Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinson plu...@robinson-west.comwrote: I run CentOS 5.3, I try to keep updated because it's CentOS and CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. People who run CentOS want something that just plain works and they don't expect to reinstall their operating system every 6 months or sooner. Ubuntu seems to be the most popular Linux distribution for desktops and it seems to be more current, but I'm not sure I like Ubuntu. I don't like having to maintain 2 different Linux distributions. Games like Dirk Dashing Secret Agent noticeably don't work quite right on CentOS. The latest release of Dirk Dashing doesn't seem to work at all on CentOS, I am not sure why. Where is Linux going in the future? What is getting the most attention right now across the board in general? Wine and ReactOS still have a long ways to go. Dirk Dashing is a native Linux program, but it doesn't work equally well on all Linux distributions. Are the various Linux distributions, enterprise and desktop editions, going to get closer in time features wise? Is there going to be a 2.8.xyz kernel soon? The kernels that CentOS uses stock are quite old as far as the 2.6 branch goes. I am using 2.6.18 and the current kernel is like 2.6.27 or something. In CentOS, the mesa drivers seem to be ancient. Graphics support in CentOS seems to be weak even if you have updated as far as you can. I'm wondering when CentOS 6 is going to come out? Enterprise Linux Distributions are supposed to be for people who need a system that just works. But do these distributions have to be so far behind the bleeding edge? I'm surprised there aren't repositories for CentOS to make it more bleeding edge so that you don't have to maintain a whole entire different Linux distribution. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug You have to decide what you want your machine to do and what you value more. If you value something super stable and not bleeding edge then something like CentOS is a good bet. Slackware is the same in many respects although that project isn't beholden to an upstream distro for updates in the vein of CentOS. I really stayed away from the Ubuntu train only because when I first tried is many many releases ago it just wasn't my thing. I have run more recent releases to play with and I do find it has really matured and supports all the things that I want to run/do. I am currently running Fedora 11 though and have found it to be stable, easy to work with and prompt with updates. So you're at the cross roads. Move to something else or stick with something you're familiar with. Unfortunately with the way open source and it's dependency and code re-use goes (which I find to be a good thing) .. changes with games and such aren't going to work on a distro that doesn't release the latest and greatest graphics updates. Drew- ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinsonplu...@robinson-west.com wrote: I run CentOS 5.3, I try to keep updated because it's CentOS and CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. People who run CentOS want something that just plain works and they don't expect to reinstall their operating system every 6 months or sooner. Ubuntu seems to be the most popular Linux distribution for desktops and it seems to be more current, but I'm not sure I like Ubuntu. I don't like having to maintain 2 different Linux distributions. Well, You could always use the LTS version of both server and desktop. snipped from website Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop: Released April 2008 and maintained until April 2011 – ideal for large deployments. Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Server: Released April 2008 and maintained until April 2013 – ideal for large deployments Games like Dirk Dashing Secret Agent noticeably don't work quite right on CentOS. The latest release of Dirk Dashing doesn't seem to work at all on CentOS, I am not sure why. Where is Linux going in the future? What is getting the most attention right now across the board in general? Wine and ReactOS still have a long ways to go. Dirk Dashing is a native Linux program, but it doesn't work equally well on all Linux distributions. Are the various Linux distributions, enterprise and desktop editions, going to get closer in time features wise? Is there going to be a 2.8.xyz kernel soon? The kernels that CentOS uses stock are quite old as far as the 2.6 branch goes. I am using 2.6.18 and the current kernel is like 2.6.27 or something. In CentOS, the mesa drivers seem to be ancient. Graphics support in CentOS seems to be weak even if you have updated as far as you can. I'm wondering when CentOS 6 is going to come out? Enterprise Linux Distributions are supposed to be for people who need a system that just works. But do these distributions have to be so far behind the bleeding edge? I'm surprised there aren't repositories for CentOS to make it more bleeding edge so that you don't have to maintain a whole entire different Linux distribution. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM, Larry Brigman larry.brig...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinsonplu...@robinson-west.com wrote: I run CentOS 5.3, I try to keep updated because it's CentOS and CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. People who run CentOS want something that just plain works and they don't expect to reinstall their operating system every 6 months or sooner. Ubuntu seems to be the most popular Linux distribution for desktops and it seems to be more current, but I'm not sure I like Ubuntu. I don't like having to maintain 2 different Linux distributions. Well, You could always use the LTS version of both server and desktop. snipped from website Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop: Released April 2008 and maintained until April 2011 – ideal for large deployments. Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Server: Released April 2008 and maintained until April 2013 – ideal for large deployments One of the nice advantages of CentOS piggy-backing on RHEL is that it is supported for what seems like forever. There is still a stable release of CentOS 3 with backports and updates. For these kind of distributions there should not be a 3 or 5 year cut off since the systems they are used to build will be running for much longer and need to be extremely stable. When you run CentOS you should thinking about uptime. (I wonder what distro google uses... ) ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
