Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
On May 15, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Bob Sullivan wrote: > >> Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, >> I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. > > The student got an F in the course long before I even suspected > plagiarism. (Skipped more than 25% of classes, skipped 50% of tests > during the semester, turned in most work late and delivered a final > project, which was in Adobe Illustrator, consisting of this JPEG image > embedded in an Illustrator file! — his grade for the course was > 37%…) This was the one that gave you a negative review over grading? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Igor Roshchin wrote: >Of course, it is your choice of how much of your time and energy you are >willing to invest in this. Well, it's also up to my department chair and he seems reluctant to take on the inevitable complications (read: work). And of course it is not to my advantage to get into a conflict with the chair of the department. Thank you for the insight, though. You made a couple of points I had considered and some I hadn't. The students and teachers both receive education in this business, don't they? -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
I doubt anything Mark could say would have any impact if he is skipping 25% of classes and 50% of tests, and got 37% for a final grade. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: > Thu May 15 13:32:36 EDT 2014 > Mark Roberts wrote: > >> P.J. Alling wrote: >> >> >It's derivative, at best, but since the student has already failed, why >> >keep beating that dead horse. >> >> Exactly. I've forwarded everything to my department chair. He and I >> have elected not to pursue the matter any further. We'd have to get >> the Dean involved and go through all kinds of hassle. Too much work >> for nothing at this point. > > > Mark, > > Of course, it is your choice of how much of your time and energy you are > willing to invest in this. I just would like to bring to your > consideration an important (for the students' development) issue here. > I think it is very important that the student is aware that > 1) it is not OK to repeat somebody's design without acknowledging that, and > 2) he was caught doing this. > > For the first, it is possible that the student might not really > see the problem in basing his/her design on somebody's else. > (And there are also cultural differences of acceptance for students > coming from different countries. -- I don't know if you deal with any > international students.) > Second thing, if the student knows it was unacceptable but did it, > the fact that he wasn't caught might be encouraging for the future > similar attempts. Thus, it is best for the student (and the society) if > the student is warned at the early stages and is informed about > the possible consequences. > > Even if you are not going to follow the formal procedure, I'd consider > telling him that it is inappropriate and that in this case he will get > out easily, but it wouldn't be tolerated in the future. > > > My colleagues and I have dealt with a bunch of cases of plagiarism that > in essence similar to this, and I am convinced that there are two types > of cases: > 1. In some patalogical cases, a simple warning doesn't do much. > Hence, things must be documented, even if no strong measures of > panishments are used, so that the subsequent violations would be > repeat violations and as such are subject to stronger measures (up > to expulsion). > > One of my colleagues had a case where the first serious fact of > plagiarism of a student was not documented, and then when a different > faculty found that the thesis (graduate level!) was plagiarized, > since it was the "1st offense", serious measures couldn't be used. > > > 2. In other cases, even a well delivered warning is a good enough > message so that the student realizes the seriousness of the misconduct > in a full perspective, and it is not an issue in the future. > > > Best, > > Igor > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
On 15 May 2014, at 15:29, "Mark Roberts" wrote: > > Stanley Halpin wrote: > >> I agree with Bob. The student’s work is clearly derivative if not a copy. >> I did a Yahoo search for Burton boards since the designer’s site Jostein >> pointed to seems to indicate that his design was for that company. I did an >> unaided eye-ball scan of Yahoo images for Burton snowboards going back to >> 2010, saw nothing like this design or the one on the designer’s site. So if >> it is copied, it could be from an earlier board. My suspicion from the way >> Burton designs vary, I would guess that this was a women’s rather than a >> men’s board. >> >> In addition to the designer, maybe try contacting Burton? > > Nah, the design wasn't done for Burton. The original design was done > by a student, Sijle Bekkevold, as a class exercise. She chose Burton > Snowboards just for the purposes of the assignment. (Run this page > through Google Translate: > http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/04/16/logo-burton-snowboard-design/) > > After examining my student's version, I'm thinking he modified the > original design in Photoshop. > Ask for evidence of the design process - early versions etc. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
