Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] MusicIP on another server

2006-10-29 Thread Michael Herger

My goal is to have slimserver talk to my windows box to get MusicIP
mixes.


This is not possible.


I've seen that I can set the MusicIP port - Is it also possible to
somehow specify a full URL to my MusicIP server?


Nope.

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] MusicIP on another server

2006-10-29 Thread blader_se

I'm currently running 6.3.1 on an FSG-3, and can't run MusicIP on that
box since no arm-version is availible.

My goal is to have slimserver talk to my windows box to get MusicIP
mixes. 

First I need to get in contact with MusicIP.
I've seen that I can set the MusicIP port - Is it also possible to
somehow specify a full URL to my MusicIP server?

Secondly I need to change the path to the music.
In TrackStat, there is an option to set a regular expression where
MusicIP have it's music stored, and a second one where SlimServer can
find it.
Can I use this since the Windows box (and MusicIP) thinks music is on
Q:/MyMusic but the path for FSG is /home/public/MyMusic?


Perhaps this is already possible with 6.5.1 but I havn't found anything
that describes this scenario.


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: New WeatherTime Screensaver adds graphical forecasts

2006-10-29 Thread martin . rehfeld

dc11ab;150776 Wrote: 
> 
> I'm working on a Swedish translation for the WeatherTime plugin. 

Cool. I will of course add it to WeatherTime as soon as possible. I
will take a look at your draft, but can probably not get back to you
before thursday. Stay tuned :-)


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Martin Rehfeld

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: New WeatherTime Screensaver adds graphical forecasts

2006-10-29 Thread dc11ab

Hi Martin

I'm working on a Swedish translation for the WeatherTime plugin. I've
made a draft, attached to this post, and in a later version I'll have
it corrected by a friend who used to work as a meteorologist. Right now
it's based on what I hear on the news forecast on national television
:)

Apart from being a newbie meteorologist translator I'm also a 
non-skilled hacker so I'd appreciate some advice on the way:

So, ..errh... go gentle on me! ;)

- Is there a need to add swedish ÅÄÖåäö-characters to the Charset, as
they are used in the strings?

- Should special chars in the strings section be expressed like html
code, for instance: å -> å or what format should I apply to
them?

- Are there characters that I should avoid? (Like /'\" etc.)

- How many chars are recommended as maximum in a string? (As to be
displayed properly on a SB3)


Please have a look at attached file for reference.

Thank you


+---+
|Filename: SE-translation-ver09.zip |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1911|
+---+

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread egd

whicken;150704 Wrote: 
> We are currently beta testing a standalone tool to generate puid from
> songs - it attempts to do the minimum necessary to generate puids.  
> This program's called "genpuid".  (Clever, huh?)
> 
> 1. SHA-1 lookup
> 2. Fingerprint lookup
> 3. Full analysis
> 
> We'll keep working on this to improve the process as well.  Info can be
> had on the MusicIP Beta forums.

Whicken, thx for your response.  I saw some references to 'genpuid' on
MusicIP's beta forums, but couldn't find a download link - is it
currently available for download?  Happy to participate in your Beta
testing program?


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicInfo, Transporter. Independant screen scrolling

2006-10-29 Thread ModelCitizen

Oh gawd. Well hopefully this will help.
I'll persevere.
MC


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Now what?

Transporter > Naim NAP 250 > PMC OB1s.
Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt

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Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicInfo, Transporter. Independant screen scrolling

2006-10-29 Thread Michael Herger

This is interestesting. Attempting to get what I want out of the
MusicInfo plugin has made me realise that currently the whole
screensaver/display stuff on SlimServer is confused and quite
overcomplicated (there are interelated display settings on at least
three separate pages for instance).


I doubt this will change with the planned architectural changes. It's a  
general problem with any program of a certain complexity: you just don't  
find what you're looking for.



I think a simple interface would present choices for each display
segment (by font size),


Isn't this the case today? And then the idea of segments is less and less  
present. Today you can have large text and small text mixed on the same  
display. It's no longer as with the first text displays.



some are not selectable at all (for instance, comment field for "Now
Playing").


Hmm... where do you see them, where don't you see them?


I do not want a screen saver at all.


Then turn it off :-)


I want the only changes made on
the screen to be as a result of me using the buttons on the remote.


And probably the player continuing playback on the next song as well?