will be running for much longer and need to be extremely stable. When you run CentOS you should thinking about uptime. (I wonder what distro google uses... ) I brought a ubuntu system to a google office to offload a few gig of video files. I'll boot our gobuntu cd will be able to read your raid and write to the FS in our data center. That's all I know. I will let the reader extrapolate. -- Carl K ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Wed, September 2, 2009 8:53 am, Dan Colish wrote: On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM, Larry Brigman larry.brig...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinsonplu...@robinson-west.com wrote: I run CentOS 5.3, I try to keep updated because it's CentOS and CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. -- snip -- One of the nice advantages of CentOS piggy-backing on RHEL is that it is supported for what seems like forever. There is still a stable release of CentOS 3 with backports and updates. For these kind of distributions there should not be a 3 or 5 year cut off since the systems they are used to build will be running for much longer and need to be extremely stable. When you run CentOS you should thinking about uptime. (I wonder what distro google uses... ) Google is large enough that using it's own distribution could make economic sense -- since it's not distributing it 'out of house' I suspect that it could even keep it's own changes private, if it wanted to. But that's just supposition -- I'd like to know too. -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Land line: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Dan Colishdcol...@gmail.com wrote: run CentOS you should thinking about uptime. (I wonder what distro google uses... ) I was under the impression that Google largely uses its own customized Linux distro, though I'm not sure it can be called a distro if it isn't distributed ... in any case, I think Google's Linux is its own thing. Michael M. -- Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. --Thomas Jefferson ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
As a former Googler I can say we did use a custom Ubuntu called Goobuntu. No real secret sauce to it. Just bundled with some tools we used in house of course I can't say what because of that darned NDA :) Drew On 9/2/09, Tim Wescott t...@wescottdesign.com wrote: On Wed, September 2, 2009 8:53 am, Dan Colish wrote: On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM, Larry Brigman larry.brig...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinsonplu...@robinson-west.com wrote: I run CentOS 5.3, I try to keep updated because it's CentOS and CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. -- snip -- One of the nice advantages of CentOS piggy-backing on RHEL is that it is supported for what seems like forever. There is still a stable release of CentOS 3 with backports and updates. For these kind of distributions there should not be a 3 or 5 year cut off since the systems they are used to build will be running for much longer and need to be extremely stable. When you run CentOS you should thinking about uptime. (I wonder what distro google uses... ) Google is large enough that using it's own distribution could make economic sense -- since it's not distributing it 'out of house' I suspect that it could even keep it's own changes private, if it wanted to. But that's just supposition -- I'd like to know too. -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Land line: 503.631.7815 Cell: 503.349.8432 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Sent from my mobile device ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
Where is Linux going in the future? Well, I'm pretty sure a direction it's *not* going is toward One Distribution to Bind Them All, though Ubuntu is about as close as it gets. We're a very fractured community. If something seems works well one one distro, it's likely to be taken up by the others, but if we wanted to run the same thing everyone else is running, we wouldn't be using Linux to begin with. So why do you run Linux? Because you want to keep your skills sharp? Because you like the flexibility? For the freedom? Whatever it is, there's probably a distro that's best for those reasons. CentOS/RHEL is meant to run on servers. If you want to stick with the Red Hat paradigm, but trade some stability for desktop performance, then try Fedora. If you don't mind moving away from RPMs altogether and you want recent packages with a large community and a lot of support, then Ubuntu is the obvious choice. If you want to micromanage your computer and you don't mind stuff breaking whenever you upgrade, then give Gentoo a try. Burn yourself some LiveCDs. Just about every major distribution has a LiveCD that will run the OS free of commitment. -Nick ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Nick Aubertnickaub...@gmail.com wrote: Burn yourself some LiveCDs. Just about every major distribution has a LiveCD that will run the OS free of commitment. And then there are virtual environments where you can run them all. Regards, - Robert ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Michael Robinson plu...