from:"stepharo"


On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 00:57:36 +0100, Tim Mackinnon  wrote:


Hi Guys - how is the best way to report website and text bugs?

As I know the English is not always a first language (and you guys are  
busy writing code anyway) - its up to us native English speakers >to  
chip in where we can.


Thank you for this take :)

I was pleased to get the notice that on OSX Sierra I need to do  
something extra to get Pharo to work, however the text could be slightly  
>corrected eg. (Bolded words changed)


Are you using macOS Sierra?
Due to changes in security policies of macOS, you will need to put the  
VM in the  /Applications folder.

We are working to fix this temporary inconvenience.


Also - the Hello world command line example on the front page doesn’t  
work on a standard Terminal on a Mac (you get an error:


$ ./pharo Pharo.image eval "Stdio stdout << 'Hello,World!'"
-bash: !'": event not found


The culprit is of course the “!” Character so a better example might be:



$ ./pharo Pharo.image eval "Stdio stdout << 'Hello World'"

Hello WorldStdioStream: 'stdout'

Although, in this case, is it expected that the return string is merged  
with some other output text >(e.g. the StdioStream:….?). I think its an  
impressive example, but it just doesn’t quite look right?



Tim




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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 10:46:09 +0100, Aliaksei Syrel   
wrote:


Called by the table view to return the data object associated with the  
specified row and column.

https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableviewdatasource/1533674-tableview



If dataSource does not return view then you are right for the name.
Now in Pharo the name is wrong and may be the design too :)


Cheers,
Alex

On 29 November 2016 at 10:44, Aliaksei Syrel   
wrote:


On 29 November 2016 at 10:39, Esteban Lorenzano   
wrote:

not true.it returns an NSView.


Could you name a method (send a link to a documentation) that is  
implemented by DataSource and returns an NSView?


According to documentation NSView for an item at row/column index is  
created and returned by NSTableView:

https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nstableview/1528831-view

I didn't find any NSView related method in DataSource. Am I looking in  
a wrong place?


Cheers,
Alex






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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 09:58:41 +0100, Aliaksei Syrel   
wrote:


"DataSource" is responsible for providing visual elements that represent  
items in a data set.


who said that.
I could say exactly: DataSource is responsible to cut data so that they  
are delivered by row or columns.





I don't see how word "Store" fits here, because DataSource does not  
store anything.


Store in the sense of serving something.

DataSource is also not the best name since it is not a data source  
itself.


Clearly not

An object that is now called DataSource, basically just knows a single  
function that from mathematical point of view can be defined as >follows:

f: Object -> Morph . You see, it is a mapping, not a souse or store.

Cheers,
Alex

On 29 November 2016 at 09:44, Denis Kudriashov   
wrote:



2016-11-29 9:35 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano :
yes, something like TableCellSource or TableCellProvider is more  
intention revealing.


No, because is not *just* a cell provider.TableDataSource, TableStore,  
TableProvider, yes.


I kind of like “TableStore”.


And if we have TableMorph then this guy should be TableMorphStore IMO.






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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable





No, because is not *just* a cell provider.TableDataSource, TableStore,  
TableProvider, yes.


I kind of like “TableStore”.Also we have other stores in image:  
FileSystem stores… which conceptually do more or less the same… so  
better to unify concepts/>names… what do you think?


TableMorphStore?
Because I was really shocked to see that it returned Morph.





Esteban



Christophe






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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable






- Then I miss an important design point. Why datasource returns  
Morph?
I do not get get why a data source should return UI element. To me it  
violates layers.


no, because that’s its purpose: to provide the table with the cell  
elements (which are by definition Morphs… any kind of >>>morphs).a  
TableDataSource is not a spec, is the provider of cells.





so maybe TableCellSource / TableCellProvider ?


I’m not against changing its name, in general the family of names are  
“DataSource”, “Store”, etc. so I imagine that “Provider” fits (even if I  
>tend to hate names style “Manager”, “Factory”, “Provider”, because  
there are too generic… sometimes is that what you have :P)
But is not just a “cell provider”, it does something more, is a general  
model of the TableMorph: it provides cells, headers and interaction  
>capabilities (like drag&drop)… so it is more like a "table data  
provider”, TableDataSource, TableStore, TableProvider are then better  
>names, IMO…


Please please please.
So I was always confused.




this changes will impact Pharo 7… is very good that we can have a  
discussion like this now, that we have the time to reach a consensus >:)


Esteban



cheers -ben






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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 22:29:08 +0100, Esteban Lorenzano  
 wrote:



Hi,

On 28 Nov 2016, at 21:32, stepharo  wrote:

Hi

- Could we rename FastTable into Table?


not for Pharo 6 but Pharo 7 yes… in fact, I think it should be called  
TableMorph.

(Also we need to refactor a lot, to eliminate the FT prefix, etc.)



