Re: K-7 composition shift question
Enough to support 11mm of shift on a 35mm frame. There's a couple 35mm mount tilt/shift adapters available that use P645 lenses, usually the FA35. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
Shift with the sensor is possible if I understood things correctly. However, ther's not a lot of space for the sensor to move, e few millimiteres at best. It may help, it is nice to be able to, but it won't replace a true shift lens. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:08 PM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, lets presume that it's a perfect world snip The optimist says this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears he is right. -- J. Robert Oppenheimer cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
11mm of movement may not very much, except when you're talking about it in terms of moving the APS-C sized sensor, within the camera body. Then you're looking at a movement that's 45% of the sensor's long axis and 69% of it's short axis, with a commensurate increase in the size of the mirror box, mirror, prism, etc or a maybe a live view only camera, which would still be larger than a K20D in most dimensions, except for possibly the lack of a prism hump. A specialized camera like that might be possible but not as a general purpose SLR or even EVIL camera. Now if you plan to use lenses for 24x36mm lenses you get 8mm of movement in either direction, 33% movement in long axis and 50% on the short axis, but Pentax seems to have stopped using the old 35mm mirror boxes and mirrors with end of the *ist-D series. Now the K7d by all accounts, (well the two I've read so far anyway), state the it's shutter and mirror are exceptionally quite, which is probably made possible partly by it's APS-C sized components. So why Pentax would give that up to build a camera with a larger noisier shutter mirror assembly I cannot fathom. If you want to use medium format lenses you can already get shift adapters from Pentacon-6 mount to K mount. http://araxfoto.com/accessories/shift/ I'm sure you could have one made for 645 or 6x7 lenses. This likely to be the state of art for some time to come. Adam Maas wrote: Enough to support 11mm of shift on a 35mm frame. There's a couple 35mm mount tilt/shift adapters available that use P645 lenses, usually the FA35. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 05:08:52PM -0600, William Robb scripsit: - Original Message - From: Graydon Or maybe I'm just confused, and I'm not sure I can manage ASCII art diagrams for the first couple floors being right here, nicely parallel to the sensor, and the top two floors, fifteen floors above those first two floors, not being (in perspective) parallel, although actually in parallel unless it's a very funky building. Ok, lets presume that it's a perfect world, because it makes the explanation easier. It certainly does! The walls of the building are perpendicular to the absolutely level ground you are standing on. If the sensor/film is also perpendicular to the ground, it will be parallel to the walls of the building. In this scenario, there will be no keystoning. Keystoning (actually, I think this is when the building appears to be tilted forwards due to over correction, but I'll happily misuse the term because it's one that doesn't see the light of day often enough) arises when the building is taller than the lens in use can capture, and so the camera must be tilted upwards to capture the netire building. As soon as that happens, the building will have the falling over backwards look. Ah, ok! I thought keystoning meant the apparent divergence of actually parallel lines. The ways to correct it are: back off far enough that you get the entire building in the picture without having to tilt the camera, and then crop out the forground, or move the lens up or film/sensor downwards (with the camera set up square and perpendicular to the ground) or a combination of the two to get the entire building in the picture (generally this is a view camera thing, rarely do shift lenses have enough movement), or take the picture with the camera tilted upwards and correct the image during processing, either with the transform perspective tool in Photoshop (or whatever passes for the same thing in the software you are using) or if you are shooting film, tilt the easel to correct the image (only works if the mage is only slightly skewed due to depth of focus considerations). Appreciate the explanation. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
I know it wouldn't be very feasible in an APS sized camera. That's why I specifically mentioned that perhaps we might see such a feature in the reportedly upcoming 645D. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: 11mm of movement may not very much, except when you're talking about it in terms of moving the APS-C sized sensor, within the camera body. Then you're looking at a movement that's 45% of the sensor's long axis and 69% of it's short axis, with a commensurate increase in the size of the mirror box, mirror, prism, etc or a maybe a live view only camera, which would still be larger than a K20D in most dimensions, except for possibly the lack of a prism hump. A specialized camera like that might be possible but not as a general purpose SLR or even EVIL camera. Now if you plan to use lenses for 24x36mm lenses you get 8mm of movement in either direction, 33% movement in long axis and 50% on the short axis, but Pentax seems to have stopped using the old 35mm mirror boxes and mirrors with end of the *ist-D series. Now the K7d by all accounts, (well the two I've read so far anyway), state the it's shutter and mirror are exceptionally quite, which is probably made possible partly by it's APS-C sized components. So why Pentax would give that up to build a camera with a larger noisier shutter mirror assembly I cannot fathom. If you want to use medium format lenses you can already get shift adapters from Pentacon-6 mount to K mount. http://araxfoto.com/accessories/shift/ I'm sure you could have one made for 645 or 6x7 lenses. This likely to be the state of art for some time to come. Adam Maas wrote: Enough to support 11mm of shift on a 35mm frame. There's a couple 35mm mount tilt/shift adapters available that use P645 lenses, usually the FA35. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
