Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
listes said: >I would agree, just deleting the index and rebuilding it may be better >:-) Well, after rebuilding the index on several occasions, I found it didn't take significantly less time than building it from scratch after deletion and rebuilding often didn't succeed too. Rebuilding twice does of course take longer time. While building from scratch may take a little longer in theory it does work, for me at least, every time. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Mikael Byström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I managed to solve this forced rebuild indices problem only by *deleting* > the "Message Database index" file before rebuilding. While the cause of > forced rebuilding have been unknown, this have never failed me. Here on a new MBP I got this issue because after reinstalling PM from scratch, I got the idea of just copying bluntly the old PM files folder back in place, which had the consequence that it changed its files permissions. After reallocating all permissions to the current user, I found that there was still this issue of the index, and I had to give read/write permissions, on that index file, to all the "group", not only the user. Now it works. I would agree, just deleting the index and rebuilding it may be better :-) -- remove ".listes" and add a dot after fh please enlevez ".listes" et ajoutez un point après fh
Re: RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
>>Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the >>folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the >>'regular' folders. > >This is not necessarily a good solution, unless the different >characteristics of a smart folder are clearly indicated. Smart folders should have a different color or icon, or both, like Apple's implementation. I wish the current folder list (and any possible new "smart" folder additions) were user-resortable. It is annoying to have to insert all sorts of odd characters to have the folders I use near the top where I can see them. Would this order be impossible to store somewhere in the PowerMail Exchange format (?). If I had regular folders and smart folders in one list, I would also want an additional icon in the menu bar to show/hide folders and one to show/ hide smart folders. If you don't like to see them, hide them. I don't think anyone who currently uses Apple's apps and wants to move to something more advanced would be thrown by the presence of "smart" folders in their folder list. Or, if the menu bar is not the place, the little bar at the top of the Folder List is wasted space (both separately and in the combined Mail Browser window). Put two icons there to show/hide regular and "smart" folders. Hey, we had the eyeball thing endlessly confusing people... this shouldn't be too painful. ;) The Recent Mail window as a smart folder would be able to open in its own window, like regular folders currently do. Just keep the special keyboard shortcut for it. (Tangential Feature Request: build in some option for keyboard shortcuts for user-defined folders like we have shortcuts for user-defined color of labels? Ten folder shortcuts. Mmmm...) (Tangent 2: I also would appreciate (at least a preference for) the RMW to remember its contents between program restarts.) I first would have thought to make the Recent Mail window to be a tabbed option in tandem with the Mail Browser section next to the Folder List, ala Adobe-app-palette-tabs-style, that you can pull apart or rejoin at will -- but the smart folder thing makes more sense, as has been stated. >>This is the exact reason I'd like to have the RMW integrated into the >>browser too. > >What reason would that be? What are the benefits of this arrangement? >how would things work differently to be better than before? >This have not been demonstrated. Three pane Mail Browser window = Folder List + 2-pane open Folder (whichever is selected in the list). Integrated RMW would replace that 2- pane section of an all-encompassing Folder view with the specific view of the RMW. Keep the Keyboard shortcut to switch between them. That way I can: 1. pull the Mail Browser window out of the way to access that open mail message underneath that I'm writing, or... 2. Windowshade _one_ window (the Mail Brower) out of view to do as #1 or to grab something off the Desktop _instead of having to windowshade two_ (Mail Browser, then the RMW). (I know, Expose yada yada yada, but Windowshade works, IMHO.) 3. I only have to align one window in my tiny iBook screen, not two. I have less chance of clicking between a palette and my document in InDesign or Photoshop and hitting a PowerMail window underneath bringing the whole kit and kaboodle to the front. 4. I tend to click on a slightly overlapping Mail Browser/RMW rather than Ctrl-Cmd-R, a key combo I find difficult to invoke for some reason (I'm right-handed?). It would be easier for me to click a folder in the Folder List than to click the RMW as I am already at the Folder List and the RMW overlaps to the right of my Mail Browser not the left (overlaps right so I can hit the title bar to select. Overlapping left means the close widget is what I'm clicking on, or a something _in_ the window, say a different message than I have selected, etc.) Chris --
Re: RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
