Re: [GENERAL] Which CMS/Ecommerce/Shopping cart ?

[Ned Lilly]

On 7/28/2010 3:06 PM Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:

yup I did. The reason why I wanted examples was to amply demonstrate,to 
clients, that postgresql is viable.
It is kinda weird if the only examples I have are restricted to the postgresql 
_community_ websites themselves.


Both xTuple web sites (www.xtuple.com and www.xtuple.org) run on 
Drupal/Postgres, and our xChange app store runs on ubercart.

BTW, we've also integrated Drupal with the CRM and sales functionality in 
xTuple - www.xtuple.com/webportal.

We've had zero issues with Postgres support in Drupal.

Cheers,
Ned




 

This may sound irrelevant, but please do understand the huge opposition to have 
anything to do with PG in the whole CMS/e-store community. In fact I even saw a 
request to eliminate postgresql support in Drupal 7 (that was taken care of by 
the valiant efforts of the PG community) : http://drupal.org/node/337146

Plus, it would have been interesting to know which version of Drupal, Ubercart, 
etc was being used for such deployments. Again, it is relevant because of 
certain (older) benchmarks which denote significantly worse performance because 
of the suboptimal way that Drupal integrates with Postgresql : 
http://mikkel.hoegh.org/blog/2008/oct/13/drupal-database-performance-mysql-postgresql/
There has been _nothing_ to disprove the above numbers, ever since - please 
correct me if I am wrong.

What does a person making a case for Postgres do in this situation ?

thanks



On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Joshua D. Drake mailto:j...@commandprompt.com>> wrote:

On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 22:37 +0530, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
 > Could you point me to any deployments of Drupal + Ubercart  +
 > Postgres ?

Did you not see the links below?

 >
 >
 >
 > Drupal + Ubercart + a ton of their modules work great. It is
 > what drives:
 >
 > http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
 > http://www.postgresql.us
 > http://www.fossexperts.com/
 > http://www.commandprompt.com/portal
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake(at)jabber(dot)postgresql(dot)org
 >   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
 >   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
 >   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
 >
 >

--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
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Re: [GENERAL] reporting tools

[Ned Lilly]

On 10/14/2007 6:41 PM Geoffrey wrote:

Bill Moran wrote:

Geoffrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Andrus wrote:
I guess I should have noted that we will need to run this on Linux 
clients.

Geoffrey,

You can run FYIReporting engine in Linux using MONO ( www.go-mono.com )

Thanks, we're looking for something that will run natively on Linux.


I read this, almost deleted it, read it again ...

Just in case there's confusion, MONO + FYIReporting _is_ native on Linux.

At least, as much so as Java on Linux is.


We are not interested in using any Microsoft technologies, or 
technologies based on Microsoft technologies.


It's a philosophical position.



Geoffrey, have you looked at OpenRPT?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openrpt

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Re: [GENERAL] Reporting services for PostgreSQL

[Ned Lilly]

Hi Andrus,

There are some pretty good PDF docs that would be a good starting point for all 
of your questions - see http://www.xtuple.org/?q=node/2177. (They're also in 
the downloads area of the Sourceforge site, but a little hard to find).

Speaking of the downloads, if you check there 
(http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=132959&package_id=146756),
 you'll see that version 2.2 was released on July 27, 2007 - so I'm not sure what 
you mean about not being updated in almost a year.

Yes, as of version 2.2, the project is now licensed under LGPL.  We heard from 
a number of people that they weren't comfortable contributing to a 
dual-licensed product.  If you're interested in commercial support, xTuple has 
a couple of options at www.openrpt.com.

As for the roadmap for the future, I'd encourage you to visit our community 
site at www.openrpt.org (aka xTuple.org).

Cheers,
Ned


On 9/5/2007 1:21 PM Andrus wrote:

Thank you.

How server-side reporting works ?
Will it use some C  stored proceure in server ?
In which format rendered report is sent back ?

I need to call it in C#
Where to find example calling OpenRpt in MONO / .NET ?

Is OpenRpt now in LGPL, I havent found any announcment about licence change 
?


Is there any roadmap for future, OpenRpt is not updated almost a year ?

Andrus.


"Ned Lilly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjutas sõnumis 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Try OpenRPT - server side rendering engine, and client-side GUI designer.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openrpt

Cheers,
Ned


On 9/1/2007 7:12 AM Andrus wrote:
I'm looking for a report generator which renders reports in server and 
sends rendering result

to client.

any idea ?

Andrus.



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Re: [GENERAL] Reporting services for PostgreSQL

[Ned Lilly]

Try OpenRPT - server side rendering engine, and client-side GUI designer.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openrpt

Cheers,
Ned


On 9/1/2007 7:12 AM Andrus wrote:
I'm looking for a report generator which renders reports in server and sends 
rendering result

to client.

any idea ?

Andrus.



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Re: [GENERAL] reporting tools

[Ned Lilly]

On 8/23/2007 10:07 AM Thomas Kellerer wrote:

Ned Lilly wrote on 23.08.2007 15:44:
This is specifically why we released OpenRPT as open source - it's 
very lightweight, no Java required.  http://sf.net/projects/openrpt


I am a Java developer and thus I have no problems in using Java based 
tools. Especially because I ususally only have a JDBC driver for the 
databases I use around (especially with Oracle this is *very* nice, 
because it does not require a full client install, only a single .jar file)


But OpenRPT looks quite nice, I'll have a look at it as well. I guess I 
need to install the whole ODBC "shebang" for that, right :)


Heh.  Actually, no, there's a native Postgres connection as well.  And you can 
compile it with any other native db driver provided by Qt (but why on earth 
would anyone want to use any other db ;-)

Cheers,
Ned


--
Ned Lilly
President and CEO
xTuple
119 West York Street
Norfolk, VA 23510
tel. 757.461.3022 x101
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.xtuple.com

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Re: [GENERAL] reporting tools

[Ned Lilly]

On 8/23/2007 5:16 AM Thomas Kellerer wrote:

Phoenix Kiula wrote on 23.08.2007 10:42:

On 23/08/07, Scott Marlowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of CR, but it's worked with PostgreSQL
for quite some time now.  We had it hitting a pg7.2 db back in the
day, when hip kids road around in rag top roadsters and wore tshirts
with cigarettes rolled in their sleeves.

Also, look at Pentaho.  It's open source and pretty good.




Thanks. Pentaho looks good. But are there any alternatives that don't
require me to spend days installing the whole Java shebang?


If you don't need a server-based solution, you might want to look at 
iReport designer.


Although it is also Java based it only needs a runtime environment on 
the client (not sure if that qualifies for "whole shebang" for you as 
well):


This is specifically why we released OpenRPT as open source - it's very 
lightweight, no Java required.  http://sf.net/projects/openrpt

Cheers,
Ned


--
Ned Lilly
President and CEO
xTuple
119 West York Street
Norfolk, VA 23510
tel. 757.461.3022 x101
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.xtuple.com

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Re: [GENERAL] Postgresql mentioned on Newsforge MySQL article

[Ned Lilly]

Chris Mair wrote:


PS: this is, by the way a few months old, I'm wondering why MySQL
does the press release only now...


Because they don't have anything else to talk about, and are filling a vacuum?

Cheers,
NL

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Re: [GENERAL] Oracle purchases Sleepycat - is this the "other shoe"

[Ned Lilly]

Without going into the particulars, let's just say the total amount spent was 
less than publicly announced figures, and the parent (sole investor) shut it 
down before coming close to those figures.


