Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[Alistair Grant]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 09:50:46PM +0200, Herby Vojk wrote:
> stephan wrote:
> >On 11-10-17 20:33, Herby Vojk wrote:
> >>127 is general, is not sqlite-specific. Fixes any case where primary
> >>key is not primitive and has converter.
> >
> >Should 127 and 129 be merged first, and should current development be
> >promoted to release? And why is 128 missing?
> >
> >Stephan
> >
> >
> 
> 129 is from different author, who skipped upload of its 127 and 128
> (probably intermediates).
> 
> 127 is mine, fixes IMO overoptimized case for DirectMapping which
> unlike its superclass (thus all the other mappings as there is no
> other specialization), stopped converting primary keys to db value in
> fk->pk relationships.

129 is mine.  129 is dated July 2016 while 127 is dated August 2017,
which I guess accounts for why I based 129 on 126.


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:31:17AM +0200, stephan wrote:
> On 06-10-17 17:22, Herby Vojk wrote:
> >Any chance of incorporating fixes 127 / 129?
> 
> Sure, as soon as someone tells me they are safe to
> add. I am just testing Glorp with P3 and Postgres now,
> and don't have the capacity to verify these changes
> other than by just reading the delta.
> 
> Stephan

129 has been available since July 2016 and was promoted to #development
by Pierce in January 2017.

I've been using it without any problems since I submitted it in July
2016.

Cheers,
Alistair

Re: [Pharo-users] Custom URI scheme for Pharo

[Manuel Leuenberger]

Sounds like a nice setup you got there :).

I want to integrate documents displayed in the system viewer, as they cannot be 
displayed within Pharo (Web, PDF, …). So hyperlinking is the only way I see to 
get something close. I created a little demo where I injected hyperlinks in a 
PDF like ‘pharo://click?whatever=youwant' . 
When you click them, a little Objective-C app catches the OS event and forwards 
it to an HTTP server running in Pharo. So I can do things like this:

https://youtu.be/CR_scZSDf3s 

> On 11 Oct 2017, at 00:24, Dimitris Chloupis  wrote:
> 
> I think I remember this disussed before.
> By talking with Pharo I assume here about another program talking to Pharo ? 
> Possible not wrriten in Pharo ?
> 
> If thats the case then you can use whatever IPC works better for your needs. 
> If the communication will be remotely I recommend sockets, for  fast local 
> communication I recommend shared memory. They are both very mature 
> technologies , very reliable and cross platform.
> 
> Now on the URI protocol, I think that will depend what you want to achieve. 
> Any string will be easy to parse with Pharo's regex and trigger the 
> approriate methods. Pharo also have Annoucements, think of it as an event 
> system that awaits to be triggered by an event, usually a Pharo event but I 
> see no reason why it cant listen to external events either. 
> 
> I do not think you will need a middle application , a servel client relation 
> shipe should be more than enough. 
> 
> With my Atlas bridge which is a Pharo library that allows you to use Python 
> libraries I did a neat trick with Pharo that it already communicated with 
> Python via sockets, sending python commands but also Python could communicate 
> back errors , then Pharo would trigger the debugger, display the python error 
> inside the Pharo debugger and the debugger would pop up on the exact pharo 
> command that send the faulty python code. You could then change the pharo 
> command on the spot and it was resent and python continued like the error 
> never happened to retain the all important live coding workflow.
> 
> I created a tiny protocol to difirentia incoming messages talking about 
> errors from the ones returning python varriable values. Something stupid like 
> "pythonError: blah blah" but it got the job done
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:07 PM Manuel Leuenberger  > wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any support from the VM/Application package to add custom URI 
> schemes to listen to from within Pharo? I would like to have a hyperlink like 
> ‘pharo://send?data=fancypants’ <> in an arbitrary document that, when 
> clicked, switches to Pharo and calls a hook I can register. Could someone 
> give me a hint how to achieve that, or do I have to build a little bridge 
> application that handles the scheme registration and talks with Pharo through 
> another channel? Currently, I only need this for OS X.
> 
> Cheers,
> Manuel
>  

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[Herby Vojčík]

stephan wrote:

On 11-10-17 21:50, Herby Vojčík wrote:


129 is from different author, who skipped upload of its 127 and 128
(probably intermediates).

127 is mine, fixes IMO overoptimized case for DirectMapping which
unlike its superclass (thus all the other mappings as there is no
other specialization), stopped converting primary keys to db value in
fk->pk relationships.


Name: ConfigurationOfGlorp-StephanEggermont.62
Author: StephanEggermont
Time: 11 October 2017, 10:00:05.488994 pm
UUID: a7105b9b-ac17-0d00-a62f-44e602acb0bc
Ancestors: ConfigurationOfGlorp-StephanEggermont.61

Patch for stable/release2/2.0.1

Fix error with DirectMapping primary key
not being converted to db type.

In the metarepos, dbxtalk/glorp and dbxtalk/configurations


Thank you very much, sir. :-)

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Ben Coman]

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Dimitris Chloupis 
wrote:

> Yes sorry for not making this clear. I was wrong in this case. A module
> reload will only replace class objects not instance objects. So if you
> create a new instance after the reload it will have the updated version but
> your old instance would not.
>
> I try to test something before I make a claim but in this case I failed
> because I forgot the obvious. The tiny fact I was reinitialising my objects
> in the python project I am currently using live coding, so of course my
> instances were updating instantenously because I was in a loop that was
> recreating them every few milliseconds.
>
> When webwarrior mentioned this it draw my supisions and I tested it
> outside my code in the interpreter and it became obvious I was wrong. This
> why my reply I dont claim he is wrong and I am talking about injecting
> methods to old objects.
>
> I have no problem admitting when I am wrong but in this case maybe I was
> not clear enough considering I am responsible for exploding this thread , I
> hope in a good way.
>
> So yes its possible to do in Python but no it is not coming already
> available to you, so you can restrain yourself from abandoning Pharo for
> Python ;)
>
> Python is not there yet. I still keep the opinion that is easy to do ,
> method injection is just regular assignment, you cannot get any easier than
> assignment but this means you have to keep track of the instances of a
> class and replace their methods.
>

This is what Smalltalk gives you for free.


> The good news is that if you replace just the methods and not the entire
> object , you can keep the references to the old instance because keeping
> track of the references as well would be trickier. So this way you would
> not brake your references and having to rebuild them to point to a new
> instance because you continue to use the old instance but with updated
> methods. You can do this also with adding / removing / editing variables
> and/or methods.
>

So while Python has the flexibility for you to program such a system
yourself, you don't get it for free like Smalltalk.


> So it does have a wide application. Python can give you back the
> references to and from an object (via gc module) but the problem is that
> when an object is created its already referenced by many internal stuff so
> it can get messy soon.
>

Smalltalk handles this for free.  You need #become:
https://gbracha.blogspot.com.au/2009/07/miracle-of-become.html
Note one of the comments links to user code that apparently does the same
thing in Python.  But again this is Python "allows" you to, not "Python"
gives it to you, but it could be good enough for you.


