Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On 4 June 2013 07:05, steve harley wrote: > not necessarily; there are distributed "cloud" systems that are well out of > the control of a single institution; the internet itself is in many ways > such a system, and many of us already stored a lot of our information on a > server somewhere, before "cloud" parlance took hold > > i think we are in a transition state where megacorps are rushing to > capitalize on cloud potential, but where things may settle to a much less > proprietary norm; we do need awareness, open APIs and even a bit of fear to > continue to drive the process past the gold-rush stage > > meanwhile i predict continued disruption of a lot of major commercial > services and software companies, Adobe included, and lots of people who will > feel disregarded or left behind Great insight and probably more than a few grains of truth. Cheers, -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
on 2013-05-31 23:06 Philip Northeast wrote On of the drivers for the success of the Personal Computer for business use was the wresting control of software away from centralised bureaucracies and allowing users to choose and configure their own systems. Cloud computer is the return of centralised control. not necessarily; there are distributed "cloud" systems that are well out of the control of a single institution; the internet itself is in many ways such a system, and many of us already stored a lot of our information on a server somewhere, before "cloud" parlance took hold i think we are in a transition state where megacorps are rushing to capitalize on cloud potential, but where things may settle to a much less proprietary norm; we do need awareness, open APIs and even a bit of fear to continue to drive the process past the gold-rush stage meanwhile i predict continued disruption of a lot of major commercial services and software companies, Adobe included, and lots of people who will feel disregarded or left behind -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
That should be entrepreneur, not entrapment. Damned spell checker... We knew what you meant, even if you didn't. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
From: Mark C The thing that strikes me is the tone of "this is for your own good, even though you may not understand that." They are trying to define their customer's needs in terms of their own product, as opposed to developing products that respond to the customer's needs But then, I've heard that Henry Ford once said "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses." So maybe Adobe does know what they are doing Mark They're doing what they think is good for Adobe. But, do they know what's good for their customers? I think maybe not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
MEMO
From: Adobe
To: Photographer Scum
Hey idiots. You're supposed to switch to Lightroom! Get with the program.
From: Bruce Walker
Marnie, the "Cloud" word is a red herring. Nobody is requiring you to
save your files anywhere other than than what you do with them now. So
forget remote server, you save your files on your PC like you always
have. And your software still runs on your PC just as always. Nothing
processes In The Cloud somewhere. Once you install Photoshop, it's biz
as usual.
In this context, "Cloud" is Adobe marketing people smoking up and
saying, "Oooh yeah! Cloud is hip! Let's get that
cloud word in our product name somewhere." It could equally have been
Creative Unicorns. There are cloudy trimmings in the product, like the
Behance social site and the fact that you download the software "from
the cloud". But they are almost completely misusing the word Cloud as
IT people know it.
Basically Adobe has discontinued selling the Creative Suite
(Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc.) as boxed software. Instead
they are renting it to us in bundles, like cable TV channel packages.
So in theory you can get a lot of software for less money per month
than you used to pay for the entire Creative Suite plus upgrades every
1.5 years. That's great for professional graphic artists working for a
Fortune 500 firm.
But for free-lance or amateur photographers who just want Photoshop
for as little moola as possible, and expect to buy it like a book that
you keep forever, this move amounts to $20/month to Adobe for the rest
of your creative life. Because when you stop paying, the software
stops working. Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable.
It should be noted that photographers *should* be saving their files
in a non-proprietary form, like TIFF, JPEG or even DNG if you trust
Adobe's intentions for that format. But lots of folks have projects
saved away in PSD (Photoshop), etc., who want to open and work on them
from time to time.
Lightroom has been spared this tragic move; you will still buy it like
a book and pay for individual upgrades.
For now.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:40 AM, wrote:
Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
-- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server?
I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very
much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard
drives).
Marnie aka Doe
In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
worked
for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
ignored
it :-)
Gerrit
-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
In a nutshell:
"Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
and
"Golly, photographers are weird."
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow
the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
It's because we're an old, dying breed. This is aimed at today's kids
who have been programmed by the iPadPodPhone to expect everything to be
on the "cloud".
You'll be able to work on your photos anytime - anyplace you can find an
open Wi-Fi.
From: Eactivist
Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
-- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server?
I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very
much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard
drives).
