[Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?

[PBK Research]

Hello!
 
I have a problem with running Pharo 2.0 on one of my machines. I have two
machines, both running Windows XP with SP3. On one of them I have a
successful load of Pharo (actually it's a distribution of the Moose system,
but that is just an application built on Pharo 2.0). This loads successfully
when I double click on pharo.exe. On the other machine, the same action
produces an immediate message: 'Pharo.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close'. Just in case this was some problem with Moose, I have just
downloaded the latest one-click installation of Pharo 2.0 for Windows. This
displays exactly the same behaviour - an immediate fail when I try to start
it.
 
I have tried to work out what may be different between the two machines. The
one which will run Pharo has an Intel Celeron processor, the other an AMD
Athlon XP (yes, they are both pretty ancient!), but I can't see why that
should make any difference. The one curious thing is that Windows Explorer
displays the type of the Pharo2.0.image file as 'Squeak image file'. There
is an old version of Squeak installed on that machine; could that have any
effect?
 
I am a bit flummoxed by all this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how
to diagnose the problem?
 
Many thanks
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?

[PBK Research]

Thanks. I am using the latest one-click distribution of Pharo, downloaded
today from the Pharo website. Presumably that should have the latest VM?

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 13:53
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 14:18, PBK Research  wrote:



Hello!
 
I have a problem with running Pharo 2.0 on one of my machines. I have two
machines, both running Windows XP with SP3. On one of them I have a
successful load of Pharo (actually it's a distribution of the Moose system,
but that is just an application built on Pharo 2.0). This loads successfully
when I double click on pharo.exe. On the other machine, the same action
produces an immediate message: 'Pharo.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close'. Just in case this was some problem with Moose, I have just
downloaded the latest one-click installation of Pharo 2.0 for Windows. This
displays exactly the same behaviour - an immediate fail when I try to start
it.
 
I have tried to work out what may be different between the two machines. The
one which will run Pharo has an Intel Celeron processor, the other an AMD
Athlon XP (yes, they are both pretty ancient!), but I can't see why that
should make any difference. The one curious thing is that Windows Explorer
displays the type of the Pharo2.0.image file as 'Squeak image file'. There
is an old version of Squeak installed on that machine; could that have any
effect?
 
I am a bit flummoxed by all this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how
to diagnose the problem?
 


If you using too old VM , it simply does not supports an image format, which
pharo 2.0 uses.
But there could be different reasons.. a first step towards to solution is
to use VM for pharo, which we maintain and use.. 
 
 

Many thanks
 
Peter Kenny




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 

Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?

[PBK Research]

OK. I opened a command line prompt, cd to Pharo 2.0 directory (created in
today's download), enter 'pharo.exe pharo2.0.image'. Same result - immediate
failure. I had previously changed the association of the image file to the
newly downloaded pharo.exe. So I think I must be using the VM in today's
download.

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 14:48
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 15:31, PBK Research  wrote:



Thanks. I am using the latest one-click distribution of Pharo, downloaded
today from the Pharo website. Presumably that should have the latest VM?


yes, but if .image file extension associated with wrong version of VM
binary, which you installed previously (as you mentioned), it won't
automagically use proper one.

 unless you run vm from command line e.g.:

pharo.exe myimage.image

or change the association to use different vm.



  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 13:53
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 14:18, PBK Research  wrote:



Hello!
 
I have a problem with running Pharo 2.0 on one of my machines. I have two
machines, both running Windows XP with SP3. On one of them I have a
successful load of Pharo (actually it's a distribution of the Moose system,
but that is just an application built on Pharo 2.0). This loads successfully
when I double click on pharo.exe. On the other machine, the same action
produces an immediate message: 'Pharo.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close'. Just in case this was some problem with Moose, I have just
downloaded the latest one-click installation of Pharo 2.0 for Windows. This
displays exactly the same behaviour - an immediate fail when I try to start
it.
 
I have tried to work out what may be different between the two machines. The
one which will run Pharo has an Intel Celeron processor, the other an AMD
Athlon XP (yes, they are both pretty ancient!), but I can't see why that
should make any difference. The one curious thing is that Windows Explorer
displays the type of the Pharo2.0.image file as 'Squeak image file'. There
is an old version of Squeak installed on that machine; could that have any
effect?
 
I am a bit flummoxed by all this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how
to diagnose the problem?
 


If you using too old VM , it simply does not supports an image format, which
pharo 2.0 uses.
But there could be different reasons.. a first step towards to solution is
to use VM for pharo, which we maintain and use.. 
 
 

Many thanks
 
Peter Kenny




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 

Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?

[PBK Research]

Just a little more information. Out of curiosity, I downloaded Pharo 3.0 and
tried it, with the same result - message from Windows says 'Pharo.exe has
encountered a problem and needs to close'. To complete the set, I downloaded
Pharo 1.4 and tried it. This time it failed saying 'CogVM.exe has
encoun'. I presume all versions now use the Cog VM, and it looks as
though this machine just won't run it. Is there still a 'traditional' VM I
can use instead of Cog? It might not be practical, but it would at least
prove that it is a VM problem. Is there any information about Cog giving
problems with AMD processors?

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
PBK Research
Sent: 07 November 2013 15:07
To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome'
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?


OK. I opened a command line prompt, cd to Pharo 2.0 directory (created in
today's download), enter 'pharo.exe pharo2.0.image'. Same result - immediate
failure. I had previously changed the association of the image file to the
newly downloaded pharo.exe. So I think I must be using the VM in today's
download.

