/07/2012 20:56, Steven Desjardins wrote:

We don't use the three way ones at all.  Virtually all of students get
the hang of the removable ones quickly and have more trouble getting
good results with the others.  Just our experience, of course.


Most of our students seem to be descendants of Hamfist the Barbarian.



On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, mike wilson  wrote:

On 12/07/2012 03:30, Steven Desjardins wrote:


Of course not by mouth.  She used a bulb to fill it beyond the line
and is slowly releasing it to the right amount.  The bulb is designed
to work when you press it against the pipette and not to be
permanently attached.



I've never got the hang of those rascals.  A plain or valved bulb seems to
work best for me.  The original pi-pumps were ok, too, but the copies are
just dreadful.




On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:51 PM, mike wilson 
wrote:


On 10/07/2012 23:48, Steven Desjardins wrote:



Can't tell if this made it in:



http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-JzZTJhn/0/XL/pipette-1-XL.jpg


--
No fixed Adobe



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Re: July PUG - Close Up/Macro is Up

[Brian Walters]

Quoting Ann Sanfedele :


I think Brian goes through his files and finds his best pictures, then
suggests the month topics depending on that - 'cause I like his best :-)




Not guilty.

but I like the idea.  I'll keep it in mind for 2013.


:-)>



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/





ann

On 7/11/2012 07:51, Brian Walters wrote:

G'day all

Not surprisingly, botany features prominently in the July gallery -
nothing wrong with that of course and there's some great work there.

Again, only one Open Gallery offering this month.

As usual, you'll find the gallery here:

http://pug.komkon.org/

(you may need to refresh your browser if you see the previous Gallery
there)


+

Next up is 'Water' - plenty of scope there!

Submit here:

http://pug.komkon.org/submit/

Submission Guidelines here:

http://pug.komkon.org/general/autosubmit.html


The main requirements are:

* Max. pixel dimensions: 800 x 800 pixels
* Max file size: 300k
* Third party equipment is acceptable provided either the camera body or
lens used is Pentax.
* If you embed a colour space in the image, it should be sRGB to ensure
that the image is displayed correctly on line.
* Nominal closing date for submissions: 31 May.







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RE: Van Fleteren

[Bob W]

> 
> Bob W  wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the link! They can price it as low as they like when it's
> > out of stock - it's a bit more on the UK site:
> 
> The original price was indeed around 50 euros. That's what I've paid in
> Brussels at the time.
> 
> If you ever come to Ostend, his fishers' portraits are hanging as a
> permanent display at the Vismijn, that's the building in the harbour
> where the fish is landed.
> 

The Fish Mine!

I certainly will.

B

> Ralf
> 
> --
> Ralf R. Radermacher  -  DL9KCG  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
> Blog   : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
> Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
> Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
> 
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RE: Peso: On Guard

[Bob W]

> On 12/07/2012 8:07 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> > http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-
> XL.jp
> > g
> >
> > A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit
> an
> > IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
> > Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
> > threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty
> from
> > both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
> > Church.  Here's a shot from my position.
> >
> Why has no one nailed the doors of that church shut with it's whack job
> congregation inside and set fire to the place?

All the people who would do such a thing are on the inside




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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 13:07 George Sinos wrote

The ASMP has had this website up for quite some time.  They seem to
keep it up to date.  It's a good reference when you're trying to come
up with a good workflow.
There is a lot of information here.




i found the "ingestion" section interesting and relevant to what i've been 
describing; it has lots of ideas for solving specific problems, however i think 
some of the major suggestions there are cumbersome, not clearly a best 
practice, specifically


* naming folders before downloading — really slows down the process if you 
follow the specific suggestion; i think there are simpler ways to make sure 
each card is downloaded


* renaming files — i would avoid this except in special circumstances; maybe 
pros would want to do it per-project, but even then i would suggest doing it at 
the tail end, only on the deliverables


* add metadata before backup - an option, but not necessarily best practice, 
and if metadata is to be kept in the catalog it's an unnecessary complication 
(prevents allowing the catalog tool to automate the backups)



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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 12:55 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM, steve harley  wrote:

on 2012-07-12 11:29 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

It's up to the user to manage their original files.


"Original files" means the masters used in the editing system, not
what's on the camera storage card.


okay, then what you called originals i called masters, no problem; what i 
wanted to get across is that LR or Aperture can do most of the work organizing 
the original (and backup) files; i didn't get that from "it's up to the user", 
so i thought it would be helpful for those wanting a simpler workflow, 
configuring fewer tools to get the job done; but it _is_ up to the user to 
configure LR or Aperture, maybe that's what you meant


there are complications and special cases of course; in addition to simplifying 
the workflow, one should gain enough knowledge to anticipate sources of trouble 
and prevent (or prepare for) them


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RE: Peso: On Guard

[Bob W]

> >> A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit
> >> an IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$
> from
> >> Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
> >> threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty
> >> from both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
> >> Church.  Here's a shot from my position.
> >>
> > Why has no one nailed the doors of that church shut with it's whack
> > job congregation inside and set fire to the place?
> 
> The protection of the First Amendment, like the rain, falls equally
> upon the just and the unjust ... except for hippie-socialist lefty
> radicals.
> 

Pinko bastards! String 'em up, that's what I say!

B


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RE: GESO - The Kids

[Bob W]

> 
> There´s always a danger that these pictures are too personal, but
> anyway: I managed to update the gallery and will try to work a little
> with the others too.
> http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/kids/kids.html
> 
> DagT

That's a superb portfolio. Very personal, but that makes it even better. The
pictures stand on their own and as a gallery they make each other stronger.
Very powerful stuff and a very distinct personal style.

B


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RE: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Bob W]

I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment about the commercial
practice of early Renaissance painting. You should think yourselves lucky
your clients don't specify that you grind the colours yourself and use
ultramarine at 2 florins the ounce on the Virgin's cloak, and ultramarine at
one florin the ounce on the rest of the picture, and definitely none of that
cheap German blue.

B

> From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
> Godfrey DiGiorgi
> 
> That's why I spend time to get clients to agree on what the
> *deliverables* will be, rather than how I achieve producing those
> deliverables. No client tells me how to set my camera, if they insist,
> I refuse the contract.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Mark Roberts
>  wrote:
> > You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the
> > "they" in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the
> > camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be
> > asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me,
> > I've been down that road. ;-)
> 
> Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com
> 
> Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
> See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto
> 
> Come to the reception and book-signing:
> ModernBook Gallery
> 49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
> August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm
> 
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[George Sinos]

The ASMP has had this website up for quite some time.  They seem to
keep it up to date.  It's a good reference when you're trying to come
up with a good workflow.
There is a lot of information here.



Here's an interesting entry on DNG files.

"The DNG format preserves the original raw sensor data just the same
as the proprietary raw files. Nothing is left out. DNG is a safer
archival container for several important reasons. The first is that it
is a documented format. Its specification is openly published and how
DNG files are constructed is openly shared with other software
vendors.

The second reason is that, unlike any other raw format, DNG contains a
file verification tool known as a "hash" that can tell if the raw
image data remains unchanged and uncorrupted. This hash only
references the raw image data, so a DNG file can be processed an
infinite number of times and the XMP instruction set(s) and embedded
JPEG preview(s) can be redone an infinite number of times, but the
underlying raw data does not change, so it can continue to be verified
forever.

