[Python-Dev] Re: [Release management] schedule for renaming the default branch

[Serhiy Storchaka]

10.03.21 16:06, Pablo Galindo Salgado пише:
> # What you need to do?
> 
> You just need to update your local clone after the branch name changes.
> From the local clone of the repository on a computer,
> run the following commands to update the name of the default branch.
> 
> $ git branch -m master main
> $ git fetch origin
> $ git branch -u origin/main main
> 
> Apart from that, you should update any local script or command that uses
> the name "master" to use the name "main".

I have above 200 feature branches in my local repository. Will renaming
the master branch cause any problems?

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Carol Willing]

GitLab has just posted the following re: default branches.
https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2021/03/10/new-git-default-branch-name/

Please take a moment to pause before posting. Please consider whether
additional comments are constructive. I'm concerned that rehashing the same
arguments will reflect poorly on the Python Core Development community.

Thank you.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:35 PM Jonathan Cronin  wrote:

>
>
> > On Mar 10, 2021, at 4:45 PM, David Mertz  wrote:
> >
> > In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows from
> so-called "master/slave network architecture." I saw in this thread one
> implausible argument that it was intended in the sense of "magister." I
> don't believe it, but even if we stipulate that whoever first used the word
> in relation to version control meant that, nearly everyone else who
> discusses it means "master/slave."
>
> I don't think it derives from "master/slave network architecture.”.  I
> think it derives from the use of “master”
> to denote an instance or prototype that is used to create identical copies
> or replicas, a usage that predates networking, as in master tape, master
> print, and, (perhaps archaically for you :)), mimeograph master.
>
> Irrelevantly, I also think all (almost all?) uses of "master/slave” to
> describe network architectures are lazy; there is a better existing
> description, e.g. “active/passive”, “polling” etc.
>
> Jonathan
>
> P.S. My preference would be “mainline” over “main”.  I like railroad
> version diagrams.
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Jonathan Cronin]

> On Mar 10, 2021, at 4:45 PM, David Mertz  wrote:
> 
> In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows from 
> so-called "master/slave network architecture." I saw in this thread one 
> implausible argument that it was intended in the sense of "magister." I don't 
> believe it, but even if we stipulate that whoever first used the word in 
> relation to version control meant that, nearly everyone else who discusses it 
> means "master/slave."

I don't think it derives from "master/slave network architecture.”.  I think it 
derives from the use of “master”
to denote an instance or prototype that is used to create identical copies or 
replicas, a usage that predates networking, as in master tape, master print, 
and, (perhaps archaically for you :)), mimeograph master.

Irrelevantly, I also think all (almost all?) uses of "master/slave” to describe 
network architectures are lazy; there is a better existing description, e.g. 
“active/passive”, “polling” etc.

Jonathan

P.S. My preference would be “mainline” over “main”.  I like railroad version 
diagrams.
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Paul Bryan]

Google tells me...

From https://github.com/bitkeeper-scm/bitkeeper/blob/master/doc/HOWTO.ask
:
> We are then going to modify the file on both the master and slave
> repository and then merge the work.

This particular passage was also cited in GNOME developer discussions
regarding the usage of the term:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/msg00066.html
 


On Wed, 2021-03-10 at 15:38 -0800, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> On 2021-03-10 13:45, David Mertz wrote:
> > In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows
> > from 
> > so-called "master/slave network architecture."
> 
> 
> It was shown upthread that this isn't the case.  Do you have more
> accurate 
> documentation to refute the claim?
> 
> - https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
> - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)
> 
> -Mike
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Christian Heimes]

On 11/03/2021 00.38, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> On 2021-03-10 13:45, David Mertz wrote:
>> In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows
>> from so-called "master/slave network architecture."
> 
> 
> It was shown upthread that this isn't the case.  Do you have more
> accurate documentation to refute the claim?
> 
> - https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
> - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)

Petr Baudis (xpasky) also wrote:

---
(But as noted in a separate thread, it is possible it stems from
bitkeeper's master/slave terminology. I hoped to do some historical
research but health emergency in my family delayed that.)

Regardless, the impression words form in the reader is more important
than their intent.
---

https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272817929046962176

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Mike Miller]

On 2021-03-10 13:45, David Mertz wrote:
In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows from 
so-called "master/slave network architecture."



It was shown upthread that this isn't the case.  Do you have more accurate 
documentation to refute the claim?


- https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio)

-Mike
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Paul Bryan]

I don't think it's particularly constructive, even as a strawman, to
imagine every conceivable way some word could be interpreted as
offensive. I submit that if the community consensus is that "chain"
becomes a derogatory term, then we should agree to change it too.