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 14:48
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 15:31, PBK Research  wrote:



Thanks. I am using the latest one-click distribution of Pharo, downloaded
today from the Pharo website. Presumably that should have the latest VM?


yes, but if .image file extension associated with wrong version of VM
binary, which you installed previously (as you mentioned), it won't
automagically use proper one.

 unless you run vm from command line e.g.:

pharo.exe myimage.image

or change the association to use different vm.



  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 13:53
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 14:18, PBK Research  wrote:



Hello!
 
I have a problem with running Pharo 2.0 on one of my machines. I have two
machines, both running Windows XP with SP3. On one of them I have a
successful load of Pharo (actually it's a distribution of the Moose system,
but that is just an application built on Pharo 2.0). This loads successfully
when I double click on pharo.exe. On the other machine, the same action
produces an immediate message: 'Pharo.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close'. Just in case this was some problem with Moose, I have just
downloaded the latest one-click installation of Pharo 2.0 for Windows. This
displays exactly the same behaviour - an immediate fail when I try to start
it.
 
I have tried to work out what may be different between the two machines. The
one which will run Pharo has an Intel Celeron processor, the other an AMD
Athlon XP (yes, they are both pretty ancient!), but I can't see why that
should make any difference. The one curious thing is that Windows Explorer
displays the type of the Pharo2.0.image file as 'Squeak image file'. There
is an old version of Squeak installed on that machine; could that have any
effect?
 
I am a bit flummoxed by all this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how
to diagnose the problem?
 


If you using too old VM , it simply does not supports an image format, which
pharo 2.0 uses.
But there could be different reasons.. a first step towards to solution is
to use VM for pharo, which we maintain and use.. 
 
 

Many thanks
 
Peter Kenny




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 

Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?

[PBK Research]

Well, it does run on my second (and even older) machine with an Intel
Celeron processor. I have in store a very old download of Pharo (version
1.1, dated July 2010), which I have loaded and run successfully on the
troublesome machine. I shall probably have to give up on this machine and
switch to my reserve, unless anyone has a brilliant idea to fix it. Thanks
for the help.

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 22:49
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?


Well, it could be that your machine CPU too old and don't supports
instructions (like SSE)
which VM compiled with.



On 7 November 2013 19:44, PBK Research  wrote:



Just a little more information. Out of curiosity, I downloaded Pharo 3.0 and
tried it, with the same result - message from Windows says 'Pharo.exe has
encountered a problem and needs to close'. To complete the set, I downloaded
Pharo 1.4 and tried it. This time it failed saying 'CogVM.exe has
encoun'. I presume all versions now use the Cog VM, and it looks as
though this machine just won't run it. Is there still a 'traditional' VM I
can use instead of Cog? It might not be practical, but it would at least
prove that it is a VM problem. Is there any information about Cog giving
problems with AMD processors?

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
PBK Research
Sent: 07 November 2013 15:07 

To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome'
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?


OK. I opened a command line prompt, cd to Pharo 2.0 directory (created in
today's download), enter 'pharo.exe pharo2.0.image'. Same result - immediate
failure. I had previously changed the association of the image file to the
newly downloaded pharo.exe. So I think I must be using the VM in today's
download.

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 14:48
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 15:31, PBK Research  wrote:



Thanks. I am using the latest one-click distribution of Pharo, downloaded
today from the Pharo website. Presumably that should have the latest VM?


yes, but if .image file extension associated with wrong version of VM
binary, which you installed previously (as you mentioned), it won't
automagically use proper one.

 unless you run vm from command line e.g.:

pharo.exe myimage.image

or change the association to use different vm.



  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Igor Stasenko
Sent: 07 November 2013 13:53
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Why won't my Pharo download run?





On 7 November 2013 14:18, PBK Research  wrote:



Hello!
 
I have a problem with running Pharo 2.0 on one of my machines. I have two
machines, both running Windows XP with SP3. On one of them I have a
successful load of Pharo (actually it's a distribution of the Moose system,
but that is just an application built on Pharo 2.0). This loads successfully
when I double click on pharo.exe. On the other machine, the same action
produces an immediate message: 'Pharo.exe has encountered a problem and
needs to close'. Just in case this was some problem with Moose, I have just
downloaded the latest one-click installation of Pharo 2.0 for Windows. This
displays exactly the same behaviour - an immediate fail when I try to start
it.
 
I have tried to work out what may be different between the two machines. The
one which will run Pharo has an Intel Celeron processor, the other an AMD
Athlon XP (yes, they are both pretty ancient!), but I can't see why that
should make any difference. The one curious thing is that Windows Explorer
displays the type of the Pharo2.0.image file as 'Squeak image file'. There
is an old version of Squeak installed on that machine; could that have any
effect?
 
I am a bit flummoxed by all this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how
to diagnose the problem?
 


If you using too old VM , it simply does not supports an image format, which
pharo 2.0 uses.
But there could be different reasons.. a first step towards to solution is
to use VM for pharo, which we maintain and use.. 
 
 

Many thanks
 
Peter Kenny




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 




-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko. 

Re: [Pharo-users] Is there any fundamental technical barrier tocompiling to JVM byte codes?

[PBK Research]

If the question is whether there is anything fundamental about /Smalltalk/
that prevents compiling to JVM, we have proof to the contrary today in the
announcement on comp.lang.smalltalk of Gravel Smalltalk, which aims to run
ANSI Smalltalk on the JVM. It is clearly still in alpha stage, and the
developers say they do not expect to implement become: or thisContext.
Whether this would cripple Pharo is beyond my knowledge. Further information
at https://github.com/gravel-st/gravel .

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Andy Burnett
Sent: 22 December 2013 17:38
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: [Pharo-users] Is there any fundamental technical barrier
tocompiling to JVM byte codes?

I am sure it would be a huge amount of work, and may not be a good idea at
all.

