Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

BTW: is a tappable trackpad transplant fairly simple on a 5300?

very easy and I do not understand why Apple decided not to put the 
tappable in the 5300 which was sold in the same period of the 190.

Ben
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (& intro)

[Dan K]

With great conviction Bruce Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You'll take my Kensington trackballs when you pry them out of my cold,
>dead fingers, and I've never attached a mouse to any of my Powerbooks.

"cold, dead finger"s, eh?!? 

I too love my TurboMice, first thing my new-to-me Quicksilver got was an 
iMate ADB-USB adapter so's I could use my beloved oldey TurboMouse 4 (and 
of course an Apple Extended KB II!) Isn't it strange how input devices 
really haven't improved since circa 1990? I've tried all sorts of 
mice/T-balls/T-pads and KBs, but I've not yet found anything superior (or 
even equal) to the above combination.

With 'Books, I use a USB Kensington Orbit. While not tiny, it's just 
compact enough to slip into a 'Book case. The ball is smaller than the 
billiard-sized balls I so love with my desktop, but large enough to be 
unfiddly, unlike some other portable trackballs I've seen. Cheap too, I 
think I paid $12 or thereabouts for a pair of 'em (brand new!) on eBay. I 
confess, it's mostly for gaming, ever play a FPS with a T-pad?!?

When bopping about however I still mostly use the trackpad, it does 
rather defeat alot of the portability thing dealing with a dangling 
T-ball. No matter, I'm quite comfortable switching between them. I have 
just never warmed up to mice, though I'm certainly spoiled having for so 
long used TurboMice!

dan k

.
http://macdan.n3.net/
carracho://dankephoto.dhs.org:9700
hotline://dankephoto.dhs.org:9500
.


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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Daniel De L'eau]

I use a Kensington TurboMouse Trackball.  The only problem is that my 
wrist bends more and on a backward angle compared to the trackpad. 
But generally I find it faster to use.

Someone said that tappable trackpads are quieter than mouse clicks. 
Used to be true on my trackball until my stepson broke the "clicky" 
part of the left button.  It still works, but now it's as quiet as a 
mouse.  *ahem*

BTW: is a tappable trackpad transplant fairly simple on a 5300?
--
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (& intro)

[SaulBro]

I wrote:

>>I was thinking about using a two-button USB mouse with a scrollwheel on my 
desktop >>computer, but its software is incompatible with the Kensington 
Mouseworks >>software I use for the 4-button ADB trackball I love.


Donn Haven Lathrop replied:

>>Give USB OverDrive a shot. It's well worth the shareware fee. Works with OS 
8.5 on up, and works in Classic under OS X.


It's not that the USB mouse doesn't connect and work...it works fine.  It's 
just that the software for that mouse, which activates the scrollwheel and 
button features, will not work while Kensington Mouseworks(for the the ADB 
trackball) is loaded.  Thus you can't use both the USB mouse and Kensington 
trackball 
at the same time if you want any of the features they provide.

Thanks,
Saul Broudy


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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question) (long)

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

Even worse, my iBook's trackpad is *way* oversized (like the new Powerbook's
too). I keep touching it in the wrong way with one or two fingers that don't
belong there. In addition, the very little feedback the (single) button
gives is insufficient.
It may be OT, but while I find the association trackpad+button 
perfect in any PB (including 190) I find annoying the small dimension 
of the button in the Aluminium PB that I have at the university.

I always end up with the thumb (which I use to click) that touches the index.
I don't think it is a matter of how big the trackpad is, provided 
that the button is big enough.

Bengi
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Re: Re.: Trackpad vs. Mouse

[Roger Volk (Contractor)]

	Count me on as a mouse man, I've always been frustrated by the keyboard 
and trackball/pad on powerbooks, with my 180 I had a beautiful compact 
keyboard trackball combo that was very slick, with my 3400 I use a Mac 
compact keyboard and a standard mouse.

Roger
macnifico wrote:
Count me in as a no mouse guy, too!
For years, as I was changing desktop computers, I migrated my Kensington 
4 button Trackball.
I started liking the trackball when I first got my PowerBook 165.
Time passed, and I bought a 540c. It was love at first touch. I even 
retired my Kensington Trackball for a while, and bought a lot of those 
small external trackpads. Got a lot of ten very cheaply on eBay.
However, I returned to the Trackball in the desktops, and when my son 
gave me his iMac, my first purchase for it was a Macally USB two button 
trackball. It works great with OS X.3.6.
Mice? No mice in my house.