> Plus Python is not exactly a high performance language ,
>

We now have this for improved performance...
https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01152610/file/partialReadBarrier.pdf


> unless you use third party libraries focusing on performance (basically C
> libraries wrapped for Python).
>

And how does such C libraries impact your live coding?  Its not longer
turtles all the way down (or its turtles walking off a cliff)
Of course, the same applies for FFI with Pharo, and one of the reasons that
Smalltalk historically has been view as insular, living in its own world
avoid using non-Smalltalk libraries - because the lose of live coding here
is a big impact.

cheers -ben




> In my case its easy to do because I care about live coding my own project
> and do not care about code outside of it, because I wont be changing it
> anyway. But if I had to do this the Pharo way , providing a full live
> enviroment it would be easy because I would have to find a mechanism to
> accomodate for tons of Python code that does not follow live coding
> standards by a long margin. So my goal is not to come up with full blown
> live coding enviroment like Pharo does, that is simply not possible because
> there is like a ton of python code out there and I am sure there so many
> scenarios that live coding in python can go wrong that I am not even aware
> of. But if live code is only for my code and my code alone , I dont think I
> will have any major issues. Afterall even when I use Pharo I use live
> coding strictly for my code and rarely touch the enviroment with the
> exception of once messing with UI theme classes.
>
> But then again I am so new to this that at any point I may come up for a
> solution about this too, who knows :)
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:05 PM Pierce Ng  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:41:17AM +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> > execution. Hence live coding, the Python VM replaces objects lively.
>> Python
>> > can also compile any size of code including individual methods.
>> > That happens with one line of code importlib.reload(mymodule)
>>
>> AFAIK in Python when you modify and reload source, existing instances are
>> not
>> "reshaped" to the modified code. Not live enough. Of course with Python
>> 

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence & Neural Networks

[Dimitris Chloupis]

I am interested in code analysis so any guidance in this area I love it ,
AI related of course
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 16:12, Serge Stinckwich 
wrote:

> I would like to advertise the TechTalk for colleagues of my lab.
> They can join Discord using the invitation link ?
> http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > A TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence is soon approaching.
> > The talk will be about implementing a neural networks in Pharo.
> >
> > It is scheduled on Tuesday 17Oct, 2017 (5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00))
> >
> > I need your input. Which example to you want me to use?
> > - Data manipulation, or
> > - Designing a small AI for a game
> >
> > Please answer:
> > https://twitter.com/alexbergel/status/918084438197784578
> >
> > Some info about the event:
> > https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664
> > https://www.facebook.com/events/133683180530368
> >
> > Thanks Marcus Denker and the RMoD crew for their help in organizing it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alexandre
> >
> > --
> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> > Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Serge Stinckwich
> UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1)
> "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for
> machines to execute."
> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[stephan]

On 11-10-17 21:50, Herby Vojčík wrote:

129 is from different author, who skipped upload of its 127 and 128 
(probably intermediates).


127 is mine, fixes IMO overoptimized case for DirectMapping which unlike 
its superclass (thus all the other mappings as there is no other 
specialization), stopped converting primary keys to db value in fk->pk 
relationships.


Name: ConfigurationOfGlorp-StephanEggermont.62
Author: StephanEggermont
Time: 11 October 2017, 10:00:05.488994 pm
UUID: a7105b9b-ac17-0d00-a62f-44e602acb0bc
Ancestors: ConfigurationOfGlorp-StephanEggermont.61

Patch for stable/release2/2.0.1

Fix error with DirectMapping primary key
not being converted to db type.

In the metarepos, dbxtalk/glorp and dbxtalk/configurations

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[Herby Vojčík]

stephan wrote:

On 11-10-17 20:33, Herby Vojčík wrote:
127 is general, is not sqlite-specific. Fixes any case where primary 
key is not primitive and has converter.


Should 127 and 129 be merged first, and should current development be 
promoted to release? And why is 128 missing?


Stephan




129 is from different author, who skipped upload of its 127 and 128 (probably 
intermediates).

127 is mine, fixes IMO overoptimized case for DirectMapping which unlike its 
superclass (thus all the other mappings as there is no other specialization), 
stopped converting primary keys to db value in fk->pk relationships.

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[stephan]

On 11-10-17 20:33, Herby Vojčík wrote:
127 is general, is not sqlite-specific. Fixes any case where primary key 
is not primitive and has converter.


Should 127 and 129 be merged first, and should current development be 
promoted to release? And why is 128 missing?


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] X11 options on Ubuntu VM / Athens rendering problems

[Hilaire]

We tested it on P6.1 64bits, and this Cairo crash seems to be gone. It 
may need more testing though.


Is it thanks to P6.1 or the 64bits image/VM? It looks strange because it 
looked like a lib Cairo crash, but in the other hand the faulty C 
function did not appear to be called from Pharo image.


What need to be done porting to P6.1, is mainly image shrinking, fix of 
several bugs from P6.1 impacting drgeo, working setup for 
linux/windows/mac. Still some job.


Hilaire

Le 02/10/2017 à 15:19, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :

How could we help?


On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Hilaire  wrote:

I had situation where the system libcairo:i386 does not work with Dr.Geo[1],
Pharo crashes with what looks like a Cairo crash! Looks like not a Pharo
fault, but I am definitely stuck.

It is problematic, it is a system (LinuxMint based) used in Geneva primary
schools and Dr. Geo was expected to be used there:(

Hilaire

[1]http://forum.world.st/Cairo-related-crash-with-Dr-Geo-tt4952023.html


Le 01/10/2017 à 19:50, Igor Stasenko a écrit :

 All these difficulties are good argument to get the appropriate
 libcairo/libpng shipped with the Linux VM, as done with Windows
 and MacOSX VM

Nah, in my case, there's nothing that can be lableled as "Pharo fault". It
is definitely a linux/ubuntu ecosystem fault. - by not providing parallel
updates for 32 & 64 bit variant of same library.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu





--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[Herby Vojčík]

stephan wrote:

On 06-10-17 17:22, Herby Vojčík wrote:

Any chance of incorporating fixes 127 / 129?


Sure, as soon as someone tells me they are safe to
add. I am just testing Glorp with P3 and Postgres now,
and don't have the capacity to verify these changes
other than by just reading the delta.

Stephan





127 is general, is not sqlite-specific. Fixes any case where primary key is not 
primitive and has converter.

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so who
knows maybe we will have that soon enough ;)

There is a solution, not a great solution but it can do this.

You can kinda do this via metacello and filetree, because when you export
to git , it coverts class and method comments to markdown that can be
viewed like online documentation . They are saved as README.md which is the
standard for github. That means you can use markdown inside the class and
method comments , and then convert that to HTML . Tons of markdown to html
coverters out there so it would not be a problem.

Of course Pharo users may not be happy to read comments in markdown but
then markdown has minimal syntax so it should not be such a major issue.

The real problem is the class comments itself, if you lack comments talking
about automated API reference documentation sounds the least of the
problems.

Cannot blame developers, documentation is as much work as writting the code
and I can understand that some may find it much less pleasant than I do :)

I tried my best to help on the documentation department but we need more
people because its an effort not only to document but also to keep the
documentation updated.

One of the perk working in an enviroment improving very fast, but you wont
get any complain from me about this ;)

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 6:02 PM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:

> Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really sold on
> them compared with a live system and I don't think static API docs are
> critical for Pharo success.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using
> bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that makes
> html manipulation much easier
>
> http://www.kilon-alios.com
>
> Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an awesome
> Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I thought , why
> not ?
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis 
> wrote:
>
>> Docs are available in static online html format , at least the book I was
>> working on
>>
>> Pharo By Example
>>
>> You can find those links here
>>
>> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
>>
>> Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and markdown
>> files.
>>
>> If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where most
>> Pharo related official projects are built then it should have at least pdf
>> and html with online access so you can easily link to.
>>
>> Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar generate
>> links even for paragraphs you can do an even more process linking to the
>> documentation.
>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
>> offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems
>>> pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and
>>> GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to find
>>> #raisedTo:, so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper books
>>> for particular domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if
>>> a Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly you can find
>>> little stuff in Stack Overflow).
>>>
>>> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is
>>> kind of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community of
>>> people who can be active contributors and members of the community, welcome
>>> Pharo and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff that
>>> is not already pretty similar to what they already know (being that only
>>> English MOOC or online static html docs).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Offray
>>>
>>> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>>
>>> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your
>>> entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code
>>> organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have
>>> to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP
>>> friendly.
>>>
>>> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can
>>> find implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex ,
>>> welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not
>>> all as well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of
>>> using sort methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even
>>> harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much
>>> harder to understand in a bird eye view.
>>>
>>> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter
>>> which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah
>>> there are more needed to be done in the department 