Hit right hand remote button (and/or Now Playing button) receive
"tracknumber - album" on left screen, comments field on right screen.


AFAIK you can't customize what comes after a RIGHT button from Now Playing.

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: iTunes Update 1.9

2006-10-29 Thread James

The releases at that link get rebuilt every night, so sometimes when you
visit there won't be a full set available. 

James


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: I am afraid to ask this

2006-10-29 Thread bpa

The instruction below assume Sirius plugin has been installed.

Sirius needs mplayer for WMA stream server-side decoding as there is no
wmadec utility on Linux systems.  This server side  WMA decoding support
is provided as a side benefit of AlienBBC installation but I think you
do not need to install AlienBBC. 

I think mplayer is installed as part of SSODS but as mplayer-stdout. 
Check if it is installed by typing "mplayer-stdout" on a command prompt
- if you get a banner then all you need to do is modify a file
convert.conf in the main slimserver directory.

There are 3 sets of lines (wma wav , wma mp3 and wma flc) scattered
through convert.conf handling WMA streams by calling wmadec.  You need
to replace these lines with the respective ones for mplayer.

Code:


  wma wav * *
[mplayer-stdout] -really-quiet -vc null -vo null -cache 128 -af 
volume=0,resample=44100:0:1,channels=2 -ao pcm:nowaveheader:file=- $FILE$ 
2>/dev/null
  
  
  wma mp3 * *
[mplayer-stdout] -really-quiet -vc null -vo null -cache 128 -af 
volume=0,resample=44100:0:1,channels=2 -ao pcm:nowaveheader:file=- $FILE$ 
2>/dev/null | [lame] --silent -r -x -q $QUALITY$ -b $BITRATE$ - -
  
  
  wma flc * *
[mplayer-stdout] -really-quiet -vc null -vo null -cache 128 -af 
volume=0,resample=44100:0:1,channels=2 -ao pcm:nowaveheader:file=- $FILE$ 
2>/dev/null | [flac] -cs --totally-silent --endian=little --channels=2 
--sign=signed --bps=16 --sample-rate=44100 --compression-level-0 -
  
  



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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: I am afraid to ask this

2006-10-29 Thread tommypeters

I think it's mostly Flipflip and Mr Hyde who has worked with getting 3rd
party plugins to work on the DS-106, and succeeded...


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] I am afraid to ask this

2006-10-29 Thread paula1960

but I have upgraded my home computer network with a DiskStation 106. I
have installed Flipflip's SSODS and now I would like to install the
sirius plugin.
However this asks for the install of AlienBBC and that in turn requires
installing mplayer and a score of other programs under linux that I am
not familiar with.
I hardly know how to use the terminal.
So reluctantly I ask if there is a step by step manual to do this. At
this point in time I have the sunday afternoons to work on 'silly'
things like this, the rest of the week I work and study. So getting to
know Linux is impossible right now. And I would appreciate it if you
would tell me that it is not possible to install all this given my
modest knowledge and time.
I really appreciate all your help,
with regards,
paula


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread whicken

We are currently beta testing a standalone tool to generate puid from
songs - it attempts to do the minimum necessary to generate puids.  
This program's called "genpuid".  (Clever, huh?)

1. SHA-1 lookup
2. Fingerprint lookup
3. Full analysis

We'll keep working on this to improve the process as well.  Info can be
had on the MusicIP Beta forums.


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread egd

jeffluckett;150660 Wrote: 
> MusicBrainz adds the PUID for many (but not all) tracks.
> 
> http://musicbrainz.org/
> 
> -J

thx Jeff, I am aware of musicbrainz, but as I pointed out in my first
post there is little to no incentive to use it other than to tag your
music if you haven't already done that.  Additionally it's a manual
process making analysis via MusicIP Mixer seem more palatable, albeit a
very long-winded process for music that someone else has no doubt
already had analysed and a PUID generated for.


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread jeffluckett

egd;150665 Wrote: 
> thx Jeff, I am aware of musicbrainz, but as I pointed out in my first
> post there is little to no incentive to use it other than to tag your
> music if you haven't already done that.  Additionally it's a manual
> process making analysis via MusicIP Mixer seem more palatable, albeit a
> very long-winded process for music that someone else has no doubt
> already had analysed and a PUID generated for.


Actually, if your library is already well tagged, you can use the
"classic" tagger to do the job for you in an automated fashion. 
Granted Picard is still pretty manual, but the classic tagger does a
fine job of automating the process.  

