Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
> Bought new: > > Pentax K2 > Pentax ME (black) > Pentax ME winder > Pentax LX (three) > Pentax LX finders (most of them) > Pentax LX winder > Pentax Z-1p > Pentax MZ-S > Pentax 280T flash > Pentax 400T Flash > Pentax 500FTZ(?) flash > > Pentax 18/3.5 > Pentax A 24/2.8 > Pentax FA Limited 31/1.8 > Pentax A 35/2.8 > Pentax FA Limited 43/1.9 > Pentax M 50/1.7 > Pentax A 50/1.2 > Pentax FA Limited 77/1.8 > Pentax FA* 85/1.4 > Pentax A* 200/4 Macro > Pentax FA* 200/4 Macro > Pentax A* 300/2.8 > Pentax A 400/5.6 > Pentax FA* 600/4 > Pentax 1000/11 Reflex > Pentax M 28-50/3.5 > Pentax M 80-200/4.5 > Pentax A 35-135/4.5 > Pentax FA* 28-70/2.8 > > > Pentax 645N > Pentax FA645 33-55/4.5 > Pentax FA645 45/2.8 > Pentax FA 75/2.8 > Pentax FA 120/4 Macro Awesome! --Mike
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 05:05 PM, Bruce Dayton wrote: > > > > > I can assure you, that as each product is contemplated, careful > > consideration is given to it's ability to make money. Consumer demand > > comes from people who buy new things. So if we list all the stuff we > > bought new, how many would actually be Pentax consumers? I'll be a danmed good customer Bought new: Pentax K2 Pentax ME (black) Pentax ME winder Pentax LX (three) Pentax LX finders (most of them) Pentax LX winder Pentax Z-1p Pentax MZ-S Pentax 280T flash Pentax 400T Flash Pentax 500FTZ(?) flash Pentax 18/3.5 Pentax A 24/2.8 Pentax FA Limited 31/1.8 Pentax A 35/2.8 Pentax FA Limited 43/1.9 Pentax M 50/1.7 Pentax A 50/1.2 Pentax FA Limited 77/1.8 Pentax FA* 85/1.4 Pentax A* 200/4 Macro Pentax FA* 200/4 Macro Pentax A* 300/2.8 Pentax A 400/5.6 Pentax FA* 600/4 Pentax 1000/11 Reflex Pentax M 28-50/3.5 Pentax M 80-200/4.5 Pentax A 35-135/4.5 Pentax FA* 28-70/2.8 Pentax 645N Pentax FA645 33-55/4.5 Pentax FA645 45/2.8 Pentax FA 75/2.8 Pentax FA 120/4 Macro
Re[3]: Hypothetical Question taken further...
Hi, Wednesday, December 18, 2002, 11:05:39 PM, you wrote: > I think one of Brad's points is that *many* on this list don't buy new > stuff no matter what Pentax makes. Even if they made the kind of > stuff you want, at the prices it would cost to make it, would you buy > new? Probably not. [...] When I had nearly $20K worth of retail spending power from my insurance claim to spend on new equipment, I'd have been happy to put it into Pentax-san's pockets, but he didn't have anything I wanted, so I bought Contax. Even when I was buying mostly used Pentax stuff I did buy a fair amount of new equipment. Somebody who has 4 or 5 cameras and a dozen or so lenses all bought used is still quite likely to spend more on new equipment, I'd have thought, than somebody who buys a low-end body and lens kit and sticks with that forever. --- Bob "Our heads are round so that our thoughts can fly in any direction" Francis Picabia
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
Sorry, Brad, But, I think you've got the whole marketing thing backwards (I'm saying this from the viewpoint of someone who knows ~nothing~ about marketing, btw). I shouldn't have to buy the "latest and greatest" equipment, to support my favourite company, so they can bring out something that I don't really care about right now (ie: a dslr), so the company can stay solvent. I'm the consumer, dammit! They (Pentax or anyone else) should cater to ~me~! If they don't, I don't buy new stuff from them. Simple as that. Pentax doesn't make the type of camera that I prefer, being an affordable, nicely featured mechanical metal-bodied camera. But, who does? No one, at least not a 35mm slr - and I don't count the N FM3, since it ain't exactly affordable. Mind you, I'm not saying that Pentax ~should~ make what I want. They stuck with the K1000 for almost 25 years, and made it as cheaply as they could, eventually making it in 3rd world countries, and substituting much plastic for what was once metal, both inside and out. They obviously weren't making money off it, so they stopped making it - and that's fine. The only camera I can think of offhand that fits the bill right now is the Voigtlander Bessa R (the top plate isn't metal, but the chassis is, so I'll forgive them for that). I might have bought one, but Dave Chang-Sang sold me his Leica CL for about 1/2 the price of a new Bessa and lens. So, I'll keep buying used, until Pentax comes up with something new that I want, and I ain't holding my breath. Of course, I'm now invested in k mount and m42 gear, so I can't afford to change systems - not that I want to, 'cause I like what I have. But I certainly will make no apologies for sticking with the used market, nor should I have to. cheers, frank Brad Dobo wrote: > Just a thought. Many here (but not all) like and use the older gear, to get > additional items, or replacements, they buy used equipment (not all the > time, but most I assume). What do I think? To each his own. More power to > you if you can really 'work' the older equipment. Now, I'm not a perfect > example, since I've now bought 2 items used, including a manual focus lens. > However, we all talk about Pentax and their position, rank and financial, > and what they will be in the future, and really..what about that darned > DSLR? What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are the serious amateurs, > or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat representative. If we don't > buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can we expect them to > develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to buy > one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop and manufacture and > sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, helping them do that? If > they know their real fans like the old over the new, and buy used, why put > the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm flagship for that matter? > Just something to toss about. > > [The opinions represented in this email are by no means that of the > originator of the email. ] > > Happy Holidays! > -- "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further
