Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
First thing that strikes me is to find some hard men with basball bats ball peen hammers. But I tend to be bad tempered in those sorts of situations :-) Dave S. On 5/19/06, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first thing that strikes me is to ask to see his authorization.
RE: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
This is what contracts are for. If you have a contract, make use of it. If you do not have a contract, ask your clients if the other guy has a contract. If he does not, get your clients to agree and contract with you, then go and wave it at your competitor. Good luck. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Dave Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 May 2006 02:13 To: PDML Subject: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
RE: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Hi Dave I agree with Graywolf and wish you all the best. greetings Markus -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:01 AM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business Hi Dave, I have kind of skimmed over the other answers I see what you have gotten, but I think it may be more complicated than they indicate. The thing that you have to find out is did the former manager have the authority at the time to bind the organization. And who has a written contract with them, you or him? However, if you managed to get a written agreement from the organization then things are different, even if they have a prior agreement with the other guy, you do have an agreement with them and they are liable to meet that agreement with you. See it begins to get complicated. You really need to talk to a local attorney. This is not something we can advise you on even if we know all the facts. Talk to an attorney about this case. You might want get general advice about contracts for the future from him too, so if something like this happens again you know in advance what you have to do. The only thing I can tell you is, don't give up until you have lost. Do not just back down because the other guy is bigger. Even if he wins, you may also, if the organization gave a contract to both of you they are the ones with a problem. But you can be sure they do have an attorney on hand, and you are going to have to stand your ground in any case. Welcome to the world of business. The least you are going to get out of this is to learn how to not let yourself get into a situation like this in the future. However, it goes in the end, consider it a learning experience. Oh, yes, be firm, but very polite with the organization people. Your attitude should be that you do not have a problem with them, but are just trying to straighten out an contract problem. After all you will probably want to continue doing business with them in the future. Let me repeat that important statement. Don't give up until you have lost. Remember what happens to a team that walks off the field in the seventh inning, they forfeit the game. Make sure you have lost, and not just forfeited. The very least you want to do is leave everyone aware that they are dealing with a professional. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Dave Brooks wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Hi all. Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have recevied a few offlist messages, but non showed up in my emails again. Taking this from the archives. I have left emails and messages with my client and also Mr. Out of focus non Pentax user(My Wal-Mart).:-) I'll wait until i hear back from the client. Worst case is i see him Sunday at his 1 day schooling show, and i'll see whats going on. As far as contracts, unfortunately everything i have is verbal, and in some instances, confirmation via email. I suppose thats close.:-) As someone wrote me, yes i'm alive have a roof over my head and food in the fridge. So life is good to that point.But the extra $2500.00 i get selling pictures pays for my toys.vbg Just very frustrating, being a small store in a small town, then having to watch Wal-Mart move into town. Again thanks and i'll let you know what happens. --- Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 23:01:06 -0400 From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dave, I have kind of skimmed over the other answers I see what you have gotten, but I think it may be more complicated than they indicate. The thing that you have to find out is did the former manager have the authority at the time to bind the organization. And who has a written contract with them, you or him? However, if you managed to get a written agreement from the organization then things are different, even if they have a prior agreement with the other guy, you do have an agreement with them and they are liable to meet that agreement with you. See it begins to get complicated. You really need to talk to a local attorney. This is not something we can advise you on even if we know all the facts. Talk to an attorney about this case. You might want get general advice about contracts for the future from him too, so if something like this happens again you know in advance what you have to do. The only thing I can tell you is, don't give up until you have lost. Do not just back down because the other guy is bigger. Even if he wins, you may also, if the organization gave a contract to both of you they are the ones with a problem. But you can be sure they do have an attorney on hand, and you are going to have to stand your ground in any case. Welcome to the world of business. The least you are going to get out of this is to learn how to not let yourself get into a situation like this in the future. However, it goes in the end, consider it a learning experience. Oh, yes, be firm, but very polite with the organization people. Your attitude should be that you do not have a problem with them, but are just trying to straighten out an contract problem. After all you will probably want to continue doing business with them in the future. Let me repeat that important statement. Don't give up until you have lost. Remember what happens to a team that walks off the field in the seventh inning, they forfeit the game. Make sure you have lost, and not just forfeited. The very least you want to do is leave everyone aware that they are dealing with a professional. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Dave Brooks wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
