Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument
Hello Paulo, its a problem to get Smalltalkers - simple as it is. I had contacts with Smalltalkers who wanted to do Smalltalk-"only" jobs - thats impossible to guarantee in a smaller company and perhaps a mind I would not expect from Smalltalker. And the point about "Main Development Language" ... well, the other developers have also their "beloved" language and it would be a much better idea to put their "loved" together with your "loved" language. There are *very* good reason out there to write Windows FAT-Clients in .NET languages or even Mac/Linux/Windows Clients with Xamarin/Microsoft tools or even Java-world languages and HTML-Clients with some good JS-libraries. You have to have very good reasons (and this is NOT productivity) to argue against this and tell the other developers, that you develop superior solutions just because you are doing Smalltalk. This may be true for very specific libraries (and thats not only Roassal) - not available in other systems - but in the normal case, they will simply win (because of the huge amount software written in other languages). The only Smalltalk technology I found out to be worthwhile fighting for (because other are not able to offer a similar solution) today is an object oriented database (e.g. Gemstone/S). Perhaps the Smalltalk community should concentrate on the idea to make their technology open/accessable for other languages in an easy way. This is especially true for database vendors. Database vendors offering Java, C# and python object support and Smalltalk as an integrated script language - that could be a very good argument and a place where Smalltalk can survive. So, the answer is: don't depend on the language, look for developers working with more than one language and insert Smalltalk technology where you *really* get benefit. And the area where Smalltalk is so much better is getting smaller and smaller these days. Marten Am 19.10.2017 um 09:04 schrieb Paulo R. Dellani: > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? > > Cheers, > > Paulo > > -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] How do you develop for gemstone in open source tools (pharo)?
Hello, several ways to do programming under Gemstone. I personally use Jade (under Linux using WINE) the whole time. No support for git, but following the traditional browser concept of Smalltalk. Still missing some development point and has limitation - but for the traditional developer a fast lane into Gemstone/S Marten Am 22.06.2017 um 23:16 schrieb Petr Fischer: > Hello, I'm curious how _comfortably_ develop software for Gemstone, which is > the preferred/best way (and future)? > > 1) tODE - OK, a decent amount of work was inserted to it to make it work > somehow. Decent tools with git support, a lot of windows (autolayouting > required), very basic inspector, based on obsolete Pharo3, no autocomplete, > weird auto code formating etc. :( > Will the development continue (better inspectors, autocomplete, etc)? > > 2) gt4gemstone - new project based on GT tools, great > playground/workspace/inspectors, running in latest Pharo, but again, just > basic browser, no autocompletion, no syntax coloring (so far), but modern way > What is the plan? Write proper class browser and code editor again from > scratch? > There is amazing new browser for Pharo, Calypso, which has remote browsing > capabilities (but probably different remoting/proxy layer than gt tools) - is > possible to utilize this project for remote Gemstone browsing in future? > > 3) develop in Pharo, then deploy to Gemstone > With some compatibility layers, there is possibility to develop > application/business logic in Pharo (with bare collections, dicts, containers > etc.) and then deploy code to Gemstone and test. Nice scenario, latest modern > dev tools (browsers, inspectors, versioning) from Pharo, but on the dev side > in Pharo, no transaction logic (test transaction logic with junit > impossible/not available etc.), also not compatible class library - so also > with drawbacks with different Smalltalk implementation chaos :( > > I would very much like to get involved with Gemstone dev, but it scratches a > bit now. > > Thanks! pf > -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Team programming with Smalltalk
Am 17.02.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Esteban A. Maringolo: > I've used ENVY for a couple of years, and marginally used Store. Store > is nothing compared with ENVY, ENVY is far superior. Store is like > Monticello, but as such it lacks the "Configuration Map" part of it, > that is offered by Metacello in Pharo/Squeak/GemStone. > > However I find ENVY to be too cumbersome for an agile way of working. And another point is, that the way of ENVYs thinking is also available in the tools they offer for the developer (let it be VW 2.5.2 or VASmalltalk). Same tools on all platforms. This way of thinking is also introduced in the kind of browsers you have - which offers different ways of views on your projects. For me the most and strongest point in the ENVY-Browsers area is the ApplicationBrowser. Its shows you only the part of the image of a specific application (package) , which are new classes introduced by you in this application (package) - but also all the extension methods you added in this application (package) to classes. That means - programmers can stay for the whole life of a project - in only this kind of browsers. A wonderful way of viewing the image. Sadly this is