Rick Lecoat said: >I do agree that your argument about the message browser being for >listing messages in *definite* locations has a certain logic to it. But >I am not convinced that it outweighs (for me) the usability factor. By >your argument there is no place in the browser for any sort of 'smart' >folder (which would surely operate in the same way as the recent mail >window, displaying messages from disparate locations according to >specified criteria), and smart folders are something that I would love >to see implemented in PM -- they would do away with many of my recurring >gripes in one fell swoop. Sensible and well implemented graphical interfaces reflects the true nature of the possibilities of the underlying technology. Smart folders that you suggest, and that have been suggested by others including myself in the past, is not in place today as you know. The concept of smart folders may work in PowerMail also for new comers, but in my opinion they should be clearly separate entities in the interface. Also on *striking* thing seems very unclear in your suggestion. You say that "I want to have both the browser and recent mail windows showing at the same time" and "Constantly having to bring one or the other to the foreground is a bit annoying, and to keep closing one and reopening it would be even more so." Now, exactly how would putting the recent mail window in the browser window accomplish what you're asking for? Just how? HINT: How do you view the content of 2 folders at the same time in the browser today? (answer: You can't. Unless you open a second window.) You'd have to constantly switch between the folders, losing your scroll position in the list (this is what happens today when folder switching) and finally to get something done you'd probably open the RMF (Recent Mail Folder) in its separate window anyway. Compare that to keyboard shortcuts you can use today to move between the browser (Ctrl-Cmd-B) and the recent mail window (Ctrl-Cmd-R). That's both faster and more versatile. Plus you can arrange the windows to have them side by side too. Yes, you can. So, again, where's the gain? What are the benefits of your suggestion? What problem would it solve? >Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the >folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the >'regular' folders. This is not necessarily a good solution, unless the different characteristics of a smart folder are clearly indicated. If the folder doesn't *have to* be in the browser at all times, there's not a loss to optionally have it there, of course. But as a default, it doesn't make much sense. Future incarnations of PowerMail should make more sense, not less. >I'm aware that that is a personal taste thing, but >visual neatness is a hallmark of PM and this would not, IMO, be out of >keeping with that. It should be noted that visual "neatness" and usefulness doesn't automatically go hand in hand. Usefulness can be neat, but does neat imply useful? I certainly don't think so. >The problem for me is one of screen real estate. I want to have both the >browser and recent mail windows showing at the same time Same issue for me. Your solution would steal screen estate from my 200+ folders and move them down out of sight. If smart folders are made possible in the browser many people would add as many smart folders to soon necessitate a smart folder browser of its own. So alternative solutions for placement would be necessary and I'm sure there are better possible solutions, that actually do solve the problem areas you have touched upon. Something your suggestion actually doesn't, as far as I have understood them so far. Nevertheless, I regard your wishes to be important for all of us to identify and understand functionality that PowerMail users feel they need. Unfortunately, because we on this list have a habit to try and solve the problem we talk far too little on what functional end result that we feel we need and why we need that and too much on specific solutions. Can we please try and focus this discussion to something more constructive and leave actual problem solving and design to CTM? Not to say, good ideas couldn't be discussed, but our function ought to be to know what we want to achieve with PowerMail and why we want it. The how, ie the solution to the problems brought forward by us, is CTMs job, not ours. No? Perhaps, instead of getting stuck on the merits of putting window in part A or B, we could zoom out of the problems and try and tell what we'd need PowerMail to do for us? I'm sure that would be very useful for CTM to hear about. I have to think before I post on this myself. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
Paul Collett said: >a folder dedicated to all your recent mail that will >still be there even if you shut down, plus a copy of the mail in it's >"home folder". Generally, I feel that because duplicate messages requires that all message attributes are kept synched to be truly useful, your solution is too limited. This would never work for me as I get too many messages. While your solution does sound cumbersome, superficial and lacking in many ways, it still could work for people with limited amount of messages. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re(2): RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
