Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Well, I use Pentax cameras and lenses because they work for me. Lots of people de like my photographs and quite often people pay me to make photographs of this and that. In fact, my clients NEVER ask me about what brand of gear I use. The couldn't care less - they just look at my photographs - and pay the bill. I am OK with the fact, that others use other barnds :-) Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 9, 2008 15:55 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > .t > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Yes, JD Power seleced the categories. Consmers who own the cameras rated them. Paul -- Original message -- From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The 'rating factors' are Picture Quality, Performance, Operation, and > Appearance. Presumably J D Power (if not them, then who?) decided that > these were the key factors on which to rate cameras and question > consumers, so J D Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > significant. QED. > > Bob > > > > > > They're not "rating" them. They're reporting consumer > > satisfaction numbers. > > Paul > > -- Original message -- > > From: Joseph McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > > > > > > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > > > > > > > .t > > > > > > If J.D. Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > > significant, > > > then in my book anything they rate is bullshit. > > > > > > Joseph > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Bob W wrote: > Not one of the market researchers has ever asked me what rating > factors I consider important That's because self-reporting of that kind of information is notoriously unreliable. People often don't tell researchers what factors they really do consider. In determining what factors to ask consumers about, it's probably more useful to ask camera salesmen. I've worked in camera shops and know many others who have also. They'll tell you that consumers consider appearance, but few of the consumers who do will admit to it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
> Bob W wrote: > > The 'rating factors' are Picture Quality, Performance, > Operation, and > > Appearance. Presumably J D Power (if not them, then who?) > decided that > > these were the key factors on which to rate cameras and question > > consumers, so J D Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > > significant. QED. > > I don't think that's the case: J D Power is simply *aware* of > the fact > that *consumers* consider appearance in buying decisions. I > don't think > cunsumers are right to do so in the case of cameras, but it's > certainly > not inappropriate for J D Powers to acknowledge the fact. > That sounds rather mystical to me. Whenever I've been interrogated by market researchers they've had a list of questions and rating factors. Not one of the market researchers has ever asked me what rating factors I consider important, whatever type of product they've asked me about. It's like asking 'Which is your favourite colour: Puce, Taupe or Red'. They then tell us that 73.51% of consumers prefer red to any other colour. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Bob W wrote: > The 'rating factors' are Picture Quality, Performance, Operation, and > Appearance. Presumably J D Power (if not them, then who?) decided that > these were the key factors on which to rate cameras and question > consumers, so J D Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > significant. QED. I don't think that's the case: J D Power is simply *aware* of the fact that *consumers* consider appearance in buying decisions. I don't think cunsumers are right to do so in the case of cameras, but it's certainly not inappropriate for J D Powers to acknowledge the fact. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
The 'rating factors' are Picture Quality, Performance, Operation, and Appearance. Presumably J D Power (if not them, then who?) decided that these were the key factors on which to rate cameras and question consumers, so J D Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is significant. QED. Bob > > They're not "rating" them. They're reporting consumer > satisfaction numbers. > Paul > -- Original message -- > From: Joseph McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > > > > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > > > > > .t > > > > If J.D. Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > significant, > > then in my book anything they rate is bullshit. > > > > Joseph -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
They're not "rating" them. They're reporting consumer satisfaction numbers. Paul -- Original message -- From: Joseph McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > > > .t > > If J.D. Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is significant, > then in my book anything they rate is bullshit. > > Joseph > > P.S. What is the point of lumping the most expensive models and the > least expensive consumer models all into one catagory? > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Paul. it has always been this way. When I would go on assignments with my film Pentax cameras to cover news and sporting events, I would always be the only Pentax shooter in the midst of many Nikon and a few Canon shooters.Even when I would go into Pro photo stores, they would ask me why I still shoot with Pentax. Many of the camera store owners did not even know that Pentax had a LX and fast glass. So I guess it also comes down to Pentax marketing. I forget who on this list said to me, " That who says you can not shoot sports with Pentax Cameras" I still have all my Pentax stuff do hope that they bring out a nice new digital slr cameraThay's my rant for now...Joe -- Original message -- From: Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Adam Maas wrote: > > . > > Canon and Nikon have a much larger percentage of true consumers and > > non-fanboy Pro shooters, > > I would think Canon and Nikon have a much larger /number/ of true > consumers and non-fanboy Pro shooter. However, they're also the > number one sellers in big box stores and far and away the first > choice of newbies. So I think it's almost certain that they have a > far larger percentage of first-time DSLR buyers than Pentax, Sony or > Olympus. Thus, a larger number of buyers who are satisfied and in > love with their first real camera. > Paul > > > > -Adam > > > > On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Paul Stenquist > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great > >> lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for > >> what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's > >> more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That > >> kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became > >> politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of > >> owner love, not necessarily quality. Pentax owners are notorious > >> whiners, and there are probably a much lower percentage of non- > >> critical newbie photographers among Pentax users than either Canon or > >> Nikon. Take it all with a grain of salt. (However, I'm sure Pentax is > >> not pleased. J.D. Power has considerable sway in the marketplace.) > >> Paul > >> On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>> http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/ > >>> dslr > >>> > >>> It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > >>> > >>> .t > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>> PDML@pdml.net > >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > >>> and follow the directions. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > >> and follow the directions. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > M. Adam Maas > > http://www.mawz.ca > > Explorations of the City Around Us. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > > and follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
> > > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > > > .t > > If J.D. Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is > significant, > then in my book anything they rate is bullshit. > > Joseph > > P.S. What is the point of lumping the most expensive models and the > least expensive consumer models all into one catagory? > I'm thrilled to be informed that I have a good-looking camera. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
On Aug 9, 2008, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > .t If J.D. Power thinks rating DSLRs on their appearance is significant, then in my book anything they rate is bullshit. Joseph P.S. What is the point of lumping the most expensive models and the least expensive consumer models all into one catagory? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Adam Maas wrote: > . > Canon and Nikon have a much larger percentage of true consumers and > non-fanboy Pro shooters, I would think Canon and Nikon have a much larger /number/ of true consumers and non-fanboy Pro shooter. However, they're also the number one sellers in big box stores and far and away the first choice of newbies. So I think it's almost certain that they have a far larger percentage of first-time DSLR buyers than Pentax, Sony or Olympus. Thus, a larger number of buyers who are satisfied and in love with their first real camera. Paul > > -Adam > > On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Paul Stenquist > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great >> lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for >> what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's >> more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That >> kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became >> politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of >> owner love, not necessarily quality. Pentax owners are notorious >> whiners, and there are probably a much lower percentage of non- >> critical newbie photographers among Pentax users than either Canon or >> Nikon. Take it all with a grain of salt. (However, I'm sure Pentax is >> not pleased. J.D. Power has considerable sway in the marketplace.) >> Paul >> On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/ >>> dslr >>> >>> It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... >>> >>> .t >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>> and follow the directions. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >> and follow the directions. >> > > > > -- > M. Adam Maas > http://www.mawz.ca > Explorations of the City Around Us. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
- Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic > JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great > lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for > what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's > more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That > kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became > politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of > owner love, not necessarily quality. This is why I don't trust them for vehicle ratings, especially trucks. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
Just tagging a little more info onto Paul's post. After JD Power takes and publishes the survey data, the subjects of the survey are offered the opportunity to use the results in their advertising. If you want to use a photo of the JD Power award or the like, you will pay a hefty fee to JD Power. You may also choose to buy more detailed survey data from JD Power. There is little doubt in my mind of their independence. They've figured out how their business works, and to not attempt to maintain some semblance of independence would kill their business. That being said, they are asking for opinions. The opinion info is usually of much more value to the producer than the consumer. gs On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great > lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for > what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's > more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That > kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became > politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of > owner love, not necessarily quality. Pentax owners are notorious > whiners, and there are probably a much lower percentage of non- > critical newbie photographers among Pentax users than either Canon or > Nikon. Take it all with a grain of salt. (However, I'm sure Pentax is > not pleased. J.D. Power has considerable sway in the marketplace.) > Paul > On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr >> >> It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... >> >> .t >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >> and follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
I should note that it's 'serious photographers' who are notorious whiners, the phenomenon is not unique to Pentax (Spend some time over at Dyxum.com and you'll see it gets just as bad as Pentaxforums). Canon and Nikon have a much larger percentage of true consumers and non-fanboy Pro shooters, who both only care about whether or not the damned things work, not whether or not the MTF graph is a little weak at 40lpm or if the AF is off by .5mm at 2m range. -Adam On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great > lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for > what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's > more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That > kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became > politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of > owner love, not necessarily quality. Pentax owners are notorious > whiners, and there are probably a much lower percentage of non- > critical newbie photographers among Pentax users than either Canon or > Nikon. Take it all with a grain of salt. (However, I'm sure Pentax is > not pleased. J.D. Power has considerable sway in the marketplace.) > Paul > On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr >> >> It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... >> >> .t >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >> and follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Huh? An 'independent' statistic
JD Power is very independent, and the organization goes to great lengths to remain so. However, one has to judge JD Power data for what it is: a measure of customer satisfaction. In other words, it's more a barometer of fanboy support than product performance. That kind of data helped fuel import car sales in the U.S. when it became politically correct to own an imported vehicle. It's a measure of owner love, not necessarily quality. Pentax owners are notorious whiners, and there are probably a much lower percentage of non- critical newbie photographers among Pentax users than either Canon or Nikon. Take it all with a grain of salt. (However, I'm sure Pentax is not pleased. J.D. Power has considerable sway in the marketplace.) Paul On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr > > It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... > > .t > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Huh? An 'independent' statistic
http://www.jdpower.com/electronics/ratings/digital-camera-ratings/dslr It made me LOL. Surely not 'sponsored' by Canon... .t -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