Marnie aka Doe
In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
worked
for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
ignored
it :-)
Gerrit
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow
the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
on 2013-06-01 10:30 P.J. Alling wrote It's one thing to create a better product and let customers decide to buy it, if it better suits their needs they will, and modify your old product to lock existing customers into paying more, it's not quite that extreme; existing customers can still run their non-subscription software; at some point in two to four version you will probably hit a compatibility wall, but at that point what you will want or Adobe will offer is pretty hypothetical -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On 6/1/2013 8:36 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:59 AM, John Francis wrote: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 03:11:03PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. While "fogie" apparently has some acceptance as a variant spelling, I've almost always seen the word spelled "fogey" Only an Olde Foguey would quibble about the spelling. ;-) -- -bmw I think fogie is the feminine version of fogey. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
That should be entrepreneur, not entrapment. Damned spell checker... On 6/1/2013 12:30 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: It's one thing to create a better product and let customers decide to buy it, if it better suits their needs they will, and modify your old product to lock existing customers into paying more, The first is something any entrapment can do, the second requires a virtual monopoly. Ford didn't say you must use my automobile and pay a monthly fee for the privilege of driving it, he said you can buy my car or you can buy a horse, my car is better, and people agreed with him. On 6/1/2013 11:58 AM, Mark C wrote: The thing that strikes me is the tone of "this is for your own good, even though you may not understand that." They are trying to define their customer's needs in terms of their own product, as opposed to developing products that respond to the customer's needs But then, I've heard that Henry Ford once said "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses." So maybe Adobe does know what they are doing Mark On 5/29/2013 9:23 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ In a nutshell: "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" and "Golly, photographers are weird." -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
It's one thing to create a better product and let customers decide to buy it, if it better suits their needs they will, and modify your old product to lock existing customers into paying more, The first is something any entrapment can do, the second requires a virtual monopoly. Ford didn't say you must use my automobile and pay a monthly fee for the privilege of driving it, he said you can buy my car or you can buy a horse, my car is better, and people agreed with him. On 6/1/2013 11:58 AM, Mark C wrote: The thing that strikes me is the tone of "this is for your own good, even though you may not understand that." They are trying to define their customer's needs in terms of their own product, as opposed to developing products that respond to the customer's needs But then, I've heard that Henry Ford once said "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses." So maybe Adobe does know what they are doing Mark On 5/29/2013 9:23 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ In a nutshell: "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" and "Golly, photographers are weird." -- -bmw -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
The thing that strikes me is the tone of "this is for your own good, even though you may not understand that." They are trying to define their customer's needs in terms of their own product, as opposed to developing products that respond to the customer's needs But then, I've heard that Henry Ford once said "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses." So maybe Adobe does know what they are doing Mark On 5/29/2013 9:23 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ In a nutshell: "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" and "Golly, photographers are weird." -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
It's olde English. -Original Message- >From: Bruce Walker >Subject: Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception > >On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:59 AM, John Francis wrote: >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 03:11:03PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: >>> Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all >>> around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. >> >> While "fogie" apparently has some acceptance as a variant spelling, >> I've almost always seen the word spelled "fogey" > >Only an Olde Foguey would quibble about the spelling. ;-) > >-- >-bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:59 AM, John Francis wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 03:11:03PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: >> Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all >> around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. > > While "fogie" apparently has some acceptance as a variant spelling, > I've almost always seen the word spelled "fogey" Only an Olde Foguey would quibble about the spelling. ;-) -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 03:11:03PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all > around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. While "fogie" apparently has some acceptance as a variant spelling, I've almost always seen the word spelled "fogey" -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
