Re: Aw: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Edwina Taborsky
 

Helmut- I followed Matsuno in his temporal analysis, which, I think,
fits in very well with Peirce. Matsuno is both a  world renowned
scientist and philosopher. 

Edwina
 On Fri 06/03/20  4:14 PM , "Helmut Raulien" h.raul...@gmx.de sent:
 Edwina, Dan, Jon, List,   Thank you, will do too (look at Koichiro
Matsuno). I remember long ago there was a discussion about how to
assign the tenses to the categories. You proposed the same like
Matsuno does: Present, perfect, progressive, and I proposed the
betweens of past-present, present-future, and past-future.   Now I
think, that both fits: It depends of whether you are the interpreting
system (subjectivity), as you said "notion of time", or you are
looking at (observing) an interpreting system (objectivity or
wannabe-objectivity).   What is happening in the primisense or the
first perception, is present or presence for the subject, but an
observer would say, that it has a reason. The altersense is a matter
of perfect tense for the subject: memories have come into play, but
for an outside observer these memories are entering the mind now and
have an effect on the future. The medisense, the thoughts, are
pointing into the future for the subject, and for the observer they
have a reason in the past, and an effect on the future.   Or
something like that, Best!   Helmut   06. März 2020 um 20:56 Uhr
  "Edwina Taborsky" 
 wrote:  

Helmut, Dan, list 
 Koichiro Matsuno, a bioengineer, and Peircean scholar,  has written
extensively on the notion of time, which he refers to as present,
perfect and progressive [comparable to 1ns,2nd, 3ns]… 

I suggest you google his name, and on for example, 
Researchgate.net, you'll find articles dealing with time in
physico-chemical and biological semiosis. 

For example. 

1]How does Time Flow in Living Systems: 

2]Temporality Naturalized [ where "The Schrodinger equation for
quantum mechanics, which is approachable in third-person description,
takes for granted tenseless time that does not distinguish between
different tenses such as past, present and future…. 

3] Time from Semiosis: E-series Time for Living systems. " We
develop a semiotic scheme of time, in which time precipates from the
repeated succession of punctuating the progressive tense by the
perfect tense. The underling principle is communication among local
participants. Time can thus be seen as a meaning-making, semiotic
system in which different time codes are delineated
4] The Quest for a Unified Theory of Information 

5] Google: Koichiro Matsuno- AltExploit. 'Abstract Expressions of
Time's Modalities 

He is a phenomenal scientist and scholar. 

Edwina
 On Fri 06/03/20 2:31 PM , "Daniel L. Everett"
danleveret...@icloud.com sent:  All very intriguing. It is
fascinating in light of this to think of the many ways that languages
choose to divide/classify time.   English, for example, has no
morphological future tense (thus one must say “will go”), though
it has morphological past (went) and present tenses (go). Other
languages have as many as five distinct past tenses, one present and
one future (there are many variations, but so far as I know languages
will have more past tenses than future tenses if they have multiples).
Other languages choose not to mark time at all morphologically (e.g.
on the verb) and also have very few words for precise times (e.g.
yesterday, today, tomorrow).There are many attempts/theories of
how natural language encodes time/temporal relations. Peirce’s
concept of time has been underexploited (to put it mildly) in
linguistics and clearly the connection of time theory to natural
language tense theories could be quite a fecund area of exploration. 
 Admitting the orthogonal nature of these remarks to the mainline of
discussion,   Dan   On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Helmut Raulien wrote:
   Jon, List,   I think, the question is, whether time is a
continuum, like an ether, in which all events and entities sort of
swim, or is a produce of the permanence of systems, with its
universality provided by the systems´ coupling.   The permanence of
a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of thirdness into
firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the interpretant
becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: Peirce´s
Primisense- Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the
thinking, re-enters the Primisense, the first iconic perception: We
have a picture of our thoughts.I guess it would be hard to
assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as such produce time,
because a re-entry and a permanence are only then possible, if a time
already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: Time and
systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe
(assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only
system, and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and
"before" in quotat

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Helmut Raulien
Edwina, Dan, Jon, List,

 

Thank you, will do too (look at Koichiro Matsuno). I remember long ago there was a discussion about how to assign the tenses to the categories. You proposed the same like Matsuno does: Present, perfect, progressive, and I proposed the betweens of past-present, present-future, and past-future.

