RE: Hamachi - not the fish...

[Lisa Kachold]

Advanced PLUG HackFest members JLaforge and SLofgren started using hamachi to 
test Backtrack3 features and functions together remotely, in a "Hack to Learn" 
way.

The PLUG December HackFest is a remote hamachi fest, allowing everyone to 
interact.

I like Hamachi very much; because it's easier to use than setting up a tun 
using ip:

Create ipip tunnel interface:


# ip tunnel add tun0 mode ipip \\
> remote 200.200.200.200 local 100.100.100.100 dev eth0

  
Set interface IP addresses:


# ifconfig tun0 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.252 \\
> pointopoint 10.0.0.2


Set interface MTU and bring interface up:


# ifconfig tun0 mtu 1500 up
And allows for network sharing to their server under linux or Windows or Mac.

We do recently run out of connections in the pluglabs network on hamachi, 
however.

www.Obnosis.com |  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:obnosis |
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=obnosis (503)754-4452
Catch the January PLUG HackFest!   Kristy Westphal, CSO for the Arizona 
Department of Economic

Security will provide a one hour
presentation on forensics 1/10/09 at UAT.edu.

> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:36:23 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Hamachi - not the fish...
> 
> I have been reading about and experimenting with the hamachi VPN tools
> and so far while just useing some very basic settings in windows it is
> working well.
> 
> Has anyone tried useing this on a linux machine yet?
> 
> additionally what are peoples thoughts on this applicaiton has anyone
> used it at all?
> 
> My current list of reading, in no particular order:
> http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-018.htm
> http://hamachi.bm48.com/
> http://logmeinwiki.com/wiki/Hamachi:Synchronize_Microsoft_Active_Directory_Domain_Controllers
> http://logmeinwiki.com/wiki/Hamachi:Routed_Tunneling_/_Bridging_Networks_Together
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamachi
> 
> Let me know ifyou find anything good or bad that really should be brought up..
> 
> 
> thanks for your time!
> 
> -- 
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
> 
> Stephen
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Alex Dean]

On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Stephen P Rufle wrote:


http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Stop_holding_our_kids_back

Interesting article about how a teacher took away Linux disks from a  
kid

who was passing them out.


I think the poster took the wrong tone with his reply to that  
teacher.  Things like "you've been trained well" are just calculated  
to insult.  If I were receiving a letter like that, I'd be done  
listening to this guy.  A rant feels good when you write it, but it  
doesn't convince anyone of anything.


The teacher he's addressing obviously not aware of open source and  
what it is, but that's a pretty common thing outside of technology  
communities.  If our attitude towards such people is going to be "You  
are obviously idiots!", I'm afraid we aren't going to advance the  
goals of Free Software very effectively.


It would have made a lot more sense to me to say "I can see why you'd  
be concerned about kids passing around copies of downloaded software,  
since copying things like Word is definitely illegal.  But there's a  
whole world of software that doesn't work that way, and Linux is from  
that world.  Let me show you how that can benefit your students..."


alex


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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Josef Lowder]

Good thoughts, Alex.
Yours is a much better response.
I regret that my own response was far less constructive.

Joe

On 12/10/08, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Stephen P Rufle wrote:
> > http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Stop_holding_our_kids_back
> >
> > Interesting article about how a teacher took away Linux disks from a kid
> > who was passing them out.

>  I think the poster took the wrong tone with his reply to that teacher.
> Things like "you've been trained well" are just calculated to insult.  If I
> were receiving a letter like that, I'd be done listening to this guy.  A
> rant feels good when you write it, but it doesn't convince anyone of
> anything.
>
>  The teacher he's addressing obviously not aware of open source and what it
> is, but that's a pretty common thing outside of technology communities.  If
> our attitude towards such people is going to be "You are obviously idiots!",
> I'm afraid we aren't going to advance the goals of Free Software very
> effectively.
>
>  It would have made a lot more sense to me to say "I can see why you'd be
> concerned about kids passing around copies of downloaded software, since
> copying things like Word is definitely illegal.  But there's a whole world
> of software that doesn't work that way, and Linux is from that world.  Let
> me show you how that can benefit your students..."
>
>  alex
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Judd Pickell]

I agree, the poster was a bit more negative than positive in regards to
getting his point across. However there were two comments in his thread that
would be wonderful for him to take to the Superintendent's office during the
conference. Once was the information from the Finland school district that
was able to increase their computer to student ratio with only a minimal
investment of 42k (Euros for them) reusing old hardware and even expanding
the setup to the other local community schools as well. That is just
awesome. The second one would be the guy that apparently worked "the other
side", and he was right about correcting the poster's judgments of the NEA.

I do have to wonder how many of us Linux gurus work for the school systems?
How many of us are in positions where we could affect the change, or even
prove the change would work? How many of us would take a cut in pay to go do
that job? It really is a difficult situation, and I don't forsee any changes
coming soon unless there is a sudden change in graduates from CS schools
being mostly linux, and not mostly windows founded.