However, given the number of dynamic languages that now compile to JVM byte
codes, I am curious whether there is anything about Pharo that would make
this impossible?

Cheers
Andy

[Pharo-users] Pharo on Android - is it available?

[PBK Research]

I would like to experiment with Pharo on Android - I have just acquired an
Android tablet, and I do not want to learn another development language to
produce my own simple apps. After a Google search, I have found
http://code.google.com/p/squeakvm-tablet/, which says it is available, at
least as a beta. The site says that downloads from there are deprecated, and
gives a link to https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/PharoDroid/ for the
download. This link seems to be dead, however. Is there any source of a
download of Pharo for Android (on an ARM-designed processor)? And does it
make sense to try to develop apps using Pharo (I know about Dr Geo, so I
suppose the answer is yes)?
 
Many thanks for help
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: Re: Pharo on Android - is it available?

[PBK Research]

Hilaire (and Dmitry)

Many thanks for your efforts on my behalf. I have looked at the CogDroid
page, but was discouraged by the prominent warning that "This project is
currently disabled." I am not an expert in combining VM files and images; if
it involves anything more complicated than downloading a one-click image, it
is beyond my ability. I think the comments on the SqueakVM-tablet site are
unduly optimistic.

For the time being I shall follow up the helpful comments from kilon alios
and others that Amber Smalltalk may be the way to go.

Thanks again

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Hilaire Fernandes
Sent: 01 January 2014 16:26
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: [Pharo-users] Fwd: Re: Pharo on Android - is it available?

Forwarding this message from Dmitry.

Hilaire


 Message original 
Sujet:  Re: Pharo on Android - is it available?
Date :  Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:15:07 -0500
De :Dmitry Golubovsky 
Pour :  Hilaire Fernandes 



Hilaire,

I see the question asked by Peter, but all mail links are completely
mangled, so I am replying to you; in case you have a correct email for Peter
please forward my response to him.

I believe that the latest binary builds are at
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/CogDroid/ which are bare VMs
(need an image). PharoDroid (with integrated image) was indeed never ported
properly from the old INRIA build site.

I think that information at
http://code.google.com/p/squeakvm-tablet/w/list still applies more or less,
also how to integrate an image into an apk if thats needed.

The source repo is at

https://gitorious.org/cogvm/dmg-blessed/

and I haven't done any commits to it recently (the latest was at Thursday
October 04 2012). So images at Inria should be fine to start with although
build from sources is always preferred. It's worh mentionig that Pharo 1.x
may be needed to perform the build, and given that Pharo downloading methods
have changed since the last time I was working on this project some extra
effort may be needed. Also, if serious development is planned, platform
codes in the said gitorious repo need to be merged with the current platform
codes in other repos (which?), and the whole build procedure needs more
attention.

Also worth mentioning that only features of Android up to 2.x are used in
this build. I have no idea whether recent NDK is compatible, so if the older
versions are no longer available, some more effort may be needed to bring
this all up to date.

Hope this helps.

Happy New Year!

Thanks.

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Hilaire Fernandes
 wrote:
>> On 31 Dec 2013, at 17:44, PBK Research > <mailto:pe...@pbkresearch.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to experiment with Pharo on Android - I have just 
>>> acquired an Android tablet, and I do not want to learn another 
>>> development language to produce my own simple apps. After a Google 
>>> search, I have found http://code.google.com/p/squeakvm-tablet/, 
>>> which says it is available, at least as a beta. The site says that 
>>> downloads from there are deprecated, and gives a link to 
>>> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/PharoDroid/ for the download. 
>>> This link seems to be dead, however. Is there any source of a 
>>> download of Pharo for Android (on an ARM-designed processor)? And 
>>> does it make sense to try to develop apps using Pharo (I know about 
>>> Dr Geo, so I suppose the answer is yes)?
>>>
>>> Many thanks for help
>>>
>>> Peter Kenny
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu



--
Dmitry Golubovsky

Anywhere on the Web

[Pharo-users] Could Pharo be more idiot-proof?

[PBK Research]

I have just done something stupid, so this is just letting off steam (and
maybe looking for someone else to blame!).
 
I have been playing with Moose (version 4.8), mainly because I want to
experiment with PetitParser. I am struggling a bit, but getting somewhere I
think. I have been trying out a lot of snippets in a workspace, before
getting down to producing proper code. In a fit of madness, thinking I was
closing a debugger window, I closed the workspace window. It looks as though
I have lost the contents, though I can probably reconstruct them from the
changes file. My main Smalltalk experience is with Dolphin Smalltalk, and
there, if you try to close a workspace, it asks if you want to save the
contents first. Could Pharo have something similar? - or am I the only idiot
to do this?
 
As a supplementary point, I am trying to use PetitParser to parse natural
language. From the examples it is clear that PP is designed with formal
languages in mind. Am I wasting my time using it on natural languages? Has
anyone else tried this?
 
Thanks for any advice
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Could Pharo be more idiot-proof?

[PBK Research]

Ben
 
Brilliant! Many thanks, it's all there! I just need to find my way around
Pharo - there is so much there.
 
Peter

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Benjamin
Sent: 03 February 2014 10:38
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Could Pharo be more idiot-proof?


Open a new workspace. 
In the title bar there is a small black triangle (Window menu).

Close to the end, you should find 'Previous contents'
With a bit of luck, it should be there


Ben 

On 03 Feb 2014, at 11:35, PBK Research  wrote:


I have just done something stupid, so this is just letting off steam (and
maybe looking for someone else to blame!).
 
