subject:"Re\: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non\-Technical End User Applications"


On 6/24/13 7:00 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:

On 24 June 2013 14:31, Kingsley Idehen  wrote:

On 6/24/13 2:14 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:

Hello Kingsley Idehen,

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:32:00PM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed
to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things.

You appear to be arguing against the simple useful practice of
communally collecting information.


I am not.


Just because we can scatter
information around the Web and subsequently aggregate it, doesn't mean
that such fragmentation is always productive.


The simple use of communally collecting information can be varied. To 
date, only one pattern has been explored with the same results. I am 
simply suggestion an additional approach. I am never one to propose 
"silver bullets" since at the core of most of my suggestions lies a 
preference for multiplicity, flexibility, and choice.




  I don't see anyone
arguing that the only option is to monolithically centralise
everything forever; just that a communal effort on cataloguing things
might be worth the time.


It has been worth some time, but it always becomes stale. I am 
suggesting we add other approaches that haven't been tried to the mix. 
If everyone simply describes their products, services, and platforms 
using Linked Data documents we will more than likely realizes that we 
can dog-food our way to solving an important and thorny problem.








Google already demonstrates some of this, in the most obvious sense via its
search engine, and no so obvious via its crawling of Linked Data which then
makes its way Google Knowledge Graph and G+ etc..

-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation_needed


Google has been crawling DBpedia for years (we do have the logs). I am 
sure you've seen the technical reports we produce re. DBpedia [1][2]. I 
am sure you know that cannot be a secret since we do publish HTML docs 
amongst other formats. It also has Linked Data published via Freebase 
which I posted a note about re. deconstruction of the obscured Linked 
Data URI [3].


You've sometimes said that all Web pages are already "Linked Data"
with boring link-types. Are you talking about something more RDFish in
this case?


Yes. I am saying, let's dog-food i.e., use the technology we are asking 
the world to adopt etc..




Dan



Links:

1. http://bit.ly/Vie2aB -- DBpedia 3.8 technical report.
2. http://bit.ly/RieuZg  -- older report.
3. http://bit.ly/LFt9al -- Deconstructing Google Knowledge Graph URIs 
(note: we'll have an updated unscrambler of these GKG URIs later this 
week via a new cartridge/wrapper).


--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Melvin Carvalho

On 25 June 2013 01:00, Dan Brickley  wrote:

> On 24 June 2013 14:31, Kingsley Idehen  wrote:
> > On 6/24/13 2:14 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Kingsley Idehen,
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:32:00PM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed
> >>> to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things.
>
> You appear to be arguing against the simple useful practice of
> communally collecting information. Just because we can scatter
> information around the Web and subsequently aggregate it, doesn't mean
> that such fragmentation is always productive.  I don't see anyone
> arguing that the only option is to monolithically centralise
> everything forever; just that a communal effort on cataloguing things
> might be worth the time.
>

Im unsure the argument is that central data stores are wrong.

However, Tim often says value-add of the web is unexpected reuse.  It's the
portability of linked data that helps to achieve this (one way to make data
portable is to use global names, ie URIs), so data gets used in interesting
ways (and interesting places) that may not have been originally anticipated.


>
>
>
>
> > Google already demonstrates some of this, in the most obvious sense via
> its
> > search engine, and no so obvious via its crawling of Linked Data which
> then
> > makes its way Google Knowledge Graph and G+ etc..
>
> -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation_needed
>
> You've sometimes said that all Web pages are already "Linked Data"
> with boring link-types. Are you talking about something more RDFish in
> this case?
>
> Dan
>
>

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Dan Brickley

On 24 June 2013 14:31, Kingsley Idehen  wrote:
> On 6/24/13 2:14 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
>>
>> Hello Kingsley Idehen,
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:32:00PM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>
>>> We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed
>>> to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things.

You appear to be arguing against the simple useful practice of
communally collecting information. Just because we can scatter
information around the Web and subsequently aggregate it, doesn't mean
that such fragmentation is always productive.  I don't see anyone
arguing that the only option is to monolithically centralise
everything forever; just that a communal effort on cataloguing things
might be worth the time.

> Google already demonstrates some of this, in the most obvious sense via its
> search engine, and no so obvious via its crawling of Linked Data which then
> makes its way Google Knowledge Graph and G+ etc..

-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citation_needed

You've sometimes said that all Web pages are already "Linked Data"
with boring link-types. Are you talking about something more RDFish in
this case?

Dan

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 11:05 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:

Hello Kingsley,

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:12:43AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

Sorry for PGP-signing my last couple of mails. I guess this is not good
practice on mailing lists.

I sign my emails using an X.509 certificate that includes a person URI
in its SAN slot :-)

Hmm... if your

  Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature";

is OK, my

  Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"

should be OK too.


Yes.


Or are there less problems with S/MIME for some reason ?


There shouldn't be. It might be that pkcs#7 signature attachments are 
pre-configured as a known or acceptable attachment format. I guess one 
for the W3C admins responsible for the infrastructure behind this list.




So I will keep signing my mails to the list until someone gives me a reason
not to.


Yes.



Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer




--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Michael Brunnbauer


Hello Kingsley,

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 10:12:43AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >Sorry for PGP-signing my last couple of mails. I guess this is not good
> >practice on mailing lists.
> I sign my emails using an X.509 certificate that includes a person URI 
> in its SAN slot :-)

Hmm... if your 

 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature";

is OK, my

 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature" 

should be OK too. Or are there less problems with S/MIME for some reason ?

So I will keep signing my mails to the list until someone gives me a reason
not to.

Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer

-- 
++  Michael Brunnbauer
++  netEstate GmbH
++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++  81379 München
++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
++  http://www.netestate.de/
++
++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel


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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 10:12 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
You were talking about serendipitous discovery without central 
repositories.


Yes I am. I've been talking about it for a long time [1]. 

Michael,

I forgot to add a link section.

[1] http://bit.ly/TWw4Ck -- about SDQ (Serendipitous Discovery Quotient) .

--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 9:12 AM, Antoine Isaac wrote:

On 6/24/13 2:44 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

On 6/24/13 6:23 AM, Antoine Isaac wrote:

Hi Dominic,

I agree with the relevance of the effort, and wouldn't argue against 
centralizing. Not everyone will have the resource to search in a 
decentralized fashion...


What worries me a bit is how to learn lessons for the past. As you 
(or someone else) has pointed, there have been previous attempts in 
the past.

For example http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/
I don't find the cases there super-technical. And is it really from 
the past?