gone or simply only badly implemented. E.g. in Pharo you can select a package - fine, but to know, what has been extended in this package ?. The name of the method categories also define in which package this method is located in. Make a type error and the method goes into a different package and you will not recognize it. Solutions born by the idea: how can we make it simple to have a solution this evening - and these solutions survive over the years. ENVY for the first time used ? Well I remember, that I was crazy about this tool - all this versioning, prerequisites etc ... but now after 20 years ? I'm used to the tools available on the Smalltalk market - but really nice versioning (with several platforms): ENVY is the way to go. And the original version had several user interactions implemented - which have been defined by VASmalltalk (e.g. change the developer role and make this or that in one click). ENVY is also the tool, where I have so much confidence with, because over the last 20 years I've never seen crashes and data losses. A strong point for a closed-source software repository. Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] About Git
I would give you many more "+" - if you wish - for your opinion: Another point I would like to mention: keep the source code locally or at least have an easy option to hold all source code locally. I've seen so many times, that git or one of the other git repositories are down - that's a very critical point. I would like to have a local repository, where I can import external packages and I work locally only. I also have thought several times that it would be nice to have a SQLite database holding all sources/packages. How much easier life would be with that. Other than that: I prefer my simple server directory holding monticello packages - in the Gemstone/S area. But I have to admit, that all the source code management stuff I've seen since ENVY in the Smalltalk community are pretty poor stuff - and even considering integrating git is not a step forward in terms of technical improvements, but only in terms of marketing and mainstream technology. Marten Am 14.01.2017 um 18:44 schrieb werner kassens: > Hi Dimitris, > i as a simple user tend to think about these things in simple terms: i > download a program, add something, upload my addition. lets take an > upload step, _one_ simple step with monticello: i upload something once > (git add), i upload it a second time (git commit), i upload it a third > time (git push), i try to upload it a fourth time (pull request), only > then i'm done (yes, there are possible shortcuts but so what). i'm sure > all this makes sense for the seasoned coder, but i certainly won't learn > that. just as a small example how a user like me thinks > about this. > werner > -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Situation - Raspberry PI and Pharo + Squeak
Hi, thanks for all these explanations. I tested the versions you mentioned below with both Pharo and Squeak. Squeak-GUI (4.6) seems still to be three times faster than Pharo's GUI (5.0) - but actually it's at least a Pharo version which has an acceptable speed. Marten Am 05.07.2015 um 21:24 schrieb Attila Magyar: Hi Marten, Currently I'm using this this vm from here http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3395/cogspurlinuxhtARM-15.26.3395.tgz with the latest Pharo 5 spur image from here http://files.pharo.org/image/50/latest-spur32.zip As far as I know, spur is a new memory manager but I'm not familiar with the details. There is also a stack vm that works with ordinary images, but it lacks JIT compilation therefore a lot slower than cog. Attila -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Situation-Raspberry-PI-and-Pharo-Squeak-tp4835873p4835876.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Marten Feldtmann
[Pharo-users] Situation - Raspberry PI and Pharo + Squeak
Hello, can anyone summarize the situation of Squeak/Pharo under Raspberry PI at the moment ? What platform/version is working, which vm should be used and it should be useable ... what is the difference of SPUR here etc Thanks, -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] RESTful API with Pharo with Gemstones
We go a very similiar way as Sebastian - but with our company need NOT to build a Smalltalk-only system, but also offer support for several other developers/languages. We use * Zinc REST * Gemstone 3.2.6 We generate code to have: * Swagger-UI and Swagger-Core support (currently 1.2) Earlier the swagger stuff was also handled by Gemstone, but now we create Gemstone-Code to write the Swagger-specs into the server filesystem. Practically the swagger-core support has been working with C# (we had to correct/change the template for source code generation). We see now the need to go to Swagger 2.0, to stay near the development master stream. The whole system is working very stable - the only problem I have is a 10 MB limit on the Gemstone socket system - here the Zinc HTTP System subsystem must be changed to get rid of this problem. Marten Am 23.06.2015 um 20:40 schrieb sergio_101: I have been a project coming up that I really onlyneed a restful API on. The front end will be first built on a mobile device(iOS )then back on possibly android, with a very stripped down web application. i would like to use pharo/gemstones as the database. is there a project out there that allows for such restful API development in pharo land? This would be so fun! thanks -- Marten Feldtmann
[Pharo-users] WebSocket and Proxying ...
