Re: Subject: LX repair update
Here's a different comparison and one I think fits very nicely. A friend of mine is in love with Jaguars (that's the cars by the way.) He has a lovely E-type and a newer Vandenplass. These cars have always been known as more than a little unreliable. Just keeping the 12 cylinders tuned is a full-time job. But accoriding to him and thousands of others who love them, the unreliability and sometimes annoying problems are worth the priveledge of owning and driving one. Maybe the LX fits into this category. I think their minor annoyances and, as some would say unreliability at times, is worth the price of parking them in your camera bag and taking them out for a spin whevever you damn well please. It is for me. Vic - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Excellent points Pal. vic In a message dated 8/3/02 6:51:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul wrote: Early R series cameras can be very unrelibale, but the R7, R8, R6 and R6.2 are reliable and built like a tank. The R8 had plenty of problems that are probably solved by now. If I remember correctly, the guy who tested the R8 for Photo.net (or was it elsewhere?) switched to Nikon due to it's low reliability. I'm sure Leicas are well made. So are Mercedes Benzes, but a Toyota is probably more reliable. I dont think any camera in maintenance free, being a mechanical piece of machinery things wear and need to be serviced. I would think that an M4 or M6 is very reliable camera. Remember that a Leica rangefinder are hugely simple devices compared to a complex camera like the LX. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Well at least I got a rise out of you. Yes I know I overstated the case and when I described the F3 as being as big as a 67. I kept away from any numbers because well it's impression that seems to be counting here and my impression of the F3 is that it's huge. I have to take exception to the airplane analogy. The apex of mechanical camera design camera design was in the mid to late 1980's I doubt that there is much different in the FE3 mechanically from a medium duty Nikon of that era. The difference is in the electronics. More a difference between a B53A and a B52G. Unfortunately the LX development was frozen around the E upgrade. At 11:42 PM 8/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Peter Alling Subject: Re: Re[2]: Subject: LX repair update I think you missed my point. William said that the use of mixed electronics and mechanicals in the shutter mechanism was a hodgepodge, and one of the reasons for the LX's supposed un-reliability. I pointed out that Nikon would probably not have used a similar setup if that was true. (I kind of like the FM3 by the way). Actually, I called it a bastard marriage. For the most part, the exposure system of the LX seems pretty reliable, keeping in mind that the heart of it is prone to rusting away. I don't think comparing the LX to the FM3 is valid, as they are from entirely different eras of manufacturing technology. You are comparing a Sopwith Camel to a Hawker Hurricane. I think that the comparison to the F3 is a bit unfair by the way. It is much bigger, almost as large and heavy as a Pentax 67. If you can't build in reliability by using bigger heavier parts then you're doing something wrong. Who are you trying to kid? The Nikon F3HP is: (W x H x D) : approx 148.5 x 101.5 x 69 mm. Body weight: Nikon F3HP: 760g approx. The 6x7 with the meter prism attached is: (W x H x D) 177 x 208 x 91mm, and weighs 2270g approx. The comparison is between top of the line cameras that are contemporaneous to each other from competing companies. It is a perfectly valid comparison. If making it bigger makes it more reliable, Pentax had the option of doing it with the LX, and the 6x7 would be their most reliable camera body. I do expect that if the 6x7 is in fact a less reliable camera, it is because it is actually used by pro photographers, and is subject to more wear and tear. I don't believe that statement for a minute, and no proof was given to back it up. From my own experience, the 6x7 is a very reliable product. I have known 4 of them that were used day to day by pro photographers, and they were all as reliable as a one piece hammer. My own 6x7 has been in the shop twice, once to cure T-Maxitus, which I don't hold against the camera, and once to repair a PC terminal that I broke right off the body. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
That should be B52 At 10:51 AM 8/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: Well at least I got a rise out of you. Yes I know I overstated the case and when I described the F3 as being as big as a 67. I kept away from any numbers because well it's impression that seems to be counting here and my impression of the F3 is that it's huge. I have to take exception to the airplane analogy. The apex of mechanical camera design camera design was in the mid to late 1980's I doubt that there is much different in the FE3 mechanically from a medium duty Nikon of that era. The difference is in the electronics. More a difference between a B53A and a B52G. Unfortunately the LX development was frozen around the E upgrade. At 11:42 PM 8/2/2002 -0600, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Peter Alling Subject: Re: Re[2]: Subject: LX repair update I think you missed my point. William said that the use of mixed electronics and mechanicals in the shutter mechanism was a hodgepodge, and one of the reasons for the LX's