Looking closer, it seems still open for contribution:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/submit.html
Actually I have submitted a case there way after the SWEO group was 
closed:

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/Europeana/

Now why do these things seem obsolete to newcomers?
Just giving some account on what I've been involved in ...

[Note: I'm sorry if sometimes it's going to read a bit as a rant. 
It's not intended, just trying honestly to reflect the situation ;-) 
It's also not purely about your case/requirement situation, but I 
believe the issues are very similar!]


[Perspective from the case providers]
It's hard to know where to contribute. Existing don't often come in 
the places where case owners are, or it's hard to tell whether 
they're still open. And there's always a fresher initiative (like 
the one you're trying to launch) which seems a good place.
In fact I have actually created some updated description of the 
Europeana case

http://lodlam.net/2013/06/18/what-is-europeana-doing-with-sw-and-lod/
But because the LODLAM summit was a more actual forum for me 
recently, I've posted it there. And failed thinking of updating the 
SWEO list, mea maxima culpa.


[Perspective from the case gatherers] I have actually be involved as 
'initiator' of a couple of listing.

1. SKOS datasets (which are a kind of 'case for SKOS')
We started with a web page:
http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/data
but as the list was difficult to maintain we soon created a 
community-writable wiki:

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/SKOS/Datasets
As it seemed not modern enough, we've then encouraged people to use 
the same DataHub platform as the LOD cloud:

http://datahub.io/dataset?q=format-skos
But both are not very active. And they contain a lot of dead links...
2. Library-related datasets:
http://datahub.io/dataset?groups=lld
That list, started by the Library Linked Data W3C incubator, went 
alright as long as the group was running. Now I think the rate of 
new datasets is really small, even though I *know* there are many 
new ones.


Both as SKOS community manager and former LLD co-chair, I've tried 
to actively mail people to create descriptions of their stuff. But 
it requires time. Most often they assume *you* would do it!
And after a while, the supporters of such effort just have other 
things to do and can't afford very high level of commitment.


What should we do if we want to build on existing lists and not 
re-invent the wheel every six months or so?
Or is it worth sending a regular (monthly?) reminder to lists like 
public-lod, reminding everyone that these lists are available and 
open for contributions?

Create a list of lists, as Wikipedia does?

Best,

Antoine


Antoine,

As you've indicated, there have been many attempts at this over the 
years and they never take-off or meet their goals etc.. The problem 
is that a different approach is required. Basically, in this scenario 
lies a simple Linked Data publication usecase i.e., a problem that 
Linked Data addresses.


The steps:

1. use a Linked Data document to describe you product, service, 
platform, usecase

2. publish the document
3. make people aware of the document.

Crawlers will find your document. The content of the document will 
show up in search results.


The trouble is that confusion around Linked Data makes 1-3 harder 
than it needs to be. Then add RDF misconceptions to the mix, and it 
gets harder e.g., that you must have generally approved vocabulary 
before you get going, when in fact you don't.


People need to understand that "scribbling" is a natural Web pattern 
i.e., rough cuts are okay since improvements will be continuous.




Kingsley

Two practical objection to this otherwise interesting approach.

1. For that kind of survey, as for the rest, people want trust. it 
will have to be curated (I mean, besides people just putting little 
bits of uncontrolled/outdated data out there), or it will fly only 
when thee distributed descriptions are harvested and accessible 
through something like Google/schema.org.

Btw people also want visibility. You don't say anything about step 3...


You can sign documents. You can even sign claims. Even better, claims 
can be endorsed by others. These a issues naturally handled by Linked Data.


Verifiable Identity and Trust are areas where Linked Data shines.



2. It needs to be simple, as non-te

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 9:09 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:

Hello Kingsley,

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 08:31:11AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.

Deactivate lod.openlinksw.com - that's web 101.

And you have another example of a live instance comprised of 51 Billion+
triples atop which you can perform faceted-style navigation of entity
relationship graphs, that's available to any human, program (many
end-user, integrator, or developer tools), or crawler?

No I do not have another example but lod.openlinksw.com is a form of
centralization - one that is currently needed, I must add.


No it isn't. It is just one of (hopefully) many other services that 
provide you with a "data junction box" en route to discovering data all 
over the Web.
The URIs exposed by  resolve to entity 
description documents located from wherever they were published.


Linked Data enables us to build a distributed DataDNS system.



You were talking about serendipitous discovery without central repositories.


Yes I am. I've been talking about it for a long time [1].


How should I guess that you meant search engines and aggregators - which are
central repositories ?


They are all simply puzzle-pieces in a massive game of jigsaw puzzles.



So how do I get the list Dominic tries to compile from lod.openlinksw.com or
some other search engine ? Feel free to create a SPARQL query for anyone to
reuse in the future.


I need to look at what he seeks. That said, even if I constructed a 
SPARQL protocol URL, the net effect is that if I share said URL anyone 
has a starting point from this to drill-down further.


Later this week (or next, latest) we will share a number of detailed 
case studies (live examples) showcasing how Linked Data is used to solve 
a various problems that aid discovery on conventional search engines 
while also laying foundation for the next tier of semantically enhanced 
search engines. We will cover the following areas:


1. product catalogs
2. product offers
3. integration with Google snippets
4. shopping systems (shops and shopcarts)
5. product features and benefits.

Everything will be based on 5-Star Linked Data. All URIs will resolve to 
descriptions of their Referents.


If we dog-food Linked Data we will actually get around many of the 
tiresome issues that have repeatedly tripped up many adopters over the 
years.


Sorry for PGP-signing my last couple of mails. I guess this is not good
practice on mailing lists.


I sign my emails using an X.509 certificate that includes a person URI 
in its SAN slot :-)



Kingsley


Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer




--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Gannon Dick

"Spell Checkers", because there are some jobs Web Visionaries just won't do.

Unpaid volunteers have a plan for World Domination and it includes nice 
penmanship too :-) 



Reusing patterns does make it easier for tools to aggregate and present 
data. The perfect might be the enemy of the good, but sometimes a little 
effort to do things consistently is good.

Dave

[1] http://dir.w3.org/

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Dave Reynolds


On 24/06/13 13:44, Kingsley Idehen wrote:


As you've indicated, there have been many attempts at this over the
years and they never take-off or meet their goals etc.. The problem is
that a different approach is required. Basically, in this scenario lies
a simple Linked Data publication usecase i.e., a problem that Linked
Data addresses.

The steps:

1. use a Linked Data document to describe you product, service,
platform, usecase
2. publish the document
3. make people aware of the document.

Crawlers will find your document. The content of the document will show
up in search results.


