Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:05:48 -0500 (EST) "Terry A. Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anonymity erodes credibility. And we promise not to laugh if your name is Ethelbert or Seymour or Eula or something like that. -- Terry Smith, whose mom's name is Eula -- a good ol' fashioned Texas name Or, ummm, Cocke. (Now having a flashback to the lunchroom in fifth-grade: "You know what your last name means, doncha...?"). NPIMH -- "Boy Named Sue" -- Johnny Cash. William Cocke Senior Writer HSC Development University of Virginia (804) 924-8432
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
Bit late on this thread, but just wanted to chuck in my 2 cents... I understand the whole thing about artists' rights. I also understand a little about the conflict between the artist's creative process and the marketing of the "product". With a few notable exceptions, legit live recordings are released once in a blue moon not necessarily because a band don't want any more than that in the public domain, but because the record company would not "allow" them to release any more due to limited market appeal or whatever. I suffer some guilt pangs over my live tape collection, but I know my life would be the poorer if I had never got to hear Son Volt covering "Aint No More Cane", "Holocaust" or "Sing Me Back Home", countless unreleased Neil Young recordings, or the Dylan 66 material (to name but a very few) - the latter, remember, finally got released 32 years later, and I don't think this necessarily had a lot to do with Dylan not WANTING those tapes in the public domain. It's a poor 2 cents, mebbe, but it's all I got right now... Stevie
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
In a message dated 3/24/99 12:04:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, I own all of the legit commercial products from both bands. Bought a bunch of Todd Snider to pass on to friends as well. Oh well, that makes it okay to steal, doesn't it? Slim
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
In a message dated 3/24/99 12:04:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to track down some digital Todd Snider and Blue Mt. I would prefer to receive in CDR format, but will trade my CDRs or videos (ask for list) for DAT as well. Well, I have been trying to keep my mouth shut, but this really pisses me off. You know Todd is so nice that he does not really give a shit, but since he is trying to make a living, and since he does have a new record coming out soon why don't you just wait to buy it, rather than steal from him. By the way, I sent this on to Todd, and his manager you asshole!
RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
I deleted the original e-mail, being uninterested in the subject, but was he looking for a boot of the new album (which is cheap and inexcusable) or digital versions of peoples' taped concerts (which I'm all for, providing it's a fair trade, seeing as how it's not money from the artist's/label's pocket)? From the clipped bit, it reads like he's looking for non-released material, and wants to trade. As an artist, what's your take on that? Chris In a message dated 3/24/99 12:04:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm trying to track down some digital Todd Snider and Blue Mt. I would prefer to receive in CDR format, but will trade my CDRs or videos (ask for list) for DAT as well. Well, I have been trying to keep my mouth shut, but this really pisses me off. You know Todd is so nice that he does not really give a shit, but since he is trying to make a living, and since he does have a new record coming out soon why don't you just wait to buy it, rather than steal from him. By the way, I sent this on to Todd, and his manager you asshole!
RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
From the clipped bit, it reads like he's looking for non-released material, and wants to trade. As an artist, what's your take on that? If a record label released material without the consent of the artist, wouldn't it be obvious that something rotten was going on? If so, what's the difference here? The financial principle is an important one, but it's not the only one; the principle of an artist's control over what material gets into the marketplace is another one, and there's a pretty obvious violation of it here. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
In a message dated 3/24/99 11:18:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the principle of an artist's control over what material gets into the marketplace is another one, and there's a pretty obvious violation of it here. Right on someone taped me when I had flu, thought it was great and wanted to include it on a cd. I am just glad that the dude understood that I don't want stuff that I am not proud off out there.
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
In a message dated 3/24/99 12:18:57 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If a record label released material without the consent of the artist, wouldn't it be obvious that something rotten was going on? If so, what's the difference here? the difference is that there's a contractual, legal relationship between artist and company that either disallows, or allows, the company to release with or without consent of the artist. there is no such agreement between the public and the artist. ive yet to meet any fans who trade or purchase live stuff that hasn't purchased much, if not all, of the artist's catalog. many artists encourage such activity. ive been to several todd shows, and he has been pretty clear that he doesn't have a problem with taping and trading. hell, bet he's even got a few items in his collection.
RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
If a record label released material without the consent of the artist, wouldn't it be obvious that something rotten was going on? If so, what's the difference here? The financial principle is an important one, but it's not the only one; the principle of an artist's control over what material gets into the marketplace is another one, and there's a pretty obvious violation of it here. Jon Weisberger I guess it's like arguing politics and religion - people have pre-set opinions and discussion isn't going to change one's mind. The financial aspect is the overwhelming point, imo. If he's looking to get concert recordings or unreleased b-sides on cdr, without money exchanging hands, then I'm all for it. (Most audience- recorded boots bite in the quality range, as far as I've found.) This also naively assumes that the person buys all the official product once it becomes available anyway (the few boots I have are in addition to owning entire available catalog - Lloyd Cole, the Replacements, etc...) I can respect the "artist's control over material" argument, but when it comes to a decision over trading (or even buying) cdrs of material that isn't currently available (like current Mark Eitzel shows with new songs and no release date in sight), my fannish devotion overwhelms that concern, and I can sleep with that burden. I'll be at the shows, I'll buy the official record, but I want more than that. I want cd versions of vinyl only songs from old 12" singles, I want that live cover of a VU song, etc... In elementary terms, it's a "what they don't know, won't hurt them" logic - not very defensible, but I'm sticking to it. Reading Nancy's well-written post, I still feel this way. Because the artist wouldn't have a way of directly netting money from taped concerts (unless they release their own concert cds), I can't see it as money from the artist. All the Dead, Dylan, Van Morrison tapes out there, where each concert has its own unique moments - some people want tapes of as many shows as they can find, and there's no way a single (or multiple) official release would satisfy the craving. And - unless the artist AND venue have come out as tape-friendly - I doubt someone would risk losing their MiniDisc recorder by asking a performer for permission, so it'll remain an underground pursuit. But within my gray moral boundaries, I'd never dub a cdr of an official recording. That subverts the whole fan/devotee platform from where I derive a lot of my listening pleasure. I would tape a song or two on a mix tape, in hopes of influencing official purchases by the recipient, however. Chris, music slut np: Yo La Tengo - Electr-O-Pura, official version...
Lloyd Cole (was RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades)
once it becomes available anyway (the few boots I have are in addition to owning entire available catalog - Lloyd Cole, the Replacements, etc...) There's a name I don't believe I've seen show up here before (or at least not in a long time)anyone know what Lloyd Cole is up to these days? TL (ob. twang content: he mentions George Jones in a song on his self-titled album.)
RE: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
At 10:29 AM -0800 on 3/24/99, Hill, Christopher J wrote: And - unless the artist AND venue have come out as tape-friendly - I doubt someone would risk losing their MiniDisc recorder by asking a performer for permission, so it'll remain an underground pursuit. There's a list of taper-friendly performers on the Web; it also includes any conditions they set. I don't have a URL, but it's posted at many sites; searching for something along the lines of "tape" and "trade" and "permission" should nail it pretty quickly. Bob
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
I don't have near enough time, or energy, to listen to all the "official" recordings out there, even in our funny little genre. Where do you folks find the time to not only listen to the legit stuff, but to ferret out all the boots, too? How do you find time to watch "The Simpsons" or go see a movie, or have a job, or eat food? -- Terry Smith ps I did have the time to read all the entertaining posts about SXSW -- I'm glad you all posted them, rather than shoving them over to the Wangfest list.
Re: ISO digital Todd Snider Blue Mt. trades
Lately, a few folks have been posting and then not putting their names on their contributions. I think it's polite -- just from the standpoint of more effective communication -- to sign your messages, so we'll know who the hell is writing them, and be able to connect the P-2er with earlier posts. I don't give a shit if the names are real; what's needed is an identifier, a label, a tag. And not signing your post results in instant deflation in value of whatever you're saying. Anonymity erodes credibility. And we promise not to laugh if your name is Ethelbert or Seymour or Eula or something like that. -- Terry Smith, whose mom's name is Eula -- a good ol' fashioned Texas name