- Then I miss an important design point. Why datasource returns Morph?
I do not get get why a data source should return UI element. To me it  
violates layers.


no, because that’s its purpose: to provide the table with the cell  
elements (which are by definition Morphs… any kind of morphs).a  
TableDataSource is not a spec, is the provider of cells.


What a ugly name then...
Why this is not a CellMorphFactory or something like that.




I got inspired for Cocoa NSTableView design (and NSTableViewDataSource),  
and that’s what it does.See for example here:  
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/TableView/PopulatingView->TablesProgrammatically/PopulatingView-TablesProgrammatically.html

This function: >- (NSView *)tableView:(NSTableView *)tableView
  viewForTableColumn:(NSTableColumn *)tableColumn
 row:(NSInteger)row




is the equivalent of our FTDataSource>>cellColumn:row:

Esteban



Stef



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Re: [Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable


Ok so I never understand it that way.
What a bad name.

Stef



On 28 Nov 2016, at 22:25, Henrik Nergaard   
wrote:


The datasource is a wrapper/binding between the real object and the  
view (table/list) and provides the necessary stuff for >>display and  
interaction between them. Returning custom UI elements (cells and rows)  
from the datasource is part of what >>makes it possible to reuse the  
same table/container morph for lists/tables/trees.


this ^ :)

Esteban





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[Pharo-dev] two question about fasttable

2016-11-28 Thread stepharo


Hi

- Could we rename FastTable into Table?

- Then I miss an important design point. Why datasource returns Morph?
I do not get get why a data source should return UI element. To me it  
violates layers.


Stef



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Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Removing most of the windowing code

2016-11-27 Thread stepharo

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 23:16:50 +0100, Ronie Salgado   
wrote:



Hi,

I am fighting Window VM compilation issues (e.g. Cairo with GCC5.x  
under Mingw).
If you have a GCC5 instead of the old 4.6, I am interested in your  
config.
Now I am building in Windows using both, MinGW version 4.9.3, and Visual  
Studio 2015 Community Edition.


I got working pharo,exe -headless Pharo-minimal.image eval "1+1" (the  
-headless parameter is for the image to quit after finishing).
When running a normal Pharo.image, I am getting a FFI related crash  
(with Visual Studio and MinGW), when the image tries to read the APPDATA  
environment variable.


Right now I am using the same main function for both, the Unix and Win32  
VM. This means, that we are close of having the embedded version.



I love that :)



In windows I am build two variants of the VM, pharo.exe (or squeak.exe)  
and pharow.exe (or squeakw.exe). The executable without the w is a  
console program, so it can >use stdin, stdout and stderr. The executable  
with the w is a windows program that does not create a console window on  
startup, but it cannot use stdout, stderr, or stdin. >This is the  
standard workaround for an annoying limitation of Windows itself (Python  
does the same in windows, with the same nomenclature).


Yes this is on the roadmap of esteban but he got killed by vm merge + UFFI



Visual Studio is unstable than MinGW, but it has an excellent debugger.  
With Visual Studio, I am getting some false positives for an assertion  
because they get >miscompiled. For some reason, the  
assert(GIV(remapBufferCount) == 0) gets compiled into the same as  
assert(GIV(remapBufferCount)). Apart from this assertion, these >two  
versions of the VM are crashing in the same place.




Fantastic, except:



- Unified standard CMake building scripts for Unixes. I hate autoconf.  
I want to use them in Windows too.


We have agreed that we will use makefiles and restrict make to  
generating platform config.h files that define platform facilities.  I  
have very good reasons for doing this.  I >>have discussed this at  
length this year.  Please don't make me argue this all over again.

...
[goodness deleted]
I cannot just use makefile, because I am also compiling in Windows using  
Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition, by generating the visual studio  
projects with CMake. I >looked for the older discussions on the mailing  
lists, I could not find, a long discussion on the mailing list, except  
for several short ones.
I have also seen some projects(LLVM, Boost) that have more than one  
build system, an official based on autoconf(or something else), and an  
alternative based on CMake.


As for the config.h, I can also generate it using CMake, and I will  
start doing it now because I think that it is related to the FFI  
crashing issues that I am experimenting on >Windows. Currently I am  
already using CMake for generating the git version string. As long as  
git is in the path and cmake founds it, the header with the version  
string is >generated correctly, even when using the Visual Studio  
projects.


Anyway, I am not using the old CMakeVMMaker that Igor did(and I just  
learned about Ian CMake work by finding in the mailing list). I just  
adapted the plain CMake scripts >that I normally use for building my own  
projects to build the VM.


 Are you on board?  Would you like to discuss this on skype or  
somewhere?
Sure we can discuss it, I am on chile so we are not far apart in time  
zones.