supposed un-reliability. I pointed out that Nikon would probably not have used a similar setup if that was true. (I kind of like the FM3 by the way). Actually, I called it a bastard marriage. For the most part, the exposure system of the LX seems pretty reliable, keeping in mind that the heart of it is prone to rusting away. I don't think comparing the LX to the FM3 is valid, as they are from entirely different eras of manufacturing technology. You are comparing a Sopwith Camel to a Hawker Hurricane. I think that the comparison to the F3 is a bit unfair by the way. It is much bigger, almost as large and heavy as a Pentax 67. If you can't build in reliability by using bigger heavier parts then you're doing something wrong. Who are you trying to kid? The Nikon F3HP is: (W x H x D) : approx 148.5 x 101.5 x 69 mm. Body weight: Nikon F3HP: 760g approx. The 6x7 with the meter prism attached is: (W x H x D) 177 x 208 x 91mm, and weighs 2270g approx. The comparison is between top of the line cameras that are contemporaneous to each other from competing companies. It is a perfectly valid comparison. If making it bigger makes it more reliable, Pentax had the option of doing it with the LX, and the 6x7 would be their most reliable camera body. I do expect that if the 6x7 is in fact a less reliable camera, it is because it is actually used by pro photographers, and is subject to more wear and tear. I don't believe that statement for a minute, and no proof was given to back it up. From my own experience, the 6x7 is a very reliable product. I have known 4 of them that were used day to day by pro photographers, and they were all as reliable as a one piece hammer. My own 6x7 has been in the shop twice, once to cure T-Maxitus, which I don't hold against the camera, and once to repair a PC terminal that I broke right off the body. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
On 3 Aug 2002 at 0:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've had very few real problems with my LXs (four and counting) (I know, it's a sickness). One thing I notice on the PUG that I don't really agree with is the quick suggestion by everyone to have a CLA on an LX every time it acts up. I think it's like a car, the less you send them in for repair, the less chance you are going to have any problem with them. Take care of them, use them, and you should be okay. Even a little sticky mirror is no big deal. It usually only sticks for the first shot. I suggest you use the mirror lockup once or twice and shoot away. Only if it becomes a real problem do I send them in for CLA. The trouble is that often the focus will be out slightly too and it gets worse progressively. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
On 2 Aug 2002 at 16:50, William Robb wrote: Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the camera (I am the guy who insisted on the LX Gallery, after all), but I am not going to kid myself thinking that it is more reliable than crack addict. You can kid yourself all you like. I had 2 P67 break, in both the meter aperture coupling chains failed, they are unreliable. My M6 cameras have been very reliable however I expect that they would need to have the RF aligned after the types of knocks that my LXs have received and survived. I have had only stick mirror, bent rewind cranks and ISO resistor problems with my LX, nothing more than I would expect. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Doesn't this rather prove that you are using an unreliable repairing facility? In fact, I discussed this with the Pentax repair man a couple of months ago. I can't remember the details but he claimed that many LX bodies was not in fact repaired properly as some servicing people were not familiar with the quirks of the LX. Often the symptom was fixed but not the underlaying cause. This is possible. regards, Alan Chan _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
I had 2 P67 break, in both the meter aperture coupling chains failed, they are unreliable. I wonder if P67II was more reliable. regards, Alan Chan _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
The trouble is that often the focus will be out slightly too and it gets worse progressively. And that means no more super sharp pictures. :( regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
- Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: Subject: LX repair update Doesn't this rather prove that you are using an unreliable repairing facility? In fact, I discussed this with the Pentax repair man a couple of months ago. I can't remember the details but he claimed that many LX bodies was not in fact repaired properly as some servicing people were not familiar with the quirks of the LX. Often the symptom was fixed but not the underlaying cause. Whether the camera is inherently unreliable or whether I cannot get repairs done reliably is moot. What is germaine (to me, anyway) is that my 3 LX's are going in for service far more often than they should be. I have used both Pentax Canada facilities, and an independant repair company. None have made my cameras what I would call dependable. If Pentax can't make the camera repairs, then they have a problem. If that is what is making my cameras unreliable, then I still have unreliable cameras. My first LX, which I bought new, needed service within 3 years of being purchased. My friends F3 will be 20 this year, and has NEVER seen a repair shop. This is what reliablility is about. For the record. it doesn't matter about the reliability of the camera, it is still, in my estimation, the best 35mm camera I have had the pleasure of owning. If I thought otherwise, I wouldn't have bought 3 of them, and a bunch of dedicated accessories. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