Best regards.
Hugo Diaz
macnifico

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (& intro)

[Donn Haven Lathrop]

>>I was thinking about using a two-button USB mouse with a scrollwheel on my 
desktop computer, but its software is incompatible with the Kensington 
Mouseworks software I use for the 4-button ADB trackball I love.<<

Give USB OverDrive a shot.  It's well worth the shareware fee. Works with OS 8.5 
on up, and works in Classic under OS X.

©2003 Alessandro Levi Montalcini
distributed by Senlick Ltd.
http://www.usboverdrive.com
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.senlick.com

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (& intro)

[SaulBro]

Greetings!  I am a subscriber to several other LEM lists, but recently have 
been lurking here by reading the archive...and have I learned a lot!   I went 
from using an Outbound(pre-Powerbook clone) to a 520c to a 5300 until recently. 
 I have a couple 1400's, though have not used them much as they need some minor 
repairs.  Recently got a 3400c, which I love.  I am looking forward to now 
being a subscriber here, and to learning a lot more and perhaps contributing as 
well.

Alex wrote:

<>

I know it's not exactly the same, but have you tried Scrollability(shareware 
which provides scrolling if you move the cursor to the top or bottom of the 
window) and FinderPop(to add wonderfully-configurable contextual menus upon 
holding down the mouse button)??   

I was thinking about using a two-button USB mouse with a scrollwheel on my 
desktop computer, but its software is incompatible with the Kensington 
Mouseworks software I use for the 4-button ADB trackball I love.

Saul Broudy
Philadelphia, PA
USA
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Re: Netscape 7 for Mac OS 8/9 (was Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse...)

[Manfred]

Go there:

http://www.netscape.ca/browsers/7/download/index.jsp

and click "MAC OS 9 users click here"


> Now if you, or any fellow lister, can direct me to the download of 
> Netscape 7 for OS 8/9, I'd really appreciate it. 
> 
> Thank you  :-D

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Netscape 7 for Mac OS 8/9 (was Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse...)

[Yersinia]

manfred writes,

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=5

Yes, IE 5.1.7 ist the best browser for MacOS 8-9.x. Also Quicktimeplugin
and Flash/Shockwaveplugin are working.>

I'm sorry, I must have made the mistake of not being specific enough. I 
asked for an URL where the download was for Netscape 7 for OS 8/9. I 
don't use Microsoft anything on either of my Macs.  I did try IE 5 since 
it came with my OS 9.1 and I hated it, so I threw it in the Trash.

Now if you, or any fellow lister, can direct me to the download of 
Netscape 7 for OS 8/9, I'd really appreciate it. 

Thank you  :-D

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[manfred]

Hi,

The most popular Microsofts are here

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=5


Yes, IE 5.1.7 ist the best browser for MacOS 8-9.x. Also Quicktimeplugin
and Flash/Shockwaveplugin are working.

I like the "Black Powerbook" style :). Using text-buttons there is a lot
space on 800x600.

On 68k i suggest System 7.x and Netscape 4.03 (brwoser only). 
4.03 is quite stable (ok, there are some java errors) and it
uses only little memory. The latest releases of iCab are
memory-beasts :)


> 
> 
> Please give me an URL so I can download this, please, oh please. I've 
> been trying to find it on and off for weeks.
> 
> Thanks in advance,

 
> ~Yersinia.
> 
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Yersinia]

Andrew Kershaw writes,



Please give me an URL so I can download this, please, oh please. I've 
been trying to find it on and off for weeks.

Thanks in advance,

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question) (long)

[Daniel Palka]

What exactly IS the history of the trackpad/touchpad?
I was under the impression for the longest time that the PowerBook 500 
series was one of the first laptops anywhere that had one.

On Nov 23, 2004, at 9:39 PM, Alex Wenzel wrote:
At the beginning of the Nineties, I had one of the
*very* first trackpads on a "Triumph-Adler" 386/SX notebook (a
German-rebranded Olivetti machine).

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Andrew Kershaw]

I discovered a neat feature in IE 5 a few years ago, and it is what 
keeps me using that browser on my PowerBooks even when NS 7 is 
available for OS 8/9.  If you hold down the Command key and 
click-and-hold on the page, you can drag the page around with the 
pointer (BTW, this feature works in Finder windows as well).

Coupled with a clickable trackpad, the action simulates the function 
of a scroll wheel.  And, of course, the space bar does a "page down" 
in IE.  I don't think I've used the scrollbar in months.