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

major mistake i meant to say
"providing a full live enviroment it would NOT  be easy because I would
have to find a mechanism to accomodate for tons of Python code that does
not follow live coding standards "

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 8:08 PM Dimitris Chloupis 
wrote:

> Yes sorry for not making this clear. I was wrong in this case. A module
> reload will only replace class objects not instance objects. So if you
> create a new instance after the reload it will have the updated version but
> your old instance would not.
>
> I try to test something before I make a claim but in this case I failed
> because I forgot the obvious. The tiny fact I was reinitialising my objects
> in the python project I am currently using live coding, so of course my
> instances were updating instantenously because I was in a loop that was
> recreating them every few milliseconds.
>
> When webwarrior mentioned this it draw my supisions and I tested it
> outside my code in the interpreter and it became obvious I was wrong. This
> why my reply I dont claim he is wrong and I am talking about injecting
> methods to old objects.
>
> I have no problem admitting when I am wrong but in this case maybe I was
> not clear enough considering I am responsible for exploding this thread , I
> hope in a good way.
>
> So yes its possible to do in Python but no it is not coming already
> available to you, so you can restrain yourself from abandoning Pharo for
> Python ;)
>
> Python is not there yet. I still keep the opinion that is easy to do ,
> method injection is just regular assignment, you cannot get any easier than
> assignment but this means you have to keep track of the instances of a
> class and repace their methods. The good news is that if you replace just
> the methods and not the entire object , you can keep the references to the
> old instance because keeping track of the references as well would be
> trickier. So this way you would not brake your references and having to
> rebuild them to point to a new instance because you continue to use the old
> instance but with updated methods. You can do this also with adding /
> removing / editing variables and/or methods. So it does have a wide
> application. Python can give you back the references to and from an object
> (via gc module) but the problem is that when an object is created its
> already referenced by many internal stuff so it can get messy soon. Plus
> Python is not exactly a high performance language , unless you use third
> party libraries focusing on performance (basically C libraries wrapped for
> Python).
>
> In my case its easy to do because I care about live coding my own project
> and do not care about code outside of it, because I wont be changing it
> anyway. But if I had to do this the Pharo way , providing a full live
> enviroment it would be easy because I would have to find a mechanism to
> accomodate for tons of Python code that does not follow live coding
> standards by a long margin. So my goal is not to come up with full blown
> live coding enviroment like Pharo does, that is simply not possible because
> there is like a ton of python code out there and I am sure there so many
> scenarios that live coding in python can go wrong that I am not even aware
> of. But if live code is only for my code and my code alone , I dont think I
> will have any major issues. Afterall even when I use Pharo I use live
> coding strictly for my code and rarely touch the enviroment with the
> exception of once messing with UI theme classes.
>
> But then again I am so new to this that at any point I may come up for a
> solution about this too, who knows :)
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:05 PM Pierce Ng  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:41:17AM +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> > execution. Hence live coding, the Python VM replaces objects lively.
>> Python
>> > can also compile any size of code including individual methods.
>> > That happens with one line of code importlib.reload(mymodule)
>>
>> AFAIK in Python when you modify and reload source, existing instances are
>> not
>> "reshaped" to the modified code. Not live enough. Of course with Python
>> objects
>> it is easy to add per-instance inst-vars, but still this needs to be
>> scripted
>> and doesn't come free with the programming environment.
>>
>> Pierce
>>
>>

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Yes sorry for not making this clear. I was wrong in this case. A module
reload will only replace class objects not instance objects. So if you
create a new instance after the reload it will have the updated version but
your old instance would not.

I try to test something before I make a claim but in this case I failed
because I forgot the obvious. The tiny fact I was reinitialising my objects
in the python project I am currently using live coding, so of course my
instances were updating instantenously because I was in a loop that was
recreating them every few milliseconds.

When webwarrior mentioned this it draw my supisions and I tested it outside
my code in the interpreter and it became obvious I was wrong. This why my
reply I dont claim he is wrong and I am talking about injecting methods to
old objects.

I have no problem admitting when I am wrong but in this case maybe I was
not clear enough considering I am responsible for exploding this thread , I
hope in a good way.

So yes its possible to do in Python but no it is not coming already
available to you, so you can restrain yourself from abandoning Pharo for
Python ;)

Python is not there yet. I still keep the opinion that is easy to do ,
method injection is just regular assignment, you cannot get any easier than
assignment but this means you have to keep track of the instances of a
class and repace their methods. The good news is that if you replace just
the methods and not the entire object , you can keep the references to the
old instance because keeping track of the references as well would be
trickier. So this way you would not brake your references and having to
rebuild them to point to a new instance because you continue to use the old
instance but with updated methods. You can do this also with adding /
removing / editing variables and/or methods. So it does have a wide
application. Python can give you back the references to and from an object
(via gc module) but the problem is that when an object is created its
already referenced by many internal stuff so it can get messy soon. Plus
Python is not exactly a high performance language , unless you use third
party libraries focusing on performance (basically C libraries wrapped for
Python).

In my case its easy to do because I care about live coding my own project
and do not care about code outside of it, because I wont be changing it
anyway. But if I had to do this the Pharo way , providing a full live
enviroment it would be easy because I would have to find a mechanism to
accomodate for tons of Python code that does not follow live coding
standards by a long margin. So my goal is not to come up with full blown
live coding enviroment like Pharo does, that is simply not possible because
there is like a ton of python code out there and I am sure there so many
scenarios that live coding in python can go wrong that I am not even aware
of. But if live code is only for my code and my code alone , I dont think I
will have any major issues. Afterall even when I use Pharo I use live
coding strictly for my code and rarely touch the enviroment with the
exception of once messing with UI theme classes.

But then again I am so new to this that at any point I may come up for a
solution about this too, who knows :)

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:05 PM Pierce Ng  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:41:17AM +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> > execution. Hence live coding, the Python VM replaces objects lively.
> Python
> > can also compile any size of code including individual methods.
> > That happens with one line of code importlib.reload(mymodule)
>
> AFAIK in Python when you modify and reload source, existing instances are
> not
> "reshaped" to the modified code. Not live enough. Of course with Python
> objects
> it is easy to add per-instance inst-vars, but still this needs to be
> scripted
> and doesn't come free with the programming environment.
>
> Pierce
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Pierce Ng]

On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:41:17AM +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> execution. Hence live coding, the Python VM replaces objects lively. Python
> can also compile any size of code including individual methods.
> That happens with one line of code importlib.reload(mymodule)

AFAIK in Python when you modify and reload source, existing instances are not
"reshaped" to the modified code. Not live enough. Of course with Python objects
it is easy to add per-instance inst-vars, but still this needs to be scripted
and doesn't come free with the programming environment.