As long as building the VM can be done automatically in Unixes by  
running a short number of commands, that work most of the time, I am OK  
with it.
As for Windows, it has to be possible to use Visual Studio in addition  
to MinGW or Cygwin. Visual Studio is required to be able to build for  
the Universal Windows Platform, >and getting the VM working in a retail  
XBox One ( https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/index  
).


Best regards,
Ronie

2016-11-26 14:09 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda :

Hi Roni,


On Nov 23, 2016, at 11:12 PM, Ronie Salgado  wrote:


Hello,

I am working on removing most of windowing code from the VM, and in  
trying to unify the platform specific code of the VM. In the  
MinimalistHeadless >>>branch of  
https://github.com/ronsaldo/opensmalltalk-vm I made the following  
changes:


Fantastic, except:



- Unified standard CMake building scripts for Unixes. I hate autoconf.  
I want to use them in Windows too.


We have agreed that we will use makefiles and restrict make to  
generating platform config.h files that define platform facilities.  I  
have very good reasons for doing this.  I >>have discussed this at  
length this year.  Please don't make me argue this all over again.  Are  
you on board?  Would you like to discuss this on skype or somewhere?

...
[goodness deleted]

Does it make sense, to always trying to create a display in startup  
time?


Good question.  The answer should be "no" but that only makes

[Pharo-dev] Is extract method still working?


Hi

on this expression when I select

KeyedTree new
at: 1 put: '1-3-1';
at: 2 put: '1-3-2';
yourself

I get an error because the method extracted look like the following.

at: 1 put: '1-3-1';
at: 2 put: '1-3-2';
yourself

testSubtrees
"Test the subtrees method for success and failure modes."

| t1 t2 t3 t4 |
t1 := KeyedTree new
at: 1
put:
(t2 := KeyedTree new
at: 1 put: '1-1';
at: 2 put: '1-2';
at: 3
put:
(t3 := KeyedTree new
at: 1 put: '1-3-1';
at: 2 put: '1-3-2';
yourself);
yourself);
at: 2 put: '2';
at: 3
put:
(t4 := KeyedTree new
at: 1 put: '1-3-1';
at: 2 put: '1-3-2';
yourself);
yourself.

I wonder if something change in the AST.


--

Re: [Pharo-dev] LinkedList>>#containsCycle


Hi doru


Hi Stef,

Would it make sense to put the collection extensions from Moose in the  
Container project?


If you think it make sense. Yes.

For example Ropes could be managed there.
Have a look I have tiny packages.
The idea is to make sure that
	- people can use one abstraction and not be forced to load a complete  
library

- document them with tests and others
	- gather most of collections in one place to make sure that we do not  
lose energy reimplementing them.


I'm packaging the collection from the image that have no users in the  
image for now.

Then I will continue to package
a Tree package (I tried to contact his author but may be he passed away)
SkipList
Quadtrees.

Stef



Cheers,
Doru



On Nov 26, 2016, at 12:11 PM, stepharo  wrote:

Hi Sven

I'm collecting alternative Collection implementations in the project  
Container

I do not remember if I have linkedList but we can add it there.

You may wonder why I'm doing that?
	- I want to be able to have strong collections that are independent  
from the kernel
	- Ideally the kernel of Pharo should be mininmal so it means that I  
would like to

have as few as possible as collections inside the bootstrapped kernel
and that other collections are nicely packaged in Container.

Now I can understand that others do not like what I'm doing but I will  
just continue.

I have Grid, LinkedList, DoubleLinkedList,
I have on my disc
two implementation of Trees
I should harvest BTrees and SkipList.

If people want to help they are welcome, else I will just do it alone.

Stef


Hi,

There exists a very elegant algorithm to detect cycles in linked lists.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection#Tortoise_and_hare

I know that our LinkedList was written with the assumption that there  
are no cycles. However, it seems to me that it would be nice to have a  
test to check for cycles. This could be useful while printing or  
inspecting a LinkedList (and prevent things from blowing up when there  
is a cycle).


Here is the implementation:

LinkedList>>#containsCycle
 | slow fast |
 slow := fast := firstLink.
 [ slow notNil and: [ fast notNil and: [ fast nextLink notNil ] ] ]
   whileTrue: [
 slow := slow nextLink.
 fast := fast nextLink nextLink.
 slow == fast
   ifTrue: [ ^ true ] ].
 ^ false

And one of the tests:

LinkedListTests>>#testCycles
 1 to: 42 do: [ :each |
   list := LinkedList withAll: (1 to: each).
   "Warning: the following statement creates a cylce,
inspecting/viewing list will probably fail"
   list lastLink nextLink: list firstLink.
   self assert: list containsCycle ]

Opinions ?

Sven





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done."






