Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
On 2/12/04, Shel Belinkoff, discombobulated, unleashed: Well, there's always the Pentax MX, various K-series cameras, the Leica ... Of course, these cameras don't have modes perhaps that's why they're so simple and intuitive. Actually Shel there is an 'automatic' mode with the MX that you already know about: if you pick up an MX, you automatically want to go and shoot with it... :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Thanks Bruce, I trust your opinion. I handled a *ist DS the other day and wondered. The price was good, very enabling. If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, I'd probably be a buyer. The shutter lag on the Sony is killing me... Regards, Bob S. On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 18:45:32 -0800, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had ZX-10's - it is more capable than those. Almost like a film *ist, except that the film *ist has most of the dedicated switches. Probably a ZX-7. Electronically it can do most things (metering modes, continuous AF, wireless flash, etc), but must use menus to select all those things rather than having the switches readily available. The *istD is much like the PZ-1p. So, I'll say it again, those who want to control the settings on the camera on a regular basis, will like the D, those who want mostly the automation to handle things will be ok with the DS. If you are happy using a ZX-7, then the DS will make you happy. If you get frustrated using the ZX-7, you will get frustrated using the DS and should get the D. When Canon came out with the Rebel D, they stripped quite a bit to leave an obvious difference between it and the 10D. When Nikon came out with the D70, it was in many ways a better camera than the D100. So much so, that nobody would buy a D100 over the D70. In Pentax's case, the didn't strip as much as the RebelD, but didn't make it so close to the *istD, that one cannot tell them apart and more advanced users will still prefer the *istD. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, December 2, 2004, 5:49:08 PM, you wrote: etn Quoting Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My feeling all along and after handling a DS in the store yesterday is that those who are happy with something less than the MZ-5n, will be happy with the DS. Basically people who are going to leave it on one of the program modes and not change much of anything very often. Those who like the handling of the MZ-5n and up (PZ-1p, MZ-S, etc) will be much happier with the *istD as it has the settings that would be changed most often on dedicated switches and buttons. etn So is it more of a digital ZX-10 then, with the *istD being more of etn a digital PZ-1? etn (in a general sense of course) etn ERNR
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Bob Sullivan wrote: If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, Why is megapixelage important? Do you print huge? Kostas
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
No huge printing here, but... 1) I figure 8 megapixels is the next generation after 6, and will be improved. 2) I've shot Kodachrome whenever I could for the past 25+ years. I'm spoiled by those nice 30x45 inch projected images. The 4 megapixel Sony prints snapshots OK on my Epson 870 Photo printer, but I know the jaggies are in there! Regards, Bob S. On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:41:38 + (GMT), Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Bob Sullivan wrote: If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, Why is megapixelage important? Do you print huge? Kostas
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
On 3 Dec 2004 at 12:41, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Bob Sullivan wrote: If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, Why is megapixelage important? Do you print huge? More megapixelage means a little more flexibility to crop and better quality large prints. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Hi Bob, I think we have the same Sony model. There are a few things you can do to reduce shutter lag, which, I agree, can be a PITA on these PS cameras. You can put the camera into full manual mode, or aperture priority, pre-focus or use manual focus, and partially depress the shutter release until the decisive moment. You'll still experience more lag than with an slr, but it will be reduced. BTW, it's the shutter lag to a great extent, as well as being relegated to 8-bit images and not being able to shoot RAW, which is moving me towards the istds. 8 mp is not really much of an issue. The 4mp Sony, when shooting TIFF, can make some rather nice prints in the 8x10 and 11x14 range. And while 16x20 prints are not that good, when viewed from an appropriate distance, produce accepatble prints (and, as you know, I'm quite fussy). The 6 mp of the istds should be a BIG improvement over the 4 mp of the Sony, not so much because of the pixel count, but because it's producing 16-bit files (well, 12-bit, but let's not quibble) and RAW. Two tests were run at one of the labs I use ( http://www.lightroom.com/ ) in which Rob made an 8x10 and a 16x20 for me on the Epson 9600. The tests were mainly to compare printing profiles and to determine what might be out of gamut for his system, but we figured as long as the 9600 was fired up, we'd see how well the Sony could do. Another time a friend (who just loves testing gear) and I shot a brick wall, with me using both the Sony and a film camera loaded with slide film. Running the images through PS and printing them on his Epson something-or-other printer, gave surprising results. Bill, who is away right now, frequents this list, otherwise he'd probably jump in with some more details. Anyway, I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting an istds, just trying to encourage you to enjoy the Sony while you're using it, and maybe help you get some better results. Hmmm, you've the DSC-S75, don't you? Mine's the S85 ... do you know if the sensor and the lens are the same in both cameras. Shel [Original Message] From: Bob Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Bruce, I trust your opinion. I handled a *ist DS the other day and wondered. The price was good, very enabling. If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, I'd probably be a buyer. The shutter lag on the Sony is killing me...