David Savage wrote: First thing that strikes me is to find some hard men with basball bats ball peen hammers. But I tend to be bad tempered in those sorts of situations :-) Dave S. On 5/19/06, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first thing that strikes me is to ask to see his authorization. Yes well one would assume so from your last name :) annsan (ducking the bats)
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
I really don't quite understand your message. I mean I read it, but I don't quite get it. But it seems to me you need to deal with the new managers, NOT the other photographer who wrote you. He's trying to intimidate. The new managers may not think the way he does. It also seems that you may have nothing in writing. To avoid this in the future create some kind of little form that you can use in the future. There are probably books or places on the Internet where you can find something. As a computer consultant, I often had nothing in writing when I took on a consulting job. I seriously regretted that about twice. And I tried to remember future times, to get something in writing. If only a signature on an estimate form. A handshake, however, or a verbal agreement is actually legally binding. The trouble is proving the handshake or verbal agreement took place. But you might mention that to the new managers. That a verbal agreement is legally binding. Using the word legal. Sometimes just the hint of legality or the hint you might take legal action will make people fall in line. Or the reminder that, yes, you did have an agreement. I doubt you want to spend money on a lawyer, unless this was a high, high paying job. So in my humble opinion, if I understood what you said, you need to tug on the sense of fair play of the new managers. On their integrity. You need to remind them they made a commitment to you. Get them to live up to some internal sense of honor. It may work. But don't deal with the other photographer at all. He's just hassling you. That is, if I understood what you said. Good luck!, Marnie aka Doe
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
In a message dated 5/19/2006 6:53:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As far as contracts, unfortunately everything i have is verbal, and in some instances, confirmation via email. Okay, my response was late, after you wrote this. An email IS having something in writing. It will stand up in court, that is. It is perfectly valid, even though no signatures are involved. I once threatened to take a client who was not going to pay me to court based simply on his emails. (One of the instances where I seriously regretted not having some kind of small contract or signed estimate up front.) Anyway, it worked, he paid me. Good luck! Marnie aka Doe I still think, though, that you should not deal directly with the other photographer at all. You have no business relationship with him.
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
William Robb wrote: If you have the contract in hand, tell him to take a flying f#ck at a rolling doughnut. I've always wondered how exactly this is done. If you don't, then get in touch with the event organizers and ask them what gives. Then tell the peon to take a flying f#ck at the moon. Haven't heard of this before. Tom C.
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
My bark is much worse than my bite :-) Dave On 5/19/06, Ann Sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes well one would assume so from your last name :) annsan (ducking the bats)
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
On 5/19/06, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is what contracts are for. If you have a contract, make use of it. If you do not have a contract, ask your clients if the other guy has a contract. If he does not, get your clients to agree and contract with you, then go and wave it at your competitor. Good luck. -- Cheers, Bob I agree with what Bob said :-) If you have e-mail confirmation from the organizers, then that should be good too. BTW who is the other photog? You can e-mail me the name off-list if you don't want to mention it here. Not that I'm being nosey or anything... ;-) Wendy
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business Then tell the peon to take a flying f#ck at the moon. Haven't heard of this before. Kurt Vonnegut. I don't recall which book. William Robb
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
On Fri, 19 May 2006 22:02:56 +0200, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business Then tell the peon to take a flying f#ck at the moon. Haven't heard of this before. Kurt Vonnegut. I don't recall which book. Slaughterhouse five. But reading all of them to find it isn't wasted time... -- Regards, Lucas
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Hi Dave, Talk to the managers who gave you the job. Get it in writing. If you have a lawyer friend, perhaps you can get him to write a tough letter to the guys who are trying to muscle you out. Good luck. Paul On May 18, 2006, at 9:12 PM, Dave Brooks wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
- Original Message - From: Dave Brooks Subject: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. If you have the contract in hand, tell him to take a flying f#ck at a rolling doughnut. If you don't, then get in touch with the event organizers and ask them what gives. Then tell the peon to take a flying f#ck at the moon. William Robb
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
And after you get the assignment in writing from the managers who have the authority to do so, have them write to the muscle guys informing them that the former manager has no authority to give them the rights to photograph the show. -P Paul Stenquist wrote: Hi Dave, Talk to the managers who gave you the job. Get it in writing. If you have a lawyer friend, perhaps you can get him to write a tough letter to the guys who are trying to muscle you out. Good luck. Paul On May 18, 2006, at 9:12 PM, Dave Brooks wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Dave, I know some high powered local attorneys who hate jackasses. If you pretend to like baseball, they will help you -- just get it in writing from your show clients that it's your show. -Aaron p.s. you don't even have to pretend to like baseball.