And since your library is already well tagged, it'll take very little
"checking" on your part because it'll be able to automatically match
most of your tracks.


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: iTunes Update 1.9

2006-10-29 Thread eschurr

Thanks. I thought the option was called "automatically run and login" so
i didn't get it.  "automatically start at login" makes sense.

Now i have what might be a dumb question:  I went to get the 6.5.1
version at the URL you posted and all i see is a .DEB file.  What is
that?  I can't figure out how to open it or install it.


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: New WeatherTime Screensaver adds graphical forecasts

2006-10-29 Thread tamanaco

Updated to the lastest nightly an instead of a icon I get a "?" where
the cloud/sun should be. The current description for NY is
Cloudy/Wind... not sure if it's a nightly issue. Maybe an icon for this
particular weather does not exist?


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread jeffluckett

MusicBrainz adds the PUID for many (but not all) tracks.

http://musicbrainz.org/

-J


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: Custom Scan plugin

2006-10-29 Thread erland

A new version (1.1) of the Custom Scan plugin is now available, the
changes are:
- Corrected error in LastFM module when no similar artists where found
- Updated CustomTag module so it supports multiple entries of same tag,
for example two PERFORMER tags.

NOTE!!!
The LastFM module will almost lock the slimserver interface the first
time a scanning is performed. The reason for this is that LastFM
licenses only allows 1 request per 1-2 seconds towards their web
services, I have not found any easy way to do this other than just
sleep for 1 second for each artist. There will be one request per
artist in your slimserver database, so if you know the number of artist
you can calculate the approximately time for the total scanning. As long
as you don't clear the data it won't happend during the next rescan
since the information only is retrieved from LastFM the first time for
each artist. If you don't want the LastFM scanning, just disable it in
the Custom Scan web interface.

NOTE!
The Custom Scan plugin only works on slimserver 6.5 and later so don't
try to use it on slimserver 6.3 or earlier.

The new version is available at my 'download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download) as usual.

The current wish/todo list for new features in comming CustomScan
releases can be found here:
http://erland.homeip.net/issuetracking/do/guest/home?application=slimserver-customscan

If anyone have more feature requests or if I have missed some feature
you already have requested which hasn't been implemented, please let me
know. Also please note that it is a wish list and not a release plan, so
some features on this list may never be implemented.


-- 
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Erland Isaksson
'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download)
(Developer of 'TrackStat'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-trackstat)
, 'SQLPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-sqlplaylist)
, 'DynamicPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-dynamicplaylist),
'Custom Browse'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-custombrowse),'Custom
Scan'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-customscan)
and 'RandomPlayList'
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[SlimDevices: Plugins] MusicIP Mixer PUID

2006-10-29 Thread egd

My understanding of MusicIP Mixer is that it uses a unique identifier
known as a PUID to identify songs and thus facilitate its playlisting
etc.  Is there a way of looking up and saving the PUIDs in file tags
other than having to go through the extensive analysis that MusicIP
Mixer undertakes.

Basically I'm hoping there is a tool out there that can retrieve PUIDs
for songs that are found to already exist in MusicIP's database rather
than go through the analysis process.  I know musicbrainz's Picard can
do fingerprinting that ultimately results in PUID's being written to
tags, however it requires manual intervention and is of limited use if
your files are already tagged, which is the case with mine.


-- 
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It's great to be working on an OS that does not fiddle with its bits and
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Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Announce: Custom Scan plugin

2006-10-29 Thread Phil Meyer
Just installed this and did a rescan.  The web UI seems to be running really 
slow (like several minutes to refresh the page).  I've noticed the following in 
the log (it's still scanning):

2006-10-29 12:13:00.6870 CustomScan: Failed to call scanArtist on module 
Plugins::CustomScan::Modules::LastFM: Can't use string ("Beyonce Knowles ft. 
Sean Paul") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at 
P:\Music\SlimServer\trunk\server/Plugins/CustomScan/Modules/LastFM.pm line 72.

2006-10-29 12:15:24.4706 CustomScan: Failed to call scanArtist on module 
Plugins::CustomScan::Modules::LastFM: Can't use string ("J. Shelton") as an 
ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at 
P:\Music\SlimServer\trunk\server/Plugins/CustomScan/Modules/LastFM.pm line 72.

