Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Hallo, when I used lenses with odd f-stops like 1.9, 1.8 oder 3.2 I noticed that the MZ-S gives the exact number in the display. The Z-1p and the MZ-5n are giving the 2 oder 3.5 instead. The only lense where the f-stop in the display of the MZ-S is wrong is the old FA 3.5-4.7 28-80. (It shows 4.5) Could that be a hint of a new data transfer between lens and body? Has somebody a lens like the 1.9/43, 1.8/77 or 3.2-4.5 28-105 to check if the new MZ-6/MZ-L oder MZ-60 are giving also the exact values? regards Rüdiger
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Rüdiger wrote: > when I used lenses with odd f-stops like 1.9, 1.8 oder 3.2 I noticed that > the MZ-S gives the exact number in the display. The Z-1p and the MZ-5n are > giving the 2 oder 3.5 instead. The only lense where the f-stop in the > display of the MZ-S is wrong is the old FA 3.5-4.7 28-80. (It shows 4.5) > Could that be a hint of a new data transfer between lens and body? You could be onto something, although I'm sceptical. Doesn't the MZ-S specification list say KAF2 mount? Pål
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
In answer to Rüdiger's question, 43mm/1.9 shows as "F 1.9" on the MZ-S, but as "F2.0" on the MZ-M (definitely) and also on the MZ-5n (from memory) 73mm/1.8 shows as "F 1.8" on the MZ-S, but as "F1.7" on the MZ-M and MZ-5n (again the 5n is from memory) The MZ-S spec sheet and manual both say K-AF2 mount, though. -- Kristian On Sunday, Sep 8, 2002, at 20:33 Europe/Dublin, Pål Jensen wrote: > Rüdiger wrote: > >> when I used lenses with odd f-stops like 1.9, 1.8 oder 3.2 I noticed >> that >> the MZ-S gives the exact number in the display. The Z-1p and the >> MZ-5n are >> giving the 2 oder 3.5 instead. The only lense where the f-stop in the >> display of the MZ-S is wrong is the old FA 3.5-4.7 28-80. (It shows >> 4.5) >> Could that be a hint of a new data transfer between lens and body? > > > You could be onto something, although I'm sceptical. Doesn't the MZ-S > specification list say KAF2 mount? > > Pål > >
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Well, the MZ-S makes a noise when shaking it. It sounds like a small metal ball that moves when shaking the camera. It's located somewhere in the prism according to my ears. Interestingly, according to the Pentax Image stabilization patent, the camera, not the lenses, have vibration sensors. Could this be what makes a noise when shaking the camera? Most likely it's something entirely different, though; maybe its just a sensor for determining whether the camera is held vertically of horizontally used for metering. I believe my former MZ-S also had the same "noise". Pål
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
>Well, the MZ-S makes a noise when shaking it. It sounds like a small metal >ball that moves when shaking the camera. It's located somewhere in the >prism according to my ears. Interestingly, according to the Pentax Image >stabilization patent, the camera, not the lenses, have vibration sensors. >Could this be what makes a noise when shaking the camera? Most likely it's >something entirely different, though; maybe its just a sensor for >determining whether the camera is held vertically of horizontally used for >metering. >I believe my former MZ-S also had the same "noise". http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020118963'.PGNR.&OS=DN/20020118963&RS=DN/20020118963 http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020114623'.PGNR.&OS=DN/20020114623&RS=DN/20020114623 There are mention of "KAF III". Could this be the new mount based on KAF2? regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
If they come out with an KAF III and it's not really the KAF II that's said to be in the MZ-S, I'll be royally pissed. Just got the thing this summer and I'm a student. Whatever (if there is one) Pentax comes up with, it had better be fully compatible with the MZ-S. - Original Message - From: "Alan Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > >Well, the MZ-S makes a noise when shaking it. It sounds like a small metal > >ball that moves when shaking the camera. It's located somewhere in the > >prism according to my ears. Interestingly, according to the Pentax Image > >stabilization patent, the camera, not the lenses, have vibration sensors. > >Could this be what makes a noise when shaking the camera? Most likely it's > >something entirely different, though; maybe its just a sensor for > >determining whether the camera is held vertically of horizontally used for > >metering. > >I believe my former MZ-S also had the same "noise". > > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p= 1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020118963'.PGNR.&OS=DN/200 20118963&RS=DN/20020118963 > > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p= 1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='20020114623'.PGNR.&OS=DN/200 20114623&RS=DN/20020114623 > > There are mention of "KAF III". Could this be the new mount based on KAF2? > > regards, > Alan Chan > > > _ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com >
