Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
On 06/15/2018 04:32 PM, logical american wrote: > Hi all: > > I've been quoted $263/month for a small locked cabinet (15U) space with > 1 power plug 110v AC and a business class internet connection. > > Is this price typical? > > I am looking for Vancouver WA first, then Portland OR second. This is my > very first time in trying to locate space for a small server. > > Randall > Sorry for the response delay. I unplugged via camping a few days. Thanks to M. Barnes for dragging everyone back on topic. How much the coo will cost depends on (1) Rack space or cabinet size; 15U is about 1/3 cabinet IIRC. (2) Power used (3) data transfer and bandwidth. (4) physical security (5) 24/7 access and a few others I might be forgetting. 15U is a fairly big space. Don't pay for empty space. Do you need your own locked cabinet (for a rack mount sever) or is a private locked cage OK for a full tower-style server? "1 power plug 110v AC" means next to nothing. What is the Wattage your server is expected to pull running at full tilt? If that is a 10KW cabinet do you need that much? "business class internet" is a bit vague. How fast and how much access to you need? 100Mbps? 1Gbps? 1TB or 100+TB data/month? Look for "carrier neutral" facilities. Of course, high connection redundancy comes at a price...as does speed and data. Building access 8am-5pm escorted will be cheaper than 24/7 unsupervised. Do you need the facility to be complaint with any Federal regulations? All that said, the PDX going base rate for 14U/15U seems to be $249-$325 plus any additional services, as far as I can gather (not everyone publishes open price lists). I'm toying with moving my hobby domains and servers to either a 1U/2U rack (~$75-99/month) or mini tower cage (~$99/month) so I can avoid fiddling with dynamic DNS on my residential comcast connection. Economy colo is also a bit cheaper since I don't need any extra security. I haven't figured out how to monetize said hobby, so still just looking at this point. The 2 places I've considered so far are Portland Colo (Spiretech) and DirectSpace Networks. Have Fun! Ed signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Michael Rasmussen wrote: To stress "As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM" - at my final job before retirement (Large bank, Fortune 500, etc) everything possible was migrated to in-house VMs. I want to say mail services were an early migration. In any case, the entire mail infrastructure was run on virtual servers. There's no need for a physical server. This is your opinion. We're not trying to determine if a VM is capable of running *a* mail server. We're trying to determine what the requirements of *his* mail server are, because that drives whether a physical server is required. There may be a security requirement such as "no AES key leakage to other tenants". In this case, he may not be able to use a VM. There are people in the crypto community who believe that any system that needs secure crypto should not be virtualized. I need a secure crypto system, hence physical. Too much can go wrong with a virtual system. Who really owns the virtual system? Not you! ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
You can just split the cost with other people. $17.54 a U. Might go up if you put in enough equipment to need custom power or something. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 3:05 PM Ben Koenig wrote: > Running a physical server has advantages in all areas. Randall didn't > actually mention his use case. Does anyone know of any such services in the > area? > > It could be anything from security, government regulations, performance, > and even education. Don't assume you know what he is looking for without > even asking. I would also like to know if there are any local COLO options. > Mostly because of my interest in OS configurations. For me personally, I'd > rather have control of my server OS from an education and hobby > perspective. How much I spend on my hobby or business is my responsibility. > > > Those virtual servers you are so excited about run on physical hardware. At > the end of the day SOMEONE has to run bare metal. Or we can have a moment > of silence for all the docker containers that will vanish when the world's > last server fails to POST. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:50 PM, Daniel Johnson > wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:50 PM Tomas Kuchta > > > wrote: > > > > > I have heard that security versus physical HW in colo argument so many > > > times. > > > > > > In my opinion, a padlock is way less secure than well implemented > crypto. > > > > > > The only security benefit I see from physical HW would be hosting it on > > > premises - if your threat vector is suponea. Both VM or HW in colo can > be > > > legally accessed without your knowledge, which shouldn't be possible > when > > > hosting on premises. > > > > > > Cost or special snowflake HW would be another consideration. If one > gets > > to > > > rent 15U for $300 a month and if you can fully utilize that volume - > you > > > could save considerable $$ in certain load scenarios. > > > > > > Just my thoughts on possible value of real HW outside mainstream and > > > home/office. > > > > > > Tomas > > > > > > > > > If you want a cheap > > > > subpoena resistant setup. > > > > > > > https://github.com/privacylabs/oasis > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 12:41 PM Louis Kowolowski < > lou...