2006-10-29 12:16:03.4318 CustomScan: Failed to call scanArtist on module 
Plugins::CustomScan::Modules::LastFM: Can't use string ("Randy Bachman") as an 
ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at 
P:\Music\SlimServer\trunk\server/Plugins/CustomScan/Modules/LastFM.pm line 72.

Phil
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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: Custom Scan plugin

2006-10-29 Thread erland

ceejay;150621 Wrote: 
> In your implementation, does it allow the creation of just one custom
> tag, or could you have several?
> 
You can have as many as you like in the Custom Tags module and inte
Custom Scan plugin, however the menu template in Custom Browse plugin
is currently limited to one tag. Its just the menu template that is
limited, so you can still edit the xml manually to get what you wan't.

ceejay;150621 Wrote: 
> What if there were multiple occurrences of that custom tag in a file? (I
> am particularly thinking of using this for PERFORMER)?
> 
I haven't tested it with mutiple occurrences of the same tag yet, so it
probably does not work in this version. I know for a fact that that
multiple values in the same tag such as "Pop;Rock" does not work yet.
I'll add this to the wish list for a comming release.


-- 
erland

Erland Isaksson
'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download)
(Developer of 'TrackStat'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-trackstat)
, 'SQLPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-sqlplaylist)
, 'DynamicPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-dynamicplaylist),
'Custom Browse'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-custombrowse),'Custom
Scan'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-customscan)
and 'RandomPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-randomplaylist)
plugins)

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: Custom Scan plugin

2006-10-29 Thread ceejay

Hi

this looks interesting - I'm particularly interested in the Custom Tags
usage, this is a feature that has been requested many times before
(including by me!).

In your implementation, does it allow the creation of just one custom
tag, or could you have several?

What if there were multiple occurrences of that custom tag in a file?
(I am particularly thinking of using this for PERFORMER)?

TIA

Ceejay


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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: MusicInfo, Transporter. Independant screen scrolling

2006-10-29 Thread ModelCitizen

Michael Herger;150599 Wrote: 
> >But as the whole setup and plugin stuff is due to be reworked
This is interestesting. Attempting to get what I want out of the
MusicInfo plugin has made me realise that currently the whole
screensaver/display stuff on SlimServer is confused and quite
overcomplicated (there are interelated display settings on at least
three separate pages for instance). In SlimServer the idea of a
screensaver comes before setting the display. I guess this is mainly
due to the fact that MusicInfo is a plugin and was developed after the
display stuff (including the, for me, now redundant screensaver stuff).
It seems to me that, for the Transporter at least, the MusicInfo screen
should be the first display stuff one configures. After that one should
be able to configure a screen saver (or two).
I think a simple interface would present choices for each display
segment (by font size), with a scroll/not scroll check box. This screen
would present an option also for what you get (per segment?) for the
right button (left button ought to be browse, as current) and/or Now
Playing button.
the screen saver ought to follow on for here with the same options but
with the addition of choosing the exact time for the screen saver to
kick in.

Also, all possible choices for the info for each segment ought to be
selectable (this means *all* display options including graphic
equaliser, now playing bar, vu meters etc). I am confused as to why it
should be necessaary for me to add them in yet another screen and why
some are not selectable at all (for instance, comment field for "Now
Playing").

I hope this makes sense. I can see why the display stuff has arrived at
the point it has, but I think now (for 7?) is the time to put it right
and make it user friendly.

Is is of course possible that I have missed somehting fundamental which
is whay I have foiund it impossible to display the display the way I
want it. If so, I'm sorry and, if anyine has any ideas I'd welcome
input.

What I want to acheive is very simplet understand why I am finding it
so hard to do. It's this:

I'm only interested in the large font, as I can't see the others! I'll
configure them later.
I do not want a screen saver at all. I want the only changes made on
the screen to be as a result of me using the buttons on the remote.

Huge font:

Artist in left hand screen, song title in right (achieved!)

Hit right hand remote button (and/or Now Playing button) receive
"tracknumber - album" on left screen, comments field on right screen.
This should stay on the screen till I hit the left hand button (and/or
the Now Playing buton.

What I am finding at the moment is that the screen saver interferes
with everything.

Any help much appreciated. I've now been three nights trying to get
this as I want it!

MC


-- 
ModelCitizen

Now what?

