date:20130930

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Neil Cerutti ne...@norwich.edu wrote:
 On 2013-09-28, Zero Piraeus z...@etiol.net wrote:
:

 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Mark Lawrence 
 breamore...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:
  You actually need the tool that was used on King Edward II.

 To be clear, Mark, you are calling for ?? to be tortured to death
 with a red hot poker, yes?

 I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that such a suggestion is
 outside what people generally consider acceptable on this list.

 It's reassuring that even a guy like Nikos has his White Knights.

Ahoy! Ahoy! Check!

Actually, it's more that even those of us who will put him down
verbally don't actually want to see him tortured to death. I've
strongly recommended that he either shape up or ship out (learn to
code or get out of programming as a business), but that doesn't in any
way mean I would rejoice at his death.

But he is annoying. Very annoying. And I completely understand the
frustration that leads people to want him to suffer great pain.

ChrisA
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Re: CRUD library

2013-09-30 Thread memilanuk


On 09/30/2013 03:14 AM, AdamKal wrote:

Hi,

Do you know any library or framework that unifies CRUD somehow.



Sounds kind of like the DAL (Data Abstaction Layer/Language) from 
web2py, perhaps?  I think I've heard of it being able to be used outside 
a regular web2py install... not sure, haven't tried it myself.


HTH,

Monte


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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

2013-09-30 Thread William Ray Wing

On Sep 30, 2013, at 7:42 AM, Michel Albert exh...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 ``socket.gethostbyname`` sends the DNS resolution query to the DNS server 
 specified by the OS. Is there an easy way to send a query to a *different* 
 server?
 
 I see that twisted.names allows you to do this, but, having all of twisted as 
 dependency to my project when all I need to do is a simple DNS query seems a 
 bit extreme. I also found pydns, but that looks fairly outdated and 
 unmaintained.
 
 Is there not an actively maintained lightweight solution? If not, I will go 
 with twisted.
 
 
 Cheers,
 Mich.
 -- 
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

It isn't pure python, but you would be pretty much guaranteed a maintained 
solution if you use the name server lookup in your OS.  Something like:

import subprocess
nsl_reslt = subprocess.Popen(['nslookup', 'insert name nere' ],stderr 
= subprocess.PIPE, stdout = subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]


Hope this helps,
Bill
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Re: class implementation

2013-09-30 Thread markotaht

under variables, i mean, the int's and lists and strings and floats that the 
parent class uses. IF in parent class there is variable called location, then 
can i use the same variable in my sub class.

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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

2013-09-30 Thread Michel Albert

On Monday, 30 September 2013 14:36:34 UTC+2, William Ray Wing  wrote:
 On Sep 30, 2013, at 7:42 AM, Michel Albert *** wrote:
 
 
 
  Hi,
 
  
 
  ``socket.gethostbyname`` sends the DNS resolution query to the DNS server 
  specified by the OS. Is there an easy way to send a query to a *different* 
  server?
 
  
 
  I see that twisted.names allows you to do this, but, having all of twisted 
  as dependency to my project when all I need to do is a simple DNS query 
  seems a bit extreme. I also found pydns, but that looks fairly outdated and 
  unmaintained.
 
  
 
  Is there not an actively maintained lightweight solution? If not, I will go 
  with twisted.
 
  
 
  
 
  Cheers,
 
  Mich.
 
  -- 
 
  https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 
 
 
 It isn't pure python, but you would be pretty much guaranteed a maintained 
 solution if you use the name server lookup in your OS.  Something like:
 
 
 
   import subprocess
 
   nsl_reslt = subprocess.Popen(['nslookup', 'insert name nere' ],stderr 
 = subprocess.PIPE, stdout = subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]
 
 
 
 
 
 Hope this helps,
 
 Bill

Hmm... I had this option in mind, but opening a subprocess for something as 
small as this seemed a bit error-prone. If something on the system changes, 
nslookup replaced by dig or nslookup output changes for example your 
application will bug out.

Granted, the chance of this happening is slim, but using a fixed-version 
dependency in your setup script gives you a much safer solution IMO.

I know I may be splitting hairs. Any of the mentioned solutions are fine. But I 
am curious to see if something like this is not yet implemented in a more 
standard way. I was surprised to see that ``gethostbyname`` does not take an 
optional parameter for this task.
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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

2013-09-30 Thread Ervin Hegedüs

Hello,

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 04:42:29AM -0700, Michel Albert wrote:
 Hi,
 
 ``socket.gethostbyname`` sends the DNS resolution query to the DNS server 
 specified by the OS. Is there an easy way to send a query to a *different* 
 server?
 
 I see that twisted.names allows you to do this, but, having all of twisted as 
 dependency to my project when all I need to do is a simple DNS query seems a 
 bit extreme. I also found pydns, but that looks fairly outdated and 
 unmaintained.
 
 Is there not an actively maintained lightweight solution? If not, I will go 
 with twisted.
 

there is a dns modul for Python (I don't know is it part of
standard Python library or not), on most Linux distribution you
can find it, eg. in Debian it's called python-dnspython.

It can handle different nameserver, than OS knows - here is a
sample code:


import dns.resolver

r = dns.resolver.Resolver()
r.namerservers =  ['127.0.0.1']
# or any other IP, in my case I'm using PDNS, which have two
# parts: a recursor and a resolver; recursor allows requests only
# on localhost

mxservers = r.query(python.org, 'MX').response




hth,


a.

 
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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Michel Albert exh...@gmail.com wrote:
 I know I may be splitting hairs. Any of the mentioned solutions are fine. But 
 I am curious to see if something like this is not yet implemented in a more 
 standard way. I was surprised to see that ``gethostbyname`` does not take an 
 optional parameter for this task.

gethostbyname is a simple function with not much flexibility. (You
can't, for instance, look up a TXT record.) For anything more complex,
you want a proper DNS implementation.

There are a few Python DNS modules. It means adding another
dependency, but perhaps not as large as twisted. And of course, you
could always manually send UDP packets and listen for responses, but
that seems a little unnecessary :)

ChrisA
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Re: Handling 3 operands in an expression without raising an exception

2013-09-30 Thread Neil Cerutti

On 2013-09-30, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
  You actually need the tool that was used on King Edward
  II.

 To be clear, Mark, you are calling for ?? to be
 tortured to death with a red hot poker, yes?

