Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

Update after a couple of hours of slaving away.

First of all, I've solved the banding issue - undoubtedly a little war between 
the printer and CS6. Probably me - I may have forgotten to turn off a colour 
management switch so there was a clash between the printer managing the  
colours and Photoshop.

I've done some test prints and all looking good. I've changed my standard 
resizing to 360ppi, also.

Meanwhile I've found this very good web site for Photoshop and Lightroom 
printing. Lots of info might be useful to someone. This is the page that 
related to me, use the navigation at left to find your own issues.

Scroll down at bottom for printing links to Epson and Canon from both Mac and 
PC.



Thanks to all who responded - once again the PDML collective reaches parts 
others have simply never even heard of !







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  Cotty


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Re: Another Printer Question

[Mark Roberts]

Steve Cottrell wrote:

>On 3/7/19, Postmaster, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>I do my printing with Qimage software which uses its own resampling
>>algorithms to convert each image to the native resolution of your
>>printer at the print size you're making.
>
>Mark, is this the software??
>
>
>
>
>If so there's a Mac version.

I had to do some research but, yes, it's the same software. The
original Qimage was developed by DDI Software and was Windows only.
Apparently Binartem is a new company they're working with to make the
cross-platform version. I had no idea until now.

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 3/7/19, Postmaster, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I do my printing with Qimage software which uses its own resampling
>algorithms to convert each image to the native resolution of your
>printer at the print size you're making.

Mark, is this the software??




If so there's a Mac version.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The native resolution of most Epson printers since 2000 has been 1440 dpi (dots 
per inch). Dots per inch is not the same thing as pixels per inch (ppi) ... a 
dot is the size of of the minimum ink spot the printer can generate, but it 
take multiple spots of the discrete inks overlaid to achieve the range of 
colors that the printer can manage. 720 dpi, double that spot size, isn't 
really enough area to image a pixel that can be contributed to by four inks (C, 
Y, M + Black). As a result the 'native' or 'best' resolution of a 1440 dpi 
printer in pixels is really better considered as 360ppi.

Epson's driver algorithms make PPI resolutions that are integral multiples of 
60 in the range of that maximum resolution point print best (180, 240, 300, 
360). These numbers are specific to Epson printers and print drivers; other 
printers and print drivers may well differ as it is algorithm specific. 

Bruce Fraser covered this subject in his book on color printing many ages ago 
and in his workshops. 

G

> On Jul 3, 2019, at 12:18 PM, Postmaster  wrote:
> 
> John wrote:
> 
>> When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers. We 
>> were 
>> advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.
> 
> That's because 360 is exactly half of 720, the native mechanical
> resolution of Epson printers (newer ones are double that at 1440) and
> 2:1 interpolation is simple.
> 
> I do my printing with Qimage software which uses its own resampling
> algorithms to convert each image to the native resolution of your
> printer at the print size you're making.
> 


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Re: Another Printer Question

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The native resolution of most Epson printers since 2000 has been 1440 dpi (dots 
per inch). Dots per inch is not the same thing as pixels per inch (ppi) ... a 
dot is the size of of the minimum ink spot the printer can generate, but it 
take multiple spots of the discrete inks overlaid to achieve the range of 
colors that the printer can manage. 720 dpi, double that spot size, isn't 
really enough area to image a pixel that can be contributed to by four inks (C, 
Y, M + Black). As a result the 'native' or 'best' resolution of a 1440 dpi 
printer in pixels is really better considered as 360ppi.

Bruce Fraser covered this subject in his book on color printing many ages ago 
and in his workshops. 

G




Godfrey
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> On Jul 3, 2019, at 12:18 PM, Postmaster  wrote:
> 
> John wrote:
> 
>> When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers. We 
>> were 
>> advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.
> 
> That's because 360 is exactly half of 720, the native mechanical
> resolution of Epson printers (newer ones are double that at 1440) and
> 2:1 interpolation is simple.
> 
> I do my printing with Qimage software which uses its own resampling
> algorithms to convert each image to the native resolution of your
> printer at the print size you're making.
> 
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Re: Another Printer Question

[Igor PDML-StR]

I would guess that the odd number is to avoid it being a [higher] harmonic 
of something else (native resolution, spatial sampling frequency, ...)