I should have read the post I was responding to better please ignore. P. J. Alling wrote: 11mm of movement may not very much, except when you're talking about it in terms of moving the APS-C sized sensor, within the camera body. Then you're looking at a movement that's 45% of the sensor's long axis and 69% of it's short axis, with a commensurate increase in the size of the mirror box, mirror, prism, etc or a maybe a live view only camera, which would still be larger than a K20D in most dimensions, except for possibly the lack of a prism hump. A specialized camera like that might be possible but not as a general purpose SLR or even EVIL camera. Now if you plan to use lenses for 24x36mm lenses you get 8mm of movement in either direction, 33% movement in long axis and 50% on the short axis, but Pentax seems to have stopped using the old 35mm mirror boxes and mirrors with end of the *ist-D series. Now the K7d by all accounts, (well the two I've read so far anyway), state the it's shutter and mirror are exceptionally quite, which is probably made possible partly by it's APS-C sized components. So why Pentax would give that up to build a camera with a larger noisier shutter mirror assembly I cannot fathom. If you want to use medium format lenses you can already get shift adapters from Pentacon-6 mount to K mount. http://araxfoto.com/accessories/shift/ I'm sure you could have one made for 645 or 6x7 lenses. This likely to be the state of art for some time to come. Adam Maas wrote: Enough to support 11mm of shift on a 35mm frame. There's a couple 35mm mount tilt/shift adapters available that use P645 lenses, usually the FA35. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
- Original Message - From: Graydon Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question Appreciate the explanation. I think I owed you one. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On May 21, 2009, at 02:08 , Thibouille wrote: Shift with the sensor is possible if I understood things correctly. However, ther's not a lot of space for the sensor to move, e few millimiteres at best. It may help, it is nice to be able to, but it won't replace a true shift lens. I agree. However, it will, would add an extension of what the shift lenses are capable of. I can't guess by how much though. Someone could figure out the difference in subject movement at infinity vs image movement at the focal plane for given lenses. Not my bailiwick. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
K-7 composition shift question
So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 05:18:02PM -0500, Nick Wright scripsit: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? The sensor moves left to right, up and down, and rotates around its centre axis, but all within the focal plane. To correct keystone effects, you'd have to be able to tilt the sensor relative to the focal plane, which I don't think you can do. If you *could* tilt the sensor relative to the nominal focal plane, it opens up some interesting possibilities but it would also cause problems with figuring out what, exactly, might be in focus at any given time, so I don't think that will happen. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 05:18:02PM -0500, Nick Wright scripsit: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? The sensor moves left to right, up and down, and rotates around its centre axis, but all within the focal plane. To correct keystone effects, you'd have to be able to tilt the sensor relative to the focal plane, which I don't think you can do. If you *could* tilt the sensor relative to the nominal focal plane, it opens up some interesting possibilities but it would also cause problems with figuring out what, exactly, might be in focus at any given time, so I don't think that will happen. -- Graydon Actually, you can correct for keystoning via sensor shift, but likely not by a sufficient amount for it to matter. Tilt is rarely used to correct perspective, but rather to use the Scheimpflug effect to control DoF. Keystoning is corrected by positioning the camera parallel to the subject and using shift to move the image circle to get the desired composition. Doing so for more than very minor amounts would require far more sensor shift capability than is present in the SR system. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
- Original Message - From: Graydon Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question To correct keystone effects, you'd have to be able to tilt the sensor relative to the focal plane, which I don't think you can do. This isn't correct. To correct keystoning, the sensor has to be parallel to the object being photographed. With a view camera, generally one would raise the lens to include the top of the building, I suppose with sensor shift, one could lower the sensor to do the same thing. I don't think there will be enough sensor shift to make a heck of a lot of difference WRT this. I expect it will still be something best done in post processing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 04:35:11PM -0600, William Robb scripsit: - Original Message - From: Graydon Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question To correct keystone effects, you'd have to be able to tilt the sensor relative to the focal plane, which I don't think you can do. This isn't correct. To correct keystoning, the sensor has to be parallel to the object being photographed. Parallel, parallel, or perspective parallel? -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
- Original Message - From: Graydon Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question This isn't correct. To correct keystoning, the sensor has to be parallel to the object being photographed. Parallel, parallel, or perspective parallel? I think you are stuttering. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 04:45:58PM -0600, William Robb scripsit: - Original Message - Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question This isn't correct. To correct keystoning, the sensor has to be parallel to the object being photographed. Parallel, parallel, or perspective parallel? I think you are stuttering. Plausibly. Or maybe I'm just confused, and I'm not sure I can manage ASCII art diagrams for the first couple floors being right here, nicely parallel to the sensor, and the top two floors, fifteen floors above those first two floors, not being (in perspective) parallel, although actually in parallel unless it's a very funky building. -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