@cryptomonkeys.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Michael Rasmussen < > > mich...@michaelsnet.us > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > To stress "As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM" - > > at > > > > my final job before retirement (Large bank, Fortune 500, etc) > > everything > > > > possible was migrated to in-house VMs. > > > > > I want to say mail services were an early migration. In any case, > the > > > > entire mail infrastructure was run on virtual servers. > > > > > > > > > > There's no need for a physical server. > > > > > > > > > This is your opinion. We're not trying to determine if a VM is > capable > > of > > > > running *a* mail server. We're trying to determine what the > > requirements > > > of > > > > *his* mail server are, because that drives whether a physical server > is > > > > required. > > > > > > > > There may be a security requirement such as "no AES key leakage to > > other > > > > tenants". In this case, he may not be able to use a VM. There are > > people > > > in > > > > the crypto community who believe that any system that needs secure > > crypto > > > > should not be virtualized. > > > > > > > > Again, I'm trying to gather what the requirements are before stating > > what > > > > the solution is. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Louis Kowolowski > > lou...@cryptomonkeys.org > > > > Cryptomonkeys: > > > > http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ > > > > > > > > Making life more interesting for people since 1977 > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > PLUG mailing list > > > > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > > > ___ > > > PLUG mailing list > > > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > ___ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 1:50 PM Tomas Kuchta wrote: > I have heard that security versus physical HW in colo argument so many > times. > > In my opinion, a padlock is way less secure than well implemented crypto. > > The only security benefit I see from physical HW would be hosting it on > premises - if your threat vector is suponea. Both VM or HW in colo can be > legally accessed without your knowledge, which shouldn't be possible when > hosting on premises. > > Cost or special snowflake HW would be another consideration. If one gets to > rent 15U for $300 a month and if you can fully utilize that volume - you > could save considerable $$ in certain load scenarios. > > Just my thoughts on possible value of real HW outside mainstream and > home/office. > > Tomas > > > If you want a cheap subpoena resistant setup. > https://github.com/privacylabs/oasis > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 12:41 PM Louis Kowolowski > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Michael Rasmussen > > > wrote: > > > > > > To stress "As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM" - at > > my final job before retirement (Large bank, Fortune 500, etc) everything > > possible was migrated to in-house VMs. > > > I want to say mail services were an early migration. In any case, the > > entire mail infrastructure was run on virtual servers. > > > > > > There's no need for a physical server. > > > > > This is your opinion. We're not trying to determine if a VM is capable of > > running *a* mail server. We're trying to determine what the requirements > of > > *his* mail server are, because that drives whether a physical server is > > required. > > > > There may be a security requirement such as "no AES key leakage to other > > tenants". In this case, he may not be able to use a VM. There are people > in > > the crypto community who believe that any system that needs secure crypto > > should not be virtualized. > > > > Again, I'm trying to gather what the requirements are before stating what > > the solution is. > > > > -- > > Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org > > Cryptomonkeys: > > http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ > > > > Making life more interesting for people since 1977 > > > > ___ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
I have heard that security versus physical HW in colo argument so many times. In my opinion, a padlock is way less secure than well implemented crypto. The only security benefit I see from physical HW would be hosting it on premises - if your threat vector is suponea. Both VM or HW in colo can be legally accessed without your knowledge, which shouldn't be possible when hosting on premises. Cost or special snowflake HW would be another consideration. If one gets to rent 15U for $300 a month and if you can fully utilize that volume - you could save considerable $$ in certain load scenarios. Just my thoughts on possible value of real HW outside mainstream and home/office. Tomas On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 12:41 PM Louis Kowolowski wrote: > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Michael Rasmussen > wrote: > > > > To stress "As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM" - at > my final job before retirement (Large bank, Fortune 500, etc) everything > possible was migrated to in-house VMs. > > I want to say mail services were an early migration. In any case, the > entire mail infrastructure was run on