Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Yes I did, and no luck. gGord -Original Message- From: Nick Gawronski Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 3:40 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Hi, Did you try reinstalling the original drivers that you installed with lion as this is what I did to my external esata card and it worked just fine? Nick Gawronski On 9/5/2012 1:05 AM, Gordon Kent wrote: Hey, I must have spent over an hour today trying to pay my cable bill online, which I have done before. Some of the alt text labels must be in the wrong place or something because I can't get the pay now button to work and I can't get the setup autopay window to come up. I called comcast and finally got to speak to a woman who sounded like shews was from or in India. ANyway, she really didn't make any commitment whatsoever, other than to say that my bank should be able to set up autopay for me. If something as main stream as a large cable company's website can't be accessible, it makes me even more apreciative of what digidesign and cakewalk have done in our behalf. Now I will say that I'm seriously thinking of rolling back to the previous mac OS until things get straightened out. I can't even use my alesis master control surface which really did work well before. It doesn't even show up any more. Gord -Original Message- From: Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:32 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML HI J. R., Let me say something at the outset that you should keep in mind as you read on. I will say things that you and others will probably quarrel with so I'm saying this up front so that you understand my personal position. I think everything on earth should be accessible to blind people. I think everything in the world should be accessible to wheelchair users. Universal access is something that affects us all at one time or another. Believe me when I say that I experience this keenly and on a daily basis. Now, that said, we need to accept the fact that accessibility is not anywhere near a priority for Avid. Like it or not. Historically, we've been fortunate to have their cooperation in making Pro Tools accessible, at least in part, not only once but twice. No matter how much work is put into Pro Tools to make it accessible, guess what? It'll never be fully accessible because there will always be a demand by someone that something needs to be changed to make it easier for a blind person to use. Further, no matter how accessible Pro Tools itself is, there will always, always, always be obstacles in the world of audio technology as it concerns blind users. Before you hit me with a Kurzweilian Singularity glimmer of hope, I'm referring to our lifetime and not 60 years from now. No matter how much progress there is, we will always encounter an obstacle somewhere along the line because we lack a significant, dare I say, the most significant sense there is and that is sight. There will always be some area of Pro Tools that will remain inaccessible for one reason or another. The video timeline, for example, will simply never be usable by a blind person. Well, what if I want to use it? Tough. That's the long and the short of it. One might argue that there must be some work-around to use the video timeline, some alternative way, some way to incorporate keyboard shortcuts, surely there must be some way to make it accessible. Yes, it's possible but not at all likely, not in the least bit. Why? That should be obvious but I'll say it anyway: blind users are a fraction of a fraction of the user base. Yes, there are dozens of users but, I assure you, it's the smallest portion of the user base. Further, the most important clients to Avid are the people in the broadcast industry. There's no question about that. They'll say it themselves. Music production isn't even a priority. If you doubt that, look at what's going on with their dropping M-Audio, AIR, etc. There are clear priorities. As for students testing Pro Tools, I don't know how to put this in any other way but, Pro Tools was never developed to be a simple program to use. It's clearly not GarageBand. It was designed as an environment for audio professionals. beta testing by less experienced users is, I'm sure, not at all what Avid has in mind. You might think it's a good idea but I assure you, that's not what Avid is looking for. Why stop at college students? Why not have high school students beta test? Hey, why not have kids beta test? Surely, it'll make for a more user-friendly experience, right? Hmm, I'm afraid not. All that said, Avid has a vehicle for product feedback. They always have. All users can make suggestions. Beta testing is something entirely different. Hopefully, that explains that. You might think I have a negative attitude about the whole thing but I certainly don't. I'm optimistic. Otherwise, I wouldn't be flying out to San francisco next month to meet