Transporter > Naim NAP 250 > PMC OB1s.
Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt

ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29084

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Announce: Custom Scan plugin

2006-10-29 Thread erland

I have developed a new plugin Custom Scan that is now available for
download. The idea behind the plugin is to make it easier to retreive
additional information about artists, albums and tracks besides the
information already stored in the slimserver database. This Custom Scan
plugin calls separate plugin modules for each artist, album and track in
the slimserver database and the plugin module can retreive any
information it wants from somewhere and return it. The result will be
stored in three tables in the slimserver database.

By default two plugin modules are included as a samples:

LastFM: Retreives information about LastFM tags and "similar artists"
information from LastFM for all artists in the slimserver database.

Custom Tags: Reads a custom tag from the music files. The tag that
should be read must be specified in the Custom Scan settings page. I'm
not sure if this works with all file types, but it should at least work
with vorbis tags (for example FLAC files).

By default the information retreived will not be shown anywhere in the
standard slimserver, but you can use it together with
SQLPlayList(create dynamic playlist based on the information) or with
the Custom Browse plugin (create browse menus based on the
information)

The latest version(1.8) of Custom Browse includes three menu templates
for creating custom menus for the above scanning modules. This means
that you can easily create the following menus:
- A menu that browses your artists by LastFM tags
- A menu that lets you first select on artist and then when you right
click you can select a "similar artist" (according to LastFM) and then
browse down that as usual.
- A menu that lets you browse your music by a custom tag in your music
files. 

See the included README.txt file for more information about how to
develop your own scanning module.

NOTE!
The Custom Scan plugin only works on slimserver 6.5 and later so don't
try to use it on slimserver 6.3 or earlier.

The new version is available at my 'download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download) as usual.

The current wish/todo list for new features in comming CustomScan
releases can be found here:
http://erland.homeip.net/issuetracking/do/guest/home?application=slimserver-customscan

If anyone have more feature requests or if I have missed some feature
you already have requested which hasn't been implemented, please let me
know. Also please note that it is a wish list and not a release plan, so
some features on this list may never be implemented.


-- 
erland

Erland Isaksson
'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download)
(Developer of 'TrackStat'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-trackstat)
, 'SQLPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-sqlplaylist)
, 'DynamicPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-dynamicplaylist),
'Custom Browse'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-custombrowse)
and 'RandomPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-randomplaylist)
plugins)

erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29156

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: Custom Browse plugin

2006-10-29 Thread erland

A new version (1.8) of the CustomBrowse plugin is now available, the new
functionallity and changes are:
- Corrected play action on Singles template.
- Added support on all templates to include/exclude a menu on a
specifiec player(SqueezeBox)
- Albums/Artists/Genres can now be limited to included/excluded comment
tags
- Added new templates:
--- Filtered Singles (Singles menu that selects singles based on genre
or comment tags)
--- Filtered Artists by letter (Artists by letter menu that is limited
to included/excluded genre/comment tags)
--- LastFM Tags (Browse your music by LastFM tags, requires the Custom
Scan plugin)
--- LastFM Similar Artists (Browse by similar artists based on LastFM
data, requires the Custom Scan plugin)
--- Custom Tags (Browse your music by a custom tag, requires the Custom
Scan plugin)

NOTE!
This version has only been tested towards slimserver 6.5. Slimserver
6.3 might still work but this has not been verified. 

The new version is available at my 'download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download) as usual.

The current wish/todo list for new features in comming CustomBrowse
releases can be found here:
http://erland.homeip.net/issuetracking/do/guest/home?application=slimserver-custombrowse

If anyone have more feature requests or if I have missed some feature
you already have requested which hasn't been implemented, please let me
know. Also please note that it is a wish list and not a release plan, so
some features on this list may never be implemented.


-- 
erland

Erland Isaksson
'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download)
(Developer of 'TrackStat'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-trackstat)
, 'SQLPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-sqlplaylist)
, 'DynamicPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-dynamicplaylist),
'Custom Browse'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-custombrowse)
and 'RandomPlayList'
(http://erland.homeip.net/download/do/viewapplication?name=slimserver-randomplaylist)
plugins)

erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27043

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[SlimDevices: Plugins] Re: Announce: iTunes Update 1.9

2006-10-29 Thread James

With the 'automatically start at login' option, SlimServer starts
automatically when a user is logged into the XP box. 
You would need someone logged in for iTunes to run anyway so I can't
imagine it being a problem.

James


-- 
James

James's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=189
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28412

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