One disadvantage of DNG has nothing to do with the format itself but
has to do with the number of software vendors that choose to support
DNG. Since not all do, DNG files cannot be processed in every possible
raw file processor out there, especially the camera manufacturer's
software.

DNG can, however, contain even the proprietary raw file within the DNG
container, so if this is a concern, you can choose to save your DNG
files with the proprietary raw files embedded. The file verification
hash will then also protect the proprietary raw data as well as the
DNG raw image data.

This, in fact, is currently the only way to verify proprietary raw
files. DNG files can sometimes be smaller than proprietary raw since
DNG uses a very efficient lossless compression scheme on the raw image
data. DNG files can be the same size or slightly larger than
proprietary raw if they contain full size JPEG previews. DNG files can
be twice the size of proprietary raw if the proprietary raw file is
optionally embedded."

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM, steve harley  wrote:
>> on 2012-07-12 11:29 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>>> It's up to the user to manage their original files.
>
> "Original files" means the masters used in the editing system, not
> what's on the camera storage card. What's on the camera storage card
> is irrelevant in the context of the editing system except as a source
> for importing.
>
> The sensible way to manage your original files for use with Lightroom,
> Aperture or any other image processing system is:
>
> - Create an image repository rooted in a single directory on a
> per-volume basis.
>
> - Inside that repository, create subfolders structured by whatever
> mnemonic is most sensible to you ... dates, categories, jobs, clients
> ... whatever works.
>
> - Define a system of subfolders in the image repository germain to
> your editing tools through which to migrate your work. For a
> Photoshop/Bridge workflow, this is often a series of subfolders based
> on a project or job such as "picks", "work in progress", "editing
> completed", "output for use A", "output for use B", etc. For
> applications like Aperture and Lightroom that include image management
> functionality, you normally do not do this in the file system
> directly, you use tools internal to the app for this, that is, a
> defined progression using "collections", "albums", labeling, rating
> stars, etc.
>
> - Backup and archive the original files by replicating the entire
> image repository to an another storage location, preferably twice
> (good data security policy is one working copy and two backup copies).
> Keep it up to date, do it regularly ... automated
> backup/synchronization tools are best for this. For apps like Aperture
> and Lightroom, also include in the backup schema the .aplibrary file
> (Aperture) and .LRDAT file (Lightroom). This preserves all the editing
> and annotation work, and the history and state of all your files.
>
> It's the same four points to managing your original files, no matter
> what image processing system and tools are used to do the work.
> Whether a particular tool has automated part of the tasks for you or
> not is a convenience.
>
> The underlying need is to learn the tools you want to use well, design
> a configuration and a set of policies to achieve what you want, and
> then use them consistently.
>
> Godfrey - godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>
> Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
> See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto
>
> Come to the reception and book-signing:
> ModernBook Gallery
> 49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
> August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm
>
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml

Re: Pentax K-30 tour

[Charles Robinson]

On Jul 11, 2012, at 17:56, Larry Colen wrote:

> Some of these might be good excuses to get together, drink beer and swap 
> lies,  and maybe even play with a 645D or K-30
> 
> http://www.pentaximaging.com/about/events/
> 
> It looks like 7/28 for San Francisco.
> 

Great!  Next Tuesday in Minneapolis.

I went to the K7 event a few years ago.  There were a total of about 25 people 
at the presentation, so the odds of winning the camera were VERY high (but I 
didn't, sadly).  Too bad they're not giving away a K30 at every presentation... 
that would really bring people in.

It will be interesting to see the K30, although really the K5 is next on my 
to-do list.  In a year or so.  I don't think I could afford whatever is going 
to succeed the K5 (but I'd be happy to be surprised)!

 -Charles

--
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Minneapolis, MN
http://charles.robinsontwins.org
http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson


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Re: Unfortunate Subject Line

[Steven Desjardins]

I hate to admit it but i laughed at that as well.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:57 PM, George Sinos  wrote:
> I just received an email from KEH with the following subject line:
>
> "Now Paying Our Highest Prices EVER for Hot Digital Equipment!"
>
> I'm sure they meant "in high demand."
>
> gs
>
> George Sinos
> 
> gsi...@gmail.com
> www.georgesphotos.net
> plus.georgesinos.com
>
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-- 
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Unfortunate Subject Line

[George Sinos]

I just received an email from KEH with the following subject line:

"Now Paying Our Highest Prices EVER for Hot Digital Equipment!"

I'm sure they meant "in high demand."

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com

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Re: Peso: The Pied Pipetter

[Steven Desjardins]

We don't use the three way ones at all.  Virtually all of students get
the hang of the removable ones quickly and have more trouble getting
good results with the others.  Just our experience, of course.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 03:30, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>>
>> Of course not by mouth.  She used a bulb to fill it beyond the line
>> and is slowly releasing it to the right amount.  The bulb is designed
>> to work when you press it against the pipette and not to be
>> permanently attached.
>
>
> I've never got the hang of those rascals.  A plain or valved bulb seems to
> work best for me.  The original pi-pumps were ok, too, but the copies are
> just dreadful.
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:51 PM, mike wilson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10/07/2012 23:48, Steven Desjardins wrote:


 Can't tell if this made it in:



 http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-JzZTJhn/0/XL/pipette-1-XL.jpg

 My research student hard at work.  Unfortunately, I didn't realize the
 Q's flash had gone off (and made shadows) until I opened the file.
 The flash will extend up but is still live when tucked it.  I've
 disabled it now ;-)

>>>
>>> Pipetting by mouth?  Fail.
>>>
>>> --
>>> No fixed Adobe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No fixed Adobe
>
>
>
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:12 AM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2012-07-12 11:29 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>> It's up to the user to manage their original files.

"Original files" means the masters used in the editing system, not
what's on the camera storage card. What's on the camera storage card
is irrelevant in the context of the editing system except as a source
for importing.

The sensible way to manage your original files for use with Lightroom,
Aperture or any other image processing system is:

- Create an image repository rooted in a single directory on a
per-volume basis.

- Inside that repository, create subfolders structured by whatever
mnemonic is most sensible to you ... dates, categories, jobs, clients
... whatever works.

- Define a system of subfolders in the image repository germain to
your editing tools through which to migrate your work. For a
Photoshop/Bridge workflow, this is often a series of subfolders based
on a project or job such as "picks", "work in progress", "editing
completed", "output for use A", "output for use B", etc. For
applications like Aperture and Lightroom that include image management
functionality, you normally do not do this in the file system
directly, you use tools internal to the app for this, that is, a
defined progression using "collections", "albums", labeling, rating
stars, etc.

- Backup and archive the original files by replicating the entire
image repository to an another storage location, preferably twice
(good data security policy is one working copy and two backup copies).
Keep it up to date, do it regularly ... automated
backup/synchronization tools are best for this. For apps like Aperture
and Lightroom, also include in the backup schema the .aplibrary file
(Aperture) and .LRDAT file (Lightroom). This preserves all the editing
and annotation work, and the history and state of all your files.

It's the same four points to managing your original files, no matter
what image processing system and tools are used to do the work.
Whether a particular tool has automated part of the tasks for you or
not is a convenience.

The underlying need is to learn the tools you want to use well, design
a configuration and a set of policies to achieve what you want, and
then use them consistently.