I've heard this type of advice to avoid aliasing-related artifacts.
I have some intuitive feeling why that *might be* the case, but I don't 
understand it at any reasonable level (and definitely far from being 
able to explain it).



John Wed, 03 Jul 2019 12:02:51 -0700 wrote:

There used to be a real good Pro-Lab located about a mile from my house. 
When I took files there to have them printed (C-prints) they asked for 
them to be sized at 305 ppi. I don't know the reason why for that either, 
although I asked.



Their explanation was it "just worked better if you used an odd number" 
and "305" was the odd number they wanted me to use.



Go figure.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Postmaster]

John wrote:

>When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers. We 
>were 
>advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.

That's because 360 is exactly half of 720, the native mechanical
resolution of Epson printers (newer ones are double that at 1440) and
2:1 interpolation is simple.

I do my printing with Qimage software which uses its own resampling
algorithms to convert each image to the native resolution of your
printer at the print size you're making.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[John]

On 7/3/2019 14:34:05, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 3/7/19, John, discombobulated, unleashed:


When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers.
We were
advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.


I've always sized mine at 300 ppi for printing...

Cotty




Same here, but that's what the school recommended.

Don't know why, but "Befehl ist Befehl". If that's what the instructor wants, 
that's what the instructor gets. Ain't gonna' improve my grade arguing with him.


There used to be a real good Pro-Lab located about a mile from my house. When I 
took files there to have them printed (C-prints) they asked for them to be sized 
at 305 ppi. I don't know the reason why for that either, although I asked.


Their explanation was it "just worked better if you used an odd number" and 
"305" was the odd number they wanted me to use.


Go figure.


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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 3/7/19, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers.
>We were 
>advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.

I've always sized mine at 300 ppi for printing...

Cotty


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Re: Another Printer Question

[John]

When I was in school, they had iMacs and Epson Stylus Pro 4800 printers. We were 
advised to size our images to print at 360 ppi.


On 7/3/2019 13:03:20, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Just in case this information could be helpful (related to the suggestions by 
Mark and Godfrey):


I've been printing from CS6 from a Windows computer (Photoshop ver 13.0 x64) on 
Epson R2880 without any problems related to banding.
That's the version from "About Photoshop". So, I don't think any updates were 
installed. But then Mac and Windows versions could behave differently.


I just checked the most recent photo-cards I printed from PS, and they were 
printed at 400 PPI and 308 PPI (as reported by PS).


I am printing with the settings where PS controls the colors using the 
appropriate paper profiles.



It does sound like it might be some weird PS - printer driver communication 
problem.
This could be due to the driver or due to the PS (more likely the latter, since 
you can print just fine from another program.).

I can think about two things to try:
1. Move the PS configurations to a different folder to let it start with the 
default configurations (Google how to do that and where that config file is 
located, - that is a frequently described procedure for when Photoshop refuses 
to start.) Sorry, I am not sure about location of those files on Mac.


2. If that doesn't work, try reinstalling the printer driver.

I have my doubts that it is the installation of the driver, so, I am not sure if 
#2 would help, but ...


HTH,

Igor

PS. I wonder if Epson salt would be helpful for Epsom printers. :-)



Postmaster Tue, 02 Jul 2019 11:26:05 -0700 wrote:



No? All right then. My best guess is that Photoshop is having some
kind of disagreement with your printer driver. You should check that
you have the latest driver for your printer and also see if Adobe
issued any updates/patches for Photoshop CS6 that you haven't
installed.

If none of that works you could try re-sizing the image to the desired
print dimensions at 720ppi output resolution (the native hardware
resolution for Epsom printers).




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Re: Another Printer Question

[Paul Stenquist]

I too am printing from CS6 on an Epson 2880. But I’m on. Mac running no High 
Sierra. No problems over years of printing and hundreds of prints.