Pierce

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Seaside for html live docs browsing seems a good idea. How do you create
something like [1]?:

[1]
http://files.pharo.org/doc/4.0/#packageList=package.html=package/Kernel.html=welcome.html

Cheers,

Offray


On 11/10/17 10:31, Marcus Denker wrote:
>
>
>> On 11 Oct 2017, at 17:18, Thierry Goubier > > wrote:
>>
>> What about a seaside-based system browser oriented towards code
>> documentation? That would fit both paradigms: html-like reference +
>> live browsing.
>>
>> You could even make it buzzword compliant: have a REST interface to
>> documentation and code.
>>
>> Note how the panes in a system browser could make for a nice URI:
>> just look for
>>
>> pharo://Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
>>
>> And we could even include version numbers, etc
>>
>> pharo://6.1/Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
>>
>> Not very different from the github url for the pharo project relevant
>> file...
>>
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/development/src/Kernel.package/Number.class/instance/raisedTo..st
>>
>
> There is http://files.pharo.org/doc/, too. 
>
> Marcus
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Marcus Denker]

> On 11 Oct 2017, at 17:18, Thierry Goubier  wrote:
> 
> What about a seaside-based system browser oriented towards code 
> documentation? That would fit both paradigms: html-like reference + live 
> browsing.
> 
> You could even make it buzzword compliant: have a REST interface to 
> documentation and code.
> 
> Note how the panes in a system browser could make for a nice URI: just look 
> for
> 
> pharo://Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
> 
> And we could even include version numbers, etc
> 
> pharo://6.1/Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
> 
> Not very different from the github url for the pharo project relevant file...
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/development/src/Kernel.package/Number.class/instance/raisedTo..st
>  
> 
> 

There is http://files.pharo.org/doc/ , too. 

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 11 Oct 2017, at 17:18, Thierry Goubier  wrote:
> 
> What about a seaside-based system browser oriented towards code 
> documentation? That would fit both paradigms: html-like reference + live 
> browsing.
> 
> You could even make it buzzword compliant: have a REST interface to 
> documentation and code.
> 
> Note how the panes in a system browser could make for a nice URI: just look 
> for
> 
> pharo://Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
> 
> And we could even include version numbers, etc
> 
> pharo://6.1/Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:
> 
> Not very different from the github url for the pharo project relevant file...
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/development/src/Kernel.package/Number.class/instance/raisedTo..st

Indeed. Too bad there are plans to put everything in one file (booo) ;-)

> Thierry
> 
> 2017-10-11 17:01 GMT+02:00 Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
> :
> Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really sold on 
> them compared with a live system and I don't think static API docs are 
> critical for Pharo success.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Offray
> 
> On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using 
>> bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that makes 
>> html manipulation much easier 
>> 
>> http://www.kilon-alios.com
>> 
>> Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an awesome 
>> Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I thought , why not 
>> ?
>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis  
>> wrote:
>> Docs are available in static online html format , at least the book I was 
>> working on 
>> 
>> Pharo By Example 
>> 
>> You can find those links here
>> 
>> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
>> 
>> Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and markdown files. 
>> 
>> If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where most Pharo 
>> related official projects are built then it should have at least pdf and 
>> html with online access so you can easily link to.
>> 
>> Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar generate links 
>> even for paragraphs you can do an even more process linking to the 
>> documentation. 
>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
>>  wrote:
>> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems pretty 
>> suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and GT-Spotter. 
>> Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to find #raisedTo:, 
>> so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper books for particular 
>> domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if a Q site could 
>> improve search-ability for newbies (certainly you can find little stuff in 
>> Stack Overflow).
>> 
>> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is kind 
>> of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community of people 
>> who can be active contributors and members of the community, welcome Pharo 
>> and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff that is not 
>> already pretty similar to what they already know (being that only English 
>> MOOC or online static html docs).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Offray
>> 
>> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your entire 
>>> system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code 
>>> organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have 
>>> to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP 
>>> friendly. 
>>> 
>>> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can find 
>>> implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex , welcome 
>>> to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not all as 
>>> well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort 
>>> methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even harder. 
>>> Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much harder to 
>>> understand in a bird eye view.
>>> 
>>> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter 
>>> which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah 
>>> there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code 
>>> navigation a more comfortable task. 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz  
>>> wrote:
>>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to 
>>> explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well 
>>> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this 
>>> ages ago. I might 

Re: [Pharo-users] Error loading Seaside Gettext support

[Trussardi Dario Romano]

Excuse me..

it's for Seaside problematic  and relative mails ...

Sorry,

Dario
> Ciao,
>> Ciao,
>> 
>> i load correctly the Gettext support into: Pharo 6.1-64 Latest 
>> update: #60510
>> 
>> In the image was load the Seaside 3.2
>> Now i do:
>> 
>> (ConfigurationOfSeaside3 project version: #stable )
>> load: #( 'Seaside-Gettext-Core' 'Seaside-Gettext-Examples').
>> 
>> The system erase the error: 
>> NaturalLanguageTranslator class(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: 
>> #domainRegistered:
>> 
>> TextDomainManager class>>registerDomain:
>> [ self registerDomain: domainName ] in TextDomainManager 
>> class>>domainInfoFor: in Block: [ self registerDomain: domainName ]
>> [ self at: key put: aBlock value ] in Dictionary>>at:ifAbsentPut: in Block: 
>> [ self at: key put: aBlock value ]
>> Dictionary>>at:ifAbsent:
>> Dictionary>>at:ifAbsentPut:
>> TextDomainManager class>>domainInfoFor:
>> TextDomainManager class>>registerCategoryPrefix:domain:
>> WAGettextExample class>>register
>> WAGettextExample class>>initialize
>> Some considerations ?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Dario
>   After the error i restart the image and the:WAGettextExample 
> class>>initialize  works well.
> 
>   Now i don't understand what i need to do for create the relative
> .potfile.
> 
>   The  WAGettextExample exportmethod  
> reference the:  WAGetTextExporter   but  is not in the system.
> 
>   The GetTextExporter  exportTemplate create only the 
> pharo.pot   file  (  ...  the relative  pharo.moworks 
> fine ).
> 
>   
>   Thanks for considerations,
>   
>   Dario
>   

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Thierry Goubier]

What about a seaside-based system browser oriented towards code
documentation? That would fit both paradigms: html-like reference + live
browsing.

You could even make it buzzword compliant: have a REST interface to
documentation and code.

Note how the panes in a system browser could make for a nice URI: just look
for

pharo://Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:

And we could even include version numbers, etc

pharo://6.1/Kernel/Number/mathematical%20functions/raisedTo:

Not very different from the github url for the pharo project relevant
file...

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/blob/development/src/Kernel.package/Number.class/instance/raisedTo..st

Thierry

2017-10-11 17:01 GMT+02:00 Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com>:

> Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really sold on
> them compared with a live system and I don't think static API docs are
> critical for Pharo success.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using
> bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that makes
> html manipulation much easier
>
> http://www.kilon-alios.com
>
> Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an awesome
> Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I thought , why
> not ?
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis 
> wrote:
>
>> Docs are available in static online html format , at least the book I was
>> working on
>>
>> Pharo By Example
>>
>> You can find those links here
>>
>> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
>>
>> Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and markdown
>> files.
>>
>> If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where most
>> Pharo related official projects are built then it should have at least pdf
>> and html with online access so you can easily link to.
>>
>> Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar generate
>> links even for paragraphs you can do an even more process linking to the
>> documentation.
>> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
>> offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems
>>> pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and
>>> GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to find
>>> #raisedTo:, so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper books
>>> for particular domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if
>>> a Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly you can find
>>> little stuff in Stack Overflow).
>>>
>>> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is
>>> kind of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community of
>>> people who can be active contributors and members of the community, welcome
>>> Pharo and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff that
>>> is not already pretty similar to what they already know (being that only
>>> English MOOC or online static html docs).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Offray
>>>
>>> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>>
>>> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your
>>> entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code
>>> organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have
>>> to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP
>>> friendly.
>>>
>>> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can
>>> find implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex ,
>>> welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not
>>> all as well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of
>>> using sort methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even
>>> harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much
>>> harder to understand in a bird eye view.
>>>
>>> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter
>>> which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah
>>> there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code
>>> navigation a more comfortable task.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way
 to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
 documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
 ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
 exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).