I have been playing with Moose (version 4.8), mainly because I want to
experiment with PetitParser. I am struggling a bit, but getting somewhere I
think. I have been trying out a lot of snippets in a workspace, before
getting down to producing proper code. In a fit of madness, thinking I was
closing a debugger window, I closed the workspace window. It looks as though
I have lost the contents, though I can probably reconstruct them from the
changes file. My main Smalltalk experience is with Dolphin Smalltalk, and
there, if you try to close a workspace, it asks if you want to save the
contents first. Could Pharo have something similar? - or am I the only idiot
to do this?
 
As a supplementary point, I am trying to use PetitParser to parse natural
language. From the examples it is clear that PP is designed with formal
languages in mind. Am I wasting my time using it on natural languages? Has
anyone else tried this?
 
Thanks for any advice
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Could Pharo be more idiot-proof?

[PBK Research]

Daniel

Thanks for the comments. I have tried Prolog too, but didn't get very far. I
am hoping to deal with pretty arbitrary inputs (typically news stories from
internet newspapers etc), but initially just searching for key words and
phrases. So far I have used PP to construct a pretty good tokeniser to
identify words, sentences, punctuation etc, which was not very difficult. It
may be that I won't get very far, but I'm retired and I do this for fun, so
what the heck.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Daniel Lyons
Sent: 03 February 2014 18:52
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Could Pharo be more idiot-proof?


PBK Research writes:
> As a supplementary point, I am trying to use PetitParser to parse 
> natural language. From the examples it is clear that PP is designed 
> with formal languages in mind. Am I wasting my time using it on 
> natural languages? Has anyone else tried this?

What are you trying to do with natural language? Do you have highly regular
input and a somewhat restricted domain? I have used Prolog DCGs to mess
around with this kind of thing, and if you have a lot of control over the
input and your expectations you can make progress with a tool for formal
languages, but if you want to do something sophisticated or support
arbitrary inputs, you're probably wasting your time.

--
Daniel Lyons

[Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

[PBK Research]

Hello All
 
Not sure whether this is the right forum for this question - please excuse
and point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.
 
I have been playing with Moose 4.8, downloaded last October, mainly because
I am interested in PetitParser. I have been constructing fairly trivial
parsers to get to understand the system. I took as an example a typical HTML
tag, i.e. any text enclosed in angle brackets <>. My first attempt was:
 
($< asParser, $> asParser not star, $> asParser).
 
This seemed to send the parser into a loop, except in the case where there
was no text between the brackets. Floundering around, I tried:
 
($< asParser, (PPPredicateObjectParser anyExceptAnyOf: '>') star, $>
asParser).
 
This worked as expected, but I was not happy with the apparent clumsiness of
the middle term. So I tried:
 
($< asParser, (PPPredicateObjectParser char: $>) not star, $> asParser).
 
This again sent the parser into a loop.
 
It looks as though I have some fundamental misunderstanding of the function
of 'not' in a parser, or else it is not working as specified. Could someone
kindly explain to an inquisitive idiot what is going wrong?
 
Many thanks in advance
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

[PBK Research]

Doru
 
Many thanks. I knew it must be something simple. I was nearly there, because
I had tried 'negated' as an alternative to 'not'.
 
You may regret the invitation in your last line. The documentation is rather
sparse, so there may well be more questions. I shall always try to solve it
myself first, of course.
 
Thanks also for the speedy answer - on a Saturday afternoon too!
 
Peter

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Tudor Girba
Sent: 22 February 2014 16:38
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser


Hi, 

For Moose related questions, there exists a dedicated mailing list:
http://www.moosetechnology.org/about/contact


Related to your problem, "not" does consume the input. You want to use
"negate", which is implemented as:
PPParser>>negate
"Answer a new parser consumes any input token but the receiver." 
^ self not , #any asParser ==> #second

Keep the questions flowing :)

Cheers,
Doru


On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 5:25 PM, PBK Research 
wrote:



Hello All
 
Not sure whether this is the right forum for this question - please excuse
and point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.
 
I have been playing with Moose 4.8, downloaded last October, mainly because
I am interested in PetitParser. I have been constructing fairly trivial
parsers to get to understand the system. I took as an example a typical HTML
tag, i.e. any text enclosed in angle brackets <>. My first attempt was:
 
($< asParser, $> asParser not star, $> asParser).
 
This seemed to send the parser into a loop, except in the case where there
was no text between the brackets. Floundering around, I tried:
 

($< asParser, (PPPredicateObjectParser anyExceptAnyOf: '>') star, $>
asParser).
 
This worked as expected, but I was not happy with the apparent clumsiness of
the middle term. So I tried:
 

($< asParser, (PPPredicateObjectParser char: $>) not star, $> asParser).
 
This again sent the parser into a loop.
 
It looks as though I have some fundamental misunderstanding of the function
of 'not' in a parser, or else it is not working as specified. Could someone
kindly explain to an inquisitive idiot what is going wrong?
 
Many thanks in advance
 
Peter Kenny




-- 

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

[PBK Research]

Damien

No, I haven't yet looked at that book. My main sources on PetitParser have
been:
a. Chapter 14 in the Moose Book;
b. Two lengthy blog posts by Lukas Renggli referenced in the Moose
documentation;
c. The chapter in Lukas Renggli's PhD thesis.
It may be unfair to call this 'sparse'; the problem is perhaps my inability
to understand it. If you think 'Deep into Pharo' will give me more than
these sources, I may well get hold of it.

Thanks for your help

Peter Kenny


-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Damien Cassou
Sent: 24 February 2014 09:33
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 6:00 PM, PBK Research 
wrote:
> The documentation is rather sparse


did you read the dedicated book chapter of Deep into Pharo?
http://deepintopharo.com/

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing
enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

[PBK Research]

Damien

I have downloaded and skimmed through the chapter on PetitParser. It looks
fine to me, it is a clear explanation of what PP does, but it does not go
beyond what I have already found in the sources I mentioned. I recognised
all the worked examples (expression parser, JSON parser etc.) as things I
had come across before. I am not sure I had seen the section on testing
before; that may mean I had skipped it because I am generally rather lazy
about programming tests.