On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 09:05 AM, Steve Desjardins wrote: To support the upcoming Pentax DSLR release, I enclose $50___$100 $6000__ Please send me the free T-Shirt and my PDML membership for the next year. That had better be a 14 Mp T-shirt for $6K . . . To support the upcoming Pentax DSLR release, I enclose Best Wishes $50___$100 $6000__ Please send me the free T-Shirt and my PDML membership for the next year. Dan Scott
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further
To support the upcoming Pentax DSLR release, I enclose $50___$100 $6000__ Please send me the free T-Shirt and my PDML membership for the next year. That had better be a 14 Mp T-shirt for $6K . . . Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further
Dear Sir: To support the upcoming Pentax DSLR release, I enclose $50___$100 $6000__ Please send me the free T-Shirt and my PDML membership for the next year. best, mishka > From: Brad Dobo > Subject: Hypothetical Question taken further... > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:51:11 -0800 > > --- (...) > If we don't buy all the latest and greatest from > Pentax, how can we expect them to develop for us, a > DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to > buy one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to > develop and manufacture and sell worldwide a DSLR. > Are we, in general terms, helping them do that?
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
In a message dated 12/18/2002 1:28:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, MAILER-DAEMON writes: > In a message dated 12/17/2002 11:50:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are the serious amateurs, > > or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat representative. If we don't > > buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can we expect them to > > develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to buy > > one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop and manufacture and > > sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, helping them do that? If > > they know their real fans like the old over the new, and buy used, why put > > the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm flagship for > > that matter? > > Just something to toss about. > > Good point. I think the thing is about "feel" -- essentially the difference between >metal and plastic (although I choose the new camp). > > But the other point is price. > > I am a newbie, but one of the things it looks like Pentax has also been known for is >being mid-priced. So if they produce something almost as good as what is already out >there and retain their price reputation -- i.e. price it substantially lower than >others' current prices -- then they will definitely be noticed. Definitely. > > However, if they just match current prices, then it > probably will be a matter of "a day late and a dollar short." > > Doe aka Marnie
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
Trouble is Jim, unless any newly launched Pentax DSLR is earth shatteringly teeth clatteringly revolutionary, then it will be too little too late. Many of us will hang around because we know what we want (i.e. lenses) or we have heaps of money tied up in systems. But the one's a company needs are not just the repeat offenders like us! they need newbies (pro or otherwise). One day we'll all have gone to the big film lab in the sky, which I fear is where Pentax are heading as well, and there'll be no one lining up to buy into camera systems that average 4-6 years behind the market leaders... C'est La Vie... Cheers Shaun Jim Apilado wrote: Brad, I'm one of those older Pentax users who bought stuff during the screw mount days. I have lots of SMC Takumars that I use with my old Spotmatic and a couple of ESII bodies. I have some K-mount lenses to use with an old LX and a K2DMD. After playing with my Optio 230 I can see getting a dslr Pentax that might retro enough to allow use of the Takumars and K-mounts. Pentax needs to advertise more to get people to take notice of them. They will be a late player on the market with a dslr and need to get the word out that it can compete. Jim A. From: "Brad Dobo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:50:36 -0500 To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Hypothetical Question taken further... Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:50:32 -0500 Just a thought. Many here (but not all) like and use the older gear, to get additional items, or replacements, they buy used equipment (not all the time, but most I assume). What do I think? To each his own. More power to you if you can really 'work' the older equipment. Now, I'm not a perfect example, since I've now bought 2 items used, including a manual focus lens. However, we all talk about Pentax and their position, rank and financial, and what they will be in the future, and really..what about that darned DSLR? What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are the serious amateurs, or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat representative. If we don't buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can we expect them to develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to buy one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop and manufacture and sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, helping them do that? If they know their real fans like the old over the new, and buy used, why put the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm flagship for that matter? Just something to toss about. [The opinions represented in this email are by no means that of the originator of the email. ] Happy Holidays! Brad . -- Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Victoria, 3658. www.heritageservices.com.au/ Phone: 0414-967644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My images can be seen at www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=238096