 I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that such a
 suggestion is outside what people generally consider
 acceptable on this list.

 It's reassuring that even a guy like Nikos has his White
 Knights.

 Ahoy! Ahoy! Check!

 Actually, it's more that even those of us who will put him down
 verbally don't actually want to see him tortured to death. I've
 strongly recommended that he either shape up or ship out (learn to
 code or get out of programming as a business), but that doesn't in any
 way mean I would rejoice at his death.

This makes perfect sense. It's be sort of like being one of the
police in Dallas protecting Oswald; it's from a sense of duty,
rather than a generally sincere love.

 But he is annoying. Very annoying. And I completely understand
 the frustration that leads people to want him to suffer great
 pain.

I don't want him to suffer great pain, but it would please me if
it were possible to annoy him in some way. Like maybe with the
sound of a mosquito. B! BzZ!

-- 
Neil Cerutti
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Re: class implementation

2013-09-30 Thread Peter Otten

markot...@gmail.com wrote:

 under variables, i mean, the int's and lists and strings and floats that
 the parent class uses. IF in parent class there is variable called
 location, then can i use the same variable in my sub class.

Please show us some code. Thankyou. 

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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

2013-09-30 Thread Michel Albert

On Monday, 30 September 2013 14:54:41 UTC+2, Ervin Hegedüs  wrote:
 Hello,
 
 
 
 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 04:42:29AM -0700, Michel Albert wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  
 
  ``socket.gethostbyname`` sends the DNS resolution query to the DNS server 
  specified by the OS. Is there an easy way to send a query to a *different* 
  server?
 
  
 
  I see that twisted.names allows you to do this, but, having all of twisted 
  as dependency to my project when all I need to do is a simple DNS query 
  seems a bit extreme. I also found pydns, but that looks fairly outdated and 
  unmaintained.
 
  
 
  Is there not an actively maintained lightweight solution? If not, I will go 
  with twisted.
 
  
 
 
 
 there is a dns modul for Python (I don't know is it part of
 
 standard Python library or not), on most Linux distribution you
 
 can find it, eg. in Debian it's called python-dnspython.
 
 
 
 It can handle different nameserver, than OS knows - here is a
 
 sample code:
 
 
 
 
 
 import dns.resolver
 
 
 
 r = dns.resolver.Resolver()
 
 r.namerservers =  ['127.0.0.1']
 
 # or any other IP, in my case I'm using PDNS, which have two
 
 # parts: a recursor and a resolver; recursor allows requests only
 
 # on localhost
 
 
 
 mxservers = r.query(python.org, 'MX').response
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 hth,
 
 
 
 
 
 a.


Indeed, this looks much nicer than both twisted or pydns. I think I'll go with 
that one. Thanks a lot!
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Re: class implementation

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Peter Otten __pete...@web.de wrote:

 markot...@gmail.com wrote:

  under variables, i mean, the int's and lists and strings and floats that
  the parent class uses. IF in parent class there is variable called
  location, then can i use the same variable in my sub class.

 Please show us some code. Thankyou.

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You should start by learning about classes -- perhaps here:
http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/classes.html#classes

Then, try writing some code using classes or extending a class.  Then come
back when something doesn't work as expected

-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
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Re: DNS query against a specific server.

2013-09-30 Thread Gisle Vanem


Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:


There are a few Python DNS modules. It means adding another
dependency, but perhaps not as large as twisted. And of course, you
could always manually send UDP packets and listen for responses, but
that seems a little unnecessary :)


Then there is pycares; a Python module which provides an interface to 
c-ares c-ares is a C library that performs DNS requests and name resolves 
asynchronously.. I have good experience wih C-ares and it can set

specific nameservers. Ref:
 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pycares/0.3.0

--gv
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

2013-09-30 Thread Grant Edwards

On 2013-09-29, ?? nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
  29/9/2013 10:53 , ??/?? Chris Angelico :

 You fail to understand that these code i now use was written with the 
 help of regulars here and yes its correct.

If you're code is correct, then use it and be happy.

There's no need to bother us if your code is correct.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Can I have an IMPULSE
  at   ITEM instead?
  gmail.com
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Re: what is wrong in my code?? (python 3.3)

2013-09-30 Thread dream4soul

On Friday, September 27, 2013 7:19:45 PM UTC+3, Denis McMahon wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 06:54:48 -0700, dream4soul wrote:
 
 
 
  #!c:/Python33/python.exe -u
 
  import os, sys 
 
  print(Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8\n\n)
 
  print ('Hello, world!hr')
 
  print('ранее предусматривалась смертная казнь.')
 
 
 
  I see only first print, second it just question marks in my browser(code
 
  edited in notepad++ with UTF-8 encode). what is wrong??
 
 
 
 Sounds like your browser is ignoring the charset. Can you force the 
 
 browser to utf-8?
 
 
 
 What happens if you create a plain html file with the same content and 
 
 send it to your browser?
 
 
 
 eg: test.html:
 
 -
 
 Hello, world!hr
 
 ранее предусматривалась смертная казнь.
 
 -
 
 
 
 This really doesn't look like a python issue (again).
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com

I rename file from test.py in test.txt and all works fine. So clearly problem 
it is not in file coding or browser. ANY IDEAS??
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Using GNU libc mtrace/muntrace via ctypes?

2013-09-30 Thread Skip Montanaro

I'm getting an error in certain situations which leads to this message:

*** glibc detected *** /opt/TWWfsw/bin/python: corrupted double-linked
list: 0x07952420 ***

Valgrind hasn't been any help. I'd really like to avoid recompiling
Python, as that might just move or obscure the error. Might it be
possible to enable the GNU libc malloc tracing via ctypes?

Thanks,

Skip
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 29/09/2013 17:19, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 29/9/2013 7:14 μμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

asked and answered.  Move on


shut up. you are nothign but annoyance here.


Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a 
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


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Mark Lawrence

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RE: Barcode printing

2013-09-30 Thread Joseph L. Casale

If that's a bit heavyweight (and confusing; it's not all free software,
since some of it is under non-free license terms), there are other
options.

pyBarcode URL:http://pythonhosted.org/pyBarcode/ says it's a
pure-Python library that takes a barcode type and the value, and
generates an SVG of the barcode.

Actually,
The canvas concept is exactly what I need and this is perfect!