Hello, I'm playing with WebSockets under Pharo4 and this works as expected - when using Pharo4 alone (using the Zinc packages). But I did not get it to work, when e.g. doing a proxying via nginx (I did not check it with Apache). Actually Pharo4 seems to receive some stuff, because the WebSocket of Pharo4 stuff does not work as expected after first proxying attempts. Has anyone experience with that ? Marten
Re: [Pharo-users] WebSocket and Proxying ...
Hmm, at least I managed, that Pharo answered every second request using
the echo example
Under Windows and nginx I added to the nginx configuration. My local
Pharo server is running under 127.0.0.1:4:
extract from nginx.conf:
http:{
map $http_upgrade $connection_upgrade {
default upgrade;
}
server {
location /ws-echo {
proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:4/ws-echo ;
proxy_http_version 1.1;
proxy_set_header Upgrade $http_upgrade;
proxy_set_header Connection $connection_upgrade;
}
location /ws-echo-client {
proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:4/ws-echo-client ;
}
}
}
Am 06.05.2015 um 10:20 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe:
Marten,
On 06 May 2015, at 10:15, itli...@schrievkrom.de wrote:
Hello,
I'm playing with WebSockets under Pharo4 and this works as expected -
when using Pharo4 alone (using the Zinc packages).
But I did not get it to work, when e.g. doing a proxying via nginx (I
did not check it with Apache).
Actually Pharo4 seems to receive some stuff, because the WebSocket of
Pharo4 stuff does not work as expected after first proxying attempts.
Has anyone experience with that ?
Marten
Proxying the WebSockets protocol is not easy, nor implemented everywhere,
like HTTP is. This makes sense if you think about it, a WebSocket connection
is a permanent connection, which takes resources, this is not something most
servers like.
So it is more difficult.
Did you see/try http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/websocket.html ?
(I did not try it)
Sven
--
Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] WebSocket and Proxying ...
Good guess - but this does not help Marten Am 06.05.2015 um 21:24 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: Good that it works now, maybe your problem is that /ws-echo comes before and maybe also matches /ws-echo-client ? But I am no nginx expert. Maybe you try serving and proxying it as /client-ws-echo ? Or switch the order ? -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] WebSocket and Proxying ...
Ok, I managed to make it work somehow:
I removed the static file serving from Pharo and put the
ws-echo-client code to the file system and it is now handled by nginx.
Now only WebSocket stuff is done by Pharo and this seems to work without
problems.
That means: the mixture of static-stuff and websocket handling breaks
the system: browser (Firefox or Chrome or IE11) - nginx - Pharo
Not the solution I wanted, but at least a way to make WebSockets working
under Pharo ...
Marten
Am 06.05.2015 um 16:48 schrieb itli...@schrievkrom.de:
Hmm, at least I managed, that Pharo answered every second request using
the echo example
Under Windows and nginx I added to the nginx configuration. My local
Pharo server is running under 127.0.0.1:4:
extract from nginx.conf:
http:{
map $http_upgrade $connection_upgrade {
default upgrade;
}
server {
location /ws-echo {
proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:4/ws-echo ;
proxy_http_version 1.1;
proxy_set_header Upgrade $http_upgrade;
proxy_set_header Connection $connection_upgrade;
}
location /ws-echo-client {
proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:4/ws-echo-client ;
}
}
}
Am 06.05.2015 um 10:20 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe:
Marten,
On 06 May 2015, at 10:15, itli...@schrievkrom.de wrote:
Hello,
I'm playing with WebSockets under Pharo4 and this works as expected -
when using Pharo4 alone (using the Zinc packages).
But I did not get it to work, when e.g. doing a proxying via nginx (I
did not check it with Apache).
Actually Pharo4 seems to receive some stuff, because the WebSocket of
Pharo4 stuff does not work as expected after first proxying attempts.
Has anyone experience with that ?
Marten
Proxying the WebSockets protocol is not easy, nor implemented everywhere,
like HTTP is. This makes sense if you think about it, a WebSocket connection
is a permanent connection, which takes resources, this is not something most
servers like.
So it is more difficult.
Did you see/try http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/websocket.html ?