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Re: [Pharo-dev] LinkedList>>#containsCycle


I added to the CT package


Hi,

There exists a very elegant algorithm to detect cycles in linked lists.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection#Tortoise_and_hare

I know that our LinkedList was written with the assumption that there  
are no cycles. However, it seems to me that it would be nice to have a  
test to check for cycles. This could be useful while printing or  
inspecting a LinkedList (and prevent things from blowing up when there  
is a cycle).


Here is the implementation:

LinkedList>>#containsCycle
  | slow fast |
  slow := fast := firstLink.
  [ slow notNil and: [ fast notNil and: [ fast nextLink notNil ] ] ]
whileTrue: [
  slow := slow nextLink.
  fast := fast nextLink nextLink.
  slow == fast
ifTrue: [ ^ true ] ].
  ^ false

And one of the tests:

LinkedListTests>>#testCycles
  1 to: 42 do: [ :each |
list := LinkedList withAll: (1 to: each).
"Warning: the following statement creates a cylce,
 inspecting/viewing list will probably fail"
list lastLink nextLink: list firstLink.
self assert: list containsCycle ]

Opinions ?

Sven





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Re: [Pharo-dev] LinkedList>>#containsCycle


Hi Sven

I'm collecting alternative Collection implementations in the project  
Container

I do not remember if I have linkedList but we can add it there.

You may wonder why I'm doing that?
	- I want to be able to have strong collections that are independent from  
the kernel
	- Ideally the kernel of Pharo should be mininmal so it means that I would  
like to

have as few as possible as collections inside the bootstrapped kernel
and that other collections are nicely packaged in Container.

Now I can understand that others do not like what I'm doing but I will  
just continue.

I have Grid, LinkedList, DoubleLinkedList,
I have on my disc
two implementation of Trees
I should harvest BTrees and SkipList.

If people want to help they are welcome, else I will just do it alone.

Stef


Hi,

There exists a very elegant algorithm to detect cycles in linked lists.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection#Tortoise_and_hare

I know that our LinkedList was written with the assumption that there  
are no cycles. However, it seems to me that it would be nice to have a  
test to check for cycles. This could be useful while printing or  
inspecting a LinkedList (and prevent things from blowing up when there  
is a cycle).


Here is the implementation:

LinkedList>>#containsCycle
  | slow fast |
  slow := fast := firstLink.
  [ slow notNil and: [ fast notNil and: [ fast nextLink notNil ] ] ]
whileTrue: [
  slow := slow nextLink.
  fast := fast nextLink nextLink.
  slow == fast
ifTrue: [ ^ true ] ].
  ^ false

And one of the tests:

LinkedListTests>>#testCycles
  1 to: 42 do: [ :each |
list := LinkedList withAll: (1 to: each).
"Warning: the following statement creates a cylce,
 inspecting/viewing list will probably fail"
list lastLink nextLink: list firstLink.
self assert: list containsCycle ]

Opinions ?

Sven





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[Pharo-dev] test please ignore

2016-11-22 Thread stepharo




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[Pharo-dev] This is a test

2016-11-22 Thread stepharo




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Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving comments cool action

2016-11-20 Thread stepharo


Now we have package comments :) so we should take also advantage of them.

Stupid question, how exactly does one add package comments ? Can it only be 
done in the latest 6 ? Is it somehow compatible with older versions ?

In latest version you press on a package and comment and you can accept 
text.


Is it somehow compatible with older versions ?

I do not know. I did not check its implementation.
I imagine that the package comments is stored in the manifest. So it is 
probably not displayed but not lost if you load your package in Pharo 50.

[Pharo-dev] Improving comments cool action

2016-11-20 Thread stepharo


Hi guys

I would like to see how we could build a concerted action to improve the 
class and method comments in Pharo.


Now we have package comments :) so we should take also advantage of them.

I would love that a newbie is highlithed by class comments.

So I would like to start to comment key core classes.

I'm sure that if we all spend 30 min per week we can really have a huge 
impact.


I was planning to start with collection classes.

Now let me know if you want to help.

Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] Breaking the 4GB barrier with Pharo 6 64-bit

2016-11-14 Thread stepharo


Hi thierry


did you happen to have a techreport or any description of your work?


Stef


Le 11/11/16 à 11:44, Thierry Goubier a écrit :

Le 11/11/2016 à 11:29, Stephan Eggermont a écrit :

On 10/11/16 21:35, Igor Stasenko wrote:

No, no, no! This is simply not true.
It is you, who writes the code that generates a lot of statistical
data/analysis data, and its output is fairly predictable.. else you are
not collecting any data, but just a random noise, isn't?


That would be green field development. In brown field development, I
only get in when people start noticing there is a problem (why do we
need more than 4GBytes for this?). At that point I want to be able to
load everything they can give me in an image so I can start analyzing
and structuring it.

I mean, Doru is light years ahead of me and many others in field of 
data

analysis.. so what i can advise to him on his playground?


Well, the current FAMIX model implementation is clearly not well
structured for analyzing large code bases. And it is difficult to
partition because of unpredictable access patterns and high
interconnection.