Thanks Gary and Ben,
jlc
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 14:51, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2013-09-29, ?? nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

 29/9/2013 10:53 , ??/?? Chris Angelico :

You fail to understand that these code i now use was written with the
help of regulars here and yes its correct.


If you're code is correct, then use it and be happy.

There's no need to bother us if your code is correct.



Could this be an extremely rare case whereby the original code is 100% 
correct but the problems have been exacerbated by the many suggested 
patches given here being 100% incorrect?


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Mark Lawrence

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fetchall to python lists

2013-09-30 Thread christensen . jerome

Hi - I have some basic programming experience and new to Python. I have 
connected to SQL Server as follows:

import pyodbc
conn = pyodbc.connect('DSN=DBC')
cursor = conn.cursor()
cursor.execute(select measure,fin_year_no,fin_week_no,location_no,value from 
actual)
result=cursor.fetchall()

result looks like this:



result[0] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35)
result[1] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 502, 18444.2)
 approximately 2m records

Is there a way to assign the values of result to 5 lists without doing 5 select 
statments one for each of the colums and then assigning it to a list so that:

list1[0] = '2013'
list1[1] = 2014
list1[2] = 7
list1[3] = 242
list1[4] = 96064.35

list2[0] = '2013'
list2[1] = 2014
list2[2] = 7
list2[3] = 502
list2[4] = 18444.2

and so on ...

Hope someone can help. Regards Jerome
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Re: Handling 3 operands in an expression without raising an exception


On 29/09/2013 18:44, MRAB wrote:

On 29/09/2013 18:24, Piet van Oostrum wrote:

Antoon Pardon antoon.par...@rece.vub.ac.be writes:


Why? What is so important about this particular way, that you are
willing to spend/waste so much time on it? You act like someone
who want to get from Brussels to London and when asked how to
do that gets advise on how to take the boat or plane at which
point you react that you want to get to Londen without boat
or plane but just by bicycle. And in further exchange make it
clear that using a bike is more important than arriving in London.


And then the easiests would be to put your bicycle in the train.


But what if you don't want to use the train, but cycle all the way?
There _must_ be a way of cycling through the tunnel...


There is but all the illegal immigrants who use it won't tell us about 
it :)


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Mark Lawrence

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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 On 30/09/2013 14:51, Grant Edwards wrote:

 On 2013-09-29, ?? nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

  29/9/2013 10:53 , ??/?? Chris Angelico :

 You fail to understand that these code i now use was written with the
 help of regulars here and yes its correct.


 If you're code is correct, then use it and be happy.

 There's no need to bother us if your code is correct.


 Could this be an extremely rare case whereby the original code is 100%
 correct but the problems have been exacerbated by the many suggested patches
 given here being 100% incorrect?

Jests and barbs left aside, I believe his definition of correct is
wasn't crashing. Earlier in this thread there was a hint that he'd
tightened a bare except to one specific exception. My guess is his
code wasn't correct, but one bug (overly-broad try/except) masked
another.

ChrisA
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Re: Handling 3 operands in an expression without raising an exception


On 29/09/2013 22:15, Denis McMahon wrote:


Nick, you have now spent 4 days arguing over a minor coding problem that
you were given solutions to on the first day, primarily because you feel
that the solutions you are being offend some programming aesthetic you
have.

I suggest that it's time for you to re-evaluate what you want from this
ng, and indeed what language you want to code in if your perl minimal
code possible aesthetic is so important to you.

If you want good python code, then stop telling everyone here that their
working solutions are wrong and should be more like your dysfunctional
code, and use the solutions you are given.

If you want to write minimalist perl code, then stop using python and use
perl.

In either case, you need to stop arguing with people who are offering you
solutions to your problems solely based on the fact that you don't like
their coding styles.

You are the one who comes here asking for solutions. Either accept the
solutions you are offered, or stop asking for them.



+googol

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Re: fetchall to python lists

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, christensen.jer...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi - I have some basic programming experience and new to Python. I have
 connected to SQL Server as follows:

 import pyodbc
 conn = pyodbc.connect('DSN=DBC')
 cursor = conn.cursor()
 cursor.execute(select measure,fin_year_no,fin_week_no,location_no,value
 from actual)
 result=cursor.fetchall()

 result looks like this:



 result[0] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35)
 result[1] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 502, 18444.2)
  approximately 2m records

 Is there a way to assign the values of result to 5 lists without doing 5
 select statments one for each of the colums and then assigning it to a list
 so that:


What you have below is just result[0][0], result[0][1], etc.


list1[0] = '2013'
 list1[1] = 2014
 list1[2] = 7
 list1[3] = 242
 list1[4] = 96064.35

 list2[0] = '2013'
 list2[1] = 2014
 list2[2] = 7
 list2[3] = 502
 list2[4] = 18444.2

 and so on ...

 Hope someone can help. Regards Jerome


So what I'm trying to say is that you already have what you want.  each
tuple is contained in the out list of all of the tuples.

For brevity sake, I am acting as if the data set contained only a single
row:

 result =  (('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35),)
 result
(('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35),)
 result[0]
('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35)
 result[0][0]
'2013'
 result[0][1]
2014

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-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
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Re: fetchall to python lists

2013-09-30 Thread christensen . jerome

On Monday, September 30, 2013 4:58:25 PM UTC+2, christens...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi - I have some basic programming experience and new to Python. I have 
 connected to SQL Server as follows:
 
 
 
 import pyodbc
 
 conn = pyodbc.connect('DSN=DBC')
 
 cursor = conn.cursor()
 
 cursor.execute(select measure,fin_year_no,fin_week_no,location_no,value from 
 actual)
 
 result=cursor.fetchall()
 
 
 
 result looks like this:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 result[0] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 242, 96064.35)
 
 result[1] - ('2013', 2014, 7, 502, 18444.2)
 
  approximately 2m records
 
 
 
 Is there a way to assign the values of result to 5 lists without doing 5 
 select statments one for each of the colums and then assigning it to a list 
 so that:
 
 
 
 list1[0] = '2013'
 
 list1[1] = 2014
 
 list1[2] = 7
 
 list1[3] = 242
 
 list1[4] = 96064.35
 
 
 
 list2[0] = '2013'
 
 list2[1] = 2014
 
 list2[2] = 7
 
 list2[3] = 502
 
 list2[4] = 18444.2
 
 
 
 and so on ...
 