What is clear to me, however, is that I was very unfair to say the
documentation is sparse. As soon as I looked again at the Moose Book
chapter, I saw an example which explained exactly the issue that tripped me
up on 'not' vs. 'negate'. In other words, the only problem with the
documentation is that I had not read it properly. I shall press on with my
experiments, but I shall take good care to read everything I can find before
raising queries. 

Thanks again

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Damien Cassou
Sent: 24 February 2014 12:13
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Moose: Problem in Petit Parser

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:09 PM, PBK Research 
wrote:
> c. The chapter in Lukas Renggli's PhD thesis.
> It may be unfair to call this 'sparse'; the problem is perhaps my 
> inability to understand it. If you think 'Deep into Pharo' will give 
> me more than these sources, I may well get hold of it.


please have a look at this chapter and please send us feedback (or better
send us a patch for the chapter, I can give you access to the book sources).

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing
enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-users] What's wrong whith this code?

[PBK Research]

Note however that the first example used in the method comment, which
displays a static label, does work. There is something wrong in the method
of computing the changing label in the second example. I can't follow the
code here, so I can't see the error, but it should be clear where to look.
 
Peter Kenny

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Nicolai Hess
Sent: 19 March 2014 08:56
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] What's wrong whith this code?


2014-03-19 8:17 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Dominicus
:


Bernat Romagosa  writes:

> ouch, I added a . in the middle, sorry!
>
> elements := #('eins' 'zwei' 'drei' 'vier').
> elements
> do: [ :element | (Delay forSeconds: 2) wait ]
> displayingProgress: [ :element | 'Working on', element asString ].
>
> 2014-03-18 9:55 GMT+01:00 Bernat Romagosa
> :
>
> Without having tried it, I think you're missing a #wait message in
> there:
>
>
>
> elements := #('eins' 'zwei' 'drei' 'vier').
> elements do: [ :element | (Delay forSeconds: 2) wait ].
>
> displayingProgress: [ :element | 'Working on', element asString ].

Sorry even with that I do not see the 'Working on ' message.
It's just a progress bar with nothing else. No "Working on" anywhere.

Regards
Friedrich





It doesn't work anymore. (This worked in Pharo 1.4)
In the comment of Collection>>do:displayingProgress:
is a example, that doesn't work:
Smalltalk allClasses 
do:[:aClass| (Delay forMilliseconds: 1) wait]
displayingProgress:[:aClass| 'Processing ', aClass name].


This should show the class names but it shows
only a single progressbar.

Re: [Pharo-users] What's wrong whith this code?

[PBK Research]

Well I did some experiments, and I seem to have a solution. In the method
Collection>>do:displayingProgress:every:, you will find (three lines from
the end) the line:
 ifFalse: [ProgressNotification
signal: '' extra: (oldLabel := newLabel)].

If you replace that with:

 ifFalse: [bar label: (oldLabel :=
newLabel)].

you will find that the examples of changing labels will work. I haven't
tested this as thoroughly as I should, so there may be other consequences,
but clearly this is where the problem lies. 

 

Peter Kenny


  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
PBK Research
Sent: 19 March 2014 09:09
To: nicolaih...@web.de; 'Any question about pharo is welcome'
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] What's wrong whith this code?


Note however that the first example used in the method comment, which
displays a static label, does work. There is something wrong in the method
of computing the changing label in the second example. I can't follow the
code here, so I can't see the error, but it should be clear where to look.
 
Peter Kenny

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Nicolai Hess
Sent: 19 March 2014 08:56
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] What's wrong whith this code?


2014-03-19 8:17 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Dominicus
:


Bernat Romagosa  writes:

> ouch, I added a . in the middle, sorry!
>
> elements := #('eins' 'zwei' 'drei' 'vier').
> elements
> do: [ :element | (Delay forSeconds: 2) wait ]
> displayingProgress: [ :element | 'Working on', element asString ].
>
> 2014-03-18 9:55 GMT+01:00 Bernat Romagosa
> :
>
> Without having tried it, I think you're missing a #wait message in
> there:
>
>
>
> elements := #('eins' 'zwei' 'drei' 'vier').
> elements do: [ :element | (Delay forSeconds: 2) wait ].
>
> displayingProgress: [ :element | 'Working on', element asString ].

Sorry even with that I do not see the 'Working on ' message.
It's just a progress bar with nothing else. No "Working on" anywhere.

Regards
Friedrich





It doesn't work anymore. (This worked in Pharo 1.4)
In the comment of Collection>>do:displayingProgress:
is a example, that doesn't work:
Smalltalk allClasses 
do:[:aClass| (Delay forMilliseconds: 1) wait]
displayingProgress:[:aClass| 'Processing ', aClass name].


This should show the class names but it shows
only a single progressbar.

Re: [Pharo-users] Java "this" against our "thisContext"

[PBK Research]

It's not a direct answer, but an interesting side-light: The recent
announcement of Gravel Smalltalk, billed as Smalltalk for the Java VM (
 https://github.com/gravel-st/gravel)
mentions as 'common Smalltalk features that we probably won't support' both
become: and thisContext. Presumably omitted because they can't be done in
Java.
 