This is why you look for a general purpose, efficient off-loading 
scheme, trying to optimize a general case and get reasonable 
performance out of it (a.k.a fuel, but designed for partial unloading 
/ loading: allow dangling references in a unit of load, focus on 
per-page units to match the underlying storage layer or network).


I wrote one such layer for VW a long time ago, but didn't had time to 
experiment / qualify some of the techniques in it. There was an 
interesting attempt (IMHO ... wasn't qualified) at combining paging 
and automatic refinement of application working set, based on previous 
experience implementing a hierarchical 2D object access scheme for 
large datasets on slow medium (decreased access time from 30 minutes 
to about a few seconds).


The other approach I would look is take some of the support code for 
such an automatic layer and use it to unload parts of my model;, and 
I'm pretty sure that, if I don't bench intensively, I'll get the 
partitioning wrong :(


Overall, an interesting subject, totally not valid from a scientific 
point of view (the database guys have already solved everything). Only 
valid as a hobby, or if a company is ready to pay for a solution.


Thierry

Re: [Pharo-dev] macOS Sierra support

2016-11-14 Thread stepharo


Good

Tx


Le 14/11/16 à 11:36, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
for the moment, I added this nice (?) alert when you press mac 
download button:



On 14 Nov 2016, at 11:30, Esteban Lorenzano > wrote:



On 14 Nov 2016, at 11:01, MartinW > wrote:


Can someone put a note to the website (http://pharo.org/download)? It is
frustrating for users to follow the link to
http://files.pharo.org/platform/Pharo5.0-mac.zip from there and get a
defunct Pharo installation.


no, in fact that link should work.
… and in fact, it works… is just that due the changes in sierra, the 
bundle needs to be put in /Applications to not be copied into a 
sandbox, readonly place.


I’m working on have this working in a different way: is time to make 
PharoLauncher the default download. That way it will be in 
/Applications naturally and your images will be in a correct place 
naturally (I also would like a “add command line tools” option to 
install a pharo and pharo-ui in /usr/local/bin).


Esteban




Sean P. DeNigris wrote


EstebanLM wrote

the regular download by zeroconf should give you an usable VM.

That worked - thanks!


Yes, this VM works well :)



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Re: [Pharo-dev] http://tracker.pharo.org down ?

2016-11-13 Thread stepharo


esteban do we have a how to somewhere?


Le 13/11/16 à 14:02, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :

it was down, I restarted it (along with the catalog).

Esteban


On 13 Nov 2016, at 10:28, Nicolai Hess  wrote:

can not create a slice for an issue:
ZnHttpUnsuccessful: 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable

Re: [Pharo-dev] Invoice management

2016-11-11 Thread stepharo


Hi

I started to build silly bills using Artefact (and I should finish).

I saw that I should add more components to Artefact and it is on my todo.

Doing so I discover that there is a super cool library for date printing 
in Zn.


Stef


Le 11/11/16 à 18:48, Trussardi Dario Romano a écrit :

Ciao,

I hope this email and relative question does not create problems to the 
list.

A dear friend asked me if I was able to handle the invoice management:

1 ) create the document with some items

2)  print and save the document

3) have the possibility to make some queries on the documents

Someone realized something in this direction  based on Smalltalk ( 
Pharo ) ?

A base development with possibly to customize..


Thanks for any considerations.


Dario

Re: [Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?

I tried to open the image that glenn gave me and I can browse the code
(I got an FFI problem due to the fact that the lib is not present).

I tried and I could open the image from the ci with the vm glenn sent me.

So I will update my vm.

Stef

Le 6/11/16 à 20:19, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Hi,

It does not work to run the Bloc examples with the regular VM, but it does work
to browse the code. Stef is saying that he cannot browse code in the Bloc image.

This is a significant problem, but I just do not see why this is so. So, it
would be very useful for us to learn where this problem could come from.

Doru

On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:01 PM, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

Just taking Bloc image from CI does not work. Don't forget that you need Sparta
plugin (libMoz2D.dylib/DLL/so). I didn't find a way how to ship plugin with
image, sorry...

It can be downloaded from bintray https://bintray.com/syrel/Moz2D/libMoz2D.

Cheers
Alex

On Nov 6, 2016 4:58 PM, "Tudor Girba" wrote:
Hi,

I think there are a couple of thinks that are mixed up.

First, the image from CI:
- download the latest image built on October 12 on Jenkins:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Bloc/PHARO=60,VERSION=development,VM=vm/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Bloc.zip
- run it either with the stable of the latest VM
==> you should get no crash when opening the image (I just checked again)

The code loading is a bit strange. I just tried and I do now know why this does
not work from the command line on Mac. For me it somehow hanged while loading
PetitCSS. There is something strange with Metacello and projects that depend on
Glamour that I could not quite fully understand yet and I am looking at it
since a month. Dale, I need your help, but I will follow up on this :).