Bruno Wolff III wrote:

On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 10:52:53 -0400,
  "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Greatbridge had "major funding", and succeeded in burning it off in, what, 
12 months?


It's been a long time, but I thought they still had a significant amount
of money left when Greatbridge was shut down.

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Re: [GENERAL] Oracle purchases Sleepycat - is this the "other shoe"

[Ned Lilly]

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Bruce Momjian wrote:


MySQL already has major funding.  I don't see how it could get worse for
us if Oracle bought them.


I think that Leonards point here is that if Oracle were to acquire them 
and market MySQL as 'the low-end alternative', that they have a huge 
marketing budget that they could bring to bear on this ... one that I 
imagine makes MySQL's look like pocket change ...


Greatbridge had "major funding", and succeeded in burning it off in, 
what, 12 months?


Umm, I think MySQL has executed a little better than the late Great Bridge.  I 
should know.

I think Bruce's point was that any Oracle-MySQL combination would just be more 
of the same - highly visible low-end database, not really challenging Oracle 
10, single-company-directed, not really that open a development community.

Frankly, I think that would be pretty good news for PostgreSQL.  It would just underscore 
the strengths of the PG community.  Will be interesting to see if Oracle really does buy 
JBoss or Zend, and whether those communities fork in some way as has been widely 
forecast.  I think the point that "it can't happen to PostgreSQL" is pretty 
solid.

That's not to say marketing's not extremely important for PostgreSQL.  We're still the underdog in that fight, and would be more so if Oracle bought MySQL.  


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[GENERAL] CA spins off Ingres to a new company

[Ned Lilly]

This has been in the works for some time, but it's finally official:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/07/CHNcaspinsingres_1.html

http://www.ingres.com/

Ingres CEO:  "Our goal is to become the leading business open-source database 
supplier to the enterprise community."

Cheers,
Ned

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Re: [GENERAL] FOSS Reporting tools (was Oracle 10g Express - any

[Ned Lilly]

Re: the learning curve, I'd certainly include OpenRPT - 
http://openrpt.sourceforge.net

It's similar to Crystal or Access' report designer, and full rich GUI for all 
platforms (Win, Mac, Linux/BSD).

PDF documentation at 
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=132959&package_id=146756&release_id=321441

Cheers,
Ned


Joshua D. Drake wrote:
=== 

A) Are there any FOSS SQL scripting tools that output data ready for reporting 
(like SQR, but better)?



Open Office Base, OpenMFG, Jasper ...



B) Are there any FOSS tools that will take data and build pretty output.



See above.


C) Are there any FOSS tools of type B that will take streaming input from some 
tool of type A.



Unknown.


D) Are there any FOSS tools that combine both A and B into one low learning 
curve package like Crystal Reports.



Open Office Base, Jasper...

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake





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Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] Oracle buys Innobase

[Ned Lilly]

Tom Lane wrote:


(BTW, has anyone looked lately to see how far away Postgres is from
being able to run SAP?)


It runs OpenMFG just fine ;-)

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [GENERAL] Oracle buys Innobase

[Ned Lilly]

Bruce Momjian wrote:

Marc Fournier owns the PostgreSQL trademark and domain names.  


Minor point here, but the following domain names:

postgresql.com
postgres.com
postgres.org

... were contributed back to the project by the late Great Bridge LLC, and are 
registered to the PGDG - with Tom as the admin contact, Marc as the tech 
contact.  Marc/Hub.org has historically owned postgresql.org and 
postgresql.net, and it looks like postgres.net got picked up by some guy who's 
sitting on it.

Cheers,
Ned

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Re: [GENERAL] Oracle buys Innobase

[Ned Lilly]

Jan Wieck wrote:

To have a really good position when talking to Oracle, MySQL will need 
to brush up on the BDB support, and that pretty quick.


Maybe Oracle will buy Sleepycat too, and foreclose that option ;-)

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Re: [GENERAL] Please Recommend a Front End App

[Ned Lilly]

Kurt, you might want to take a look at OpenRPT 
(http://pgfoundry.org/projects/openrpt/) - it's a Crystal/Access type report 
builder for PostgreSQL that works great on any of the feline Mac products.
We don't do print to PDF yet, however, someone has raised his hand to work on 
that with some existing libraries.
Cheers,
Ned
Kurt Gibson wrote:
Newbie - please help me choose a direction.
I want to know what would be the best front-end app/language to use for 
postgresql for exact form replication and ease of use.  PHP, Python, 
Java, Rekall (the Kompany), other?  All suggestions welcome and 
appreciated.

Background---
I am coming from Filemaker Pro 5.0 and Mac OS 10.2.8.
I am the newest of newbies to postgresql.  I just downloaded the 
database today.  I have not started the database and do not even know if 
I can run it on my computers.  I have a few old WinTel machines at home 
but run mainly Macs at the office.

One important solution I created in Filemaker Pro requires very detailed 
and exact replication of official court forms with database data entered 
on the forms.  Imagine a form with small type, boxes and spacing that 
must be exactly as on the official form and data from the database on 
the form as printed to pdf.  One nice thing about Filemaker is that its 
reporting ability is very flexible.

I also have an extensive solution with approx 50 tables/databases to run 
my small business.  I built a calendar, contacts, clients, timelog, and 
billing solution.  I have been bumping my head against Filemaker Pro's 
50 database limit for years - server would allow you 125 databases for 
about $1000.  For those of you with no experience with Filemaker, a 
database is a table.  Each file only has one table and all 
layouts/reports/forms and scripts are in the same file.  This setup has 
pros and cons that are irrelevant now.

I am trying to migrate to linux and postgresql.  I love the MacOS but 
they just upgraded to 10.4 (tiger) and made 3 of my iMacs obsolete 
because they do not have on-board firewire so are not supported by 
10.4.  Funny how Linux can be compiled to run on a 386 intel chip from a 
floppy drive but MacOS cannot now run without firewire on a 4 year old 
computer.

Filemaker.com created Filemaker Pro 7 which adds great features and 
removes the 50 table limit - with a $1000 price tag for 3 units and a 
5-simultaneous-user limit.  The upgrade to 7 may require extensive 
changes to my solutions.  Now would be a natural time to change to a new 
system since I have to relearn/change everything anyway.  Additionally, 
I can only assume that I will be in for more of the same treatment as I 
and people like me get our data more entrenched in their proprietary 
business models.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: [GENERAL] Postgres vs Firebird?

[Ned Lilly]

An observation:  the one recent study that pumped up Firebird seemed to come 
out of nowhere, and its findings have yet to be corroborated elsewhere.  While 
as others have noted, Firebird is a fine product (and has a longer history on 
the Windows platform), I think a little skepticism as to its market penetration 
and community size is warranted.  Could be that the study was oversampling 
legacy Interbase users, for example.
Benjamin Smith wrote:
As a long-time user of Postgres, (First started using it at 7.0) I'm reading 
recently that Firebird has been taking off as a database. 

Perhaps this is not the best place to ask this, but is there any compelling 
advantage to using Firebird over Postgres? We have a large database (almost 
100 tables of highly normalized data) heavily loaded with foreign keys and 
other constraints, and our application makes heavy use of transactions. 

