Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really sold on them compared with a live system and I don't think static API docs are critical for Pharo success.
Cheers, Offray On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > Ah and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, using > bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache that > makes html manipulation much easier > > http://www.kilon-alios.com > > Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but it’s an > awesome Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom so I > thought , why not ? > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com > <mailto:kilon.al...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Docs are available in static online html format , at least the > book I was working on > > Pharo By Example > > You can find those links here > > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample > > Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html and > markdown files. > > If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of Inria where > most Pharo related official projects are built then it should have > at least pdf and html with online access so you can easily link to. > > Don’t quote me on this but I think the html output of pillar > generate links even for paragraphs you can do an even more process > linking to the documentation. > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas > <offray.l...@mutabit.com <mailto:offray.l...@mutabit.com>> wrote: > > The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. For me > seems pretty suboptimal compared to live environment with code > browser and GT-Spotter. Regarding the comment on Medium, it > also took me little to find #raisedTo:, so the millage can > vary. What I was missing was proper books for particular > domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I don't know if a > Q&A site could improve search-ability for newbies (certainly > you can find little stuff in Stack Overflow). > > My bet is about trying to create more "end user" tools > (Grafoscopio is kind of this), besides tools for developers. > There is a broad community of people who can be active > contributors and members of the community, welcome Pharo and > live coding a lot and don't complain that much about stuff > that is not already pretty similar to what they already know > (being that only English MOOC or online static html docs). > > Cheers, > > Offray > > > On 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: >> for me it is a yes and no situation, yes its very coold to >> have your entire system in your fingertips but Pharo has >> serious issues with code organisation and I find the lack of >> namespaces quite inconvenient. You have to be careful how to >> name your classes which does not sound to me very OOP friendly. >> >> Also the IDE does not handle spaggetification very well, sure >> you can find implementors , senders etc but if the execution >> chain is complex , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a >> problem with most other IDEs if not all as well. Problem is >> in this case that we have the very good rule of using sort >> methods which multiplies this problem and makes navigation >> even harder. Code becomes much easier to read per method and >> messages but much harder to understand in a bird eye view. >> >> Some of that pain has been aleviated with the introduction of >> GTSpotter which I have praised quite a lot and I will >> continue to do so. But yeah there are more needed to be done >> in the department to make Pharo code navigation a more >> comfortable task. >> >> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor Medina Cruz >> <vitormc...@gmail.com <mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System >> Browser a fantastic way to explore the class library. >> If you find a class or method that isn’t well >> documented, write a comment and send a change >> request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might add, if >> you find a bug you should write a test that exercises >> the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking >> system). >> >> >> I will reference of response of mine to a similar opinion >> made by Richard: >> >> https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much-harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM, john pfersich >> <jpfers...@gmail.com <mailto:jpfers...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, horrido >> <horrido.hobb...@gmail.com >> <mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Interestingly, I'm getting a fair amount of >> pushback on this. Personally, I >> > think it would be very helpful to have a live >> (updatable, so as to keep it >> > current) reference page for the class library, >> something that developers can >> > easily look up what they need. After all, most of >> the power of Pharo comes >> > from the class library and we need to make it as >> accessible as possible to >> > less experienced Pharoers (i.e., beginners). >> > >> > Exploring the class library through the System >> Browser is very inefficient. >> > This is further exacerbated by the fact that many >> classes and methods are >> > simply not well-documented (containing a cursory >> remark which is just barely >> > useful). >> > >> I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but I find the System >> Browser a fantastic way to explore the class library. >> If you find a class or method that isn’t well >> documented, write a comment and send a change >> request. Stef told me this ages ago. I might add, if >> you find a bug you should write a test that exercises >> the bug and submit it on fogbugz (the bug tracking >> system). >> >> > I realize that creating a live reference page is >> not easy to do. In fact, >> > it's a lot of work. But the absence of such a page >> is a real obstacle to >> > Pharo acceptance. >> > >> > >> > >> > horrido wrote >> >> Thanks. I gave your answer verbatim. I also added >> the following paragraph: >> >> >> >> The problem I find with today’s developers is that >> they are rather >> >> closed-minded. They are rigid and inflexible, and >> not willing to adapt to >> >> new and different ways of doing things. In my >> generation (circa >> >> 1980–1990), >> >> people didn’t have a problem with trying different >> technologies. That’s >> >> why >> >> I had no issue with learning Smalltalk 10 years >> ago, after I had retired >> >> from a 20-year-long career in C systems >> programming and FORTRAN scientific >> >> programming. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote >> >>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at 14:54, horrido < >> >> >> >>> horrido.hobbies@ >> >> >> >>> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> I received this comment from someone who complained: >> >>>> >> >>>> *What about the lack of documentation? From time >> to time I’ve checked >> >>>> some >> >>>> SmallTalk implementations like Squeak, >> GNU-Smalltalk and now Pharo. Of >> >>>> these, only GNU-SmallTalk appears to have a >> free, official programming >> >>>> guide >> >>>> and core library reference that any serious >> programmer expects from a >> >>>> language. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> https://www.gnu.org/software/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* >> >>>> >> >>>> I pointed to Pharo's documentation but then he >> came back with: >> >>>> >> >>>> *Then show me a link of the free, maintained >> reference documentation for >> >>>> the >> >>>> classes that form “the core library”, like this >> one for Python >> >>>> (https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html)* >> <https://docs.python.org/3/library/index.html%29*> >> >>>> >> >>>> It's true, most Smalltalks do not have a core >> library reference, not >> >>>> even >> >>>> VisualWorks! So what is the proper response to >> this complaint? >> >>> >> >>> The first answer is that Pharo/Smalltalk is >> unique in that a running >> >>> system/IDE contains _all_ source code, _all_ >> documentation (class, >> >>> method, >> >>> help, tutorial), _all_ unit tests and _all_ >> runnable examples in a very >> >>> easy, accessible way. It takes some getting used >> to, but this is actually >> >>> better and much more powerful than any alternative. >> >>> >> >>> The second answer is that there are lots of books >> and articles that take >> >>> the classic/structured book/paper approach. There is >> >>> http://books.pharo.org, http://themoosebook.org, >> >>> http://book.seaside.st/book, >> http://medium.com/concerning-pharo and many >> >>> more. >> >>> >> >>>> Thanks. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Sent from: >> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from: >> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from: >> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >> >> >
