Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Michael Rasmussen]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2015 at 10:14:19AM -0700, Galen Seitz wrote:
> On 07/09/15 09:47, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> 
> > P.S. regards XFCE and others - interesting options, but the 
> > distro I run (Scientific Linux) is tied to GNOME, and I do not
> > want to give up hundreds of useful packages and addons in an 
> > attempt to escape Gnome 3 foolishness.  When the providers of
> > those tools leave in disgust, so will I.
> 
> Using XFCE doesn't preclude the use of Gnome applications.  I'm running
> XFCE on CentOS 6, but Gnome libraries are installed such that Gnome
> applications will typically run without issues.

Ditto for KDE apps. 

-- 
  Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity
Weight doesn't matter. 5 lbs. off the total weight of 
rider and equipment wouldn't make a huge difference.
~ Jan Heine (on randonneuring)
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Galen Seitz]

On 07/09/15 09:47, Keith Lofstrom wrote:

> P.S. regards XFCE and others - interesting options, but the 
> distro I run (Scientific Linux) is tied to GNOME, and I do not
> want to give up hundreds of useful packages and addons in an 
> attempt to escape Gnome 3 foolishness.  When the providers of
> those tools leave in disgust, so will I.

Using XFCE doesn't preclude the use of Gnome applications.  I'm running
XFCE on CentOS 6, but Gnome libraries are installed such that Gnome
applications will typically run without issues.

galens@lion:~$ gnome-
gnome-aboutgnome-network-properties
gnome-about-me gnome-open
gnome-appearance-propertiesgnome-panel
gnome-at-propertiesgnome-power-bugreport.sh
gnome-at-visualgnome-power-manager
gnome-audio-profiles-propertiesgnome-power-preferences
gnome-character-mapgnome-session
gnome-control-center   gnome-session-properties
gnome-default-applications-properties  gnome-session-save
gnome-desktop-item-editgnome-terminal
gnome-display-properties   gnome-thumbnail-font
gnome-font-viewer  gnome-typing-monitor
gnome-help gnome-volume-control
gnome-keybinding-propertiesgnome-volume-control-applet
gnome-keyboard-properties  gnome-wacom-properties
gnome-keyring  gnome-window-properties
gnome-keyring-daemon   gnome-wm
gnome-mouse-properties


YMMV, of course.

galen
-- 
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Keith Lofstrom]

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> ... RHEL7 ... Fixing Gnome 3 Classic ... vs ... Will MATE survive ...

On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 07:39:43AM -0700, Denis Heidtmann wrote:
> I  searched "gnome resize disable".  I saw many responses, but am too
> clueless to know if  any help your issue.

90% of those links were obsolete or irrelevant (welcome to the
web), but I persisted and found:

1) dconf write /org/gnome/shell/classic-overrides/edge-tiling false
2) dconf write /org/gnome/shell/overrides/edge-tiling false

...  the edge resize behavior went away.  Yay! The magic word
is "tiling".  To thwart a fool, you must talk like a fool ...



Next, to get rid of the hot-corner behavior (which is still
accessible through the "windows" key on the keyboard) for my
redhat-style machine I had to do two things:

1) yum install  gnome-shell-browser-plugin

This allows firefox to install gnome-shell plugins - which
seems insecure to me, but that's the way they do it (even
though firefox doesn't permit to use older versions of java
and flash, but doesn't help me update them ... ).

2) surf to
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/118/no-top-left-corner/
and move the slider switch to "on"

That stops the annoying corner behavior.  I feel better now,
though there are still dozens of things to fix:  java, disable
iTunes application detector, add functionality back to the top
bar (like system monitor), etc. 

My strategy will be to get Gnome-Classic to a minimally usable
state over the next few months, but use MATE as long as it is
available.  Oh, and donate $200 to the MATE project, hopefully
to help prolong that availability.  That is more important than
fixing my car.

Keith

P.S. regards XFCE and others - interesting options, but the 
distro I run (Scientific Linux) is tied to GNOME, and I do not
want to give up hundreds of useful packages and addons in an 
attempt to escape Gnome 3 foolishness.  When the providers of
those tools leave in disgust, so will I.

-- 
Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Darren Couch]

My .02 cents - go to XFCE or LXDE, or compile DWM and go tiled.  Life is
too short to convince the Gnome or KDE teams that they messed up.

With your use model being 20 some odd virtual desktops it would seem that a
tiled manager would fit your need a lot better.

EPEL is your friend if you are running SL:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL

DWM:
http://dwm.suckless.org/

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 8:20 AM Rich Shepard 
wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
> > -pete sigh .. wonder if one can get CDE for Linux ?
>
>Yep:  
>
>FWIW, Xfce4 was designed to emulate CDE. While there have been many
> additions, all of the system can be installed or not. There's a way to suit
> every preference for appearance, use, and work flow. I'd estimate that
> after
> almost 20 years of using it only about 15% of its capabilities and modules
> are installed and used.
>
> Rich
>
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Rich Shepard]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Pete Lancashire wrote:

> -pete sigh .. wonder if one can get CDE for Linux ?