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Hi, Did you try reinstalling the original drivers that you installed with lion as this is what I did to my external esata card and it worked just fine? Nick Gawronski On 9/5/2012 1:05 AM, Gordon Kent wrote: Hey, I must have spent over an hour today trying to pay my cable bill online, which I have done before. Some of the alt text labels must be in the wrong place or something because I can't get the pay now button to work and I can't get the setup autopay window to come up. I called comcast and finally got to speak to a woman who sounded like shews was from or in India. ANyway, she really didn't make any commitment whatsoever, other than to say that my bank should be able to set up autopay for me. If something as main stream as a large cable company's website can't be accessible, it makes me even more apreciative of what digidesign and cakewalk have done in our behalf. Now I will say that I'm seriously thinking of rolling back to the previous mac OS until things get straightened out. I can't even use my alesis master control surface which really did work well before. It doesn't even show up any more. Gord -Original Message- From: Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:32 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML HI J. R., Let me say something at the outset that you should keep in mind as you read on. I will say things that you and others will probably quarrel with so I'm saying this up front so that you understand my personal position. I think everything on earth should be accessible to blind people. I think everything in the world should be accessible to wheelchair users. Universal access is something that affects us all at one time or another. Believe me when I say that I experience this keenly and on a daily basis. Now, that said, we need to accept the fact that accessibility is not anywhere near a priority for Avid. Like it or not. Historically, we've been fortunate to have their cooperation in making Pro Tools accessible, at least in part, not only once but twice. No matter how much work is put into Pro Tools to make it accessible, guess what? It'll never be fully accessible because there will always be a demand by someone that something needs to be changed to make it easier for a blind person to use. Further, no matter how accessible Pro Tools itself is, there will always, always, always be obstacles in the world of audio technology as it concerns blind users. Before you hit me with a Kurzweilian Singularity glimmer of hope, I'm referring to our lifetime and not 60 years from now. No matter how much progress there is, we will always encounter an obstacle somewhere along the line because we lack a significant, dare I say, the most significant sense there is and that is sight. There will always be some area of Pro Tools that will remain inaccessible for one reason or another. The video timeline, for example, will simply never be usable by a blind person. Well, what if I want to use it? Tough. That's the long and the short of it. One might argue that there must be some work-around to use the video timeline, some alternative way, some way to incorporate keyboard shortcuts, surely there must be some way to make it accessible. Yes, it's possible but not at all likely, not in the least bit. Why? That should be obvious but I'll say it anyway: blind users are a fraction of a fraction of the user base. Yes, there are dozens of users but, I assure you, it's the smallest portion of the user base. Further, the most important clients to Avid are the people in the broadcast industry. There's no question about that. They'll say it themselves. Music production isn't even a priority. If you doubt that, look at what's going on with their dropping M-Audio, AIR, etc. There are clear priorities. As for students testing Pro Tools, I don't know how to put this in any other way but, Pro Tools was never developed to be a simple program to use. It's clearly not GarageBand. It was designed as an environment for audio professionals. beta testing by less experienced users is, I'm sure, not at all what Avid has in mind. You might think it's a good idea but I assure you, that's not what Avid is looking for. Why stop at college students? Why not have high school students beta test? Hey, why not have kids beta test? Surely, it'll make for a more user-friendly experience, right? Hmm, I'm afraid not. All that said, Avid has a vehicle for product feedback. They always have. All users can make suggestions. Beta testing is something entirely different. Hopefully, that explains that. You might think I have a negative attitude about the whole thing but I certainly don't. I'm optimistic. Otherwise, I wouldn't be flying out to San francisco next month to meet with folks at Avid. To be clear, while I'm optimistic, I also have a realistic outlook on the situation and I know that there's a long road ahead. There always will be, always. Any successful audio
RE: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Slau, Let me drop some of the interveneing stuff and continue. You can see my comments mixed in below. I gather that the people you will speak with aren't the ones who could provide any assistance on the testing issue at all. If they did have a suggestion as to a course to pursue in the testing realm I'd be much appreciative of the information. Thanks for the continued out reach to Avid on your part. Best, J. R. -Original Message- From: Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:32 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML HI J. R., Let me say something at the outset that you should keep in mind as you read on. I will say things that you and others will probably quarrel with so I'm saying this up front so that you understand my personal position. I think everything on earth should be accessible to blind people. I think everything in the world should be accessible to wheelchair users. Universal access is something that affects us all at one time or another. Believe me when I say that I experience this keenly and on a daily basis. Now, that said, we need to accept the fact that accessibility is not anywhere near a priority for Avid. Like it or not. Historically, we've been fortunate to have their cooperation in making Pro Tools accessible, at least in part, not only once but