There is, of course, the W3C community directory [1] which works exactly 
that way. It has "project" rather than "usecase", and might need some 
extensions to support the fields that Dominic was suggesting. But it 
does provide a form based way to generate the initial RDF for you to 
publish, does the crawling and they provides a UI over the crawl.



The trouble is ...


[complaints snipped]


People need to understand that "scribbling" is a natural Web pattern
i.e., rough cuts are okay since improvements will be continuous.


Reusing patterns does make it easier for tools to aggregate and present 
data. The perfect might be the enemy of the good, but sometimes a little 
effort to do things consistently is good.


Dave

[1] http://dir.w3.org/

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Antoine Isaac


On 6/24/13 2:44 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

On 6/24/13 6:23 AM, Antoine Isaac wrote:

Hi Dominic,

I agree with the relevance of the effort, and wouldn't argue against 
centralizing. Not everyone will have the resource to search in a decentralized 
fashion...

What worries me a bit is how to learn lessons for the past. As you (or someone 
else) has pointed, there have been previous attempts in the past.
For example http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/
I don't find the cases there super-technical. And is it really from the past?
Looking closer, it seems still open for contribution:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/submit.html
Actually I have submitted a case there way after the SWEO group was closed:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/Europeana/

Now why do these things seem obsolete to newcomers?
Just giving some account on what I've been involved in ...

[Note: I'm sorry if sometimes it's going to read a bit as a rant. It's not 
intended, just trying honestly to reflect the situation ;-) It's also not 
purely about your case/requirement situation, but I believe the issues are very 
similar!]

[Perspective from the case providers]
It's hard to know where to contribute. Existing don't often come in the places 
where case owners are, or it's hard to tell whether they're still open. And 
there's always a fresher initiative (like the one you're trying to launch) 
which seems a good place.
In fact I have actually created some updated description of the Europeana case
http://lodlam.net/2013/06/18/what-is-europeana-doing-with-sw-and-lod/
But because the LODLAM summit was a more actual forum for me recently, I've 
posted it there. And failed thinking of updating the SWEO list, mea maxima 
culpa.

[Perspective from the case gatherers] I have actually be involved as 
'initiator' of a couple of listing.
1. SKOS datasets (which are a kind of 'case for SKOS')
We started with a web page:
http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/data
but as the list was difficult to maintain we soon created a community-writable 
wiki:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/SKOS/Datasets
As it seemed not modern enough, we've then encouraged people to use the same 
DataHub platform as the LOD cloud:
http://datahub.io/dataset?q=format-skos
But both are not very active. And they contain a lot of dead links...
2. Library-related datasets:
http://datahub.io/dataset?groups=lld
That list, started by the Library Linked Data W3C incubator, went alright as 
long as the group was running. Now I think the rate of new datasets is really 
small, even though I *know* there are many new ones.

Both as SKOS community manager and former LLD co-chair, I've tried to actively 
mail people to create descriptions of their stuff. But it requires time. Most 
often they assume *you* would do it!
And after a while, the supporters of such effort just have other things to do 
and can't afford very high level of commitment.

What should we do if we want to build on existing lists and not re-invent the 
wheel every six months or so?
Or is it worth sending a regular (monthly?) reminder to lists like public-lod, 
reminding everyone that these lists are available and open for contributions?
Create a list of lists, as Wikipedia does?

Best,

Antoine


Antoine,

As you've indicated, there have been many attempts at this over the years and 
they never take-off or meet their goals etc.. The problem is that a different 
approach is required. Basically, in this scenario lies a simple Linked Data 
publication usecase i.e., a problem that Linked Data addresses.

The steps:

1. use a Linked Data document to describe you product, service, platform, 
usecase
2. publish the document
3. make people aware of the document.

Crawlers will find your document. The content of the document will show up in 
search results.

The trouble is that confusion around Linked Data makes 1-3 harder than it needs 
to be. Then add RDF misconceptions to the mix, and it gets harder e.g., that 
you must have generally approved vocabulary before you get going, when in fact 
you don't.

People need to understand that "scribbling" is a natural Web pattern i.e., 
rough cuts are okay since improvements will be continuous.



Kingsley

Two practical objection to this otherwise interesting approach.

1. For that kind of survey, as for the rest, people want trust. it will have to 
be curated (I mean, besides people just putting little bits of 
uncontrolled/outdated data out there), or it will fly only when thee 
distributed descriptions are harvested and accessible through something like 
Google/schema.org.
Btw people also want visibility. You don't say anything about step 3...

2. It needs to be simple, as non-technical as possible. Step 1 is already too 
much. Consider LD consumers, who don't publish any LD, why would you ask them 
to publish an LD document?
Actually even in organization that publish LD having step 2 and 3 will take 
some effort. Not much, I agree, but it won't be part of the

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Michael Brunnbauer

Hello Kingsley,

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 08:31:11AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >>Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.
> >Deactivate lod.openlinksw.com - that's web 101.
> 
> And you have another example of a live instance comprised of 51 Billion+ 
> triples atop which you can perform faceted-style navigation of entity 
> relationship graphs, that's available to any human, program (many 
> end-user, integrator, or developer tools), or crawler?

No I do not have another example but lod.openlinksw.com is a form of 
centralization - one that is currently needed, I must add.

You were talking about serendipitous discovery without central repositories. 
How should I guess that you meant search engines and aggregators - which are 
central repositories ?

So how do I get the list Dominic tries to compile from lod.openlinksw.com or
some other search engine ? Feel free to create a SPARQL query for anyone to
reuse in the future.

Sorry for PGP-signing my last couple of mails. I guess this is not good 
practice on mailing lists.

Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer

-- 
++  Michael Brunnbauer
++  netEstate GmbH
++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++  81379 München
++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
++  http://www.netestate.de/
++
++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 6:23 AM, Antoine Isaac wrote:

Hi Dominic,

I agree with the relevance of the effort, and wouldn't argue against 
centralizing. Not everyone will have the resource to search in a 
decentralized fashion...


What worries me a bit is how to learn lessons for the past. As you (or 
someone else) has pointed, there have been previous attempts in the past.

For example http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/
I don't find the cases there super-technical. And is it really from 
the past?

Looking closer, it seems still open for contribution:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/submit.html
Actually I have submitted a case there way after the SWEO group was 
closed:

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/Europeana/

Now why do these things seem obsolete to newcomers?
Just giving some account on what I've been involved in ...

[Note: I'm sorry if sometimes it's going to read a bit as a rant. It's 
not intended, just trying honestly to reflect the situation ;-) It's 
also not purely about your case/requirement situation, but I believe 
the issues are very similar!]