I say this as my company's growth has been exponential, showing no sign of 
letting up soon, and I'm reviewing clustering and replication technologies so 
that we can continue to scale as nicely as we have to date with our single 
server. (now with a load avg around .30 typically) 

-Ben 
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[GENERAL] OpenRPT (was Re: [ANNOUNCE] == PostgreSQL Weekly News - April 24 2005 ==)

[Ned Lilly]

David Fetter wrote:
== PostgreSQL Product News ==
OpenRPT is a graphical SQL report writer, designer and rendering
engine, optimized for PostgreSQL. WYSIWYG display, GUI built with Qt,
runs on Linux, Windows, Mac OS X. Server-side rendering engine.
Reports can be saved as XML, either as files or in a database.
http://pgfoundry.org/projects/openrpt/
Dave, thanks for the plug - and thanks to everyone who's expressed an 
interest in OpenRPT so far.  It seems there are still some performance issues 
with pgFoundry  (pending setup of new servers?) - so for now, we're going to do 
our best not to contribute to the load, and point people to OpenRPT's home on 
SourceForge, where the iron is big and the pipes fat:
http://openrpt.sf.net/
We're very interested in engaging with the PostgreSQL community to help make 
OpenRPT better.  For those who aren't familiar with us, the OpenRPT project has 
spun out of an ERP application called OpenMFG.  I'm the CEO of OpenMFG LLC, the 
company; I was previously one of the founders of Great Bridge, a 
first-generation Postgres company that was a casualty of the dot-com boom/bust 
cycle four years ago.  I formed OpenMFG to bring a Postgres-based ERP system to 
market (www.openmfg.com) ... and along the way, part of what we built with our 
ERP was a multiplatform report writer.
The OpenMFG ERP Suite is inexpensive but not free; source code provided and patches accepted, but not 
OSI-certified "open source."  We decided that the report writer level of the "stack" was 
different, however, and decided to release OpenRPT under the GPL for anyone and everyone who wants to abide 
by the terms of the GPL.  For those who would like to "opt out" of the GPL, we also offer a 
commercial license.  For more on the licensing, as well as downloads, CVS, screenshots, docs, project info, 
etc., please check out the project homepage at http://openrpt.sf.net.
Thanks very much,
Ned
--
Ned Lilly
President and CEO
OpenMFG, LLC
420 North Center Drive
Building 11, Suite 115
Norfolk, VA 23502
tel: 757-461-3022
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.openmfg.com
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[GENERAL] PostgreSQL at LinuxWorld Boston

[Ned Lilly]

[bcc to -hackers, -general]
Folks,
I'm happy to announce that PostgreSQL will have a home at LinuxWorld in two weeks after 
all.  My company, OpenMFG, is teaming up with SRA America to wave the elephant flag at 
booth #1411 - right next door to the ".org Pavillion", two booths up from the 
Intel spread.
OpenMFG is a powerful and feature-rich ERP system that's written with 
PostgreSQL on the server, and Qt on the client (binaries available for Linux, 
Windows, and Mac OS X).  The business logic is all in pl/pgsql, and performance 
is fantastic and very scalable.  We'll be handing out CDs with free demo 
versions of our ERP package, as well as PostgreSQL 8.0 source and binaries.  
The CD will also contain a beta version of our OpenRPT report writer and 
rendering engine, which we'll be releasing under an open source license at the 
end of the beta cycle.
SRA America is the US arm of the established Japan-based systems integrator 
Software Research Associates.  As most of you know, SRA has been an active 
supporter of the PostgreSQL project for many years, and they currently employ 
several active contributors to the project, including core developer Bruce 
Momjian.  They provide a variety of PostgreSQL services, including consulting, 
migration, support, and training.
So the general idea is that you get:
a) a software product vendor who's built their entire product and business 
around PostgreSQL, and
b) an international services firm who is leading the charge of PostgreSQL 
consulting and support in the enterprise.
If you're going to be in Boston from Feb. 15 to 17, please stop by and say hi.  

Regards,
Ned Lilly
--
Ned Lilly
President and CEO
OpenMFG, LLC
420 North Center Drive
Building 11, Suite 115
Norfolk, VA 23502
tel: 757-461-3022
mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.openmfg.com
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[GENERAL] nice work on the new site

[Ned Lilly]

To everyone who put in what's clearly a lot of time in building the new 
website, well done!  I think the combination of the 8.0 release and a 
dramatically more professional website will do wonders for PostgreSQL.
Kudos!
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Re: [GENERAL] Report Generation

[Ned Lilly]

My company has a GUI report writer and renderer that we will be releasing under 
an open source license shortly.  You can see some intro material at 
www.openmfg.com/solutions/openreports.php.  Please contact me off-list at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if you'd be interested in beta testing.
Regards,
Ned Lilly
Randy Yates wrote:
At the risk of asking an ill-formed oft-asked question that's
probably in the FAQ, is there any report generation tools that
are particularly suited for use with postgres databases?
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Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread

[Ned Lilly]

I think most people would agree that a large part of MySQL's audience has come from 
the bundling of MySQL libraries with PHP.  Getting PostgreSQL to fill this void would 
be a very positive development.

If concerns about licensing are a major driver here, I would think that PostgreSQL's 
simple Berkeley license would compare very favorably to the tangled web of Interbase 
history of corporate intrigue and community forking.




- Original Message - 
From: "Bruce Momjian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Josh Berkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Joe Conway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Advocacy (PostgreSQL)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"PostgreSQL-general" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread


> Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Joe,
> > 
> > > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > >http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
> > >
> > > I particularly liked this post:
> > > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
> > 
> > Boy, Monty's making friends all over, ain't he?
> 
> [ CC to general.]
> 
> [ MySQL changes client library to GPL.]
> 
> This is _very_ interesting, and not surprising.  MySQL got users to
> adopt MySQL, then they change the client license to get users to
> purchase commercial, non-GPL licenses.
> 
> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> PostgreSQL.
> 
> Notice the second URL mentions Interbase before PostgreSQL, which I find
> curious.
> 
> -- 
>   Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 359-1001
>   +  If your life is a hard drive, |  13 Roberts Road
>   +  Christ can be your backup.|  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
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> 
> 


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Re: [GENERAL] Benchmarking PostgreSQL

[Ned Lilly]

Justin Clift wrote:

> As an aside, did anyone ever step up to create a TPC-C benchmark suite for
> PostgreSQL?

Part of the Great Bridge QA process (on every beta, every community major and
minor release, and certainly any release we distribute on CD) is the running of
the TPC tests and the AS3AP, as implemented by Quest Software's Benchmark Factory
(free trial available at http://www.quest.com/benchmark_factory/).  These were
the tests we originally ran last year as part of our due diligence in evaluating
Postgres before forming the company - it's now part of our regular process.

Don't know of any other widely-available implementations besides Quest's, but
some engineers in the Alpha group at Compaq had done some work on an open source
implementation of the AS3AP ... don't have the URL handy, but you ought to be
able to find it in the archives.

Regards,
Ned

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[GENERAL] hang on (was: New Book: PostgreSQL: The Elephant Never Forgets)

[Ned Lilly]

This is news to me, and does not represent any action taken by Great 
Bridge.  We'll be talking with Joshua Drake directly, then report back 
to the list.



Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Joshua Drake wrote:
> 
>> Open Docs Publishing has announced today that they plan to release their
>> sixth book entitled "Learning PostgreSQL: The Elephant Never Forgets" by
>> the first week of June. This title will include PostgreSQL Great Bridge
>> version 7.1 (The Linux World Editors winner for Best Database in 2000).
> 
> 
> WTFI "PostgreSQL Great Bridge version 7.1" ?   Is GB putting out
> their own releases now?   Ned?  Bruce?
> 
> Vince.