I have found the LX's i've owned to be quite unreliable also and they seem to enjoy the company of my service tech, in fact my remaining was is there right now :). I found the MZ-S pretty unreliable also. Although my first MZ5n was super reliable never missed a beat and i gave it hell. (not the one i sold you Cory:) Dont worry we'll still let you hand around if you switch to Leica :) Perhaps Pentax tried too hard on LX and MZ-S? Glad I still have my Z-1p. regards, Alan Chan _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Gee, I've never had a single problem with my LX. In fact, I've never had a serious problem with any Pentax camera I've owned. That's about 16 years worth of picture taking. Granted I'm not a pro and I don't use my gear on a daily basis but not a single camera body issue that required service in that length of time is a damn good record. I have had a wonky meter in a K1000 that liked to conk out in the vertical position (typical) and a slightly warped Super A lens mount. That's it. I ignored the first problem and swapped out the mount in the second. Maybe I'm blessed. Knock wood. -Brendan MacRae - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
I sometimes wonder if you guy's really have the same camera model I use. At 11:21 PM 8/1/2002 -0700, you wrote: I have found the LX's i've owned to be quite unreliable also and they seem to enjoy the company of my service tech, in fact my remaining was is there right now :). I found the MZ-S pretty unreliable also. Although my first MZ5n was super reliable never missed a beat and i gave it hell. (not the one i sold you Cory:) Dont worry we'll still let you hand around if you switch to Leica :) Perhaps Pentax tried too hard on LX and MZ-S? Glad I still have my Z-1p. regards, Alan Chan _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
William wrote: I am toying with the idea of selling it all and starting again with a Leica system. You don't buy Leica to get a maintanance free camera system! Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Alan wrote: Perhaps Pentax tried too hard on LX and MZ-S? The LX was sucessful from an engineering point of view; in fact; it's their proudest achievement. The MZ-S, however, suffers from being a rush job. They needed to get the digital version ready and to do that they had to postpone 35mm slr development in works. Due to this, they needed the rush a film version of the digital camera (MZ-S) to fill the obvious hole in the 35mm camera line-up. Hence, early MZ-S's suffers from some problems. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
Bruce wrote: You're not alone. I have resisted buying one for quite some time based largely on how much I read about it's problems. You don't hear nearly as much about problems with MX's or SuperPrograms, etc. Thats because people don't bother repairing ME's and Super Programs. The Pentax repair center here in Norway have tons of part cameras that the owners didn't bother using money on. They are used to scavenge parts. There were no LX among them as everyone of them get repaired. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
You don't buy Leica to get a maintanance free camera system! Pål Early R series cameras can be very unrelibale, but the R7, R8, R6 and R6.2 are reliable and built like a tank. The R6 and 6.2 are also quite small, whilst still maintaing a build quality that i have never seen another SLR to equal. I dont think any camera in maintenance free, being a mechanical piece of machinery things wear and need to be serviced. I would think that an M4 or M6 is very reliable camera. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
William wrote: What is weird is your insistence that because you happen to have a sample that held up, that is the norm, and all evidence to the contrary is dismissed as bad luck. Thats not what I'm insisting on. The LX does indeed have a track record and mine happen to be more representative than your three according to Pentax servicing people. The 67 needs far more maintaining than possibly any other pentax body. The LX is in the top rank. Also, Pentax have one of the lowest reclamation records in the industry. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
- Original Message - From: Rubenstein, Bruce M (Bruce) Subject: RE: Subject: LX repair update Bill, this is where I really sympathize with you. You have to put up with enough crap shooting with Pentax, and then they wind up sticking it to you too. After a certain point you've had enough and want to deal with a company that takes their business seriously, and not some kind of hobby. I was talking to the fellow who I sold my F3 to when I was financing the move to Pentax. He is a busy working pro, and figures in the past 15 years since he bought the camera he has put about 10,000 rolls of film through it. The thing has never seen a repair shop, and has worked flawlessly for him. I probably ran a couple of thousand rolls through it myself, with no trouble, so it has seen a whole bunch of use. The F2 that I owned prior to the F3 went to hell and beyond for me, and faithfully served me for 10 years, then served it's next owner just as faithfully for another 16 years until a boating accident finally killed it. Up until then, it