On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 08:23 +1100, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 02:23:33PM +, David Mertz wrote:
> > > > It even has a symbol for chains, which is associated even more 
> > > > closely with slavery than "master".
> > > > 
> > > 
> > All the other examples are also forced and contrived.  This is
> > perhaps
> > worst.  I own several chains for purposes having nothing to do with
> > bondage
> > or oppression.
> 
> Chains are an almost universal symbol of bondage and slavery: "Man is
> born free but everywhere he is in chains", according to Rosseau
> (please 
> forgive the sexism, his sense was mankind as a whole regardless of
> sex 
> or gender). How is this contrived? Not just contrived, but the
> "worst" 
> example of it.
> 
> If "master" is hurtful and harmful because of its connotations,
> "chains" 
> is even more so. There are "harmless" (supposedly) meanings for
> "master" 
> too, and "master branch" is one, but we decided to remove that. And
> yet 
> you are resistant to changing the others. Why?
> 
> 

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[David Mertz]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:30 PM Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> > All the other examples are also forced and contrived.  This is perhaps
> worst.  I own several chains for purposes having nothing to do with bondage
> or oppression.
>
> Chains are an almost universal symbol of bondage and slavery: "Man is
> born free but everywhere he is in chains", according to Rosseau (please
> forgive the sexism, his sense was mankind as a whole regardless of sex
> or gender). How is this contrived? Not just contrived, but the "worst"
> example of it.
>

I think you actually understand this and are feigning for rhetorical effect.

ChainMap is suggestive of "sequential interlocked pieces." Obviously, what
it does isn't identical to the actual metal construct, but it's reminiscent
though.

I could imagine that that some other name of a software object could be
named after chains as used in human bondage. But this one simply isn't. I
genuinely cannot think of any way metaphorically to connect ChainMap to
that.

In contrast, the "master" used in version control directly borrows from
so-called "master/slave network architecture." I saw in this thread one
implausible argument that it was intended in the sense of "magister." I
don't believe it, but even if we stipulate that whoever first used the word
in relation to version control meant that, nearly everyone else who
discusses it means "master/slave."

I can also imagine some very different software object that used a
different sense. If something else really did invoke "master key" (a key
that fits all the locks), that might be innocuous. But again, that sense
makes no sense in relation to version control, and no one believes that is
the meaning.

>
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 02:23:33PM +, David Mertz wrote:
> >> It even has a symbol for chains, which is associated even more 
> >> closely with slavery than "master".
> >>
> >
> All the other examples are also forced and contrived.  This is perhaps
> worst.  I own several chains for purposes having nothing to do with bondage
> or oppression.

Chains are an almost universal symbol of bondage and slavery: "Man is 
born free but everywhere he is in chains", according to Rosseau (please 
forgive the sexism, his sense was mankind as a whole regardless of sex 
or gender). How is this contrived? Not just contrived, but the "worst" 
example of it.

If "master" is hurtful and harmful because of its connotations, "chains" 
is even more so. There are "harmless" (supposedly) meanings for "master" 
too, and "master branch" is one, but we decided to remove that. And yet 
you are resistant to changing the others. Why?


-- 
Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Steven D'Aprano]

Evpok, did you think I was joking?

I think it is a terrible thing for you to accuse me of being 
"derogatory" and threaten me with the CoC because I have said we need to 
do better. It sounds like you are making light of the real pain people 
are suffering, every bit as real if not more so than that caused by the 
use of "master".

Every one of us needs to ask why we are in favour of renaming the master 
branch to main but not the other examples. Are we "following the general 
convention" (Evpok's words) to just follow the crowd and be like 
everyone else, or because you want to actually help people?

It is things like your reaction, and Victor's, and David's, that gives 
ammunition to people who say that this is just performative virtue 
signalling. Someone who isn't one of the "in group" points out that 
words you use are every equally bit as harmful as "master", and you're 
hostile and negative and raising the CoC.


-- 
Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Tottime column for cprofile output does not add up

[Terry Reedy]

On 3/10/2021 7:16 AM, Jonathan Frawley wrote:


I am using cprofile and PStats to try and figure out where bottlenecks are in a program. 
When I sum up all of the times in the "tottime" column, it only comes to 57% of 
the total runtime. Is this due to rounding of times or some other issue?


pydev list discusses development of future versions, not usage of 
current version.  Please ask your question on python-list.



--
Terry Jan Reedy

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Damian Shaw]

It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as the
default name.


> I agree, not yet. But I think the writing is on the wall that this will
be the new convention.

FYI for accuracy the git installer includes an option to change the default
branch name with a notice that there will be an upcoming change to have the
default name be something more inclusive:
https://sfconservancy.org/news/2020/jun/23/gitbranchname/ . This notice
appears to predate Github's announcement of the change of name of the
default branch: https://github.com/github/renaming

Damian
(he/him)


On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 12:56 PM Paul Bryan  wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 02:20 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
> GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as the
> default name.
>
>
> I agree, not yet. But I think the writing is on the wall that this will be
> the new convention.
>
> This is a *political* move made for *political* reasons, and has
> consequences downstream. Why is it so important to cause actual real
> problems for no reason other than to feel good about one insignificant
> piece of language - and, as Steve pointed out, not even the most
> significant one?
>
>
> I don't see this so much as "feel good" as much as "fit in". I do not
> appreciate the cost of fitting-in though in this case.
>
> To elaborate, there are words we would clearly not use when naming
> branches, modules, classes, etc. I don't think this list is fixed; I think
> it changes with the times, and if we value our community, then our
> community's (changing) standards should figure into our choices.
>
> Paul
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: [Release management] schedule for renaming the default branch

[Stestagg]

Thanks for the response!