[Perspective from the case providers]
It's hard to know where to contribute. Existing don't often come in 
the places where case owners are, or it's hard to tell whether they're 
still open. And there's always a fresher initiative (like the one 
you're trying to launch) which seems a good place.
In fact I have actually created some updated description of the 
Europeana case

http://lodlam.net/2013/06/18/what-is-europeana-doing-with-sw-and-lod/
But because the LODLAM summit was a more actual forum for me recently, 
I've posted it there. And failed thinking of updating the SWEO list, 
mea maxima culpa.


[Perspective from the case gatherers] I have actually be involved as 
'initiator' of a couple of listing.

1. SKOS datasets (which are a kind of 'case for SKOS')
We started with a web page:
http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/data
but as the list was difficult to maintain we soon created a 
community-writable wiki:

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/SKOS/Datasets
As it seemed not modern enough, we've then encouraged people to use 
the same DataHub platform as the LOD cloud:

http://datahub.io/dataset?q=format-skos
But both are not very active. And they contain a lot of dead links...
2. Library-related datasets:
http://datahub.io/dataset?groups=lld
That list, started by the Library Linked Data W3C incubator, went 
alright as long as the group was running. Now I think the rate of new 
datasets is really small, even though I *know* there are many new ones.


Both as SKOS community manager and former LLD co-chair, I've tried to 
actively mail people to create descriptions of their stuff. But it 
requires time. Most often they assume *you* would do it!
And after a while, the supporters of such effort just have other 
things to do and can't afford very high level of commitment.


What should we do if we want to build on existing lists and not 
re-invent the wheel every six months or so?
Or is it worth sending a regular (monthly?) reminder to lists like 
public-lod, reminding everyone that these lists are available and open 
for contributions?

Create a list of lists, as Wikipedia does?

Best,

Antoine


Antoine,

As you've indicated, there have been many attempts at this over the 
years and they never take-off or meet their goals etc.. The problem is 
that a different approach is required. Basically, in this scenario lies 
a simple Linked Data publication usecase i.e., a problem that Linked 
Data addresses.


The steps:

1. use a Linked Data document to describe you product, service, 
platform, usecase

2. publish the document
3. make people aware of the document.

Crawlers will find your document. The content of the document will show 
up in search results.


The trouble is that confusion around Linked Data makes 1-3 harder than 
it needs to be. Then add RDF misconceptions to the mix, and it gets 
harder e.g., that you must have generally approved vocabulary before you 
get going, when in fact you don't.


People need to understand that "scribbling" is a natural Web pattern 
i.e., rough cuts are okay since improvements will be continuous.


[SNIP]



--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/24/13 2:14 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:

Hello Kingsley Idehen,

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:32:00PM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed
to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things.

Serendipitous discovery ? I guess you are not talking about generating
random URLs to look if they access something interesting.


No I am not.



So probably you mean something like a SPARQL query using squin.org. It is
quite obvious that this only works if every URI dereferences to a complete
list of relevant links for this URI. Sounds like a central list of LOD apps.


No I am not.



Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.

Deactivate lod.openlinksw.com - that's web 101.


And you have another example of a live instance comprised of 51 Billion+ 
triples atop which you can perform faceted-style navigation of entity 
relationship graphs, that's available to any human, program (many 
end-user, integrator, or developer tools), or crawler? Please point me 
to an example of that functionality.


Anyway, here's my point: a global registry can start from a simple 
document that describes something. If the content of the document 
complies with Linked Data publishing principles, it will be discovered, 
with increasing degrees of serendipity.


Google already demonstrates some of this, in the most obvious sense via 
its search engine, and no so obvious via its crawling of Linked Data 
which then makes its way Google Knowledge Graph and G+ etc..



Kingsley



Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer




--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Antoine Isaac

Hi Dominic,

I agree with the relevance of the effort, and wouldn't argue against
centralizing. Not everyone will have the resource to search in a decentralized
fashion...

What worries me a bit is how to learn lessons for the past. As you (or someone
else) has pointed, there have been previous attempts in the past.
For example http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/
I don't find the cases there super-technical. And is it really from the past?
Looking closer, it seems still open for contribution:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/submit.html
Actually I have submitted a case there way after the SWEO group was closed:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/Europeana/

Now why do these things seem obsolete to newcomers?
Just giving some account on what I've been involved in ...

[Note: I'm sorry if sometimes it's going to read a bit as a rant. It's not
intended, just trying honestly to reflect the situation ;-) It's also not
purely about your case/requirement situation, but I believe the issues are very
similar!]

[Perspective from the case providers]
It's hard to know where to contribute. Existing don't often come in the places
where case owners are, or it's hard to tell whether they're still open. And
there's always a fresher initiative (like the one you're trying to launch)
which seems a good place.
In fact I have actually created some updated description of the Europeana case
http://lodlam.net/2013/06/18/what-is-europeana-doing-with-sw-and-lod/
But because the LODLAM summit was a more actual forum for me recently, I've
posted it there. And failed thinking of updating the SWEO list, mea maxima
culpa.

[Perspective from the case gatherers] I have actually be involved as
'initiator' of a couple of listing.
1. SKOS datasets (which are a kind of 'case for SKOS')
We started with a web page:
http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/data
but as the list was difficult to maintain we soon created a community-writable
wiki:
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/SKOS/Datasets
As it seemed not modern enough, we've then encouraged people to use the same
DataHub platform as the LOD cloud:
http://datahub.io/dataset?q=format-skos
But both are not very active. And they contain a lot of dead links...
2. Library-related datasets:
http://datahub.io/dataset?groups=lld
That list, started by the Library Linked Data W3C incubator, went alright as
long as the group was running. Now I think the rate of new datasets is really
small, even though I *know* there are many new ones.

Both as SKOS community manager and former LLD co-chair, I've tried to actively
mail people to create descriptions of their stuff. But it requires time. Most
often they assume *you* would do it!
And after a while, the supporters of such effort just have other things to do
and can't afford very high level of commitment.

What should we do if we want to build on existing lists and not re-invent the
wheel every six months or so?
Or is it worth sending a regular (monthly?) reminder to lists like public-lod,
reminding everyone that these lists are available and open for contributions?
Create a list of lists, as Wikipedia does?

Best,

Antoine

There may be a number of reasons for creating a central list and I am sure
there are others. In this case I wasn't suggesting it as a bureaucratic and
technical exercise. My reason for suggesting it was for the following.

