RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Ow Mun Heng]

This thread's too long. I'm getting confused on who exactly asked the
question..

My Take on thi 

/snip
what if the code logic requires that there is some output sent to the 
browser. 
/snip

In my case I use a Refresh-redirect. I've posted my code on this on this
thread. The way I'm doing it is like this.. (logic)

The header_refresh_html will redirect to "home.php" if user is already
logged in but not before issuing a warning to the user to logout before
logging in again.

The Error msg will be display WAY.. before the refresh/redirect takes place.
(2 seconds) Maybe if through the internet it's not so great,but on my
intranet, 2 secs is long enough for the user to view the message.

login.php
if ( check_if_authenticated() )
{
header_refresh_html("home.php");
trigger_error(ERROR_USER_ALREADY_AUTHENTICATED, WARNING);
exit;
}
else
{
//display login form/msg
}

=
Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-
From: Pushpinder Singh Garcha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:10 AM
To: Curt Zirzow
Cc: PHP
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


hello everyone,

Can somebody tell me why meta-refresh is not preferred to do re-directs 
?
I know Javascript is browser dependent, so its undependable.

using headers in php requires that no output is sent to the browser, 
what if the code logic requires that there is some output sent to the 
browser. I am sorry if this is a repeat question because someone 
earlier did mention abt output buffering as a way around.

TIA
--Pushpinder


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Curt Zirzow wrote:

> * Thus wrote Pushpinder Singh Garcha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>> try this,
>>
>>
>> use a meta-refresh ...
>>
>> echo "> content=\"3;URL=http://wherever_u_wana_go.com/hello.html\";>";
>
> This has already been discussed, and is not the preferred method of
> doing redirects. PHP can handle what he is doing just fine.
>
>
>
> Curt
> -- 
> "I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
>
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Lars Torben Wilson]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 04:18, Comex wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Lars Torben Wilson:
> > On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 18:21, Daryl Meese wrote:
> >> Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't
> >> believe this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based
> >> on the os that processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.
> >>
> >> Daryl
> >
> >
> > OK: you're mistaken. If you're correct, it's a bug. I'm pretty sure we
> > would have heard about it by now. :)
> >
> > But give it a try and post your results (I don't have a Win PHP box
> > set up right now, myself).
> 
> PHP 4.3.2 and 5.0.0b1 on Windows
> 
>  $a = "set";
> print '$A is '; print isset($A) ? 'set' : 'unset'; print '';
> print '$a is '; print isset($a) ? 'set' : 'unset';
> ?>
> 
> $A is unset
> $a is set

Thanks. The same file on Linux PHP 4.3.2 produces the same output. The
manual is correct: variable names in PHP are case-sensitive, full
stop. It is not dependent upon the OS.

This is explained here:

  http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.variables.php

Thanks for the Win test, Comex!


Cheers,

Torben


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Kevin Stone]

"Zerof" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> You are absolutely right, exit, quits my script, this let me use an
independent script to
> handle the headers. if used with conditional calls. .
> 
> zerof
> -
> "Comex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu na mensagem
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> -
> > Why?  AFAIK, exit quits the script, exactly what you want if you want to
redirect.
> ---

Zerof, Comex is absolutely correct.  exit() should almost always be used in
conjucntion with header("Location: ").  I would be interested in learning
what "collateral effects" you see when doing so.   By any logic exit()
should reduce the number of adverse effects when using header() redirects.

Consider this example..



If we were to employ this code $i would be set to the session even if
header() was called and the user was redirected.  PHP does not care that
another script has been launched and happily continues to execute this
script.  Is this really a desirable effect?  No.. surely not.  Instead what
we should do is exit the script after redirecting the user.



Now we're safe becuase nothing beyond the header() call is going to execute.
Obviously this is an extraordinarily simple example.  But most scripts are
not so straight forward.  If you don't exit after a header redirect you
could be causing yourself one hell of a headache.

Be wise and have one script running at one time.

- Kevin



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris Shiflett]

--- Pushpinder Singh Garcha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can somebody tell me why meta-refresh is not preferred to do
> re-directs?

Sure.