At the same time, I can reliably load the code using this script from a fresh
Pharo image and the latest VM:

Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc';
configuration;
loadDevelopment.

Can you please try this one?

Cheers,
Doru

On Nov 6, 2016, at 11:24 AM, stepharo wrote:

I got to the ci and I click on the image and download and drop it on my vm=>
crash.
Why doing a video?

open a shell

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

And it fails loading taskit.

Stef

Le 6/11/16 à 11:01, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :

The best would be if you could make a video of how you install Bloc and send to
Glenn. Because it works for us and for Travis CI. Sound like you face a
strange and not so easy to catch issue.

Cheers
Alex

On Nov 5, 2016 6:54 PM, "stepharo" wrote:
why sparta depends on Taskit?

Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange that a
graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management system.

I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So so far I
could not see any recent versions of Bloc.

I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job crashes my vm.

Stef

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

just failed yesterday for me.

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"What we can governs what we wish."

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done."

Re: [Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?

may be my vm is old but this is a spur one. I will try with the latest
one and report.

stef

Le 6/11/16 à 20:19, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Hi,

It does not work to run the Bloc examples with the regular VM, but it does work
to browse the code. Stef is saying that he cannot browse code in the Bloc image.

This is a significant problem, but I just do not see why this is so. So, it
would be very useful for us to learn where this problem could come from.

Doru

On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:01 PM, Aliaksei Syrel wrote:

Just taking Bloc image from CI does not work. Don't forget that you need Sparta
plugin (libMoz2D.dylib/DLL/so). I didn't find a way how to ship plugin with
image, sorry...

It can be downloaded from bintray https://bintray.com/syrel/Moz2D/libMoz2D.

Cheers
Alex

On Nov 6, 2016 4:58 PM, "Tudor Girba" wrote:
Hi,

I think there are a couple of thinks that are mixed up.

At the same time, I can reliably load the code using this script from a fresh
Pharo image and the latest VM:

Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc';
configuration;
loadDevelopment.

Can you please try this one?

Cheers,
Doru

On Nov 6, 2016, at 11:24 AM, stepharo wrote:

I got to the ci and I click on the image and download and drop it on my vm=>
crash.
Why doing a video?

open a shell

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

And it fails loading taskit.

Stef

Le 6/11/16 à 11:01, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :

The best would be if you could make a video of how you install Bloc and send to
Glenn. Because it works for us and for Travis CI. Sound like you face a
strange and not so easy to catch issue.

Cheers
Alex

On Nov 5, 2016 6:54 PM, "stepharo" wrote:
why sparta depends on Taskit?

Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange that a
graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management system.

I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So so far I
could not see any recent versions of Bloc.

I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job crashes my vm.

Stef

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

just failed yesterday for me.

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"What we can governs what we wish."

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done."

Re: [Pharo-dev] http://pharo.org/files/pharo.png


No idea but it should not because it breaks our nice examples.

if you have the file I can add it back.

May be esteban when he was removing Amber dependencies in Marina.

Stef


Le 6/11/16 à 18:14, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit :

Who removed http://pharo.org/files/pharo.png ?

Why ?

It is used in tests/examples.

Could it be put back please, even it is not used (it does do no harm) ?

A basic rule of the Web is not to break existing stuff.

yes but there is no become/allInstances to find who is using you


Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?

Hi doru

Hi,

I think there are a couple of thinks that are mixed up.

yes they both contribute to making bloc not accessible to mortals.

It crashes with me systematically. May be this is not the latest stable vm.

At the same time, I can reliably load the code using this script from a fresh
Pharo image and the latest VM:

Good to know

Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'Pharo' project: 'Bloc';
configuration;
loadDevelopment.

Can you please try this one?

I will.
Now I'm busy and since I cannot push little fixes
I'm not really interested to lose time.

I checked the code with the image glenn sent me and since there is not
enough good class comments I
decided that I will not invest. I'm kind of fed up losing my time
reverse engineering other code.

STef

Cheers,
Doru

On Nov 6, 2016, at 11:24 AM, stepharo wrote:

I got to the ci and I click on the image and download and drop it on my vm=>
crash.
Why doing a video?

open a shell

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

And it fails loading taskit.

Stef

Le 6/11/16 à 11:01, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :

The best would be if you could make a video of how you install Bloc and send to
Glenn. Because it works for us and for Travis CI. Sound like you face a
strange and not so easy to catch issue.

Cheers
Alex

On Nov 5, 2016 6:54 PM, "stepharo" wrote:
why sparta depends on Taskit?

Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange that a
graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management system.

I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So so far I
could not see any recent versions of Bloc.

I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job crashes my vm.

Stef

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development

just failed yesterday for me.

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"What we can governs what we wish."

