Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[MB]

Jefferis Peterson said:

>What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
>deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
>to a folder on my computer.

What do you mean "move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my
computer"? You lost messages when copying already downloaded messages to
another folder? Or do you mean you copied them via IMAP? 

I do not trust PowerMail with deleting messages via POP. I just let the
server deal with them.

But POP is tired. IMAP is way hotter. What kind of people these days
want *only* download messages to one location? Leaving messages on the
server is the norm as far as I can see.

One other big major drawback with PowerMail is physical folders.
Physical folders are tired. Virtual folders are wired. We should have
had them in version 5 already. Really. 

The only reason I stay with PM is I don't have time to familiarize
myself with another client and most other clients interface details suck
to some extent. But PM is aging and is in need of rejuvenation.



MB

Technoids:
PM 6.0.5 build 4621 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1.5TB/MB

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Jefferis Peterson]

On 8/25/10 5:05 PM, "PowerMail discussions"   wrote:

>>> However:
>>> Just for such cases (mobile mailing_and_  home/office mailing with the
>>> same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's
>>> much better and safer then a POP3 account.
>>> 
>>> To understand the big difference have a look at this:
>>>
Well, for mobile apps, that makes sense I guess. But for the home
office, I don't want to store mail on the server and have it set to
delete it after 30 days. Having a local copy and a searchable database
of emails is part of my workflow.  Otherwise with IMAP I have to leave
it disorganized online or I have to duplicate my folder structure on the
server. That is a pain and a duplication of my efforts. Not efficient or
helpful.

Jeff


Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com
(724)-482-2015

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Rene Merz]

Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben:

>> How?
>> Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage?
>> Sounds crazy ...
>>
>> You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but
>> problems are preprogrammed.
>>
>
>Come on it isn't that complex.  I have a laptop. On the laptop when I am
>away, I check POP  email on my site. I sort the mail as it comes in. I'm
>testing PM as a replacement for Entourage.
>When I get home, I fire up my desktop and run Entourage. All the email not
>manually deleted in PM on the laptop SHOULD remain on the server for
>download in Entourage.
>What I found is that some of the messages that should have been left on the
>server were gone.

I don't know how Entourage works, but I guess it's different from PM ...

However:
Just for such cases (mobile mailing _and_ home/office mailing with the
same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's
much better and safer then a POP3 account.

To understand the big difference have a look at this:




Helpful for the IMAP installation on PM:

()

And finally:
You better work with the same mail software on laptop and home pc.

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Jefferis Peterson]

On 8/25/10 11:39 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:

> 
> How?
> Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage?
> Sounds crazy ...
> 
> You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but
> problems are preprogrammed.
> 

Come on it isn't that complex.  I have a laptop. On the laptop when I am
away, I check POP  email on my site. I sort the mail as it comes in. I'm
testing PM as a replacement for Entourage.
When I get home, I fire up my desktop and run Entourage. All the email not
manually deleted in PM on the laptop SHOULD remain on the server for
download in Entourage.
What I found is that some of the messages that should have been left on the
server were gone. 

Jeff

Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com
(724)-482-2015

powermail-discuss Digest #2871 - 08/25/10

[PowerMail discussions]

powermail-discuss Digest #2871 - Wednesday, August 25, 2010

  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Jefferis Peterson" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "MB" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Rene Merz" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Jefferis Peterson" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Rene Merz" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Jefferis Peterson" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Rene Merz" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Tim lapin" 
  Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
  by "Mirko Kranenburg" 


--

Subject: Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
From: "Jefferis Peterson" 
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:17:01 -0400

On 8/21/10 9:46 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:

> 
> Well, did you check-it really?
> What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail.
> The two programs are different ...
Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from
deleting read emails?
Jeff

Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com
(724)-482-2015



--

Subject: Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
From: "MB" 
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:21:00 +0200

Jefferis Peterson said:

>Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from
>deleting read emails?
That depends on the server software and the possible settings there,
doesn't it? As I've had similar experiences to yours I can only say that
it could be worth investigating, however I'd rather select another email
package than have to go trough that kind of analysis project again.

The only conclusion I could reach from my investigations was that from
time to time PowerMail does not agree with the mail server what messages
have been downloaded or not , which in my case led to a few messages
being apparently lost and tens of thousands of messages getting
redownloaded even though I already had them.