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Hi, I noticed that noise too...I attributed to 2 possible causes, 1-the batteries in their compartment 2-the metal rod on the Grip (BG-10) where you fasten the strap to...(I seem to hear it mainly with the grip on). --- Pål_Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, the MZ-S makes a noise when shaking it. It > sounds like a small metal ball that moves when > shaking the camera. It's located somewhere in the > prism according to my ears. Interestingly, according > to the Pentax Image stabilization patent, the > camera, not the lenses, have vibration sensors. > Could this be what makes a noise when shaking the > camera? Most likely it's something entirely > different, though; maybe its just a sensor for > determining whether the camera is held vertically of > horizontally used for metering. > I believe my former MZ-S also had the same "noise". > > > > Pål > __ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Rüdiger Neumann wrote: > > Hallo, > thanks for your answer, here my questions to find out if there is a new data > transfer between lens and body? > > ... Hello Rüdiger and all. There must be something new since the K mount contacts (unchanged since the first KA mount) trasmit the max/min aperture info by using a binary code consisting of metal/plastic contacts. The info is coded only in half stops so there's no way you could see a 1.9 or 4.7 in any older KA or KAF1/2 camera. Now, how the MZ-s knows the exact aperture I don't know. I don't even have an idea. Does the camera have other contacts? If Dario and Boz read this maybe they'll be able to jump in with some explanation... Ciao, Flavio
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Hi again, Alin Flaider wrote: > [...] BTW, the data link can accommodate virtually any new > protocol for IS, USM, whatever. I agree with that. In fact, this is the ony reason that I can imagine for the MZ-S keeping the power-zoom contacts: for powering whatever "high-current" devices integrated in the lenses. BTW, to me, the idea of an IS-USM teleconverter sounds like a technologically-sound one. Such a device could be built, and I don't see a better-suited company for that than Pentax. It could even take manual-focus lenses. !!! Cheers, Boz -- _\\|//_ Imagination is more important than knowledge... 0(` O-O ')0 A. Einstein ===ooO=(_)=Ooo=== Bojidar D. Dimitrov author and editor, Pentax K-Mount web page [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmp.BDimitrov.de/ = <__> <__>
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Bojidar wrote: > It easy to imagine that all lenses send very detailed information > about distance, aperture, size, etc. and the MZ-S is the first body to > decode all of it. It is so. Eg. the MZ-S use distance information provided by the lens for AF while the Z-1p does not. Pål
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
- Original Message - From: "MPozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > Hi, > I noticed that noise too...I attributed to 2 possible > causes, > 1-the batteries in their compartment > 2-the metal rod on the Grip (BG-10) where you fasten > the strap to...(I seem to hear it mainly with the grip > on). It is neither. I don't have the grip amd it's not the batteries. I believe it's for determining the cameras orientation to help matrix metering. Besides, according to the newer patents the vibration sensors for image stabilization is now located in the lenses. Pål