> using headers in php requires that no output is sent to the browser

I think this is what is causing you trouble, as this is incorrect. You can have
output and HTTP headers. In fact, that is what happens 99.9% of the time (or
more). Even when you don't specify headers yourself, you can be sure your Web
server is sending some.

You can use meta tags instead of HTTP headers in many cases, and most browsers
can accomodate this. People are most familiar with using it in substitute for
the Refresh header, but many headers can be sent in meta tags this way.

Of course, since we are PHP developers and can modify the *real* HTTP headers,
there is no reason for us to use meta tags instead. Doing so is a lot like
using JavaScript to perform logic that is more appropriately done in PHP. While
many developers still do this, the more experienced ones generally don't.

Hope that helps.

Chris

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Curt Zirzow]

* Thus wrote Pushpinder Singh Garcha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> hello everyone,
> 
> Can somebody tell me why meta-refresh is not preferred to do re-directs 
> ?
> I know Javascript is browser dependent, so its undependable.
Again, this has already been mentioned three (3) times in this
thread alone,  just to re-iterate since this thread is all messed
up and overly responded to

Here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/checkpoint-list.html

> 
> using headers in php requires that no output is sent to the browser, 
> what if the code logic requires that there is some output sent to the 
> browser. I am sorry if this is a repeat question because someone 
> earlier did mention abt output buffering as a way around.

Yes, output buffering is what you would do. I would recommend
programming around using output buffering and if you cant then
rethink your logic.

and on a side note, technically you should also send html with your
header('Location: /url') for browsers that either are unable to
redirect or have automatic re-direction off.


Ok.. now I'm even more guilty of keeping this thing alive. from now
on I am ignoring all messages in this thread :)

Curt
-- 
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Curt Zirzow]

* Thus wrote Jim Lucas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> can someone post the original source that he submitted.   I was gone
> yesterday and missed it.

dont bother. his original post was in some other exhausted long
threaded that resulted in nothing.

Curt
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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris W. Parker]

Pushpinder Singh Garcha 
on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:10 AM said:

> hello everyone,
> 
> Can somebody tell me why meta-refresh is not preferred to do
> re-directs ?

I think because it breaks the back button (explained in more detail
later).

> using headers in php requires that no output is sent to the browser,
> what if the code logic requires that there is some output sent to the
> browser. I am sorry if this is a repeat question because someone
> earlier did mention abt output buffering as a way around.

Well, if you use a header("Location: ..."); redirect there's no point in
sending anything to the browser because no one is going to see it.

If some output is required to be seen by the user you should just put a
link to the next page and not worry about a redirect at all.

OOO, at the very least, give the meta-refresh a time of about 5
seconds or more so that the back button is not broken. I think the
problem with meta-refresh is that if you try to do an instant refresh
(like the way header(); works) you'll prevent the user from being able
to click the back button since every time they try to go back and reload
the previous page (in their mind they are wanting to go back to the page
BEFORE the redirect page) it will immediately send them back to the page
they were just on because they hit the redirect page first.


hth,
chris.

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Pushpinder Singh Garcha]

hello everyone,

Can somebody tell me why meta-refresh is not preferred to do re-directs 
?
I know Javascript is browser dependent, so its undependable.

using headers in php requires that no output is sent to the browser, 
what if the code logic requires that there is some output sent to the 
browser. I am sorry if this is a repeat question because someone 
earlier did mention abt output buffering as a way around.

TIA
--Pushpinder
On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Curt Zirzow wrote:

* Thus wrote Pushpinder Singh Garcha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
try this,

use a meta-refresh ...

echo "http://wherever_u_wana_go.com/hello.html\";>";
This has already been discussed, and is not the preferred method of
doing redirects. PHP can handle what he is doing just fine.


Curt
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Jim Lucas]

can someone post the original source that he submitted.   I was gone
yesterday and missed it.

Thanks
Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Curt Zirzow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


> * Thus wrote Pushpinder Singh Garcha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > try this,
> >
> >
> > use a meta-refresh ...
> >
> > echo " > content=\"3;URL=http://wherever_u_wana_go.com/hello.html\";>";
>
> This has already been discussed, and is not the preferred method of
> doing redirects. PHP can handle what he is doing just fine.
>
>
>
> Curt
> --
> "I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Curt Zirzow]

* Thus wrote Pushpinder Singh Garcha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> try this,
> 
> 
> use a meta-refresh ...
> 
> echo " content=\"3;URL=http://wherever_u_wana_go.com/hello.html\";>";

This has already been discussed, and is not the preferred method of
doing redirects. PHP can handle what he is doing just fine.