Godfrey - godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto

Come to the reception and book-signing:
ModernBook Gallery
49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 7:25 John Sessoms wrote

And many Lightroom evangelists seem to think its keywording/tagging
capabilities are an adequate substitute for actually having some kind of system
for organizing your files.


an image catalog means you don't need the mental load of coming up with the 
perfect set of "shoeboxes" in the file system (an impossible task, since 
natural organizational systems often are rarely strictly hierarchical); when 
using a catalog/database, i organize my _files_ once, when they come off the 
camera, and never have to organize them again; any further organization is of 
the _images_ in the catalog which is far more flexible


in a catalog, one image can belong in several different, changing categories 
yet there is no need to move or copy any files; i can also make several 
different renderings from one file without having to create multiple files


and if i do want to reorganize files (e.g. if i were importing a lot of 
material from someone else's messy archive) an image cataloging tool 
facilitates that, too


i guess your argument might be that a catalog encourages laziness, but as a 
programmer, i think laziness can work to one's benefit; with a little up-front 
effort, a cataloging tool can allow one to evolve an organizational system 
gradually with much less effort and no file-shuffling


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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 11:29 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:29 AM, steve harley  wrote:

as an interesting point of comparison, Aperture can copy image files into a
backup location on import; i do this, automatically creating a /MM/DD
folder hierarchy on both master and backup volumes (the latter over Gigabit
Ethernet)


Lightroom does the same with respect to the master files imported into
the catalog. It's an import convenience. And it can create a backup
second set as well ... but there it doesn't copy the import structure,
it just places them in a date ordered set of folders.


now that i've found LR's controls for that i see they are almost equivalent; 
Aperture can copy the original folder structure, though i never do that; it 
looks like LR can do that too; i just can't tell if LR's "destination" folder 
structure is also used for the "second copy" — if it is then you can 
automatically structure masters and backups the same, which is the primary 
benefit i was describing




It's up to the user to manage their original files.


for me the originals are on an SD card and get deleted eventually; in other 
words no management is necessary; the master is what's copied to my drive 
during import; LR can do this too, and i would recommend using the option to 
create a folder structure on import; sounds like you copy files to your drive 
prior to import, which i'd see as an extra step, but not harmful




Aperture also supports fully automated, managed files incorporated
into the .aplibrary sets. I have always disliked that ...


i totally agree; it's an option for people who don't want to think about files 
at all, but it makes it harder to recover and to divide your work onto several 
drives; it's worth noting that if you start using Aperture and let it do this 
by default, you can easily change your mind and have it move the files to a 
discrete folder hierarchy for you; as such, Aperture is also a good tool to 
extract files from the black hole that is iPhoto




I prefer to
manage my files myself, and have sophisticated backup and archiving
policies/systems that do it for me in an efficient and reliable way.


for me it's so simple to let Aperture do the bulk of it that i don't need much 
more except for the secondary backup system; i offer this not as a LR vs. 
Aperture debate, but to explore ways to get things done (file organization, 
backups) as simply as possible, which i assume will benefit folks like 
Christine; i just know Aperture so much better that i use it as example, and to 
help those who may not have invested in one or the other yet




I don't want to get into a huge Aperture vs Lightroom vs
Photoshop/Bridge debate here.


not debating, but the topic has evolved past Christine's immediate need; 
Aperture and Lightroom mostly do the same things, but how i read your comments 
led me to see a significant difference for those who want to achieve a simple 
workflow; turns out they aren't that different after all in this respect


i have tried to use Bridge in the past, and was a Photoshop professional in the 
early 90s, color-correcting, retouching and compositing photos for prepress; 
but i now use mostly Aperture and a bit of Lightroom; Photoshop for occasional 
panoramas and focus-stacking (Aperture works well with Photoshop); from a 
workflow perspective i think LR and Aperture offer very similar benefits; they 
differ more in interface details and non-organizational features, but there's 
no obvious best choice; if nothing else, i think Lightroom has a brighter future



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Re: Rating a large number of photos in lightoom

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> I was starting to play with that and discovered a couple of interesting 
> things.
>
> If you start preview (propeller-enter from library) it will first start 
> processing previews for the slide show.  This takes a long time, but it 
> stores them on disk or something because if you stop the processing and come 
> back, it picks up where it left off.
>
> Once it has processed the slideshow previews, then skipping forward from 
> frame to frame happens nearly instantaneously, even though that doesn't 
> happen when processing normal previews.

Yes. They are stored in the catalog folder as part of the "{catalog
name} Previews.lrdata" entity (a directory on Windows, a file/folder
bundle on OS X). The Slide Show module manages its previews and
processing chain somewhat differently from the Library module, and
both are separate from the Develop module preview handling as well.

Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com

Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto

Come to the reception and book-signing:
ModernBook Gallery
49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file?

Raw files contains sensor data, metadata describing camera settings
and image attributes, and optionally a JPEG preview. Colorspace
profile settings affect the specifics in the metadata and the
rendering of a JPEG preview. They do not affect the contents of the
sensor data.

The only raw processors which honor the camera settings like
colorspace in raw file metadata are the ones provided by the camera
manufacturer. Lightroom and Camera Raw do not.

Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com

Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto

Come to the reception and book-signing:
ModernBook Gallery
49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

That's why I spend time to get clients to agree on what the
*deliverables* will be, rather than how I achieve producing those
deliverables. No client tells me how to set my camera, if they insist,
I refuse the contract.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
> You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the
> "they" in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the
> camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be
> asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me,
> I've been down that road. ;-)

Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com

Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto

Come to the reception and book-signing:
ModernBook Gallery
49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:29 AM, steve harley  wrote:
> as an interesting point of comparison, Aperture can copy image files into a
> backup location on import; i do this, automatically creating a /MM/DD
> folder hierarchy on both master and backup volumes (the latter over Gigabit
> Ethernet)

Lightroom does the same with respect to the master files imported into
the catalog. It's an import convenience. And it can create a backup
second set as well ... but there it doesn't copy the import structure,
it just places them in a date ordered set of folders.

It's up to the user to manage their original files.

Aperture also supports fully automated, managed files incorporated
into the .aplibrary sets. I have always disliked that ... I prefer to
manage my files myself, and have sophisticated backup and archiving
policies/systems that do it for me in an efficient and reliable way.

I don't want to get into a huge Aperture vs Lightroom vs
Photoshop/Bridge debate here. This thread should be about helping
Christine recover her work and get her system configured properly to
minimize problems in the future, using her choice of tools.

I work with Lightroom, Aperture, and Photoshop ... as well as several
other image processing software tools. I really don't care which ones
other people choose to use.

Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com

Announcing "Ways Together" .. my new photo book!
See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto

Come to the reception and book-signing:
ModernBook Gallery
49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA
August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm

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Re: Peso's Back yard habitat

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Nice images, but it is quite unwise to stick one's fingers that close
to any wild animal, even a chipmunk.  Rabies and other nasty diseases
can result.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Some from the past few mornings in the brooks wildlife sanctuary:
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086334
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086338
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086340
>
> K-5 DA F 50-200 AF 360 fill flash at -1.0
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
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Re: Pentax K-30 tour

[Joseph McAllister]

I've got less than 24 hours before I have to be in Seattle to win the Optio, 
pocket the "high end glass" and toss the 645D to a compatriot on the sidewalk. 
What a coup! 