[Pharo-dev] About balkanisation


Hi

I would like that you think a bit about our community and that there is 
a value in using common tools


to share and develop common libraries. Because to me it feels like we 
are getting balkanize.



It may look super cool and be hyper trendy to use github (because like 
that you can say that you use latest hyper cool


features), but I would like to ask especially people building libraries 
to pay attention that it is important


that other people can contribute back easily and that there is an easy 
way to load/contribute.


Today I experienced Bloc

- I cannot load code and I cannot contribute.

- I saw mdl with a mixture between smalltalkhub and github (sounds 
super hyper cool) and I saw paul not being able to contribute :(



Yes you can say that monticello sucks yes it is terrible yes we all fell 
like Cobol programmers but at the end of the day.


Yes the herb is always greener elsewhere. Yes yes yes. Let us take some 
facts.


We managed pharo and moose with it over the last 8 years successfully 
and Pharo and moose are not 5 packages together from


what I can see. So pay attention about the decision you take.

Now we will provide git support (this is 8 months that nicolas is 
exclusively working/thinking/dreaming


about that) and that we are doing experiments (Guille is managing the 
bootstrap in github).


Now when everybody will have its own little project lost on github (I do 
not count the amount of time I do not find pillar on github because I forget


that it is called pillar-markup), what will we do.

So we need an infrastructure to handle this and christophe is working on 
this.


I think that you should consider the accidental complexity as something 
that we can minimise by using patterns and common practices.


Now you can think that I'm an idiot and that I have no vision (be my 
guest) but we should pay attention because we are a small community.


Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Bloc] Hierarchy of BiEvent




Le 27/10/16 à 10:57, Guille Polito a écrit :

Something itches me from this discussion.

I somehow find myself with Glenn:
- should Bloc work with other than SDL/OSWindow?
- should SDL/OSWindow work with other than Bloc?

Merging the event hierarchy may prevent these two scenarios. And these 
scenarios are not only really possible: this is what the current 
scenario is. On one hand SDL and OSWindow work today with Morphic 
besides Block. On the other hand Bloc is, after all, an external 
library loaded on top of Pharo.


To explain better what I think:

- First I have the feeling that BIEvent and OSEvent are not the same 
thing. They have the same *NAME*. But they model different concepts. 
What is an event in bloc does not make sense in OSWindow and 
vice-versa. Why? because OSWindow does not manage widgets nor 
interactions between them.


- Second, I think that this idea of merging these hierarchies means 
merging layers also, what leads also to our monolithic system. I agree 
that this may impose some maintenance burden because there is the 
maintenance of the two layers plus their mapping (e.g., between the 
low-level events and the high-level events). But otherwise we are 
tampering the modularity.


Now, I liked more the suggestion of making Bloc using SDLEvents directly.

But then, wasn't it an idea behind OSWindow that users of OSWindow 
should be somehow abstracted from the backend behind. And SDL be just 
a backend? Something like Athens and Cairo.


Is SDL meant to work alone or be just a backend for OSWindow? Because 
if the case is the later, then maybe it makes sense to do the inverse: 
SDL should generate directly OSEvents and we should not have SDLEvent.


may be.
Now I do not think that doing more than two transformations is good.



And going even further: Is OSWindow used in isolation? e.g., without 
morphic or bloc.


Because then, it the problem is the runtime overhead OSWindow should 
maybe not reify its events but propose a low level event handler 
mechanism where we could have


MorphicOSWindowEventHandler
  >> keyEvent: ...
  >> mouseEvent: ...

BlocOSWindowEventHandler
  >> keyEvent: ...
  >> mouseEvent: ...

And each framework generates its own events from low level SDL data. 
No event transformations, less duplications, and both Bloc and Morphic 
are plugged on top of OSWindow but not really strongly coupled to it.

may be

Re: [Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?


Hi


Hi

Sparta definitely does not depend on TaskIt :) I have no idea what is it.



Ok we are safe then :) I was a bit feeling dizzy about this.
I read the code and this is bloc when it launches a new task.

Now I will stop to try to look at bloc because I get just losing my time.
Sorry to have asked.

I think that I should focus on the web sadly.


Cheers
Alex


On Nov 5, 2016 6:54 PM, "stepharo" <mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:


why sparta depends on Taskit?


Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange
that a graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management
system.

I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So
so far I could not see any recent versions of Bloc.

I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job
crashes my vm.


Stef


wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
<http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main>
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development


just failed yesterday for me.

Re: [Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?

I got to the ci and I click on the image and download and drop it on my 
vm=> crash.


Why doing a video?

open a shell

wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config 
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main 
<http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main> ConfigurationOfBloc 
--install=development



And it fails loading taskit.

Stef




Le 6/11/16 à 11:01, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :


The best would be if you could make a video of how you install Bloc 
and send to Glenn. Because it works for us and for Travis CI. Sound 
like you face a strange and not so easy to catch issue.