This might have been mentioned before, but something I've set up to replace the recent mail window and keep a record of recent mail even after shut-downs is a filter immediately after the spam filters with the following basic conditions: Move message into folder (New Mail) - which I've created at the root level of the folder list Execute Apple Script (Duplicate Message) and unchecked "Don't apply subsequent filters to this message" - this ensures the message is processed by subsequent filters and a copy ends up where you want it to be. This way you get a folder dedicated to all your recent mail that will still be there even if you shut down, plus a copy of the mail in it's "home folder". Add whatever other filters you need here. For example if you don't want the message status to be flagged as unread in both it's home folder and the "new mail" folder, the following will only flag it as unread in the "new mail" folder: Set status to read Execute Applescript Duplicate Message Set Status to Unread Move message into folder New Mail And so on. Seems to work well... On 3/21/06 8:39 PM Rick Lecoat wrote: > >Constantly having to bring one or the other to the foreground is a bit >annoying, and to keep closing one and reopening it would be even more >so. Really, though, I think that it comes down to the fact that I really >want all my email activity to take place in one window, not two, just >for visual neatness. I'm aware that that is a personal taste thing, but >visual neatness is a hallmark of PM and this would not, IMO, be out of >keeping with that.
Re: RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
Yes. All one has to do is spend a few minutes in Mail and play around with the smart folders to see how unbelievably powerful they are. After all what is RMW but a smart window with the criteria of 'new message since last restart'. -- Andy Fragen On Tue, Mar 21, 2006, Rick Lecoat said: >The ideal, for me, would be to have the ability to set up smart folders >in the browser -- which would effectively do away with the need for the >RMW. Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the >folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the >'regular' folders.
Re: RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
Mikael; I certainly agree that newcomers should be amply catered for; they are the lifeblood of any small developer. However, this is POWERmail... and having a greater degree of sophistication available for those who want it would seem to go along with the name, and cannot be a bad thing provided the GUI is sensibly and well implemented. I do agree that your argument about the message browser being for listing messages in *definite* locations has a certain logic to it. But I am not convinced that it outweighs (for me) the usability factor. By your argument there is no place in the browser for any sort of 'smart' folder (which would surely operate in the same way as the recent mail window, displaying messages from disparate locations according to specified criteria), and smart folders are something that I would love to see implemented in PM -- they would do away with many of my recurring gripes in one fell swoop. The problem for me is one of screen real estate. I want to have both the browser and recent mail windows showing at the same time because I'm always looking at one or the other, and because I want to have several columns showing in each, they inevitably overlap each other all the time. If I put both windows side by side, even without showing all of the columns that I want to refer to, they take up the whole width of my monitor -- and that's a 23" cinema display. Constantly having to bring one or the other to the foreground is a bit annoying, and to keep closing one and reopening it would be even more so. Really, though, I think that it comes down to the fact that I really want all my email activity to take place in one window, not two, just for visual neatness. I'm aware that that is a personal taste thing, but visual neatness is a hallmark of PM and this would not, IMO, be out of keeping with that. The ideal, for me, would be to have the ability to set up smart folders in the browser -- which would effectively do away with the need for the RMW. Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the 'regular' folders. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio -- Original message: Received from Mikael Byström on 21/3/06 at 10:11 >This doesn't make much sense actually. What's the gain? The Recent Mail >window is one button press action away. It's an overview of what recent >messages there are in in the browsers database. These are not part of the >mail DB in that location. To not clearly put these somewhere else other >than in the browser would be confusing for many, especially newcomers. > >CTM should design for newcomers, many newcomers. We need them.
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Well, the previous discussions about this subject (and there have been many!) would seem to favour having the RMW turned into a sort of smart folder in the folder list, presumably positioned alongside the In Tray and Out Tray. Thus it wold be no more intrusive than any other folder -- if you don't use then you would presumably simply not click on it. Inevitably everybody has slightly different interface preferences (I mean personal preferences, not app preferences!). These are mine; I have no idea whether I am in a majority or not. Making those features that divide the user base preference-configurable is generally a good idea I think. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio -- Original message: Received from computer artwork by subhash on 21/3/06 at 09:02 >Rick Lecoat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > >> And the Recent Mail window integrated into the browser... > >NO! please do not do this! Or let me select an option to do not show >it. I NEVER use this window, it is completely unneccesary to me.