Peter Kenny

  _  

From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Sergi Reyner
Sent: 25 March 2014 10:27
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: [Pharo-users] Java "this" against our "thisContext"


Hi everyone, 

I had a pretty heated IRC debate yesterday about how Smalltalk´s reflection
facilities are superior to those of Java, in the sense that they operate at
a higher level (I started it pasting one of those crazy snippets that got
posted to the list xD). It somehow slowly degenerated into someone trying to
convince me that Java's "this" operator is equivalent to "thisContext",
instead of "self".

My intuition says that´s wrong, but I´d very much like someone familiar with
both to offer an explanation to this poor unenlightened person :D

Cheers,
Sergi

[Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Hello
 
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this. I am trying to understand how
Magritte works, initially by following the first example in Ch. 26.2 of the
Seaside book. I have started with a fresh download of Pharo 3.0, and I have
installed Magritte 3 and Seaside 3. I realise that the Seaside book example
is based on Magritte 2, so I have made necessary changes to the example code
(descriptions are on the instance side, insert 
pragmas, change #description to #magritteDescription). All works well up to
the point where I try to generate the Seaside editor. This fails because the
code:
Address example1 asComponent
produces a 'does not understand' message for #asComponent. I have not been
able to work through all of Seaside to see where this method is defined, and
I am at a bit of a loss. I know this is rather elementary, but could someone
give me a pointer?
 
Also, if Magritte 3 is now the norm, will the Seaside book examples be
updated to reflect this?
 
Thanks in advance for any help
 
Peter Kenny

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Hi Stephan

Many thanks. I was missing the Magritte-Seaside component. The problem is
now fixed. No doubt I will find others!

I started from scratch and loaded all the packages because I wanted to
understand how these things work, and because I needed a combination of
things installed - I have also loaded Voyage and PetitParser, hoping to use
all these things together. I did not expect to find all of these in a
pre-built image - maybe I was wrong.

Many thanks also for the speedy response. I posted my question and went to
bed. I did not expect to get an answer after midnight. It is interesting to
see that others work even stranger hours than I do!

Thanks also to others who commented. To Stepharo: I did not mean to sound
critical. I was wondering if an updated version already exists and I have
not yet found it. I know quite a bit about Smalltalk from Dolphin, but I am
new to Pharo and I feel like a blind man stumbling about. There are so many
packages around, and I do not understand what most of them do.

Could I just try one supplementary question about using Magritte. The paper
'Magritte - A Meta-Driven Approach to Empower Developers and End Users' by
Lukas Renggli, Stephane Ducasse and Adrian Kuhn has a section 3.2 on
building an editor, which shows how the same description can generate an
editor in Seaside or in Morphic Squeak (!). I know that #asComponent will
generate the Seaside version; is there a method #asMorph which will give the
morphic version as easily, or if not how do I get an editor as a Pharo
window?

Thanks again for the help.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Stephan Eggermont
Sent: 13 May 2014 00:22
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

Hi Peter

That sounds like you have independently installed Seaside and Magritte.
You might miss the part connecting them together. Seaside can be used
without Magritte, and Magritte without Seaside. That happens if you just 
install stable Seaside and stable Magritte from the configuration browser.

Can you check if you have Magritte-Seaside loaded?
That is in the Seaside group of Magritte.
If not, you need the other option in the configuration browser,
just loading the configuration of Magritte3.
Then in a workspace, do-it

(ConfigurationOfMagritte3 project version: #stable) load: 'Seaside'. 

A faster way to start can be to use one of the images from
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/
Pier, QCMagritte and Forum all come with both Magritte and Seaside 
preloaded.

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Stephan

Thanks. I have Magritte-Morph in my image, but I wonder if anyone has
debugged it. I send asMagritteMorph to a Magritte description and I get a
MAContainerMorph, which is OK. Try sending openInWorld to this, and it falls
over in MADescriptionMorph>>buildMorph, which calls
MADescriptionMorph>>rectangleMorph, which tries to create an instance of the
non-existent class RectangleMorph. 

I have tried to trace this back, and it is true that my original Pharo 3.0
image, downloaded on 30 Apr 2014, does not have the class RectangleMorph. I
have looked at older images, and the class exists. Maybe my mistake was to
try to use the Pharo 3.0 image the day it was announced. Perhaps I would be
better off using one of the pre-packed images you mention. My only worry is
that there is a list of dozens of contributions on
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/, and unless you have far more
knowledge than I have it is impossible to know which might be helpful. For
now I will follow your hint and use the Forum image.

Thanks again for your help.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Stephan Eggermont
Sent: 14 May 2014 00:25
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

Peter wrote:

>is there a method #asMorph which will give the 
>morphic version as easily, or if not how do I get an editor as a Pharo 
>window? 

There is asMagritteMorph yes, defined in Magritte-Morph.
You might need to load that additionally (it is loaded in the Forum image).

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Esteban

Well I don't have /such/ an old version. As I said, I downloaded the new
Pharo 3.0 on 30 April. On 5 May I opened the configuration browser and
loaded ConfigurationOfMagritte3. So presumably what I have is at most 9 days
old. One of the frustrations of using Pharo is that everything seems to be
always changing.