In a country in which children's information is held (or is supposed to be
held) so secretive, can we really trust a fully FOSS setup, or would it make
more sense to have a small set of subprograms that handled such sensitive
data not be FOSS?

Anyways, great material for discussion, and definitley not OT.

Sincerely,
Judd Pickell
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Alex Dean]

On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:41 AM, Judd Pickell wrote:

In a country in which children's information is held (or is supposed  
to be held) so secretive, can we really trust a fully FOSS setup, or  
would it make more sense to have a small set of subprograms that  
handled such sensitive data not be FOSS?


Hm.  I think you need to distinguish between software and data here.   
If my social security number is held in a MySQL database, then anyone  
can have access to the MySQL source code due to the GPL.  That does  
not mean anyone has a right to access to my social security number.   
They're entirely separate concepts.


The problems of electronic voting machines shows that we need open  
code even more strongly when it comes to securing sensitive data.   
Closed source does not equal secure code.  I'm totally convinced of  
that argument.


alex


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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[dorian . monroe]

Just to defend teachers, many are not as technically savvy as most on this 
list.  Sure they may not understand the concept of FOSS (entirely different 
acronym than my wife is familiar with in Science, btw. Related to her 
curriculum).  They've got more to deal with than kids passing out linux disks, 
which should be done during their free/non-instruction time and not in the 
classroom.  The teacher mentioned that she used Linux in college, and yes it 
has advanced astronomically since that time in ease of use and in the amount of 
useful quality software that is available.  True, true...  This demonstration 
by the student was a disruption in the classroom and was handled appropriately. 
 Just the same as if someone was showing off a new iPod or cell phone in class. 
 

Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made up just to 
spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!  :)   Just smells 
a little fishy to me... 



Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:48:06 
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back


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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Mike Hoy]

> Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made up just to 
> spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!  :)   Just 
> smells a little fishy to me...

I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made up just 
>> to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!  :)   Just 
>> smells a little fishy to me...
>
> I was thinking the exact same thing.

  Same here... the story seems very fabricated.

  -jmz
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Alex Dean]

On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made  
up just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having  
now!  :)   Just smells a little fishy to me...


I was thinking the exact same thing.


 Same here... the story seems very fabricated.



Could be.  But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude  
that the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite  
real, and a problem that many of us suffer from.


I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates  
are poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and  
relate to.  That was the point of my initial comment, and I think  
valid regardless of the underlying facts of this particular story.   
Don't tell people why they're wrong/misguided/stupid.  It only turns  
people off.  Focus on what's good about what you're doing, not what's  
bad about what they're doing.


alex


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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[James Finstrom]

Now I have only been out of public schools for about a decade but I was in
school when computers were a novelty and not a normality. In Junior High and
High school I creatively reallocated the schools network to my own liking
which brought on a "technology policy" so the schools are typically a few
years behind the curve as with all IT the limited budget  money is better
spent elsewhere until something arises where they have to spend money there.
The point is through school I saw a progression from no computers in school
to a small computer lab for the whole school to at least 2 in every
classroom. It wasn't until late in high school that I saw Microsoft in the
schools. For the most part all the computer progression in the schools was
from apple.  So I would not really give in Microsoft conspiracy. In the
words of Linus, "I don't try to be a threat to Microsoft, mainly because I
don't really see MS as competition. Especially not Windows-the goals of
Linux and Windows are simply so different."

I think the numbers game is cool and all as the user base grows so does
support from hardware vendors but at the same time often the reverse
engineers do a better job on the drivers then the OEM.


James Finstrom
Rhino Equipment Corp.
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Linux HackFest Series: Evil /etc/hosts file

[Lisa Kachold]

Trust is the basis for all security.

The "evil" /etc/hosts file would look like this:

# /etc/hosts 
127.0.0.1hostname localhost localhost.localdomain

# end

A good /etc/hosts file appears:

# /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost localhost.localdomain
192.168.6.66   hostname

# end

The evil hosts file allows postgresql.conf, (psql/pgadmin), my.cnf (phpmyadmin) 
and php.ini or Apache httpd.conf  or  trust to be served 
from anyone using the hostname.  The evil hosts file is also an especially 
dangerous SAMBA, X11 and NFS configuration  "hack" often seen in encroached 
systems.  Some of the more creative additional hacks seen in the /etc/hosts 
file include ALT 255 Null ACSII characters before the second line FQDN hostname 
so it does not load.

Most developers and pentesters know it's trivial to use the /etc/hosts (and 
127.0.0.1 localhost) as a proxy for MetaSploit, or local code testing; this 
hack in production servers is the same demonstrated behavior yet not controlled 
for layered OSI Browser to layer 2 security behavior [and certainly "EVIL"]!