As a contrast Apple's Mail performs without any problems with the same
accounts (but if this is because it's better at handling the
communication with Mail servers I can't know for sure as I had been
using PowerMail previously on the same accounts and to most extent the
same messages).
Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox
per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly
loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I
have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon.

However, I'm not sure that the cause of your problems must be related to
those I had. PowerMail never deleted messages in some kind of regular
fashion when PowerMail was set to not remove messages from the server at
any point in my experience.

Can you get a communication log from when this problem occurs I suppose
it could be useful finding the cause. /MB


--

Subject: Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
From: "Rene Merz" 
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:30:16 +0200

Jefferis Peterson wrote:


>> What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail.
>> The two programs are different ...
>Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from
>deleting read emails?

PM itself never delets any mails; it always needs an action (or the
activation of a filter) by the user.

Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on "deleting
mails if they are deleted on the mail client" (or similar).
It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails
will be deleted on the server too (during next connection).



--

Subject: Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
From: "Jefferis Peterson" 
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:45:18 -0400

On 8/25/10 3:30 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:

> Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on "deleting
> mails if they are deleted on the mail client" (or similar).
> It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails
> will be deleted on the server too (during next connection).

My settings are "leave copies of retrieved messages on server"  to allow my
mobile platform not to delete copies for my home computer,
BUT to "delete from server when deleting locally" so junk mail and
irrelevant stuff is removed.

What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
to a folder on my computer.

It was an irregular occurrence, and I could not predict when or why it was
happening.   I have access to logs but I'd have to know which ones to look
at and what to look for. And then to know exactly when it occurred, which is
hard to figure out because I don't know anything is amiss until I fire

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Mirko Kranenburg]

Same here! Every now and then I make do with a set of BCC-rules and other 
patch-tricks to emulate IMAP behaviour but after some time I move back to Mail 
again (having tried all the others). And then back to PowerMail. etc...
But IMAP feels like the inevitable future, and I keep hoping some open source 
or whatever solution will be integrated to bring PM back in that race. And then 
I will be back at PowerMail, and I would even pay a hefty upgrade fee.

Op 25 aug 2010, om 17:52 heeft Tim lapin het volgende geschreven:

> Sounds *exactly* like my experience.
> 
> I too am moving towards IMAP, be it gmail or the MS Exchange version. It is 
> not so much a choice as a realization that to do what I need to do with 
> e-mail requires the migration from POP to IMAP.
> 
> Yes, the interface in Mail is decidedly messier and busier than that of 
> PowerMail.  I have always liked PM's clean look and might, therefore, go back 
> to it full time *IF* IMAP was given equal consideration as POP.
> 
> On 25/08/2010 3:21 AM, MB wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox
>> per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly
>> loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I
>> have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon
> 

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Tim lapin]

Sounds *exactly* like my experience.

I too am moving towards IMAP, be it gmail or the MS Exchange version. 
It is not so much a choice as a realization that to do what I need to do 
with e-mail requires the migration from POP to IMAP.


Yes, the interface in Mail is decidedly messier and busier than that of 
PowerMail.  I have always liked PM's clean look and might, therefore, go 
back to it full time *IF* IMAP was given equal consideration as POP.


On 25/08/2010 3:21 AM, MB wrote:


Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox
per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly
loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I
have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Rene Merz]

Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben:

>On 8/25/10 10:39 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:
>
>>> What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
>>> deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
>>> to a folder on my computer.
>> How do-you mean that?
>> It is impossible to "move" any mail from the PM-inbox to somewhere else
>> outside PM. The only way for such an operation is to save a text copy of
>> a mail (menu file > save as text); but the original mail remains on PM.
>>
>> But, of course, if you save (= download) it from the mail server (for to
>> save-it in a folder on your computer) then it is labeled for the mail
>> server as "read" _and_ if it is not the same time on PM it will be
>> deleted by the mail server - logically, because mails which are not in
>> the database of PM look for the mail server like "deleted locally".
>>
>What I mean is that  I have filters that will file incoming "business" mail
>from the inbox to a folder named "Business"  in PM.
>
>What I'm finding is that some of the messages moved, not deleted, but moved
>to the folder are NOT appearing or being downloaded when I fire up say
>Entourage on my desktop. They just disappear from the server.

How?
Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage?
Sounds crazy ...

You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but
problems are preprogrammed.