Paul

> On Jul 3, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> 
> Just in case this information could be helpful (related to the suggestions by 
> Mark and Godfrey):
> 
> I've been printing from CS6 from a Windows computer (Photoshop ver 13.0 x64) 
> on Epson R2880 without any problems related to banding.
> That's the version from "About Photoshop". So, I don't think any updates were 
> installed. But then Mac and Windows versions could behave differently.
> 
> I just checked the most recent photo-cards I printed from PS, and they were 
> printed at 400 PPI and 308 PPI (as reported by PS).
> 
> I am printing with the settings where PS controls the colors using the 
> appropriate paper profiles.
> 
> 
> It does sound like it might be some weird PS - printer driver communication 
> problem.
> This could be due to the driver or due to the PS (more likely the latter, 
> since you can print just fine from another program.).
> I can think about two things to try:
> 1. Move the PS configurations to a different folder to let it start with the 
> default configurations (Google how to do that and where that config file is 
> located, - that is a frequently described procedure for when Photoshop 
> refuses to start.) Sorry, I am not sure about location of those files on Mac.
> 
> 2. If that doesn't work, try reinstalling the printer driver.
> 
> I have my doubts that it is the installation of the driver, so, I am not sure 
> if #2 would help, but ...
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Igor
> 
> PS. I wonder if Epson salt would be helpful for Epsom printers. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> Postmaster Tue, 02 Jul 2019 11:26:05 -0700 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> No? All right then. My best guess is that Photoshop is having some
> kind of disagreement with your printer driver. You should check that
> you have the latest driver for your printer and also see if Adobe
> issued any updates/patches for Photoshop CS6 that you haven't
> installed.
> 
> If none of that works you could try re-sizing the image to the desired
> print dimensions at 720ppi output resolution (the native hardware
> resolution for Epsom printers).
> 
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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 2/7/19, l...@red4est.com, discombobulated, unleashed:

>In Lightroom I can print to a file, do you get the banding if you print
>to a file rather than export to jpeg?

I can print to a file in MS Office (on the printer dialogue, eg select 'PDF') 
but no such option in the CS6 printer dialogue. Can only 'Save As' to output a 
file. No banding on those outputs. cheers

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 3/7/19, Igor PDML-StR, discombobulated, unleashed:

>PS. I wonder if Epson salt would be helpful for Epsom printers. :-)

Haha!  Yes :-)

Thanks for the input Igor - will investigate.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Igor PDML-StR]

Just in case this information could be helpful (related to the 
suggestions by Mark and Godfrey):


I've been printing from CS6 from a Windows computer (Photoshop ver 13.0 
x64) on Epson R2880 without any problems related to banding.
That's the version from "About Photoshop". So, I don't think any updates 
were installed. But then Mac and Windows versions could behave 
differently.


I just checked the most recent photo-cards I printed from PS, and they 
were printed at 400 PPI and 308 PPI (as reported by PS).


I am printing with the settings where PS controls the colors using the 
appropriate paper profiles.



It does sound like it might be some weird PS - printer driver 
communication problem.
This could be due to the driver or due to the PS (more likely the latter, 
since you can print just fine from another program.).

I can think about two things to try:
1. Move the PS configurations to a different folder to let it start with 
the default configurations (Google how to do that and where that config 
file is located, - that is a frequently described procedure for when 
Photoshop refuses to start.) Sorry, I am not sure about location of those 
files on Mac.


2. If that doesn't work, try reinstalling the printer driver.

I have my doubts that it is the installation of the driver, so, I am not 
sure if #2 would help, but ...


HTH,

Igor

PS. I wonder if Epson salt would be helpful for Epsom printers. :-)



Postmaster Tue, 02 Jul 2019 11:26:05 -0700 wrote:



No? All right then. My best guess is that Photoshop is having some
kind of disagreement with your printer driver. You should check that
you have the latest driver for your printer and also see if Adobe
issued any updates/patches for Photoshop CS6 that you haven't
installed.

If none of that works you could try re-sizing the image to the desired
print dimensions at 720ppi output resolution (the native hardware
resolution for Epsom printers).

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 2/7/19, Postmaster, discombobulated, unleashed:

>If none of those tricks works you'll probably have to either buy a new
>printer or print from an app other than Photoshop (which you're
>already doing). Nothing wrong with printing from a different
>application. I never print directly from Photoshop but use a
>printing-specific application called Qimage (sadly, not available for
>Mac AFAIK).

Thanks Mark - will look into it!

>If none of that works you could try re-sizing the image to the desired
>print dimensions at 720ppi output resolution (the native hardware
>resolution for Epsom printers).