That's just one reason why I love the clickable trackpad.  I'm 
indifferent about mice.  A mouse is a must for gaming, of course. 
Though I should say I've never tried UT with my Kensington 4 button 
trackball.  Aiming might take some getting used to...

It's not that I've got anything against trackballs per se, but I'm 
not really interested in taking the time to learn the fine motor 
control that is required with a trackball.  Besides, there's 
something cool about not having any moving parts in your input 
device.  ;-)

Peace,
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question) (long)

[Alex Wenzel]

Hi all,

please let me add my (very long) 2 Euro-Cents and forgive me the
Outlook-induced top-posting.
I never had a Mac until 2001, and now I've been through a lot of Macs,
including very old ones, plus additional PCs, both desktops and laptops.
IMHO, you should differ. At the beginning of the Nineties, I had one of the
*very* first trackpads on a "Triumph-Adler" 386/SX notebook (a
German-rebranded Olivetti machine). By then, I was envious of the crowd who
used trackballs. I still like the borderless way of scrolling with a
trackball. My trackpad was positioned between the keyboard and the screen,
which made it awkward to use.
But I used this machine for quite a while, and got somehow used to it. Never
used a mouse. Then came a long period of desktop PCs, and I grew accustomed
to a (two-button) mouse.
My first Mac was a Powerbook 3400c, bought used in 2001 (when it finally
became affordable for me), with OS 8.6, that reintroduced me to the Trackpad
(this time in the position where it should have been in the first place). I
really liked the 3400c (and I still prefer the OS 8/9 GUI to anything else,
BTW), which I still own. I didn't have a problem with the trackpad. What was
really missing was the second button. After a while, I bought a 6500 tower
and for this I bought a 4-button Kensington trackball. It almost never got
used, because of some problems with the 6500's hardware. At the same time, I
still used a desktop PC which had another important addition (after the
second button): the scroll wheel. After a short while, I couldn't be without
it. So, when I bought a brand new iBook at the end of 2002, my very first
peripheral to add was a two-button-plus-scroll wheel Logitech mouse. I found
this rather unfortunate, because it *does* defeat the purpose of a laptop in
some way. But why couldn't Apple finally add a second mouse button on their
laptops (they show the same stubborness with their desktops, but it's no big
issue to replace the desktop's pointing device)? I still refuse to
understand this in any way, and the fact that the Windoze world has moved on
to scroll wheels a standard equipment in the meantime hasn't made the
situation better. Most (even cheap) PC laptops today come with two or three
buttons plus a scrolling device. Hate to say that: Apple's offerings are
ridiculous in this regard (G.S., are you listening?).
Even worse, my iBook's trackpad is *way* oversized (like the new Powerbook's
too). I keep touching it in the wrong way with one or two fingers that don't
belong there. In addition, the very little feedback the (single) button
gives is insufficient.
As my computer collection grew, I also added a used IBM Thinkpad about a
year ago. This machine came with three buttons and a pointing stick (in the
middle of the keyboard) instead of a trackpad. This seems to become my
favorite solution now. It's almost impossible to move it accidentally, it
accelerates dynamically, and you don't have to move it several times to get
from one screen edge to the other. Plus, you can even scroll with it when
you hold a button and move the stick up- or downward (unfortunately, this
doesn't work with Mozilla). You can even click with it.
Message to Steve: Please add a second mouse button plus a genuine scrolling
device to your Powerbooks, plus maybe something new insanely great! That's
about what *should* come from Apple.

Alex

> -Original Message-
> From: PowerBooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> Yersinia
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 2:18 AM
> To: PowerBooks
> Subject: Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)
>
>
> Donna Hood Pointer writes,
>
>  trackpad and then leaving the arrow there and clicking? I use my right
> thumb to click and hold and then my right index finger to drag,
> sometimes using strokes.>
>
> You mean to click with the trackpad? No. I click with the clicker which
> lives immediately below-in front of the track pad. No need to click with
> a trackpad here. I don't know why THIS should be "the finger" I feel most
> physically comfortable using ;-) but I came to discover early in my first
> trackpad days that my right middle finger, yes, that one, on the trackpad
> gives me the best I can get in terms of both speed and accuracy.
>
>  wherever you want it and then leaving it
> there (it will not move) gives me great accuracy>.
>
> Getting the arrow where I want it is easier than the cursor, yes. But
> since my Powerbook's primary duty is word processing, I also have to get
> to very precise positions. Yes, by now I can do this well enough with my
> trackpad and I don't ever pack a mouse in my Powerbook's carrybag when
> getting ready to go out, but I do have to admit that when I'm doing the
> same thing at home on my G3 with the mouse, I'm mu

Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Howard R. Katz]

I prefer trackballs too.  Who has enough clean desk space to move a mouse 
around?  :)

Later.Howard

Computer  n.   A pocket calculator with a glandular problem.
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Yersinia]

Donna Hood Pointer writes,



You mean to click with the trackpad? No. I click with the clicker which 
lives immediately below-in front of the track pad. No need to click with 
a trackpad here. I don't know why THIS should be "the finger" I feel most 
physically comfortable using ;-) but I came to discover early in my first 
trackpad days that my right middle finger, yes, that one, on the trackpad 
gives me the best I can get in terms of both speed and accuracy.

.

Getting the arrow where I want it is easier than the cursor, yes. But 
since my Powerbook's primary duty is word processing, I also have to get 
to very precise positions. Yes, by now I can do this well enough with my 
trackpad and I don't ever pack a mouse in my Powerbook's carrybag when 
getting ready to go out, but I do have to admit that when I'm doing the 
same thing at home on my G3 with the mouse, I'm much more adept at it 
with the mouse.



No. I don't do Windoze.  ;-)



I'm sure!!  :-)



One time, a LONG time ago (1991 or 92 I think), I was at someone else's 
house and used his computer. He had a trackball. An awful experience for 
me! I'd never outfit any computer of mine with one of those things (my 
apologies to those of you who've replied to this thread and praised 
trackballs!), and I wouldn't buy a laptop with a trackball as compared to 
a trackpad either. Kind of like cars, almost. I drive cars with automatic 
transmission. I don't care how old and what a beater of a car it is 
otherwise, the only requirement for me is auto trans. Up until recently 
even the idea of learning HOW to drive a car with a stick shift was "out, 
out, out!" because the thought of it scared me to death. I'd be willing 
to at least learn stick now, but I still don't think I'd ever buy a car 
like that, at least not for so long as I live in one of the Heavy 
Traffic/Jerks On The Road Capital States of the USA. Equate the auto 
trans with the trackpad, the stick shift with the trackball. 

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Yersinia]

Daniel Palka writes,



Well, I fumbled plenty with my trackpad when I first got my Powerbook.  
;-) A year and a half later I'm well past this point at least. I'm still 
faster on my mouse with the G3, but I'm competent with the trackpad at 
least when I take my Powerbook out.



Nope, I don't recall anything like this in becoming accustomed to my 
trackpad I just remember having problems making the cursor (or arrow) 
go exactly where I needed them. I often overshot or undershot my goal.



Lucky for me, my trackpad has a clicker just below it. If I HAD to use a 
tappable track pad, sounds like it would drive me nuts!

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Yersinia]

Daniel Palka writes,



Wow. So when you first got a mouse, was it hard for you to get used to it 
in the same way the trackpad was for me when I first got my Powerbook?

MI think its kindof silly when people bring a mouse with their laptop.  
That defies the practicality and elegance of having a laptop.>

Exactly!  -- which was why I made myself learn the trackpad when I first 
got my Powerbook. The mouse stays in the house and is only used with my 
G3.

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Donna Hood Pointer]

Have you tried positioning the arrow using only one finger on the 
trackpad and then leaving the arrow there and clicking? I use my right 
thumb to click and hold and then my right index finger to drag, 
sometimes using strokes. But for accurate positioning of the arrow 
point, simply moving the arrow wherever you want it and then leaving it 
there (it will not move) gives me great accuracy. Have you ever tried 
to deal with a skittering Mocrosoft mouse in Windows? Any Mac trackpad 
has that beaten by a mile. On my older desktops I used to use a plug-in 
trackpad. and I have also used trackballs.

On Nov 23, 2004, at 3:31 PM, PowerBooks wrote:
Subject: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:23:48 -0500
From: Yersinia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Bruce Johnson writes,
[snip]
I do have to admit that in the beginning,  I had to "make myself" learn
to use the trackpad, and it wasn't exactly easy -- after all those 
years
on exclusive mouse use -- but the reason why I persisted was because 
most
of the places I use my Powerbook there aren't any comfortable and
convenient places for a mouse, and then I'd have to bring a mouse PAD,
too. So I forced myself to learn to use the trackpad.