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Jefferis Peterson]

On 8/25/10 10:39 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:

>> What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
>> deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
>> to a folder on my computer.
> How do-you mean that?
> It is impossible to "move" any mail from the PM-inbox to somewhere else
> outside PM. The only way for such an operation is to save a text copy of
> a mail (menu file > save as text); but the original mail remains on PM.
> 
> But, of course, if you save (= download) it from the mail server (for to
> save-it in a folder on your computer) then it is labeled for the mail
> server as "read" _and_ if it is not the same time on PM it will be
> deleted by the mail server - logically, because mails which are not in
> the database of PM look for the mail server like "deleted locally".
> 
What I mean is that  I have filters that will file incoming "business" mail
from the inbox to a folder named "Business"  in PM.

What I'm finding is that some of the messages moved, not deleted, but moved
to the folder are NOT appearing or being downloaded when I fire up say
Entourage on my desktop. They just disappear from the server.

It is happening infrequently, but often enough that I noticed something is
not right. 
Jeff

Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com
(724)-482-2015

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Rene Merz]

Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben:

>My settings are "leave copies of retrieved messages on server"  to allow my
>mobile platform not to delete copies for my home computer,
>BUT to "delete from server when deleting locally" so junk mail and
>irrelevant stuff is removed.
>
>What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
>deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
>to a folder on my computer.
How do-you mean that?
It is impossible to "move" any mail from the PM-inbox to somewhere else
outside PM. The only way for such an operation is to save a text copy of
a mail (menu file > save as text); but the original mail remains on PM.

But, of course, if you save (= download) it from the mail server (for to
save-it in a folder on your computer) then it is labeled for the mail
server as "read" _and_ if it is not the same time on PM it will be
deleted by the mail server - logically, because mails which are not in
the database of PM look for the mail server like "deleted locally".

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Jefferis Peterson]

On 8/25/10 3:30 AM, "Rene Merz"   wrote:

> Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on "deleting
> mails if they are deleted on the mail client" (or similar).
> It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails
> will be deleted on the server too (during next connection).

My settings are "leave copies of retrieved messages on server"  to allow my
mobile platform not to delete copies for my home computer,
BUT to "delete from server when deleting locally" so junk mail and
irrelevant stuff is removed.

What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be
deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox
to a folder on my computer.

It was an irregular occurrence, and I could not predict when or why it was
happening.   I have access to logs but I'd have to know which ones to look
at and what to look for. And then to know exactly when it occurred, which is
hard to figure out because I don't know anything is amiss until I fire up an
alternate email program and see a discrepancy.  That is more effort than I
need to find a functioning email program.
> 
On 8/25/10 3:21 AM, "MB"   wrote:

> 
> However, I'm not sure that the cause of your problems must be related to
> those I had. PowerMail never deleted messages in some kind of regular
> fashion when PowerMail was set to not remove messages from the server at
> any point in my experience.
> 
> Can you get a communication log from when this problem occurs I suppose
> it could be useful finding the cause. /MB



Jefferis Peterson, Pres.
Web Design and Marketing
http://www.PetersonSales.com
(724)-482-2015

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[Rene Merz]

Jefferis Peterson wrote:


>> What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail.
>> The two programs are different ...
>Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from
>deleting read emails?

PM itself never delets any mails; it always needs an action (or the
activation of a filter) by the user.

Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on "deleting
mails if they are deleted on the mail client" (or similar).
It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails
will be deleted on the server too (during next connection).

Re: Switching to Powermail maybe

[MB]

Jefferis Peterson said:

>Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from
>deleting read emails?
That depends on the server software and the possible settings there,
doesn't it? As I've had similar experiences to yours I can only say that
it could be worth investigating, however I'd rather select another email
package than have to go trough that kind of analysis project again.

The only conclusion I could reach from my investigations was that from
time to time PowerMail does not agree with the mail server what messages
have been downloaded or not , which in my case led to a few messages
being apparently lost and tens of thousands of messages getting
redownloaded even though I already had them.

As a contrast Apple's Mail performs without any problems with the same
accounts (but if this is because it's better at handling the
communication with Mail servers I can't know for sure as I had been
using PowerMail previously on the same accounts and to most extent the
same messages). 
Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox
per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly
loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I
have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon. 

However, I'm not sure that the cause of your problems must be related to
those I had. PowerMail never deleted messages in some kind of regular
fashion when PowerMail was set to not remove messages from the server at
any point in my experience.

Can you get a communication log from when this problem occurs I suppose
it could be useful finding the cause. /MB