Didn't realise this - very interesting. Will try today!



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Re: Another Printer Question

[P. J. Alling]

You could try letting the printer manage color, that solved a myraid of 
problems back when I was still using HP printers.  The Canon gives much 
closer results to the screen image when I do that since I don't have a 
dedicated profile for any of my common printing papers.   I sometimes 
get the feeling the printer is actually fighting Photoshop.


On 7/2/2019 1:53 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

Hi PDML

Well, I just nearly fell off my chair.

I have an Epson P50 printer, a few years old and been around the block now, but 
it still works and the separate ink tanks I like, but generally I don't print 
photos from it - it's just the House Printer.

The Mrs announced she wanted some prints doing of photos she had taken so i 
though okay, i better make sure it's gonna work.

Test prints in CS6 resulted in horizontal banding. As I recall, I had the same 
issue way back and tried troubleshooting it at the time and gave up when 
offered a beer. I may have thrown the empty bottle at the printer.

Anyway, a nice A4 shot with plenty of textures and patterns came out shit with 
loads of horizontal banding.

Okay, nozzle check, one or two gaps here and there, cleaning cycles, nozzles 
clear. Still banding. Next, head alignment, and another test print. Still 
banding. Tried adjusting all sorts of settings in Photoshop CS6 to no avail. 
Very slight colour overlapping resulting in discreet but noticeable banding.

Then I had a thought.

I exported the image as a best quality largest size jpeg onto my desktop and 
opened it in Preview (a Mac general purpose photo viewer/editor, comes with the 
OS).

I printed from that and NO BANDING.

Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?

Thanks for all advice.


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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
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Re: Another Printer Question

[lrc]

I'll take a wild guess that there is some sort of aliasing happening in the 
conversion process.

In Lightroom I can print to a file, do you get the banding if you print to a 
file rather than export to jpeg?

On July 2, 2019 10:53:22 AM PDT, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
>Hi PDML
>
>Well, I just nearly fell off my chair.
>
>I have an Epson P50 printer, a few years old and been around the block
>now, but it still works and the separate ink tanks I like, but
>generally I don't print photos from it - it's just the House Printer.
>
>The Mrs announced she wanted some prints doing of photos she had taken
>so i though okay, i better make sure it's gonna work.
>
>Test prints in CS6 resulted in horizontal banding. As I recall, I had
>the same issue way back and tried troubleshooting it at the time and
>gave up when offered a beer. I may have thrown the empty bottle at the
>printer.
>
>Anyway, a nice A4 shot with plenty of textures and patterns came out
>shit with loads of horizontal banding.
>
>Okay, nozzle check, one or two gaps here and there, cleaning cycles,
>nozzles clear. Still banding. Next, head alignment, and another test
>print. Still banding. Tried adjusting all sorts of settings in
>Photoshop CS6 to no avail. Very slight colour overlapping resulting in
>discreet but noticeable banding.
>
>Then I had a thought.
>
>I exported the image as a best quality largest size jpeg onto my
>desktop and opened it in Preview (a Mac general purpose photo
>viewer/editor, comes with the OS).
>
>I printed from that and NO BANDING.
>
>Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?
>
>Thanks for all advice.
>
>-- 
>
>
>Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Another Printer Question

[Postmaster]

Steve Cottrell wrote:

>Hi PDML
>
>Well, I just nearly fell off my chair.

So what else is new?

>I have an Epson P50 printer, a few years old and been around the block now, 
>but it still works and the separate ink tanks I like, but generally I don't 
>print photos from it - it's just the House Printer.
>
>The Mrs announced she wanted some prints doing of photos she had taken so i 
>though okay, i better make sure it's gonna work.
>
>Test prints in CS6 resulted in horizontal banding. As I recall, I had the same 
>issue way back and tried troubleshooting it at the time and gave up when 
>offered a beer. I may have thrown the empty bottle at the printer.
>
>Anyway, a nice A4 shot with plenty of textures and patterns came out shit with 
>loads of horizontal banding.
>
>Okay, nozzle check, one or two gaps here and there, cleaning cycles, nozzles 
>clear. Still banding. Next, head alignment, and another test print. Still 
>banding. Tried adjusting all sorts of settings in Photoshop CS6 to no avail. 
>Very slight colour overlapping resulting in discreet but noticeable banding.
>
>Then I had a thought.
>
>I exported the image as a best quality largest size jpeg onto my desktop and 
>opened it in Preview (a Mac general purpose photo viewer/editor, comes with 
>the OS).
>
>I printed from that and NO BANDING.
>
>Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?