 

Curt
-- 
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Pushpinder Singh Garcha]

try this,

use a meta-refresh ...

echo "http://wherever_u_wana_go.com/hello.html\";>";

hth
--Pushpinder


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 11:24 PM, Beauford.2005 wrote:

It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am forced
to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this and am not going
to waste any further time. I have posted all my code and if someone can
see a problem I'll look at it, but it just ain't worth the effort at
this point.
-Original Message-
From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 23, 2003 10:52 PM
To: Curt Zirzow
Cc: PHP
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:18  PM, Curt Zirzow wrote:

And in my case I would never see the next page. I have javascript
turned
off.
Never rely on javascript to do the work, excpecially in small cases
like
this when php can handle it without any issues, such as javascript
being
turned off.
To follow on from this, the W3 accessibility guidelines
(http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/checkpoint-list.html) state:
---
6.3  Ensure that pages are usable when scripts, applets, or other
programmatic objects are turned off or not supported.  If this is not
possible, provide equivalent information on an alternative accessible
page. [Priority 1]
For example, ensure that links that trigger scripts work when scripts
are turned off or not supported (e.g., do not use "javascript:" as the
link target). If it is not possible to make the page usable without
scripts, provide a text equivalent with the NOSCRIPT element, or use a
server-side script instead of a client-side script, or provide an
alternative accessible page as per checkpoint 11.4. Refer also to
guideline 1.
---
In short, do as much as you can server side (PHP), and ensure the page
doesn't break without JS.  Then use JS on the client side IF YOU MUST
to enhance the experience for those with it switched on.
Yes, it's more work, and yes this is optional (but be aware that SOCOG
(Sydney Olympics) were sued for having an inaccessible site, so it's
only a matter of time before we have huge class action everywhere :)),
and yes you'll reach a greater market share with an accessible page.
Sorry for getting OT

Justin

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[zerof]

You are absolutely right, exit, quits my script, this let me use an independent script 
to
handle the headers. if used with conditional calls. .

zerof
-
"Comex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu na mensagem
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
> Why?  AFAIK, exit quits the script, exactly what you want if you want to redirect.
---



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Comex]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Zerof:
> I'm using the redirect with php for a long time, with no problems.
> I use it in all of my pages, including navigational menus.
> The great problem with "headers" is the function "exit" if it is used
> to ends the call. "headers + exit", if used in any place, may cause
> some collateral efects. -
> zerof
> -

Why?  AFAIK, exit quits the script, exactly what you want if you want to
redirect.



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[zerof]

I'm using the redirect with php for a long time, with no problems.
I use it in all of my pages, including navigational menus.
The great problem with "headers" is the function "exit" if it is used to ends the call.
"headers + exit", if used in any place, may cause some collateral efects.
-
zerof
-



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Comex]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Beauford.2005:
> It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am
> forced to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this and am
> not going to waste any further time. I have posted all my code and if
> someone can see a problem I'll look at it, but it just ain't worth
> the effort at this point.

Every single person who posted here thought that PHP could handle it.  If
header("Location: http://www.google.com";); doesn't work, there's something
wrong with your version of PHP.



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Comex]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Lars Torben Wilson:
> On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 18:21, Daryl Meese wrote:
>> Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't
>> believe this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based
>> on the os that processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.
>>
>> Daryl
>
>
> OK: you're mistaken. If you're correct, it's a bug. I'm pretty sure we
> would have heard about it by now. :)
>
> But give it a try and post your results (I don't have a Win PHP box
> set up right now, myself).