An additional "use" of the /etc/host file includes sending all requests from 
rogue sites for 3rd party cookies that are known to contain dangerous bots or 
email virus, and javascript plugins to the localhost address via /etc/hosts.
 
The following site maintains a good updated /etc/hosts file for browsers:

http://www.hosts-file.net/?s=Download

You just cat that file to the end of your /etc/hosts file:

# cat hosts.download >> /etc/hosts 

Then edit to suit.

www.Obnosis.com |  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:obnosis |
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=obnosis (503)754-4452
Catch the January PLUG HackFest!   Kristy Westphal, CSO for the Arizona 
Department of Economic
Security will provide a one hour
presentation on forensics 1/10/09 at UAT.edu.



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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made up
 just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!  :)
 Just smells a little fishy to me...
>>>
>>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
>>
>>  Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
>
>
> Could be.  But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude that
> the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite real, and a
> problem that many of us suffer from.

  well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
some sophomoric linux user.  Note that there are no sources, no real
names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
make out what it is).  Ive seen totally false stories like this
propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.

  -jmz

>
> I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates are
> poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate to.
>  That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid regardless of
> the underlying facts of this particular story.  Don't tell people why
> they're wrong/misguided/stupid.  It only turns people off.  Focus on what's
> good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're doing.
>
> alex
>
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RE: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Bob Elzer]

I thought his reply was perfect, I would have berated her.

She is obvious not a good teacher, she has a prejudiced view of linux.

On one hand she says she tried it in college, and the other says it is
illegal, and there is no such thing as free software. 

Before I threaten to PURSUE CHARGES, I would do research FIRST.

Whether she is ignorant, or just one of the borg, you don't scold a student
for wanting to learn.

And she is the one that needs to learn, that this is not just a windows
world, that servers are what keep the world turning. Someone who goes on a
rant like that needs to be TAUGHT A LESSON.

LOL



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex
Dean
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:48 AM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back


On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Stephen P Rufle wrote:

> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Stop_holding_our_kids_back
>
> Interesting article about how a teacher took away Linux disks from a 
> kid who was passing them out.

I think the poster took the wrong tone with his reply to that teacher.
Things like "you've been trained well" are just calculated to insult.  If I
were receiving a letter like that, I'd be done listening to this guy.  A
rant feels good when you write it, but it doesn't convince anyone of
anything.

The teacher he's addressing obviously not aware of open source and what it
is, but that's a pretty common thing outside of technology communities.  If
our attitude towards such people is going to be "You are obviously idiots!",
I'm afraid we aren't going to advance the goals of Free Software very
effectively.

It would have made a lot more sense to me to say "I can see why you'd be
concerned about kids passing around copies of downloaded software, since
copying things like Word is definitely illegal.  But there's a whole world
of software that doesn't work that way, and Linux is from that world.  Let
me show you how that can benefit your students..."

alex

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RE: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Bob Elzer]

I agree that taking a polite and tactful approach is the way to teach people
the benefits of using linux, but the attitude of the teacher writing this
make me believe that tact wouldn't work, and ultimately sitting down with
her would.

Whether the story is true or not, not putting the schools info or teachers
name on the blog isn't a sign of a false story, I just think he is trying to
protect the teacher and the school, and not making this a personal attack on
them. 

There are people with this attitude, and trying to reason with them is like
trying to reason with a drunk person, it can't be done.

Sitting down with the superintendent, just may be the way to enlighten
everyone.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua
Zeidner
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:31 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made 
 up just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having 
 now!  :) Just smells a little fishy to me...
>>>
>>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
>>
>>  Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
>
>
> Could be.  But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude 
> that the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite 
> real, and a problem that many of us suffer from.

  well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating this
effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by some
sophomoric linux user.  Note that there are no sources, no real names, what
looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't make out what it
is).  Ive seen totally false stories like this propagate through the net, so
I have my doubts.

  -jmz

>
> I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates 
> are poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate
to.
>  That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid 
> regardless of the underlying facts of this particular story.  Don't 
> tell people why they're wrong/misguided/stupid.  It only turns people 
> off.  Focus on what's good about what you're doing, not what's bad about
what they're doing.
>
> alex
>
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SSH to GNOME keyring

[der.hans]

moin moin,

after and upgrade to Intrepid, SSH ( run from a shell in screen ) is
popping up a gnome-keyring GUI asking for the password to unlock a private
key.

This is essentially a DoS in addition to being annoying on many levels.

Since I run it from screen and don't actually look at that desktop very
often, I didn't realize there was a GUI waiting for a response. There
should not have been.

Once I detected the GUI I notice it refuses to yield focus. Double-bad.
Ah, it'll yeild the focus, but not the keyboard. Even more double-bad.

DISPLAY is not set, so there should be no GUI popping up for any reason.

I generally run this particular command remotely, so knowing that a GUI
popped up doesn't really help. Well, I can kill the GUI via another shell
should I remember what the problem is.