I have in fact sorted it out by looking at the Forum image, following
Stephan's suggestion. There I found that the call to RectangleMorph class
has become BorderedMorph, and when I change that it all works. I now have an
editor window which will change the instance, so I more or less understand
how to use it. I still can't get it to produce an editor in a browser using
Seaside, but that is less important.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Esteban Lorenzano
Sent: 14 May 2014 12:35
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

you have an older version (configuration is probably not up to date). just
open project in monticello and load latest magritte-morph, it should work. 

and yes, I use it all the time :)

Esteban

On 14 May 2014, at 12:00, PBK Research  wrote:

> Stephan
> 
> Thanks. I have Magritte-Morph in my image, but I wonder if anyone has
> debugged it. I send asMagritteMorph to a Magritte description and I get a
> MAContainerMorph, which is OK. Try sending openInWorld to this, and it
falls
> over in MADescriptionMorph>>buildMorph, which calls
> MADescriptionMorph>>rectangleMorph, which tries to create an instance of
the
> non-existent class RectangleMorph. 
> 
> I have tried to trace this back, and it is true that my original Pharo 3.0
> image, downloaded on 30 Apr 2014, does not have the class RectangleMorph.
I
> have looked at older images, and the class exists. Maybe my mistake was to
> try to use the Pharo 3.0 image the day it was announced. Perhaps I would
be
> better off using one of the pre-packed images you mention. My only worry
is
> that there is a list of dozens of contributions on
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/, and unless you have far more
> knowledge than I have it is impossible to know which might be helpful. For
> now I will follow your hint and use the Forum image.
> 
> Thanks again for your help.
> 
> Peter Kenny
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf
Of
> Stephan Eggermont
> Sent: 14 May 2014 00:25
> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte
> 
> Peter wrote:
> 
>> is there a method #asMorph which will give the 
>> morphic version as easily, or if not how do I get an editor as a Pharo 
>> window? 
> 
> There is asMagritteMorph yes, defined in Magritte-Morph.
> You might need to load that additionally (it is loaded in the Forum
image).
> 
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Stephan

Thanks for the comment. I understand the point about development and things
not always being in step. But if you look at it from my point of view, I am
an elderly retired statistician who does programming for fun, I am not an
expert in development and I am pretty new to Pharo. It all looks a maze of
new terminology to me - I don't understand the difference between Monticello
and Metacello, for instance. I am sure to an expert your explanation of how
to check the correct version of Magritte3 is quite straightforward, but I
would never have found my way to that conclusion myself. As I pointed out to
Esteban, I used the configuration browser on 5 May to get the stable version
of Magritte3. If that was already out of date, I am pretty well lost.

Still, I am making progress with my original aim of learning about Magritte,
and there are many helpful people on this group, so you can just regard this
as me blowing off steam after things had not gone completely easily.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Stephan Eggermont
Sent: 14 May 2014 12:58
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

Peter wrote:
>Thanks. I have Magritte-Morph in my image, but I wonder if anyone has 
>debugged it. I send asMagritteMorph to a Magritte description and I get a 
>MAContainerMorph, which is OK. Try sending openInWorld to this, and it
falls 
>over in MADescriptionMorph>>buildMorph, which calls 
>MADescriptionMorph>>rectangleMorph, which tries to create an instance of
the 
>non-existent class RectangleMorph. 

Hmm, that looks like you have an old version of Magritte-Morph loaded.
If you open the Monticello browser, you can select the Magritte-Morph
package and then open its repository to see if there is a newer version.
If you select a newer version and click Changes, you can see if this
newer version is likely to solve your problem (it is). 

If you take a look at the ConfigurationOfMagritte3, you can see what 
goes wrong. version32 is the first one referring to a Magritte-Morph
newer than version 70. stable: installs version311 however. So 
ConfigurationOfMagritte3 needs a new stable version. (Done)

>I have tried to trace this back, and it is true that my original Pharo 3.0 
>image, downloaded on 30 Apr 2014, does not have the class RectangleMorph. I

>have looked at older images, and the class exists. Maybe my mistake was to 
>try to use the Pharo 3.0 image the day it was announced. Perhaps I would be

>better off using one of the pre-packed images you mention.

Pharo 3 has lots of improvements and clean-ups. RectangleMorph behavior
was folded back into BorderedMorph. The projects running on top of Pharo
have different ideas of what should be stable and what development
versions. The people developing them mostly use development releases
or specific versions. If there are not a lot of non-developing users the
stable version
tends to lag behind. And if the specific problem is not in the tests, CI
will not
break. 

Just before the release, there are lots of fixes and the image changes fast.
Not all projects will be able to synchronize fast, and have sufficient trust
to declare a new version stable. So just after a release, you might have to
use
a lot of development versions, check repositories and ask questions on
the mailing lists. Please do, that is the only way we can improve.

>My only worry is that there is a list of dozens of contributions on 
>https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/, and unless you have far more 
>knowledge than I have it is impossible to know which might be helpful. For 
>now I will follow your hint and use the Forum image. 

That's a helpful comment. Thank you. We should improve the project
descriptions (at least I should for mine). 

Stephan



 

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

Esteban

Well, I am carrying on, but I do wonder why Pharo has to be such a rapidly
moving target. There are virtues in stability, and perhaps there should be a
filtering process before any change is made, to ensure that the benefits
outweigh any disruption. I must admit that, at times, Pharo looks like a
playground for a fairly small group of very clever people who are in love
with the process of development.

I got involved with Pharo again recently - having looked at it briefly
several years ago - because I had read papers, mainly by Lukas Renggli,
about Magritte and PetitParser, and I thought these were brilliant ideas
that I wanted to explore. But am sure that, if I could get the functions of
Magritte and PetitParser in a stable environment like Dolphin, I would drop
Pharo like a shot.

While I am in a moaning mood - I'm not always like this! - could anyone tell
me whether there is a glossary of names for Pharo extensions which will tell
beginners like me what they are for and whether they are worth learning
about. I have come across Cairo, Athens, Zinc, Fuel, Spec, Grease and Shout
- just as names, with no idea what they do and no obvious way of finding
out. Is there any place where I can look these things up? They all exist in
the Forum image that I downloaded today, but the system browser contains no
general explanation.

Peter Kenny

PS I've just seen Stephan's reply while composing this. Thanks - it all gets
a bit clearer. You might take my last paragraph above as my response to your
last paragraph!