@robinson-west.comwrote: CentOS sadly is way behind as far as Linux distributions go. Indeed. People who run CentOS want something that just plain works and they don't expect to reinstall their operating system every 6 months or sooner. So too do those in the Debian Stable crowd, but their lives are more functional, more manageable, and more full of joy. Ubuntu seems to be the most popular Linux distribution for desktops and it seems to be more current, but I'm not sure I like Ubuntu. I don't like having to maintain 2 different Linux distributions. I think it's nearly fair to say that Ubuntu has pretty much killed everything else in the Desktop arena. Except for a few rogue funbois who still play with other stuff (e.g. lots of people on this list.) Games like Dirk Dashing Secret Agent noticeably don't work quite right on CentOS. The latest release of Dirk Dashing doesn't seem to work at all on CentOS, I am not sure why. Using the mesa driver probably isn't helping. Where is Linux going in the future? What is getting the most attention right now across the board in general? Ubuntu. Wine and ReactOS still have a long ways to go. You can look at it that way. really, I think these projects should be abandoned and that development should be invested into our native applications. Dirk Dashing is a native Linux program, but it doesn't work equally well on all Linux distributions. Are the various Linux distributions, enterprise and desktop editions, going to get closer in time features wise? Is there going to be a 2.8.xyz kernel soon? Probably. They'll all run apt* package management and look like [KX]?Ubuntu. The kernels that CentOS uses stock are quite old as far as the 2.6 branch goes. I am using 2.6.18 and the current kernel is like 2.6.27 or something. In CentOS, the mesa drivers seem to be ancient. Boy, that is ancient. You should run Fedora, if you like the redhat thing. FC11 is at 2.6.29 right now. Debian Stable is at 2.6.26, and Ubuntu Latest is at 2.6.28. Graphics support in CentOS seems to be weak even if you have updated as far as you can. I'm wondering when CentOS 6 is going to come out? Whenever RHEL6 does -- likely not in the next year. http://lwn.net/Articles/286885/ Enterprise Linux Distributions are supposed to be for people who need a system that just works. But do these distributions have to be so far behind the bleeding edge? I'm surprised there aren't repositories for CentOS to make it more bleeding edge so that you don't have to maintain I think you're talking about Fedora. Or Debian Stable if you don't like the Red Hat thing. I don't. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
centos is based on redhat enterprise. and very few enterprise shops are going to care about running games or even having opengl. they care about running web, mail, database, etc services. and they want those things to not have interface changes over a long lifetime. so redhat picks a stable version of the various tools and does a lot of work to backport security and bug fixes to that original version so that your core enterprise functionality is not impacted. only recently have they decided that upgrading firefox is better than trying to patch things because that kind of program doesn't need the same level of stability as sendmail, apache, mysql, etc. ubuntu is certainly more desktop friendly. so is fedora. but fedora is not sanity friendly because they go to the other end of the spectrum and grab the latest and greatest toys and throw them in the blender and hope that enough alcohol will kill the taste :-). i have only recently started running ubuntu on a netbook, and since i don't really get under the hood very much, that works fine for me. thunderbird, firefox, ssh all work like i expect. but i run centos on every server i deal with. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Russell Johnson ru...@dimstar.net wrote: On Sep 1, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Jameson Williams wrote: The kernels that CentOS uses stock are quite old as far as the 2.6 branch goes. I am using 2.6.18 and the current kernel is like 2.6.27 or something. In CentOS, the mesa drivers seem to be ancient. Boy, that is ancient. You should run Fedora, if you like the redhat thing. FC11 is at 2.6.29 right now. Debian Stable is at 2.6.26, and Ubuntu Latest is at 2.6.28. You have to understand the ideology behind the distro before comparing it. CentOS has a stated goal to be as like RHEL as possible, without infringing on Redhat IP. RHEL has a stated goal to be stable for two years. Stable is defined as, What ran on RHEL 5.2 at release will run on RHEL 5.2 with all updates. (I'm paraphrasing... ) They don't release kernel updates unless there is a compelling reason to do so. Most kernel updates will wait until the next major update of the OS. Basically, CentOS will release kernel updates when RHEL publishes kernel updates. They would be subverting their own stated objectives if they were to release their own kernel update. Fedora, on the other hand, is the Redhat playground. It's not stable, not for production, shouldn't be used for 'real work'. YMMV. None of what I have stated in this message should be considered as gospel, or as a statement from, about, pro, or con against any particular distribution. I'm simply restating, in my own way. Constructive comments welcome. Flames and/or distro-war fodder / dev/null. if( STDFLAME_FILENO != open( centos_complaints, O_CREAT ) ) exit( EXIT_FAILURE ); I agree with what you have said, in so far as it is similar to what I have read and believe to be the common view of the topic. In practice, the CentOS machines I've used (often without root access) for real work have been out of date to the point of hindering productivity. As you start compiling more and more recent versions of things you need, ~/ starts to look like /. Additionally, I have not found that open bugs in Fedora Core have created problems either. As a general rule of thumb, my opinion is that Fedora (CURRENT_RELEASE - 1) is usually better than whatever CentOS is doing. CentOS is fine for servers that humans don't actually directly use, I suppose: content servers, etc. Lousy for a build/development machine, though. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Linux distributions concern...
On Sep 1, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Larry Brigman wrote: Yet approx every 6 months they release a major update. RHEL 5.3 was released in Feb 09. 5.4 is in beta now with expected release late Sept or early Oct. They do major back ports to support newer hardware. We have RHEL 5.3 running on IBM I7 hardware with 10Gb interfaces. And, as implied in my first message, ALL updates that RHEL has released that do not violate the IP of RH, have in turn been released for CentOS. Russell Johnson ru...@dimstar.net ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