I totally agree with that. M aka D In a message dated 5/31/2013 10:06:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rnort...@bigpond.net.au writes: On of the drivers for the success of the Personal Computer for business use was the wresting control of software away from centralised bureaucracies and allowing users to choose and configure their own systems. Cloud computer is the return of centralised control. Philip Northeast www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On Jun 1, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > Basically Adobe has discontinued selling the Creative Suite > (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc.) as boxed software. Instead > they are renting it to us in bundles, like cable TV channel packages. > So in theory you can get a lot of software for less money per month > than you used to pay for the entire Creative Suite plus upgrades every > 1.5 years. That's great for professional graphic artists working for a > Fortune 500 firm. Until the accountants tell them they're not allowed it as it comes under operational expenditure instead of the yearly capital budget :D > But for free-lance or amateur photographers who just want Photoshop > for as little moola as possible, and expect to buy it like a book that > you keep forever, this move amounts to $20/month to Adobe for the rest > of your creative life. Because when you stop paying, the software > stops working. Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable. I am still highly pissed off at Adobe for shutting down the old Macromedia activation servers. I have a copy of the 2004 MX Studio bundle which I can't even install anymore. I think that was about $1,000 worth of software which I would still find very useful if I could install it. This is why I'm now extremely hesitant to buy any product that relies on a web service to install or use. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
On of the drivers for the success of the Personal Computer for business use was the wresting control of software away from centralised bureaucracies and allowing users to choose and configure their own systems. Cloud computer is the return of centralised control. Philip Northeast www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au On 1/06/13 2:20 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: When Lightroom goes to the cloud, I'm leaving. I've been down this path before. 'We want to hold (control) that for you. Trust us, it will be better for you.' It's never as fast or good or reliable as having it in your own hands. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, steve harley wrote: on 2013-05-31 13:11 eactiv...@aol.com wrote Not sure I would ever trust anyone else to do it as well. as a very experienced software developer and consultant, i am amazed at the skill with which large, multiply-redundant cloud services are built (e.g. Amazon, Google); not that i'd trust them completely (in part for reasons other than reliability), just that i know i couldn't trust myself to do it as well -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
When Lightroom goes to the cloud, I'm leaving. I've been down this path before. 'We want to hold (control) that for you. Trust us, it will be better for you.' It's never as fast or good or reliable as having it in your own hands. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:19 PM, steve harley wrote: > on 2013-05-31 13:11 eactiv...@aol.com wrote > >> Not sure I would ever trust anyone else to do it as well. > > > as a very experienced software developer and consultant, i am amazed at the > skill with which large, multiply-redundant cloud services are built (e.g. > Amazon, Google); not that i'd trust them completely (in part for reasons > other than reliability), just that i know i couldn't trust myself to do it > as well > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Okay. Marnie aka Doe :-) Yeah, they probably do it better than I do. But I like my photos close by me. In a message dated 5/31/2013 1:19:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, p...@paper-ape.com writes: as a very experienced software developer and consultant, i am amazed at the skill with which large, multiply-redundant cloud services are built (e.g. Amazon, Google); not that i'd trust them completely (in part for reasons other than reliability), just that i know i couldn't trust myself to do it as well -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
on 2013-05-31 13:11 eactiv...@aol.com wrote Not sure I would ever trust anyone else to do it as well. as a very experienced software developer and consultant, i am amazed at the skill with which large, multiply-redundant cloud services are built (e.g. Amazon, Google); not that i'd trust them completely (in part for reasons other than reliability), just that i know i couldn't trust myself to do it as well -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
I used to fix mainframes in the 60's-80's. Even scarier how those used to
fail with few symptoms!
I use Windows Home Server as my backup/server platform. It duplicates all my
files on separate drives as well as full backups of our PC's. The server
manages 12TB for me. And I still do an offsite backup once a month or so,
esp. after adding a lot of photos like after our recent cruise (11,000
DNG's)
When I have to replace that server (WHS is now abonded), I will build a
server using some small motherboard, Windows 8 and Drive Bender
(http://www.drivebender.com/) to do the 'make it look like 1 big drive and
do duplication' stuff. I would prefer to use Windows Server Essentials 2012
but can't afford it (>$400).
I am waiting for a sale on Elements and will then upgrade to 11 from 9. That
should take care of my needs as I already use LR4. Until of course Bruce
educates me on layers at which point I will probably outgrow Elemnts :-(
Gerrit
-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of eactiv...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:11 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all
around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. And agree, Peter, I can do
it cheaper myself than I could by subscription.
Guess I better upgrade my LR and Elements before it/they becomes/become
cloud. Not sure Elements hasn't already, but one can usually find older
copies (using 8 now).
Well, I've been a computer programmer, so I have an inherent distrust of
the reliability of any computer/computer-related hardware. Uh, they fail,
from time to time. One should have lots of redundancy. I trust me to do
that.
Not sure I would ever trust anyone else to do it as well.
Marnie aka Doe ;-)
In a message dated 5/31/2013 9:49:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Marnie, the "Cloud" word is a red herring. Nobody is requiring you to save
your files anywhere other than than what you do with them now. So forget
remote server, you save your files on your PC like you always have. And
your software still runs on your PC just as always. Nothing processes In
The Cloud somewhere. Once you install Photoshop, it's biz as usual.
In this context, "Cloud" is Adobe marketing people smoking up and saying,
"Oooh yeah! Cloud is hip! Let's get that cloud word in our
product name somewhere." It could equally have been Creative Unicorns.