Cheers
Alex


On Nov 5, 2016 6:54 PM, "stepharo" <mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:


why sparta depends on Taskit?


Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange
that a graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management
system.

I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So
so far I could not see any recent versions of Bloc.

I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job
crashes my vm.


Stef


wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main
<http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main>
ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development


just failed yesterday for me.

[Pharo-dev] why sparta depends on Taskit?


why sparta depends on Taskit?


Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange that a 
graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management system.


I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So so 
far I could not see any recent versions of Bloc.


I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job crashes my 
vm.



Stef


wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash
./pharo Pharo.image config 
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main ConfigurationOfBloc 
--install=development



just failed yesterday for me.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Newbie(ish) Question on SVG with Athens / Roassal / Spec


Hi Graham




Hi

I am contemplating moving an old Pharo app (1.4 vintage) which used 
Morphic heavily into the new Pharo world (Pharo 5).
One of the options is to move a proprietary vector graphic 
implementation which draws symbols to SVG.


Looking for examples / documentation on the use of SVG (external 
files, not image defined paths) has been very frustrating.
All examples I have found have been old and none of the file based / 
load ones work.


Can anyone please point me to good documentation / examples?
I want to understand how one can use:
SVG with Athens

I think that there is an example around for SVG in Athens.
There some limits due to cairo because certain arcs are not supported by 
cairo.

SVG with Spec
Spec should be extended to offer a container displaying Athens canvas I 
imagine.



SVG loaded from a file with Roassal

I imagine that roassal does not do anything special besides using Athens.




Thanks in advance.

Graham

Re: [Pharo-dev] Instructions for Pharo 6 64bits

Hi jan

will you contact to add Pharo to the list of languages because this is 
good for us to be in this list.

Stef

Le 5/11/16 à 13:55, Jan van de Sandt a écrit :

Hi Sven,

LMDB is a lean, mean and very fast storage engine. One limitation is 
that you need a 64bit proces before you can store more than 2GB of 
data. That was a downside for me until very recently :-)

LMDB is a low level key-value storage engine that runs on a single 
host. But if that is what you are looking for it seems pretty good. I 
haven't used it in any production systems yet. But it is used as a 
storage engine in quite a few open source projects. For example OpenLDAP.

Jan.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Jan van de Sandt > wrote:

Hi,

The only thing I had to do was to regenerate the accessors of the
structure classes MDBValue and MDBStat. The offsets for the fields
are different on 32 versus 64 bit systems. Perhaps we can think of
a way to generate the field accessors of structure classes such
that they work in both environments.

For now just you can just use #rebuildFieldAccessors

Jan.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Thierry Goubier
mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Le 05/11/2016 à 12:12, Jan van de Sandt a écrit :

Hi,

With the latest 64bits VM (201611042126) and image (60282)
UFFI is also
looking good. I'm testing a small library of mine [1] to
interface with
LMDB [1], a memory mapped key-value database. Almost all
tests are
green. This is great progress!

Hi Jan,

did you have to change your UFFI definitions to match the
64bits version of your lib?

Thierry

I only ran into one issue, a PrimitiveFailed error with
#basicIdentityHash in the SmallFloat64 class.

Cheers,
Jan.

[1] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~JanVanDeSandt/LightningMDB

[2]
https://symas.com/products/lightning-memory-mapped-database/

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Esteban Lorenzano
mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>
>>
wrote:

VM here:
http://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/build#files/

>
Image here:
http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip

>

this is still not official (that’s why is not in
official place) so
there are a couple of known problems:

- version format is different, and that breaks some
things in image
that depends on it to know what happens
- command line is different and probably you’ll need
to play a bit
with options (one or two dashes).
- UFFI has some failing tests (but most of it works).

I would appreciate some help to report and/or fix the
emerging
problems.

cheers,
Esteban

On 28 Oct 2016, at 10:39, Thierry Goubier
mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

Hi all,

anybody knows how to get (and test) the 64bits
version of the
Pharo vm and image?

Thanks,

Thierry

Re: [Pharo-dev] pillar highlight text in code


Yes I should fix them.



Le 3/11/16 à 23:52, Nicolai Hess a écrit :



2016-11-03 23:50 GMT+01:00 Nicolai Hess >:


Can we highlight a piece of code?
In the updated PBE (Reflection chapter) there is the text:
"Change the definition of Integer>>>factorial by inserting the
underlined expression as shown below"
But I can not see the "underline" in the code example. Is it even
possible to add such text properties to a "code-style" formatted
text ?

BTW, the method name is wrong (in both places)
Integer>>#factorial
not
Integer>>>factorial



actually all code examples in that chapter uses
>>>
instead of
>>#

Re: [Pharo-dev] Keyboard list item navigation in Sender browser is strange