Any suggestions on how to turn this GUI off?

I can remove ssh-askpass-gnome and break ubuntu-desktop.

I can remove id_dsa.

In other circumstances neither of those would be an option. I suppose I
could use -i to specify a non-existent identity file, but intentionally
breaking things generally seems like the wrong solution.

ciao,

der.hans
-- 
#  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
#  I've got a photographic memory,
#  but I'm lousy photographer. - der.hans
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RE: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Lisa Kachold]

> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
> 
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  Personally I believe that this blog is false.  I think it was made up
>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!  :)
>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
> >>>
> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
> >>
> >>  Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
> >
> >
> > Could be.  But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude that
> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite real, and a
> > problem that many of us suffer from.
> 
>   well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
> some sophomoric linux user.  Note that there are no sources, no real
> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
> make out what it is).  Ive seen totally false stories like this
> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> >
> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates are
> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate to.
> >  That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid regardless of
> > the underlying facts of this particular story.  Don't tell people why
> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid.  It only turns people off.  Focus on what's
> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're doing.
> >
> > alex
> >

Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!



_
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was made up
>>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!
>>  :)
>>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
>> >>>
>> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
>> >>
>> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
>> >
>> >
>> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude
>> > that
>> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite real,
>> > and a
>> > problem that many of us suffer from.
>>
>> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
>> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
>> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
>> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
>> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
>> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
>> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
>>
>> -jmz
>>
>> >
>> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates are
>> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate
>> > to.
>> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid regardless
>> > of
>> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell people why
>> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
>> > what's
>> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're doing.
>> >
>> > alex
>> >
>
> Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!

  awesome picture.  I wonder if those things are genetically related to Furbys.

  an interesting thing I've noticed in recent years is that 'troll'
has come to be used interchangeably with 'someone who doesnt agree
with me'.

  -jmz
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Alan Dayley]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!

While it would not surprise me if the story turns out to be fake, I
still find it believable.

Over the years I have encountered real-life people in the Gilbert
Public School system and in business that are like the teacher in this
story.  I had a brief discussion with one gentleman who was completely
adamant that MS was the only way, FLOSS == communism and actually used
the phrase that "Linux would hold our kids back."  He was quite
serious and I dropped the conversation simply to stop the vitriol.

Another example: The Boy Scouts of America Computers Merit Badge book
has a section on copyrights.  It states that "copying any software is
against the law," (or words to that effect) which is, of course,
false.  This shows an ignorance of copyright principles and
possibilities in an otherwise acceptable book for teaching technology
to children.  That such ideas exist in school systems around the world
should be expected.  If a teacher was told that all copying of
software was illegal without balancing information, they might react
by confiscating CDs.

Combining such ignorant and intolerant beliefs in a teacher with a
power-trip attitude could easily result in the actions and words
described in the article.  Of this I have no doubt.

Alan
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[James Mcphee]

Hmm...  Whether or not the story is real doesn't really affect us one way or
the other.  I believe we can all agree that the action taken in this
possibly fictitious account is not a good example of how to advance the FOSS
cause.

In the discussion, though, it seems that people have seen problems with
educators needing educating about the alternatives to MS.  Does anyone know
any good material that doesn't speak down to the lay-person?  I've found
that most people, and cash-strapped educators particularly, are open to new
information if presented in a non-threatening and non-confrontational
manner.

MS dumps billions into advertising with little to counter it.  It's no
wonder the average joe/jane has a skewed perception of history and their
current options.  I think having a simple response to someone spouting the
MS tagline would be beneficial to the cause.  Something like "Please visit
intelligent-sounding-site-name.com if you want to hear the other side of the
story."  I've looked a bit, and most of the FOSS propoganda can best be
described as erudite and at worst, rabid.  Does anyone know of a good site
that can be referenced to ejumacate folks?

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> 
> >>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was made
> up
> >>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having
> now!
> >>  :)
> >>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude
> >> > that
> >> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite real,
> >> > and a
> >> > problem that many of us suffer from.
> >>
> >> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
> >> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
> >> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
> >> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
> >> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
> >> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
> >> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
> >>
> >> -jmz
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates
> are
> >> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate
> >> > to.
> >> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid regardless
> >> > of
> >> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell people why
> >> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
> >> > what's
> >> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're doing.
> >> >
> >> > alex
> >> >
> >
> > Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!
>
>   awesome picture.  I wonder if those things are genetically related to
> Furbys.
>
>  an interesting thing I've noticed in recent years is that 'troll'
> has come to be used interchangeably with 'someone who doesnt agree
> with me'.
>
>  -jmz
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>



-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: SSH to GNOME keyring

[James Mcphee]

Google-foo says

gconftool-2 --set -t bool /apps/gnome-keyring/daemon-components/ssh false

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring/Ssh

I can't say if it work, as I like the little poppup.