 I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by
 Richard: 

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really sold
on them compared with a live system and I don't think static API docs
are critical for Pharo success.

Cheers,

Offray


On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using
> bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that
> makes html manipulation much easier
>
> http://www.kilon-alios.com
>
> Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an
> awesome Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I
> thought , why not ?
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis  > wrote:
>
> Docs are available in static online html format , at least the
> book I was working on
>
> Pharo By Example
>
> You can find those links here
>
> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
>
> Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and
> markdown files.
>
> If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where
> most Pharo related official projects are built then it should have
> at least pdf and html with online access so you can easily link to.
>
> Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar
> generate links even for paragraphs you can do an even more process
> linking to the documentation.
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
> > wrote:
>
> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me
> seems pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code
> browser and GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it
> also took me little to find #raisedTo:, so the millage can
> vary. What I was missing was proper books for particular
> domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if a
> Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly
> you can find little stuff in Stack Overflow).
>
> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools
> (Grafoscopio is kind of this), besides tools for developers.
> There is a broad community of people who can be active
> contributors and members of the community, welcome Pharo and
> live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff
> that is not already pretty similar to what they already know
> (being that only English MOOC or online static html docs).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to
>> have your entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has
>> serious issues with code organisation and I find the lack of
>> namespaces quite inconvenient. You have to be careful how to
>> name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP friendly. 
>>
>> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure
>> you can find implementors , senders etc but if the execution
>> chain is complex , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a
>> problem with most other IDEs if not all as well. Problem is
>> in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort
>> methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation
>> even harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and
>> messages but much harder to understand in a bird eye view.
>>
>> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of
>> GTSpotter which I have praised quite a lot and I will
>> continue to do so. But yeah there are more needed to be done
>> in the department to make Pharo code navigation a more
>> comfortable task. 
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System
>> Browser a fantastic way to explore the class library.
>> If you find a class or method that isn’t well
>> documented, write a comment and send a change
>> request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might add, if
>> you find a bug you should write a test that exercises
>> the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking
>> system).
>>
>>
>> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion
>> made by Richard:
>> 
>> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich
>> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Error loading Seaside Gettext support

[Trussardi Dario Romano]

Ciao,
> Ciao,
> 
> i load correctly the Gettext support into: Pharo 6.1-64 Latest 
> update: #60510
> 
> In the image was load the Seaside 3.2
> Now i do:
> 
> (ConfigurationOfSeaside3 project version: #stable )
> load: #( 'Seaside-Gettext-Core' 'Seaside-Gettext-Examples').
> 
> The system erase the error: 
> NaturalLanguageTranslator class(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #domainRegistered:
> 
> TextDomainManager class>>registerDomain:
> [ self registerDomain: domainName ] in TextDomainManager 
> class>>domainInfoFor: in Block: [ self registerDomain: domainName ]
> [ self at: key put: aBlock value ] in Dictionary>>at:ifAbsentPut: in Block: [ 
> self at: key put: aBlock value ]
> Dictionary>>at:ifAbsent:
> Dictionary>>at:ifAbsentPut:
> TextDomainManager class>>domainInfoFor:
> TextDomainManager class>>registerCategoryPrefix:domain:
> WAGettextExample class>>register
> WAGettextExample class>>initialize
> Some considerations ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dario
After the error i restart the image and the:WAGettextExample 
class>>initialize  works well.

Now i don't understand what i need to do for create the relative
.potfile.

The  WAGettextExample exportmethod  
reference the:  WAGetTextExporter   but  is not in the system.

The GetTextExporter  exportTemplate create only the 
pharo.pot   file  (  ...  the relative  pharo.moworks 
fine ).


Thanks for considerations,

Dario

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using
bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that makes
html manipulation much easier

http://www.kilon-alios.com

Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an awesome
Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I thought , why
not ?
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis 
wrote:

> Docs are available in static online html format , at least the book I was
> working on
>
> Pharo By Example
>
> You can find those links here
>
> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
>
> Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and markdown files.
>
> If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where most
> Pharo related official projects are built then it should have at least pdf
> and html with online access so you can easily link to.
>
> Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar generate
> links even for paragraphs you can do an even more process linking to the
> documentation.
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
> offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:
>
>> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems
>> pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and
>> GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to find
>> #raisedTo:, so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper books
>> for particular domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if
>> a Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly you can find
>> little stuff in Stack Overflow).
>>
>> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is
>> kind of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community of
>> people who can be active contributors and members of the community, welcome
>> Pharo and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff that
>> is not already pretty similar to what they already know (being that only
>> English MOOC or online static html docs).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Offray
>>
>> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>
>> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your
>> entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code
>> organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have
>> to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP
>> friendly.
>>
>> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can
>> find implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex ,
>> welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not
>> all as well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of
>> using sort methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even
>> harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much
>> harder to understand in a bird eye view.
>>
>> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter
>> which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah
>> there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code
>> navigation a more comfortable task.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way
>>> to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
>>> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
>>> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
>>> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>>>
>>>
>>> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by
>>> Richard:
>>> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea
>>>
>>> My 2 cents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido  wrote:
 >
 > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this.
 Personally, I
 > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to
 keep it
 > current) reference page for the class library, something that
 developers can
 > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo
 comes
 > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as
 possible to
 > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
 >
 > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very
 inefficient.
 > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods
 are
 > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just
 barely
 > useful).
 >
 I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I 

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Docs are available in static online html format , at least the book I was
working on

Pharo By Example

You can find those links here

https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample

Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and markdown files.

If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where most Pharo
related official projects are built then it should have at least pdf and
html with online access so you can easily link to.

Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar generate links
even for paragraphs you can do an even more process linking to the
documentation.
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:

> The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems
> pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and
> GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to find
> #raisedTo:, so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper books
> for particular domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if
> a Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly you can find
> little stuff in Stack Overflow).
>
> My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is
> kind of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community of
> people who can be active contributors and members of the community, welcome
> Pharo and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff that
> is not already pretty similar to what they already know (being that only
> English MOOC or online static html docs).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your
> entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code
> organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have
> to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP
> friendly.
>
> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can find
> implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex , welcome
> to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not all as
> well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort
> methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even harder.
> Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much harder to
> understand in a bird eye view.
>
> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter
> which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah
> there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code
> navigation a more comfortable task.
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz 
> wrote:
>
>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way
>> to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
>> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
>> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
>> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>>
>>
>> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by
>> Richard:
>> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this.
>>> Personally, I
>>> > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to
>>> keep it
>>> > current) reference page for the class library, something that
>>> developers can
>>> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo
>>> comes
>>> > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as
>>> possible to
>>> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
>>> >
>>> > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very
>>> inefficient.
>>> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods
>>> are
>>> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just
>>> barely
>>> > useful).
>>> >
>>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way
>>> to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
>>> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
>>> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
>>> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>>>
>>> > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In
>>> fact,
>>> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle
>>> to
>>> > Pharo acceptance.
>>> >
>>> >

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[Ben Coman]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Christophe Demarey <
christophe.dema...@inria.fr> wrote:

> Hi Vitor,
>
> Le 10 oct. 2017 à 19:00, Vitor Medina Cruz  a écrit
> :
>
> « Program » folder is the default location where to install apps on
>> Windows.
>> If a user does not have admin rights, he can simply install it under its
>> home directory.
>>
>> Also there is the UAC Virtualization fiasco that complicates installing
>> upgrades.
>> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/
>> 2014-January/091645.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Could we *please* install Windows PharoLauncher into user folders?
>>
>>
>>
>> Users can choose to install Pharo Launcher where they wish.
>> We could choose another default location but not sure it is best option.
>>
>
> Nope, I don’t have any option of changing Pharo launcher installation. I
> double click the exe and receive a message telling me I need administrative
> rights. Can this be changed? It’s a deal breaker for those using Windows.
>
> For Windows, Pharo is shipped with an installer. Its only goal is to ask
> you where to install Pharo. So yes, the installation directory is
> configurable.
> Just to be sure, here the link to the installer: http://files.pharo.
> org/platform/launcher/pharo_installer-1.0.1.exe
>
>
Hi Christophe,  Can you get access to a Windows machine to try this...