On 5/15/2014 10:28 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: Stanley Halpin wrote: I agree with Bob. The student’s work is clearly derivative if not a copy. I did a Yahoo search for Burton boards since the designer’s site Jostein pointed to seems to indicate that his design was for that company. I did an unaided eye-ball scan of Yahoo images for Burton snowboards going back to 2010, saw nothing like this design or the one on the designer’s site. So if it is copied, it could be from an earlier board. My suspicion from the way Burton designs vary, I would guess that this was a women’s rather than a men’s board. In addition to the designer, maybe try contacting Burton? Nah, the design wasn't done for Burton. The original design was done by a student, Sijle Bekkevold, as a class exercise. She chose Burton Snowboards just for the purposes of the assignment. (Run this page through Google Translate: http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/04/16/logo-burton-snowboard-design/) After examining my student's version, I'm thinking he modified the original design in Photoshop. Can't get Google to translate the page. It just tells me "This page was not retrieved from its original location over a secure connection." -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
P.J. Alling wrote: >It's derivative, at best, but since the student has already failed, why >keep beating that dead horse. Exactly. I've forwarded everything to my department chair. He and I have elected not to pursue the matter any further. We'd have to get the Dean involved and go through all kinds of hassle. Too much work for nothing at this point. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Burton has an 800 number - (800) 881-3138 On 5/15/2014 9:26 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg I suspect it isn't his. Jostein has found this: http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
It's derivative, at best, but since the student has already failed, why keep beating that dead horse. I've run into worse offenders in the arts community around here. On 5/15/2014 9:45 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg I suspect it isn't his. Jostein has found this: http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
That depends on what you mean by lazy. One way the individual just does no work, another the individual steals code that works modifies it just enough to get the job done, a third, the individual writes relitively little code but what they write is what's necessary and sufficient to get the job done, (I've worked for companies where that was penalized, which is simply stupid, but the metric they judged by was lines of code produced per day), and the fourth the writes tones of code without thought, and may or may not get the job done, but they have a lot to show for their effort, no matter how little that really was. The first should be fired. The last probably will end up as a technical writer, from which position they should be fired. On 5/15/2014 11:07 AM, Charles Robinson wrote: On May 15, 2014, at 09:50 , Darren Addy wrote: It sounds like this student's biggest problem is laziness. I suggest someone turn him on to a career in I.T. Oh, boo! As someone in that field who just had to deal with a lazy cow-orker for the past two years before he finally left the company (why he was not fired, I have no idea) I just have to say N!!! -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Darren Addy wrote: >It sounds like this student's biggest problem is laziness. I suggest >someone turn him on to a career in I.T. No, his biggest problem is claiming someone else's work as his own. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
On May 15, 2014, at 09:50 , Darren Addy wrote: > It sounds like this student's biggest problem is laziness. I suggest > someone turn him on to a career in I.T. > Oh, boo! As someone in that field who just had to deal with a lazy cow-orker for the past two years before he finally left the company (why he was not fired, I have no idea) I just have to say N!!! -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Find me much of anything that ISN'T derivative. I'm reminded of the old chestnut, "If you steal from one author it's plagiarism; if you steal from many it's research." Same applies to design (or most anything else you can think of). It sounds like this student's biggest problem is laziness. I suggest someone turn him on to a career in I.T. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Stanley Halpin wrote: > I agree with Bob. The student’s work is clearly derivative if not a copy. > I did a Yahoo search for Burton boards since the designer’s site Jostein > pointed to seems to indicate that his design was for that company. I did an > unaided eye-ball scan of Yahoo images for Burton snowboards going back to > 2010, saw nothing like this design or the one on the designer’s site. So if > it is copied, it could be from an earlier board. My suspicion from the way > Burton designs vary, I would guess that this was a women’s rather than a > men’s board. > > In addition to the designer, maybe try contacting Burton? > > > stan > > On 15 May 2014, at 09:54, Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Bob Sullivan wrote: >> >>> Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, >>> I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. >> >> The student got an F in the course long before I even suspected >> plagiarism. (Skipped more than 25% of classes, skipped 50% of tests >> during the semester, turned in most work late and delivered a final >> project, which was in Adobe Illustrator, consisting of this JPEG image >> embedded in an Illustrator file! — his grade for the course was >> 37%...) >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Mark Roberts >>> wrote: One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg I suspect it isn't his. Jostein has found this: http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). >> >> -- >> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia >> www.robertstech.