Can't forget the "t" shirt either. Be there early. They rarely have any "t"s 
larger than 2x, a few of those. And I'm a 3x kinda guy.

Thanks Larry!


On Jul 11, 2012, at 15:56 , Larry Colen wrote:

> Some of these might be good excuses to get together, drink beer and swap 
> lies,  and maybe even play with a 645D or K-30
> 
> http://www.pentaximaging.com/about/events/


It's not that life is too short, it's that you're dead for so long..
— Anon

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com










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Re: OT - Fuji X10 full DP Review

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 10:42 John Sessoms wrote

WTF does pocketable matter? I have two thoughts on it.


it exists purely for buzzword-compliance



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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Charles Robinson]

On Jul 11, 2012, at 13:19, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> This thread has reinforced my confidence in a system that depends on Bridge, 
> easily searchable file names and dates, and PhotoShop. Every time I've 
> considered switching to Lightroom, discussions such as this stop me in my 
> tracks. 
> 

It sounds tricky, but it's so damned simple when you get used to it.  Bridge is 
ugly/nasty and I'm glad I have nothing to do with it anymore. 

I just spent 15 minutes digging through over 70,000 images looking for pictures 
of a cousin of mine who's gone missing and the family wanted something for the 
flier.  Lightroom made in an absolute piece of cake to locate photos, make a 
virtual copy, crop so just his face shows, and export the necessary images for 
use.  

While Godfrey's instructions may look intimidating, the actual execution of the 
"hey Lightroom, now my files are over here" instructions to LR is dead simple.

 -Charles

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Re: Peso: On Guard

[John Sessoms]

From: William Robb


On 12/07/2012 8:07 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-XL.jpg

A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit an
IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty from
both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
Church.  Here's a shot from my position.


Why has no one nailed the doors of that church shut with it's whack job
congregation inside and set fire to the place?


The protection of the First Amendment, like the rain, falls equally upon 
the just and the unjust ... except for hippie-socialist lefty radicals.


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Re: OT - Fuji X10 full DP Review

[John Sessoms]

From: William Robb


On 12/07/2012 4:35 AM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

In case anyone's interested. Post-white-orb full review of the Fuji X10

Note that the review derides it for not being 'pocketable', yet it
easily fits in my jacket pocket, and I can get it in the back pocket of
my Levi 501s so wtf?



People deride the Q for not being "pocketable as well".


Is that a camera in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

WTF does pocketable matter? I have two thoughts on it.

1. You can't take photos with it while it's in your pocket.
2. If it won't fit, buy a bigger pocket.

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re: Peso: On Guard

[John Sessoms]

From: Steven Desjardins


http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-XL.jpg

A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit an
IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty from
both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
Church.  Here's a shot from my position.


The Westboro thugs will get what they deserve bye and bye.

"That Awkward moment when you wake up and find you're in hell because 
you were a bigoted intolerant jackass who used religion as your excuse 
to be a spiteful hateful ASSHOLE"


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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-11 19:38 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

Lightroom does no backup of your image files at all, that is
completely up to the user to set up.


as an interesting point of comparison, Aperture can copy image files into a 
backup location on import; i do this, automatically creating a /MM/DD 
folder hierarchy on both master and backup volumes (the latter over Gigabit 
Ethernet)


e.g. originals in ~/Pictures/2012/07/11
and backups in [network drive]/aperture/backups/2012/07/11

as i think is clear from the discussion, keeping backups in the same 
hierarchical structure facilitates recovery in the loss of a disk, or simply 
when moving everything to a new computer, as i've done easily with Aperture; i 
choose a structure which never needs to change; all subsequent organization is 
done in the catalog


Aperture relinks slightly differently from Lightroom — in Aperture you choose 
an image to relink and find the corresponding file in its new location, then it 
will relink all the other files based on its knowledge of the hierarchy, 
working up the folder hierarchy as necessary


the Aperture catalog doesn't auto-backup — wish it did — but it's structured so 
that syncing changes via Time Machine is fairly efficient



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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[steve harley]

on 2012-07-12 7:59 Matthew Hunt wrote

If you don't like the Lightroom workflow at all, that's a different
matter. I only meant "the best of both worlds" in the sense of getting
Lightroom's cataloging operations, while maintaining your preferred
file structure.


i think he could maintain most or all of his operational workflow in Lightroom 
too



(Also: I have no idea what you mean by "cutesy names" or "brilliance".
I don't have Ps or ACR, but my understanding is that ACR and Lightroom
use pretty much the same names for their processing controls.)


every term of art starts life as a cutesy name, often once we get used to it we 
feel like it's a perfectly descriptive name





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Re: Peso's Back yard habitat

[Jack Davis]

Cute "Alvin." I've noticed that even in the wild, Chipmunks may be hand fed 
and indulge in it almost without hesitation. When we went camping, some years 
back, our two young daughters spent much of their time giggling while serving 
them many a palm full of goodies. 
They must realize they are protected by being so cute. ;-)
 Yes, we cautioned them many times, not to try picking them up.

Jack Davis
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/jackdavis
http://www.photolightimages.com/


- Original Message -
From: David J Brooks 
To: Pentax Discuss ; Petch Dianne ; 
Barbara Brooks ; Darryl Button ; 
butt...@mmm.ca; Harry Bolton 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:43 AM
Subject: Peso's Back yard habitat

Some from the past few mornings in the brooks wildlife sanctuary:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086334

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086338

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086340

K-5 DA F 50-200 AF 360 fill flash at -1.0

Dave

-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
http://www.caughtinmotion.com/
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[Bob Sullivan]

Dave,
Love the size of the hooves.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:31 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
> Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.
>
> Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
> short list for the fair photo competition.
>
> Blair and team:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792
>
> Blair and team in B&W:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794
>
> Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.
>
> D2h and or D200
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
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re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[Don Guthrie]

The viewpoint give the photo drama and intensity. I like the B&W version 
as it seems more timeless. Maybe I'm just in B&W mode today.










Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 07:31:55 -0400
From: David J Brooks 
To: Pentax Discuss , Petch Dianne
, Barbara Brooks , 
Darryl
Button , butt...@mmm.ca, Harry Bolton

Subject: Peso's 2012 plowing demo
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.

Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
short list for the fair photo competition.

Blair and team:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792

Blair and team in B&W:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794

Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.

D2h and or D200

Dave

-- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com 
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada



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Re: Peso's Back yard habitat

[Bob Sullivan]

Good photos, but 'Please Don't Feed The Wildlife.'  Regards,  Bob S.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Some from the past few mornings in the brooks wildlife sanctuary:
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086334
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086338
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086340
>
> K-5 DA F 50-200 AF 360 fill flash at -1.0
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
> --
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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[George Sinos]

Larry -

For your purposes, it will not effect the raw data in the image.  It
will effect the embedded jpg preview image that you see on the camera
LCD screen.  So any histogram you see on the back of the camera will
also be effected because it is generated from the embedded jpeg.  For
all practical purposes it won't make any difference.

You can generate jpgs later in any color space you want.  They will
all be generated from the original unaffected raw data.

I doubt that the screen on the back of your camera is good enough to
show any significant differences between the color spaces.  So, if you
use the histogram to make exposure adjustments, theoretically, there
may be a tiny difference in the feedback it gives you.

If you're submitting raw files - set the camera color space to
adobeRGB so the are tagged correctly.