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Re: [GENERAL] IDE or RAD tools

[Ned Lilly]

Hi Michelle,

Check out phpPgAdmin - see http://www.greatbridge.org/project/phppgadmin/

Regards,
Ned


Michelle Murrain wrote:

> On Sunday 18 March 2001 07:50 pm, Doug McNaught wrote:
> 
>>>> Can anyone recommend any Iintegrated Development Environment or Rapid
>>>> Application Development tools for hooking upto a PostgrSQL database?
>>>> 
>>>> In particular, I am looking for something that develops for Linux,
>>>> because that is what my server is, and I want the users to work thin
>>>> client.
>>> 
>> [snippage]
>> 
>>> Generally speaking, if you put a good programmer in front of a RAD or
>>> IDE, he or she becomes less productive - just one more thing to
>>> learn. Programmers type, they don't point and click =)
>> 
>> Preach on brother!
> 
> 
> This is a tangent question - I've been thinking alot about a development 
> project to allow mere mortals easily set up web-based databases in pgsql, 
> using a web-based tool. Does anyone know about projects that would basically 
> provide the functionality of pg_access but in a web-based context? 
> 
> If not, it's next on my list of things to tackle.
> 
> Michelle
> 
> Michelle Murrain, Ph.D.
> President
> Norwottuck Technology Resources
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.norwottuck.com
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [GENERAL] SQL article

[Ned Lilly]

Correct.  Check the date on the article Bruce mentioned.  The author 
told me he had written a bunch of them and had them in the can for O'Reilly.

His article on functions (don't have the URL handy) really set me off, 
since I think we shine there compared to the other guys.  But he's very 
interested in learning more about PostgreSQL, and I think we'll see more 
from him before too long.



Bruce Momjian wrote:

> I think someone (Ned Lilly?) talked to him about it and he is going to
> start mentioning PostgreSQL more.
> 
> 
>> Kind of annoying that under "Related:" there aren't any PostgreSQL links though.
>> 
>> Mike Mascari
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From:Bruce Momjian [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent:Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:36 PM
>> To:  PostgreSQL-documentation
>> Cc:  PostgreSQL-general
>> Subject: [GENERAL] SQL article
>> 
>> This was an interesting introduction to SQL:
>> 
>>  http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/10/20/aboutSQL_1.html
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
>>   +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
>>   +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>> 
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>> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>> 
>> 

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Re: [GENERAL] Can PostgreSQL be a mail backend?

[Ned Lilly]

We're looking at porting GNU Mailman to use Postgres as a backend, 
breaking off the mail handling functionality into free-standing Python 
scripts, and allowing for a separate presentation layer as well... looks 
promising so far.  We'll be doing the development on our greatbridge.org 
website - I know Chris (cc'ed) would love to have some help.  Some 
people in the Mailman community have expressed interest as well...




Morten W. Petersen wrote:

> Hi people,
> 
> I'm wondering if postgres could be capable of acting as a
> mail storage.  This would imply storing messages, from
> 1KB to > 100MB in size.  The expected volume is 4000
> messages a day, and the database may store up to,
> lets say, 50 messages.
> 
> Could postgres cope with this?  (How is the support for
> big data fields now BTW?)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Morten
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [GENERAL] GUI Clients for PostgreSQL

[Ned Lilly]

Two other widely used GUI interfaces are hosted at GreatBridge.org:

PgAdmin is a Windows-based GUI:

   http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/projdisplay.php

phpPgAdmin is a cross-platform Web-based GUI:

   http://www.greatbridge.org/project/phppgadmin/projdisplay.php

They're both excellent tools with comparable functionality, and 
depending on your environment, one might be more appropriate than the 
other for you.

Regards,
Ned Lilly

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> The best one I like is pgaccess, but it does not support Copy/Paste.
> Hopefully it will later on!
> Check out: http://flex.flex.ro/pgaccess/
> 
> 
> 
> Art Taylor wrote in message
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> 
>> Can anyone tell me what open source GUI clients are available for
> 
> PostgreSQL
> 
>> and where they can be downloaded.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>>   -- Art Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
>> a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 

Re: [GENERAL] LinuxWorld NYC

[Ned Lilly]

That's right.  Half-day tutorials actually start today, but the 
conference and exhibits start Wednesday.

Regards,
Ned


os390 ibmos wrote:

> Just a quick non-postgress digression about the Linux 
> expo exhibition/show dates, as per my info it's wednesday thru friday 
> (10A-6P) ?
> 
> Don't want to get there all the way from Philly and not get to see the 
> exhibition.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ===
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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Re: [GENERAL] MySQL file system

[Ned Lilly]

more on slashdot:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/16/1855253&mode=nested


Alex Pilosov wrote:

> Hehe, very amusing. (albeit vaporware for now)
> 
> I guess they want to it with KOrbit, and some software translating
> cobra->mysql (mysql doesn't have corba bindings yet, to my knowledge).
> 
> The same should be possible with postgres, and it actually DOES have corba
> bindings (albeit they are broken AFAIK :)
> 
> -alex
> 
> I'm sure something like this would be possible
>  
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Ned Lilly wrote:
> 
>> Anyone heard about this?
>> 
>> http://no.spam.ee/~tonu/mysqlfs.html
>> 
>> 

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[GENERAL] MySQL file system

[Ned Lilly]

Anyone heard about this?

http://no.spam.ee/~tonu/mysqlfs.html

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Re: [GENERAL] Modeling tool / ODBC

[Ned Lilly]

Hi Nelio,

We've had good success using the current ODBC driver with ERWin (see our 
Users Guide at www.greatbridge.com/docs) .  What kind of problems are 
you having?

Regards,
Ned


Nelio Alves Pereira Filho wrote:

> Hi there.
> 
> Has anyone ever developed a big system with postgres, so that a modeling
> tool to create and maintain the base was needed?? If so, what did you
> use??
> 
> I searched a lot for some tool like that, but I couldn't get nothing
> apropriated. Right now I'm using ERWin via ODBC, using the driver
> provided at ftp.postgresql.org. 
> 
> Does anyone use frequently this driver? Is its development stopped? I'm
> having some problems with it, what caused someone to suggest to use
> M$SQL !!
> 
> Thanks for helping.
> 

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[GENERAL] Great Bridge PostgreSQL products and services

[Ned Lilly]

Hello all,

Great Bridge formally announced its first product and service offerings 
today.  Here are the highlights:

* QA-tested distribution of PostgreSQL 7.0.3 for Linux (free, source 
  and binaries available at http://www.greatbridge.com/download)
* Automated graphical installer (free, source and binaries available 
  at http://www.greatbridge.org/project/gbinstaller/)
* 500+ pages of documentation (free, available at 
  http://www.greatbridge.com/docs)
* professional support offerings ranging all the way up to 24 
  hours/7 days
* consulting services ranging from planning and design to porting 
  and implementation
  
I'd be happy to answer any questions on- or off-list.  Or of course you 
can talk to John Rickman, our VP Sales, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Here's a link to the announcement:

http://www.greatbridge.com/about/press.php?content_id=23
Regards,
Ned

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[GENERAL] Re: [HACKERS] (download ANSI SQL benchmark?) Re: Postgres article

[Ned Lilly]

(bcc to -hackers)

The Benchmark Factory software, recently acquired by Quest Software,
can be downloaded for a 30-day trial (limited # of users) at:

http://www.benchmarkfactory.com/emaildatabase/FormBenchmarkFactoryTrial.asp?product=BenchmarkFactory

(note long URL above might have wrapped)

That's the package we used - also the one that eWeek (formerly
PCWeek) and other trade magazines use.  See
http://www.greatbridge.com/about/press.php?content_id=4 for more
info on how we conducted the test.