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
--- Brad Dobo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > However, we all talk about Pentax and their > position, rank and financial, > and what they will be in the future, and > really..what about that darned > DSLR? What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are > the serious amateurs, > or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat > representative. If we don't > buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can > we expect them to > develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the > want and money to buy > one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop > and manufacture and > sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, > helping them do that? If > they know their real fans like the old over the new, > and buy used, why put > the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm > flagship for that matter? Hey Brad, That point has been made before on this list and it's a good one. One idea is that Pentax didn't really do a good job throughout the series of cameras they released. The K, M, and A series seem to have been rather well received. The P, SF, and to a large extent PZ series camera were not so well received. When comparing specs, I've often wondered why they even bothered with the P series. The SF cameras are rather ungainly with poor to mediocre autofocus and loud shutters. The PZ-1p stands out as a good/popular body though most would agree it was kept around far too long. Between the Super Program and the ZX-5n, we're talking about 10 years and around 10 bodies that were...well, blech! So I think there's a fan base that never moved along with Pentax through the series of bodies. I've met several Nikon photographers who talk of going from F3 to F4s to F5/F100 or FM/FE to FM2/FE2 to N8008 to N90s to F100. All the while, they progressed with the manufacturer. Nikon and Canon have earned their fan base through the years. I think Pentax lost alot of people after the ME Super/Super Program/LX years. They just stayed put with the cameras they had. Mark __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: Hypothetical Question taken further...
Brad, I'm one of those older Pentax users who bought stuff during the screw mount days. I have lots of SMC Takumars that I use with my old Spotmatic and a couple of ESII bodies. I have some K-mount lenses to use with an old LX and a K2DMD. After playing with my Optio 230 I can see getting a dslr Pentax that might retro enough to allow use of the Takumars and K-mounts. Pentax needs to advertise more to get people to take notice of them. They will be a late player on the market with a dslr and need to get the word out that it can compete. Jim A. > From: "Brad Dobo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:50:36 -0500 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Hypothetical Question taken further... > Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:50:32 -0500 > > Just a thought. Many here (but not all) like and use the older gear, to get > additional items, or replacements, they buy used equipment (not all the > time, but most I assume). What do I think? To each his own. More power to > you if you can really 'work' the older equipment. Now, I'm not a perfect > example, since I've now bought 2 items used, including a manual focus lens. > However, we all talk about Pentax and their position, rank and financial, > and what they will be in the future, and really..what about that darned > DSLR? What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are the serious amateurs, > or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat representative. If we don't > buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can we expect them to > develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to buy > one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop and manufacture and > sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, helping them do that? If > they know their real fans like the old over the new, and buy used, why put > the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm flagship for that matter? > Just something to toss about. > > [The opinions represented in this email are by no means that of the > originator of the email. ] > > Happy Holidays! > > Brad > > >
Hypothetical Question taken further...
Just a thought. Many here (but not all) like and use the older gear, to get additional items, or replacements, they buy used equipment (not all the time, but most I assume). What do I think? To each his own. More power to you if you can really 'work' the older equipment. Now, I'm not a perfect example, since I've now bought 2 items used, including a manual focus lens. However, we all talk about Pentax and their position, rank and financial, and what they will be in the future, and really..what about that darned DSLR? What I'm thinking is, we as a whole group are the serious amateurs, or professionals using Pentax. We are somewhat representative. If we don't buy all the latest and greatest from Pentax, how can we expect them to develop for us, a DSLR. We'd be the ones with the want and money to buy one. But Pentax needs money and a reason to develop and manufacture and sell worldwide a DSLR. Are we, in general terms, helping them do that? If they know their real fans like the old over the new, and buy used, why put the effort into a DSLR? Or a better new 35mm flagship for that matter? Just something to toss about. [The opinions represented in this email are by no means that of the originator of the email. ] Happy Holidays! Brad