 
 
 Hope someone can help. Regards Jerome

Thanks Joel did not think it could be so simple!!!
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Re: Restart the interactive python shell like in IDLE

2013-09-30 Thread Ricardo Abreu

On Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:48:42 AM UTC+2, Chris Rebert wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Matt Bursonmsbur...@gmail.com wrote:
  Is there a way to reproduce the behavior of IDLE's restart shell ability by
  using a function? I thought there would be since you can exit python by
  executing the simple quit() function I thought there would be an equally
  simple function name something like restart(). I'd prefer something like
  this as opposed to having to exit the shell and then start it up again to
  refresh it.
 
 I believe IDLE itself implements the restart capability by killing
 and re-launching its Python interpreter subprocess, so it's not like
 it's using some hidden capability of Python to accomplish this.
 Is doing Ctrl+D, up-arrow, Enter really that hard? It's even fewer
 keystrokes than restart()...
 
 Cheers,
 Chris
 -- 
 http://blog.rebertia.com

You might be launching python from something else other than a shell and it 
might be harder to re-launch it from there
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VERY BASIC HELP

2013-09-30 Thread vignesh . harikrishna

c=int(raw_input(How many numbers do you want to work? (Min. 2 Max. 3)))
if c==2:
x=int(raw_input(Enter the first number to be worked))
y=int(raw_input(Enter the second number to be worked))
elif c==3:
x=int(raw_input(Enter the first number to be worked))
y=int(raw_input(Enter the second number to be worked))
z=int(raw_input(Enter the third number to be worked))
else:
print Invalid input.;raw_input(Press enter to close this window);exit 
   
p=int(raw_input(Do you want to divide, subtract, add or multiply these 
numbers? (1=divide, 2=subtract, 3=add, 4=multiply)))
if p==1 and c==2:
print The result is : ;x/y
elif p==1 and c==3:
print The result is :;x/y/z
elif p==2 and c==2:
print The result is :;x-y
elif p==2 and c==3:
print The result is :;x-y-z
elif p==3 and c==2:
print The result is :;x+y
elif p==3 and c==3:
print The result is :;x+y+z
elif p==4 and c==2:
print The result is :;x*y
elif p==4 and c==3:
print The result is :;x*y*z   
else:
print Invalid Input.;raw_input(Press enter to close this window)






That is my program. These are the problems I am having : 

1. Even if c is not 2 or 3, the program continues, as if it received a valid 
input, it does not exit as I have tried to code it to.
2. If all values are entered correctly, the result does not display. It shows 
up as The result is : and just blank.

PLEASE HELP
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Re: Functional Programming and python

2013-09-30 Thread Franck Ditter

In article ba94102b-18b6-4850-ac85-032b0fe2f...@googlegroups.com,
rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:

Combining your two questions -- Recently:
What minimum should a person know before saying I know Python

And earlier this
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:00:35 PM UTC+5:30, Aseem Bansal wrote:
If there is an issue in place for improving the lambda forms then that's
good. I wanted a link about functional programming because it is mentioned
as
if it were a household word.

Python is not a functional programming language; however it supports most of
FP better than traditional languages like C/Java.
eg with iterators/generators + itertools + functools you can do most of what
lazy lists give in haskell

Some discussion here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1017621/why-isnt-python-very-good-for-functional-programming

[Not everything said there is correct; eg python supports currying better
than haskell which is surprising considering that Haskell's surname is Curry!]

So if I may break your question into two:
1. Why should a programmer of a non-FP language know FP?
2. What in FP should a (any|all) programmer know?

I touched upon these in two blog-posts:
1. http://blog.languager.org/2013/06/functional-programming-invades.html
2. http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/functional-programming-lost-booty.html

Also most programmers without an FP background have a poor appreciation of
the centrality of recursion in CS; see
http://blog.languager.org/2012/05/recursion-pervasive-in-cs.html

Good approach of FP in Python, but two points make me crazy :
1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is known
technology (since 1960).
And don't answer with good programmers don't use recursion, this is bullshit.
2. Lambda-expression body is limited to one expression. Why ?
Why the hell those limitations ? In this aspect, Javascript has a cooler
approach.

franck
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Re: VERY BASIC HELP

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 2:55 AM,  vignesh.harikris...@gmail.com wrote:
 print Invalid input.;raw_input(Press enter to close this 
 window);exit

 1. Even if c is not 2 or 3, the program continues, as if it received a valid 
 input, it does not exit as I have tried to code it to.

In Python, exit isn't a statement, it's a function. So you need to write:

exit()

to actually terminate.

 elif p==3 and c==3:
 print The result is :;x+y+z
 2. If all values are entered correctly, the result does not display. It shows 
 up as The result is : and just blank.

The semicolon ends the print statement, and then you simply evaluate
and do nothing with the sum. Try a comma instead - that'll make it a
second argument to print, so it'll be printed out as you expect.

Thank you for making your problem so clear. You've given your code,
and you've said exactly what it's doing that you don't expect. I
really appreciate that! But one thing I would ask: Next time, please
consider your subject line. That's the first chance you have to grab
someone's attention - VERY BASIC HELP doesn't say _what_ you need
help with. :) Your post makes a nice change from some I've seen,
though...

Have fun, happy Pythoning!

ChrisA
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Re: Functional Programming and python

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 AM, Franck Ditter nob...@nowhere.org wrote:
 1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is known 
 technology (since 1960).
 And don't answer with good programmers don't use recursion, this is 
 bullshit.

I've yet to see any value in having the compiler/interpreter optimize
tail recursion that can't be achieved just as well, and usually more
clearly, with simple iteration. Recursion's important; tail
recursion's important; tail recursion optimization isn't. (But I do
sometimes yearn for a goto.)

 2. Lambda-expression body is limited to one expression. Why ?
 Why the hell those limitations ? In this aspect, Javascript has a cooler 
 approach.

Since you can just use def in the middle of another function, the
difference between def and lambda isn't all that huge. Yes, def isn't
an expression - but Python's lambda gives an incredibly compact
notation for the common case. Compare these two snippets:

# Python
odd_numbers = filter(lambda x: x%2, numbers)

//Pike
odd_numbers = filter(numbers, lambda(int x) {return x%2;})

Aside from the type declaration and the argument order, these two
snippets are doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same way.
Python's version is way more compact. Pike's version lets you put
multiple statements into the expression... but most of the time you
don't need that. Both approaches have their value.

