Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
On 4/15/2011 16:21, AlunFoto wrote: Gang, Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain them? Jostein Interesting question, sir. I tend to be more than extremely careful about my keywords. I regularly look at "Keyword List" of my LR and mop things up so that I don't have too many keywords. The organization is by: * Place (Norway :-), Israel, etc) * People (Family, Friends, PDML visits and PDML visitors, etc) * Event (Concert where I shot, etc) * Project (Galia's school, Books that Galia and I made, etc) * Submitted-to (PUG, PPG, PESO, etc) I don't care too much about "classical" vocabularies, but I do care about the convenience of that of mine. Seems to work most of the time this far. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
> Gang, > Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to > index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and > maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it > works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their > flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with > controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain > them? > > Jostein I don't bother. If you think of the classic captioning rules about who, what, when, where and why you will usually include enough to find what you want. Then 'when' is taken care of by the time in the metadata. Your keywording job is just to put in the rest of the stuff at the lowest level you find convenient. For example, for 'where' I put in which part of London I shot it (say 'bloomsbury' & 'london'), or just the town if the town is small, then I put in other features that seem relevant, such as 'river' 'thames'. For 'what' I include the event, eg 'marathon' Any people whose name I know. If I don't know the name, then some distinguishing characteristic if they are the subject, eg 'boy' 'somersault'. In one of the earlier versions of Lightroom they made hierarchies of keywords quite easy, which was fairly useful for grouping things which were genuinely heirarchical - it meant I didn't have to type 'london' every time I put in a borough, because I could include the borough in the london hierarchy, or I didn't have to include 'river' every time I used 'thames', but that seems to have fallen by the wayside, embankment, pavement, roadway, thoroughfare, path, avenue, ... Bob my house Greenwich London England Britain Europe The world Solar System Milky Way Galaxy The universe Everything -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Scott Loveless wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:18 AM, David J Brooks wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >>> And here I thought this was going to be a thread about speech police >> >> >> Samme herrre > > Hi, Dave. When did you become a 14 year old girl? I d have to look at my notes Dave > > -- > Scott Loveless > http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ > __o > _'\<,_ > (*)/ (*) > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
From: AlunFoto Gang, Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole J?rgen Liodden, and it works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain them? Poorly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
2011/4/15 Tim Bray : > I'm not saying a controlled vocabulary is bad, and yep, I keyword my > Lightroom inventory so I can find pix of my kids or taken in Tokyo or > whatever. But they're hard to create, harder to maintain, and the > return on investment is generally modest. -Tim I dunno what kind of return you consider on the investment, but I do know I'm required to tag images according to a predefined set of keywords when I upload to my stock agency. Applying those keywords certainly improves my chances of getting a sale. Further, if I could adhere to their standard of tagging in my local installation of LR, I would only have to do the keywording once, and locally. With the potential of reuse in other agencies for images that go royalty-free. :-) As a former delegate to one of those committees who dealt with standardisations on international levels, I know how exceptionally good they are at painting themselves into corners. But standards are for bureaucrats. What precedes them is usually a need arosen from a concrete business case. The IPTC framework is one example, I think. And libraries do make good use of classification systems I believe... :-) Jostein Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
My impression: A home-grown taxonomy/vocabulary is like an old pony: it won't be very fast, it won't get you very far, but it is comfortable and is usually good enough if you understand its limitations. A professionally-created taxonomy/vocabulary is like a thoroughbred race horse: a thing of beauty, blazing fast. But it has limited functionality and ages quickly; very soon it needs to be put out to pasture and totally replaced. I dabbled in Numerical Taxonomy for a time a few decades ago. The thing that quickly struck me is how arbitrary most taxonomic distinctions are, and that the quantitative approach was merely putting numbers to arbitrary rules. There is nothing inherently wrong with arbitrary rules (e.g., whether the world is divided by Continents, or by Regions. Or maybe skip that level and go straight to Countries. Defined by whose agreed-upon[?] boundaries? Do we use Regions within Countries? Or Counties where the countries have Counties, Provinces where they have those. But what if a Province has embedded Counties? etc. etc.). But the rules are arbitrary, and that makes them easy to forget and hard to recreate, and that means too much time painstakingly re-discovering the framework being used. stan On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:21 AM, AlunFoto wrote: > Gang, > Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to > index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and > maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it > works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their > flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with > controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain > them? > > Jostein > > -- > http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ > http://alunfoto.blogspot.com > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
Be afraid. Be very afraid. I spent some years of my life in the publishing-technology business, with particular attention to high-end publishing like dictionaries and encyclopedias and legislation and aircraft tech manuals. At some point in the life of every such effort, someone decides they need a controlled vocabulary, some say "taxonomy", some with pretensions say "ontology". What's bad is if they assign the job to someone. What's worse is if they assign it to a committee. What's worst of all is when they get together some other publishers and form an industry standards group. Remember when Yahoo was at the center of everything with their hierarchical index of web sites? That was a controlled vocabulary. Only Google swept them away without any such thing by applying a single metric: "People think this is good." I'm not saying a controlled vocabulary is bad, and yep, I keyword my Lightroom inventory so I can find pix of my kids or taken in Tokyo or whatever. But they're hard to create, harder to maintain, and the return on investment is generally modest. -Tim On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:21 AM, AlunFoto wrote: > Gang, > Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to > index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and > maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it > works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their > flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with > controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain > them? > > Jostein > > -- > http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ > http://alunfoto.blogspot.com > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:18 AM, David J Brooks wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >> And here I thought this was going to be a thread about speech police > > > Samme herrre Hi, Dave. When did you become a 14 year old girl? -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ __o _'\<,_ (*)/ (*) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > And here I thought this was going to be a thread about speech police Samme herrre Dave > > ann > > AlunFoto wrote: > >> Gang, >> Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to >> index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and >> maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it >> works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their >> flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with >> controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain >> them? >> >> Jostein >> >> > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
And here I thought this was going to be a thread about speech police ann AlunFoto wrote: Gang, Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain them? Jostein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Controlled vocabularies, anyone?
Hi Jostein, I index all folders by date and subject and add a prefix that indicates whether it's been backed up or not. For example: b8-7-10 red 64 dodge 330. Many of my images are filed by the camera sequence number, which I can trace to a date. But the more critical shots are filed by a keyword and date code. If there's more than one shot of the same subject for that day, a sequence number appears between the keyword and the date. If I shot five pictures of Grace today, the last file name would be: grace541511.tif. Paul On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:21 AM, AlunFoto wrote: > Gang, > Once again I have been infused by a mischievous spirit inspiring me to > index my images with keywords. I use a controlled vocabulary built and > maintained by Norwegian nature photographer Ole Jørgen Liodden, and it > works pretty well for my shots too. But all such systems have their > flaws, and I would like to learn from other's experience with > controlled vocabularies. Self-made or bought. How do you maintain > them? > > Jostein > > -- > http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ > http://alunfoto.blogspot.com > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