No. It has been discussed by the Steering Council as you can see in the
> February update:
> https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-02-steering-council-update.md
>
>
Ok, great, I assume the missing bits will be coming in the March update

Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Paul Bryan]

On Thu, 2021-03-11 at 02:20 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
> GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as
> the
> default name.

I agree, not yet. But I think the writing is on the wall that this will
be the new convention.

> This is a *political* move made for *political* reasons, and has
> consequences downstream. Why is it so important to cause actual real
> problems for no reason other than to feel good about one
> insignificant
> piece of language - and, as Steve pointed out, not even the most
> significant one?

I don't see this so much as "feel good" as much as "fit in". I do not
appreciate the cost of fitting-in though in this case.

To elaborate, there are words we would clearly not use when naming
branches, modules, classes, etc. I don't think this list is fixed; I
think it changes with the times, and if we value our community, then
our community's (changing) standards should figure into our choices.

Paul

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Paul Bryan]

While, I agree "master" is not and should not be considered a
derogatory term—it has demonstrable valid usage—unfortunately the broad
usage of "master/slave" terminology in technology muddies the waters. 

If it's not changed, the debate about the continuing to use the term
will likely be ongoing. So, despite there being no technical merit to
the change, my vote would be +1 to change to main, simply to avoid
distraction from inevitable ongoing pushes to change it. 


On Wed, 2021-03-10 at 08:11 -0800, Carol Willing wrote:
> I echo Barry's earlier response.
> 
> To directly address individuals who object to renaming the branch: I
> respect your opinion. As I weigh the benefits of keeping the status
> quo with the benefits of changing, I see the change as a temporary
> inconvenience to update the branch once in order to open the door to
> the benefits of conforming to the new industry norm and the
> simplification that brings to tooling configuration and
> user/contributor documentation.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:49 AM MRAB 
> wrote:
> > On 2021-03-10 15:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:23:33 +
> > > David Mertz  wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant
> > practice on
> > >> GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python
> > doesn't
> > >> need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that
> > political
> > >> sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices
> > and
> > >> injustices.
> > > 
> > > Uh... Since you're putting "fun" in quotes, I assume this is
> > quoting
> > > someone else? (who?)
> > > 
> > It's not a quote, it's Irony punctuation (in this case, used to
> > indicate 
> > sarcasm):
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:38:46 +
MRAB  wrote:
> On 2021-03-10 15:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:23:33 +
> > David Mertz  wrote:  
> >> 
> >> Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant practice on
> >> GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python doesn't
> >> need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that political
> >> sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices and
> >> injustices.  
> > 
> > Uh... Since you're putting "fun" in quotes, I assume this is quoting
> > someone else? (who?)
> >   
> It's not a quote, it's Irony punctuation (in this case, used to indicate 
> sarcasm):
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation

Sarcasm about what?  About slavery?  I don't understand, sorry.

In any case, be mindful that irony depends on shared cultural
references, and what seems obvious to you or David may seem
flabbergasting to others.

Regards

Antoine.


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[Python-Dev] Re: [Release management] schedule for renaming the default branch

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

I am answering this as a member of the release management team, not as an
official response from the SC.

> and understand who the identified impacted parties are

All developers that have clones of the repository and any party maintaining
any script that interacts with the default CPython branch.

> and what the plan is to notify them

These messages on python-dev and python-comitters + messages in the
official release announcement and notes.

> and help them update within this timescale

For the repositories, execute the commands listed in the previous message.
For scrips and other references to the main branch,
they need to do the change themselves but in most cases is a simple rename
master->main.

> Has this analysis been published anywhere

No. It has been discussed by the Steering Council as you can see in the
February update:
https://github.com/python/steering-council/blob/main/updates/2021-02-steering-council-update.md



On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 at 14:21, Stestagg  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I would be great to read the impact analysis for this change, and
> understand who the identified impacted parties are, and what the plan is to
> notify them and help them update within this timescale.
>
> Has this analysis been published anywhere? I know there are lots of places
> where discussions/documentation happens
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 2:10 PM Pablo Galindo Salgado 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am writing on behalf of the Python Release Management team. The
>> Steering Council has requested the RM team to schedule
>> and perform the necessary changes to rename the default branch from
>> master to main.
>>
>> # The changes
>>
>> What follows is the technical description of the changes and the
>> timeline. In order to keep this thread focused on this particular
>> aspect, if you wish to discuss anything related to the change itself,
>> please, open a new email thread or reuse an existing one.
>>
>>- The change will be executed ***when beta 1 is released***, as the
>>beta 1 release requires some branching engineering already
>>to create the 3.10 branch and point 3.11 to the new one as well as
>>changing CI, buildbots...etc **
>> *This is scheduled for Monday, 2021-05-03**.*
>>- The CI will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
>>- The buildbots will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
>>- Branch protection rules will be adapted.
>>- The different bots will be adapted by the respective bot maintainer
>>teams.
>>- All the URLs that point to master in the README and other places
>>will be adapted to point to main instead (notice this is
>>not strictly necessary because GitHub redirects automatically).
>>
>> Notice that the renaming will automatically:
>>
>>
>>- Re-target any open pull requests
>>- Update any draft releases based on the branch
>>- Move any branch protection rules that explicitly reference the old
>>name
>>- Show a notice to repository contributors, maintainers, and admins
>>on the repository homepage with instructions to update local copies of the
>>repository
>>- Show a notice to contributors who git push to the old branch
>>- Redirect web requests for the old branch name to the new branch name
>>- Return a "Moved Permanently" response in API requests for the old
>>branch name
>>
>> Check this  for more information.
>>
>> # What you need to do?
>>
>> You just need to update your local clone after the branch name changes.
>> From the local clone of the repository on a computer,
>> run the following commands to update the name of the default branch.
>>
>> $ git branch -m master main
>> $ git fetch origin
>> $ git branch -u origin/main main
>>
>> Apart from that, you should update any local script or command that uses
>> the name "master" to use the name "main".
>>
>> Regards from windy London,
>> Pablo Galindo Salgado
>> ___
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>>
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Carol Willing]

I echo Barry's earlier response.

