Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann told:

>yet to see such an
>email address", but it wasn't like there was someone out there with an
>email address containing accented or umlauted characters

For some reason I feel compelled to point out that I obviously knew this
was the reason I hadn't seen any. As now have been established, this
side-issue has absolutely nothing to do with the accented character
problem in the native PowerMail addressbook that now have both have been
verified and for which two workarounds have been found as well. Let's
leave it like that.

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

Sean McBride ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

>>> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
>>> to see such an email address)
>>
>> And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
>> characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
>> are not allowed in mail addresses.
>
> See also:
> 

Just to clear that up: with "never", I didn't intend to mean "never
until the heat-death of the universe", just "never, given current
internet standards". MB had mentioned that he had "yet to see such an
email address", but it wasn't like there was someone out there with an
email address containing accented or umlauted characters, and once this
person would write MB, he would eventually see such an email address. He
hasn't seen such an email address because there aren't any.

Obviously, current restrictions can be lifted and characters outside the
ASCII range will some day be allowed in email addresses. When that
happens, PowerMail should be updated to conform to the new standard.
Until then, it should conform to (and even enforce) the current standard.

(Now, personally, I am not a big fan of international email addresses,
even when perhaps I should, given that my name contains a character
outside the ASCII range. But that's a different issue.)

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Sean McBride]

Michael J. Hußmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on 13/11/07 18:58 said:

>> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
>> to see such an email address)
>
>And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
>characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
>are not allowed in mail addresses.

See also:


Sean

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Damienn]

From MB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-11-13 14.18 (+0100 GMT)

>typed accented characters in the native PowerMail addressbook doesn't
>show up in the displayed name. This also extends to the header of sent
>messages, so it's not just a cosmetic problem. Umlauts do work, however.

I can also confirm this misbehaviour.

Earlier versions of PowerMail didn't have this problem. My PowerMail
Address book contains several accented names I _typed_ in (using those
earlier versions) and those names still display correctly.

This version (5.5.3) does have the aforementioned problem.

Damienn

___

2 GHz Intel Core Duo iMac / OS X Tiger 10.4.9 / PowerMail 5.5.3

___

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann said:

>This appears to be a problem not with accented characters as such, but
>with dead keys like "`", "´", or "~". CTM developers in Geneva wouldn't
>experience this problem as they can type most of those accented
>characters directly on their French keyboards, without resorting to
dead keys.

Yes, I'm going to supply this information in a followup to my bug report
(to CTM Dev).

Meanwhile I'm going to use the workaround with pasting. I also
discovered that, if I first write an umlaut, and then go back and
exchange that for the accented character, then it also displays properly.

Mikael

Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

Michael J. Hußmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Ah, I see! Now I get the same behaviour you are experiencing! So there's
> a bug in the code accepting keyboard input in the address book. It works
> just fine if I enter the name in the mail's address field directly. This
> should narrow the issue down far enough for CTM to quickly fix it.

This appears to be a problem not with accented characters as such, but
with dead keys like "`", "´", or "~". CTM developers in Geneva wouldn't
experience this problem as they can type most of those accented
characters directly on their French keyboards, without resorting to dead keys.

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Could you please try again, and this time *type* the accented characters?

Ah, I see! Now I get the same behaviour you are experiencing! So there's
a bug in the code accepting keyboard input in the address book. It works
just fine if I enter the name in the mail's address field directly. This
should narrow the issue down far enough for CTM to quickly fix it.

It appears I usually enter names and addresses into the address book
from the context menue (which doesn't have this issue, as does copy&paste).

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> You're missing the obvious here. The part I have difficulties with is
> NOT the actual mail address in itself, but the name part that come
> BEFORE the mail address.

I know; I just added my remark about accented characters in email
addresses because you had mentioned those as well in your message to
CTM. In my experience, PowerMail has no trouble whatsoever in dealing
with accented or umlauted characters in real names. It doesn't accept
those characters in an email addresses (as you mentioned), but that's
correct behaviour.

> The address is between brackets and we
> are both in agreement what characters can be contained there. However
> the name part is still an integral part of the header. I have had
> several problems with accented and umlaut characters there.