twice. No matter how much work is put into Pro Tools to make it accessible, guess what? It'll never be fully accessible because there will always be a demand by someone that something needs to be changed to make it easier for a blind person to use. Further, no matter how accessible Pro Tools itself is, there will always, always, always be obstacles in the world of audio technology as it concerns blind users. Before you hit me with a Kurzweilian Singularity glimmer of hope, I'm referring to our lifetime and not 60 years from now. No matter how much progress there is, we will always encounter an obstacle somewhere along the line because we lack a significant, dare I say, the most significant sense there is and that is sight. There will always be some area of Pro Tools that will remain inaccessible for one reason or another. The video timeline, for example, will simply never be usable by a blind person. Well, what if I want to use it? Tough. That's the long and the short of it. One might argue that there must be some work-around to use the video timeline, some alternative way, some way to incorporate keyboard shortcuts, surely there must be some way to make it accessible. Yes, it's possible but not at all likely, not in the least bit. Why? That should be obvious but I'll say it anyway: blind users are a fraction of a fraction of the user base. Yes, there are dozens of users but, I assure you, it's the smallest portion of the user base. Further, the most important clients to Avid are the people in the broadcast industry. There's no question about that. They'll say it themselves. Music production isn't even a priority. If you doubt that, look at what's going on with their dropping M-Audio, AIR, etc. There are clear priorities. As for students testing Pro Tools, I don't know how to put this in any other way but, Pro Tools was never developed to be a simple program to use. It's clearly not GarageBand. It was designed as an environment for audio professionals. beta testing by less experienced users is, I'm sure, not at all what Avid has in mind. You might think it's a good idea but I assure you, that's not what Avid is looking for. Why stop at college students? Why not have high school students beta test? Hey, why not have kids beta test? Surely, it'll make for a more user-friendly experience, right? Hmm, I'm afraid not. [J. R. W.] Now, you are getting a bit carried away. LOL This was an officially sponsored class from a Avid training partner. It also just happens to be part of the university course list. I spoke with the PT people personally and they were the ones that suggested that I might want to talk with the beta testing group. They gave me an email address to which I sent a message and explained my position and why I felt I might be a reasonable fit. I fully explained to them that I was new to PT but had done A LOT of beta testing in the past. I didn't even receive the courtesy of a return email saying go to hell' thank you for your interest or anything. That to me shows a severe lack of customer focus on someones part. I was perfectly happy to live with whatever they said in a response. I figured I could live with it because while I'm not a Professional like others on this list I have been around the world a bit and there was this list of professional folks who shared my desire to do things audio related. As I said in the beginning, this is not kicking anyone on this list but maybe venting a bit of frustration with the maker of the product. All that said, Avid has a vehicle for product feedback. They always have. All users can make suggestions
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Pro Tools beta is like fight club. Nobody talks about pro tools beta the same way nobody talks about fight club. And with that, I'm gonna shut up before someone decides to take me deep see fishing with some shackles and brick boots. Lol. Kevin On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote: Chris, Avid uses a pool of beta testers who have been using Pro Tools for years and years and who would generally be considered experts in the use of the program. On Aug 31, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: Slau, I didn't mean specifically beta testing for Voiceover performance, I meant more just for beta testing P T in general. Chris. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn slauhala...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Chris, It's not clear yet but there's probably something about how ML is reading the window class of the given controls. Again, until it's certified, we don't know what changes will take place in Pro Tools that might affect how things are read. We'll cross that bridge soon. To answer your other question, Avid is not looking for beta testers for VoiceOver. Slau On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: What I'd like to know is exactly what in the first place, supported or not would cause it not to read in one O S, while it does in another. Is it how Voiceover actually handles rendering things? I guess what I mean is, is it most likely an issue of Voiceover not reading correctly, or is it more an issue of something changed in ml that caused those meters through the PT side of things to need to be recoded. Maybe kind of a stupid question, and being no one on here probably has access to the O S X source code nor the PT source code, I'm sure probably that none of us really exactly know. or... do we?... Kind a makes you wonder if Avid is looking for Beta testers, who could from a blind perspective run the alphas of P T... obviously not on a production machine, and be able to test things. Chris.