1. It is a chance to celebrate and highlight progress in making RDF and linked
data mainstream and available to general users of the Web.
2. It shows that we are not just focused on highly technical and very detailed
definitions but on the ultimate outcomes of the great work that we all do.
3. It gives us a chance to discuss some of the real difficulties that we have
moving from manipulating and processing RDF creating sustainable and generally
beneficial applications and to help each other in this endeavour.
4. It provides an opportunity to show that we are a forward looking and
positive group with a real vision for linked data.
5. It shows that we are a serious and professional group made up of experts.

i.e. We have some requirements -> We think they could be only achieved with linked data
->, this is what we are doing and where we are -> it shows there is a real need for linked
data within this sector -> it shows there is a real need to linked data applications generally
-> I could do with some constructive advice on how to go about achieving it from the public
LOD group -> The public LOD group is a primary source of constructive advice on delivering
linked data outcomes ..

That's all. How about it?

Dominic

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Elena Simperl


On 6/23/2013 12:16 PM, Barry Norton wrote:


Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both from 
senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not to get 
refreshed with new examples).


May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID 
project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace 
is already on it ;) )?


Barry


Hi Barry,

indeed in EUCLID we are compiling such a list for training purposes, and 
we are very happy to see other people sharing our interests (thanks, 
@Dominic). Having read through the discussion threads on this mailing 
list from the past week or so, my suggestion would be to discuss the 
next steps offline together with the rest of the EUCLID team. Once we 
have a first compilation of use cases that illustrate, independently or 
in combination, the range of applications empowered by Linked Data, we 
will share our thoughts with the public-lod list to collect feedback and 
further examples.


Elena



On 23/06/13 11:28, Dominic Oldman wrote:


As a result of the other thread about applications (which should 
continue with some more and varied views) I would like to suggest 
that this list starts to compile a list of use cases for linked data. 
We should start to list end user applications from as many different 
domains as possible that could never be implemented without RDF as 
they rely on linked data and semantic harmonisation, and would 
greatly benefit end users.


I am happy to compile the suggestions made.

Dominic

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android







--
Dr. Elena Simperl
Senior Lecturer
Web and Internet Science Group
Electronics&  Computer Science
University of Southampton
email: e.simp...@soton.ac.uk
twitter: https://twitter.com/esimperl
telefone: +44 2380 59 7692
mobile: +44 7900 666705

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Hugh Glaser

Hi Barry,
No apology needed, although I was sad for the angst that must have got you to 
write that.
Actually I thought it was rather a good advert for the list and our attempts to 
have constructive discussion, although I somehow doubt there is anyone from the 
outside world reading.
Best
Hugh

On 24 Jun 2013, at 03:19, Barry Norton 
 wrote:

> On 24/06/13 01:51, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>> 
>> Barry, I'd ask you to reread your response above.  Do you think it's a good 
>> avert for this list?
>> 
> 
> No, I don't. Every such public call-out in the past has made me flinch for 
> our public image. I'm sorry that I've now got to this point too.
> 
> I'd like to apologise to the community if there's a better way I should have 
> handled this (which there undoubtedly is).
> 
> Barry
>

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-24 Thread Dominic Oldman



There may be a number of reasons for creating a central list and I am sure 
there are others. In this case I wasn't suggesting it as a bureaucratic and 
technical exercise. My reason for suggesting it was for the following.

1. It is a chance to celebrate and highlight progress in making RDF and linked 
data mainstream and available to general users of the Web.
2. It shows that we are not just focused on highly technical and very detailed 
definitions but on the ultimate outcomes of the great work that we all do.
3. It gives us a chance to discuss some of the real difficulties that we have 
moving from manipulating and processing RDF creating sustainable and generally 
beneficial applications and to help each other in this endeavour.
4. It provides an opportunity to show that we are a forward looking and 
positive group with a real vision for linked data. 
5. It shows that we are a serious and professional group made up of experts.


i.e. We have some requirements ->  We think they could be only achieved with 
linked data ->, this is what we are doing and where we are -> it showsthere is 
a real need for linked data within this sector -> it shows there is a real need 
to linked data applications generally -> I could do with some constructive 
advice on how to go about achieving it from the public LOD group -> The public 
LOD group is a primary source of constructive advice on delivering linked data 
outcomes..


That's all. How about it?

Dominic

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Michael Brunnbauer

Hello Kingsley Idehen,

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 05:32:00PM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed 
> to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things. 

Serendipitous discovery ? I guess you are not talking about generating
random URLs to look if they access something interesting.

So probably you mean something like a SPARQL query using squin.org. It is
quite obvious that this only works if every URI dereferences to a complete
list of relevant links for this URI. Sounds like a central list of LOD apps.

> Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.

Deactivate lod.openlinksw.com - that's web 101.

Regards,

Michael Brunnbauer

-- 
++  Michael Brunnbauer
++  netEstate GmbH
++  Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++  81379 München
++  Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++  Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 
++  E-Mail bru...@netestate.de
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++
++  Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++  USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++  Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++  Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel

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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 24/06/13 01:51, Melvin Carvalho wrote:


Barry, I'd ask you to reread your response above.  Do you think it's a 
good avert for this list?




No, I don't. Every such public call-out in the past has made me flinch 
for our public image. I'm sorry that I've now got to this point too.


I'd like to apologise to the community if there's a better way I should 
have handled this (which there undoubtedly is).


Barry

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Melvin Carvalho

On 24 June 2013 01:09, Dan Brickley  wrote:

> On 23 June 2013 23:46, Kingsley Idehen  wrote:
>
>>  On 6/23/13 5:36 PM, Barry Norton wrote:
>>
>>
>> Are you confusing Linked Data and Linked Open Data?
>>
>>
>> Of course not!
>>
>> Web-like structured data enhanced with explicit entity relationship
>> semantics enables serendipitous discovery at the public or private level.
>>
>> "Open" has nothing to do with "Public" . "Open" is about standards and
>> the interoperability they accord.
>>
>
> What part of
> http://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData&oldid=35551am
>  I misunderstanding? The early LOD collaborations had a clear emphasis on
> open in the sense of freely available data. I can see merit in broadening
> that, but to say "has nothing to do with" seems at odds with how a lot of
> people appeared to be understanding the initiative.
>

Dan ... "Open" became a quite difficult brand, I think in 2008 it was word
of the year, after which, there was a lot of popularity to use the term.
In certain circles it became a parody of itself, case in point, a recent
message to me from richard stallman.

[[

I note that the site uses almost exclusively the term "open source",
which is (sad to say) the slogan of people who reject our ideals.
Another way you can help us is by saying "free", or "free/libre"
to make things clearer.

]]

Many of these terms become politically loaded.  Perahps let's try not to
fall into the trap of becoming ambushed by ambuity ...