-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
Esteban A. Maringolo
Sent: 14 May 2014 13:30
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

2014-05-14 9:25 GMT-03:00 PBK Research :
> Stephan

> Still, I am making progress with my original aim of learning about
Magritte,
> and there are many helpful people on this group, so you can just regard
this
> as me blowing off steam after things had not gone completely easily.

Plus, you mention you're coming from Dolphin Smalltalk.
Which is easier than the average, in terms of straightforwardness.

Pharo has A LOT to offer, once you get used to aim at a moving target :)


Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

[PBK Research]

stepharo

I was not setting out to insult anybody, and if you feel insulted by my
comments then I apologise. I have had a frustrating couple of days, and I
was trying to explain the source of my frustration. In some respects my
problems are connected with the rate at which Pharo is changing; I was a bit
niggled by Esteban Maringolo's comment about having to aim at a moving
target, which I realise was meant light-heartedly, and I sounded off.

One sort of frustration is exemplified by your comment that RectangleMorph
was removed months ago, yet the version of Magritte3 that I got from the
configuration browser last week had a method
MADescriptionMorph>>rectangleMorph that called RectangleMorph. That has now
been changed to BorderedMorph and it works OK, but it wasted a bit of my
time finding out why. This may be the fault of the Magritte developers
rather than the Pharo developers, but from the user's viewpoint this
distinction is not obvious.

I have made progress since I sent my messages earlier today; I can now see
how to use Magritte (at an elementary level) to produce editors via Seaside
in a web browser or as Pharo windows, which was one of my first objectives.
I shall persevere with Pharo, and I shall try to read all the documentation
thoroughly before asking questions here.

Peter Kenny

-Original Message-
From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of
stepharo
Sent: 14 May 2014 21:22
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte


On 14/5/14 17:15, PBK Research wrote:
> Esteban
>
> Well, I am carrying on, but I do wonder why Pharo has to be such a rapidly
> moving target. There are virtues in stability, and perhaps there should be
a
> filtering process before any change is made, to ensure that the benefits
> outweigh any disruption.
There is one. Now immobility is also death.
>   I must admit that, at times, Pharo looks like a
> playground for a fairly small group of very clever people who are in love
> with the process of development.

Pharo is not moving fast. The RectangleMorph has been removed months ago.
Now if people do not maintain packages or maintain only what they use: 
this is not the
fault of Pharo.

Pharo is not a playground. We have companies deploying real software 
using Pharo.
Now for some companies this is important to have
 - up to date technologies like vector graphics
 - clean (you know not always getting dirt in your way when you code)
 - easy to use
version of Pharo and they value that we are moving.
We do not move for the sake of it and we would prefer to have a clean 
and well designed system like dolphin was (which could never run on my 
machine)  but people preferred "better dead than open-source" and they 
are dead sadly.

>
> I got involved with Pharo again recently - having looked at it briefly
> several years ago - because I had read papers, mainly by Lukas Renggli,
> about Magritte and PetitParser, and I thought these were brilliant ideas
> that I wanted to explore. But am sure that, if I could get the functions
of
> Magritte and PetitParser in a stable environment like Dolphin, I would
drop
> Pharo like a shot.
Peter don't you feel that you are insulting us?  if it makes you feel 
better good for you.
You can use a Smalltalk running only on windows, that is dead (and of 
course it was really nice)
but the people were against open-source and we believe that we prefer to 
have an open-source
system that everybody can have a look than a close source working on a 
single OS developed by 1.5 developer.
Because there were only two smart guys behind objectarts.

Next time you insult Pharo and us I will just plonk your email (if you 
do not know what plonk means
ask google).
>
> While I am in a moaning mood - I'm not always like this! - could anyone
tell
> me whether there is a glossary of names for Pharo extensions which will
tell
> beginners like me what they are for and whether they are worth learning
> about. I have come across Cairo, Athens, Zinc, Fuel, Spec, Grease and
Shout
> - just as names, with no idea what they do and no obvious way of finding
> out.

I have the answers but frankly you did not give me the will to tell that 
to you
especially when I spent my FREE time and energy to write software and 
documentation for other people.
Now you should learn how to ask questions in an open-source community. 
Now by insulting people:

Cairo (ask google because this is mainstream), Athens (is a API for
vector graphics with different back -end like cairo -hints hints), Zinc
(HTTP server), Fuel (serializer), Spec (UIbuilder), Grease (Compatibility
package) and Shout (Syntax Higlighter as you type).



> Is there any place where I can look these things up? They all exist in
> the Forum image that I downloaded today, but the system browser contains
no

[Pharo-users] Scroll wheel handling in Pharo 3.0

[PBK Research]

I have a puzzle in using the scroll wheel in Pharo 3.0. Lately I have been
playing with Moose 4.8, which I think is Pharo 2.0 plus some extras, and
with a fresh download of Pharo 3.0. In the Moose image, if I open a system
browser, for example, I find that the scroll wheel will scroll whichever
pane the cursor is in. In Pharo 3.0, it is necessary to make a pane active,
by clicking in it, before it can be scrolled. I find the first possibility
more convenient; for example, if I click in the categories pane to make it
active, it almost always has the effect of making a selection from among the
visible categories, which is not what I want. Is there any easy way of
fixing the Pharo 3 image so that it will have the effect of scrolling the
pane - or the window - which contains the cursor? I have searched the
settings browser headings, but I could not find anything that looked
relevant.
 
Some years ago, I poked into the innards of Dolphin Smalltalk and tweaked it
to produce the effect I want. It was not a major change, so it might be
educational for me to try the same trick in Pharo. Still, as there is a
version that does what I want, I thought I would ask if it can be done just
by changing a setting.
 
Thanks for any advice
 
Peter Kenny