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:30 PM, der.hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> moin moin,
>
> after and upgrade to Intrepid, SSH ( run from a shell in screen ) is
> popping up a gnome-keyring GUI asking for the password to unlock a private
> key.
>
> This is essentially a DoS in addition to being annoying on many levels.
>
> Since I run it from screen and don't actually look at that desktop very
> often, I didn't realize there was a GUI waiting for a response. There
> should not have been.
>
> Once I detected the GUI I notice it refuses to yield focus. Double-bad.
> Ah, it'll yeild the focus, but not the keyboard. Even more double-bad.
>
> DISPLAY is not set, so there should be no GUI popping up for any reason.
>
> I generally run this particular command remotely, so knowing that a GUI
> popped up doesn't really help. Well, I can kill the GUI via another shell
> should I remember what the problem is.
>
> Any suggestions on how to turn this GUI off?
>
> I can remove ssh-askpass-gnome and break ubuntu-desktop.
>
> I can remove id_dsa.
>
> In other circumstances neither of those would be an option. I suppose I
> could use -i to specify a non-existent identity file, but intentionally
> breaking things generally seems like the wrong solution.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  I've got a photographic memory,
> #  but I'm lousy photographer. - der.hans
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>



-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:29 PM, James Mcphee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm...  Whether or not the story is real doesn't really affect us one way or
> the other.

  sure it does.  If it is believed that we need to resort to
fabricating evidence in order to make our claims, that puts everyone
who uses OSS in a bad light.  -jmz

> I believe we can all agree that the action taken in this
> possibly fictitious account is not a good example of how to advance the FOSS
> cause.
>
> In the discussion, though, it seems that people have seen problems with
> educators needing educating about the alternatives to MS.  Does anyone know
> any good material that doesn't speak down to the lay-person?  I've found
> that most people, and cash-strapped educators particularly, are open to new
> information if presented in a non-threatening and non-confrontational
> manner.
>
> MS dumps billions into advertising with little to counter it.  It's no
> wonder the average joe/jane has a skewed perception of history and their
> current options.  I think having a simple response to someone spouting the
> MS tagline would be beneficial to the cause.  Something like "Please visit
> intelligent-sounding-site-name.com if you want to hear the other side of the
> story."  I've looked a bit, and most of the FOSS propoganda can best be
> described as erudite and at worst, rabid.  Does anyone know of a good site
> that can be referenced to ejumacate folks?
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> >> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was made
>> >>  up
>> >>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having
>> >>  now!
>> >>  :)
>> >>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude
>> >> > that
>> >> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite
>> >> > real,
>> >> > and a
>> >> > problem that many of us suffer from.
>> >>
>> >> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
>> >> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
>> >> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
>> >> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
>> >> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
>> >> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
>> >> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
>> >>
>> >> -jmz
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates
>> >> > are
>> >> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and
>> >> > relate
>> >> > to.
>> >> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid
>> >> > regardless
>> >> > of
>> >> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell people why
>> >> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
>> >> > what's
>> >> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're
>> >> > doing.
>> >> >
>> >> > alex
>> >> >
>> >
>> > Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!
>>
>>  awesome picture.  I wonder if those things are genetically related to
>> Furbys.
>>
>>  an interesting thing I've noticed in recent years is that 'troll'
>> has come to be used interchangeably with 'someone who doesnt agree
>> with me'.
>>
>>  -jmz
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> James McPhee
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ---
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RE: SSH to GNOME keyring

[Lisa Kachold]

Solutions:

Try LibPam:  
http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/07/12/automatically-unlocking-the-default-gnome-keyring-pam-keyring/

Questions:



1) Did you use encryptfs file encryption  on this system? 
2) Do you have any pam.d customizations?  (There is a PAM patch in Intrepid)

3) Are you using any "wrapped passphrase" that is not automatically
added into the keyring - like shhutout or shit for SSH brute force
protection? 

4) I assume the key is setup?

www.Obnosis.com |  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:obnosis |  
(503)754-4452
Catch the January PLUG HackFest!   Kristy Westphal, CSO for the AZ Department 
of Economic
Security will provide a one hour
presentation on forensics 1/10/09 Noon at UAT.edu.

> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:30:28 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: SSH to GNOME keyring
> 
> moin moin,
> 
> after and upgrade to Intrepid, SSH ( run from a shell in screen ) is
> popping up a gnome-keyring GUI asking for the password to unlock a private
> key.
> 
> This is essentially a DoS in addition to being annoying on many levels.
> 
> Since I run it from screen and don't actually look at that desktop very
> often, I didn't realize there was a GUI waiting for a response. There
> should not have been.
> 
> Once I detected the GUI I notice it refuses to yield focus. Double-bad.
> Ah, it'll yeild the focus, but not the keyboard. Even more double-bad.
> 
> DISPLAY is not set, so there should be no GUI popping up for any reason.
> 
> I generally run this particular command remotely, so knowing that a GUI
> popped up doesn't really help. Well, I can kill the GUI via another shell
> should I remember what the problem is.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to turn this GUI off?
> 
> I can remove ssh-askpass-gnome and break ubuntu-desktop.
> 
> I can remove id_dsa.
> 
> In other circumstances neither of those would be an option. I suppose I
> could use -i to specify a non-existent identity file, but intentionally
> breaking things generally seems like the wrong solution.
> 
> ciao,
> 
> der.hans
> -- 
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  I've got a photographic memory,
> #  but I'm lousy photographer. - der.hans
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

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RE: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Bob Elzer]

How about  Im-a-pc-and-I-run-linux.com

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James
Mcphee
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:30 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back


Hmm...  Whether or not the story is real doesn't really affect us one way or
the other.  I believe we can all agree that the action taken in this
possibly fictitious account is not a good example of how to advance the FOSS
cause.

In the discussion, though, it seems that people have seen problems with
educators needing educating about the alternatives to MS.  Does anyone know
any good material that doesn't speak down to the lay-person?  I've found
that most people, and cash-strapped educators particularly, are open to new
information if presented in a non-threatening and non-confrontational
manner.

MS dumps billions into advertising with little to counter it.  It's no
wonder the average joe/jane has a skewed perception of history and their
current options.  I think having a simple response to someone spouting the
MS tagline would be beneficial to the cause.  Something like "Please visit
intelligent-sounding-site-name.com if you want to hear the other side of the
story."  I've looked a bit, and most of the FOSS propoganda can best be
described as erudite and at worst, rabid.  Does anyone know of a good site
that can be referenced to ejumacate folks?


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was made up
>>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having now!
>>  :)
>>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
>> >>>
>> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
>> >>
>> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
>> >
>> >
>> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude
>> > that
>> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite real,
>> > and a
>> > problem that many of us suffer from.
>>
>> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
>> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
>> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
>> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
>> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
>> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
>> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
>>
>> -jmz
>>
>> >
>> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates
are
>> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and relate
>> > to.
>> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid regardless
>> > of
>> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell people why
>> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
>> > what's
>> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're doing.
>> >
>> > alex
>> >
>
> Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!


 awesome picture.  I wonder if those things are genetically related to
Furbys.

 an interesting thing I've noticed in recent years is that 'troll'
has come to be used interchangeably with 'someone who doesnt agree
with me'.

 -jmz

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-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Stephen P Rufle]

www.linuxa2z.com was setup after lindependence 08 in July. I think it
needs some love and attention. Maybe it could serve as a place for
reasonable promotional material.

You need all types both brash and gentle.
Sort of like Malcolm X is to Martin Luther King.

I am sure Ken would love the help, You could also ask to be put on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (not a real list like ours), then you could help
roll the large Linux rock up the steep public opinion hill :)

BTW: I already know that many in the Phoenix Metro area are doing their
part. I would love to see synergy between the information learned from
the sequoia charter school and the rest of the country. One of the
people on Helos's list is guy named Christian Einfeldt and he is doing
good things about documenting Open source success stories.

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/

Bob Elzer wrote:
> How about  Im-a-pc-and-I-run-linux.com
> 
> 
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
> *James Mcphee
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:30 PM
> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
> 
> Hmm...  Whether or not the story is real doesn't really affect us one
> way or the other.  I believe we can all agree that the action taken in
> this possibly fictitious account is not a good example of how to advance
> the FOSS cause.
> 
> In the discussion, though, it seems that people have seen problems with
> educators needing educating about the alternatives to MS.  Does anyone
> know any good material that doesn't speak down to the lay-person?  I've
> found that most people, and cash-strapped educators particularly, are
> open to new information if presented in a non-threatening and
> non-confrontational manner.
> 
> MS dumps billions into advertising with little to counter it.  It's no
> wonder the average joe/jane has a skewed perception of history and their
> current options.  I think having a simple response to someone spouting
> the MS tagline would be beneficial to the cause.  Something like "Please
> visit intelligent-sounding-site-name.com
>  if you want to hear the
> other side of the story."  I've looked a bit, and most of the FOSS
> propoganda can best be described as erudite and at worst, rabid.  Does
> anyone know of a good site that can be referenced to ejumacate folks?
> 
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> 
> >> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was
> made up
> >>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're
> having now!
> >>  :)
> >>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me"
> attitude
> >> > that
> >> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is
> quite real,
> >> > and a
> >> > problem that many of us suffer from.
> >>
> >> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
> >> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
> >> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme
> concocted by
> >> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
> >> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
> >> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
> >> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
> >>
> >> -jmz
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its
> advocates are
> >> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and
> relate
> >> > to.
> >> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid
> regardless
> >> > of
> >> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell
> people why
> >> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
> >> > wha

Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back

[Josef Lowder]

Love that word edjumacate.