Just my 2 cents ...


>
> Dan
>
>
>
> """Interlinking Open Data on the Semantic Web
>
> Chris Bizer, Richard Cyganiak
>
> *1. Please provide a brief description of your proposed project.*
>
> The Open Data Movement  aims at
> making data freely available to everyone. There are already various
> interesting open data sources availiable on the Web. Examples include
> Wikipedia ,Wikibooks
> , Geonames , MusicBrainz
> , WorldNet , the DBLP 
> bibliography and
> many more which are published under Creative 
> Commons
>  or Talis  licenses.
>
> The goal of the proposed project is to make various open data sources
> available on the Web as RDF and to set RDF links between data items from
> different data sources.
>
> There are already some data publishing efforts. Examples include the
> dbpedia.org  project, the Geonames 
> Ontology and
> a D2R Server publishing the DBLP 
> bibliography.
> There are also initial efforts to interlink these data sources. For
> instance, the dpedia RDF descriptions of cities includes owl:sameAs links
> to the Geonames data about the city (1) .
> Another example is the RDF Book 
> Mashup which
> links book authors to paper authors within the DBLP bibliography 
> (2)
> .
>
> *2. Why did you select this particular project?*
>
> For demonstrating the value of the Semantic Web it is essential to have
> more real-world data online. RDF is also the obvious technology to
> interlink open data from various sources.
>
> *3. Why do you think this project will have a wide impact?*
>
> A huge inter-linked data set would be beneficial for various Semantic Web
> development areas, including Semantic Web browsers and other user
> interfaces, Semantic Web crawlers, RDF repositories and reasoning engines.
>
> Having a variety of useful data online would encourage people to link to
> it and could help bootstrapping the Semantic Web as a whole."""
>
>
> Dan
>

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Melvin Carvalho

On 23 June 2013 23:58, Barry Norton  wrote:

>  On 23/06/13 22:46, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
> Please, I told you before, and I will tell you again "don't try to  teach
> parents how to make babies!"
>
>
> Kingsley, your conduct on this list is beyond a joke.
>
> I would ask you to describe how one could discover an application with no
> formal self-description and no publicly acknowledged use of (publicly
> available or otherwise) Linked Data, but instead I'm going to ask you not
> to engage with me again and I shan't reply to you again.
>
> Such a level of hostility and constant bickering and one-upmanship is not
> a good advert for the technology many of us do well selling ("thank you
> very much") and I'm not going to encourage it any further [1]
>

Barry, I'd ask you to reread your response above.  Do you think it's a good
avert for this list?


>
> Barry
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
>

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

On 6/23/13 7:09 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:
On 23 June 2013 23:46, Kingsley Idehen > wrote:

On 6/23/13 5:36 PM, Barry Norton wrote:

Are you confusing Linked Data and Linked Open Data?

Of course not!

Web-like structured data enhanced with explicit entity
relationship semantics enables serendipitous discovery at the
public or private level.

"Open" has nothing to do with "Public" . "Open" is about standards
and the interoperability they accord.

What part of
http://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData&oldid=35551
am I misunderstanding? The early LOD collaborations had a clear
emphasis on open in the sense of freely available data. I can see
merit in broadening that, but to say "has nothing to do with" seems at
odds with how a lot of people appeared to be understanding the initiative.

Dan,

To be clearer "Open" is not about being "Public" . The fact that Linked
Open Data oriented datasets are public is simply beside the point.
"Open" is about standards compliance which fosters ineroperability. This
use of "Open" extends back to the early days of Unix when portability
and interoperability across computers was a novelty.

My point, re. Web 101 comment was that discovery is an incentive for
publishing content to the Web. In addition, when the content is web-like
and enhanced with machine- and human-comprehensible entity relationship
semantics, you also get the benefit of serendipitous discovery.

We don't need anything to be centralized, because centralization doesn't
scale. We just need to publish content in Linked Data form en route to
increasing the probability of serendipitous discovery.

I hope my point is clearer? I didn't mention LOD (Linked Open Data
Cloud) when I commented about not requiring a central registry of tools.

Kingsley

Dan

"""Interlinking Open Data on the Semantic Web

Chris Bizer, Richard Cyganiak

*1. Please provide a brief description of your proposed project.*

The Open Data Movement aims
at making data freely available to everyone. There are already various
interesting open data sources availiable on the Web. Examples include
Wikipedia ,Wikibooks
, Geonames ,
MusicBrainz , WorldNet
, the DBLP bibliography
and many more which
are published under Creative Commons or
Talis licenses.

The goal of the proposed project is to make various open data sources
available on the Web as RDF and to set RDF links between data items
from different data sources.

There are already some data publishing efforts. Examples include the
dbpedia.org project, the Geonames Ontology
and a D2R Server publishing the
DBLP bibliography . There are
also initial efforts to interlink these data sources. For instance,
the dpedia RDF descriptions of cities includes owl:sameAs links to the
Geonames data about the city (1) .
Another example is the RDF Book Mashup
which links
book authors to paper authors within the DBLP bibliography (2)
.

*2. Why did you select this particular project?*

For demonstrating the value of the Semantic Web it is essential to
have more real-world data online. RDF is also the obvious technology
to interlink open data from various sources.

*3. Why do you think this project will have a wide impact?*

A huge inter-linked data set would be beneficial for various Semantic
Web development areas, including Semantic Web browsers and other user
interfaces, Semantic Web crawlers, RDF repositories and reasoning engines.

Having a variety of useful data online would encourage people to link
to it and could help bootstrapping the Semantic Web as a whole."""

Dan

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

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Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Dan Brickley

On 23 June 2013 23:46, Kingsley Idehen  wrote:

>  On 6/23/13 5:36 PM, Barry Norton wrote:
>
>
> Are you confusing Linked Data and Linked Open Data?
>
>
> Of course not!
>
> Web-like structured data enhanced with explicit entity relationship
> semantics enables serendipitous discovery at the public or private level.
>
> "Open" has nothing to do with "Public" . "Open" is about standards and the
> interoperability they accord.
>

What part of
http://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData&oldid=35551am
I misunderstanding? The early LOD collaborations had a clear emphasis
on
open in the sense of freely available data. I can see merit in broadening
that, but to say "has nothing to do with" seems at odds with how a lot of
people appeared to be understanding the initiative.

Dan

"""Interlinking Open Data on the Semantic Web

Chris Bizer, Richard Cyganiak

*1. Please provide a brief description of your proposed project.*

The Open Data Movement  aims at
making data freely available to everyone. There are already various
interesting open data sources availiable on the Web. Examples include
Wikipedia ,Wikibooks 
, Geonames , MusicBrainz 
, WorldNet , the DBLP
bibliography and
many more which are published under Creative
Commons
 or Talis  licenses.