If you're submitting jpgs, the camera setting won't make any practical
difference.  Just make sure when you generate the jpgs, set ACR or
Lightroom or whatever you use for AdobeRGB.

There's a lot of over-thinking going on in this thread.  Most of it is
technically correct and practically insignificant.

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:31 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of
>> the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of
>> whatever format.
>
> Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file?
>
>>
>> What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced
>> with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera
>> settings when it comes to raw capture.
>
> At this point, I certainly am.
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>> For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, 
>>> adobe RGB.
>>> My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in 
>>> converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor.
>>> Am I more confused than usual?
>>
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
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> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
>
>
>
>
>
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re: PESO - Yuck!

[Don Guthrie]

At least she is not cleaning out the stables. Nice tones in the subject 
wonder how it would look in B&W or toned.






Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Womer 
To: Pentax List 
Subject: PESO - Yuck!
Message-ID:
<1342054513.38717.yahoomail...@web162103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Still in Williamsburg, at the brickyard where clay and water are being mixed:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16046935

(K-5, DA 16-45)

Comments appreciated!

Rick


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re PESO - Cousin Don

[Don Guthrie]

Nice portrait. The flag always makes an eye-catching background and 
bearded faces likewise. Oh and the guy has a great name.






Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:38:22 -0400
From: Paul Stenquist 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: PESO - Cousin Don
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Cousin Don, a Michigan farmer and farmers market entrepreneur.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16082232




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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:

> Matthew Hunt wrote:
> 
>> I don't have Ps or ACR, but my understanding is that ACR and Lightroom
>> use pretty much the same names for their processing controls.)
> 
> That is correct: The adjustments in Lightroom and ACR are identical
> (and identically named).
> Lightroom is just a bit more conducive to working with large volumes
> of photographs.
> 
Good to know that Adobe has come to its senses. Perhaps I'll try Lightroom 
again one of these days.
Paul
> -- 
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Larry Colen]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:31 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of
> the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of
> whatever format.

Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file?

> 
> What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced
> with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera
> settings when it comes to raw capture.

At this point, I certainly am.

> 
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, 
>> adobe RGB.
>> My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in 
>> converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor.
>> Am I more confused than usual?
> 
> -- 
> Godfrey
>  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
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--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[David J Brooks]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM,   wrote:
> I like em both but I do wish the drivers face was in full view.

So would i Ken, but its a challenge to get get partials, keep the walk
abouts out of the shot and the parked cars.:-).

Dave
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
>
> - Original Message - From: "David J Brooks" 
>
> Subject: Peso's 2012 plowing demo
>
>
>> Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
>> Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.
>>
>> Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
>> short list for the fair photo competition.
>>
>> Blair and team:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792
>>
>> Blair and team in B&W:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794
>>
>> Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.
>>
>> D2h and or D200
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
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Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Peso: The Pied Pipetter

[mike wilson]

On 12/07/2012 03:30, Steven Desjardins wrote:

Of course not by mouth.  She used a bulb to fill it beyond the line
and is slowly releasing it to the right amount.  The bulb is designed
to work when you press it against the pipette and not to be
permanently attached.


I've never got the hang of those rascals.  A plain or valved bulb seems 
to work best for me.  The original pi-pumps were ok, too, but the copies 
are just dreadful.




On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:51 PM, mike wilson  wrote:

On 10/07/2012 23:48, Steven Desjardins wrote:


Can't tell if this made it in:


http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-JzZTJhn/0/XL/pipette-1-XL.jpg

My research student hard at work.  Unfortunately, I didn't realize the
Q's flash had gone off (and made shadows) until I opened the file.
The flash will extend up but is still live when tucked it.  I've
disabled it now ;-)



Pipetting by mouth?  Fail.

--
No fixed Adobe




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No fixed Adobe



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Peso's Back yard habitat

[David J Brooks]

Some from the past few mornings in the brooks wildlife sanctuary:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086334

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086338

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16086340

K-5 DA F 50-200 AF 360 fill flash at -1.0

Dave

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www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Mark Roberts]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

>On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, 
>> adobe RGB.
>> My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in 
>> converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor.
>> Am I more confused than usual?
>
>Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of
>the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of
>whatever format.
>
>What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced
>with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera
>settings when it comes to raw capture.

You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the
"they" in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the
camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be
asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me,
I've been down that road. ;-)

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Peso: On Guard

[Steven Desjardins]

I'm sure that thought has occurred to many.  As with many things like
that, the positive is that many folks come out to support the
families.  All I could think was that you know you're hated when you
mange to unite two colleges, the police, the army, a biker group and
the Catholic Church against you.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:26 AM, William Robb
 wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 8:07 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>>
>> http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-XL.jpg
>>
>> A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit an
>> IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
>> Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
>> threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty from
>> both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
>> Church.  Here's a shot from my position.
>>
> Why has no one nailed the doors of that church shut with it's whack job
> congregation inside and set fire to the place?
>
> --
>
> William Robb
>
>
>
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Steve Desjardins

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Mark Roberts]

Matthew Hunt wrote:

>I don't have Ps or ACR, but my understanding is that ACR and Lightroom
>use pretty much the same names for their processing controls.)

That is correct: The adjustments in Lightroom and ACR are identical
(and identically named).
Lightroom is just a bit more conducive to working with large volumes
of photographs.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[George Sinos]

Paul - other than differences in screen layout, ACR and the Lightroom
develop module are identical. gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Paul Stenquist
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> ACR's function names are different and generally more descriptive of what 
>>> is happening, IMO. The midrange brightness slider, for example, is merely 
>>> "brightness."   Color temperature is "temperature." Highlight recovery is 
>>> "Recovrery." Fill light is ""fill light." Saturation is "saturation." Then 
>>> there's the graphic tone curve with sliders for highlights, lights, darks, 
>>> and shadows. Plus, I was heavily into RAW conversion by the time Lightroom 
>>> emerged, and really wedded to the ACR workflow. If I had started with 
>>> Lightroom, it might have pleased me more.
>>
>> Those are exactly what the controls were called in LR3 as well. That's
>> why I was confused.  Maybe there was "Brilliance" in an earlier
>> version--I started with LR3--but I couldn't find any reference to it
>> with Google.
>>
>> The controls have changed for PV2012 in LR4 (no more Fill Light, for
>> example), but I think ACR 7 changed in the same ways.
>>
>
> The last version of Lightroom that I tried was LR2, so I wouldn't know how it 
> has progressed. If it's more like ACR, that's a good thing IMO. I never 
> understood why Adobe would design them with different key words.
> Paul
>
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Paul Stenquist
>  wrote:
> 
>> ACR's function names are different and generally more descriptive of what is 
>> happening, IMO. The midrange brightness slider, for example, is merely 
>> "brightness."   Color temperature is "temperature." Highlight recovery is 
>> "Recovrery." Fill light is ""fill light." Saturation is "saturation." Then 
>> there's the graphic tone curve with sliders for highlights, lights, darks, 
>> and shadows. Plus, I was heavily into RAW conversion by the time Lightroom 
>> emerged, and really wedded to the ACR workflow. If I had started with 
>> Lightroom, it might have pleased me more.
> 
> Those are exactly what the controls were called in LR3 as well. That's
> why I was confused.  Maybe there was "Brilliance" in an earlier
> version--I started with LR3--but I couldn't find any reference to it
> with Google.
> 
> The controls have changed for PV2012 in LR4 (no more Fill Light, for
> example), but I think ACR 7 changed in the same ways.
> 

The last version of Lightroom that I tried was LR2, so I wouldn't know how it 
has progressed. If it's more like ACR, that's a good thing IMO. I never 
understood why Adobe would design them with different key words.
Paul

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Re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[kwaller]

I like em both but I do wish the drivers face was in full view.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "David J Brooks" 

Subject: Peso's 2012 plowing demo



Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.

Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
short list for the fair photo competition.

Blair and team:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792

Blair and team in B&W:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794

Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.

D2h and or D200

Dave

--
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada



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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of
the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of
whatever format.

What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced
with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera
settings when it comes to raw capture.

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, 
> adobe RGB.
> My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in 
> converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor.
> Am I more confused than usual?

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Paul Stenquist
 wrote:

> ACR's function names are different and generally more descriptive of what is 
> happening, IMO. The midrange brightness slider, for example, is merely 
> "brightness."   Color temperature is "temperature." Highlight recovery is 
> "Recovrery." Fill light is ""fill light." Saturation is "saturation." Then 
> there's the graphic tone curve with sliders for highlights, lights, darks, 
> and shadows. Plus, I was heavily into RAW conversion by the time Lightroom 
> emerged, and really wedded to the ACR workflow. If I had started with 
> Lightroom, it might have pleased me more.

Those are exactly what the controls were called in LR3 as well. That's
why I was confused.  Maybe there was "Brilliance" in an earlier
version--I started with LR3--but I couldn't find any reference to it
with Google.

The controls have changed for PV2012 in LR4 (no more Fill Light, for
example), but I think ACR 7 changed in the same ways.

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Same faciliites are in Lightroom, Paul. Just a different interface.
And more cataloging and data management functions. But I don't care at
all whether you like or want to learn Lightroom vs PS vs Aperture or
any other software. I'm just trying to help Christine recover her
work, and others to become more efficient in their use of the tools
they're using.

I like the fact that I can browse and annotate all 300,000 photos in
my library even when only 50,000 of them are on a live, mounted
volume. Or carry a slide show to a talk without having to have the
original files on hand. And go back and forth between my book layout
and my image adjustment tools seamlessly. Or output an arbitrary
collection of archive masters and client outputs simultaneously with
the press of a button. Etc etc. None of which may matter to you, but
which does matter to me.

LR has great value for me, and I find I hardly find any use for PS
anymore. So what? I don't care, and I don't expect anyone else cares,
what software I use to do my work as long as my photos come out the
way I want them to and the work that people ask me to do is done. :-)

G

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>
> Ah, but in my opinion, that's not the best of both worlds. I' ve tried 
> lightroom and just don't like the conversion workflow or the structured 
> routines. I don't like the cutesy names, like "brilliance" for conversion 
> factors. I'm very comfortable with ACR and the way it allows me to adjust 
> every point on the histo curve in conversion. It saves my RAW result, but I 
> can return to the default at any time. And because I'm almost always do some 
> work in PS. I like that it opens the converted pic in PS. I usually sharpen 
> in PS and frequently do a bit of cloning as well and sometimes adjust the 
> vertical alignment. Using keystrokes, it can be done in a matter of seconds. 
> I can then save a tiff as either 16 bit or 8 bit and a web-sized jpeg. Using 
> "save for web," PS automatically changes the color space to SRGB and saves as 
> a highest quality jpeg. All in the same folder as the RAW -- a folder that is 
> arranged chronologically in bridge and on a drive dedicated to a specific 
> range of dates. BTW, while previewing shots in Bridge, I don't have to wait 
> for them to load or run a slide show. I can display them as large as a I want 
> and just scroll through the folder. A click opens any pic in ACR, almost 
> instantaneously. I don't think I'm missing a thing.


-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Peso: On Guard

[William Robb]

On 12/07/2012 8:07 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-XL.jpg

A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit an
IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty from
both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
Church.  Here's a shot from my position.

Why has no one nailed the doors of that church shut with it's whack job 
congregation inside and set fire to the place?


--

William Robb



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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:59 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
> 
>> Ah, but in my opinion, that's not the best of both worlds. I' ve tried 
>> lightroom and just don't like the conversion workflow or the structured 
>> routines. I don't like the cutesy names, like "brilliance" for conversion 
>> factors.
> 
> If you don't like the Lightroom workflow at all, that's a different
> matter. I only meant "the best of both worlds" in the sense of getting
> Lightroom's cataloging operations, while maintaining your preferred
> file structure.
> 
> (Also: I have no idea what you mean by "cutesy names" or "brilliance".
> I don't have Ps or ACR, but my understanding is that ACR and Lightroom
> use pretty much the same names for their processing controls.)
> 

ACR's function names are different and generally more descriptive of what is 
happening, IMO. The midrange brightness slider, for example, is merely 
"brightness."   Color temperature is "temperature." Highlight recovery is 
"Recovrery." Fill light is ""fill light." Saturation is "saturation." Then 
there's the graphic tone curve with sliders for highlights, lights, darks, and 
shadows. Plus, I was heavily into RAW conversion by the time Lightroom emerged, 
and really wedded to the ACR workflow. If I had started with Lightroom, it 
might have pleased me more.
Paul

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Re: OT - Fuji X10 full DP Review

[Steven Desjardins]

The pocket-able thing is almost pro forma these days.  Compact doesn't
mean pocket-able.  Actually, I can can fit the Q with the 8.5 mm lens
into my front "loose jeans" pocket, but it does have that "Is that a
Pentax in your pocket or are you happy to see me" look.  A pretty good
review otherwise.  The lack of good RAW processing is really
frustrating since you know there's some good data in there.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:15 AM, William Robb
 wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 4:35 AM, Steve Cottrell wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone's interested. Post-white-orb full review of the Fuji X10
>>
>> Note that the review derides it for not being 'pocketable', yet it
>> easily fits in my jacket pocket, and I can get it in the back pocket of
>> my Levi 501s so wtf?
>>
>
> People deride the Q for not being "pocketable as well".
>
> --
>
> William Robb
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: OT - Fuji X10 full DP Review

[William Robb]

On 12/07/2012 4:35 AM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

In case anyone's interested. Post-white-orb full review of the Fuji X10

Note that the review derides it for not being 'pocketable', yet it
easily fits in my jacket pocket, and I can get it in the back pocket of
my Levi 501s so wtf?



People deride the Q for not being "pocketable as well".

--

William Robb



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Re: A photographer whose work is Blowing Me Away...

[Steven Desjardins]

Lovely.  They have an element of the abstract but a clear subject.  I
understand her point about not using PS.  For some photographer, the
discipline of a particular procedure grounds their work in some ways
and lets their imagination work in other ways.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Darren Addy
>
>
>> http://1x.com/photo/19074
>>
>> Ursula I Abresch explains her technique (for the image linked above,
>> if not many others)...
>>
>> "No. It is making two images in camera (that is, if you have a camera
>> that allows you to do so). You set the camera to double (or more
>> exposures if you wish), then make the two images and they're combined
>> in camera into one file. You could also do it in PS, however, I prefer
>> the more "natural" results you get doing it in camera. PS is a bit too
>> controlled an environment for my taste, in general. Fernand calls it
>> the defocusing technique. I started doing this well before coming to
>> 1X and meeting Fernand, based on work by Freeman Patterson. I believe
>> there are probably a number of names for this technique."
>>
>> That blows me away even more, that she is doing it in camera.
>
>
> Sounds like Tony Sweet.
>
>
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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:

> AWB changes the WB every time you move the camera. Every frame requires a
> different correction.
>
> I just set it on daylight so it's consistently wrong by the same amount for
> every frame. That way I can batch process the corrections.