1. Create a Standard User account with a password different from the
default account...
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn772452(v=ws.11).aspx

2. Log in as the standard user account.

3. Without typing another password, install PharoLauncher from

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me seems
pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code browser and
GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took me little to
find #raisedTo:, so the millage can vary. What I was missing was proper
books for particular domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't
know if a Q site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly
you can find little stuff in Stack Overflow).

My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools (Grafoscopio is
kind of this), besides tools for developers. There is a broad community
of people who can be active contributors and members of the community,
welcome Pharo and live coding a lot and don't complain that much about
stuff that is not already pretty similar to what they already know
(being that only English MOOC or online static html docs).

Cheers,

Offray


On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your
> entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with
> code organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite
> inconvenient. You have to be careful how to name your classes which
> does not sound to me very OOP friendly. 
>
> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can
> find implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex
> , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs
> if not all as well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good
> rule of using sort methods which multiplies this problem and makes
> navigation even harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method
> and messages but much harder to understand in a bird eye view.
>
> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of
> GTSpotter which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do
> so. But yeah there are more needed to be done in the department to
> make Pharo code navigation a more comfortable task. 
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz
> > wrote:
>
> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a
> fantastic way to explore the class library. If you find a
> class or method that isn’t well documented, write a comment
> and send a change request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might
> add, if you find a bug you should write a test that exercises
> the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>
>
> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by
> Richard:
> 
> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea
>
> My 2 cents.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich
> > wrote:
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido
> >
> wrote:
> >
> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on
> this. Personally, I
> > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so
> as to keep it
> > current) reference page for the class library, something
> that developers can
> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power
> of Pharo comes
> > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible
> as possible to
> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
> >
> > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is
> very inefficient.
> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes
> and methods are
> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark
> which is just barely
> > useful).
> >
> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a
> fantastic way to explore the class library. If you find a
> class or method that isn’t well documented, write a comment
> and send a change request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might
> add, if you find a bug you should write a test that exercises
> the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>
> > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to
> do. In fact,
> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real
> obstacle to
> > Pharo acceptance.
> >
> >
> >
> > horrido wrote
> >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the
> following paragraph:
> >>
> >> The problem I find with today’s developers is that they are
> rather
> >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not
> willing to adapt to
> >> new and different ways of doing 

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[Christophe Demarey]

> Le 11 oct. 2017 à 12:10, stephan  a écrit :
> 
> On 06-10-17 13:26, Christophe Demarey wrote:
>> For those wanted more info on how the adequate VM is computed, here is the 
>> process:
>> determine the image format version
>> find (and optionnaly fetch) a compatible VM (a VM able to run this image 
>> format) and run the image to get its Pharo version number
>> find (and optionnaly fetch) the appropriate VM for this specific Pharo image 
>> version. Sources files are also downloaded with the VM when applicable.
>> run the image with the appropriate VM
> 
> Thanks, Christophe.
> 
> It might be useful to regularly check for newer vms, at least the stable 
> ones. VMs are supposed to be backwards compatible.

Right.
I added an issue: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-launcher/issues/42

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Mark Bestley]

horrido  wrote:

> Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this. Personally, I
> think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep it
> current) reference page for the class library, something that developers can
> easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo comes
> from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible to
> less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
> 
> Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very inefficient.
> This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods are
> simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just barely
> useful).


> 
> I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In fact,
> it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to
> Pharo acceptance.
> 
I have a simple example compoared with python.

I want to programatically find the version number of current instance.

In Python I go to the document page e.g. 
and search for version. I get a pageful of hits which I can read and
find the snswer (ie sys.version)

For Pharo what search do I do?

You don't need to implement a seach engine Google, Bing etc can do this
and with a lot more resopuirces than Pharo can do,  but you need the
information in a restricted place e.g. one site. and it does not need to
be dynamic

The first thing I do for a new technology is RTFM.


> 
> 
> horrido wrote
> > Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following paragraph:
> > 
> > The problem I find with today's developers is that they are rather
> > closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt to
> > new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa
> > 1980–1990),
> > people didn't have a problem with trying different technologies. That's
> > why
> > I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had retired
> > from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN scientific
> > programming.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
> >>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido 
> > 
> >> horrido.hobbies@
> > 
> >>  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I received this comment from someone who complained:
> >>> 
> >>> *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time I've checked
> >>> some
> >>> SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. Of
> >>> these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official programming
> >>> guide
> >>> and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a
> >>> language.
> >>> 
> >>> https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/*
> >>> 
> >>> I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with:
> >>> 
> >>> *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation for
> >>> the
> >>> classes that form "the core library", like this one for Python
> >>> (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)*
> >>> 
> >>> It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not
> >>> even
> >>> VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint?
> >> 
> >> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is unique in that a running
> >> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ documentation (class,
> >> method,
> >> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ runnable examples in a very
> >> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used to, but this is actually
> >> better and much more powerful than any alternative.
> >> 
> >> The second answer is that there are lots of books and articles that take
> >> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is
> >> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org,
> >> http://book.seaside.st/book, http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and many
> >> more.
> >> 
>
-- 
Mark

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence & Neural Networks

[Serge Stinckwich]

I would like to advertise the TechTalk for colleagues of my lab.
They can join Discord using the invitation link ?  http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Alexandre Bergel 
wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> A TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence is soon approaching.
> The talk will be about implementing a neural networks in Pharo.
>
> It is scheduled on Tuesday 17Oct, 2017 (5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00))
>
> I need your input. Which example to you want me to use?
> - Data manipulation, or
> - Designing a small AI for a game
>
> Please answer:
> https://twitter.com/alexbergel/status/918084438197784578
>
> Some info about the event:
> https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664
> https://www.facebook.com/events/133683180530368
>
> Thanks Marcus Denker and the RMoD crew for their help in organizing it.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
>



--
Serge Stinckwich
UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1)
"Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for
machines to execute."
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] 17th Oct: Artificial Intelligence

[Marcus Denker]

It should use Youtube live Streaming again, so yes. 
(like the ones here: http://pharo.org/TechTalk )

> On 11 Oct 2017, at 14:19, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de wrote:
> 
> Will this TechTalk be recorded? I will most likely not have time at that 
> time...
> 
> Joachim
> 
> 
> Am 11.10.17 um 09:47 schrieb Marcus Denker:
>> Pharo TechTalk: Artificial Intelligence
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord.
>> Topic: Artificial Intelligence.
>> 
>> This is an interactive mini lecture about AI by Alexandre Bergel.
>> 
>> 17 Oct 2017
>> 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00)  This is 17h Paris time.
>> 
>> you can download a calendar entry here:
>> 
>> https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel  mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de
> D-71640 Ludwigsburg  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Dimitris Chloupis]

for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to have your entire
system in your fingertips but Pharo has serious issues with code
organisation and I find the lack of namespaces quite inconvenient. You have
to be careful how to name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP
friendly.

Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure you can find
implementors , senders etc but if the execution chain is complex , welcome
to spaggeti hell. But that is a problem with most other IDEs if not all as
well. Problem is in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort
methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation even harder.
Code becomes much easier to read per method and messages but much harder to
understand in a bird eye view.

Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of GTSpotter
which I have praised quite a lot and I will continue to do so. But yeah
there are more needed to be done in the department to make Pharo code
navigation a more comfortable task.

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz 
wrote:

> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to
> explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>
>
> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by Richard:
> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea
>
> My 2 cents.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido  wrote:
>> >
>> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this.
>> Personally, I
>> > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep
>> it
>> > current) reference page for the class library, something that
>> developers can
>> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo
>> comes
>> > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible
>> to
>> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
>> >
>> > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very
>> inefficient.
>> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods
>> are
>> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just
>> barely
>> > useful).
>> >
>> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way
>> to explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
>> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
>> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
>> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>>
>> > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In
>> fact,
>> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to
>> > Pharo acceptance.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > horrido wrote
>> >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following
>> paragraph:
>> >>
>> >> The problem I find with today’s developers is that they are rather
>> >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt
>> to
>> >> new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa
>> >> 1980–1990),
>> >> people didn’t have a problem with trying different technologies. That’s
>> >> why
>> >> I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had
>> retired
>> >> from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN
>> scientific
>> >> programming.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>>  On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido 
>> >>
>> >>> horrido.hobbies@
>> >>
>> >>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  I received this comment from someone who complained:
>> 
>>  *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time I’ve checked
>>  some
>>  SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo.
>> Of
>>  these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official
>> programming
>>  guide
>>  and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a
>>  language.
>> 
>>  https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/*
>> 
>>  I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with:
>> 
>>  *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation
>> for
>>  the
>>  classes that form “the core library”, like this one for Python
>>  (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)*
>> 
>>  It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not
>>  even
>>  VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint?
>> >>>
>> >>> The first answer is 

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] 17th Oct: Artificial Intelligence

[jtuc...@objektfabrik.de]

Will this TechTalk be recorded? I will most likely not have time at that 
time...


Joachim


Am 11.10.17 um 09:47 schrieb Marcus Denker:

Pharo TechTalk: Artificial Intelligence



A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord.
Topic: Artificial Intelligence.

This is an interactive mini lecture about AI by Alexandre Bergel.

17 Oct 2017
5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00)  This is 17h Paris time.

you can download a calendar entry here:

https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664



--
---
Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel  mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
Fliederweg 1                         http://www.objektfabrik.de
D-71640 Ludwigsburg  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0         Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

[Pharo-users] TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence & Neural Networks

[Alexandre Bergel]

Dear All,

A TechTalk on Artificial Intelligence is soon approaching. 
The talk will be about implementing a neural networks in Pharo.

It is scheduled on Tuesday 17Oct, 2017 (5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00))

I need your input. Which example to you want me to use? 
- Data manipulation, or
- Designing a small AI for a game

Please answer:
https://twitter.com/alexbergel/status/918084438197784578

Some info about the event:
https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664
https://www.facebook.com/events/133683180530368

Thanks Marcus Denker and the RMoD crew for their help in organizing it.

Cheers,
Alexandre

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

[Vitor Medina Cruz]

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to
explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).


I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion made by Richard:
https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea

My 2 cents.




On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich  wrote:

>
> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido  wrote:
> >
> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of pushback on this.
> Personally, I
> > think it would be very helpful to have a live (updatable, so as to keep
> it
> > current) reference page for the class library, something that developers
> can
> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of the power of Pharo
> comes
> > from the class library and we need to make it as accessible as possible
> to
> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners).
> >
> > Exploring the class library through the System Browser is very
> inefficient.
> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many classes and methods are
> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory remark which is just
> barely
> > useful).
> >
> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System Browser a fantastic way to
> explore the class library. If you find a class or method that isn’t well
> documented, write a comment and send a change request. Stef told me this
> ages ago. I might add, if you find a bug you should write a test that
> exercises the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking system).
>
> > I realize that creating a live reference page is not easy to do. In fact,
> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page is a real obstacle to
> > Pharo acceptance.
> >
> >
> >
> > horrido wrote
> >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added the following
> paragraph:
> >>
> >> The problem I find with today’s developers is that they are rather
> >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and not willing to adapt
> to
> >> new and different ways of doing things. In my generation (circa
> >> 1980–1990),
> >> people didn’t have a problem with trying different technologies. That’s
> >> why
> >> I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years ago, after I had retired
> >> from a 20-year-long career in C systems programming and FORTRAN
> scientific
> >> programming.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>  On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido 
> >>
> >>> horrido.hobbies@
> >>
> >>>  wrote:
> 
>  I received this comment from someone who complained:
> 
>  *What about the lack of documentation? From time to time I’ve checked
>  some
>  SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. Of
>  these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a free, official programming
>  guide
>  and core library reference that any serious programmer expects from a
>  language.
> 
>  https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/*
> 
>  I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he came back with:
> 
>  *Then show me a link of the free, maintained reference documentation
> for
>  the
>  classes that form “the core library”, like this one for Python
>  (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)*
> 
>  It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core library reference, not
>  even
>  VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to this complaint?
> >>>
> >>> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is unique in that a running
> >>> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ documentation (class,
> >>> method,
> >>> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ runnable examples in a very
> >>> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used to, but this is
> actually
> >>> better and much more powerful than any alternative.
> >>>
> >>> The second answer is that there are lots of books and articles that
> take
> >>> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is
> >>> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org,
> >>> http://book.seaside.st/book, http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and
> many
> >>> more.
> >>>
>  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> >
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[Vitor Medina Cruz]

Hi Christophe,

Yes, but:

1- I can’t execute it if I don’t have administrative rights — I have tried
with the provided link. Before I get to the installation directory choice,
windows prompt me an error telling me I must be an admin. It is probably
some windows policy for all exe files, I know it is possible to bypass this
as some applications do (Intellij for example), but it is usually easier to
provide a zip;

[image: Inline image 1]

2- 7-Zip can open this executable as it were a zip file, that’s how I
manage to install Pharo Launcher.



On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 4:17 AM, Christophe Demarey <
christophe.dema...@inria.fr> wrote:

> Hi Vitor,
>
> Le 10 oct. 2017 à 19:00, Vitor Medina Cruz  a écrit
> :
>
> « Program » folder is the default location where to install apps on
>> Windows.
>> If a user does not have admin rights, he can simply install it under its
>> home directory.
>>
>> Also there is the UAC Virtualization fiasco that complicates installing
>> upgrades.
>> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/
>> 2014-January/091645.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Could we *please* install Windows PharoLauncher into user folders?
>>
>>
>>
>> Users can choose to install Pharo Launcher where they wish.
>> We could choose another default location but not sure it is best option.
>>
>
> Nope, I don’t have any option of changing Pharo launcher installation. I
> double click the exe and receive a message telling me I need administrative
> rights. Can this be changed? It’s a deal breaker for those using Windows.
>
> For Windows, Pharo is shipped with an installer. Its only goal is to ask
> you where to install Pharo. So yes, the installation directory is
> configurable.
> Just to be sure, here the link to the installer: http://files.pharo.
> org/platform/launcher/pharo_installer-1.0.1.exe
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[stephan]

On 06-10-17 13:26, Christophe Demarey wrote:

For those wanted more info on how the adequate VM is computed, here is the 
process:
determine the image format version
find (and optionnaly fetch) a compatible VM (a VM able to run this image 
format) and run the image to get its Pharo version number
find (and optionnaly fetch) the appropriate VM for this specific Pharo image 
version. Sources files are also downloaded with the VM when applicable.
run the image with the appropriate VM


Thanks, Christophe.

It might be useful to regularly check for newer vms, at least the stable 
ones. VMs are supposed to be backwards compatible.


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

[stephan]

On 06-10-17 17:22, Herby Vojčík wrote:

Any chance of incorporating fixes 127 / 129?