There are cloudy trimmings in the product, like the Behance social site and
the fact that you download the software "from the cloud". But they are
almost completely misusing the word Cloud as IT people know it.
Basically Adobe has discontinued selling the Creative Suite (Photoshop,
Illustrator, InDesign, etc.) as boxed software. Instead they are renting it
to us in bundles, like cable TV channel packages.
So in theory you can get a lot of software for less money per month than
you used to pay for the entire Creative Suite plus upgrades every
1.5 years. That's great for professional graphic artists working for a
Fortune 500 firm.
But for free-lance or amateur photographers who just want Photoshop for as
little moola as possible, and expect to buy it like a book that you keep
forever, this move amounts to $20/month to Adobe for the rest of your
creative life. Because when you stop paying, the software stops working.
Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable.
It should be noted that photographers *should* be saving their files in a
non-proprietary form, like TIFF, JPEG or even DNG if you trust Adobe's
intentions for that format. But lots of folks have projects saved away in
PSD (Photoshop), etc., who want to open and work on them from time to time.
Lightroom has been spared this tragic move; you will still buy it like a
book and pay for individual upgrades.
For now.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:40 AM,wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that
> I am
> -- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote
server?
> I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you
very
> much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up
hard
> drives).
>
> Marnie aka Doe
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
> Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser
wrote:
>> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we
>> both
> worked
>> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
> ignored
>> it :-)
>>
>> Gerrit
>>
>> --
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Thanks, Bruce (and Gerrit) that explains a lot. Seems I was foggy all
around, since I didn't spell fogie right. Heh. And agree, Peter, I can do it
cheaper myself than I could by subscription.
Guess I better upgrade my LR and Elements before it/they becomes/become
cloud. Not sure Elements hasn't already, but one can usually find older
copies (using 8 now).
Well, I've been a computer programmer, so I have an inherent distrust of
the reliability of any computer/computer-related hardware. Uh, they fail,
from time to time. One should have lots of redundancy. I trust me to do that.
Not sure I would ever trust anyone else to do it as well.
Marnie aka Doe ;-)
In a message dated 5/31/2013 9:49:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Marnie, the "Cloud" word is a red herring. Nobody is requiring you to
save your files anywhere other than than what you do with them now. So
forget remote server, you save your files on your PC like you always
have. And your software still runs on your PC just as always. Nothing
processes In The Cloud somewhere. Once you install Photoshop, it's biz
as usual.
In this context, "Cloud" is Adobe marketing people smoking up and
saying, "Oooh yeah! Cloud is hip! Let's get that
cloud word in our product name somewhere." It could equally have been
Creative Unicorns. There are cloudy trimmings in the product, like the
Behance social site and the fact that you download the software "from
the cloud". But they are almost completely misusing the word Cloud as
IT people know it.
Basically Adobe has discontinued selling the Creative Suite
(Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc.) as boxed software. Instead
they are renting it to us in bundles, like cable TV channel packages.
So in theory you can get a lot of software for less money per month
than you used to pay for the entire Creative Suite plus upgrades every
1.5 years. That's great for professional graphic artists working for a
Fortune 500 firm.
But for free-lance or amateur photographers who just want Photoshop
for as little moola as possible, and expect to buy it like a book that
you keep forever, this move amounts to $20/month to Adobe for the rest
of your creative life. Because when you stop paying, the software
stops working. Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable.
It should be noted that photographers *should* be saving their files
in a non-proprietary form, like TIFF, JPEG or even DNG if you trust
Adobe's intentions for that format. But lots of folks have projects
saved away in PSD (Photoshop), etc., who want to open and work on them
from time to time.
Lightroom has been spared this tragic move; you will still buy it like
a book and pay for individual upgrades.
For now.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:40 AM,wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
> -- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote
server?
> I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you
very
> much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up
hard
> drives).
>
> Marnie aka Doe
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
> Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser
wrote:
>> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
> worked
>> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
> ignored
>> it :-)
>>
>> Gerrit
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
>> Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
>>
>> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
>>
>
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
>>
>> In a nutshell:
>>
>> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
>>
>> and
>>
>> "Golly, photographers are weird."
>>
>> --
>> -bmw
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
>
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
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fo
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
As long as you pay your subscription fees your /important/ photos will
be backed up, and whoever owns the server that stores them will make
money win/win. OK it doesn't seem like that much of a win to me since I
can back up my own photos for a fraction of what the yearly fee is
likely to be, and the bandwidth required to move more than a terabyte of
data to the "cloud" is kind of a problem... How about I just build my
own server farm, which I've kind of done. I haven't managed to lose any
of my digital photographs yet. Other things, yes, but not the
photographs...