ChrisA
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Re: VERY BASIC HELP

2013-09-30 Thread John Gordon

In 380132bc-bc9c-4d57-95d8-dc01f26f4...@googlegroups.com 
vignesh.harikris...@gmail.com writes:

 c=int(raw_input(How many numbers do you want to work? (Min. 2 Max. 3)))
 if c==2:
 x=int(raw_input(Enter the first number to be worked))
 y=int(raw_input(Enter the second number to be worked))
 elif c==3:
 x=int(raw_input(Enter the first number to be worked))
 y=int(raw_input(Enter the second number to be worked))
 z=int(raw_input(Enter the third number to be worked))
 else:
 print Invalid input.;raw_input(Press enter to close this 
 window);exit
 p=int(raw_input(Do you want to divide, subtract, add or multiply these 
 numbers? (1=divide, 2=subtract, 3=add, 4=multiply)))
 if p==1 and c==2:
 print The result is : ;x/y
 elif p==1 and c==3:
 print The result is :;x/y/z
 elif p==2 and c==2:
 print The result is :;x-y
 elif p==2 and c==3:
 print The result is :;x-y-z
 elif p==3 and c==2:
 print The result is :;x+y
 elif p==3 and c==3:
 print The result is :;x+y+z
 elif p==4 and c==2:
 print The result is :;x*y
 elif p==4 and c==3:
 print The result is :;x*y*z   
 else:
 print Invalid Input.;raw_input(Press enter to close this window)

 That is my program. These are the problems I am having : 

 1. Even if c is not 2 or 3, the program continues, as if it received a
 valid input, it does not exit as I have tried to code it to.

That's because your code is this:

exit

instead of this:

exit()

In other words, you're referring to the exit function, but not actually
calling it.

 2. If all values are entered correctly, the result does not display. It
 shows up as The result is : and just blank.

That's because you're using a semicolon after the print statement.

This code is really two completely separate statements:

print The result is : ;x/y

It prints the message and then, as a separate action, it calculates the
value of x/y (and then throws that value away, because it isn't assigned
anywhere.)

Use a comma instead of a semicolon, like this:

print The result is : , x/y

-- 
John Gordon   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gor...@panix.com  B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies

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Re: class implementation

2013-09-30 Thread Piet van Oostrum

markot...@gmail.com writes:

 under variables, i mean, the int's and lists and strings and floats that the 
 parent class uses. IF in parent class there is variable called location, then 
 can i use the same variable in my sub class.

Do you mean class variables or instance variables?

-- 
Piet van Oostrum p...@vanoostrum.org
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]
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Re: VERY BASIC HELP

2013-09-30 Thread vignesh . harikrishna

Thank you both so much! I'll be sure to make more pertinent subject lines now 
:) Thanks for the detailed explanations! Clearly, I've just started learning 
this language ~20 minutes before I made this post, and am still learning the 
basics. Do you guys know of any guides for a beginner? I am definitely willing 
to take the time to learn in depth :)
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Re: what is wrong in my code?? (python 3.3)

2013-09-30 Thread Piet van Oostrum

dream4s...@gmail.com writes:

 I rename file from test.py in test.txt and all works fine. So clearly problem 
 it is not in file coding or browser. ANY IDEAS??

It looks like the encoding of stdout is not utf-8 in the CGI script. Check it 
with

import sys
print(sys.stdout.encoding)

If it's not utf-8, you must force your output to be utf-8, as that is what the 
browser expects, because of your Content-type.

You could use: 
sys.stdout.buffer.write('ранее предусматривалась смертная 
казнь.'.encode('utf-8'))

Or to change stdout into utf-8 encoding:

import codecs
sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter(utf-8)(sys.stdout.detach())

[Note: I haven't tested this]
-- 
Piet van Oostrum p...@vanoostrum.org
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 29/09/2013 17:19, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 29/9/2013 7:14 μμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

asked and answered.  Move on


shut up. you are nothign but annoyance here.


Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.
Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your 
funny quotes.

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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Op 30-09-13 20:03, Νίκος schreef:

Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 29/09/2013 17:19, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 29/9/2013 7:14 μμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

asked and answered.  Move on


shut up. you are nothign but annoyance here.


Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.


You may like porgramming, but it is rather obvious you don't like
the python style of programming. So maybe you should chose a
laguage whose style is more to your liking.


Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your
funny quotes.


You have no authority over what people contribute in your thread. Since
you don't seem very considerate about the effect your contributions have
on others, you can hardly expect others to be considerate of you.

--
Antoon Pardon
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Re: Functional Programming and python

2013-09-30 Thread Neil Cerutti

On 2013-09-30, Franck Ditter nob...@nowhere.org wrote:
 In article ba94102b-18b6-4850-ac85-032b0fe2f...@googlegroups.com,
  rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I touched upon these in two blog-posts:
 1. http://blog.languager.org/2013/06/functional-programming-invades.html
 2. http://blog.languager.org/2012/10/functional-programming-lost-booty.html
 
 Also most programmers without an FP background have a poor
 appreciation of the centrality of recursion in CS; see
 http://blog.languager.org/2012/05/recursion-pervasive-in-cs.html

 Good approach of FP in Python, but two points make me crazy :
 1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This
 is known technology (since 1960). And don't answer with good
 programmers don't use recursion, this is bullshit.

If you've got a set of recursive functions with recursive calls
in tail-call position it's pretty easy to convert to a solution
that doesn't blow the stack. Converting to a while loop is
usually straightforward, or you try trampolining.

If the calls aren't in tail-call position then you wouldn't get
tail-call optimization from a language like scheme, either.

Getting calls in tail position is often the sticking point, and
tail-call optimization doesn't help with that.

I think the Python rationale also discusses how it would make
tracebacks harder to understand if stackframes could clobber each
other. Personally I think that's more a theoretical than a
practical problem. Languages with tail-call optimization aren't
impossible to debug.

 2. Lambda-expression body is limited to one expression. Why ?
 Why the hell those limitations ? In this aspect, Javascript has
 a cooler approach.

It's in the Design and History FAQ.

http://docs.python.org/3/faq/design.html

Why cant lambda forms contain statements?