Sure, as soon as someone tells me they are safe to
add. I am just testing Glorp with P3 and Postgres now,
and don't have the capacity to verify these changes
other than by just reading the delta.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Videos ESUG17 Day1 online

[Tudor Girba]

Thanks, Marcus!

Doru


> On Oct 11, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The videos of the first day are online:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_THfKwhzxFwbXy00YTi0uv
> 
> 
> More coming soon.
> 
>   Marcus
> 
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"We can create beautiful models in a vacuum.
But, to get them effective we have to deal with the inconvenience of reality."

[Pharo-users] Videos ESUG17 Day1 online

[Marcus Denker]

Hi,

The videos of the first day are online:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_THfKwhzxFwbXy00YTi0uv 



More coming soon.

Marcus

[Pharo-users] [TechTalk] 17th Oct: Artificial Intelligence

[Marcus Denker]

Pharo TechTalk: Artificial Intelligence



A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord.
Topic: Artificial Intelligence.

This is an interactive mini lecture about AI by Alexandre Bergel.

17 Oct 2017  
5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00)  This is 17h Paris time.

you can download a calendar entry here:

https://association.pharo.org/event-2642664

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[Christophe Demarey]

Hi Vitor, 

> Le 10 oct. 2017 à 19:00, Vitor Medina Cruz  a écrit :
> 
> « Program » folder is the default location where to install apps on Windows.
> If a user does not have admin rights, he can simply install it under its home 
> directory.
> 
>> Also there is the UAC Virtualization fiasco that complicates installing 
>> upgrades.
>> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2014-January/091645.html
>>  
>> 
> 
>> Could we *please* install Windows PharoLauncher into user folders?
> 
> 
> Users can choose to install Pharo Launcher where they wish.
> We could choose another default location but not sure it is best option.
> 
> Nope, I don’t have any option of changing Pharo launcher installation. I 
> double click the exe and receive a message telling me I need administrative 
> rights. Can this be changed? It’s a deal breaker for those using Windows.
> 
For Windows, Pharo is shipped with an installer. Its only goal is to ask you 
where to install Pharo. So yes, the installation directory is configurable.
Just to be sure, here the link to the installer: 
http://files.pharo.org/platform/launcher/pharo_installer-1.0.1.exe

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

[Christophe Demarey]

> Le 9 oct. 2017 à 15:56, Peter Uhnák  a écrit :

> I guess I hate when applications are throwing their garbage into my $HOME 
> (this also goes for VirtualBox, Eclipse, and everyone else).

Perfectly understandable.

> If I am not accessing the files directly, but they are pretty much always 
> managed by some other applications, then for me they are polluting $HOME. 
> (And yes, I sometimes do launch to image by hand, or manipulate VirtualBox by 
> hand, but that doesn't change the fact that it is not the primary way to work 
> with it.)
> 
> But no worries, I rest my case and I patch it for myself. (So no need to add 
> configuration for this either.)

No need to patch, you already have settings to configure where to store images 
and virtual machines.

Regards,
Christophe

Re: [Pharo-users] Embedded PDF viewer?

[Ben Coman]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:

>
> > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Manuel Leuenberger
> >  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I want to view a PDF within Pharo. I found that Athens has a PDF
> canvas, but I have no idea how to use it. Is there a way to view a PDF
> within Pharo, so that I can scroll, zoom, click links etc. in the PDF?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Manuel
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi manuel
> >
> > So far I do not know if we have this is Pharo.
> > I imagine that we would have to build a renderer once we will have the
> > PDF reader from Christian library.
> >
> > Stef
>
>
[Edit: Update license link]


> A renderer will have great synergy with PDFTalk, but I think a proof of
> concept can be done independently.
> I've been poking at this topic for a while looking for options.
> Coincidentally a couple of days I discovered the PDFium library.
> I haven't had time yet to give it a run, but it seems a good candidate
> since...
> * Its a successful commercial product by Foxit built into Chrome converted
> to open source with Google's backing for use in Chromium
>https://www.foxitsoftware.com/company/press.php?id=305
> * Its license is BSD style
>*https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/blob/master/LICENSE
> *
> * Although written in C++ it has a C interface
>   https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/blob/master/public/fpdfview.h
>   * Search here on  " Function: "  to skim through
>   * Proof of concept seems to only need these key functions...
>   * voidFPDF_RenderPageBitmap( FPDF_BITMAP bitmap,FPDF_PAGE
> page, ... )
>   * FPDF_BITMAPFPDFBitmap_Create( int width, int height, int
> alpha);
>   * FPDF_PAGE   FPDF_LoadPage   ( FPDF_DOCUMENT document, int
> page_index )
>   * FPDF_DOCUMENT   FPDF_LoadMemDocument   ( const void* data_buf
> ... )
>   * voidFPDF_InitLibrary ()
> * Has a concise getting started for POC...
>   https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/blob/master/docs/getting
> -started.md
> * Maybe useful fork with V8 disabled by default
>   https://github.com/klokantech/pdfium
> * Master repo here
>   https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/
>
> So Pharo might load a PDF file into a ByteArray, pass that to
> FPDF_LoadMemDocument() & FPDF_LoadPage(),
> then get a bitmap back from FPDFBitmap_Create() & FPDF_RenderPageBitmap()
> and display the result in a Pharo window.
>
> The rest of this week I'm working 12 hour days on a mine site.  I could
> try it out once I'm home, but in the meantime is anyone else keen to try
> it?
>
> cheers -ben
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Embedded PDF viewer?

[Ben Coman]

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Manuel Leuenberger
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to view a PDF within Pharo. I found that Athens has a PDF
canvas, but I have no idea how to use it. Is there a way to view a PDF
within Pharo, so that I can scroll, zoom, click links etc. in the PDF?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Manuel


On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Stephane Ducasse 
wrote:
>
> Hi manuel
>
> So far I do not know if we have this is Pharo.
> I imagine that we would have to build a renderer once we will have the
> PDF reader from Christian library.
>
> Stef

A renderer will have great synergy with PDFTalk, but I think a proof of
concept can be done independently.
I've been poking at this topic for a while looking for options.
Coincidentally a couple of days I discovered the PDFium library.
I haven't had time yet to give it a run, but it seems a good candidate
since...
* Its a successful commercial product by Foxit built into Chrome converted
to open source with Google's backing for use in Chromium
   https://www.foxitsoftware.com/company/press.php?id=305
* Its license is BSD style
   https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/tree/master/public
* Although written in C++ it has a C interface
  https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/blob/master/public/fpdfview.h
  * Search here on  " Function: "  to skim through
  * Proof of concept seems to only need these key functions...
  * voidFPDF_RenderPageBitmap( FPDF_BITMAP bitmap,FPDF_PAGE
page, ... )
  * FPDF_BITMAPFPDFBitmap_Create( int width, int height, int
alpha);
  * FPDF_PAGE   FPDF_LoadPage   ( FPDF_DOCUMENT document, int
page_index )
  * FPDF_DOCUMENT   FPDF_LoadMemDocument   ( const void* data_buf
... )
  * voidFPDF_InitLibrary ()
* Has a concise getting started for POC...
  https://github.com/hfiguiere/pdfium/blob/master/docs/
getting-started.md
* Maybe useful fork with V8 disabled by default
  https://github.com/klokantech/pdfium
* Master repo here
  https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/

So Pharo might load a PDF file into a ByteArray, pass that to
FPDF_LoadMemDocument() & FPDF_LoadPage(),
then get a bitmap back from FPDFBitmap_Create() & FPDF_RenderPageBitmap()
and display the result in a Pharo window.

The rest of this week I'm working 12 hour days on a mine site.  I could try
it out once I'm home, but in the meantime is anyone else keen to try it?

cheers -ben