In Lightroom, once you determine the correct WB for one image, you can
apply the same WB to every other image. It doesn't matter what WB the
Auto WB picked for the other images. (In other words, applying the WB
sets the WB in an absolute sense--not as a relative adjustment to the
"as-shot" WB.) I would think ACR works the same way, but I don't know.

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Peso: On Guard

[Steven Desjardins]

http://drd1135.smugmug.com/Photography/pdml/i-qzPD8QV/0/XL/guard-XL.jpg

A young solider from Lexington dies about two weeks ago (Humvee hit an
IED in Afghanistan)  and was buried on Tuesday.  Those B@#$%$ from
Westboro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church)
threatened to come, so the Patriot Guard and students and faculty from
both colleges came to establish a perimeter around the Catholic
Church.  Here's a shot from my position.

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[John Sessoms]

From: "Peter Loveday"


If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor & "associated
hardware/software",
what does setting the color space on the camera do?


It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg.


That is correct.


Indeed.

However... theoretically,  there have been sporadic reports that the white
balance setting actually affects gain adjustments to channels pre-ADC on
various camera models, including some Pentax ones (amongst others).

If this is indeed true, then this implies that the white balance setting can
affect can cause changes to raw captured data.  I imagine Auto WB would not
do this, only specific settings, but I'm not really sure what was found to
be the case.

Anyway, not something I've ever really bothered about personally, but the
implication is that on certain camera models, in certain WB settings and
shooting situations, you may be able to get better captured RAW results with
specific WB settings.  But without anything concrete, it's more or less
guesswork.

Bottom line: shoot RAW, ignore WB, take photos :)


AWB changes the WB every time you move the camera. Every frame requires 
a different correction.


I just set it on daylight so it's consistently wrong by the same amount 
for every frame. That way I can batch process the corrections.


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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

> Ah, but in my opinion, that's not the best of both worlds. I' ve tried 
> lightroom and just don't like the conversion workflow or the structured 
> routines. I don't like the cutesy names, like "brilliance" for conversion 
> factors.

If you don't like the Lightroom workflow at all, that's a different
matter. I only meant "the best of both worlds" in the sense of getting
Lightroom's cataloging operations, while maintaining your preferred
file structure.

(Also: I have no idea what you mean by "cutesy names" or "brilliance".
I don't have Ps or ACR, but my understanding is that ACR and Lightroom
use pretty much the same names for their processing controls.)

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Re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[Daniel J. Matyola]

A dynamic and compelling image.  I like the dust stirred up by the
horses hooves.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:31 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
> Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.
>
> Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
> short list for the fair photo competition.
>
> Blair and team:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792
>
> Blair and team in B&W:
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794
>
> Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.
>
> D2h and or D200
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
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Re: Galia PESO #29 - Mummy

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Interesting image, and well executed.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:13 AM, knarftheria...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> Brilliant!
>
> cheers,
> frank
>
> "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -- 
> Christopher Hitchens
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: Boris Liberman 
> Sent: July 11, 2012 7/11/12
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Galia PESO #29 - Mummy
>
> Hi!
>
> http://pentax-ways.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/peso-2012-29-mummy.html
>
> No dad was involved in making this image. I did upload it, that's all.
>
> Be brutal and honest.
>
> Boris
>
> P.S. This is a re-sent message.
>
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Re: PESO - from the choir loft

[George Sinos]

When it's all said and done, anything that's used by Lightroom/PS to
automatically straighten "the horizon" depends on that thing actually
being plumb or level.

If the photo wasn't taken square to the reference object the tool
won't give a result that looks right.  That includes using the hanging
lamp as a plumb bob.  The photo was taken so far away from the altars
that you would think those small errors wouldn't be noticed, but they
are.  If they can be seen on the screen they will be much more obvious
in a print.

In the end, I just need to rotate it a little until it looks right.

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:57 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: George Sinos
>
>
>> Darren
>>
>> I think its off a bit too.  Rotated just slightly counter-clockwise.
>>
>> There are a couple of things that are driving me crazy.
>>
>> I was trying to level the image by drawing a line from the extreme
>> ends of the back row of pews.  After a couple of tries I figured out
>> that the pews on either side of the aisle don't line up.  The pews on
>> the left are offset several inches from the pews on the right.  Duh! I
>> should have seen that right away.
>>
>> I'm beginning to suspect that the decorative work above the columns
>> isn't exactly equal on both sides either.
>>
>> The only thing I think I can trust is the lamp hanging from the center
>> of the Apse painting.  It's a natural plumb bob.  You can't quite see
>> it in this photo. Follow the link in the article to the full size
>> version on my Smugmug site.  When you switch to the full resolution
>> version you can see the vertical line of the cable is just slightly
>> rotated counter-clockwise.
>>
>> It'll be right in the final version, but I'll probably need to get
>> another dose of patience before then.
>
>
> The railing at the front should be level. Why not use it to align the image?
>
>
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Re: PESO: 'See Gulls'

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Good composition;  it works well.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:23 AM,   wrote:
> Just a couple of Ring-billed Gull (Larus delawarensis) - I thought the
> duplicated posture made this shot - what do you think?
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16083215
>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
>
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Re: GESO - The Kids

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I think it is a great gallery.

Some are personal, some are quite abstract, many are stunning.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:55 AM, DagT  wrote:
> There´s always a danger that these pictures are too personal, but anyway: I 
> managed to update the gallery and will try to work a little with the others 
> too.
> http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/kids/kids.html
>
> DagT
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Paul Stenquist]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:49 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:43 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> 
>> Apples & oranges it seems to me.
>> 
>> Paul has a system for filing his photos & you have a tool for searching for
>> your photos without necessarily caring where they're filed.
> 
> The point is that he could continue to file his photos exactly as he
> does now, and use Lightroom, and get the best of both worlds.

Ah, but in my opinion, that's not the best of both worlds. I' ve tried 
lightroom and just don't like the conversion workflow or the structured 
routines. I don't like the cutesy names, like "brilliance" for conversion 
factors. I'm very comfortable with ACR and the way it allows me to adjust every 
point on the histo curve in conversion. It saves my RAW result, but I can 
return to the default at any time. And because I'm almost always do some work 
in PS. I like that it opens the converted pic in PS. I usually sharpen in PS 
and frequently do a bit of cloning as well and sometimes adjust the vertical 
alignment. Using keystrokes, it can be done in a matter of seconds. I can then 
save a tiff as either 16 bit or 8 bit and a web-sized jpeg. Using "save for 
web," PS automatically changes the color space to SRGB and saves as a highest 
quality jpeg. All in the same folder as the RAW -- a folder that is arranged 
chronologically in bridge and on a drive dedicated to a specific range of 
dates. BTW, while previewing shots in Bridge, I don't have to wait for them to 
load or run a slide show. I can display them as large as a I want and just 
scroll through the folder. A click opens any pic in ACR, almost 
instantaneously. I don't think I'm missing a thing.
Paul

> 
> People who don't use Lightroom often seem labor under the
> misapprehension that Lightroom imposes a particular file layout for
> image files, or prevents you from organizing them however you want on
> the file system. This is not the case at all.
> 
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Re: PESO - Cousin Don

[Paul Stenquist]

Thanks Dan. I'm pleased with it as well. I printed it last night and will give 
it to Cousin Don next time I'm at the market. He's a good guy, who always 
spends some time talking to Grace.
Paul

On Jul 11, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

> That is a stong portrait.  I like the way his forehead nose and beard
> are emphasized by the black background, while the flag drapes his head
> and shoulders.
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> Cousin Don, a Michigan farmer and farmers market entrepreneur.
>> 
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16082232
>> 
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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[John Sessoms]

From: Matthew Hunt


On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:43 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:

Apples & oranges it seems to me.