I agree with you, Bob.  We all (all Linux enthusiasts) need a polite,
concise, effective way (website and perhaps other tools) to convey
useful, persuasive, information about the benefits of Linux and other
FOSS to the hoards who are so terribly in the dark.

One huge benefit, I think, would be to simply have a comprehensive
list of both major and name-recognition users who are mainly, if not
exclusively Linux users, and possibly also an impressive list of
quotable quotes from people of note (recognizable names, etc.)
about their use of and preference for Linux.

If folks would like to send such lists to me, I would be glad to try to
compile those lists on a web page, but it would be even better if
our PLUG website could have a link where anyone and everyone
could add to a list of names and quotable quotes.

Does anyone "out there" know of any such lists that already
exist (and are up to date)?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 12/10/08, Bob Elzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> How about  Im-a-pc-and-I-run-linux.com
>
>  
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Mcphee
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:30 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
>
>
> Hmm...  Whether or not the story is real doesn't really affect us one way or
> the other.  I believe we can all agree that the action taken in this
> possibly fictitious account is not a good example of how to advance the FOSS
> cause.
>
> In the discussion, though, it seems that people have seen problems with
> educators needing educating about the alternatives to MS.  Does anyone know
> any good material that doesn't speak down to the lay-person?  I've found
> that most people, and cash-strapped educators particularly, are open to new
> information if presented in a non-threatening and non-confrontational
> manner.
>
> MS dumps billions into advertising with little to counter it.  It's no
> wonder the average joe/jane has a skewed perception of history and their
> current options.  I think having a simple response to someone spouting the
> MS tagline would be beneficial to the cause.  Something like "Please visit
> intelligent-sounding-site-name.com if you want to hear the
> other side of the story."  I've looked a bit, and most of the FOSS
> propoganda can best be described as erudite and at worst, rabid.  Does
> anyone know of a good site that can be referenced to ejumacate folks?
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Lisa Kachold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:31:27 -0700
> > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > >> Subject: Re: OT: Linux - Stop holding our kids back
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mike Hoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>  Personally I believe that this blog is false. I think it was made
> up
> > >>  just to spark a FOSS/MS debate, just like this one we're having
> now!
> > >>  :)
> > >>  Just smells a little fishy to me...
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I was thinking the exact same thing.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Same here... the story seems very fabricated.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Could be. But the "believe me because you're dumber than me" attitude
> > >> > that
> > >> > the blogger takes toward this teacher (fictional or no) is quite
> real,
> > >> > and a
> > >> > problem that many of us suffer from.
> > >>
> > >> well that does contribute to my opinion... seems like hes creating
> > >> this effigy of the evil anti-OSS person and then tearing her apart.
> > >> The whole thing just seems generally like a stupid scheme concocted by
> > >> some sophomoric linux user. Note that there are no sources, no real
> > >> names, what looks like some kind of institutional name (but you can't
> > >> make out what it is). Ive seen totally false stories like this
> > >> propagate through the net, so I have my doubts.
> > >>
> > >> -jmz
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > I think it's a barrier to spreading free software when its advocates
> are
> > >> > poor at making a point non-technical people will understand and
> relate
> > >> > to.
> > >> > That was the point of my initial comment, and I think valid
> regardless
> > >> > of
> > >> > the underlying facts of this particular story. Don't tell people why
> > >> > they're wrong/misguided/stupid. It only turns people off. Focus on
> > >> > what's
> > >> > good about what you're doing, not what's bad about what they're
> doing.
> > >> >
> > >> > alex
> > >> >
> > >
> > > Yes it's an urban anti-technology myth, cleverly posted here by trolls!
> >
> >  awesome picture.  I wonder if those things are genetically re

Re: SSH to GNOME keyring

[Stephen]

Maybe get creative with th sudoers and groups, only half breaking things?

On 12/10/08, der.hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> moin moin,
>
> after and upgrade to Intrepid, SSH ( run from a shell in screen ) is
> popping up a gnome-keyring GUI asking for the password to unlock a private
> key.
>
> This is essentially a DoS in addition to being annoying on many levels.
>
> Since I run it from screen and don't actually look at that desktop very
> often, I didn't realize there was a GUI waiting for a response. There
> should not have been.
>
> Once I detected the GUI I notice it refuses to yield focus. Double-bad.
> Ah, it'll yeild the focus, but not the keyboard. Even more double-bad.
>
> DISPLAY is not set, so there should be no GUI popping up for any reason.
>
> I generally run this particular command remotely, so knowing that a GUI
> popped up doesn't really help. Well, I can kill the GUI via another shell
> should I remember what the problem is.
>
> Any suggestions on how to turn this GUI off?
>
> I can remove ssh-askpass-gnome and break ubuntu-desktop.
>
> I can remove id_dsa.
>
> In other circumstances neither of those would be an option. I suppose I
> could use -i to specify a non-existent identity file, but intentionally
> breaking things generally seems like the wrong solution.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
> --
> #  http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/
> #  I've got a photographic memory,
> #  but I'm lousy photographer. - der.hans
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Simple Script issue..??