 

Now I think, that both fits: It depends of whether you are the interpreting system (subjectivity), as you said "notion of time", or you are looking at (observing) an interpreting system (objectivity or wannabe-objectivity).

 

What is happening in the primisense or the first perception, is present or presence for the subject, but an observer would say, that it has a reason. The altersense is a matter of perfect tense for the subject: memories have come into play, but for an outside observer these memories are entering the mind now and have an effect on the future. The medisense, the thoughts, are pointing into the future for the subject, and for the observer they have a reason in the past, and an effect on the future.

 

Or something like that, Best!

 

Helmut

 
 

 06. März 2020 um 20:56 Uhr
 "Edwina Taborsky" 
wrote:


Helmut, Dan, list


Koichiro Matsuno, a bioengineer, and Peircean scholar,  has written extensively on the notion of time, which he refers to as present, perfect and progressive [comparable to 1ns,2nd, 3ns]…

I suggest you google his name, and on for example,  Researchgate.net, you'll find articles dealing with time in physico-chemical and biological semiosis.

For example.

1]How does Time Flow in Living Systems:

2]Temporality Naturalized [ where "The Schrodinger equation for quantum mechanics, which is approachable in third-person description, takes for granted tenseless time that does not distinguish between different tenses such as past, present and future….

3] Time from Semiosis: E-series Time for Living systems. " We develop a semiotic scheme of time, in which time precipates from the repeated succession of punctuating the progressive tense by the perfect tense. The underling principle is communication among local participants. Time can thus be seen as a meaning-making, semiotic system in which different time codes are delineated
 

4] The Quest for a Unified Theory of Information

5] Google: Koichiro Matsuno- AltExploit. 'Abstract Expressions of Time's Modalities

He is a phenomenal scientist and scholar.

Edwina

On Fri 06/03/20 2:31 PM , "Daniel L. Everett" danleveret...@icloud.com sent:


All very intriguing. It is fascinating in light of this to think of the many ways that languages choose to divide/classify time.

 

English, for example, has no morphological future tense (thus one must say “will go”), though it has morphological past (went) and present tenses (go). Other languages have as many as five distinct past tenses, one present and one future (there are many variations, but so far as I know languages will have more past tenses than future tenses if they have multiples). Other languages choose not to mark time at all morphologically (e.g. on the verb) and also have very few words for precise times (e.g. yesterday, today, tomorrow). 

 

There are many attempts/theories of how natural language encodes time/temporal relations. Peirce’s concept of time has been underexploited (to put it mildly) in linguistics and clearly the connection of time theory to natural language tense theories could be quite a fecund area of exploration.

 

Admitting the orthogonal nature of these remarks to the mainline of discussion,

 

Dan

 
On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Helmut Raulien wrote:
 





Jon, List,

 

I think, the question is, whether time is a continuum, like an ether, in which all events and entities sort of swim, or is a produce of the permanence of systems, with its universality provided by the systems´ coupling.

 

The permanence of a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of thirdness into firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the interpretant becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: Peirce´s Primisense- Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the thinking, re-enters the Primisense, the first iconic perception: We have a picture of our thoughts.

 

I guess it would be hard to assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as such produce time, because a re-entry and a permanence are only then possible, if a time already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: Time and systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe (assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only system, and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and "before" in quotation marks, because without a preceding time, these words cannot really be applied.

 

Best,

Helmut


 06. März 2020 um 18:32 Uhr
 "Jon Alan Schmidt"
wrote:



Jeff, List:

 


JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note that Peirce engaged in "mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic, and metaphysical" inquiries con

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Daniel L. Everett
Many thanks, Edwina. Will do.