RE: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Hmmm. Maybe that is why some things don't fall to the top of the list? If you are an expert you find ways around the problems so you can get your work done. It's like when I use a screen reader. If I have used it for a long time I find myself not reporting some things as bugs that others who are newer to the product find very annoying. Is there rightness on both sides of the question? Or course there is. Fortunately, there is this list where we as NON-EXPERTS can pick the brains of those who have used the product for many years and usually benefit from the workarounds they have found. So I will be quiet for now before Kefin calls me on the phone and tells me to be quiet and stop making trouble. LOL Back on my head in the homework pile. J. R. -Original Message- From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Reeves Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 2:18 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Pro Tools beta is like fight club. Nobody talks about pro tools beta the same way nobody talks about fight club. And with that, I'm gonna shut up before someone decides to take me deep see fishing with some shackles and brick boots. Lol. Kevin On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote: Chris, Avid uses a pool of beta testers who have been using Pro Tools for years and years and who would generally be considered experts in the use of the program. On Aug 31, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: Slau, I didn't mean specifically beta testing for Voiceover performance, I meant more just for beta testing P T in general. Chris. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn slauhala...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Chris, It's not clear yet but there's probably something about how ML is reading the window class of the given controls. Again, until it's certified, we don't know what changes will take place in Pro Tools that might affect how things are read. We'll cross that bridge soon. To answer your other question, Avid is not looking for beta testers for VoiceOver. Slau On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: What I'd like to know is exactly what in the first place, supported or not would cause it not to read in one O S, while it does in another. Is it how Voiceover actually handles rendering things? I guess what I mean is, is it most likely an issue of Voiceover not reading correctly, or is it more an issue of something changed in ml that caused those meters through the PT side of things to need to be recoded. Maybe kind of a stupid question, and being no one on here probably has access to the O S X source code nor the PT source code, I'm sure probably that none of us really exactly know. or... do we?... Kind a makes you wonder if Avid is looking for Beta testers, who could from a blind perspective run the alphas of P T... obviously not on a production machine, and be able to test things. Chris.
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: Hmmm. Maybe that is why some things don't fall to the top of the list? J. R., what specifically are you referring to that hasn't fallen to the top of the list? slau
RE: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Specifically I'm thinking of items that are in their course ware and can't be done by visually impaired users. This is not a kick at the few people I know who test with PT. I'm pointing the finger at Avid specifically. I feel that their beta program goes out of its way to exclude some valuable input from students in particular who are learning the system and would have some input that might help them in the realm of usability. Working through some of the exercises in the course I found that they loved to have you work with some of the really showy items, elastic audio, warping audio, pencil fitting, etc. These items are completely inaccessible and I believe there should be some way that we as visually impaired users of the product can do the equivalent things. Having said all that I also wonder if they might not benefit from some input on the testing program so the tests might be more accessible. I have an instructor who is willing to proctor the tests for me and make the accommodations necessary to take them but he will have to do some significant adjusting of the tests in a few places. Unfortunately he is only able to do the testing for PT101 and PT110. If I were to want to proceed further I'm not sure what could be done. As Mark put it, if you were to go to a studio and have a certification they would be much more willing to allow you to do things yourself. Also, having that cert could assist you in getting a potential job even as an entry level. For example, if I were to call you and say I would like to use your facilities to do a project and had that certification you'd feel much more comfortable in allowing me to do it. It would make you feel confident in my ability to not damage your facility. I would really like to see the certification process work for those who are visually impaired as well as the rest of the world. If I had the money to do so I'd have Kevin or someone like him fly here and go through the labs together working with Mark to adjust where necessary to make a final class that would produce a successful testing experience. I believe that at that point the class could be taken back to Avid and they would be willing to incorporate it in their curriculum. I'm trying to write quickly so I hope it makes some sense. J. R. -Original Message- From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:29 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: Hmmm. Maybe that is why some things don't fall to the top of the list? J. R., what specifically are you referring to that hasn't fallen to the top of the list? slau