[wayne]

ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill


WILL NOT WORK.

I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
which should kill the process "kicker"
  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm 
doing.  and doing wrong  :-)

Anybody?
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Re: Simple Script issue..??

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

kill `ps aux|grep -v grep|grep kicker|cut -b10-15`
WHAM!
Gone...   :)
Enrique 

 

wayne writes: 

> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill 
> 
> 
> WILL NOT WORK. 
> 
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>   But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm 
> doing.  and doing wrong  :-) 
> 
> Anybody?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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RE: Simple Script issue..??

[Lisa Kachold]

Just use:

#pkill $processname

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pkill

www.Obnosis.com |  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:obnosis |  
(503)754-4452
Catch the January PLUG HackFest!   Kristy Westphal, CSO for the AZ Department 
of Economic
Security will provide a one hour
presentation on forensics 1/10/09 Noon at UAT.edu.


> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:42:54 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Simple Script issue..??
> 
> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill
> 
> 
> WILL NOT WORK.
> 
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>   But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm 
> doing.  and doing wrong  :-)
> 
> Anybody?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

_
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
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Re: Simple Script issue..??

[James Finstrom]

pgrep my friend or killall -9

On 12/10/08, wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill
>
>
> WILL NOT WORK.
>
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>   But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm
> doing.  and doing wrong  :-)
>
> Anybody?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

James Finstrom
Rhino Equipment Corp.
http://rhinoequipment.com ~ http://postug.com
 Sometimes for it to "just work" you have to think outside the box!
Phone: 1-877-RHINO-T1 ~ FAX: +1 (480) 961-1826
IP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Simple Script issue..??

[Bob Elzer]

would you just rather do a "killall kicker"

do a man on killall

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:43 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Simple Script issue..??

ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill


WILL NOT WORK.

I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
which should kill the process "kicker"
  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm doing.
and doing wrong  :-)

Anybody?
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RE: Simple Script issue..??

[Bryan O'Neal]

Change the direction of the kill input.  It may be simpler to use pkill.
Maybe just change up the script to take in the input as a var and then pkill
-f "$var"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:43 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Simple Script issue..??

ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill


WILL NOT WORK.

I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
which should kill the process "kicker"
  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm doing.
and doing wrong  :-)

Anybody?
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Re: Simple Script issue..??

[James Mcphee]

kill won't take a list from stdout, but if you | xargs kill, then it'll
happily do it.

ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0-9]* | xargs kill
or kill -9

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Bryan O'Neal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Change the direction of the kill input.  It may be simpler to use pkill.
> Maybe just change up the script to take in the input as a var and then
> pkill
> -f "$var"
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:43 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Simple Script issue..??
>
> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill
>
>
> WILL NOT WORK.
>
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm doing.
> and doing wrong  :-)
>
> Anybody?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> ---
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>



-- 
James McPhee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Simple Script issue..??

[JD Austin]

There are a few ways to skin the cat...
I always use awk to print out the command I want to run and then pipe to
bash to execute it.
It lets me see what it's going to do before it does it.
IE:
ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | awk '{print "kill
"$1}'
then if it's what you want:
ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | awk '{print "kill
"$1}'  | bash
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:42 PM, wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill
>
>
> WILL NOT WORK.
>
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm
> doing.  and doing wrong  :-)
>
> Anybody?
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
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Re: Simple Script issue..??

[David]

On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:42 PM, wayne wrote:

> ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill
>
>
> WILL NOT WORK.
>
> I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
> which should kill the process "kicker"
>  But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm
> doing.  and doing wrong  :-)
>
> Anybody?
> ---

for i in `ps aux | grep $1 | awk '{ print $2 }'`; do kill $i; done

I have to use this all the time on errant oracle processes :)
David

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
--Darth Vader



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Re: Simple Script issue..?? - Thank you JAMES!

[wayne]

Going down the list of all your replies, James' was the first that did 
exactly what I was looking for.  THANK YOU TO ALL for your help.  :-)





James Mcphee wrote:
kill won't take a list from stdout, but if you | xargs kill, then 
it'll happily do it.


ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0-9]* | xargs kill
or kill -9

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Bryan O'Neal 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:


Change the direction of the kill input.  It may be simpler to use
pkill.
Maybe just change up the script to take in the input as a var and
then pkill
-f "$var"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] On Behalf
Of wayne
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:43 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Simple Script issue..??

ps -A | grep $1 | cut -c1-5 | grep -o [0123456789]* | kill


WILL NOT WORK.

I want to run the above script "whack" like this:   whack  kicker
which should kill the process "kicker"
 But it chokes at the "kill" part and I do not know what I'm
doing.
and doing wrong  :-)

Anybody?
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--
James McPhee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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