It's not a photograph of bands, is it?

No? All right then. My best guess is that Photoshop is having some
kind of disagreement with your printer driver. You should check that
you have the latest driver for your printer and also see if Adobe
issued any updates/patches for Photoshop CS6 that you haven't
installed.

If none of that works you could try re-sizing the image to the desired
print dimensions at 720ppi output resolution (the native hardware
resolution for Epsom printers).

If none of those tricks works you'll probably have to either buy a new
printer or print from an app other than Photoshop (which you're
already doing). Nothing wrong with printing from a different
application. I never print directly from Photoshop but use a
printing-specific application called Qimage (sadly, not available for
Mac AFAIK).

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 2/7/19, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I dimly recall hearing that PS CS6 has some printing issues on first
>release that were solved with later updates

Interesting!!

Will do some Googling, thanks mate.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

On 2/7/19, John, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Nope.

Have a beer John.

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Re: Another Printer Question

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I dimly recall hearing that PS CS6 has some printing issues on first release 
that were solved with later updates, but I've never upgraded past PS CS5.1. I 
haven't used even that in several years now, so it's going away when I buy a 
new Mac mini.

G


> On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:53 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> Hi PDML
> 
> Well, I just nearly fell off my chair.
> 
> I have an Epson P50 printer, a few years old and been around the block now, 
> but it still works and the separate ink tanks I like, but generally I don't 
> print photos from it - it's just the House Printer.
> 
> The Mrs announced she wanted some prints doing of photos she had taken so i 
> though okay, i better make sure it's gonna work.
> 
> Test prints in CS6 resulted in horizontal banding. As I recall, I had the 
> same issue way back and tried troubleshooting it at the time and gave up when 
> offered a beer. I may have thrown the empty bottle at the printer.
> 
> Anyway, a nice A4 shot with plenty of textures and patterns came out shit 
> with loads of horizontal banding.
> 
> Okay, nozzle check, one or two gaps here and there, cleaning cycles, nozzles 
> clear. Still banding. Next, head alignment, and another test print. Still 
> banding. Tried adjusting all sorts of settings in Photoshop CS6 to no avail. 
> Very slight colour overlapping resulting in discreet but noticeable banding.
> 
> Then I had a thought.
> 
> I exported the image as a best quality largest size jpeg onto my desktop and 
> opened it in Preview (a Mac general purpose photo viewer/editor, comes with 
> the OS).
> 
> I printed from that and NO BANDING.
> 
> Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?
> 
> Thanks for all advice.


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Re: Another Printer Question

[John]

On 7/2/2019 13:53:22, Steve Cottrell wrote:



Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?



Nope.


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Another Printer Question

[Steve Cottrell]

Hi PDML

Well, I just nearly fell off my chair.

I have an Epson P50 printer, a few years old and been around the block now, but 
it still works and the separate ink tanks I like, but generally I don't print 
photos from it - it's just the House Printer.

The Mrs announced she wanted some prints doing of photos she had taken so i 
though okay, i better make sure it's gonna work.

Test prints in CS6 resulted in horizontal banding. As I recall, I had the same 
issue way back and tried troubleshooting it at the time and gave up when 
offered a beer. I may have thrown the empty bottle at the printer.

Anyway, a nice A4 shot with plenty of textures and patterns came out shit with 
loads of horizontal banding.

Okay, nozzle check, one or two gaps here and there, cleaning cycles, nozzles 
clear. Still banding. Next, head alignment, and another test print. Still 
banding. Tried adjusting all sorts of settings in Photoshop CS6 to no avail. 
Very slight colour overlapping resulting in discreet but noticeable banding.

Then I had a thought.

I exported the image as a best quality largest size jpeg onto my desktop and 
opened it in Preview (a Mac general purpose photo viewer/editor, comes with the 
OS).

I printed from that and NO BANDING.

Anyone care to hazard a guess where I'm clearly being defeated by CS6 ?

Thanks for all advice.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


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