Regards,
Ned

Limin Liu wrote:

> This's great.  I have tested Postgres and MySQL with the benchmark
> shipped with mysql and (of course) MySQL out perform Postgres.
>
> I wonder does anyone know where can we download the ANSI SQL
> benchmark (AN3AP) suite?  I'd like to run this benchmark test
> myself, since this is the only benchmark I have read so far that
> Postgres out perform MySQL.
>
> Thanx in advance.
>
> >
> > Did someone read bout this?
> >
> > http://www.angelfire.com/nv/aldev/pgsql/GreatBridge.html
> >
>
>
> --
> Limin Liu
>
>

[GENERAL] GT.M database open sourced

[Ned Lilly]

Is anybody familiar with this?

http://news.excite.com:80/news/bw/001107/pa-sanchez

Re: [GENERAL] announce list?

[Ned Lilly]

The Hermit Hacker wrote:

>> Also, as an FYI, I'm getting 404s trying to browse the archives of that 
>> list at any recent link off of 
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mhonarc/pgsql-announce/
> 
> Okay, just loaded up that link here and it came up quick, so not sure why
> the 404 errors ... are you sure you aren't hitting a mirror?  then again,
> if you are going to an explicit URL, ou shouldn't hit a mirror ...

the 404 is on the linked-off pages, not the page itself.  Try any of the September or 
October links...



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[GENERAL] Oracle9i—Is it more fluff than stuff?

[Ned Lilly]

That's the title of an interesting article on 9i in eWeek magazine.

Quote:  "After the smoke clears and the mirrors are taken away,
Oracle9i might just be a marketing ploy based on a single, untested
technology."

http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2639156,00.html


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[GENERAL] object features in Oracle 8/9

[Ned Lilly]

All,

Came across a Gartner/Tech Republic research piece on object support
in Oracle 8:

http://www.techrepublic.com/download_item.jhtml?id=dr00220001002jim01.htm

You need to register for the site, but it's free.  I'd be happy to
email the PDF to anyone individually as well.

Anyone know what's new in the new 9i?

Regards,
Ned


--------
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Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge re-runs benchmark with MySQL "tuned"

[Ned Lilly]

See http://www.greatbridge.com/news/p_081620001.html - we increased the
cache, ran a vacuum analyze, a few minor things.

Regards,
Ned

"Poul L. Christiansen" wrote:

> It would be interesting to see how well PostgreSQL performed when it was
> tuned.
>
> Or has it allready been tuned?
>
> Ned Lilly wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > We posted the following announcement on our website today, at
> > http://www.greatbridge.com/news/press.html.
> >
> > Please feel free to email me off-list with any questions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ned
> >
> > UPDATE, August 22, 2000:
> >
> > MySQL performance improves with tuning suggestions from development
> > team;
> > PostgreSQL still leads all contenders under heavy usage
> >
> > Following our recent release of AS3AP and TPC-C benchmark test
> > results, Great Bridge offered to re-run the tests with tuning and
> > custom configuration settings suggested by the MySQL development
> > team. We did, and we want to share the results.
> >
> > It's important to note that the MySQL configuration originally
> > tested was the default MySQL installation, using the standard
> > MyODBC.dll Windows driver installed by MySQL (for the benchmark
> > software client machine, which ran Windows NT). Probably the most
> > significant change came from substituting a faster driver, called
> > MyODBC2.dll; according to the MySQL development team, the default
> > driver is used for debugging purposes, and is known to be slower in
> > production environments.
> >
> > At their suggestion, we also implemented the following tuning
> > settings:
> >
> > * key_buffer=64m
> > * table_cache=256
> > * sort_buffer=1m
> > * record_buffer=1m
> >
> > So what were the results? MySQL did significantly better across the
> > board, averaging 69% more transactions per second in this tuned
> > environment, and exceeding Postgres' raw performance until the
> > seventh concurrent user. Its performance peaked at 1,321 tps (at 3
> > users), but still started to fall off about the same point as in the
> > previous test (4 users). See graphic
> > (http://www.greatbridge.com/img/as3ap_new.gif).
> >
> > What does this mean? Our interpretation is that, properly
> > configured, MySQL is indeed a faster performer in raw read-only
> > databases with 6 or fewer users. We should note that these tests
> > results do not represent the full suite of AS3AP tests - only the
> > multiuser ir_select (information retrieval) test. Other tests in the
> > AS3AP suite require views, which MySQL does not currently support.
> > We should also note that the TPC-C test, which simulates a more
> > robust OLTP environment, still would not run under the tuned MySQL
> > configuration, primarily due to SQL compliance issues (see Richard
> > Brosnahan's analysis elsewhere in the main story). But overall,
> > MySQL acquitted itself well when expertly tuned for the AS3AP
> > ir_select test.

[GENERAL] Great Bridge re-runs benchmark with MySQL "tuned"

[Ned Lilly]

Folks,

We posted the following announcement on our website today, at
http://www.greatbridge.com/news/press.html.

Please feel free to email me off-list with any questions.

Thanks,
Ned



UPDATE, August 22, 2000:

MySQL performance improves with tuning suggestions from development
team;
PostgreSQL still leads all contenders under heavy usage

Following our recent release of AS3AP and TPC-C benchmark test
results, Great Bridge offered to re-run the tests with tuning and
custom configuration settings suggested by the MySQL development
team. We did, and we want to share the results.

It's important to note that the MySQL configuration originally
tested was the default MySQL installation, using the standard
MyODBC.dll Windows driver installed by MySQL (for the benchmark
software client machine, which ran Windows NT). Probably the most
significant change came from substituting a faster driver, called
MyODBC2.dll; according to the MySQL development team, the default
driver is used for debugging purposes, and is known to be slower in
production environments.

At their suggestion, we also implemented the following tuning
settings:

* key_buffer=64m
* table_cache=256
* sort_buffer=1m
* record_buffer=1m

So what were the results? MySQL did significantly better across the
board, averaging 69% more transactions per second in this tuned
environment, and exceeding Postgres' raw performance until the
seventh concurrent user. Its performance peaked at 1,321 tps (at 3
users), but still started to fall off about the same point as in the
previous test (4 users). See graphic
(http://www.greatbridge.com/img/as3ap_new.gif).

What does this mean? Our interpretation is that, properly
configured, MySQL is indeed a faster performer in raw read-only
databases with 6 or fewer users. We should note that these tests
results do not represent the full suite of AS3AP tests - only the
multiuser ir_select (information retrieval) test. Other tests in the
AS3AP suite require views, which MySQL does not currently support.
We should also note that the TPC-C test, which simulates a more
robust OLTP environment, still would not run under the tuned MySQL
configuration, primarily due to SQL compliance issues (see Richard
Brosnahan's analysis elsewhere in the main story). But overall,
MySQL acquitted itself well when expertly tuned for the AS3AP
ir_select test.

Re: [GENERAL] AS3AP Implementation for PostgreSQL/Linux ?