virtual servers. > > > > There's no need for a physical server. > > > This is your opinion. We're not trying to determine if a VM is capable of > running *a* mail server. We're trying to determine what the requirements of > *his* mail server are, because that drives whether a physical server is > required. > > There may be a security requirement such as "no AES key leakage to other > tenants". In this case, he may not be able to use a VM. There are people in > the crypto community who believe that any system that needs secure crypto > should not be virtualized. > > Again, I'm trying to gather what the requirements are before stating what > the solution is. > > -- > Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org > Cryptomonkeys: > http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ > > Making life more interesting for people since 1977 > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
> On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > > To stress "As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM" - at my > final job before retirement (Large bank, Fortune 500, etc) everything > possible was migrated to in-house VMs. > I want to say mail services were an early migration. In any case, the entire > mail infrastructure was run on virtual servers. > > There's no need for a physical server. > This is your opinion. We're not trying to determine if a VM is capable of running *a* mail server. We're trying to determine what the requirements of *his* mail server are, because that drives whether a physical server is required. There may be a security requirement such as "no AES key leakage to other tenants". In this case, he may not be able to use a VM. There are people in the crypto community who believe that any system that needs secure crypto should not be virtualized. Again, I'm trying to gather what the requirements are before stating what the solution is. -- Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org Cryptomonkeys: http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ Making life more interesting for people since 1977 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
What requirements are leading to the physical space? As others have suggested, you may be able to use a VM, which could be much cheaper ($5/10/mo perhaps). If you do need space for a physical machine, that doesn't sound too unreasonable (depending on where you're looking, you may be able to find something cheaper). You may be able to quibble over exactly what internet connection you get, depending on requirements. > On Jun 15, 2018, at 6:32 PM, logical american > wrote: > > Hi all: > > I've been quoted $263/month for a small locked cabinet (15U) space with 1 > power plug 110v AC and a business class internet connection. > > Is this price typical? > > I am looking for Vancouver WA first, then Portland OR second. This is my very > first time in trying to locate space for a small server. > > Randall > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Louis Kowolowskilou...@cryptomonkeys.org Cryptomonkeys: http://www.cryptomonkeys.com/ Making life more interesting for people since 1977 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
I would also encourage you to look for virtual machine - it is easier, the choice is excellent and it is portable - you can move if you need to far easier. About your original question - the price you were quoted looks OK to me. 15U is huge - it would fit pretty sizable setup such as 14x 1U 2xCPU, 1TB RAM + 4Hdd DL360 servers + 1U network switch. You could do quite a bit of work/revenue with that. I would imagine that small and cheap Colo setup would fit to 1U, not 15U. Hope it helps, Tomas On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 6:31 PM Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On 2018-06-15 16:32, logical american wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > I've been quoted $263/month for a small locked cabinet (15U) space > > with 1 power plug 110v AC and a business class internet connection. > > > > Is this price typical? > > > > I am looking for Vancouver WA first, then Portland OR second. This is > > my very first time in trying to locate space for a small server. > > Consider using a virtual server instead of a physical one. Ramnode and > Linnode are two providers I've had very good experience with. > > -- >Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon > Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
On 2018-06-15 16:32, logical american wrote: Hi all: I've been quoted $263/month for a small locked cabinet (15U) space with 1 power plug 110v AC and a business class internet connection. Is this price typical? I am looking for Vancouver WA first, then Portland OR second. This is my very first time in trying to locate space for a small server. Consider using a virtual server instead of a physical one. Ramnode and Linnode are two providers I've had very good experience with. -- Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] looking for secure space for a mail server
Hi all: I've been quoted $263/month for a small locked cabinet (15U) space with 1 power plug 110v AC and a business class internet connection. Is this price typical? I am looking for Vancouver WA first, then Portland OR second. This is my very first time in trying to locate space for a small server. Randall ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