was in the repair shop once, 6 months after going naked through the windscreen of my car at close to 50 MPH Meanwhile, my LX's seem to last about a year and a half between expensive repair jobs. I do like them, but I am glad I don't have to depend on them to put food on the table. I am also glad I am able to afford to keep them in the gentrified lifestyle they demand. My 3 LX's will cost in excess of $1200.00 this year in repairs. Based on the amount of film I shoot with them, and the repair frequency, I figure I am paying about $12.00 per roll of film, plus the cost of the film and processing, for the pleasure of using Pentax's finest camera bodies. Mu buddy with the F3 figures the camera was close to free, based on the number of exposure cycles it has given him, with absolutely no input costs other than the initial purchase price. What really annoys me is that they are so unreliable though I don't treat them badly. I live in a dry climate, I don't pound on them, and I don't run a lot of film through them, but I run enough to keep them exercised. They just don't seem as reliable as they should be. I did talk to the Pentax service manager today. He seemed quite annoyed with my plight, including apologizing for his staff member lying to me (his words, not mine). It seems they still don't have the parts in stock to do the repair, they were shipped parts that did not fit my camera. Some modifications were done during the production life, and my camera is one of the ones that was pre modification. He seems to think it is repairable, but he doesn't know quite how long it will take. Thanks William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
- Original Message - From: Matjaz Osojnik Subject: RE: Subject: LX repair update I wonder why you have choosen Nikon, then? Right now, I am wondering why I chose Pentax over Nikon. I am toying with the idea of selling it all and starting again with a Leica system. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
On 1 Aug 2002 at 18:44, William Robb wrote: Right now, I am wondering why I chose Pentax over Nikon. I am toying with the idea of selling it all and starting again with a Leica system. William Robb Har! SLR or M, out of the pan and into the fire! VBG Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
It's good to know there is someone who shares my view on the LX. regards, Alan Chan I was talking to the fellow who I sold my F3 to when I was financing the move to Pentax. He is a busy working pro, and figures in the past 15 years since he bought the camera he has put about 10,000 rolls of film through it. The thing has never seen a repair shop, and has worked flawlessly for him. I probably ran a couple of thousand rolls through it myself, with no trouble, so it has seen a whole bunch of use. The F2 that I owned prior to the F3 went to hell and beyond for me, and faithfully served me for 10 years, then served it's next owner just as faithfully for another 16 years until a boating accident finally killed it. Up until then, it was in the repair shop once, 6 months after going naked through the windscreen of my car at close to 50 MPH Meanwhile, my LX's seem to last about a year and a half between expensive repair jobs. I do like them, but I am glad I don't have to depend on them to put food on the table. I am also glad I am able to afford to keep them in the gentrified lifestyle they demand. My 3 LX's will cost in excess of $1200.00 this year in repairs. Based on the amount of film I shoot with them, and the repair frequency, I figure I am paying about $12.00 per roll of film, plus the cost of the film and processing, for the pleasure of using Pentax's finest camera bodies. Mu buddy with the F3 figures the camera was close to free, based on the number of exposure cycles it has given him, with absolutely no input costs other than the initial purchase price. What really annoys me is that they are so unreliable though I don't treat them badly. I live in a dry climate, I don't pound on them, and I don't run a lot of film through them, but I run enough to keep them exercised. They just don't seem as reliable as they should be. I did talk to the Pentax service manager today. He seemed quite annoyed with my plight, including apologizing for his staff member lying to me (his words, not mine). It seems they still don't have the parts in stock to do the repair, they were shipped parts that did not fit my camera. Some modifications were done during the production life, and my camera is one of the ones that was pre modification. He seems to think it is repairable, but he doesn't know quite how long it will take. Thanks William Robb _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Subject: LX repair update
I have found the LX's i've owned to be quite unreliable also and they seem to enjoy the company of my service tech, in fact my remaining was is there right now :). I found the MZ-S pretty unreliable also. Although my first MZ5n was super reliable never missed a beat and i gave it hell. (not the one i sold you Cory:) Dont worry we'll still let you hand around if you switch to Leica :) Regards, Paul - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Subject: LX repair update - Original Message - From: Matjaz Osojnik Subject: RE: Subject: LX repair update I wonder why you have choosen Nikon, then? Right now, I am wondering why I chose Pentax over Nikon. I am toying with the idea of selling it all and starting again with a Leica system. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