Dan

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Edwina Taborsky  wrote:
> 
> 
> Helmut, Dan, list
> 
> 
> Koichiro Matsuno, a bioengineer, and Peircean scholar,  has written 
> extensively on the notion of time, which he refers to as present, perfect and 
> progressive [comparable to 1ns,2nd, 3ns]…
> 
> I suggest you google his name, and on for example,  Researchgate.net, you'll 
> find articles dealing with time in physico-chemical and biological semiosis.
> 
> For example.
> 
> 1]How does Time Flow in Living Systems:
> 
> 2]Temporality Naturalized [ where "The Schrodinger equation for quantum 
> mechanics, which is approachable in third-person description, takes for 
> granted tenseless time that does not distinguish between different tenses 
> such as past, present and future….
> 
> 3] Time from Semiosis: E-series Time for Living systems. " We develop a 
> semiotic scheme of time, in which time precipates from the repeated 
> succession of punctuating the progressive tense by the perfect tense. The 
> underling principle is communication among local participants. Time can thus 
> be seen as a meaning-making, semiotic system in which different time codes 
> are delineated
>  
> 
> 4] The Quest for a Unified Theory of Information
> 
> 5] Google: Koichiro Matsuno- AltExploit. 'Abstract Expressions of Time's 
> Modalities
> 
> He is a phenomenal scientist and scholar.
> 
> Edwina
> 
> On Fri 06/03/20 2:31 PM , "Daniel L. Everett" danleveret...@icloud.com sent:
> 
> All very intriguing. It is fascinating in light of this to think of the many 
> ways that languages choose to divide/classify time.
> 
> English, for example, has no morphological future tense (thus one must say 
> “will go”), though it has morphological past (went) and present tenses (go). 
> Other languages have as many as five distinct past tenses, one present and 
> one future (there are many variations, but so far as I know languages will 
> have more past tenses than future tenses if they have multiples). Other 
> languages choose not to mark time at all morphologically (e.g. on the verb) 
> and also have very few words for precise times (e.g. yesterday, today, 
> tomorrow). 
> 
> There are many attempts/theories of how natural language encodes 
> time/temporal relations. Peirce’s concept of time has been underexploited (to 
> put it mildly) in linguistics and clearly the connection of time theory to 
> natural language tense theories could be quite a fecund area of exploration.
> 
> Admitting the orthogonal nature of these remarks to the mainline of 
> discussion,
> 
> Dan
> 
>> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Helmut Raulien wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Jon, List,
>>  
>> I think, the question is, whether time is a continuum, like an ether, in 
>> which all events and entities sort of swim, or is a produce of the 
>> permanence of systems, with its universality provided by the systems´ 
>> coupling.
>>  
>> The permanence of a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of 
>> thirdness into firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the 
>> interpretant becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: 
>> Peirce´s Primisense- Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the 
>> thinking, re-enters the Primisense, the first iconic perception: We have a 
>> picture of our thoughts.
>>  
>> I guess it would be hard to assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as 
>> such produce time, because a re-entry and a permanence are only then 
>> possible, if a time already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: 
>> Time and systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe 
>> (assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only 
>> system, and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and 
>> "before" in quotation marks, because without a preceding time, these words 
>> cannot really be applied.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Helmut
>>  06. März 2020 um 18:32 Uhr
>>  "Jon Alan Schmidt" 
>> wrote:
>> Jeff, List:
>>  
>> JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note that Peirce engaged in 
>> "mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic, and metaphysical" inquiries 
>> concerning time. Do you have any suggestions about how we might tease out 
>> the different threads? Each seems to involve somewhat different methods.
>>  
>> I agree that each involves different methods, and I have made several 
>> attempts (so far unsuccessful) to start writing a paper (or two) with the 
>> goal of teasing out those different threads.  Peirce himself seems to think 
>> that we can "harmonize" them (his word) by recognizing the continuity of 
>> time; in fact, our direct perception of the continuous flow of time in 
>> phenomenology is what prompts our retroductive hypothesis  of a true 
>> continuum in mathematics, which we then explicate deductively and evaluate 
>> inductively in other sciences.
>>  
>> CSP:  One opinion which has been put forward and which seems, at any rate, 
>> to be tenable and to ha

[PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Edwina Taborsky
 

Helmut, Dan, list
 Koichiro Matsuno, a bioengineer, and Peircean scholar,  has written
extensively on the notion of time, which he refers to as present,
perfect and progressive [comparable to 1ns,2nd, 3ns]… 

I suggest you google his name, and on for example, 
Researchgate.net, you'll find articles dealing with time in
physico-chemical and biological semiosis. 

For example.

1]How does Time Flow in Living Systems: 

2]Temporality Naturalized [ where "The Schrodinger equation for
quantum mechanics, which is approachable in third-person description,
takes for granted tenseless time that does not distinguish between
different tenses such as past, present and future….

3] Time from Semiosis: E-series Time for Living systems. " We
develop a semiotic scheme of time, in which time precipates from the
repeated succession of punctuating the progressive tense by the
perfect tense. The underling principle is communication among local
participants. Time can thus be seen as a meaning-making, semiotic
system in which different time codes are delineated
4] The Quest for a Unified Theory of Information

5] Google: Koichiro Matsuno- AltExploit. 'Abstract Expressions of
Time's Modalities

He is a phenomenal scientist and scholar.

Edwina
 On Fri 06/03/20  2:31 PM , "Daniel L. Everett"
danleveret...@icloud.com sent:
 All very intriguing. It is fascinating in light of this to think of
the many ways that languages choose to divide/classify time.
 English, for example, has no morphological future tense (thus one
must say “will go”), though it has morphological past (went) and
present tenses (go). Other languages have as many as five distinct
past tenses, one present and one future (there are many variations,
but so far as I know languages will have more past tenses than future
tenses if they have multiples). Other languages choose not to mark
time at all morphologically (e.g. on the verb) and also have very few
words for precise times (e.g. yesterday, today, tomorrow).  
 There are many attempts/theories of how natural language encodes
time/temporal relations. Peirce’s concept of time has been
underexploited (to put it mildly) in linguistics and clearly the
connection of time theory to natural language tense theories could be
quite a fecund area of exploration.
 Admitting the orthogonal nature of these remarks to the mainline of
discussion,
  Dan
 On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Helmut Raulien  wrote:
 Jon, List,   I think, the question is, whether time is a
continuum, like an ether, in which all events and entities sort of
swim, or is a produce of the permanence of systems, with its
universality provided by the systems´ coupling.   The permanence of
a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of thirdness into
firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the interpretant
becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: Peirce´s
Primisense- Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the
thinking, re-enters the Primisense, the first iconic perception: We
have a picture of our thoughts.I guess it would be hard to
assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as such produce time,
because a re-entry and a permanence are only then possible, if a time
already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: Time and
systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe
(assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only
system, and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and
"before" in quotation marks, because without a preceding time, these
words cannot really be applied.   Best, Helmut   06. März 2020 um
18:32 Uhr
  "Jon Alan Schmidt" 
 wrote:   Jeff, List:JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note
that Peirce engaged in "mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic,
and metaphysical" inquiries concerning time. Do you have any
suggestions about how we might tease out the different threads? Each
seems to involve somewhat different methods.I agree that each
involves different methods, and I have made several attempts (so far
unsuccessful) to start writing a paper (or two) with the goal of
teasing out those different threads.  Peirce himself seems to think
that we can "harmonize" them (his word) by recognizing the continuity
of time; in fact, our direct perception of the continuous flow of time
in phenomenology is what prompts our retroductive hypothesis  of a
true continuum in mathematics, which we then explicate deductively
and evaluate inductively in other sciences.CSP:  One opinion
which has been put forward and which seems, at any rate, to be
tenable and to harmonize with the modern logico-mathematical
conceptions, is that our image of the flow of events receives, in a
strictly continuous time, strictly continual accessions on the side
of the future, while fading in a gradual manner on the side of the
past, and that thus the absolutely immediate present is gradually
transfo

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Daniel L. Everett
All very intriguing. It is fascinating in light of this to think of the many 
ways that languages choose to divide/classify time.