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Bojidar wrote: > BTW, to me, the idea of an IS-USM teleconverter sounds like a > technologically-sound one. Such a device could be built, and I don't > see a better-suited company for that than Pentax. It could even take > manual-focus lenses. !!! I'm not so sure this product is viable. It depends if the abberations created by the moving elements are determined by those elements alone or by the combination of glass in the lens. If the latter, it will be virtually impossible to design an IS converter with adequate correction elements that fit "all" lenses. At least without significant deterioration of optical quality. I fear, but is not sure, that IS has to be taylored for a particular lens. Anyway, the patents related to the KAFIII mount that mention converters are not dealing with IS converters but ordinarily converters. These maintan AF and tell the camera the corrected aperture of the lens and that a converter is mounted. Pål
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
"It is so. Eg. the MZ-S use distance information provided by the lens for AF while the Z-1p does not." Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via the FA lenses >From: Pål Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? >Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:00:30 +0200 > >Bojidar wrote: > > > It easy to imagine that all lenses send very detailed information > > about distance, aperture, size, etc. and the MZ-S is the first body to > > decode all of it. > >It is so. Eg. the MZ-S use distance information provided by the lens for AF >while the Z-1p does not. > > >Pål _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
I could be wrong, but isn't it 6-segment metering? > Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via the FA lenses
RE: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Well, yes - you're wrong :) The Z1p uses an 8-segment metering, while the MZ-S has 6-segments. Lukasz -Original Message- From: Brad Dobo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? I could be wrong, but isn't it 6-segment metering? > Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via the FA lenses
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
z1p is 8 segment, mz-s is 6 segment - Original Message - From: "Brad Dobo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > I could be wrong, but isn't it 6-segment metering? > > > Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via the FA lenses > > > > >
RE: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Which goes to show that more isn't necessarily better. tv > -Original Message- > From: Lukasz Kacperczyk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:58 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > > > Well, yes - you're wrong :) > The Z1p uses an 8-segment metering, while the MZ-S has 6-segments. > > Lukasz > > -Original Message- > From: Brad Dobo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:47 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > > > I could be wrong, but isn't it 6-segment metering? > > > Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via > the FA lenses > >
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
Damn, I hate it when I'm wrong! :) Brad Dobo - Original Message - From: "Lukasz Kacperczyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: RE: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > Well, yes - you're wrong :) > The Z1p uses an 8-segment metering, while the MZ-S has 6-segments. > > Lukasz > > -Original Message- > From: Brad Dobo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:47 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount? > > > I could be wrong, but isn't it 6-segment metering? > > > Doesn't the Z1p do this for the 8-segment metering via the FA lenses > > >
Re: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?
As far as aperature readout is concerned, wouldn't that be a function of camera software? I don't see how it would require a new mount to be able to correctly read an off-the-wall aperature setting. Nick Wright __ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute
Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:49:42 +0200, Rdiger Neumann wrote: > The min and max aperture values of a lens were transmited by the contacts of > the KA-mount. A lens from 2.8 - 22 has a certain pattern of the 6 pins. It > is not possible to transmit values like 1.9 in that way. > So there have been a change in the protokoll of the 7th pin which > transmitted the focal lenth and the distance of F/FA lense. It must also > transmit the exact aperture value. If I recall correctly, either the PK-AF (SMC-F series) or PK-AF2 (SMC-FA series) added a "digital" pin to the lens mount. Since it uses a serial, digital transmission protocol, this pin can transmit anything that the lens and body agree on. I believe that's the way that the FA (and F?) series lenses and bodies provide stuff like showing 1.9 instead of 2.0 in the viewfinder. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Vs: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