RE: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
One other thing. I made it through the labs but there were places where Mark had to just say let me describe what I'm doing and click it since there isn't a way I can see to help you do it independently. He personally really understands since he has to use screen magnification to work with the product himself. J. R. -Original Message- From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:29 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: Hmmm. Maybe that is why some things don't fall to the top of the list? J. R., what specifically are you referring to that hasn't fallen to the top of the list? slau
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
and engineers have faced for decades and the wheels will continue to turn. Cheers, Slau On Sep 4, 2012, at 8:31 PM, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: Specifically I'm thinking of items that are in their course ware and can't be done by visually impaired users. This is not a kick at the few people I know who test with PT. I'm pointing the finger at Avid specifically. I feel that their beta program goes out of its way to exclude some valuable input from students in particular who are learning the system and would have some input that might help them in the realm of usability. Working through some of the exercises in the course I found that they loved to have you work with some of the really showy items, elastic audio, warping audio, pencil fitting, etc. These items are completely inaccessible and I believe there should be some way that we as visually impaired users of the product can do the equivalent things. Having said all that I also wonder if they might not benefit from some input on the testing program so the tests might be more accessible. I have an instructor who is willing to proctor the tests for me and make the accommodations necessary to take them but he will have to do some significant adjusting of the tests in a few places. Unfortunately he is only able to do the testing for PT101 and PT110. If I were to want to proceed further I'm not sure what could be done. As Mark put it, if you were to go to a studio and have a certification they would be much more willing to allow you to do things yourself. Also, having that cert could assist you in getting a potential job even as an entry level. For example, if I were to call you and say I would like to use your facilities to do a project and had that certification you'd feel much more comfortable in allowing me to do it. It would make you feel confident in my ability to not damage your facility. I would really like to see the certification process work for those who are visually impaired as well as the rest of the world. If I had the money to do so I'd have Kevin or someone like him fly here and go through the labs together working with Mark to adjust where necessary to make a final class that would produce a successful testing experience. I believe that at that point the class could be taken back to Avid and they would be willing to incorporate it in their curriculum. I'm trying to write quickly so I hope it makes some sense. J. R. -Original Message- From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:29 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:09 PM, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: Hmmm. Maybe that is why some things don't fall to the top of the list? J. R., what specifically are you referring to that hasn't fallen to the top of the list? slau
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Slau, I didn't mean specifically beta testing for Voiceover performance, I meant more just for beta testing P T in general. Chris. - Original Message - From: Slau Halatyn slauhala...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Chris, It's not clear yet but there's probably something about how ML is reading the window class of the given controls. Again, until it's certified, we don't know what changes will take place in Pro Tools that might affect how things are read. We'll cross that bridge soon. To answer your other question, Avid is not looking for beta testers for VoiceOver. Slau On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: What I'd like to know is exactly what in the first place, supported or not would cause it not to read in one O S, while it does in another. Is it how Voiceover actually handles rendering things? I guess what I mean is, is it most likely an issue of Voiceover not reading correctly, or is it more an issue of something changed in ml that caused those meters through the PT side of things to need to be recoded. Maybe kind of a stupid question, and being no one on here probably has access to the O S X source code nor the PT source code, I'm sure probably that none of us really exactly know. or... do we?... Kind a makes you wonder if Avid is looking for Beta testers, who could from a blind perspective run the alphas of P T... obviously not on a production machine, and be able to test things. Chris.
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Nope, afraid not, I just tried it now. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com On 30 Aug 2012, at 16:24, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Eak, that's a biggy! Does resetting them with Option-C make any difference? Highly doubt it, but best to check. Scott On 8/30/12, Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
I have the same problem on my machine running PT 10.01 on ML 10.8.1. Also, VO doesn't tell me if record, solo, and mute are on or not. Good thing to have PT with Lion partition.