To directly address individuals who object to renaming the branch: I
respect your opinion. As I weigh the benefits of keeping the status quo
with the benefits of changing, I see the change as a temporary
inconvenience to update the branch once in order to open the door to the
benefits of conforming to the new industry norm and the simplification that
brings to tooling configuration and user/contributor documentation.

Thanks.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:49 AM MRAB  wrote:

> On 2021-03-10 15:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:23:33 +
> > David Mertz  wrote:
> >>
> >> Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant practice on
> >> GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python doesn't
> >> need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that political
> >> sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices and
> >> injustices.
> >
> > Uh... Since you're putting "fun" in quotes, I assume this is quoting
> > someone else? (who?)
> >
> It's not a quote, it's Irony punctuation (in this case, used to indicate
> sarcasm):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation
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[Python-Dev] Tottime column for cprofile output does not add up

[Jonathan Frawley]

Hi,

I am using cprofile and PStats to try and figure out where bottlenecks are in a 
program. When I sum up all of the times in the "tottime" column, it only comes 
to 57% of the total runtime. Is this due to rounding of times or some other 
issue?

Thanks,
Jonathan
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:48 AM Charalampos Stratakis
 wrote:
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Chris Angelico" 
> > To: "Python-Dev" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:20:19 PM
> > Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:16 AM Evpok Padding 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > Apparently renaming a git branch to follow the general convention is now 
> > > an
> > > unbearable outrage.
> >
> > It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
> > GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as the
> > default name.
> >
>
> The git project is working on that for a long time and the default will be 
> switched at some point: 
> https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006091126540.482@ZVAVAG-DN14RQO.ybpnyqbznva/#r
>

Okay, I wasn't aware of that. Although that is still notable in that
it spends a LOT of time talking about the technical consequences of
the change.

If there were no negative consequences (maybe if this were a
greenfield project, or if it happened at the same time as a much
larger change like hg->git), it wouldn't make a lot of difference, and
go ahead, let the political argument sway the decision. But I detest
political changes being forced on everyone when they bring
immeasurable benefit in nontechnical areas, while having baggage of
actual real problems with actual real compatibility issues.

ChrisA
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Charalampos Stratakis]

- Original Message -
> From: "Chris Angelico" 
> To: "Python-Dev" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:20:19 PM
> Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February
> 
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:16 AM Evpok Padding 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Apparently renaming a git branch to follow the general convention is now an
> > unbearable outrage.
> 
> It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
> GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as the
> default name.
> 

The git project is working on that for a long time and the default will be 
switched at some point: 
https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006091126540.482@ZVAVAG-DN14RQO.ybpnyqbznva/#r

Gitlab is also transitioning. It was changed in all the Fedora's repositories 
as well.


> This is a *political* move made for *political* reasons, and has
> consequences downstream. Why is it so important to cause actual real
> problems for no reason other than to feel good about one insignificant
> piece of language - and, as Steve pointed out, not even the most
> significant one?
> 
> Let's take ChainMap as an example. Would you propose renaming it in
> Python 3.11? Would there be pushback against such a proposal? Things
> in the Python standard library, when renamed, can have aliases to
> ensure backward compatibility. Can you do that with a branch rename?
> What plans are there to ensure that scripts and tooling can work on
> both sides of such a rename?
> 

On Fedora we use a git symbolic reference for the old branches.

> Why has there been no discussion of the technical implications of this
> change prior to now?
> 
> ChrisA
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> 
> 

-- 
Regards,

Charalampos Stratakis
Software Engineer
Python Maintenance Team, Red Hat

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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[MRAB]

On 2021-03-10 15:17, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:23:33 +
David Mertz  wrote:


Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant practice on
GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python doesn't
need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that political
sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices and
injustices.


Uh... Since you're putting "fun" in quotes, I assume this is quoting
someone else? (who?)

It's not a quote, it's Irony punctuation (in this case, used to indicate 
sarcasm):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_punctuation
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:16 AM Evpok Padding  wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Apparently renaming a git branch to follow the general convention is now an 
> unbearable outrage.

It is NOT a general convention. It is a push by Microsoft (owners of
GitHub). Outside of GitHub, the git command still uses "master" as the
default name.

This is a *political* move made for *political* reasons, and has
consequences downstream. Why is it so important to cause actual real
problems for no reason other than to feel good about one insignificant
piece of language - and, as Steve pointed out, not even the most
significant one?