English, for example, has no morphological future tense (thus one must say 
“will go”), though it has morphological past (went) and present tenses (go). 
Other languages have as many as five distinct past tenses, one present and one 
future (there are many variations, but so far as I know languages will have 
more past tenses than future tenses if they have multiples). Other languages 
choose not to mark time at all morphologically (e.g. on the verb) and also have 
very few words for precise times (e.g. yesterday, today, tomorrow). 

There are many attempts/theories of how natural language encodes time/temporal 
relations. Peirce’s concept of time has been underexploited (to put it mildly) 
in linguistics and clearly the connection of time theory to natural language 
tense theories could be quite a fecund area of exploration.

Admitting the orthogonal nature of these remarks to the mainline of discussion,

Dan

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Helmut Raulien  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jon, List,
>  
> I think, the question is, whether time is a continuum, like an ether, in 
> which all events and entities sort of swim, or is a produce of the permanence 
> of systems, with its universality provided by the systems´ coupling.
>  
> The permanence of a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of thirdness 
> into firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the interpretant 
> becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: Peirce´s Primisense- 
> Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the thinking, re-enters the 
> Primisense, the first iconic perception: We have a picture of our thoughts.
>  
> I guess it would be hard to assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as 
> such produce time, because a re-entry and a permanence are only then 
> possible, if a time already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: 
> Time and systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe 
> (assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only system, 
> and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and "before" in 
> quotation marks, because without a preceding time, these words cannot really 
> be applied.
>  
> Best,
> Helmut
>  06. März 2020 um 18:32 Uhr
>  "Jon Alan Schmidt" 
> wrote:
> Jeff, List:
>  
> JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note that Peirce engaged in 
> "mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic, and metaphysical" inquiries 
> concerning time. Do you have any suggestions about how we might tease out the 
> different threads? Each seems to involve somewhat different methods.
>  
> I agree that each involves different methods, and I have made several 
> attempts (so far unsuccessful) to start writing a paper (or two) with the 
> goal of teasing out those different threads.  Peirce himself seems to think 
> that we can "harmonize" them (his word) by recognizing the continuity of 
> time; in fact, our direct perception of the continuous flow of time in 
> phenomenology is what prompts our retroductive hypothesis of a true continuum 
> in mathematics, which we then explicate deductively and evaluate inductively 
> in other sciences.
>  
> CSP:  One opinion which has been put forward and which seems, at any rate, to 
> be tenable and to harmonize with the modern logico-mathematical conceptions, 
> is that our image of the flow of events receives, in a strictly continuous 
> time, strictly continual accessions on the side of the future, while fading 
> in a gradual manner on the side of the past, and that thus the absolutely 
> immediate present is gradually transformed by an immediately given change 
> into a continuum of the reality of which we are thus assured. The argument is 
> that in this way, and apparently in this way only, our having the idea of a 
> true continuum can be accounted for. (CP 8.123n; c. 1902)
>  
> Logic then provides a plausible explanation for the so-called "arrow of 
> time."  Peirce initially wrote the following in one of his notebooks.
>  
> CSP:  1.  A time is a determination of actuality independent of the identity 
> of individuals, and related to other times as stated below. According to the 
> present proposition we may speak of the state of different things at the same 
> time as well as of the states of the same thing at different times and, of 
> course, of different things at different times and of the same thing at the 
> same time.
> 2.  At different times a proposition concerning the same things may be true 
> and false; just as a predicate may at any one time be true and false of 
> different things. Time is therefore a determination of existents. (NEM 2:611; 
> c. 1904-5)
>  
> A few years later, he offered a correction on the opposite page, which is 
> otherwise blank.
>  
> CSP:  I can hardly now see how time can be called a determination of 
> actuality. It is certainly a l

Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Helmut Raulien
Jon, List,

 

I think, the question is, whether time is a continuum, like an ether, in which all events and entities sort of swim, or is a produce of the permanence of systems, with its universality provided by the systems´ coupling.