- Original Message - From: Graydon Subject: Re: K-7 composition shift question Or maybe I'm just confused, and I'm not sure I can manage ASCII art diagrams for the first couple floors being right here, nicely parallel to the sensor, and the top two floors, fifteen floors above those first two floors, not being (in perspective) parallel, although actually in parallel unless it's a very funky building. Ok, lets presume that it's a perfect world, because it makes the explanation easier. The walls of the building are perpendicular to the absolutely level ground you are standing on. If the sensor/film is also perpendicular to the ground, it will be parallel to the walls of the building. In this scenario, there will be no keystoning. Keystoning (actually, I think this is when the building appears to be tilted forwards due to over correction, but I'll happily misuse the term because it's one that doesn't see the light of day often enough) arises when the building is taller than the lens in use can capture, and so the camera must be tilted upwards to capture the netire building. As soon as that happens, the building will have the falling over backwards look. The ways to correct it are: back off far enough that you get the entire building in the picture without having to tilt the camera, and then crop out the forground, or move the lens up or film/sensor downwards (with the camera set up square and perpendicular to the ground) or a combination of the two to get the entire building in the picture (generally this is a view camera thing, rarely do shift lenses have enough movement), or take the picture with the camera tilted upwards and correct the image during processing, either with the transform perspective tool in Photoshop (or whatever passes for the same thing in the software you are using) or if you are shooting film, tilt the easel to correct the image (only works if the mage is only slightly skewed due to depth of focus considerations). William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
8-11m on most 35mm or MF format SLR lenses, several cm to several inches on a large format camera. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
Impressive - that would put it in the next room. :-) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:59:02PM -0400, Adam Maas wrote: 8-11m on most 35mm or MF format SLR lenses, several cm to several inches on a large format camera. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. ? ? ? ?--G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
mm of course, my bad;-) -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:02 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Impressive - that would put it in the next room. :-) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:59:02PM -0400, Adam Maas wrote: 8-11m on most 35mm or MF format SLR lenses, several cm to several inches on a large format camera. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. ? ? ? ?--G. K. Chesterton -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
8-11m 8 meters is a lot of shift! (I think you meant /mm/ ) Adam Maas wrote: 8-11m on most 35mm or MF format SLR lenses, several cm to several inches on a large format camera. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? As much as I love to shoot old buildings I would think that would be a huge feature. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:16 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: 8-11m 8 meters is a lot of shift! (I think you meant /mm/ ) Adam Maas wrote: 8-11m on most 35mm or MF format SLR lenses, several cm to several inches on a large format camera. -Adam On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Nick Wright nickwright1...@gmail.com wrote: After I posted the question I saw the imaging resources page which says I believe that the sensor can be shifted 2mm up or down. On a shift lens what kind of travel is there? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:49 PM, P. J. Alling p_all...@hotmail.com wrote: I doubt that there's enough shift involved to do that. Nick Wright wrote: So this new feature that allows you to shift the sensor for composition. Would that allow you to use the sensor in a similar (though very limited) way as a shift lens? Could you use that function to correct a slight amount of keystoning in architecture for example? -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: K-7 composition shift question
Well, I'm pretty sure it's at least 75mm in diameter :-) Seriously, though, it depends very much on the lens. And even then it's not necessarily a hard-and-fast boundary; image quality generally tails off as you get to the edges. Unfortunately it's usually the shorter focal lengths that are most subject to image circle limitations, and those tend to be the lenses where shift would be most useful. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 09:02:40PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: Sure, do we know how large the image circle of a typical FA645 lens is? On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:56 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 08:49:54PM -0500, Nick Wright wrote: 8-11mm isn't a terrible lot of movement. I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a sensor shift of that magnitude in say a medium format digital body? Can you imagine that? It wouldn't give you tilt control (but perhaps that wouldn't be that hard to put in either?) but just think being able to apply shift to any lens you put on the body? That only works if the image circle of the lens is large enough, otherwise you're going to have serious vignetting problems. TANSTAAFL. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- ~Nick David Wright http://www.nickdavidwright.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