Let's take ChainMap as an example. Would you propose renaming it in
Python 3.11? Would there be pushback against such a proposal? Things
in the Python standard library, when renamed, can have aliases to
ensure backward compatibility. Can you do that with a branch rename?
What plans are there to ensure that scripts and tooling can work on
both sides of such a rename?

Why has there been no discussion of the technical implications of this
change prior to now?

ChrisA
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 14:23:33 +
David Mertz  wrote:
> 
> Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant practice on
> GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python doesn't
> need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that political
> sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices and
> injustices.

Uh... Since you're putting "fun" in quotes, I assume this is quoting
someone else? (who?)

Regards

Antoine.


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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Victor Stinner]

Hi,

Could we please stick to the point of renaming a Git branch? Today,
renaming a branch is easy. The rationale has been given. I don't think
any argument is going to make the Steering Concil changing their mind
("the consensus was that we should do that"). If you want to help,
please remain at the technical level to help making this migration as
smooth as possible for everybody.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 2:09 PM Evpok Padding  wrote:
> If the discussion here can stay civil for changes with far more repercussions 
> for Python (e.g. controversial PEPs), surely it can stay civil for this too.

Thanks. For people able to remain constructive and civil, please join
the discussion on the devguide on "listing terms which should be
avoided":
https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/605

While it's not easy to give an exhaustive list of terms which should
be avoided, IMO it would prevent future discussion like this thread.
I'm tired of such discussion which is not constructive at all and goes
nowhere. People love to take it as an opportonity to troll and quickly
messages become more and more offensive.

IMO 
https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/styleguide/inclusive_code.md
is a good example to follow: it's short and gives concrete advices for
better terms.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[David Mertz]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:13 PM Evpok Padding 
wrote:

> Apparently renaming a git branch to follow the general convention is now
> an unbearable outrage. It strikes me as a somewhat odd hill to die on, but
> okay. However there is a code of conduct that is supposed to be followed
> here https://www.python.org/psf/conduct. Let me quote
>
> > Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include: […] Insults,
> put downs, or jokes that are based upon stereotypes, that are exclusionary,
> or that hold others up for ridicule
>

Renaming main branches as 'main' is currently predominant practice on
GitHub (and more broadly in Free Software communities).  Python doesn't
need to cling to an old name based on a tired argument that political
sensitivity is a creeping plot to destroy old "fun" prejudices and
injustices.

Yes, in Latin the sense of 'magister' was "teacher" fairly neutrally.  That
is not more accurate for the source control intent than is 'main'.  This
passes through both the Old French 'maistre' with pretty much the Latin
meaning, as well as through Old English 'maegister'.  By the time of Middle
English in the mid-14th century CE, the sense of "dominance" is the
predominant one, specifically in the patriarchal meaning of "male head of a
household" prior to the Atlantic Slave Trade (also not an insinuation we
wish to promote).

It even has a symbol for chains, which is associated even more closely
>> with slavery than "master".
>>
>
All the other examples are also forced and contrived.  This is perhaps
worst.  I own several chains for purposes having nothing to do with bondage
or oppression. Towing a car, hanging a bird feeder, and affixing a fence
gate are well served by interlocked loops of metal.  Which is honestly, a
pretty good skeuomorphic mnemonic for what ChainMap does.


-- 
The dead increasingly dominate and strangle both the living and the
not-yet born.  Vampiric capital and undead corporate persons abuse
the lives and control the thoughts of homo faber. Ideas, once born,
become abortifacients against new conceptions.
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[Python-Dev] Re: [Release management] schedule for renaming the default branch

[Stestagg]

Hi

I would be great to read the impact analysis for this change, and
understand who the identified impacted parties are, and what the plan is to
notify them and help them update within this timescale.

Has this analysis been published anywhere? I know there are lots of places
where discussions/documentation happens

Thanks

Steve



On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 2:10 PM Pablo Galindo Salgado 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am writing on behalf of the Python Release Management team. The Steering
> Council has requested the RM team to schedule
> and perform the necessary changes to rename the default branch from master
> to main.
>
> # The changes
>
> What follows is the technical description of the changes and the timeline.
> In order to keep this thread focused on this particular
> aspect, if you wish to discuss anything related to the change itself,
> please, open a new email thread or reuse an existing one.
>
>- The change will be executed ***when beta 1 is released***, as the
>beta 1 release requires some branching engineering already
>to create the 3.10 branch and point 3.11 to the new one as well as
>changing CI, buildbots...etc **
> *This is scheduled for Monday, 2021-05-03**.*
>- The CI will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
>- The buildbots will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
>- Branch protection rules will be adapted.
>- The different bots will be adapted by the respective bot maintainer
>teams.
>- All the URLs that point to master in the README and other places
>will be adapted to point to main instead (notice this is
>not strictly necessary because GitHub redirects automatically).
>
> Notice that the renaming will automatically:
>
>
>- Re-target any open pull requests
>- Update any draft releases based on the branch
>- Move any branch protection rules that explicitly reference the old
>name
>- Show a notice to repository contributors, maintainers, and admins on
>the repository homepage with instructions to update local copies of the
>repository
>- Show a notice to contributors who git push to the old branch
>- Redirect web requests for the old branch name to the new branch name
>- Return a "Moved Permanently" response in API requests for the old
>branch name
>
> Check this  for more information.
>
> # What you need to do?
>
> You just need to update your local clone after the branch name changes.
> From the local clone of the repository on a computer,
> run the following commands to update the name of the default branch.
>
> $ git branch -m master main
> $ git fetch origin
> $ git branch -u origin/main main
>
> Apart from that, you should update any local script or command that uses
> the name "master" to use the name "main".
>
> Regards from windy London,
> Pablo Galindo Salgado
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[Python-Dev] [Release management] schedule for renaming the default branch

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Hi,

I am writing on behalf of the Python Release Management team. The Steering
Council has requested the RM team to schedule
and perform the necessary changes to rename the default branch from master
to main.