PHP 4.3.2 and 5.0.0b1 on Windows

';
print '$a is '; print isset($a) ? 'set' : 'unset';
?>

$A is unset
$a is set



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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Ow Mun Heng]

This is taken from mantis.. NOt sure if it'll help but take a look at the
t_use_iis field


function print_header_redirect( $p_url, $p_die=true ) {
$t_use_iis = config_get( 'use_iis');

if ( ON == config_get( 'stop_on_errors' ) && error_handled()
) {
return false;
}

if ( OFF == $t_use_iis ) {
header( 'Status: 302' );
}
header( 'Content-Type: text/html' );
header( 'Pragma: no-cache' );
header( 'Expires: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 00:00:00 GMT' );
header( 'Cache-control: no-cache, no-cache="Set-Cookie",
private' );
if ( ON == $t_use_iis ) {
header( "Refresh: 0;url=$p_url" );
} else {
header( "Location: $p_url" );
}

if ( $p_die ) {
die; # additional output can cause problems so let's
just stop output here
}

return true;
}

Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-----
From: Beauford.2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 6:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; PHP
Subject: RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


FYI. I did this login page for another website last month and I used the
code from it to do this one. The other one works perfectly. I checked
that code again today and there is ABSOLUTELY no differnce. I even used
the same variables and session names. The only difference between the
two sites is that the one that works is running IIS on Windows 2000
Server. The broken one is on a Linux box running Apache. Both PHP and
MySQL are the same versions. Remember also that the Header redirect is
working in the redirect.inc page, which is even more confusing.

I have really given up on it. It just ain't gonna work - no matter what
I do. I thought I finally had it working again, but of course - another
f*** up.

Can you explain this? Along with my other code I used a little piece of
javascript to do the redirect, and lo and behold it worked. But now my
paths are all screwed up. I just don't get it.

In the example I tried, the page I am redirected to has a form on it.
When I click submit it should go to the page specified in the action,
which is season_write.php.



But for some reason it tries to go to /setup/season_write.php. This is
not specified anywhere in any of my code. So where the hell it getting
this from. 

The more I use PHP the more I am becoming convinced I should be using
something else. This is just ridiculous.


<!-- Begin
window.location="<? echo $_SESSION['goto']; ?>";
// End -->


-Original Message-
From: Ray Hunter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 23, 2003 5:44 PM
To: Beauford.2005
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


Questions:

1. What verion of php are you running?
2. What version of apache are you running? Or other web server? 3. What
is your configuration for php? check phpinfo() 4. Is php built from
source or a binary (rpm, exe)? 5. What OS are you running on and what
version?


--
BigDog



On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 13:41, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and

> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with 
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.

> It does not work.
> 
> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another 
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just 
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30

> seconds to complete.
> 
> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It 
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it 
> as I am just totally pissed off at it.
> 
> TIA
> 
> 


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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Lars Torben Wilson]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 20:24, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am forced
> to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this and am not going
> to waste any further time. I have posted all my code and if someone can
> see a problem I'll look at it, but it just ain't worth the effort at
> this point.

Again, post a script which displays the problem. I've only seen little
snippets which do not consitute a working example. It will be seen by
many and fixed within minutes.

I have had this functionality active every day for years over many
different version of PHP in many different environments. The good news
is that the problem is not with PHP. That means it's the code, which is
easy to fix.


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Leif K-Brooks]

Beauford.2005 wrote:

It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it.

A poor workman always blames his tools.

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris Shiflett]

--- "Beauford.2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am
> forced to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this
> and am not going to waste any further time.

So you sacrifice the experience of your users due to your own difficulties in
development? A developer's life is filled with problems; after all, your whole
job is to solve them. :-)

Stated differently, you should not be a problem solver if you don't like
problems.

> I have posted all my code and if someone can see a problem I'll
> look at it, but it just ain't worth the effort at this point.

I don't recall seeing your code, but it's possible that I ignored it because it
was "all your code" as you say. Huge, unintelligible chunks of code pasted into
email usually gets ignored by me (and possibly many other people). If you try
to make a small script that illustrates your misunderstanding or problem, you
will:

1. Probably figure out the problem yourself in the process of reproducing it
with a simple, focused script (10 lines or less should do).
2. Have some experienced people on the list quickly identify your error and
point you in the right direction if you still can't figure it out.

Remember that everyone on this list who helps out does so voluntarily. Help us
help you, else don't expect a lot of effort on our part. No one enjoys
hand-holding, and some people will (understandably so) get quite rude when they
feel that their efforts are being unfairly taken advantage of.