Yes, and I am unable to reproduce these problems with PowerMail 5.5.3.
And I never experienced an issue like this in the past, with previous
versions of PowerMail (which I've been using since 2000, migrating from
Claris Emailer).

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann said:

>MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
>> address bok, not Apple Address book:
>>
>> Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> and report how that works? What is the displayed name?
>
>The displayed name is "Eva Holgén", just as it should be.

Here's something funny going on. If I paste "Holgén" from my message the
it does display properly. However, if I type it, the displayed name is
cut off the character before the accented one.
The accented characters do look exactly the same. i e "é". Actually, if
I type the accented characters and then cut the name containing it out
and paste it back, it does display! So that's a workaround. This is
still a bug however, so I'd like make sure other people do have the same
behaviour in their copies of PM.
Could you please try again, and this time *type* the accented characters?

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann said:

>Yes, the current standard might change some day. But as of today, only a
>subset of ASCII characters are allowed, and if PowerMail doesn't accept
>anything else, that's just correct behaviour. What good would it do you
>if you could enter an address that must be wrong?

You're missing the obvious here. The part I have difficulties with is
NOT the actual mail address in itself, but the name part that come
BEFORE the mail address. In our example it's the first two words in "Eva
Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The address is between brackets and we
are both in agreement what characters can be contained there. However
the name part is still an integral part of the header. I have had
several problems with accented and umlaut characters there.

In my experience importing messages with umlauts and accented characters
from Claris Emailer and other email clients that displays properly in
Emailer can be destroyed to gibberish, especially so in the header. And
typed accented characters in the native PowerMail addressbook doesn't
show up in the displayed name. This also extends to the header of sent
messages, so it's not just a cosmetic problem. Umlauts do work, however.

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
> address bok, not Apple Address book:
>
> Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> and report how that works? What is the displayed name?

The displayed name is "Eva Holgén", just as it should be.

> Today it isn't. Never? I don't think so. There are umlauts in
> web URLs now. At least under some top domains.

Yes, the current standard might change some day. But as of today, only a
subset of ASCII characters are allowed, and if PowerMail doesn't accept
anything else, that's just correct behaviour. What good would it do you
if you could enter an address that must be wrong?

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Matthias Schmidt]

Am/On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:20:36 +0100 schrieb/wrote MB:

>Michael J. Hußmann said:
>>You are really talking about accented letters
>Yes. Thanks for the correct term.
>
>>So far, I've experienced no problems
>>with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
>>characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
>>few of these).
>
>Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
>address bok, not Apple Address book:
>
>Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>and report how that works? What is the displayed name?

I have Jérôme in my address book ... no problem at all,

all the best

Matthias

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann suggested:

>And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
>characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
>are not allowed in mail addresses.


Today it isn't. Never? I don't think so. There are umlauts in web URLs
now. At least under some top domains.



Mikael

Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[MB]

Michael J. Hußmann said:
>You are really talking about accented letters
Yes. Thanks for the correct term.

>So far, I've experienced no problems
>with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
>characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
>few of these).

Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
address bok, not Apple Address book:

Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

and report how that works? What is the displayed name?


Mikael

Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
> to see such an email address)

And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
are not allowed in mail addresses.

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de

Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)

[Michael J . Hußmann]

MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
> to see such an email address) then the displayed name will be shortened
> to the letters prior to the letter with an apostrophe. So "Camilla
> Berndzén" will be shortened to "Camilla Berndz" for example.
> Worse is that if you type "Berndzén" as in my example with the previous
> mentioned data in the PM adressbook, then nothing is found if you get to
> the letter with the apostrophe. If you only type "Bernd" you do find the
> person. This could easily be overlooked if the user unknowingly types fast.
>
> Further comment for the list:
> I have been and continue to be a bit surprised with how badly PowerMail
> handles umlauts (å, ä, ö, ü) and apostrophes (á, é, à, è, í, ì and so
> on), especially considering CTM is a swiss outfit and several of the
> languages spoken in Switzerland do make use of both umlauts or apostrophes.

You are really talking about accented letters here, not apostrophes. "á"
is a single character, not an "a" and an apostrophe. But anyway, I'm not
seeing any of this in PowerMail. So far, I've experienced no problems
with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
few of these).

- Michael


Michael J. Hußmann

E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de