# The changes

What follows is the technical description of the changes and the timeline.
In order to keep this thread focused on this particular
aspect, if you wish to discuss anything related to the change itself,
please, open a new email thread or reuse an existing one.

   - The change will be executed ***when beta 1 is released***, as the beta
   1 release requires some branching engineering already
   to create the 3.10 branch and point 3.11 to the new one as well as
   changing CI, buildbots...etc **
*This is scheduled for Monday, 2021-05-03**.*
   - The CI will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
   - The buildbots will be adapted to work with the new "main" branch.
   - Branch protection rules will be adapted.
   - The different bots will be adapted by the respective bot maintainer
   teams.
   - All the URLs that point to master in the README and other places will
   be adapted to point to main instead (notice this is
   not strictly necessary because GitHub redirects automatically).

Notice that the renaming will automatically:


   - Re-target any open pull requests
   - Update any draft releases based on the branch
   - Move any branch protection rules that explicitly reference the old name
   - Show a notice to repository contributors, maintainers, and admins on
   the repository homepage with instructions to update local copies of the
   repository
   - Show a notice to contributors who git push to the old branch
   - Redirect web requests for the old branch name to the new branch name
   - Return a "Moved Permanently" response in API requests for the old
   branch name

Check this  for more information.

# What you need to do?

You just need to update your local clone after the branch name changes.
>From the local clone of the repository on a computer,
run the following commands to update the name of the default branch.

$ git branch -m master main
$ git fetch origin
$ git branch -u origin/main main

Apart from that, you should update any local script or command that uses
the name "master" to use the name "main".

Regards from windy London,
Pablo Galindo Salgado
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Evpok Padding]

Dear all,

Apparently renaming a git branch to follow the general convention is now an
unbearable outrage. It strikes me as a somewhat odd hill to die on, but
okay. However there is a code of conduct that is supposed to be followed
here https://www.python.org/psf/conduct. Let me quote

> Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include: […] Insults,
put downs, or jokes that are based upon stereotypes, that are exclusionary,
or that hold others up for ridicule

If the discussion here can stay civil for changes with far more
repercussions for Python (e.g. controversial PEPs), surely it can stay
civil for this too. So could we all please refrain ourselves from
non-constructive and derogatory comments? If this change actually causes
non-hypothetical issues, let us discuss these instead of resorting to poor
attempts at being cleverly sarcastic.

Best,

E

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 at 12:54, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 08:27:19PM +, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
>
> >The Steering Council discussed renaming the master branch to main and
> >the consensus was that we should do that.
>
> And about time too. Can we now tackle some of the equally pressing use
> of offensive terms that are common in the Python community, starting
> with the name of the language itself?
>
> Pythons are snakes, which is triggering to people with a phobia of
> snakes. About one third of all people, or more than two *billion*
> people, suffer from some level of phobia towards snakes.
>
> The popular "nose" testing framework is a blatant antisemetic and
> neo-nazi dog whistle.
>
> "bool" is named after George Boole, a problematic white man who
> appropriated the culture of both the Middle East and East Asia.
>
> "dict" is confusable with, and is often abbreviated to, an offensive
> word. And don't even get me started with the obvious sexism of "tty".
>
> Unicode is racist because it has unified Chinese, Japanese and Korean
> characters as if they were the same thing, and relegates non-Western
> languages to second class status:
>
>
> https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you-a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name
>
> It also includes a teddy bear symbol, which is named after notorious
> racist and imperialist Theodore Roosevelt, and no less than *six*
> swastika symbols. Also the Cross of Jerusalem, the symbol of such openly
> fascist groups as the Federal State of Austria during the 1930s and the
> Russian far-right extremist organisation the People's National Party.
>
> It even has a symbol for chains, which is associated even more closely
> with slavery than "master".
>
> Speaking of slavery, in the standard library we have ChainMap and
> itertools.chain.
>
> We have the ableist "runpy", and in the random module a function named
> after Vilfredo Pareto, who supported the rule of fascist dictator Benito
> Mussolini. There are the token and tokenize modules, which are offensive
> for their association with both sexist and racist views.
>
> The tarfile module is associated with the racist Uncle Remus stories,
> and a derogatory term for US Blacks.
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/doug-lamborns-tar-baby-quagmire/2011/08/03/gIQAKmXnsI_blog.html
>
> The textwrap module uses a derogatory racist and fatphobic term dozens
> of times.
>
> http://rsdb.org/slur/chunk
>
> Each of these issues are just as important as the "master" issue.
>
>
> --
> Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 08:27:19PM +, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:

>The Steering Council discussed renaming the master branch to main and
>the consensus was that we should do that. 