(I did not try it)
Sven
--
Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4 Playground open file menu
Am 02.05.2015 um 23:28 schrieb p...@highoctane.be: When some sysadmin has to edit them on servers, you want them in .st files. No class. No IDE. Not too much Smalltalk. Just the DSL on an as needed to know basis to configure things. That's better that XML/YAML/JSON... So, that's the case. Startup scripts same story. More or less the same use case as I have Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and Pi
I found the NB approach as a fresh breeth of air - beside all the problems (I am/was not aware of). Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and Pi
As I posted on my blog yesterday: Pharo 3 is running. Marten Am 18.03.2015 um 15:35 schrieb Torsten Bergmann: Read about piCore this week which is a Tiny Core Linux for the Pi. As there is - a quick bootable Pharo on top of TinyLinux (Mikes PharoNOS project) - a Pharo that is runnable on Pi I wonder if anyone already did some experiments on booting directly into Pharo on a pi. Still a pi newbee I also would like to know how to get started to Pharo on Pi. Seems like the CI job is not available: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/computer/RaspberryPi/ Where to get started with Pharo on Pi these days? Any quick guide? Thx T. -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] About Zinc http components
There are some good C libraries out there, which are suitable to connect programs with each other: a good example is 0MQ. Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] About Zinc http components
0MQ is not message queueing in the normal sense as known from all other MQ tools/libraries. 0MQ is about networking in general ... and their introduction text with all their examples is one of the best examples documentation I've ever read in the area of practical networking. Even though one might not use 0MQ one should read their views about putting network patterns together to form a distributed network of software nodes (in different languages). For Smalltalk 0MQ is a wonderful library: - because of the interactive character of Smalltalk you might run a 0MQ node and still can inspect the whole traffic. That's a thing other languages can dream of. - due to the fact, that the whole communcation is done in an external thread you simply win Smalltalk CPU time (which is always needed). Marten
Re: [Pharo-users] About Zinc http components
0MQ is defined by its exported C interface ... Am 07.10.2014 um 23:51 schrieb kilon alios: nope but it is made (unlike 0mq which is made in C++) in C so its should be relative simple to wrap with NB or even TalkFFI. At least the parts that interest you. -- Marten Feldtmann
[Pharo-users] How to create a package via code correctly ?
How can I create a package correctly via code ? I tried stuff like PackageOrganizer default registerPackageNamed: 'Keks4' SystemOrganization addCategory: 'Keks4' but the package does not appear in the browser. Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] RDBMS Atomic Counter?
I think this is simply a case of optimistic locking - there is a general way and very often db specific ways first you get the current active value ... (one row) currentValue from select counterfield from tablename then you update the table (single row) update tablename set counterfield = currentValue + 1 where counterfield = currentValue commit then you look how many rows have been changed (=1) and assume, that commit was successful and then you know if you were successful ... otherwise you must retry ... this is a simple, with worst performance but portale approach ... Marten Am 16.04.2014 21:52, schrieb Esteban A. Maringolo: Hi, A few weeks ago Sven was asking for a lock-free in-image atomic counter. Today I'm in need of implementing a DB backed (PGSQL) counter for business forms numbering, and maybe there are some toughts you're willing to share :) I can't find any other way than a row lock for each counter, but maybe there is something better (I avoid locks as much as possible). Any thoughts to share here? Regards! -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc HTTP server seems to convert always ...
Am 09.04.2014 15:29, schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: Hi Marten, I will need (much) more detail, what are you trying to do that is not working according to you ? As far as I know Zinc HTTP Components does the right thing and can be used (configured) to do almost anything you want. It mostly depends on your mime types and their charset options. The browser sends UTF8 data and in my application code I get instances of ZnStringEntity and the contained string is converted to (?) ISO8859-1 (?) or CP-1252 (?). This seems to be due to the fact, that the entity instance always has a ZnUTF8Encoder to do the conversion. I would like to have UTF8 everywhere ... without all these conversions ... Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc HTTP server seems to convert always ...
Ok, if the browser sends POST/PUT request with a JSON structure it also sends charset = utf8 (in my case). That's ok, because for JSON this is more or less the default charset. Zinc now seems to notice, that UTF8 charset is needed and creates a ZnStringEntity with an UTF8Encoder. Now when my application tries to get the JSON string of that ZnStringEntity and builds the structure out of that string - and the strings are NOT UTF8, but converted to (?) ISO8859 ? Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc HTTP server seems to convert always ...
Ok, forget the JSON stuff - it has nothing to do with the problem.
Other way round:
My whole database and internal processing is done in UTF8. This is the
most important point here to mention.
Now the request comes into Zinc as mentioned below (the content of the
request is a JSON string only):
HTML-Request (charset=UTF-8) =(sends)= ZINC HTTP
Now Zinc sees the content of the body, knows that it is coded in UTF8
and creates a ZnStringEntity with UTF8Encoder.