RMW in browser (was "Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices")
Rick Lecoat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > And the Recent Mail window integrated into the browser... This doesn't make much sense actually. What's the gain? The Recent Mail window is one button press action away. It's an overview of what recent messages there are in in the browsers database. These are not part of the mail DB in that location. To not clearly put these somewhere else other than in the browser would be confusing for many, especially newcomers. CTM should design for newcomers, many newcomers. We need them. Luckily, I think PowerMails interface, with few exceptions, is proof of that CTM is designing wisely without listening too much to user whims. Some parts do remain unforgiveable, like the search dialog giving the wrong expectations on the results possible and the mail filter window not being built to handle many filters in an elegant way. But these are separate issues and have been discussed on list already. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Rick Lecoat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > And the Recent Mail window integrated into the browser... NO! please do not do this! Or let me select an option to do not show it. I NEVER use this window, it is completely unneccesary to me. -- http://www.subhash.at
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
I managed to solve this forced rebuild indices problem only by *deleting* the "Message Database index" file before rebuilding. While the cause of forced rebuilding have been unknown, this have never failed me. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Yes, the filtering options are one of the primary reasons that I always return to PM after checking out each new incarnation of Mail (which I do with every new 'full' version of OS X -- Jaguar, Panther, Tiger etc.) Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would DEARLY love to be able to group filters into folders rather than have to scroll through a list of 100 or more. The folders would not need to disrupt the order in which filters get applied; they could simply be invisible as far as that is concerned. I see them working in much in the same way that Photoshop's layer sets work. Pretty please CTM? And that option to not have the Recent mail Window wiped clear at restart. And the Recent Mail window integrated into the browser... And... Aw, you've heard this all from me before anyway. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio -- Original message: Received from Victor Orly on 20/3/06 at 17:30 >The main reasons I use PM are for its outstanding >filtering structure (I don't use it for Anti-Spam, I own a >Barracuda for that), but PM's ability to strip attachments >from the mail database automatically- which to my >knowledge, neither Apple Mail or Entourage can do > >Victor
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
The main reasons I use PM are for its outstanding filtering structure (I don't use it for Anti-Spam, I own a Barracuda for that), but PM's ability to strip attachments from the mail database automatically- which to my knowledge, neither Apple Mail or Entourage can do Victor On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:19:25 + "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't help thinking that maybe PM should be able to >deal with such > corrupted HTML messages more gracefully than this. >Victor alone would > seem to have lost 24 hours or more of time to this >problem. Certain > things need to be acknowledged I think: > > 1. Whatever our feelings about them, we all receive HTML >messages. > 2. HTML messages can become corrupted. > 3. By the very nature of email, many people will have >mail databases > dating back several years. > 4. If one corrupt email can throw PowerMail completely >for a loop, then > there *must* be a better way of assisting the user to >locate that > problem message than simply relying on them to sift >through 30... 50... > 100,000 messages trying to find the one. Assuming that >they can get PM > to open in order to do it of course. > > Even if it's just a crash log entry recording where the >offending > message is in the database, that would be some help. > > Rick > > -- > G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 >pane mode > > Shark Attack: A Design Studio > > > -- > Original message: > Received from A-NO-NE Music on 20/3/06 at 16:55 > >>Victor Orly / 2006/03/20 / 11:16 AM wrote: >> >>>Now, three time over the last two days, it wants to >>>rebuild the sort inces - which takes 12+ HOURS. When it >>>is >>>done, it just closes right away and wants to rebuild >>>again. >>> >>>What is going on? >> >>I had this a while ago, and the culprit was a corrupted >>HTML message >>from years back. Took me a while to find that one. I >>ended up deleting >>3-4 suspicious ones. After that, all has been well. > > Spam & Virus Protection By Barracuda Networks