And about time too. Can we now tackle some of the equally pressing use 
of offensive terms that are common in the Python community, starting 
with the name of the language itself?

Pythons are snakes, which is triggering to people with a phobia of 
snakes. About one third of all people, or more than two *billion* 
people, suffer from some level of phobia towards snakes.

The popular "nose" testing framework is a blatant antisemetic and 
neo-nazi dog whistle.

"bool" is named after George Boole, a problematic white man who 
appropriated the culture of both the Middle East and East Asia.

"dict" is confusable with, and is often abbreviated to, an offensive 
word. And don't even get me started with the obvious sexism of "tty".

Unicode is racist because it has unified Chinese, Japanese and Korean 
characters as if they were the same thing, and relegates non-Western 
languages to second class status:

https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-can-text-you-a-pile-of-poo-but-i-cant-write-my-name

It also includes a teddy bear symbol, which is named after notorious 
racist and imperialist Theodore Roosevelt, and no less than *six* 
swastika symbols. Also the Cross of Jerusalem, the symbol of such openly 
fascist groups as the Federal State of Austria during the 1930s and the 
Russian far-right extremist organisation the People's National Party.

It even has a symbol for chains, which is associated even more closely 
with slavery than "master".

Speaking of slavery, in the standard library we have ChainMap and 
itertools.chain.

We have the ableist "runpy", and in the random module a function named 
after Vilfredo Pareto, who supported the rule of fascist dictator Benito 
Mussolini. There are the token and tokenize modules, which are offensive 
for their association with both sexist and racist views.

The tarfile module is associated with the racist Uncle Remus stories, 
and a derogatory term for US Blacks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/doug-lamborns-tar-baby-quagmire/2011/08/03/gIQAKmXnsI_blog.html

The textwrap module uses a derogatory racist and fatphobic term dozens 
of times.

http://rsdb.org/slur/chunk

Each of these issues are just as important as the "master" issue.


-- 
Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Jeff Allen]

On 10/03/2021 01:30, Inada Naoki wrote:

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:10 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
 wrote:

Anyway, this is yet another SJW non-issue (countries other than US don't have a 
modern history of slavery) so this change is a political
statement rather than has any technical merit.


Yes. If we don't change the name, we need to pay our energy to same
discussion every year.
It is not productive. Let's change the name and stop further discussion.


+1 for this analysis. It is a modern shibboleth, but let's not invite 
people to leave who are reluctant to make the right noises -- that's an 
unfortunate response.


A bit off topic ...

It is surprising to read that slavery is unique to US history. Maybe 
institutionally, amongst large democracies, the US was late to abolish 
it. But even in the UK, where we are proud that decency overcame 
self-interest, peacefully and slightly ahead of the US, in practice it 
remains a problem today. 
(https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/modern-slavery)


Anything directly helpful is likely to be done outside the framework of 
the PSF, and not because we changed a branch name. However, it's odds on 
that those tackling it here are using Python for data science.


Jeff Allen
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[Python-Dev] Re: New name for the development branch [was Steering Council update for February]

[Thomas Wouters]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:41 AM Mark Shannon  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Why choose "main" as a replacement for "master"?
> It's the development branch, shouldn't we call it "development" or "dev"?
>
> We give release branches meaningful names, so why give the development
> branch the not-so-meaningful name "main".
>  From a user's perspective the "main" branch is whatever their version
> of Python is built from.
>

We're not changing the name because of semantic inaccuracies, and at this
point we can't even claim to do it because it's the right thing. We're just
going with the flow here. There is more value in using the conventional
names, and the convention for the replacement of 'master' is clearly 'main'.

-- 
Thomas Wouters 

Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
spread!
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[Python-Dev] Re: New name for the development branch [was Steering Council update for February]

[Antoine Pitrou]

Indeed, if we change the name of the default branch, it should be
something standard, so "main".  Projects with non-standard branch names
are pointlessly annoying to navigate.

Regards

Antoine.


On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:47:11 +0300
Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev  wrote:
> I think 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GDAUZKYB6GP3A3ZGBSQ4KQ7R6QFIZHZC/
>  and 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RE3V6Y7CPHOL6LGPPYSVS3XQFTIQRZ3J/
>  already explained the reasons in 
> sufficient detail -- that "main" is a politically correct replacement for 
> "master" and is supposed to take over as the default branch name 
> in Git.
> 
> I'm against using a nonstandard default branch name because I have firsthand 
> experience with one (in the Multibuild project) and it was 
> really confusing.
> 
> On 10.03.2021 13:36, Mark Shannon wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Why choose "main" as a replacement for "master"?
> > It's the development branch, shouldn't we call it "development" or "dev"?
> >
> > We give release branches meaningful names, so why give the development 
> > branch the not-so-meaningful name "main".
> > From a user's perspective the "main" branch is whatever their version of 
> > Python is built from.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark.
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> 



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[Python-Dev] Re: New name for the development branch [was Steering Council update for February]

[Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev]

I think https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GDAUZKYB6GP3A3ZGBSQ4KQ7R6QFIZHZC/ and 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RE3V6Y7CPHOL6LGPPYSVS3XQFTIQRZ3J/ already explained the reasons in 
sufficient detail -- that "main" is a politically correct replacement for "master" and is supposed to take over as the default branch name 
in Git.