Zinc HTTP =(builds)= ZnStringEntity (with UTF8Encoder)
The instance of ZnRequest and its entity value is an instance of
ZnStringEntity (with its encoder attribute is set to an instance to
ZnUTF8Encoder).
I checked the content of the string attribute of the ZnStringEntity and
this string is NOT encoded in UTF8 any more, but in either ISO8859-?
or WIN1252.
I think, that this is ok for almost all people, because they work with
some CodePages - but my internal processing assumes UTF8.
I just fixed this for me by changing ZnStringEntityinitializeEncoder
to ALWAYS set the encoder attribute to ZnNullEncoder and now everthing
is ok again. This means of course, that all apllication running with
that source code work in UTF 8 only ...
Marten
Am 09.04.2014 18:42, schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe:
Marten,
On 09 Apr 2014, at 18:25, itli...@schrievkrom.de wrote:
Ok, if the browser sends POST/PUT request with a JSON structure it also
sends charset = utf8 (in my case). That's ok, because for JSON this is
more or less the default charset.
Zinc now seems to notice, that UTF8 charset is needed and creates a
ZnStringEntity with an UTF8Encoder.
Now when my application tries to get the JSON string of that
ZnStringEntity and builds the structure out of that string - and the
strings are NOT UTF8, but converted to (?) ISO8859 ?
(NeoJSONReader fromString:
(ZnEntity with: (NeoJSONWriter toString: { #message - 'An der schönen
blauen Donau' } asDictionary)))
at: #message.
You must be doing something possibly wrong when you get the JSON string of
that ZnStringEntity and builds the structure out of that string (how do you
do that, BTW), so please write some code that demonstrates what is not right
according to you.
Sven
--
Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc HTTP server seems to convert always ...
And now the additional information: I'm working under Gemstone and I noticed quite some differences between Pharo and its Gemstone port of Zinc in this area ... I have to take a closer look here. Marten -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] neo json and valueSchema for integer attributes ...
Hmm, I think that something is definitly missing here. The same code but instead of using #AsString I use DateAndTime and it works as expected - and that's what I would expect: use for that property mapping a valueSchema named AsString. It seems to work for all classes, when there is no predefined encoding available in the running system:Integer has a mathod, DateAndTime not. Is there any reason why is works that way ? Marten Am 21.02.2014 12:07, schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: On 21 Feb 2014, at 09:18, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 07:50 schrieb itli...@schrievkrom.de: I have a class with an instance attribute x and this one contains an integer value. No when exporting this to json I want to write a string instead of this number to the json string ... neoJsonMapping: mapper mapper for: self do: [ :mapping | (mapping mapInstVar: #x to: 'x') valueSchema: #AsString. ]. mapper for: #AsString customDo: [ :mapping | mapping encoder: [ :anInteger | x asString ]. mapping decoder: [ :aString | ... ] ]. But whatever I do ... only numbers are written out ... and yes of course I could add additional accessors doing the conversion. -- Marten Feldtmann
[Pharo-users] neo json and valueSchema for integer attributes ...
I have a class with an instance attribute x and this one contains an integer value. No when exporting this to json I want to write a string instead of this number to the json string ... neoJsonMapping: mapper mapper for: self do: [ :mapping | (mapping mapInstVar: #x to: 'x') valueSchema: #AsString. ]. mapper for: #AsString customDo: [ :mapping | mapping encoder: [ :anInteger | x asString ]. mapping decoder: [ :aString | ... ] ]. But whatever I do ... only numbers are written out ... and yes of course I could add additional accessors doing the conversion. -- Marten Feldtmann
Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc as a proxy ?
The main idea was: - Use Pharo as a headless server - Pharo serves files for a local user (one person application) - GUI is written in Sencha (js framework) - Pharo offers additonal (platform) REST-API's for this application and is able to proxy requests for external services (to get ONE-source targets for browser apps) - now put all stuff together via an installer and deliver this to customers - GUI is done via alredy installed browser. The main concept has already be done by me via VASmalltalk (and jQuery apps) - under Linux and windows - and it worked. (As an platform REST-API I created a service for ZeroMQ for service detection and IPC communication). Now I want to switch to Pharo and Zinc (no need for Seaside any more) - and be able to offer solutions for Mac, Linux and Windows. That's were I would like to go ... Thanks for your answer ... Marten
[Pharo-users] Zinc as a proxy ?
Can a Zinc http-server be used as a local proxy ? Had anyone done this ? Marten Feldtmann