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
My KX did (and still does) the same to me =) even if my SuperA has been quite good in the very same way - Thibouille Cotty a écrit : On 2/12/04, Shel Belinkoff, discombobulated, unleashed: Well, there's always the Pentax MX, various K-series cameras, the Leica ... Of course, these cameras don't have modes perhaps that's why they're so simple and intuitive. Actually Shel there is an 'automatic' mode with the MX that you already know about: if you pick up an MX, you automatically want to go and shoot with it... :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
The MX is nice, but I've recently become enchanted with the K body cameras. A number of people have donated K-1000's and a couple of KM's to the 6th Street Workshop, so I had a chance to try a few. They were new experiences for me having gone directly from the Spotmatic series to the M's and LX. I recently got a KM and am now looking for a KX and a K2, preferably in black. Those cameras have a nice heft and feel to them (a friend just got a black K2 ... sweet!), and are such a nice match for my favorite K lenses. Every Pentax user owes it to him or herself to try at least some of the classic Pentax manual bodies Boy, we've really changed the metering mode in this thread LOL Shel Cotty a écrit : Actually Shel there is an 'automatic' mode with the MX that you already know about: if you pick up an MX, you automatically want to go and shoot with it...
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Shel, I've used the pre-focus tricks to reduce the shutter lag on the Sony S85. I've even used it for gymnastic meets and girls vaulting. You can make it work, but it's still a pain to do. I had a Sony S75 but passed it onto my son Bill. About the only thing different with the S85 is it is black and 4 megapixels vs 3. The lens is the same between them, the software is the same, and the display is identical. Only the sensor is different. Strangely, I get less consistent exposures with the S85 than I did with the S75. Overall, it makes very nice pictures. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 05:55:37 -0800, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bob, I think we have the same Sony model. There are a few things you can do to reduce shutter lag, which, I agree, can be a PITA on these PS cameras. You can put the camera into full manual mode, or aperture priority, pre-focus or use manual focus, and partially depress the shutter release until the decisive moment. You'll still experience more lag than with an slr, but it will be reduced. BTW, it's the shutter lag to a great extent, as well as being relegated to 8-bit images and not being able to shoot RAW, which is moving me towards the istds. 8 mp is not really much of an issue. The 4mp Sony, when shooting TIFF, can make some rather nice prints in the 8x10 and 11x14 range. And while 16x20 prints are not that good, when viewed from an appropriate distance, produce accepatble prints (and, as you know, I'm quite fussy). The 6 mp of the istds should be a BIG improvement over the 4 mp of the Sony, not so much because of the pixel count, but because it's producing 16-bit files (well, 12-bit, but let's not quibble) and RAW. Two tests were run at one of the labs I use ( http://www.lightroom.com/ ) in which Rob made an 8x10 and a 16x20 for me on the Epson 9600. The tests were mainly to compare printing profiles and to determine what might be out of gamut for his system, but we figured as long as the 9600 was fired up, we'd see how well the Sony could do. Another time a friend (who just loves testing gear) and I shot a brick wall, with me using both the Sony and a film camera loaded with slide film. Running the images through PS and printing them on his Epson something-or-other printer, gave surprising results. Bill, who is away right now, frequents this list, otherwise he'd probably jump in with some more details. Anyway, I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting an istds, just trying to encourage you to enjoy the Sony while you're using it, and maybe help you get some better results. Hmmm, you've the DSC-S75, don't you? Mine's the S85 ... do you know if the sensor and the lens are the same in both cameras. Shel [Original Message] From: Bob Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Bruce, I trust your opinion. I handled a *ist DS the other day and wondered. The price was good, very enabling. If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, I'd probably be a buyer. The shutter lag on the Sony is killing me...