I'm against using a nonstandard default branch name because I have firsthand experience with one (in the Multibuild project) and it was 
really confusing.


On 10.03.2021 13:36, Mark Shannon wrote:

Hi,

Why choose "main" as a replacement for "master"?
It's the development branch, shouldn't we call it "development" or "dev"?

We give release branches meaningful names, so why give the development branch the 
not-so-meaningful name "main".
From a user's perspective the "main" branch is whatever their version of Python 
is built from.

Cheers,
Mark.
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--
Regards,
Ivan

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[Python-Dev] New name for the development branch [was Steering Council update for February]

[Mark Shannon]

Hi,

Why choose "main" as a replacement for "master"?
It's the development branch, shouldn't we call it "development" or "dev"?

We give release branches meaningful names, so why give the development 
branch the not-so-meaningful name "main".
From a user's perspective the "main" branch is whatever their version 
of Python is built from.


Cheers,
Mark.
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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 11:14:26 +0100
Christian Heimes  wrote:
> On 10/03/2021 10.30, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:30:43 +0900
> > Inada Naoki  wrote:  
> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:10 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
> >>  wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> On 10.03.2021 3:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:47 AM Damian Shaw
>   wrote:
> >> Does 'master' confuse people?
> > There's a general movement to replace language from common programming 
> > practises that derive from, or are associated with, the dehumanization 
> > of people. Such as master and slave, as well as whitelist and blacklist.
> >
>  Is that *actually* the origin of the term in this context, or is it
>  the "master", the pristine, the original from which copies are made?
>  There's no "slave" branch anywhere in the git repository.
> >>>
> >>> It is, actually, the ultimate origin of the term.
> >>>
> >>> A more immediate origin is the master-slave architecture (the master 
> >>> agent initiates some operation and slave agents respond to it and/or
> >>> carry it out).
> >>>
> >>
> >> Petr Baudis (who named "master" branch) says its origin is "master
> >> recording". So it is unrelated to master-slave.
> >> https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441  
> > 
> > And the origin of the English word is the latin noun "magister":
> > https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/magister#Latin  
> 
> Words change meaning.

Definitely.  But if one wants to make a historical argument, it cannot
stop at one point in history ;-)

In any case, "main" (or hg's "default") is certainly a better
generic word for the concept than "master".  Whether or not it's worth
breaking many pieces of automation out there I'm skeptical about.

Regards

Antoine.


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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Christian Heimes]

On 10/03/2021 10.30, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:30:43 +0900
> Inada Naoki  wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:10 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10.03.2021 3:53, Chris Angelico wrote:  
 On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:47 AM Damian Shaw
  wrote:  
>> Does 'master' confuse people?  
> There's a general movement to replace language from common programming 
> practises that derive from, or are associated with, the dehumanization of 
> people. Such as master and slave, as well as whitelist and blacklist.
>  
 Is that *actually* the origin of the term in this context, or is it
 the "master", the pristine, the original from which copies are made?
 There's no "slave" branch anywhere in the git repository.  
>>>
>>> It is, actually, the ultimate origin of the term.
>>>
>>> A more immediate origin is the master-slave architecture (the master agent 
>>> initiates some operation and slave agents respond to it and/or
>>> carry it out).
>>>  
>>
>> Petr Baudis (who named "master" branch) says its origin is "master
>> recording". So it is unrelated to master-slave.
>> https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441
> 
> And the origin of the English word is the latin noun "magister":
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/magister#Latin

Words change meaning.

For example take the word "dumb". It used to mean "mute" or
"speechless". Ableism turned its meaning into "stupid" /
"nonintellectual" as people equated speaking/hearing disability with
mental disability.

Fun fact: German language adopted the new meaning while Dutch language
kept the original meaning of the word. In German phrase "Bist du doof?"
translates to "Are you dumb?" while the Dutch sentence "Ben je doof"
means "Are you deaf?". I grew up close to the border of the Netherlands
and had a friend who's little brother was deaf. This caused some
confusing on my side when he told a Dutch person "mijn broer is doof".



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[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:30:43 +0900
Inada Naoki  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 10:10 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev
>  wrote:
> >
> > On 10.03.2021 3:53, Chris Angelico wrote:  
> > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 11:47 AM Damian Shaw
> > >  wrote:  
> > >>> Does 'master' confuse people?  
> > >> There's a general movement to replace language from common programming 
> > >> practises that derive from, or are associated with, the dehumanization 
> > >> of people. Such as master and slave, as well as whitelist and blacklist.
> > >>  
> > > Is that *actually* the origin of the term in this context, or is it
> > > the "master", the pristine, the original from which copies are made?
> > > There's no "slave" branch anywhere in the git repository.  
> >
> > It is, actually, the ultimate origin of the term.
> >
> > A more immediate origin is the master-slave architecture (the master agent 
> > initiates some operation and slave agents respond to it and/or
> > carry it out).
> >  
> 
> Petr Baudis (who named "master" branch) says its origin is "master
> recording". So it is unrelated to master-slave.
> https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441

And the origin of the English word is the latin noun "magister":
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/magister#Latin

Regards

Antoine.


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