Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
Well said Igor & PJ. There is truth in both sides of the argument. Most young people don't embrace conventional cameras any more but many still manage to shoot impressive images which shows just how good modern technology can be. Then there are those with the best equipment who will never master it. We still have PDML members who use vintage equipment with great success too. A good eye is important too. If you can afford the best then why not but most people can't. I find PJ's FS list mindboggling. I would love a K1 & * lenses but my K7 or even K110D with consumer lenses will just have to do. Each to his own. Alan C -Original Message- From: Igor PDML-StR Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 6:36 PM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1 P.J., I understand and agree with your point that Paul proficienty and efficiently using the tools he has. And I assume all people on this list learned and developed some tricks to compensate for the shortcomings of the cameras we've been using. (I can say that about myself even if maybe not at Paul's level of proficiency.) But then when you are (sort of) blaming (or at least seeing it being a problem) "most kids today" for enjoying the more advanced features of the more feature-rich cameras, I disagree with that. Technology changes. Nobody is going to say that a writer is not good enough if he/she cannot write with a feather, scribing on papyrus, on adobe plates .. or even type with a simple typewriter :-D. And very few (if any) today's sound engineers would know how to record music with a gramophone. Closer to this list: I think it is pretty much settled that the future Ansel-Adamses do not have to carry a wooden box and glass plates. I am sure it wasn't that obvious when "compact" cameras showed up on the market. I would even venture to suggest that even Ansel Adams would have switched to a 645Z if appropriate opportunities were presented. :-) Having said all that, I would fully support you on is that one should know his/her tool very well, regardless of what that tool is. And I think that's what is in the foundation of your being unhappy with the "most kids today". But to that, - this situation is timeless: in all generations there are and there were people who don't bother learning about their tools, just scraping on the surface and being satisfied with that. And even for that, - that is a problem only when those people claim being "experts" (like the "reviewer" who should not be named). If someone is using only some (subset of) functions of an advanced tool and draw their pleasure from that, so be it. And if someone has the money to blow on a McLaren of SLRs (pun intended) to use for facebook snaps, all the best to him/her. Cheers, Igor P.J. Alling Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:32:52 -0700 wrote: Paul, you're an old timer who /had/ to develop actual shooting skills, because the camera didn't do it for you, giving you a camera that needs you to actually do some if not all of the work, results in great photographs. Most kids today don't even know where to start if the camera can't focus for them. or blast off 20 frames to capture something /close/ to the decisive moment. That's what I see to be the problem, they'd rather spend twice as much to get something that do most of the work for them. The K-1 is three things, solidly built, a great performer, (if you know how to use it), and a great bargain. I only hope that's enough to make it a great seller. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
P.J., I understand and agree with your point that Paul proficienty and efficiently using the tools he has. And I assume all people on this list learned and developed some tricks to compensate for the shortcomings of the cameras we've been using. (I can say that about myself even if maybe not at Paul's level of proficiency.) But then when you are (sort of) blaming (or at least seeing it being a problem) "most kids today" for enjoying the more advanced features of the more feature-rich cameras, I disagree with that. Technology changes. Nobody is going to say that a writer is not good enough if he/she cannot write with a feather, scribing on papyrus, on adobe plates .. or even type with a simple typewriter :-D. And very few (if any) today's sound engineers would know how to record music with a gramophone. Closer to this list: I think it is pretty much settled that the future Ansel-Adamses do not have to carry a wooden box and glass plates. I am sure it wasn't that obvious when "compact" cameras showed up on the market. I would even venture to suggest that even Ansel Adams would have switched to a 645Z if appropriate opportunities were presented. :-) Having said all that, I would fully support you on is that one should know his/her tool very well, regardless of what that tool is. And I think that's what is in the foundation of your being unhappy with the "most kids today". But to that, - this situation is timeless: in all generations there are and there were people who don't bother learning about their tools, just scraping on the surface and being satisfied with that. And even for that, - that is a problem only when those people claim being "experts" (like the "reviewer" who should not be named). If someone is using only some (subset of) functions of an advanced tool and draw their pleasure from that, so be it. And if someone has the money to blow on a McLaren of SLRs (pun intended) to use for facebook snaps, all the best to him/her. Cheers, Igor P.J. Alling Fri, 16 Sep 2016 08:32:52 -0700 wrote: Paul, you're an old timer who /had/ to develop actual shooting skills, because the camera didn't do it for you, giving you a camera that needs you to actually do some if not all of the work, results in great photographs. Most kids today don't even know where to start if the camera can't focus for them. or blast off 20 frames to capture something /close/ to the decisive moment. That's what I see to be the problem, they'd rather spend twice as much to get something that do most of the work for them. The K-1 is three things, solidly built, a great performer, (if you know how to use it), and a great bargain. I only hope that's enough to make it a great seller. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