The goal of the proposed project is to make various open data sources
available on the Web as RDF and to set RDF links between data items from
different data sources.

There are already some data publishing efforts. Examples include the
dbpedia.org  project, the Geonames
Ontology and
a D2R Server publishing the DBLP
bibliography.
There are also initial efforts to interlink these data sources. For
instance, the dpedia RDF descriptions of cities includes owl:sameAs links
to the Geonames data about the city (1) .
Another example is the RDF Book
Mashup which
links book authors to paper authors within the DBLP bibliography
(2)
.

*2. Why did you select this particular project?*

For demonstrating the value of the Semantic Web it is essential to have
more real-world data online. RDF is also the obvious technology to
interlink open data from various sources.

*3. Why do you think this project will have a wide impact?*

A huge inter-linked data set would be beneficial for various Semantic Web
development areas, including Semantic Web browsers and other user
interfaces, Semantic Web crawlers, RDF repositories and reasoning engines.

Having a variety of useful data online would encourage people to link to it
and could help bootstrapping the Semantic Web as a whole."""

Dan

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 23/06/13 22:46, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
Please, I told you before, and I will tell you again "don't try to  
teach parents how to make babies!"


Kingsley, your conduct on this list is beyond a joke.

I would ask you to describe how one could discover an application with 
no formal self-description and no publicly acknowledged use of (publicly 
available or otherwise) Linked Data, but instead I'm going to ask you 
not to engage with me again and I shan't reply to you again.


Such a level of hostility and constant bickering and one-upmanship is 
not a good advert for the technology many of us do well selling ("thank 
you very much") and I'm not going to encourage it any further [1]


Barry
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/23/13 5:36 PM, Barry Norton wrote:


Are you confusing Linked Data and Linked Open Data?


Of course not!

Web-like structured data enhanced with explicit entity relationship 
semantics enables serendipitous discovery at the public or private level.


"Open" has nothing to do with "Public" . "Open" is about standards and 
the interoperability they accord.




Even if applications were all built on LOD (which they're not), and 
described themselves as LOD (which they don't), I don't buy this argument.


Not by point, I said nothing about the Public Linked Open Data Cloud. 
Likewise, I said nothing about Public Domain data.




It's interesting that you think "this is Web 101" when Google struggle 
to assemble a complete list of anything, while Wikipedia is full of 
lists and lists of lists and lists of lists of lists.


Again, it is Web 101 to publish content with discovery in mind. That has 
nothing to do with 100% precision when you seek.


Now, if you want to learn about precision and find, that's where the 
power of web-like structured data endowed with machine- and 
human-comprehensible entity relationship semantics come into play.


And if you wanna play ball, then take a look at how we dog-food via 
public demonstration at: http://lod.openlinksw.com .


Please note the "lod" doesn't mean public cloud. It just means you can 
have this massive amount of Linked Open Data hosted in public or in 
private en route to exploiting high precision search and find that based 
on entity relationship semantics.


I thought you were clearly aware of the fact the Linked Open Data != 
Publicly available data etc..


Please, I told you before, and I will tell you again "don't try to teach 
parents how to make babies!"


Kingsley


Barry



On 23/06/13 22:32, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

On 6/23/13 7:16 AM, Barry Norton wrote:


Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both 
from senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not 
to get refreshed with new examples).


May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID 
project, where we're already compiling such a list (and 
ResearchSpace is already on it ;) )?


Barry


We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is 
supposed to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant 
things. Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.


If you have something relevant, just publish it. That's it.

Kingsley





On 23/06/13 11:28, Dominic Oldman wrote:


As a result of the other thread about applications (which should 
continue with some more and varied views) I would like to suggest 
that this list starts to compile a list of use cases for linked 
data. We should start to list end user applications from as many 
different domains as possible that could never be implemented 
without RDF as they rely on linked data and semantic harmonisation, 
and would greatly benefit end users.


I am happy to compile the suggestions made.

Dominic

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android






--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen









--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen






smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications



Are you confusing Linked Data and Linked Open Data?

Even if applications were all built on LOD (which they're not), and 
described themselves as LOD (which they don't), I don't buy this argument.


It's interesting that you think "this is Web 101" when Google struggle 
to assemble a complete list of anything, while Wikipedia is full of 
lists and lists of lists and lists of lists of lists.


Barry



On 23/06/13 22:32, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

On 6/23/13 7:16 AM, Barry Norton wrote:


Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both 
from senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not 
to get refreshed with new examples).


May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID 
project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace 
is already on it ;) )?


Barry


We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is 
supposed to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant 
things. Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.


If you have something relevant, just publish it. That's it.

Kingsley





On 23/06/13 11:28, Dominic Oldman wrote:


As a result of the other thread about applications (which should 
continue with some more and varied views) I would like to suggest 
that this list starts to compile a list of use cases for linked 
data. We should start to list end user applications from as many 
different domains as possible that could never be implemented 
without RDF as they rely on linked data and semantic harmonisation, 
and would greatly benefit end users.


I am happy to compile the suggestions made.

Dominic

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android






--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/23/13 7:16 AM, Barry Norton wrote:


Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both from 
senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not to get 
refreshed with new examples).


May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID 
project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace 
is already on it ;) )?


Barry


We don't need a central repository of anything. Linked Data is supposed 
to be about enhancing serendipitous discovery of relevant things. 
Centralization doesn't scale, that's Web 101.


If you have something relevant, just publish it. That's it.

Kingsley





On 23/06/13 11:28, Dominic Oldman wrote:


As a result of the other thread about applications (which should 
continue with some more and varied views) I would like to suggest 
that this list starts to compile a list of use cases for linked data. 
We should start to list end user applications from as many different 
domains as possible that could never be implemented without RDF as 
they rely on linked data and semantic harmonisation, and would 
greatly benefit end users.


I am happy to compile the suggestions made.

Dominic

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android






--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen






smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications


On 6/23/13 6:28 AM, Dominic Oldman wrote:


As a result of the other thread about applications (which should 
continue with some more and varied views) I would like to suggest that 
this list starts to compile a list of use cases for linked data. We 
should start to list end user applications from as many different 
domains as possible that could never be implemented without RDF as 
they rely on linked data and semantic harmonisation, and would greatly 
benefit end users.


I am happy to compile the suggestions made.