I think that the exact value of the maximum aperture can be read by old cameras as well - even the analogue MF cameras do it. The pin for it has existed before any electronic contacts. But only the newer cameras can display it. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Päivä: 11. syyskuuta 2002 23:55 Aihe: Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?) >I vaguely recall this being discussed some time ago. It looks from your >list that it is the newer lenses with odd maximum apertures that can be >read by the MZ-S. I think the answer suggested before was that, since >these lenses didn't exist when the 1p and 5n were released, their chips >cannot recognize the odd apertures. > >To test this, I just put my FA 31 f1.8 on a PZ-1p. At wide aperture the >reading goes from f2.0 to f1.7. It can't display f1.8, presumably >because its chip doesn't have that aperture written into it? > >Joe >
Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
Sorry that I don't have any info on the MZ-6, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. All FA lenses can transmit the exact aperture. Whether or not the camera use it depends on the camera. Probably also reported apertures transmitted from the lens varies with the price of the lens. Eg,. Canon non-L lenses set aperture in 1/4 stops while the L-lenses use 1/12 of a stop. So the differences in "accurate" apertures is probably a function of whats coded into the lens CPU. I don't believe that the MZ-S has FA3 mount. The specification sheet says KAF2 and I cannot find any reason why they would spread desinformation. I wouldn't hold my breath for KAF3 mount to be shown at Photokina either (I would love to be proven wrong though). When or if such a mount appears, my guess is that it will for a new series of cameras. Pål - Original Message - From: "Rüdiger Neumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:49 PM Subject: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?) > Hallo, I need some help. > The MZ-S displays also odd aperture values like 1.9, 1.8, 3.2 in the > viewfinder. The Z1p and the MZ-5n shows instead 2, 1.7, 3.5. > The min and max aperture values of a lens were transmited by the contacts of > the KA-mount. A lens from 2.8 - 22 has a certain pattern of the 6 pins. It > is not possible to transmit values like 1.9 in that way. > So there have been a change in the protokoll of the 7th pin which > transmitted the focal lenth and the distance of F/FA lense. It must also > transmit the exact aperture value. > For that there must be a change in the lense and in the camera. > I have the question which lense and since when transmitted the exact values > and which camera can read it besides the MZ-S. > I have tested some lenses with odd apertures with the MZ-S. But some lenses > are missing. (see list) > I'm also interessted if the new bodies like the MZ-6/L can read the new > protokol. > > Here is my list with a lot of ??? in order of the lens and camera > appearance. > > K-mount F/FA lenses with odd aperture values which can/cannot transmit exact > aperature values: > > FA 3.5-4.7 28-80 PZ since 1991no > F4.7-5.6 80-200 black since 1994?? > FA 3.8-5.6 28-200 since 1996no > FA 1.9/43 since 1997yes > FA 4.7-5.6 80-200 silversince 1999 ?? > FA 1.8/77 since 1999yes > FA 4.7-5.8 100-300 since 2000?? > A 1.2/50 for LX2000 since 2000?? > FA 1.8/31 since 2001 ?? > FA 3.2-4.5 28-105 since 2001yes > > Cameras which can/cannot display the exact aperature values: > > Z-1p 1995 no > MZ-5n1997 no > MZ-7/MX-7 1999 ?? > MZ-S 2001yes > MZ-L/MX-6 2001?? > MZ-60 2002?? > > Can you please fill in the lists at the questionmarks > Thanks > Rüdiger Neumann > > P.S: It is interesting, that this protokol which was already in a lens since > 1997 (1.9/43) was used the first time ?? in a camera in 2001. >
Vs: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
> I think that the exact value of the maximum aperture can be read by old cameras as > well - even the analogue MF cameras do it. The pin for it has existed before any > electronic contacts. But only the newer cameras can display it. > All the best! > Raimo Yes, perhaps it can be read, but the display cannot show 1.8. (This is in the case of my PZ-1p and FA 31 f1.8, which reads 1.7 on the LCD.) Joe
Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
>Sorry that I don't have any info on the MZ-6, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. All FA lenses can transmit the exact aperture. Whether or not the camera use it depends on the camera > From Pål > Hallo Pal, you are wrong. If you look in my list, you will see, that with the MZ-S which can display the right values, with the FA 3.5-4.7 28-80 and the FA 3.8-5.6 28-200 the display is wrong. regards Rüdiger > >> Hallo, I need some help. >> The MZ-S displays also odd aperture values like 1.9, 1.8, 3.2 in the >> viewfinder. The Z1p and the MZ-5n shows instead 2, 1.7, 3.5. >> The min and max aperture values of a lens were transmited by the contacts of >> the KA-mount. A lens from 2.8 - 22 has a certain pattern of the 6 pins. It >> is not possible to transmit values like 1.9 in that way. >> So there have been a change in the protokoll of the 7th pin which >> transmitted the focal lenth and the distance of F/FA lense. It must also >> transmit the exact aperture value. >> For that there must be a change in the lense and in the camera. >> I have the question which lense and since when transmitted the exact values >> and which camera can read it besides the MZ-S. >> I have tested some lenses with odd apertures with the MZ-S. But some lenses >> are missing. (see list) >> I'm also interessted if the new bodies like the MZ-6/L can read the new >> protokol. >> >> Here is my list with a lot of ??? in order of the lens and camera >> appearance. >> >> K-mount F/FA lenses with odd aperture values which can/cannot transmit exact >> aperature values: >> >> FA 3.5-4.7 28-80 PZ since 1991no >> F4.7-5.6 80-200 black since 1994?? >> FA 3.8-5.6 28-200 since 1996no >> FA 1.9/43 since 1997yes >> FA 4.7-5.6 80-200 silversince 1999 ?? >> FA 1.8/77 since 1999yes >> FA 4.7-5.8 100-300 since 2000?? >> A 1.2/50 for LX2000 since 2000?? >> FA 1.8/31 since 2001 ?? >> FA 3.2-4.5 28-105 since 2001yes >> >> Cameras which can/cannot display the exact aperature values: >> >> Z-1p 1995 no >> MZ-5n1997 no >> MZ-7/MX-7 1999 ?? >> MZ-S 2001yes >> MZ-L/MX-6 2001?? >> MZ-60 2002?? >> >> Can you please fill in the lists at the questionmarks >> Thanks >> Rüdiger Neumann >> >> P.S: It is interesting, that this protokol which was already in a lens since >> 1997 (1.9/43) was used the first time ?? in a camera in 2001. >> >
Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
Rüdiger wrote: > you are wrong. If you look in my list, you will see, that with the MZ-S > which can display the right values, with the FA 3.5-4.7 28-80 and the FA > 3.8-5.6 28-200 the display is wrong. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not convinced. What you describe above is most likely due to the fact that these consumer zooms don't transmit absolute accurate aperture but approximate ones. Pål
Re: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
>From Pal >I don't believe that the MZ-S has FA3 mount. The specification sheet says KAF2 and I cannot find any reason why they would spread desinformation. I wouldn't hold my breath for KAF3 mount to be shown at Photokina either (I would love to be proven wrong though). When or if such a mount appears, my guess is that it will for a new series of cameras. > Hallo Pal, I do not think that the MZ-S has a new KFA3 mount. But I find it obvious that the have change something in the protokol of the data transfer of the 7th pin which is still in the specification of the KAF2 mount. And I'm now courios if this can be used on all newer cameras of if that is something special of the MZ-S. Therefore I'm interesting on a user which has a MZ-6 and a lens with a odd aperature value. But the replays on such technical thinks are not very high, a joke about the pope seems to be on interest. regards Rüdiger
Re[2]: Need Info from MZ-S and MZ-L/6/7 users (was: Has the MZ-S already a new mount?)
kinda feels good looking at cameras built back when "the men were the real men", etc (including those furry green creatures from a-centauri). transmitting exact aperture in infinitesimal increments with any lens. kinda like LX. man, I love the progress! :) Mishka -Original Message- From: Pål Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <...> Probably also reported apertures transmitted from the lens varies with the price of the lens. Eg,. Canon non-L lenses set aperture in 1/4 stops while the L-lenses use 1/12 of a stop. So the differences in "accurate" apertures is probably a function of whats coded into the lens CPU.