[Ned Lilly]

Correct... in fact, I think the demo runs all the tests.  But its only good for a
handful of users (you buy clumps of concurrent users to test), so you wouldn't be
able to duplicate the entire test.  You'd probably see the same trendlines,
though.

http://www.Quest.com/download.asp?body=/emaildatabase/FormNT.asp?product=BenchmarkFactory



Tom Lane wrote:

> "Keith, Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >   Is anyone aware of a downloadable PostgreSQL/Linux implementation of
> > the AS3AP database benchmark? I've
> > searched the web but was not successful. I'd like to run AS3AP but I'm not
> > interested in having to buy a tool (e.g., Benchmark Factory) for a different
> > OS.
>
> IIRC, there is a free demo of Benchmark Factory that runs one or the
> other of the two benchmarks Great Bridge used.  I forget if it's AS3AP
> or TPC, though --- and in any case you need an NT machine to run BF
> itself on (ick).  Poke around at http://www.benchmarkfactory.com/.
>
> regards, tom lane

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Er... let me put it this way.  Proprietary 2 prefers to run on Windows NT.


Chris Bitmead wrote:

> That's very helpful. Can you also tell us if Proprietry 1 or Proprietry
> 2 was definitely NOT MS-SQL Server?

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

"Ross J. Reedstrom" wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 12:21:25PM -0400, Ned Lilly wrote:
> > Oh, Dan, I'm not that clever... ;-)
> >
> > But I *can* tell you that the market leading proprietary RDBMS products we
> > tested were not IBM, Informix, or Sybase.
> >
>
> And in reply to the MySQL version comment/question, Ned said:
>  "We only used the released versions of each database."
>
> I took that to mean they used the latest released version of each
> database.  One thing I couldn't deduce: which operating system where the
> commercial RDBMs run on top of? NT for one of them, for sure, but the
> other can probably run on either of the quoted OSs. If it was run on NT,
> we might be seeing the linux vs. NT effect.

One of them ran on NT, the other four ran on Red Hat Linux 6.1.

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Doh!  Sorry, I didn't cc Richard Brosnahan after all.  He's at
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Ned Lilly wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> > i haven't played with interbase yet, but my understanding is they have
> > two types of server -- the "classic" (process per connection?) and a
> > "superserver" (multithreaded).  i'm guessing the multithreaded is faster
> > (why bother with the added complexity if it isn't?)  so which version
> > did you run this test against?
>
> Classic.  Superserver didn't work with the ODBC driver.  Richard Brosnahan,
> the lead engineer on the project at Xperts, could connect, but could not
> successfully build tables and load them due to SQL errors.  Feel free to
> contact him directly (he's cc'ed here).

Re: [GENERAL] Re: Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Mark Kirkwood wrote:

> In a related vein, is it possible that any relevant database parameter settings 
>might be
> published to help folk get the best out of their Postgresql systems ? ( apologies if 
>they are
> there and I missed them )

Hi Mark, here's some more info from the lead engineer on the project for Xperts, 
Richard Brosnahan
(cc'ed here).  Please feel free to contact him directly.

--

With PostgreSQL, we increased the size of the cache, and increased the
number of simultaneous users. We did this by starting the database with a
command that included parameters for this purpose. Out of the box,
PostgreSQL is very conservative with resource use, and thus only allows 32
simultaneous connections. Increasing the number of simultaneous users
requires an increase in cache size. This boost in cache size also boosts
performace by a small margin.

We also executed a process called "vacuum analyze" after loading the tables,
but before the test. This process optimizes indexes and frees up disk space
a bit. The optimized indexes boost performance by some margin.

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Hi Adrian,

We only used the released versions of each database.  We'd be happy to run
the tests again when MySQL 3.23 is official, or when Interbase ships a
real ODBC driver for 6.0 for that matter.

Regards,
Ned

Adrian Phillips wrote:

> It would have been more interesting if MySQL 3.23 had been tested as
> this has reached what seems to be a fairly stable beta and seems to
> perform some operations significantly faster than 3.22 and I believe
> may scale somewhat better as well. Of course it may not be so
> interesting for most PostgreSQL users :-)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Adrian Phillips
>
> --
> Your mouse has moved.
> Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect.
> Reboot now?  [OK]

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Oh, Dan, I'm not that clever... ;-)

But I *can* tell you that the market leading proprietary RDBMS products we
tested were not IBM, Informix, or Sybase.

Regards,
Ned


Dan Browning wrote:

> > Can you tell us what version of the (ahem) unnamed
> > proprietary products
> > you used? :-). For example if you used version 8i of an unnamed
> > proprietry product, that might be informative :-).
>
> Oh, but even if you can't tell us what version was used, I'm sure you could
> tell us that story about the monster you saw last week.  But which monster
> was it?  Was it the monster that ATE EYEs?  And I remember you once said
> there was a second monster, could you describe it as well?

Re: [GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Marc's right... we opted for ODBC to ensure as much of an "apples to apples"
comparison as possible.  Of the 5 databases we tested, a native driver existed for
only the two (ahem) unnamed proprietary products - Postgres, Interbase, and MySQL
had to rely on ODBC.  So we used the vendor's own ODBC for each of the other two
cases.


As with all benchmarks, your mileage will vary according to hardware, OS, and of
course the specific application.  What we attempted to do here was use two
industry-standard benchmarks and treat all five products the same.


Presumably, if the vendor had taken the time to write a native driver for
Postgres, the results would have seen an even bigger kick.  We don't have any
reason to think that the results for all five tests in native driver mode would be
out of proportion to the results we got through ODBC.

Regards,
Ned


The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Steve Wolfe wrote:
>
> > > 1) Using only ODBC drivers.  I don't know how much of an impact a driver
> > can
> > > make but it would seem that using native drivers would shutdown one source
> > > of objections.
> >
> >   Using ODBC is guaranteed to slow down the benchmark.  I've seen native
> > database drivers beat ODBC by anywhere from a factor of two to an order of
> > magnitude.
>
> I haven't had a chance to take a look at the benchmarks yet, having just
> seen this, but *if* Great Bridge performed their benchmarks such that all
> the databases were access via ODBC, then they are using an
> 'apples-to-apples' approach, as each will have similar slowdowns as a
> result ...

[GENERAL] Great Bridge benchmark results for Postgres, 4 others

[Ned Lilly]

Greetings all,

At long last, here are the results of the benchmarking tests that
Great Bridge conducted in its initial exploration of PostgreSQL.  We
held it up so we could test the shipping release of the new
Interbase 6.0.  This is a news release that went out today.

The release is also on our website at
http://www.greatbridge.com/news/p_081420001.html.  Graphics of the
AS3AP and TPC-C test results are at
http:/www.greatbridge.com/img/as3ap.gif and
http://www.greatbridge.com/img/tpc-c.gif respectively.

I'll try and field any questions anyone has, or refer you to someone
who can.

Best regards,

Ned Lilly
VP Hacker Relations
Great Bridge, LLC

--

Open source database routs competition in new benchmark tests

PostgreSQL meets or exceeds speed and scalability of proprietary
database leaders, and significantly surpasses open source
competitors


NORFOLK, Va, August 14, 2000 -PostgreSQL, the world's most advanced
open source database, routed the competition in recent benchmark
testing, topping the proprietary database leaders in
industry-standard transaction-processing tests. PostgreSQL, also
known as "Postgres," is an object-relational database management
system (DBMS) that newly formed Great Bridge LLC will professionally
market, service and support. Postgres also consistently outperformed
open source competitors, including MySQL and Interbase, in the
benchmark tests. Great Bridge will market Postgres-based open source
solutions as a highly reliable and lower cost option for businesses
seeking an alternative to proprietary databases.