Python lambda forms cannot contain statements because
Pythons syntactic framework cant handle statements nested
inside expressions. However, in Python, this is not a serious
problem. Unlike lambda forms in other languages, where they
add functionality, Python lambdas are only a shorthand
notation if youre too lazy to define a function.

Functions are already first class objects in Python, and can
be declared in a local scope. Therefore the only advantage of
using a lambda form instead of a locally-defined function is
that you dont need to invent a name for the function  but
thats just a local variable to which the function object
(which is exactly the same type of object that a lambda form
yields) is assigned!

What I usually end up with is a dictionary of callbacks, with the
simple functions defined in-line and the more complex functions
defined just before that and referenced instead.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 19:03, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 29/09/2013 17:19, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 29/9/2013 7:14 μμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

asked and answered.  Move on


shut up. you are nothign but annoyance here.


Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.
Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your
funny quotes.


Your approach as given in the pseudocode given below is taking up what, 
50% of the bandwidth here?  What a waste of a resource.


while answer_isn't_what_I_want:
   keep_asking_question()

You are to this mailing list what King Herod was to baby sitting.

Please drop dead and the sooner the better.  Your arrogant attitide to 
the numerous people who've tried so hard to help you is disgraceful.


--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 9/30/13 2:42 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
Please drop dead and the sooner the better.  Your arrogant attitide to 
the numerous people who've tried so hard to help you is disgraceful.


Mark, I'm as frustrated as anyone by Nikos' threads, but there's really 
no call for Please drop dead.  We can do better than that.


--Ned.
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Re: Functional Programming and python

2013-09-30 Thread Piet van Oostrum

Franck Ditter nob...@nowhere.org writes:

 Good approach of FP in Python, but two points make me crazy :
 1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is known 
 technology (since 1960).
 And don't answer with good programmers don't use recursion, this is 
 bullshit.

Tail recursion optimization throws away valuable stack trace information in 
case of an error.

 2. Lambda-expression body is limited to one expression. Why ?

Allowing general statements in a lambda body makes indentation more difficult, 
I think.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum p...@vanoostrum.org
WWW: http://pietvanoostrum.com/
PGP key: [8DAE142BE17999C4]
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Re: VERY BASIC HELP

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:50 PM, vignesh.harikris...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you both so much! I'll be sure to make more pertinent subject lines
 now :) Thanks for the detailed explanations! Clearly, I've just started
 learning this language ~20 minutes before I made this post, and am still
 learning the basics. Do you guys know of any guides for a beginner? I am
 definitely willing to take the time to learn in depth :)


check out the documentation links on python.org to start

 --
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
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Re: Functional Programming and python


Op 30-09-13 19:04, Franck Ditter schreef:



Good approach of FP in Python, but two points make me crazy :
1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is known 
technology (since 1960).
And don't answer with good programmers don't use recursion, this is bullshit.


Guido doesn't like it.


2. Lambda-expression body is limited to one expression. Why ?
Why the hell those limitations ? In this aspect, Javascript has a cooler 
approach.


Guido prefers it that way.

--
Antoon Pardon

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Re: Which Python Framework for REST API and Facebook Wrapper?

2013-09-30 Thread waynejwerner

On Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:20:21 AM UTC-5, harry@gmail.com wrote:
 I will be designing a REST based API for a cross-platform back end that will 
 serve both desktop Facebook users as well as mobile users. It will handle 
 operations such as user creation, retrieval of user and other data, payment 
 verification and in the case of the desktop side, handle the html/css 
 template customization. The database back end is MySQL and I do need a cache 
 system.
 
 
 
 Currently we were using Codeigniter (PHP) for our codebase but as CI seems on 
 the way out, I do not wish to start a new project based on it. I was looking 
 at Laravel for PHP, but, Python is very attractive to me as a language and 
 since the introduction of WSGI, I am confident it can make a difference in 
 performance and code maintainability over PHP while being able to plug in to 
 our dedicated server infrastructure. 
 
 
 
 Since I am not experienced with Python frameworks (though learning curve is 
 not much of an issue for me) I look to the community to understand which 
 Python framework can rival or surpass Codeigniter in terms of performance in 
 heavy traffic backend solutions (over 1M requests per day, with up to 100 
 req/sec at peak). I really want to make the switch from PHP to Python as I 
 believe that Python can solve more problems with less code and faster 
 execution time, not to mention freedom from brackets and semicolons.

If you're looking for something simple, there are solutions like Flask (my 
favourite), CherryPy, Bottle, and web2py. (I only know the names of the last 3) 
I recommend taking a look into the likes of Flask, if only to familiarize 
yourself with some of the techniques of Python frameworks. Here's a basic Flask 
app:

from flask import Flask
app = Flask(__name__)

@app.route('/')
def main():
return Hey, I'm in a Flask!

if __name__ == __main__:
app.run('0.0.0.0', port=5000, debug=True)


If you're looking for performance, Tornado 
(http://www.tornadoweb.org/en/stable/) I've heard is pretty awesome - though 
I've not put it through the paces myself.

HTH,
-W
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Re: class implementation

2013-09-30 Thread Dave Angel

On 30/9/2013 08:41, markot...@gmail.com wrote:

 under variables, i mean, the int's and lists and strings and floats that the 
 parent class uses. IF in parent class there is variable called location, then 
 can i use the same variable in my sub class.

Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
subclass.

But perhaps you mean attributes.  There are both class attributes and
instance attributes, and the behavior is quite different.  Roughly
speaking a class attribute occurs only once per class, and all code can
read its value with either Class.my_attrib   or  instance.my_attrib.  It
can be written with Class.my_attrib.

On the other hand, instance attributes are usable by 
instance.my_attrib, regardless of whether the instance is a base class
or a child class.  Each instance of the class gets a separate copy of
such an attribute.  They are normally defined in the __init__() method.

If you don't happen to know the difference between a class an an
instance of that class, then all the above will look like gibberish, and
you need to do some studying first.

-- 
DaveA


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Re: CRUD library

2013-09-30 Thread waynejwerner

On Monday, September 30, 2013 5:14:28 AM UTC-5, AdamKal wrote:
 Hi, 
 
 
 
 Do you know any library or framework that unifies CRUD somehow. 
 