Paul has a system for filing his photos & you have a tool for searching for
your photos without necessarily caring where they're filed.


The point is that he could continue to file his photos exactly as he
does now, and use Lightroom, and get the best of both worlds.

People who don't use Lightroom often seem labor under the
misapprehension that Lightroom imposes a particular file layout for
image files, or prevents you from organizing them however you want on
the file system. This is not the case at all.


And many Lightroom evangelists seem to think its keywording/tagging 
capabilities are an adequate substitute for actually having some kind of 
system for organizing your files.


I don't just get that from the list BTW.

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Re: GESO - The Kids

[David J Brooks]

Nice work

Dave

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:55 AM, DagT  wrote:
> There´s always a danger that these pictures are too personal, but anyway: I 
> managed to update the gallery and will try to work a little with the others 
> too.
> http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/kids/kids.html
>
> DagT
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Re: Peso's 2012 plowing demo

[David J Brooks]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> Nice, Dave. Be sure and clone out that distracting bright reflection
> from the roof of the building behind that is right above the driver's
> head.

Thanks for pointing that out, i never noticed it. Good to have a
second pair of eyes on these

Dave
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:31 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>> Wednesday was the annual plowing demo at the Lewis farm in Markham.
>> Horse drawn implements and one old tractor.
>>
>> Just starting to rate some 300 plus photos, but this one is on the
>> short list for the fair photo competition.
>>
>> Blair and team:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084792
>>
>> Blair and team in B&W:
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16084794
>>
>> Not sure which one works best. Category would be relics of yesteryear.
>>
>> D2h and or D200
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> -bmw
>
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Re: Pentax K-30 tour

[Steven Desjardins]

LOL.  I think they'll just throw it off the edge.  I'm almost tempted
to take the bike down on the Parkway and make a day of it.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:10 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Steven Desjardins
>
>
>> The VA event is down on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  It says they'll be
>> demoing the water/impact resistance of the Optio WG-2.
>
>
> Take it down to the rocks below Mabry Mill & hit it with a ball-peen hammer?
>
>
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Re: Pentax K-30 tour

[John Sessoms]

From: Steven Desjardins


The VA event is down on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  It says they'll be
demoing the water/impact resistance of the Optio WG-2.


Take it down to the rocks below Mabry Mill & hit it with a ball-peen hammer?

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Re: PESO - from the choir loft

[John Sessoms]

From: George Sinos


Darren

I think its off a bit too.  Rotated just slightly counter-clockwise.

There are a couple of things that are driving me crazy.

I was trying to level the image by drawing a line from the extreme
ends of the back row of pews.  After a couple of tries I figured out
that the pews on either side of the aisle don't line up.  The pews on
the left are offset several inches from the pews on the right.  Duh! I
should have seen that right away.

I'm beginning to suspect that the decorative work above the columns
isn't exactly equal on both sides either.

The only thing I think I can trust is the lamp hanging from the center
of the Apse painting.  It's a natural plumb bob.  You can't quite see
it in this photo. Follow the link in the article to the full size
version on my Smugmug site.  When you switch to the full resolution
version you can see the vertical line of the cable is just slightly
rotated counter-clockwise.

It'll be right in the final version, but I'll probably need to get
another dose of patience before then.


The railing at the front should be level. Why not use it to align the image?

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GESO - The Kids

[DagT]

There´s always a danger that these pictures are too personal, but anyway: I 
managed to update the gallery and will try to work a little with the others too.
http://www.thrane.name/Pictures/kids/kids.html

DagT
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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Peter Loveday]

If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor & "associated 
hardware/software",

what does setting the color space on the camera do?


It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg.


That is correct.


Indeed.

However... theoretically,  there have been sporadic reports that the white 
balance setting actually affects gain adjustments to channels pre-ADC on 
various camera models, including some Pentax ones (amongst others).


If this is indeed true, then this implies that the white balance setting can 
affect can cause changes to raw captured data.  I imagine Auto WB would not 
do this, only specific settings, but I'm not really sure what was found to 
be the case.


Anyway, not something I've ever really bothered about personally, but the 
implication is that on certain camera models, in certain WB settings and 
shooting situations, you may be able to get better captured RAW results with 
specific WB settings.  But without anything concrete, it's more or less 
guesswork.


Bottom line: shoot RAW, ignore WB, take photos :)

- Peter


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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:

>>> If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor & "associated 
>>> hardware/software",
>>> what does setting the color space on the camera do?
>>>
>>It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg.
>
> That is correct.

Does it affect the JPEG preview inside the raw files?

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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:43 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:

> Apples & oranges it seems to me.
>
> Paul has a system for filing his photos & you have a tool for searching for
> your photos without necessarily caring where they're filed.

The point is that he could continue to file his photos exactly as he
does now, and use Lightroom, and get the best of both worlds.

People who don't use Lightroom often seem labor under the
misapprehension that Lightroom imposes a particular file layout for
image files, or prevents you from organizing them however you want on
the file system. This is not the case at all.

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Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?

[Mark Roberts]

Stan Halpin wrote:

>On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:25 AM, John Sessoms wrote:
>
>> From: Postmaster
>> 
>>> Larry Colen wrote:
>>> 
 For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, 
 adobe RGB.
 My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in 
 converting to 
 JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor.
 Am I more confused than usual?
>>> 
>>> Nope. You're quite correct. Raw files are in the device-determined
>>> color space of the sensor (and, theoretically, associated
>>> hardware/software).
>> 
>> If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor & "associated 
>> hardware/software", 
>> what does setting the color space on the camera do?
>> 
>It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg.

That is correct.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: My Photo Management Crossroads

[John Sessoms]

Apples & oranges it seems to me.

Paul has a system for filing his photos & you have a tool for searching 
for your photos without necessarily caring where they're filed.


From: Bruce Walker


My old system was Bridge and Ps. And it was a bit of a mess, with no
special place for my edited files and no easy way to locate finished
files later. But I thought that it was equivalent to Lr / Ps and not
worth the upgrade. How wrong I was.

I switched to using Lr / Ps and all the world is comfortable and has a
rosy glow to it now. Lightroom sends and receives files to/from
Photoshop as layered TIFFs and keeps them visible in the catalog along
with all the other RAWs, so everything is neatly kept organized in
folders that are quickly searchable.

Click on a tag and almost instantly you see all the images tagged that
way. Just try a search like that in Bridge. Chuggity, chuggity, chug
... *eventually* you may get results. I've done fruitless 20-minute
searches in Bridge. Bleagh.



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