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
I would not recommend using Mountain Lion on a recording/mixing machine. In my experience, upgrading your OS before it is tested and certified by every single software vendor that your studio is dependent upon has never been a safe move. I have many friends who are not recording engineers that have trouble with simple usage of their go-to applications with ML, and plugin makers and hardware drivers usually take a bit to catch up with Apple's changes. I just started using Lion. John Clements On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Chi Kim chigook...@hotmail.com wrote: I have the same problem on my machine running PT 10.01 on ML 10.8.1. Also, VO doesn't tell me if record, solo, and mute are on or not. Good thing to have PT with Lion partition. -- John Clements jclement...@gmail.com 401-835-6050
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
You're right, but there was a big thread on all of this. I meerly resurrected it so Slau can make a lovely list to show our friends at Avid. On the bright side though, when interacting with Plugin parameters, you can now hear the correct value that you're changing too, rather than the previous one LOL, and everything is over all smoother. Just looking forward to Avid sorting their stuff out. Cheers, On 30 Aug 2012, at 21:41, J Clements wrote: I would not recommend using Mountain Lion on a recording/mixing machine. In my experience, upgrading your OS before it is tested and certified by every single software vendor that your studio is dependent upon has never been a safe move. I have many friends who are not recording engineers that have trouble with simple usage of their go-to applications with ML, and plugin makers and hardware drivers usually take a bit to catch up with Apple's changes. I just started using Lion. John Clements On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Chi Kim chigook...@hotmail.com wrote: I have the same problem on my machine running PT 10.01 on ML 10.8.1. Also, VO doesn't tell me if record, solo, and mute are on or not. Good thing to have PT with Lion partition. -- John Clements jclement...@gmail.com 401-835-6050
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
On Aug 30, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Chris Norman wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Chris, The meters do read in Snow Leopard and, I suspect, in Lion. Let's see what happens when Pro Tools supports Mountain Lion. Slau Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Confirmed, they defo did read in Lion. On 8/30/12, Slau Halatyn slauhala...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 30, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Chris Norman wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Chris, The meters do read in Snow Leopard and, I suspect, in Lion. Let's see what happens when Pro Tools supports Mountain Lion. Slau Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Yeah, they do, because I got Lion on the other third of this MacBook Pro LOL. On 31 Aug 2012, at 00:46, Scott Chesworth wrote: Confirmed, they defo did read in Lion. On 8/30/12, Slau Halatyn slauhala...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 30, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Chris Norman wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Chris, The meters do read in Snow Leopard and, I suspect, in Lion. Let's see what happens when Pro Tools supports Mountain Lion. Slau Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Yup? It's not just you. That's the main reason I downgraded actually. The other issues I could tollerate, but that? was a deal breaker. Chris. - Original Message - From: Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com To: Pro Tools Access ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Speaking of meters, this is gonna sound like a really really dumb question, but why is it never a good idea to read the meters after putting a compressor on the insert of a vocal track? Someone said if you do that, it may read in the -12 to -10DB range, but actually still be clipoping, and aside audibly hearing it, you'd never know. Could someone elaborate on what he meant by that? I thought those meters show your input level. What did I miss? Chris. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Eak, that's a biggy! Does resetting them with Option-C make any difference? Highly doubt it, but best to check. Scott On 8/30/12, Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Option C? resets the meters? I thought you just hit vo+space on 'em, or, actually can you do either. Chris. - Original Message - From: Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Nope, afraid not, I just tried it now. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com On 30 Aug 2012, at 16:24, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Eak, that's a biggy! Does resetting them with Option-C make any difference? Highly doubt it, but best to check. Scott On 8/30/12, Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
What I'd like to know is exactly what in the first place, supported or not would cause it not to read in one O S, while it does in another. Is it how Voiceover actually handles rendering things? I guess what I mean is, is it most likely an issue of Voiceover not reading correctly, or is it more an issue of something changed in ml that caused those meters through the PT side of things to need to be recoded. Maybe kind of a stupid question, and being no one on here probably has access to the O S X source code nor the PT source code, I'm sure probably that none of us really exactly know. or... do we?... Kind a makes you wonder if Avid is looking for Beta testers, who could from a blind perspective run the alphas of P T... obviously not on a production machine, and be able to test things. Chris.
