Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
Umm hell yes? I don't use frameworks, its an awsome thing, but I don't like them. But if I'm not using any framework at all, the least I do is writing the application object-oriented'ly. Regards, Nitsan On 22/04/2008, paragasu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: honestly, i never used any framework to do my coding. i look into few popular framework like cakePHP and codeIgiter. I did learn the tutorial but still decide whether to use it on my next project. the thing is, i already develop few working library. no matter how hard i look into it. i always find it is easier or simpler to work with just php code and it work just fine. simple code and i think faster than using complicated php framework. i target my code to use specific server configuration. the only advantages of using framework is cross server version (i don't need it). since everyone out there talking about framework. i still prefer using just php. i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework?
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 17:25 +0800, paragasu wrote: honestly, i never used any framework to do my coding. i look into few popular framework like cakePHP and codeIgiter. I did learn the tutorial but still decide whether to use it on my next project. the thing is, i already develop few working library. no matter how hard i look into it. i always find it is easier or simpler to work with just php code and it work just fine. simple code and i think faster than using complicated php framework. i target my code to use specific server configuration. the only advantages of using framework is cross server version (i don't need it). since everyone out there talking about framework. i still prefer using just php. i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework? There's plenty of people out there who don't believe in frameworks. Nothing wrong with that-- to each their own. Only thing I would ask you is whether you ever re-use any of your own code from one project to the next? If you do, then chances are you're slowly creating your own framework. And if you don't, well I probably wouldn't hire you because obviously you do everything from scratch every time and are wasting the client's time/money. My clients benefit downstream whenever I add to my framework. A problem solved two years ago is a problem still solved today, and I don't need to copy and paste into their project and thus maintain multiple versions of the same solution. I can just use the original solution since it's inherently part of their project. I use a lazy system for loading modules/components/services so having extra crap in my framework doesn't have an impact on run-time. I don't use autoload, and I only use includes/requires if I'm extending a class. Complexity is a mixed deal... I would probably find your system far more complex since I've abstracted away most of the complexity. Sure there are rules, but only a few and even they are flexible. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
My clients benefit downstream whenever I add to my framework. A problem solved two years ago is a problem still solved today, and I don't need to copy and paste into their project and thus maintain multiple versions of the same solution. i am quite new in php. i only spent about 3 year playing with PHP. And what you just said about the 2 years old code still solved problem today. well it is true. but i have a different opinion based on my own experience. i always found better solutions for old problem. For example, during PHP4 age, i have to use XMLParser class (http://www.criticaldevelopment.net/xml/) to parse xml file, while in PHP5.. there is SimpleXML. And another example is mysqli prepared query. Framework is complicated to me. It is easier to work with just php and it is more straight forward. I have to dig deep into the framework documentation because few hack to make it be able to work on all PHP version (backward compatible) and AFAIK, no many framework out there support mysqli prepared query (maybe it does, but it takes some time before someone implement thus function without breaking the code backward compatiblity). Backward compatible framework make the code so damn hard to debug and it really hurt eyes to see many cryptic code. And of course it takes some time to understand what a line of code does (fair enough since the framework coder takes years to create, Newbie like me will take twice the time, to understand and modify that framework) But, i agree, for productivity framework saves a lot of time. Then again, it is easier and faster to use the drag-and-drop php code feature in macromedia mx (no need to learn html and not too much php).. i still can't convince myself to use framework ;(
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
Robert Cummings wrote: i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework? There's plenty of people out there who don't believe in frameworks. Nothing wrong with that-- to each their own. Only thing I would ask you is whether you ever re-use any of your own code from one project to the next? If you do, then chances are you're slowly creating your own framework. And if you don't, well I probably wouldn't hire you because obviously you do everything from scratch every time and are wasting the client's time/money. Of cause it is even more fun trying to move customers from a framework that you selected 6 years ago to your current much more practical framework which you realised was a much better base a couple of years later ;) Because the old clunky framework works, its taken years to get a much more advance framework even considered :( But we are slowly getting there ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
At 5:25 PM +0800 4/22/08, paragasu wrote: i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework? I don't use a framework either. However, I do have a collection of routines (many stolen from Rob, David et al on this list) that I use for specific needs. That collection grows daily. You might try what I do, which is to review every problem presented on this list and make a demo of the solution. It's a lot of work, but you'll build a library of stuff that you can use over and over. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework? Absolutely. Personally I use a lot of disparate libraries, a lot of them from PEAR. Doing this I've never found the need or the inclination to use a framework. -- Richard Heyes ++ | Access SSH with a Windows mapped drive | |http://www.phpguru.org/sftpdrive| ++ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:34 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote: Absolutely. Personally I use a lot of disparate libraries, a lot of them from PEAR. Doing this I've never found the need or the inclination to use a framework. But that is kind of a framework! You get two kinds of framework in PHP IMHO - the Glue frameworks (like Chisimba, CakePHP etc) and the component frameworks (like PEAR, Zend Framework etc). What you are describing is simply a component framework. Just because you choose not to call it a framework, does not mean that it is not a framework. --Paul All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer http://www.uwc.ac.za/portal/public/portal_services/disclaimer.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
You get two kinds of framework in PHP IMHO - the Glue frameworks (like Chisimba, CakePHP etc) and the component frameworks (like PEAR, Zend Framework etc). personally i prefer to call component framework as code library =)
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 14:41 +0200, Paul Scott wrote: On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:34 +0100, Richard Heyes wrote: Absolutely. Personally I use a lot of disparate libraries, a lot of them from PEAR. Doing this I've never found the need or the inclination to use a framework. But that is kind of a framework! You get two kinds of framework in PHP IMHO - the Glue frameworks (like Chisimba, CakePHP etc) and the component frameworks (like PEAR, Zend Framework etc). What you are describing is simply a component framework. Just because you choose not to call it a framework, does not mean that it is not a framework. Yep, PEAR certainly is a framework *lol*. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 20:49 +0800, paragasu wrote: You get two kinds of framework in PHP IMHO - the Glue frameworks (like Chisimba, CakePHP etc) and the component frameworks (like PEAR, Zend Framework etc). personally i prefer to call component framework as code library =) Well since I've plugged my InterJinn framework into the likes of Drupal, EZ Systems, Joomla, osCommerce and a myriad of craptastic custom/legacy/smarty systems... I could easily call it a code library too. Every aspect about my framework is optional. If I don't want/need the scaffolding offered by some of the modules then I don't have to use them. I guess some frameworks though do force you into their single way of doing things. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php framework vs just php?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:25 AM, paragasu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: honestly, i never used any framework to do my coding. i look into few popular framework like cakePHP and codeIgiter. I did learn the tutorial but still decide whether to use it on my next project. [snip!] i just wondering whether i am the only one thinking this way. anyone out there still doing php without using framework? Any reusable code that solves a series of common problems, addresses common issues, or reduces the necessity of writing common code for an application is a framework. On one hand, I would say that I stay away from frameworks, but on the other hand, I'd say that I don't. It's easily explained: I've created my own framework(s) over the years, and I don't use prefabricated ones written by someone else. And since I never really liked buzzwords, I've never considered calling my code core a framework. So by pure semantics alone, no - I don't use a bloody framework (or a clean one either). -- /Daniel P. Brown Dedicated Servers - Intel 2.4GHz w/2TB bandwidth/mo. starting at just $59.99/mo. with no contract! Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