   Yep:  

   FWIW, Xfce4 was designed to emulate CDE. While there have been many
additions, all of the system can be installed or not. There's a way to suit
every preference for appearance, use, and work flow. I'd estimate that after
almost 20 years of using it only about 15% of its capabilities and modules
are installed and used.

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Denis Heidtmann]

I  searched "gnome resize disable".  I saw many responses, but am too
clueless to know if  any help your issue.

-Denis

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Keith Lofstrom 
wrote:

> I've been to busy to fool with Gnome 3 for a while, but I'm
> assembling my "I really HATE this, how do I fix it?" list.
>
> I do not appreciate strangers rearranging my desktop papers.
>
> When I first encountered Linux and Gnome, years ago, I fell
> in love with virtual desktops and Gnome Original - I use 20
> virtuals, populated with many interlocking projects, and on
> a 2048x1536 laptop screen it is like having a physical desk
> 40 feet wide that I can navigate with a mouseclick.  Wow.
>
> Gnome 3, Gnome Classic, and Cinnamon /all/ share the same
> arrogant feature - "all your edges are belong to us".  Move
> the mouse to the upper left corner (where a full screen CAD
> tool might be using the pixels) and bang, you are in the
> desktop pager.  Move an xterm to the top or the edge, and
> it resizes across the screen.  How do I turn that stupid
> f***ing c**p OFF and get a simple, passive desktop again?
>
> MATE is Gnome 2 - I can live with their silly renaming of
> all the apps.  I suppose they had to avoid collisions when
> the Gnome 3 wrecking crew plowed through the namespace.  But
> I worry that without the active support of the major distros
> they will fail.  I've already run into rendering problems on
> the MATE login screen with one graphic chipset.  My distro
> of choice is stable, staid Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
> Scientific Linux variant, and for some reason RHEL chose
> Gnome 3 Classic as their principal offering.  I expect
> Red Hat's customers are NOT updating to RHEL7 in droves.
>
> I can live with new names, or some changes to the paradigm.
> If I can make some incarnation of Gnome 3 leave the damned
> edges alone, and do only what I tell it to with keyboard and
> mouse clicks, I can relearn how to work, and live with it.
>
> Is this possible?   Otherwise, will MATE get enough support
> to endure for a decade or two?  Or will I be stuck with
> changing to M$Bob\Gnome 3 in the future, anyway?
>
> The head of the Gnome project recently asked me for help
> with an unrelated issue, and it took all my self control
> to remain silent and NOT RIP HIS F***ING HEAD OFF, never
> mind helping.  Even Miguel de Icaza, the originator of
> Gnome, is using Mac OSX now.  Does it take a cattle prod
> to wake these zombies up?
>
> To summarize - commit to MATE, or try to repair Gnome 3?
>
> Keith
>
> --
> Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Pete Lancashire]

Keith

I 200% feel the pain. It seems that Gnome, KDE et.al. have been infected by
the same virus that engulfs all of Redmond Washington.

But I can't really say its origin is from within the halls of Microsoft.

But I can say and believe it is predominantly a disease of American origin.
Some where out of the raised factories of what we call Detroit only in that
is was the epicenter of the American automobile industry

Everyone was brainwashed to believe you had to have something new every
year, be it an new car only because the amount of chrome went from 2 sq
feet to 3 sq feet, or the holes in the side went from 3 to 4 etc etc. Ditto
for appliances,
radios, and TVs

I Europe the consumer would ask very foreign questions like does the change
make it easier to use or does it make it safer (Volvo) or does it last
longer (Mercedes-Benz), or does it clean my clothes better .

Why upgrade to Window 10 from Window 7 .. its new is the only reason, Why
is Gnome 3 better, it has to be its is newer.

-pete sigh .. wonder if one can get CDE for Linux ?


On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Keith Lofstrom 
wrote:

> I've been to busy to fool with Gnome 3 for a while, but I'm
> assembling my "I really HATE this, how do I fix it?" list.
>
> I do not appreciate strangers rearranging my desktop papers.
>
> When I first encountered Linux and Gnome, years ago, I fell
> in love with virtual desktops and Gnome Original - I use 20
> virtuals, populated with many interlocking projects, and on
> a 2048x1536 laptop screen it is like having a physical desk
> 40 feet wide that I can navigate with a mouseclick.  Wow.
>
> Gnome 3, Gnome Classic, and Cinnamon /all/ share the same
> arrogant feature - "all your edges are belong to us".  Move
> the mouse to the upper left corner (where a full screen CAD
> tool might be using the pixels) and bang, you are in the
> desktop pager.  Move an xterm to the top or the edge, and
> it resizes across the screen.  How do I turn that stupid
> f***ing c**p OFF and get a simple, passive desktop again?
>
> MATE is Gnome 2 - I can live with their silly renaming of
> all the apps.  I suppose they had to avoid collisions when
> the Gnome 3 wrecking crew plowed through the namespace.  But
> I worry that without the active support of the major distros
> they will fail.  I've already run into rendering problems on
> the MATE login screen with one graphic chipset.  My distro
> of choice is stable, staid Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
> Scientific Linux variant, and for some reason RHEL chose
> Gnome 3 Classic as their principal offering.  I expect
> Red Hat's customers are NOT updating to RHEL7 in droves.
>
> I can live with new names, or some changes to the paradigm.
> If I can make some incarnation of Gnome 3 leave the damned
> edges alone, and do only what I tell it to with keyboard and
> mouse clicks, I can relearn how to work, and live with it.
>
> Is this possible?   Otherwise, will MATE get enough support
> to endure for a decade or two?  Or will I be stuck with
> changing to M$Bob\Gnome 3 in the future, anyway?
>
> The head of the Gnome project recently asked me for help
> with an unrelated issue, and it took all my self control
> to remain silent and NOT RIP HIS F***ING HEAD OFF, never
> mind helping.  Even Miguel de Icaza, the originator of
> Gnome, is using Mac OSX now.  Does it take a cattle prod
> to wake these zombies up?
>
> To summarize - commit to MATE, or try to repair Gnome 3?
>
> Keith
>
> --
> Keith Lofstrom  kei...@keithl.com
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Re: [PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Dick Steffens]

On 07/07/2015 11:41 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> Gnome 3, Gnome Classic, and Cinnamon /all/ share the same
> arrogant feature - "all your edges are belong to us".  Move
> the mouse to the upper left corner (where a full screen CAD
> tool might be using the pixels) and bang, you are in the
> desktop pager.  Move an xterm to the top or the edge, and
> it resizes across the screen.  How do I turn that stupid
> f***ing c**p OFF and get a simple, passive desktop again?

I remember dealing with something like this in Ubuntu. The solution was 
a setting in Compize. I don't know if it's the same in Mint, but here's 
what I did in Ubuntu 12.04 with (I think) Gnome Classic:

installed compizeconfig-settings-manager
 Window Management
 Place Windows
 Grid
 Change all resize actions to None.


-- 
Regards,

Dick Steffens

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[PLUG] Mate vs Gnome Classic with fixes

[Keith Lofstrom]

I've been to busy to fool with Gnome 3 for a while, but I'm 
assembling my "I really HATE this, how do I fix it?" list. 

I do not appreciate strangers rearranging my desktop papers.

When I first encountered Linux and Gnome, years ago, I fell
in love with virtual desktops and Gnome Original - I use 20
virtuals, populated with many interlocking projects, and on
a 2048x1536 laptop screen it is like having a physical desk
40 feet wide that I can navigate with a mouseclick.  Wow.

Gnome 3, Gnome Classic, and Cinnamon /all/ share the same
arrogant feature - "all your edges are belong to us".  Move
the mouse to the upper left corner (where a full screen CAD
tool might be using the pixels) and bang, you are in the 
desktop pager.  Move an xterm to the top or the edge, and
it resizes across the screen.  How do I turn that stupid
f***ing c**p OFF and get a simple, passive desktop again?

MATE is Gnome 2 - I can live with their silly renaming of
all the apps.  I suppose they had to avoid collisions when
the Gnome 3 wrecking crew plowed through the namespace.  But
I worry that without the active support of the major distros
they will fail.  I've already run into rendering problems on
the MATE login screen with one graphic chipset.  My distro
of choice is stable, staid Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
Scientific Linux variant, and for some reason RHEL chose
Gnome 3 Classic as their principal offering.  I expect
Red Hat's customers are NOT updating to RHEL7 in droves.  

I can live with new names, or some changes to the paradigm.
If I can make some incarnation of Gnome 3 leave the damned
edges alone, and do only what I tell it to with keyboard and
mouse clicks, I can relearn how to work, and live with it. 

Is this possible?   Otherwise, will MATE get enough support
to endure for a decade or two?  Or will I be stuck with
changing to M$Bob\Gnome 3 in the future, anyway?

The head of the Gnome project recently asked me for help
with an unrelated issue, and it took all my self control
to remain silent and NOT RIP HIS F***ING HEAD OFF, never
mind helping.  Even Miguel de Icaza, the originator of
Gnome, is using Mac OSX now.  Does it take a cattle prod
to wake these zombies up?

To summarize - commit to MATE, or try to repair Gnome 3?

Keith

-- 
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