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
It helps to be able to crop sometimes... Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Bob Sullivan wrote: If an 8 megapixel version of the *ist D was next, Why is megapixelage important? Do you print huge? Kostas -- I can understand why mankind hasn't given up war. During a war you get to drive tanks through the sides of buildings and shoot foreigners - two things that are usually frowned on during peacetime. --P.J. O'Rourke
RE: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Jaume, I'm sorry to tell you that changing the metering mode in Ds is not as simple as pushing ONE button. It involves going into menu to make the change. So the Menu button and 2 pushes of the UP button, One push of the RIGHT button and UP or DOWN depending on which mode you choose. So there you go As I said, not the simplest, but since I use mostly Center Weighted mode, I just leave it there Andy -Original Message- From: Jaume Lahuerta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Changing metering modes in Ds? Hi, The Ds has a great amount of interesting features but its simplicity (few wheels and buttons) can make the access to some of these features too complicated to be really usable. Being my current AF camera a MZ-5n, that has a dedicated and very convenient commandment to change between spot, multi-zone and CW metering mode, I am worried about how does it works in the Ds and how convenient it is to use 'in the field' (I use it a lot in the 5n). So, have any of you tried this in a Ds? Thanks and regards, Jaume __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Great news, Jaume, it takes 11 clicks through menus at worst, 3 at best (hopefully one can wrap scrolling through the recording menu). Pentax placed the metering mode as well as flash compensation at the bottom of the menu page; image tone and size are considered far more useful options (or needed more debugging and the test department required faster access to it!?). :oY Servus, Alin Jaume wrote: JL The Ds has a great amount of interesting features but JL its simplicity (few wheels and buttons) can make the JL access to some of these features too complicated to be JL really usable. JL Being my current AF camera a MZ-5n, that has a JL dedicated and very convenient commandment to change JL between spot, multi-zone and CW metering mode, I am JL worried about how does it works in the Ds and how JL convenient it is to use 'in the field' (I use it a lot JL in the 5n). JL So, have any of you tried this in a Ds? JL Thanks and regards, JL Jaume
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
My feeling all along and after handling a DS in the store yesterday is that those who are happy with something less than the MZ-5n, will be happy with the DS. Basically people who are going to leave it on one of the program modes and not change much of anything very often. Those who like the handling of the MZ-5n and up (PZ-1p, MZ-S, etc) will be much happier with the *istD as it has the settings that would be changed most often on dedicated switches and buttons. The DS is nice, but I personally would not buy one for me. I would still buy the original D. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, December 2, 2004, 4:18:33 AM, you wrote: AF Great news, Jaume, it takes 11 clicks through menus at worst, 3 at AF best (hopefully one can wrap scrolling through the recording menu). AF Pentax placed the metering mode as well as flash compensation at the AF bottom of the menu page; image tone and size are considered far more AF useful options (or needed more debugging and the test department AF required faster access to it!?). :oY AF Servus, Alin AF Jaume wrote: JL The Ds has a great amount of interesting features but JL its simplicity (few wheels and buttons) can make the JL access to some of these features too complicated to be JL really usable. JL Being my current AF camera a MZ-5n, that has a JL dedicated and very convenient commandment to change JL between spot, multi-zone and CW metering mode, I am JL worried about how does it works in the Ds and how JL convenient it is to use 'in the field' (I use it a lot JL in the 5n). JL So, have any of you tried this in a Ds? JL Thanks and regards, JL Jaume
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
I don't have experience with those other models, but changing the metering mode on the MZ-S rocks. One knob right on the top. In fact, the placement of the knob makes it almost too easy: I've accidentally bumped it into another mode a couple of times. t On 12/2/04 11:14, Bruce Dayton wrote: My feeling all along and after handling a DS in the store yesterday is that those who are happy with something less than the MZ-5n, will be happy with the DS. Basically people who are going to leave it on one of the program modes and not change much of anything very often. Those who like the handling of the MZ-5n and up (PZ-1p, MZ-S, etc) will be much happier with the *istD as it has the settings that would be changed most often on dedicated switches and buttons. The DS is nice, but I personally would not buy one for me. I would still buy the original D.