Now, I also remember showing you how to do a redirect in PHP already. There are
a few ways, but a protocol-based redirect (that uses a 300-level response
status code) can be performed like this:

header('Location: http://www.google.com/');

Does this not work for you? I'm sure it does.

Chris

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Robert Cummings]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 23:24, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am forced
> to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this and am not going
> to waste any further time. I have posted all my code and if someone can
> see a problem I'll look at it, but it just ain't worth the effort at
> this point.

PHP handles it fine -- I've been using it in my code for years now
without a single hiccup. With thousands (millions?) of others using it,
the assertion that PHP cannot handle "it" seems unequivocally incorrect.
That said it is more likely than not, that you yourself are unable to
handle "it". Furthermore, your style and mannerisms remind me of a
troll.

Cheers,
Rob.
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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Mark Charette]

> From: Beauford.2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it.

Since thousands of people and websites use the header() function without
your problems ...

It's obvious at this point you've got a bug and can't figure out how to fix
it, even though you've been given more than enough clues. Not a PHP problem.

Enough with the whiny Subject: already.



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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Beauford.2005]

It's obvious though that PHP can not handle it. This is why I am forced
to use javascript. I have already spent a week on this and am not going
to waste any further time. I have posted all my code and if someone can
see a problem I'll look at it, but it just ain't worth the effort at
this point.

-Original Message-
From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 23, 2003 10:52 PM
To: Curt Zirzow
Cc: PHP
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP



On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:18  PM, Curt Zirzow wrote:

> And in my case I would never see the next page. I have javascript
> turned
> off.
>
> Never rely on javascript to do the work, excpecially in small cases
> like
> this when php can handle it without any issues, such as javascript 
> being
> turned off.

To follow on from this, the W3 accessibility guidelines 
(http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/checkpoint-list.html) state:

---
6.3  Ensure that pages are usable when scripts, applets, or other 
programmatic objects are turned off or not supported.  If this is not 
possible, provide equivalent information on an alternative accessible 
page. [Priority 1]

For example, ensure that links that trigger scripts work when scripts 
are turned off or not supported (e.g., do not use "javascript:" as the 
link target). If it is not possible to make the page usable without 
scripts, provide a text equivalent with the NOSCRIPT element, or use a 
server-side script instead of a client-side script, or provide an 
alternative accessible page as per checkpoint 11.4. Refer also to 
guideline 1.
---

In short, do as much as you can server side (PHP), and ensure the page 
doesn't break without JS.  Then use JS on the client side IF YOU MUST 
to enhance the experience for those with it switched on.

Yes, it's more work, and yes this is optional (but be aware that SOCOG 
(Sydney Olympics) were sued for having an inaccessible site, so it's 
only a matter of time before we have huge class action everywhere :)), 
and yes you'll reach a greater market share with an accessible page.

Sorry for getting OT

Justin


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Justin French]

On Thursday, July 24, 2003, at 12:18  PM, Curt Zirzow wrote:

And in my case I would never see the next page. I have javascript 
turned
off.

Never rely on javascript to do the work, excpecially in small cases 
like
this when php can handle it without any issues, such as javascript 
being
turned off.
To follow on from this, the W3 accessibility guidelines 
(http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/checkpoint-list.html) state:

---
6.3  Ensure that pages are usable when scripts, applets, or other 
programmatic objects are turned off or not supported.  If this is not 
possible, provide equivalent information on an alternative accessible 
page. [Priority 1]

For example, ensure that links that trigger scripts work when scripts 
are turned off or not supported (e.g., do not use "javascript:" as the 
link target). If it is not possible to make the page usable without 
scripts, provide a text equivalent with the NOSCRIPT element, or use a 
server-side script instead of a client-side script, or provide an 
alternative accessible page as per checkpoint 11.4. Refer also to 
guideline 1.
---

In short, do as much as you can server side (PHP), and ensure the page 
doesn't break without JS.  Then use JS on the client side IF YOU MUST 
to enhance the experience for those with it switched on.