On the ANSI SQL Standard Scalable And Portable (AS3AP) benchmark, a
rudimentary information retrieval test that measures raw speed and
scalability, Postgres performed an average of four to five times
faster than every other database tested, including two major
proprietary DBMS packages, the MySQL open source database, and
Interbase, a formerly proprietary product which was recently made
open source by Inprise/Borland. (See Exhibit 1)

In the Transaction Processing Council's TPC-C test, which simulates
a real-world online transaction processing (OLTP) environment,
Postgres consistently matched the performance of the two leading
proprietary database applications. (See Exhibit 2)  The two industry
leaders cannot be mentioned by name because their restrictive
licensing agreements prohibit anyone who buys their closed-source
products from publishing their company names in benchmark testing
results without the companies' prior approval.

"The test results show that Postgres is a robust, well-built product
that must be considered in the same category as enterprise-level
competition," said Robert Gilbert, Great Bridge President and CEO.
"Look at the trendlines in the AS3AP test:  Postgres, like the
proprietary leaders, kept a relatively consistent output level all
the way up to 100 concurrent users - and that output was four to
five times faster than the proprietary products.  Interbase and
MySQL fell apart under heavy usage.  That's a strong affirmation
that Postgres today is a viable alternative to the market-leading
proprietary databases in terms of performance and scalability-and
the clear leader among open source databases."

The tests were conducted by Xperts Inc. of Richmond, Virginia, an
independent technology solutions company, using Quest Software's
Benchmark Factory application.  Both the AS3AP and the TPC-C
benchmarks simulated transactions by one to 100 simultaneous users
in a client-server environment. One hundred concurrent users
approximates the middle range of a traditional database user pool;
many applications never see more than a few users on the system at
any given time, while other more sophisticated enterprise platforms
number concurrent users in the thousands.  In a Web-based
application, where the connection to the database is measured in
milliseconds, 100 simultaneous users would represent a substantial
load-the equivalent of 100 customers hitting the "submit" button on
an order form at exactly the same time.

The AS3AP test measures raw database data retrieval power, showing
an application's scalability, portability and ease of use and
interpretation through the use of simple ANSI standard SQL queries.
The TPC-C test simulates a warehouse distribution system, including
order creation, customer payments, order status checking, delivery,
and inventory management.

"What stood out for us was the consistent performance of Postgres,
which stayed the same or tested better than those of the leading
proprietary applications. Postgres performed consistently whether it
was being used by one or 100 people," said Richard Brosnahan, senior
software developer at Xperts.

Postgres is a standards-based object-relational SQL database
designed for e-business and enterprise applications. The software is
open source and freely owned, continuously augmented by a global
collaborative

Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] Revised Copyright: is this morepalatable?

[Ned Lilly]

Ron, probably the best example to reassure you here is Illustra/Informix,
which is based on the old Berkeley Postgres code.  A group of people at
Berkeley "forked" the Postgres code into the closed Illustra system, but it
survived as Postgres95, then later PostgreSQL when Marc and Bruce got
started.

As a number of people have said, if someone (like Great Bridge or anyone
else) ever took the then-current PostgreSQL code proprietary, it would still
remain as an open source project - and believe me, there are plenty of
people who would rather work on it as an open source project than a
proprietary death-spiral.

We think the proprietary software development model for large scale projects
(operating systems, databases, wide-ranging applications) is stupid and
dead.  We don't think open source is going away - in fact, we think it's the
way most software is going to be developed in the future.  There will
certainly be companies that try and fork off open source projects and make a
quick buck; they will fail.

As I understand your concern, you don't want to make a learning investment
in something you think is open source, only to have it go closed?  I think I
can safely say that PostgreSQL as an open source project will never go away
- the momentum is too strong, the product is too good, the developers are
too committed, for that to happen.

Best,
Ned



Ron Peterson wrote:

> I'm not trying to rankle the developers who have benefited me so much by
> promoting the GPL.  I'm just trying to protect myself as a consumer from
> being left in the cold when the product I've spent so much time learning
> and implementing suddenly goes proprietary.
>
> Sorry to be cynical, but as a consumer, I can't help seeing BSD licenses
> as good old bait and switch.  And this discussion doesn't reassure me
> otherwise.
>
> Sure, the code can fork.  SunOS, AIX, HPUX are good examples.  Examples
> of the kind of code forking and corporatism I thought, I hoped, the
> world was moving away from.
>
> 
> Ron Peterson
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[GENERAL] proposed improvements to PostgreSQL license

[Ned Lilly]

Greetings all,

I'm sending this to -announce, -hackers, and -general; apologies for
the cross-post.  Replies should automatically go to -general, which
is the best forum for this discussion.  But I wanted to make sure
the largest possible audience of PostgreSQL users had a chance to
comment...

Several weeks ago, we announced the formation of a new company
called Great Bridge, which will professionally market and support
open source software solutions based on PostgreSQL.  As we said at
the time, we've been working since late last year to understand the
software itself, the needs of business customers who might be
inclined to use PostgreSQL, and of course the dynamics of the
PostgreSQL development community.  Our team met with the six members
of the PostgreSQL core steering group in March, and had a good and
open exchange about each other's plans for the future.

One issue that has always been a source of uncertainty - I think for
all of us - has been the license under which PostgreSQL is
distributed.  As we've said publicly on Slashdot, ZDNet, and other
forums, we're big fans of the current Berkeley license; we find it
more "open" than other open source licenses, in the sense that the
user/hacker has almost total freedom as to what he wants to do with
the code.  We've also found, through some rather extensive market
research, that the business community (to which we'll be selling
products and services) vastly prefers it over GPL, or hybrids like
Mozilla, etc.  I don't want to re-start that debate here - the
consensus in the PostgreSQL community over the past few years seems
to be that the Berkeley style license is best suited for the
continued development of PostgreSQL.

What we'd like to propose is a general tightening up of what the
existing license is *supposed* to be doing in the first place -
protecting the developers who worked on the code, and ensuring that
the code stays open source in perpetuity.  Rusty Friddell, the
general counsel of Great Bridge's parent company Landmark
Communications, explained our views on this to the core group in
March, and they expressed an interest in our going ahead with some
research on how the license might be improved.  So Great Bridge went
ahead and engaged two outside law firms to work on it, and we now
have something we're ready to present to the community.  We've
included the core group in early looks at some of the thinking, and
we all feel it's now ready for a full-fledged debate in the broader
hacker world.

I'm including below two things - 1) a note from Rusty explaining a
bit more about what we're trying to do, and 2) the proposed text of
the license itself.  I'll monitor the discussion on the -general
list, and if anyone has any specific questions for Rusty, I'll be
happy to channel them to him.

Thanks,

Ned Lilly
VP Hacker Relations
Great Bridge, LLC

-

text of note from Rusty Friddell, general counsel of Landmark
Communications, Inc.:

What follows is a suggested addition to the existing Berkeley
license governing the use of PostgreSQL.  The changes are suggested
mainly to address and deal with the many contributions by the hacker
community to the work of the original licensor, the University of
California.  Unlike other open source licenses (GNU, Mozilla,
Interbase), the original Berkeley license does not take into account
that over time a lot of different individual developers and perhaps
some corporate contributors, would have individual copyrights on
substantial portions of the code.

This deficiency has two adverse affects.  First, the contributing
developers are not afforded the protection of the exculpatory
language in "bold face."  Certainly, having given of their time and
creativity without compensation, the developers should be extended
this coverage as clearly as possible.  Second, and admittedly of
significant importance to Great Bridge, the commercial proliferation
of PostgreSQL could be hindered if business users are concerned that
the license might not cover the substantial additions and
improvements made to the code over the last few years.