I still like a mouse better than a trackpad, but in my year and a half 
or
so with my Powerbook I've gotten okay with the trackpad. My only
"problem" with the trackpad is very minor really --  I can't position 
the
cursor (or arrow) exactly where I want it as quickly with the trackpad 
as
I can with a mouse. [snip]

Okay, listers -- other than Bruce and I here who like our trackpads
enough not to use mice with our Powerbooks, do you prefer trackpads or
mice? Do any of you actually take your mice with you when you go out 
with
your Powerbooks?!

~Yersinia.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Andrew Noakes]

I'm quite happy using a mouse on a desktop Mac (though, unusually, I 
use it left-handed even though I'm right-handed). But I've never used a 
mouse on the laptops I've had, and I don't even have a compatible mouse 
for my PB1400.

And I tap my trackpad, because it's easier and quieter than clicking 
the button.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Daniel Palka]

What I also find amusing is watching people that have never used a 
laptop before fumble with a trackpad (there are surprising amount of 
people that have never touched a laptop - mostly people who buy $200 
brand new eMachines) and they just don't get it.

People will put more than one finger on it, will hold their finger 
straight up in the air, do all sorts of crazy things.

one thing i do NOT like and never like was tappable trackpad-ing.  I 
always accidently click on something or accidently drag something 
somewhere.

On Nov 23, 2004, at 4:24 PM, Daniel Palka wrote:
I prefer the trackpad.  I also get a strange look when I do "NOT" want 
to use the mouse - even if somebody else brings a mouse with their 
laptop, and I need to use it for some reason, I got straight for the 
trackpad.

I had laptops BEFORE desktops, so I'm kindof backwards to everybody 
else.  I was trackball first, then trackpad, THEN I had a mouse.

I think its kindof silly when people bring a mouse with their laptop.  
That defies the practicality and elegance of having a laptop.

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Daniel Palka]

I prefer the trackpad.  I also get a strange look when I do "NOT" want 
to use the mouse - even if somebody else brings a mouse with their 
laptop, and I need to use it for some reason, I got straight for the 
trackpad.

I had laptops BEFORE desktops, so I'm kindof backwards to everybody 
else.  I was trackball first, then trackpad, THEN I had a mouse.

I think its kindof silly when people bring a mouse with their laptop.  
That defies the practicality and elegance of having a laptop.

On Nov 23, 2004, at 1:23 PM, Yersinia wrote:
Okay, listers -- other than Bruce and I here who like our trackpads
enough not to use mice with our Powerbooks, do you prefer trackpads or
mice? Do any of you actually take your mice with you when you go out 
with
your Powerbooks?!

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Re.: Trackpad vs. Mouse

[macnifico]

Count me in as a no mouse guy, too!
For years, as I was changing desktop computers, I migrated my 
Kensington 4 button Trackball.
I started liking the trackball when I first got my PowerBook 165.
Time passed, and I bought a 540c. It was love at first touch. I even 
retired my Kensington Trackball for a while, and bought a lot of 
those small external trackpads. Got a lot of ten very cheaply on eBay.
However, I returned to the Trackball in the desktops, and when my son 
gave me his iMac, my first purchase for it was a Macally USB two 
button trackball. It works great with OS X.3.6.
Mice? No mice in my house.

Best regards.
Hugo Diaz
macnifico
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name 
wasn't Henry Porter.
Bob Dylan, "Brownsville Girl".

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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 23, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Beniamino Cenci Goga wrote:
I am a peculiar case. I was amazed by the first PowerBook trackball 
and since then, it was 1991, I replaced all my desktops mice with 
Kensington trackballs.

Then I liked the trackpad so much that I now use small Wacom tablets 
also for dragging, tapping, clicking etc..

In conclusion I am a "no mouse" guy.
Not so peculiar. You'll take my Kensington trackballs when you pry them 
out of my cold, dead fingers, and I've never attached a mouse to any of 
my Powerbooks.

Wacom tablets are nice, but get weird when you have large multi-monitor 
setups.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Ph macy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
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Re: Trackpad vs. Mouse (was Re: 5300c question)

[Beniamino Cenci Goga]

I am a peculiar case. I was amazed by the first PowerBook trackball 
and since then, it was 1991, I replaced all my desktops mice with 
Kensington trackballs.

Then I liked the trackpad so much that I now use small Wacom tablets 
also for dragging, tapping, clicking etc..

In conclusion I am a "no mouse" guy.
Ben
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