Yes, it's more work, and yes this is optional (but be aware that SOCOG 
(Sydney Olympics) were sued for having an inaccessible site, so it's 
only a matter of time before we have huge class action everywhere :)), 
and yes you'll reach a greater market share with an accessible page.

Sorry for getting OT

Justin

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Lars Torben Wilson]

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 18:21, Daryl Meese wrote:
> Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't believe
> this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based on the os that
> processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.
> 
> Daryl


OK: you're mistaken. If you're correct, it's a bug. I'm pretty sure we
would have heard about it by now. :)

But give it a try and post your results (I don't have a Win PHP box 
set up right now, myself).


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Curt Zirzow]

* Thus wrote skate ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> you could also shove some JavaScript in there if you don't like the way the
> PHP header("location:...") function works...
> 
> 
> location.href="new_page.php";
> 

And in my case I would never see the next page. I have javascript turned
off.

Never rely on javascript to do the work, excpecially in small cases like
this when php can handle it without any issues, such as javascript being
turned off.

Curt
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Leif K-Brooks]

Daryl Meese wrote:

Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't believe
this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based on the os that
processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.
Correct for files, but variables aren't files.

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[John W. Holmes]

Daryl Meese wrote:
Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't believe
this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based on the os that
processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.
Yes, you're wrong. :)

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Daryl Meese]

Well, I know I am not running the latest version of PHP but I don't believe
this is accurate.  I believe PHP case sensitivity is based on the os that
processes the file.  Can anyone clear this up.

Daryl

-Original Message-
From: Leif K-Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:41 PM
To: Daryl Meese
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Miles Thompson; Petre Agenbag; Beauford.2005;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


Daryl Meese wrote:

>One important difference between most windows and linux setups is is case
>sensitivity.  Windows sees $x and $X as the same variable but Linux does
>not.  so it could be a case issue.
>
The two OSes do that with /files/, but PHP doesn't rely on the OS to
check variable names.  PHP is case-sensitive, no matter what OS it's on.

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[skate]

you could also shove some JavaScript in there if you don't like the way the
PHP header("location:...") function works...


location.href="new_page.php";


of course corrections for my bad syntax as i'm doing this out of my head.
but anyway, just PHP to print that script when you want a redirect after
output has been made, and that should solve your problem...

would be useful to know excatly what your doing tho...

- Original Message -
From: "Beauford.2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
> It does not work.
>
> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
> seconds to complete.
>
> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
> I am just totally pissed off at it.
>
> TIA
>
>
>
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> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
>



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Leif K-Brooks]

Daryl Meese wrote:

One important difference between most windows and linux setups is is case
sensitivity.  Windows sees $x and $X as the same variable but Linux does
not.  so it could be a case issue.
The two OSes do that with /files/, but PHP doesn't rely on the OS to 
check variable names.  PHP is case-sensitive, no matter what OS it's on.

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Daryl Meese]

Ok, if it has worked on one machine then the problem is not "with" PHP.
Programming languages always do exactly what they are told (but,
unfortunately not what we think we have told them).

One important difference between most windows and linux setups is is case
sensitivity.  Windows sees $x and $X as the same variable but Linux does
not.  so it could be a case issue.

If you could send me the original code and errors (off list) I will be happy
to look at it for you.

Daryl

-Original Message-
From: Chris Shiflett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:21 PM
To: Miles Thompson; Petre Agenbag; Beauford.2005
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


--- Petre Agenbag wrote:
> If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function.
> BUT, with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be
> absolutely NO output to the page before the header() function is
> called, not even a space...
> Otherwise, you can simply use a meta refresh...

The meta tag just allows you to specify HTTP headers in your content, and
most
browsers try to interpret them as if they were included in the proper
section
of the response.

Since we are all PHP users, there is no reason not to put headers in the
header
section of our responses. If you want to add a Refresh header, you can do
something like this:

header('Refresh: 3; url=http://www.google.com/');

Hope that helps.