 

The permanence of a system, I think, is provided by the re-entry of thirdness into firstness, like in a semiosis (a semiotic system) the interpretant becomes the new representamen. Or like in consciousness: Peirce´s Primisense- Altersense- Medisense model, where the Medisense, the thinking, re-enters the Primisense, the first iconic perception: We have a picture of our thoughts.

 

I guess it would be hard to assume, that this re-.entry and permanence as such produce time, because a re-entry and a permanence are only then possible, if a time already exists. But maybe it is a bilateral dependency: Time and systems only exist together. In the beginning of the universe (assuming there was a big bang), the "new" born universe was the only system, and "before" the big bang there was no time. I put "new" and "before" in quotation marks, because without a preceding time, these words cannot really be applied.

 

Best,

Helmut


 06. März 2020 um 18:32 Uhr
 "Jon Alan Schmidt" 
wrote:



Jeff, List:

 


JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note that Peirce engaged in "mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic, and metaphysical" inquiries concerning time. Do you have any suggestions about how we might tease out the different threads? Each seems to involve somewhat different methods.


 

I agree that each involves different methods, and I have made several attempts (so far unsuccessful) to start writing a paper (or two) with the goal of teasing out those different threads.  Peirce himself seems to think that we can "harmonize" them (his word) by recognizing the continuity of time; in fact, our direct perception of the continuous flow of time in phenomenology is what prompts our retroductive hypothesis of a true continuum in mathematics, which we then explicate deductively and evaluate inductively in other sciences.

 


CSP:  One opinion which has been put forward and which seems, at any rate, to be tenable and to harmonize with the modern logico-mathematical conceptions, is that our image of the flow of events receives, in a strictly continuous time, strictly continual accessions on the side of the future, while fading in a gradual manner on the side of the past, and that thus the absolutely immediate present is gradually transformed by an immediately given change into a continuum of the reality of which we are thus assured. The argument is that in this way, and apparently in this way only, our having the idea of a true continuum can be accounted for. (CP 8.123n; c. 1902)


 

Logic then provides a plausible explanation for the so-called "arrow of time."  Peirce initially wrote the following in one of his notebooks.

 


CSP:  1.  A time is a determination of actuality independent of the identity of individuals, and related to other times as stated below. According to the present proposition we may speak of the state of different things at the same time as well as of the states of the same thing at different times and, of course, of different things at different times and of the same thing at the same time.
2.  At different times a proposition concerning the same things may be true and false; just as a predicate may at any one time be true and false of different things. Time is therefore a determination of existents. (NEM 2:611; c. 1904-5)

 

A few years later, he offered a correction on the opposite page, which is otherwise blank.

 


CSP:  I can hardly now see how time can be called a determination of actuality. It is certainly a law. It is simply a unidimensional continuum of sorts of states of things and that these have an antitypy is shown by the fact that a sort of state of things and a different one cannot both be at the same time. And in consequence of this antitypy a state of things varies in one way and cannot turn round to vary the other way. Or to state it better a variation between state A and state B is limited to occurrence in one direction, just as the form of a body in space is limited to one or other of two perverse positions in space. (NEM 2:611; 1908 Aug 13)


 

Peirce here maintains the mathematical characterization of time as "a unidimensional continuum," but describes its parts as "sorts of states of things" and affirms the phenomenological fact that time flows in only one direction.  Turning to metaphysics, one thing that occurred to me just this week is that these different threads at least loosely correspond to the three main theories about time in the current philosophical literature.



	Eternalism - past, present, and future all exist.
	Presentism - only the present exists.
	Growing Block - only the past and present exist.



If we substitute reality for existence, these correspond respectively to Peirce's mathematical, phenomenological, and log

Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Reality of Time

2020-03-06 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
Jeff, List:

JD:  At the beginning of the post, you note that Peirce engaged in
"mathematical, phenomenological, semeiotic, and metaphysical" inquiries
concerning time. Do you have any suggestions about how we might tease out
the different threads? Each seems to involve somewhat different methods.