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
I'm not a PT expert, butI'm guessing if a track is record enabled then it shows the input meter, if it isn't, it probably shows the track output meter, which would come after the compresser. So the compresser could be reducing the level of the track output to that minus 12 or whatever, but the signal could still be clipping hitting the front end of the compresser. That shouldn't matter though as long as you're careful with your levels when recording in the first place. I'm not positive, but it could get more complicated if you record with a compresser on your track, as that might disguise clipping in the same way if showing track output meter rather than a track input meter. Hopefully you get what I mean. A track input meter tells the truth about the raw audio data that's actually being captured, where an output meter is subject to whatever processing you may have on the track. HTH Brian. -- From: Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:27 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Speaking of meters, this is gonna sound like a really really dumb question, but why is it never a good idea to read the meters after putting a compressor on the insert of a vocal track? Someone said if you do that, it may read in the -12 to -10DB range, but actually still be clipoping, and aside audibly hearing it, you'd never know. Could someone elaborate on what he meant by that? I thought those meters show your input level. What did I miss? Chris. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Eak, that's a biggy! Does resetting them with Option-C make any difference? Highly doubt it, but best to check. Scott On 8/30/12, Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Brian, Yes, I do get it. That makes complete sense. Wow, it's amazing how much I've learned since I started last March using ProTools. I'll never forget when I first was posting on here asking you guies why my sound wasn't very bright. Now i understand about the need to read my meters, add compression, etc. So, if the track shows more than one meter, then why can we with vo only see one of 'em? And, is that the over all meter calculation, or is it reading the last one in the Hierarchy, only? Chris. - Original Message - From: Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML I've not actually tested it, but I think you're right Bryan. If you put your compressor on the track, it shows up a different meter to if you've nothing, even (I believe), if your meters are set to Pre fade in the options menu. Pre fade Chris, in case you don't know, bscially means whatever before your fader, so, in theory, the meter should read the same at 0 db as -70 db. HTH, On 31 Aug 2012, at 01:41, Brian Casey wrote: I'm not a PT expert, butI'm guessing if a track is record enabled then it shows the input meter, if it isn't, it probably shows the track output meter, which would come after the compresser. So the compresser could be reducing the level of the track output to that minus 12 or whatever, but the signal could still be clipping hitting the front end of the compresser. That shouldn't matter though as long as you're careful with your levels when recording in the first place. I'm not positive, but it could get more complicated if you record with a compresser on your track, as that might disguise clipping in the same way if showing track output meter rather than a track input meter. Hopefully you get what I mean. A track input meter tells the truth about the raw audio data that's actually being captured, where an output meter is subject to whatever processing you may have on the track. HTH Brian. -- From: Christopher-Mark Gilland clgillan...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:27 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Speaking of meters, this is gonna sound like a really really dumb question, but why is it never a good idea to read the meters after putting a compressor on the insert of a vocal track? Someone said if you do that, it may read in the -12 to -10DB range, but actually still be clipoping, and aside audibly hearing it, you'd never know. Could someone elaborate on what he meant by that? I thought those meters show your input level. What did I miss? Chris. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML Eak, that's a biggy! Does resetting them with Option-C make any difference? Highly doubt it, but best to check. Scott On 8/30/12, Chris Norman chris.norm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi All, Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread to post this in, so my bad, but I found another problem with Pro Tools and OS X MountainLion which I thought Slau especially should be aware of as you're talking to Avid. The input meters aren't reading properly either. Whereas on Lion and (I imagine) SL, they used to tell you how close to clipping the signal is, now they just say Level Meter. Hope this helps, and sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman. chris.norm...@googlemail.com
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Chris, It's not clear yet but there's probably something about how ML is reading the window class of the given controls. Again, until it's certified, we don't know what changes will take place in Pro Tools that might affect how things are read. We'll cross that bridge soon. To answer your other question, Avid is not looking for beta testers for VoiceOver. Slau On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: What I'd like to know is exactly what in the first place, supported or not would cause it not to read in one O S, while it does in another. Is it how Voiceover actually handles rendering things? I guess what I mean is, is it most likely an issue of Voiceover not reading correctly, or is it more an issue of something changed in ml that caused those meters through the PT side of things to need to be recoded. Maybe kind of a stupid question, and being no one on here probably has access to the O S X source code nor the PT source code, I'm sure probably that none of us really exactly know. or... do we?... Kind a makes you wonder if Avid is looking for Beta testers, who could from a blind perspective run the alphas of P T... obviously not on a production machine, and be able to test things. Chris.
Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML
Yeah, I'm really sorry I didn't do that. The state of many buttons, such as edit mode, tools, etc. is also not spoken any more. Gord -Original Message- From: Chi Kim Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 4:08 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another problem with Pro Tools and ML I have the same problem on my machine running PT 10.01 on ML 10.8.1. Also, VO doesn't tell me if record, solo, and mute are on or not. Good thing to have PT with Lion partition.