Chris

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Gabriel Guzman]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 15:12, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> FYI. I did this login page for another website last month and I used the
> code from it to do this one. The other one works perfectly. I checked
> that code again today and there is ABSOLUTELY no differnce. I even used
> the same variables and session names. The only difference between the
> two sites is that the one that works is running IIS on Windows 2000
> Server. The broken one is on a Linux box running Apache. Both PHP and
> MySQL are the same versions. Remember also that the Header redirect is
> working in the redirect.inc page, which is even more confusing.

just a thought, but if you copied the code from a windows box to a unix
box... there may be some extra line breaks in the php code on the unix
side.  \r's or some such that might not be showing up in your editor. 

> I have really given up on it. It just ain't gonna work - no matter what
> I do. I thought I finally had it working again, but of course - another
> f*** up.

i know the feeling... sucks.

> Can you explain this? Along with my other code I used a little piece of
> javascript to do the redirect, and lo and behold it worked. But now my
> paths are all screwed up. I just don't get it.
> 
> In the example I tried, the page I am redirected to has a form on it.
> When I click submit it should go to the page specified in the action,
> which is season_write.php.
> 
>  action="post" name="seasons">

don't you mean -- method="post" -- instead of a second -- action="post"
--

sorry things aren't working out for ya...

gabe. 


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Curt Zirzow]

* Thus wrote Petre Agenbag ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function. BUT,
> with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be absolutely
> NO output to the page before the header() function is called, not even a
> space...
> Otherwise, you can simply use a meta refresh...

Don't use meta refresh unless it is the only solution, since while using
php you have the option header('Refresh: ...') no need to use meta
refresh.

Curt
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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Lars Torben Wilson]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 15:12, Beauford.2005 wrote:
>  action="post" name="seasons">

Try ACTION="/season_write.php" instead. What happens?

-- 
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 http://www.thebuttlesschaps.com  http://www.inflatableeye.com
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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris Shiflett]

--- Petre Agenbag wrote:
> If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function.
> BUT, with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be
> absolutely NO output to the page before the header() function is
> called, not even a space...
> Otherwise, you can simply use a meta refresh...

The meta tag just allows you to specify HTTP headers in your content, and most
browsers try to interpret them as if they were included in the proper section
of the response.

Since we are all PHP users, there is no reason not to put headers in the header
section of our responses. If you want to add a Refresh header, you can do
something like this:

header('Refresh: 3; url=http://www.google.com/');

Hope that helps.

Chris

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Beauford.2005]

FYI. I did this login page for another website last month and I used the
code from it to do this one. The other one works perfectly. I checked
that code again today and there is ABSOLUTELY no differnce. I even used
the same variables and session names. The only difference between the
two sites is that the one that works is running IIS on Windows 2000
Server. The broken one is on a Linux box running Apache. Both PHP and
MySQL are the same versions. Remember also that the Header redirect is
working in the redirect.inc page, which is even more confusing.

I have really given up on it. It just ain't gonna work - no matter what
I do. I thought I finally had it working again, but of course - another
f*** up.

Can you explain this? Along with my other code I used a little piece of
javascript to do the redirect, and lo and behold it worked. But now my
paths are all screwed up. I just don't get it.

In the example I tried, the page I am redirected to has a form on it.
When I click submit it should go to the page specified in the action,
which is season_write.php.



But for some reason it tries to go to /setup/season_write.php. This is
not specified anywhere in any of my code. So where the hell it getting
this from. 

The more I use PHP the more I am becoming convinced I should be using
something else. This is just ridiculous.


<!-- Begin
window.location="<? echo $_SESSION['goto']; ?>";
// End -->


-Original Message-
From: Ray Hunter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: July 23, 2003 5:44 PM
To: Beauford.2005
Subject: Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


Questions:

1. What verion of php are you running?
2. What version of apache are you running? Or other web server? 3. What
is your configuration for php? check phpinfo() 4. Is php built from
source or a binary (rpm, exe)? 5. What OS are you running on and what
version?


--
BigDog



On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 13:41, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and

> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with 
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.

> It does not work.
> 
> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another 
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just 
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30

> seconds to complete.
> 
> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It 
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it 
> as I am just totally pissed off at it.
> 
> TIA
> 
> 


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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Miles Thompson]

Yes!
And where do we find the  tags ?
Cheers - Miles
At 09:55 PM 7/23/2003 +0200, Petre Agenbag wrote:
If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function. BUT,
with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be absolutely
NO output to the page before the header() function is called, not even a
space...
Otherwise, you can simply use a meta refresh...
-Original Message-
From: Beauford.2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:41 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP
Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
It does not work.
I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
seconds to complete.
If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
I am just totally pissed off at it.
TIA



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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris Shiflett]

--- "Beauford.2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
> It does not work.