In developing the new language, the resources of two intellectual
property law firms, one East Coast and one West Coast, were tapped.
No less important was my education by the core group as to what was
good about the existing license.  As a result of the former, you
will see some minor language clean up.  From the latter, you'll note
a pretty strict adherence to the "short and sweet" approach of the
original Berkeley license, particularly as compared to the
lawyer-friendly (that may be an oxymoron) GPL and Mozilla licenses.

No discussion of this type should be without controversy, so I throw
you the following red meat:  the choice of state law has been
selected to cause the application of the Uniform Computer
Information Transactions Act (UCITA) to the usage of the sof

[GENERAL] FW: Error

[Ned Lilly]

Marc, I'm forwarding your note to the PostgreSQL-GENERAL discussion list.

Regards,
Ned


> -Original Message-
> From: Marc Allard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:51 PM
> Subject:  Error
>
> I am sorry to send you this e-mail, but I don't where to send this e-mail
> so I hope that you will send this e-mail to the correct responsable.
> I have Installed Postgres on Linux (SuSe 6.4)
>
> When I use psql, all is OK
> When I use pgacces, I have the error "EROOR : No pg_hba.conf entry for
> host 192.168.0.99, user marc database db_marc".
> The host is correct, the login too.
> So I installed the ODBC Drivers on my second PC. I have the same error
> when trying to connect the DB
>
> What must I do ?
>
> Thank you

Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC

[Ned Lilly]

Hi Ed,

Hmm... viewed through that prism, whether it's "jaded and cynical" or not, I can
see your concern.

Our chairman, Frank Batten, Jr. understood the power of open source software
development when the Red Hat guys came calling several years ago - few other people
at Landmark did, and so the company passed, and Frank made a personal investment.
Over the past few years, both through his involvement with Red Hat and our own IT
experience in our various operating businesses, we've become big institutional
believers in (and users of) open source as well.  That's what Frank's dad was
referring to.

Who knows if Red Hat will be a successful business in the long haul?  But I'd
submit that they've done a pretty good job at getting Linux and other open source
products in front of more people, and that's a good thing.

Look, the press likes to write about crazy stock market stuff.  They're less
interested in long tuples and query tree redesign.  We (Great Bridge) don't care
about the stock market.  We do care about building a business that will advance the
adoption of open source and PostgreSQL in particular in the business world, by
providing excellent service and support to customers that are willing to pay for
it.  After six months of homework, we came to the conclusion that there is in fact
a business here- and four guys from Landmark corporate believed in the business
enough to jump out of the executive suite to build a startup business.  That's
exactly how The Weather Channel got started 18 years ago.

If you're curious about Landmark, I'd encourage you to check us out
(www.landmarkcom.com).  As I mentioned, the company remains privately held -
including well-known national properties like The Weather Channel, weather.com, and
Trader Publishing (Auto Trader, Boat Trader, etc.)  We've published the newspaper
in my home town, Norfolk, Virginia, for 100 years.  We build businesses to last -
but don't take my word for it, we've got a record to prove it.

Regards,
Ned Lilly


Ed Loehr wrote:

> It is interesting to note the CNet article's comments regarding Landmark
> Frank Batten, Jr.'s Redhat jackpot winnings.  A more palatable and
> consistent response to this one, IMO:  Some saavy Landmark investors see a
> major opportunity to harvest pgsql value on the open market for huge
> near-term profits via IPO/sale ala Redhat, and that all this may well
> result in significant benefits to the OSS postgresql project and certain
> postgresql core developers.  Am I being jaded and cynical?
>
> "Great Bridge, though consisting of only four employees
> today, has grand ambitions, including a planned expansion
> to 120 employees and the ultimate possibility of going
> public, Ritter said."
> - CNet, siting Al Ritter, Great Bridge CEO
> (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1841316.html?tag=st.ne.ron.lthd.ni)
>
> Note the "ultimate possibility."  That's not about Landmark "needing public
> money or short-sighted shareholders and day traders"; it's about an
> opportunity for very large near-term profits.  Absolutely nothing wrong
> with that, but let's call a spade a spade here.  It might be instructive to
> note that Mr. Batten, Jr., has reportedly already personally harvested tens
> of millions of dollars from his Redhat investment and resigned his position
> from Redhat as chairman.
>
> "He was way ahead of us," Ritter said.
> His father, Frank Batten, quipped, "Frank Jr. has a
> red hat, and I have a red face," Ritter recalled. The
> upshot was that Landmark began searching for a new
> open-source software package to capitalize on.
> - (same CNet article)
>
> That's not really what comes to mind when someone says they are "in it for
> the long haul".
>
> Regards,
> Ed Loehr

Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC

[Ned Lilly]

Hello all,

I responded to Ross' post yesterday, but it looks like my reply didn't make it
onto the list.  So I'm re-sending... sorry for the delay:

--

Thanks for your thoughtful post.  Let me refer you (and everyone else) to the
Slashdot discussion going on now... I think/hope it will answer a lot of your
questions.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/05/09/0927203&cid=118

I'll try to respond to a few points individually here too:

> From reading the PR materials available, it sounds like GreatBridge wants
> to Do the Right Thing. I'd like to see a little more up front about what
> being 'active contributing members of the [pgsql] community' means:
>
> Will GB follow the RedHat model, and commit to releasing code to any
> changes they make? (Note that RedHat has no choice in this for the Linux
> kernel) Or will there be a 'GreatBridge' version of pgsql, perhaps with
> extended features? I hope GB realizes that trying to take on the 'big
> boys' with proprietary extensions is unlikely to be a winning strategy.

Heck no.  We have no interest in any kind of proprietary fork.  As far as code
goes, everything we write will go straight back into the open source stew, for
proper review by the Committed.

> However, the big fear is: will GB take pgsql effectively
> private, by hiring away key developers?

Nope, because anyone who works for GB will also be working for the PostgreSQL
project.

> I hope they all maintain this same level of commitment to code
> quality, regardless of where their paycheck comes from. Having followed
> all the existing open source/commerical development projects currently
> under way, I think it's critical that GB not only adopt the open source
> license, but the open development model that has been so successful for
> pgsql to date.

Absolutely.  We have no intention of supplanting the core group in peer review
/ patch approval.  We expect that any PostgreSQL developers we hire will
continue in the role they currently have in the development process - and to
the extent that our other, internal developers create code, their work will
have to be judged in the same meritocracy as everyone else.

> What about if/when they go public? The legal commitment to maximizing
> stockholder value can play havoc with the best of intentions. I can only
> hope the the principals at GB have a real understanding of open source and
> open development, and remember the story of the goose and the golden eggs:
> short term gain could lead to long term loss.

I talk about this a little in the Slashdot thread - but the short answer is
that Landmark Communications, the parent company, has been privately held for
the better part of 100 years, and doesn't need public money or short-sighted
shareholders and day traders.  We're in this for the long haul.  When and if
we do decide to go public, it will only be because we think it's the best
thing for the core mission of the business - which is to support the adoption
of open source software solutions by mainstream business users.  That's the
standard by which we'll judge all such strategic decisions.

> Welcome to GB, their people, and their new commitment to postgresql. We'll
> all be watching you closely, hoping you all can live up to the promise of
> helping make pgsql the success we (as it's users) know it can be.

Thanks!  BTW, we're already users ourselves- a number of our businesses are
already using Postgres, and the level of use in some instances is significant
enough to merit a separate press release (more on that, of course, at the
appropriate time.. ;-)

Best,
Ned Lilly
VP, Hacker Relations