I agree that each involves different methods, and I have made several
attempts (so far unsuccessful) to start writing a paper (or two) with the
goal of teasing out those different threads.  Peirce himself seems to think
that we can "harmonize" them (his word) by recognizing the *continuity *of
time; in fact, our direct *perception* of the continuous flow of time
in *phenomenology
*is what prompts our retroductive *hypothesis *of a true continuum in
*mathematics*, which we then explicate deductively and evaluate inductively
in other sciences.

CSP:  One opinion which has been put forward and which seems, at any rate,
to be tenable and to harmonize with the modern logico-mathematical
conceptions, is that our image of the flow of events receives, in a
strictly continuous time, strictly continual accessions on the side of the
future, while fading in a gradual manner on the side of the past, and that
thus the absolutely immediate present is gradually transformed by an
immediately given change into a continuum of the reality of which we are
thus assured. The argument is that in this way, and apparently in this way
only, our having the idea of a true continuum can be accounted for. (CP
8.123n; c. 1902)


Logic then provides a plausible explanation for the so-called "arrow of
time."  Peirce initially wrote the following in one of his notebooks.

CSP:  1.  A *time *is a determination of actuality independent of the
identity of individuals, and related to other times as stated below.
According to the present proposition we may speak of the state of different
things at the same time as well as of the states of the same thing at
different times and, of course, of different things at different times and
of the same thing at the same time.
2.  At different times a proposition concerning the same things may be true
and false; just as a predicate may at any one time be true and false of
different things. Time is therefore a determination of existents. (NEM
2:611; c. 1904-5)


A few years later, he offered a correction on the opposite page, which is
otherwise blank.

CSP:  I can hardly now see how time can be called a determination of
*actuality*. It is certainly a law. It is simply a unidimensional continuum
of sorts of states of things and that these have an antitypy is shown by
the fact that a sort of state of things and a different one cannot both be *at
the same time*. And in consequence of this antitypy a state of things
varies in one way and cannot turn round to vary the other way. Or to state
it better a variation between state A and state B is limited to occurrence
in one direction, just as the form of a body in space is limited to one or
other of two perverse positions in space. (NEM 2:611; 1908 Aug 13)


Peirce here maintains the *mathematical *characterization of time as "a
unidimensional continuum," but describes its parts as "sorts of states of
things" and affirms the *phenomenological *fact that time flows in only one
direction.  Turning to *metaphysics*, one thing that occurred to me just
this week is that these different threads at least loosely correspond to
the three main theories about time in the current philosophical literature.

   1. Eternalism - past, present, and future all exist.
   2. Presentism - only the present exists.
   3. Growing Block - only the past and present exist.

If we substitute *reality *for *existence*, these correspond respectively
to Peirce's mathematical, phenomenological, and logical/semeiotic
conceptions of time--a one-dimensional continuous whole, isomorphic to a
line figure (cf. CP 1.273; 1902); an indefinite moment that involves
memory, confrontation, and anticipation (cf. CP 7.653; 1903); and an
ongoing process by which the indeterminate becomes determinate (cf. CP
5.459, EP 2:357-358; 1905).  I have come to believe that #3 is closest to
his overall view and can incorporate the insights of the other two.  It is
unfortunate that there is not a more formal name for it; one recent
dissertation suggests "accretivism," but I doubt that this will catch on.
My tentative name for Peirce's version of it is *temporal synechism*.  It
seems noteworthy that the basic idea of the "growing block" is that reality
itself is getting "larger," which is reminiscent of a passage in Kelly A.
Parker's book, *The Continuity of Peirce's Thought*.

KAP:  The dynamical object in each successive representation in the process
[of semeiosis] is necessarily different from that of its predecessor. The
dynamical object of the first representation is the real universe at that
time, and the immediate object is an abstraction consisting of some aspects
of this reality. The next representation, however, cannot