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Well said, Rick, as I linger here on my webmail *barf*. Victor On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:19:25 + "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't help thinking that maybe PM should be able to >deal with such > corrupted HTML messages more gracefully than this. >Victor alone would > seem to have lost 24 hours or more of time to this >problem. Certain > things need to be acknowledged I think: > > 1. Whatever our feelings about them, we all receive HTML >messages. > 2. HTML messages can become corrupted. > 3. By the very nature of email, many people will have >mail databases > dating back several years. > 4. If one corrupt email can throw PowerMail completely >for a loop, then > there *must* be a better way of assisting the user to >locate that > problem message than simply relying on them to sift >through 30... 50... > 100,000 messages trying to find the one. Assuming that >they can get PM > to open in order to do it of course. > > Even if it's just a crash log entry recording where the >offending > message is in the database, that would be some help. > > Rick > > -- > G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 >pane mode > > Shark Attack: A Design Studio > > > -- > Original message: > Received from A-NO-NE Music on 20/3/06 at 16:55 > >>Victor Orly / 2006/03/20 / 11:16 AM wrote: >> >>>Now, three time over the last two days, it wants to >>>rebuild the sort inces - which takes 12+ HOURS. When it >>>is >>>done, it just closes right away and wants to rebuild >>>again. >>> >>>What is going on? >> >>I had this a while ago, and the culprit was a corrupted >>HTML message >>from years back. Took me a while to find that one. I >>ended up deleting >>3-4 suspicious ones. After that, all has been well. > > Spam & Virus Protection By Barracuda Networks
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Yeah,, but how do you open up Powermail to kill this message, when the application doesn't open (and just wants to rebuild the sort indices over and over again? Victor On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0500 "A-NO-NE Music" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Victor Orly / 2006/03/20 / 11:16 AM wrote: > >>Now, three time over the last two days, it wants to >>rebuild the sort inces - which takes 12+ HOURS. When it >>is >>done, it just closes right away and wants to rebuild >>again. >> >>What is going on? > > I had this a while ago, and the culprit was a corrupted >HTML message > from years back. Took me a while to find that one. I >ended up deleting > 3-4 suspicious ones. After that, all has been well. > > -- > > - Hiro > > [PROTECTED] > <[PROTECTED]> <[PROTECTED]> > > > Spam & Virus Protection By Barracuda Networks
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
I can't help thinking that maybe PM should be able to deal with such corrupted HTML messages more gracefully than this. Victor alone would seem to have lost 24 hours or more of time to this problem. Certain things need to be acknowledged I think: 1. Whatever our feelings about them, we all receive HTML messages. 2. HTML messages can become corrupted. 3. By the very nature of email, many people will have mail databases dating back several years. 4. If one corrupt email can throw PowerMail completely for a loop, then there *must* be a better way of assisting the user to locate that problem message than simply relying on them to sift through 30... 50... 100,000 messages trying to find the one. Assuming that they can get PM to open in order to do it of course. Even if it's just a crash log entry recording where the offending message is in the database, that would be some help. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio -- Original message: Received from A-NO-NE Music on 20/3/06 at 16:55 >Victor Orly / 2006/03/20 / 11:16 AM wrote: > >>Now, three time over the last two days, it wants to >>rebuild the sort inces - which takes 12+ HOURS. When it is >>done, it just closes right away and wants to rebuild >>again. >> >>What is going on? > >I had this a while ago, and the culprit was a corrupted HTML message >from years back. Took me a while to find that one. I ended up deleting >3-4 suspicious ones. After that, all has been well.
Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 "Rebuilding Sort Indices"
Victor Orly / 2006/03/20 / 11:16 AM wrote: >Now, three time over the last two days, it wants to >rebuild the sort inces - which takes 12+ HOURS. When it is >done, it just closes right away and wants to rebuild >again. > >What is going on? I had this a while ago, and the culprit was a corrupted HTML message from years back. Took me a while to find that one. I ended up deleting 3-4 suspicious ones. After that, all has been well. -- - Hiro [PROTECTED] <[PROTECTED]> <[PROTECTED]>