It doesn't work?

> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
> seconds to complete.

header('Location: http://www.google.com/);

Viola. :-)

> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
> I am just totally pissed off at it.

I'm not sure how to get that to work, especially since you don't say what that
is, but my example above works fine.

Hope that helps.

Chris

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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Step Schwarz]

FYI, the date on your computer and/or mail server seems to be fast by one
day.. your message is dated tomorrow.

1) is this the ONLY PHP script you're having problems with, or could it be
that PHP isn't yet up and running on your web server?

2) when you try to view the page in a web browser are you getting a blank
screen, an error, or can you see your PHP code?  are you sure you're viewing
the page through the server (http://whatever) and not as a file
(file://whatever)?

hope this helps, -Step


> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
> It does not work.
[...]


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Lars Torben Wilson]

On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 12:41, Beauford.2005 wrote:
> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
> It does not work.

I doubt rather a lot that either of these things is true. But given that
header redirects work fine for everybody but you (well, that's
overstating it, but I bet that's what it feels like)...something is 
hooped.

If you send me the smallest complete script which manifests the problem,
I will check it out for you. The code you've posted so far looks OK.

> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
> seconds to complete.
> 
> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
> I am just totally pissed off at it.
> 
> TIA

-- 
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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[CPT John W. Holmes]

From: "Beauford.2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
> either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
> PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
> It does not work.
>
> I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
> page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
> can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
> seconds to complete.
>
> If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
> would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
> I am just totally pissed off at it.

Let's start over, shall we? Even I've lost track of where you are and what
you've tried. You're right, though, this isn't hard. It's being done on many
web pages out there, also, so I highly doubt it's a PHP issue. It's more
likely a BMAC issue. ;)

What the code you have right now and what isn't working?

---John Holmes...


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Re: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Andrew Brampton]

Just a minor change, the HTTP Specification says that the Location header
should use a absoluteURI which includes the full URL not just page.php... so
http://yoursite.com/page.php is what you should be using there.

Andrew
- Original Message -
From: "Chris W. Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Petre Agenbag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Beauford.2005"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


Petre Agenbag <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:55 PM said:

> If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function.
> BUT, with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be
> absolutely NO output to the page before the header() function is
> called, not even a space...

If there is a "even a space" you can turn output buffering on so that
the redirect will still work.



will work just fine.


chris.

p.s. exactly what is the code you are using in your script that's not
working? and what browser are you using?

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Chris W. Parker]

Petre Agenbag 
on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:55 PM said:

> If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function.
> BUT, with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be
> absolutely NO output to the page before the header() function is
> called, not even a space...

If there is a "even a space" you can turn output buffering on so that
the redirect will still work.



will work just fine.


chris.

p.s. exactly what is the code you are using in your script that's not
working? and what browser are you using?

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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Petre Agenbag]

If you want to "use PHP", then you must use the headers() function. BUT,
with the header function, you MUST make sure that there will be absolutely
NO output to the page before the header() function is called, not even a
space...
Otherwise, you can simply use a meta refresh...


-Original Message-
From: Beauford.2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:41 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP


Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
It does not work.

I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
seconds to complete.

If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
I am just totally pissed off at it.

TIA



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RE: [PHP] I'm really getting annoyed with PHP

[Jay Blanchard]

[snip]
Yes, I'm still screwing around with this stupid redirection thing, and
either I'm just a total idiot or there are some serious problems with
PHP. I have now tried to do it another way and - yes - you guessed it.
It does not work.

I mean really, it can not be this hard to redirect a user to another
page. If it is, then I must look into using something else as I just
can't be wasting days and days on one minor detail that should take 30
seconds to complete.

If anyone has some concrete suggestion on how to get this to work It
would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time I have given up on it as
I am just totally pissed off at it.
[/snip]

I am sorry, what are you talkiung about? It is not mentioned here, so I
cannot help. What specifically is your problem?

Thanks

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