On 5/31/2013 10:40 AM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote:
Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
-- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server?
I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very
much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard
drives).
Marnie aka Doe
In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
worked
for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
ignored
it :-)
Gerrit
-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
In a nutshell:
"Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
and
"Golly, photographers are weird."
--
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Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
on 2013-05-31 10:48 Bruce Walker wrote In this context, "Cloud" is Adobe marketing people smoking up and saying, "Oooh yeah! Cloud is hip! Let's get that cloud word in our product name somewhere." It could equally have been Creative Unicorns. There are cloudy trimmings in the product, like the Behance social site and the fact that you download the software "from the cloud". But they are almost completely misusing the word Cloud as IT people know it. i've been trying to get that across too, and it is true at present, but i've come to think there's more to it … i watch Adobe closely (for some reason) and i've seen an interview with Adobe CEO Narayen clearly spelling out to investors that they think they are chasing "creatives" into the new services that they want, which will be more and more cloud-based, using mobile devices; Narayen implied that the traditional "flat" world of graphic design apps is not a growth sector, so in terms of priorities for Adobe, the word "cloud" tells me that Adobe thinks there is not as much value for its stockholders in traditional uses/users i'm speaking as someone in publishing since the 80s, and i realize the picture is slightly different for photographers; photography is still catching the wave somewhat, but at a really low price point; i think Adobe will have trouble selling high-dollar software to the new photographers, so the market may not be as attractive as renting stuff to web developers and trying to hook people on social-something-or-other; i think Adobe has a real problem on its hands in that its market is fragmenting and they aren't positioned to keep all fragments happy Because when you stop paying, the software stops working. Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable. well, this is what Adobe claims they'll fix in the cited blog post; that they'll provide some sort of free "reader" Lightroom has been spared this tragic move; you will still buy it like a book and pay for individual upgrades. LR is included in cloud subscriptions, so you can go either way fwiw, i had a creative suite subscription from May 2012 and i cancelled when the price went from $30 to $50; value proposition wasn't there as i don't use the whole suite enough, and own some older licenses; i will use Pixelmator for dabbling, and will rent Photoshop for a month if i really need it -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Marnie, the "Cloud" word is a red herring. Nobody is requiring you to
save your files anywhere other than than what you do with them now. So
forget remote server, you save your files on your PC like you always
have. And your software still runs on your PC just as always. Nothing
processes In The Cloud somewhere. Once you install Photoshop, it's biz
as usual.
In this context, "Cloud" is Adobe marketing people smoking up and
saying, "Oooh yeah! Cloud is hip! Let's get that
cloud word in our product name somewhere." It could equally have been
Creative Unicorns. There are cloudy trimmings in the product, like the
Behance social site and the fact that you download the software "from
the cloud". But they are almost completely misusing the word Cloud as
IT people know it.
Basically Adobe has discontinued selling the Creative Suite
(Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc.) as boxed software. Instead
they are renting it to us in bundles, like cable TV channel packages.
So in theory you can get a lot of software for less money per month
than you used to pay for the entire Creative Suite plus upgrades every
1.5 years. That's great for professional graphic artists working for a
Fortune 500 firm.
But for free-lance or amateur photographers who just want Photoshop
for as little moola as possible, and expect to buy it like a book that
you keep forever, this move amounts to $20/month to Adobe for the rest
of your creative life. Because when you stop paying, the software
stops working. Your Adobe proprietary files become unreadable.
It should be noted that photographers *should* be saving their files
in a non-proprietary form, like TIFF, JPEG or even DNG if you trust
Adobe's intentions for that format. But lots of folks have projects
saved away in PSD (Photoshop), etc., who want to open and work on them
from time to time.
Lightroom has been spared this tragic move; you will still buy it like
a book and pay for individual upgrades.
For now.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:40 AM, wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
> -- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server?
> I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very
> much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard
> drives).
>
> Marnie aka Doe
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
> Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
>> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
> worked
>> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
> ignored
>> it :-)
>>
>> Gerrit
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
>> To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
>> Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
>>
>> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
>>
> http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
>>
>> In a nutshell:
>>
>> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
>>
>> and
>>
>> "Golly, photographers are weird."