On 9/16/2016 7:23 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Paul via phone On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Larry Colen wrote: P.J. Alling wrote: To be fair, the Canon has a better autofocus system with more focus points spread over more of the frame, not to mention much better live view focusing, faster frame rate, bigger buffer, a touch screen, (which enables nose focus I would guess), and records video in 4K, all of which are desirable to a lot of photographers. Yup. The K-1 is the best camera on the market for someone who wishes that their 35 year old K1000 was digital. Sure, it has all those niceties like autofocus, auto exposure and such, but to really get the best results from it, you very rarely want to rely entirely on its automatic modes. However, if you're willing to take your time, and carefully double check everything, it is probably the best performing camera on the market for anything close to the cost. For shooting action, arguably my K-3 is a much better camera, with the faster frame rate and much larger buffer. Perhaps, but in shooting football and RC Motorsport I've found the K-1 continuous autofocus to be superior to that of the K-3. I'm probably going to shoot football again so perhaps I'll give the K-3 a try. I have used it to shoot road racing and got satisfactory results but seem to recall more missed focus. Paul, you're an old timer who /had/ to develop actual shooting skills, because the camera didn't do it for you, giving you a camera that needs you to actually do some if not all of the work, results in great photographs. Most kids today don't even know where to start if the camera can't focus for them. or blast off 20 frames to capture something /close/ to the decisive moment. That's what I see to be the problem, they'd rather spend twice as much to get something that do most of the work for them. The K-1 is three things, solidly built, a great performer, (if you know how to use it), and a great bargain. I only hope that's enough to make it a great seller. On 9/15/2016 7:22 PM, Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
Doesn't matter. If I was going to change brands now, it wouldn't be to Canon. On 9/15/2016 7:22 PM, Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
Paul via phone > On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Larry Colen wrote: > > > > P.J. Alling wrote: >> To be fair, the Canon has a better autofocus system with more focus >> points spread over more of the frame, not to mention much better live >> view focusing, faster frame rate, bigger buffer, a touch screen, (which >> enables nose focus I would guess), and records video in 4K, all of which >> are desirable to a lot of photographers. > > Yup. The K-1 is the best camera on the market for someone who wishes that > their 35 year old K1000 was digital. Sure, it has all those niceties like > autofocus, auto exposure and such, but to really get the best results from > it, you very rarely want to rely entirely on its automatic modes. However, if > you're willing to take your time, and carefully double check everything, it > is probably the best performing camera on the market for anything close to > the cost. > > For shooting action, arguably my K-3 is a much better camera, with the faster > frame rate and much larger buffer. > Perhaps, but in shooting football and RC Motorsport I've found the K-1 continuous autofocus to be superior to that of the K-3. I'm probably going to shoot football again so perhaps I'll give the K-3 a try. I have used it to shoot road racing and got satisfactory results but seem to recall more missed focus. >> >>> On 9/15/2016 7:22 PM, Larry Colen wrote: >>> And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost >>> >>> https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
P.J. Alling wrote: To be fair, the Canon has a better autofocus system with more focus points spread over more of the frame, not to mention much better live view focusing, faster frame rate, bigger buffer, a touch screen, (which enables nose focus I would guess), and records video in 4K, all of which are desirable to a lot of photographers. Yup. The K-1 is the best camera on the market for someone who wishes that their 35 year old K1000 was digital. Sure, it has all those niceties like autofocus, auto exposure and such, but to really get the best results from it, you very rarely want to rely entirely on its automatic modes. However, if you're willing to take your time, and carefully double check everything, it is probably the best performing camera on the market for anything close to the cost. For shooting action, arguably my K-3 is a much better camera, with the faster frame rate and much larger buffer. On 9/15/2016 7:22 PM, Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
To be fair, the Canon has a better autofocus system with more focus points spread over more of the frame, not to mention much better live view focusing, faster frame rate, bigger buffer, a touch screen, (which enables nose focus I would guess), and records video in 4K, all of which are desirable to a lot of photographers. On 9/15/2016 7:22 PM, Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
It's probably unfair to compare sensor performance only. And we all know some glaring (I almost wrote "gloring") shortcomings in Pentax cameras. And there are some strengths of them as well. So, if I had three cameras of a comparable class (AFAIK, 5DmkIV is somewhat above K-1 in the class, isn't it?), - P, C, N, and I had to assign a "fair" price (i.e. neglecting the brand name premium), that would be a very hard job. The fully ideal camera will never happen, something will always be missing, as you cannot attache the head of Steven to the body of Peter. Don't take me wrong, - I still like my K-5 IIs. :-) Igor Larry Colen Thu, 15 Sep 2016 16:38:08 -0700 wrote: Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 When you add the D810 to the mix, it squeaks by on score for slightly better performance at ISO < 100. Admittedly, the Canikons do perform slightly better than the Pentax at some higher ISOs (generally over 12,000). Realistically, I don't think many people would be able to tell the difference in sensor performance in the vast majority of situations. Cost seems to be Canon $3500 Nikon $2800 Pentax $1800 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
Larry Colen wrote: And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 When you add the D810 to the mix, it squeaks by on score for slightly better performance at ISO < 100. Admittedly, the Canikons do perform slightly better than the Pentax at some higher ISOs (generally over 12,000). Realistically, I don't think many people would be able to tell the difference in sensor performance in the vast majority of situations. Cost seems to be Canon $3500 Nikon $2800 Pentax $1800 -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: 5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
Larry Colen wrote: >And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost > >https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 Har! -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
5DmkIV sensor almost as good as K-1
And at $3500 it is less than twice the cost https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Pentax-K-1___1106_1075 -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