Dominic

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android


Dominic,

You pose a nice riddle to those that claim support Linked Data and RDF 
but continue to struggle with the dog-food dimension of such claims 
i.e., if RDF and Linked Data are so useful, then do showcase how you put 
them to use before lecturing or preaching to others etc..


Circa. 2013 we shouldn't still be trying to determine what useful tools 
are or struggle to discover them either. We don't need a central 
repository of anything, assuming we actually know what Linked Data is 
really about.


Anyone that has an application, tool, service, or platform that provides 
utility in the Linked Data and/or RDF realms should be able to perform 
the following basic acts:


1. denote/name the product, application, service of platform using a 
de-referencable URI
2. publish the URI so that when someone (or a user agent) can look-up 
the URI
3. when the URI is looked-up you GET back a description of the 
application (the URIs referent).


The fact that the above isn't the norm speaks volumes about Linked Data 
comprehension and actually utility by those that would like to teach 
others about what Linked Data is or is not.


Now, here's how we deal with this matter:

1. http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com/data/turtle/ -- everything you need to 
know about Virtuoso products, releases, and offers
2. http://uda.openlinksw.com/data/turtle/ -- everything you need to know 
about our Universal Data Access driver products, releases, and offers
3. http://www.openlinksw.com/data/turtle/ -- additional information 
including shared vocabularies that we use to describe our stuff
4. http://www.openlinksw.com/data/turtle/ontology_mappings/ -- ontology 
mappings that we leverage in our descriptions, where applicable
5. http://ode.openlinksw.com -- a simple extension and/or service (URL 
patterns) for browsing Linked Data
6. http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com -- a platform for data integration, 
management, and publication
7. http://youid.openlinksw.com -- simple use of Linked Data to enable 
users regain control of their privacy by enabling them manage their own 
digital identity

8. many more, but 6 items will do for now.


--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen






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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Dominic Oldman

Barry 

The sort of thing that I might envisage recording on the register is this (if 
not too onerous). Please suggesta different format if this is too rigid.

User Requirement: A description of the general requirement that would be 
addressed by an RDF application approach.

Audience: The main user groups for an application. 

Particular Benefit of using RDF: Why RDF enhances or makes the initiative 
possible  

Domain: The sector in which the requirement is needed.

Current Status: What progress has been made in addressing the requirement using 
Linked 'RDF' Data.

Approach and Techniques: What additional elements are needed along with RDF to 
achieve the requirement.

Related Initiatives: Projects or initiatives that have some relationship to 
this requirement.

Contacts: People involved in satisfying the requirement

I will start off with one of my own examples.

User Requirement: The ability to harmonise different cultural heritage 
catalogue (object) records (using a set of agreed generalisations) so that they 
can searched as a single collection. This can then be used to co-reference 
terminology, people and places, infer new information and expose potential 
relationships between different cultural heritage (or other) objects. An 
application that supported this type of analysis would be of huge benefit to 
cultural heritage organisations (curators) and humanities researchers (High 
Eduication) and would challenge exisiting work and conclusions that has relied 
on traditional manual methods of enquiry. It could also be used for highly 
innovative general engagement or education applications. It would also support 
a range of other applications covering a wide range of audience type. 

Audience: The interface must be usable for people who are basic computer users 
but which understand basic cultural heritage terminology.

Particular Benefit of RDF: The particular benefit is that data can be brought 
together without losing important institutional metadata (squeezing data into a 
common set of fields) 

and the contextual nature of the original source is preserved in the RDF 
triples. The system makes heavy use of inference and reasoning. 

Domain: Cultural Heritage with wider implications.

Currrent Status: A working prototype of the search system has been created and 
different RDFdatasets are being loaded (see www.researchspace.org). A 
specification for co-referencing is in draft and due for development during 
2013. 

Approach and techniques: Context is provided using the CIDOC-CRM ontology. The 
system uses the OWLIM SE triplestore. Backend uses JAVA and the user interface 
mainly uses Javascript. 

Related Initiatives: Not known

Contacts: Dominic Oldman, British Museum, ResearchSpace (www.ResearchSpace.org).

I should find a place to display the harvested posts...

Dominic

 From: Barry Norton 
To: ☮ elf Pavlik ☮  
Cc: public-lod  
Sent: Sunday, 23 June 2013, 12:46
Subject: Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical  
End User Applications

Not published yet - exemplar applications go in EUCLID's Module 5, which we'll 
consult the list on, as we did for Modules 3 and 4.

We'll also include it in an endpoint for the SKOS/schema.org version of the 
syllabus, which I'm now honour-bound to publicly release now our project 
review's done.

Stand by for a message from Maria Maleshkova at KIT, where they compile the 
syllabus...

Barry

On 23/06/13 12:41, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ wrote:
> Excerpts from Barry Norton's message of 2013-06-23 11:16:16 +:
>> Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both from
>> senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not to get
>> refreshed with new examples).
>> 
>> May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID
>> project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace is
>> already on it ;) )?
> where do we find this list? :)

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread Dominic Oldman

Barry 

I think that the source matters not and that I expect people to already know or 
be working on requirements in different settings. Documenting as many potential 
applications of linked data from different sources can only be a positive thing 
for this list where we can see positive ideas and objectives in different 
domains and widen our understanding of what people want to do.  In turn the 
expertise of this list can provide constructive comments based on our own 
experience and experimentations since many on this list understand the 
difficulties and challenges and have built up great experience.

Dominic

.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications



Not published yet - exemplar applications go in EUCLID's Module 5, which 
we'll consult the list on, as we did for Modules 3 and 4.


We'll also include it in an endpoint for the SKOS/schema.org version of 
the syllabus, which I'm now honour-bound to publicly release now our 
project review's done.


Stand by for a message from Maria Maleshkova at KIT, where they compile 
the syllabus...


Barry



On 23/06/13 12:41, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ wrote:

Excerpts from Barry Norton's message of 2013-06-23 11:16:16 +:

Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both from
senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not to get
refreshed with new examples).

May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID
project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace is
already on it ;) )?

where do we find this list? :)

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications

2013-06-23 Thread ☮ elf Pavlik ☮

Excerpts from Barry Norton's message of 2013-06-23 11:16:16 +:
> 
> Dominic, I think this is a great idea - the W3C lists suffer both from 
> senescence and fatigue (i.e., they're out-of-date and seem not to get 
> refreshed with new examples).
> 
> May I be presumptuous enough to offer to help/steal from the EUCLID 
> project, where we're already compiling such a list (and ResearchSpace is 
> already on it ;) )?
where do we find this list? :)

Re: The Great Public Linked Data Use Case Register for Non-Technical End User Applications