>>
>> --
>> -bmw
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
>
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
on 2013-05-31 8:40 eactiv...@aol.com wrote Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am -- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server? I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard drives). in an ideal world, the remote server: * would be better maintained and backed up * would have more capacity at a lower price than your own hard drive * would be accessible by a suitably fast and never failing internet connection * would be completely private insofar as you wished * would not create confusion as an old fogie myself (DEC-20 mainframe was my first chief axe) what amazes me is that we are closing in on those ideal conditions as quickly as we are, despite the frustrations involved in the journey that said, Adobe is not whom i would expect to do best at such service; Adobe still produces good products, but is slowly descending into Dell territory, where the major questions are ones the stockholders raise -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Maybe I am missing something, probably am, being the old foggy that I am
-- but why in the #$%! should I want to store my photos on a remote server?
I guess I think I am missing the point of "cloud." I mean, thank you very
much, but I prefer storing my photos on my own computer (and back up hard
drives).
Marnie aka Doe
In a message dated 5/30/2013 12:19:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bruce.wal...@gmail.com writes:
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
worked
> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
ignored
> it :-)
>
> Gerrit
>
> -Original Message-
> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
> To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
> Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
>
> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
>
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
>
> In a nutshell:
>
> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
>
> and
>
> "Golly, photographers are weird."
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.
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RE: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
The "I"'s have it. The Architect there taught me that accepting a comment is
not the same as agreeing :-) Made writing my requirements and design
documents so my less stressful.
Gerrit
-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:03 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both
> worked
> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly
> ignored it :-)
>
> Gerrit
>
> -Original Message-
> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
> To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
> Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
>
> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-upd
> ate/
>
> In a nutshell:
>
> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
>
> and
>
> "Golly, photographers are weird."
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
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Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Now, was that Company A ('80's) or Company I ('90's)? ;-)
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both worked
> for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly ignored
> it :-)
>
> Gerrit
>
> -Original Message-
> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM
> To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List
> Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
>
> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/
>
> In a nutshell:
>
> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?"
>
> and
>
> "Golly, photographers are weird."
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
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Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
The most important part of the announcement is the part about not locking people out of their own content. If they deliver on a version that let's you view, print and convert files to other formats that will go along way to ease worries. gs George Sinos www.GeorgesPhotos.net www.GeorgeSinos.com On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Stan Halpin wrote: > Good synopsis Bruce. > Two things I notice in their PR piece. First, they seem to assume that Adobe > users are, or desire to be, part of a world-wide creative community. This > seems to ignore those users who just want to sit quietly and use the tools on > their own, without extensive sharing, collaboration, etc. > Second, it has forever been acknowledged that the Adobe suite of > applications, and even Photoshop, are overkill for most photographers. Adobe > in the past has provided Elements and Lightroom as more targeted applications > for this niche audience. Now they are saying that "...we are looking at > potential offerings that recognize the photography community – because it is > so broad – has some unique needs." I predict a CC-like PS Elements to > replace the current Elements. We'll get all the features of Instagram etc. so > we can better process and share our mobile phone snaps. I can hardly restrain > my excitement. > > stan > > On May 29, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > >> Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. >> http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ >> >> In a nutshell: >> >> "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" >> >> and >> >> "Golly, photographers are weird." >> >> -- >> -bmw > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
Good synopsis Bruce. Two things I notice in their PR piece. First, they seem to assume that Adobe users are, or desire to be, part of a world-wide creative community. This seems to ignore those users who just want to sit quietly and use the tools on their own, without extensive sharing, collaboration, etc. Second, it has forever been acknowledged that the Adobe suite of applications, and even Photoshop, are overkill for most photographers. Adobe in the past has provided Elements and Lightroom as more targeted applications for this niche audience. Now they are saying that "...we are looking at potential offerings that recognize the photography community – because it is so broad – has some unique needs." I predict a CC-like PS Elements to replace the current Elements. We'll get all the features of Instagram etc. so we can better process and share our mobile phone snaps. I can hardly restrain my excitement. stan On May 29, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. > http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ > > In a nutshell: > > "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" > > and > > "Golly, photographers are weird." > > -- > -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Adobe acknowledges cool reception
So really they are saying what I learned to say at a company we both worked for: "Thank you for your input". This of course meant that I mostly ignored it :-) Gerrit -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:23 AM To: Pentax Discuss Mailing List Subject: Adobe acknowledges cool reception Adobe finally issues a brief response to the Creative Cloud backlash. http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/our-move-to-creative-cloud-an-update/ In a nutshell: "Gosh, a few folks don't like subscription services. Who knew?" and "Golly, photographers are weird." -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