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Photographers must learn not to be ashamed to have their photographs look like photographs. ~ Alfred Stieglitz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Stanley Halpin wrote: >I agree with Bob. The students work is clearly derivative if not a copy. >I did a Yahoo search for Burton boards since the designers site Jostein >pointed to seems to indicate that his design was for that company. I did an >unaided eye-ball scan of Yahoo images for Burton snowboards going back to >2010, saw nothing like this design or the one on the designers site. So if it >is copied, it could be from an earlier board. My suspicion from the way Burton >designs vary, I would guess that this was a womens rather than a mens board. > >In addition to the designer, maybe try contacting Burton? Nah, the design wasn't done for Burton. The original design was done by a student, Sijle Bekkevold, as a class exercise. She chose Burton Snowboards just for the purposes of the assignment. (Run this page through Google Translate: http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/04/16/logo-burton-snowboard-design/) After examining my student's version, I'm thinking he modified the original design in Photoshop. -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
I agree with Bob. The student’s work is clearly derivative if not a copy. I did a Yahoo search for Burton boards since the designer’s site Jostein pointed to seems to indicate that his design was for that company. I did an unaided eye-ball scan of Yahoo images for Burton snowboards going back to 2010, saw nothing like this design or the one on the designer’s site. So if it is copied, it could be from an earlier board. My suspicion from the way Burton designs vary, I would guess that this was a women’s rather than a men’s board. In addition to the designer, maybe try contacting Burton? stan On 15 May 2014, at 09:54, Mark Roberts wrote: > Bob Sullivan wrote: > >> Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, >> I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. > > The student got an F in the course long before I even suspected > plagiarism. (Skipped more than 25% of classes, skipped 50% of tests > during the semester, turned in most work late and delivered a final > project, which was in Adobe Illustrator, consisting of this JPEG image > embedded in an Illustrator file! — his grade for the course was > 37%...) > > > > > >> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Mark Roberts >> wrote: >>> One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: >>> http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg >>> I suspect it isn't his. >>> >>> Jostein has found this: >>> http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll >>> down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same >>> designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and >>> I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web >>> anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). > > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia > www.robertstech.com > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Bob Sullivan wrote: >Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, >I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. The student got an F in the course long before I even suspected plagiarism. (Skipped more than 25% of classes, skipped 50% of tests during the semester, turned in most work late and delivered a final project, which was in Adobe Illustrator, consisting of this JPEG image embedded in an Illustrator file! his grade for the course was 37%...) >On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Mark Roberts > wrote: >> One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: >> http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg >> I suspect it isn't his. >> >> Jostein has found this: >> http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll >> down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same >> designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and >> I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web >> anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Perhaps The List can help with this?
Looking at the snowboard on the site Jostein uncovered, I'd give him an "F". Obvious copy of elements if not in total. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > One of my students tried to pass this if as his own work: > http://www.robertstech.com/temp/snowboard2.jpg > I suspect it isn't his. > > Jostein has found this: > http://ideblogg.no/siljebee/2013/06/10/semesterinnlevering/ (scroll > down to the second image) which really looks like the work of the same > designer. I'm trying to reach the designer through various means and > I'm looking to see if the exact image my student used is on the web > anywhere (Tin Eye and Google image search have been of no help yet). > > > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia > www.robertstech.com > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