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
I seriously doubt that there is anything that can hold a candle to the 5n when it comes to the sheer simplicity and intuitiveness of the user interface. I can simply place my hands on the top plate blindfolded and know: metering mode drive mode whether the shutter speed is set to A or not whether I have exposure compesation dialled in (but not how much) The only other 2 things one would need to know, namely shutter speed and aperture you get from the viewfinder display ( without the blindfold :-) ) The MZ-S is great and it is now my main camera but It took me some time to be totally confident with it after having been spoilt by the 5n. I don't own but have handled an *Ist-D and I must say first impressions were extremely positive it has that right feel to it. wrt to the ist-ds I would'nt want to switch between metering modes through a menu that is one control i want on a switch. Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The Ds has a great amount of interesting features but its simplicity (few wheels and buttons) can make the access to some of these features too complicated to be really usable. Being my current AF camera a MZ-5n, that has a dedicated and very convenient commandment to change between spot, multi-zone and CW metering mode, I am worried about how does it works in the Ds and how convenient it is to use 'in the field' (I use it a lot in the 5n). So, have any of you tried this in a Ds? Thanks and regards, Jaume __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Quoting Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My feeling all along and after handling a DS in the store yesterday is that those who are happy with something less than the MZ-5n, will be happy with the DS. Basically people who are going to leave it on one of the program modes and not change much of anything very often. Those who like the handling of the MZ-5n and up (PZ-1p, MZ-S, etc) will be much happier with the *istD as it has the settings that would be changed most often on dedicated switches and buttons. So is it more of a digital ZX-10 then, with the *istD being more of a digital PZ-1? (in a general sense of course) ERNR
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Well, there's always the Pentax MX, various K-series cameras, the Leica ... Of course, these cameras don't have modes perhaps that's why they're so simple and intuitive. Shel [Original Message] From: Patrick Genovese [EMAIL PROTECTED] I seriously doubt that there is anything that can hold a candle to the 5n when it comes to the sheer simplicity and intuitiveness of the user interface. I can simply place my hands on the top plate blindfolded and know:
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
- Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: Changing metering modes in Ds? Well, there's always the Pentax MX, various K-series cameras, the Leica ... Of course, these cameras don't have modes perhaps that's why they're so simple and intuitive. I always liked poor man's matrix metering mode. Camera down for prints, up for slides William Robb
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
I have had ZX-10's - it is more capable than those. Almost like a film *ist, except that the film *ist has most of the dedicated switches. Probably a ZX-7. Electronically it can do most things (metering modes, continuous AF, wireless flash, etc), but must use menus to select all those things rather than having the switches readily available. The *istD is much like the PZ-1p. So, I'll say it again, those who want to control the settings on the camera on a regular basis, will like the D, those who want mostly the automation to handle things will be ok with the DS. If you are happy using a ZX-7, then the DS will make you happy. If you get frustrated using the ZX-7, you will get frustrated using the DS and should get the D. When Canon came out with the Rebel D, they stripped quite a bit to leave an obvious difference between it and the 10D. When Nikon came out with the D70, it was in many ways a better camera than the D100. So much so, that nobody would buy a D100 over the D70. In Pentax's case, the didn't strip as much as the RebelD, but didn't make it so close to the *istD, that one cannot tell them apart and more advanced users will still prefer the *istD. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, December 2, 2004, 5:49:08 PM, you wrote: etn Quoting Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My feeling all along and after handling a DS in the store yesterday is that those who are happy with something less than the MZ-5n, will be happy with the DS. Basically people who are going to leave it on one of the program modes and not change much of anything very often. Those who like the handling of the MZ-5n and up (PZ-1p, MZ-S, etc) will be much happier with the *istD as it has the settings that would be changed most often on dedicated switches and buttons. etn So is it more of a digital ZX-10 then, with the *istD being more of etn a digital PZ-1? etn (in a general sense of course) etn ERNR
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Straight ahead for BW LOL I didn't realize these were modes. Shel [Original Message] From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Changing metering modes in Ds? Well, there's always the Pentax MX, various K-series cameras, the Leica ... Of course, these cameras don't have modes perhaps that's why they're so simple and intuitive. I always liked poor man's matrix metering mode. Camera down for prints, up for slides William Robb
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:19:54 -0800, Tim Sherburne wrote: I don't have experience with those other models, but changing the metering mode on the MZ-S rocks. One knob right on the top. In fact, the placement of the knob makes it almost too easy: I've accidentally bumped it into another mode a couple of times. I'm with you on both points, Tim. I actually wish it was a little harder to change the single frame/continuous/timer mode because I've accidentally bumped that button, too. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: Changing metering modes in Ds?
Quoting Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I have had ZX-10's - it is more capable than those. Almost like a
film *ist, except that the film *ist has most of the dedicated
switches. Probably a ZX-7. Electronically it can do most things
(metering modes, continuous AF, wireless flash, etc), but must use
menus to select all those things rather than having the switches
readily available.
The *istD is much like the PZ-1p. So, I'll say it again, those who
want to control the settings on the camera on a regular basis, will
like the D, those who want mostly the automation to handle things will
be ok with the DS. If you are happy using a ZX-7, then the DS will
make you happy. If you get frustrated using the ZX-7, you will get
frustrated using the DS and should get the D.
Ah.
See, here's why I made the comparison the way I did.
I have a PZ-1.
My husband has a ZX-10 ('cause I bought it for him ... )
Never have lived with a ZX-7. Never seen an actual *ist. (the film one)
ERNR