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Sorry to hear about your trouble, Dave. I can't offer advice beyond what you've already seen posted. Just don't accept it without a fight. Best wishes. Joe
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
Hi Dave, I have kind of skimmed over the other answers I see what you have gotten, but I think it may be more complicated than they indicate. The thing that you have to find out is did the former manager have the authority at the time to bind the organization. And who has a written contract with them, you or him? However, if you managed to get a written agreement from the organization then things are different, even if they have a prior agreement with the other guy, you do have an agreement with them and they are liable to meet that agreement with you. See it begins to get complicated. You really need to talk to a local attorney. This is not something we can advise you on even if we know all the facts. Talk to an attorney about this case. You might want get general advice about contracts for the future from him too, so if something like this happens again you know in advance what you have to do. The only thing I can tell you is, don't give up until you have lost. Do not just back down because the other guy is bigger. Even if he wins, you may also, if the organization gave a contract to both of you they are the ones with a problem. But you can be sure they do have an attorney on hand, and you are going to have to stand your ground in any case. Welcome to the world of business. The least you are going to get out of this is to learn how to not let yourself get into a situation like this in the future. However, it goes in the end, consider it a learning experience. Oh, yes, be firm, but very polite with the organization people. Your attitude should be that you do not have a problem with them, but are just trying to straighten out an contract problem. After all you will probably want to continue doing business with them in the future. Let me repeat that important statement. Don't give up until you have lost. Remember what happens to a team that walks off the field in the seventh inning, they forfeit the game. Make sure you have lost, and not just forfeited. The very least you want to do is leave everyone aware that they are dealing with a professional. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Dave Brooks wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
May be largely (or totally) bluff and bluster unsupported by authority. You've got to get specific and professionally aggressive. Keep it subdued, matter-of-fact and respectful. So much is unknown that a further detailed course ends with the good advice rendered by others that an attorney needs to be involved. Will be anxious to hear the outcome. Best of luck. Jack --- Dave Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
The first thing that strikes me is to ask to see his authorization. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Dave Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business God, can things get any worse. Photo funk for many months and now i get an email from a photo company that is a lot bigger than moi, stating that they have the rights to shoot anequine show next weekend, that i'm supposed to have,from the guy who has nothing to do with it anymore. The new managers are clients of mine and gabe me the show over 10 months ago. This guy is really aggressive and i have emailed an called him back on this, bit, do you think this is a muscle effort. I mean the guy he is quoting left that show 2 years ago. I don't know what to do now. He has taken one show from me already this year, but i knew that. Am i being over run because i'm a small business(he has 4 mac's several tent staff and 5 photographers. I'm me and my web site. Ladies and Gents, i'm in a real mental funk tonight. Any thing i can do here, and words of encouragement Lord n\knows its needed here tonight. Dave David J Brooks Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, PZ-1, Nikon D1 D2H
Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business
I am not a lawyer. That said, you should look up the term tortious interference and consult with an attorney. If the other guy knows that the person who granted his rights has no authority, you may already have committed a tort by threatening you. A letter from an attorney convincing him that you know your rights and will go after him if he commits a tort against you might do the trick. Hope this helps. --Mark
correction (was Re: Need a shoulder, and advice on my business)
was: you may already havecommitted a tort by threatening you. should be: he may already havecommitted a tort by threatening you. sorry about that