 Maybe I'll describe my problem:
 
 
 
 I have a application that uses many external services and processes them 
 together. This are things like web services and DB and so on. In the REST era 
 we usually operate on object and collections of objects (like in django's 
 ORM) but have different source behind them. My idea was that there might be 
 somewhere a unified abstraction layer that would require from programmers to 
 write the CRUD methods and handle object creation and management (maybe even 
 relations?) by itself. 
 
 I've started to work on my own library for that but I wouldn't like to do 
 something that someone has done already. 
 
 Do you know any such library/framework?
 
 Do you think that it makes any sense at all?


Does http://python-eve.org/ look anything like what you mean? Or perhaps 
http://www.sqlalchemy.org/ ?

HTH,
W
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Re: Python Unit Tests

2013-09-30 Thread melwin9

Lol, im starting to get the hang out of, onto the next hurdle, i looked up the 
error and it says the data is none?

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File guess.py, line 34, in module
main(random.randint(1, 10)) 
  File guess.py, line 27, in main
guess, tries = getguess(target, allowed)
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable


On Saturday, September 28, 2013 12:52:26 AM UTC-4, mel...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hey,
 
 
 
 How do i go about coming up/coding tests for this program below. Not sure how 
 to even approach writing about 5 tests for it.
 
 
 
 Initially I had this for the test but its not working well.
 
 
 
 Test was name test_guess.py (Code Below)
 
 
 
 [code]
 
 from unittest import TestCase 
 
 import pexpect as pe 
 
 
 
 import guess as g 
 
 import random 
 
 
 
 random_number = random.randrange(1, 10) 
 
 correct = False 
 
 
 
 class GuessTest(TestCase): 
 
 def setUp(self): 
 
 self.intro = 'I have chosen a number from 1-10' 
 
 self.request = 'Guess a number: ' 
 
 self.responseHigh = That's too high. 
 
 self.responseLow  = That's too low. 
 
 self.responseCorrect = That's right! 
 
 self.goodbye = 'Goodbye and thanks for playing!' 
 
 
 
 def test_main(self): 
 
 #cannot execute main now because it will 
 
 #require user input 
 
 from guess import main 
 
 
 
 def test_guessing_hi_low_4(self): 
 
 # Conversation assuming number is 4 
 
 child = pe.spawn('python guess.py') 
 
 child.expect(self.intro,timeout=5) 
 
 child.expect(self.request,timeout=5) 
 
 child.sendline('5') 
 
 child.expect(self.responseHigh,timeout=5) 
 
 child.sendline('3') 
 
 child.expect(self.responseLow,timeout=5) 
 
 child.sendline('4') 
 
 child.expect(self.responseCorrect,timeout=5) 
 
 child.expect(self.goodbye,timeout=5) 
 
 
 
 
 
 def __init__(self): 
 
 self.number = random.randint(0,10) 
 
 HIGH = 1 
 
 LOW = 2 
 
 OK = 3 
 
 
 
 def guess(self, number): 
 
 if number  self.number: 
 
  return self.HIGH 
 
 if number  self.number: 
 
  return self.LOW 
 
 return self.OK 
 
 
 
 def test_guesstoolow(self): 
 
 while not correct: 
 
 guess = input(What could it be?) 
 
 if guess == random_number: 
 
 print Congrats You Got It 
 
 correct = True 
 
 elif guess  random_number: 
 
 print To High 
 
 elif guess  random_number: 
 
 print To Low 
 
 else: 
 
 print Try Again  [/code]
 
 
 
 Python code for game below
 
 
 
 [code]
 
 import random
 
 
 
 intro = 'I have chosen a number from 1-10'
 
 request = 'Guess a number: '
 
 responseHigh = That's too high.
 
 responseLow  = That's too low.
 
 responseCorrect = That's right!
 
 goodbye = 'Goodbye and thanks for playing!'
 
 
 
 print(intro)
 
 
 
 def main():
 
 guessesTaken = 0
 
 number = random.randint(1, 10)
 
 while guessesTaken  5:
 
 print(request)
 
 guess = input()
 
 guess = int(guess)
 
 
 
 guessesTaken = guessesTaken + 1
 
 
 
 if guess  number:
 
 print(responseLow) 
 
 
 
 if guess  number:
 
 print(responseHigh)
 
 
 
 if guess == number:
 
 break
 
 
 
 if guess == number:
 
 guessesTaken = str(guessesTaken)
 
 print(responseCorrect + '! You guessed my number in ' + 
 guessesTaken + ' guesses!')
 
 
 
 if guess != number:
 
 number = str(number)
 
 print(goodbye + ' The number I was thinking of was ' + number)
 
 
 
 ##def main():
 
 #print(intro)
 
  #   user_input = raw_input(request)
 
   #  print(responseHigh)
 
   #  print(request)
 
   #  user_input = raw_input(request)
 
   #  print(responseLow)
 
   #  user_input = raw_input(request)
 
   #  print(responseCorrect)
 
   #  print(goodbye)
 
 
 
 if __name__ == '__main__':
 
 main()[/code]

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Do I really need a web framework?

2013-09-30 Thread dufriz

I want to set up a very simple website, and I need to know if it is necessary 
to use a web framework (e.g. Django) to do basic interactive operations such as 
receiving input from the user, looking up a database and returning some data to 
the user.
I know that this is exactly the purpose of web frameworks, and that they work 
fine.
However, I read somewhere that for small projects such operations can be 
managed without a web framework, just by using Python with mod_python or with 
the CGI module. Is this correct? 

What do you suggest, keeping in mind that I am a newbie and that my website 
project would be very simple and very small?

Thanks
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Re: Python Unit Tests

2013-09-30 Thread MRAB


On 30/09/2013 20:54, melw...@gmail.com wrote:

Lol, im starting to get the hang out of, onto the next hurdle, i looked up the 
error and it says the data is none?

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File guess.py, line 34, in module
 main(random.randint(1, 10))
   File guess.py, line 27, in main
 guess, tries = getguess(target, allowed)
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable


[snip]
Look at 'getguess'.

If the user guess correctly within the number of allowed attempts, the
function returns (guess, tries), but what if the user runs out of
attempts?

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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 30/9/2013 9:42 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 19:03, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 29/09/2013 17:19, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 29/9/2013 7:14 μμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

asked and answered.  Move on


shut up. you are nothign but annoyance here.


Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.
Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your
funny quotes.


Your approach as given in the pseudocode given below is taking up what,
50% of the bandwidth here?  What a waste of a resource.

while answer_isn't_what_I_want:
keep_asking_question()


I was thankfull to the people that tried to help me(excluding you)
Several method have been given to solve the problem.
Other newbies reading this will help them better understand why its 
written the way it is if they compare all the solutions.
And yes, i won't rest until i have it working as i think its clearer and 
more compact.




You are to this mailing list what King Herod was to baby sitting.


And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing nothing else 
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way along while 
contributing negatively only.



Please drop dead and the sooner the better.


After you please.


Your arrogant attitide to
the numerous people who've tried so hard to help you is disgraceful.



Your ironic attitude on the other hand is what characterizes you.

Triing out various solutions and picking the one that better meets one's 
style and needs, is hardly considered as arrogance.


--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Unit Tests

2013-09-30 Thread Dave Angel

On 30/9/2013 15:54, melw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Lol, im starting to get the hang out of, onto the next hurdle, i looked up 
 the error and it says the data is none?

 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File guess.py, line 34, in module
 main(random.randint(1, 10)) 
   File guess.py, line 27, in main
 guess, tries = getguess(target, allowed)
 TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable



Please don't top-post.  Further, if you insist on using a buggy app like
googlegroups, at least remove all the stupid double-spacing.

Do you know how to interpret this error message?  The line that fails is
guess, tries = getguess(target, allowed)


So can you tell what the None data is?  You're doing a tuple-unpack on
the left side of the equals, so the right side needs to be a tuple,
list, or equivalent.  In specific, an iterable.

Now you reread the error, and realize that the getguess() function is
returning None.

If I were a novice, I'd start by splitting up the line with the error:

   temp =  getguess(target, allowed)
   guess, tries = temp

Then when the error complains about the second line, I'd add a print
statement:

   temp =  getguess(target, allowed)
   print(repr(temp))
   guess, tries = temp

Lacking the source code, I'm going to guess that some path through your
code is missing a return expression.

For example, you might have

def  getguess(a, b):
 if a  b:
return a, a*b

So it'll return a tuple of two items in the if body, but without an else
clause, it simply falls off the end, and returns None.  (All functions
return something, so if you don't provide a value, None is used)


-- 
DaveA


-- 
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Re: Functional Programming and python


Op 30-09-13 20:55, Piet van Oostrum schreef:

Franck Ditter nob...@nowhere.org writes:


Good approach of FP in Python, but two points make me crazy :
1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is known 
technology (since 1960).
And don't answer with good programmers don't use recursion, this is bullshit.


Tail recursion optimization throws away valuable stack trace information in 
case of an error.


This is hardly relevant. Because what are we told to use instead of
tail calls? We are told to use loops. But when you use a loop the
stack trace doesn't contain the values of previous runs through
the loop.

So how valuable is that stack frame information when the proposed
alternative doesn't produces it either.

--
Antoon Pardon

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Do I really need a web framework?

2013-09-30 Thread Tim Delaney

On 1 October 2013 05:57, duf...@gmail.com wrote:

 I want to set up a very simple website, and I need to know if it is
 necessary to use a web framework (e.g. Django) to do basic interactive
 operations such as receiving input from the user, looking up a database and
 returning some data to the user.
 I know that this is exactly the purpose of web frameworks, and that they
 work fine.
 However, I read somewhere that for small projects such operations can be
 managed without a web framework, just by using Python with mod_python or
 with the CGI module. Is this correct?

 What do you suggest, keeping in mind that I am a newbie and that my
 website project would be very simple and very small?


There is no *need* to use a web framework. But a web framework can make
things a lot easier for you.

Have a look at webapp2: http://webapp-improved.appspot.com/

Tim Delaney
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[ANN] MATLAB fmincon now available in Python

2013-09-30 Thread dmitrey15

Hi all,
current state of Python - MATLAB connection soft doesn't allow passing of 
function handlers, however, a walkaround has been implemented via some tricks, 
so now MATLAB function fmincon is available in Python-written OpenOpt and 
FuncDesigner frameworks (with possibility of automatic differentiation,  
example ).

Future plans  include MATLAB fsolve, ode23, ode45 (unlike scipy fsolve and ode 
they can handle sparse matrices), fgoalattain, maybe global optimization 
toolbox solvers.

I intend to post the message to several forums, so to keep discussion in a 
single place use OpenOpt forum thread
http://forum.openopt.org/viewtopic.php?id=769

Regards, D.
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way along while
contributing negatively only.



Really? http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/

--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Op 30-09-13 20:54, Ned Batchelder schreef:

On 9/30/13 2:42 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

Please drop dead and the sooner the better.  Your arrogant attitide to
the numerous people who've tried so hard to help you is disgraceful.


Mark, I'm as frustrated as anyone by Nikos' threads, but there's really
no call for Please drop dead.  We can do better than that.


I disagree. The Please drop dead seems well deserved to me. You may
think it better if people could put themselves above it, but that
doesn't make the remark less deserved.

--
Antoon Pardon

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Functional Programming and python

2013-09-30 Thread Tim Chase

On 2013-09-30 19:04, Franck Ditter wrote:
 two points make me crazy :
 1. Tail recursion is not optimized. We are in 2013, why ? This is
 known technology (since 1960). And don't answer with good
 programmers don't use recursion,

I seem to recall hearing that the primary reason it hadn't been
implemented is because of Python's super-dynamism (to make up a
word).  That a function could be a tail recursion in one call, but
the calling the same name could then become rebound.  I'm making up
the example, but I think it was something like this:

  def kablooie(*args):
if not args:
  def kablooie(*args):
woah()
do_something(args)
kablooie(args[1:])

where tail recursion optimization would do weird things.

-tkc


-- 
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Re: class implementation


On 9/30/13 3:34 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
subclass.


Why does this meme persist!?  Of course Python has variables, they just 
don't work like C variables do.  If you'd like to know the details: 
http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html


--Ned.
--
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way along while
contributing negatively only.



Really? http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/


One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way along while
contributing negatively only.

Really?
http://code.activestate.com/**lists/python-list/651611/http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/

One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

--
https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-listhttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

well, actually no. one positive comment (and I'm sorry your reference
didn't reveal one!) is 10^2-1 times as 10^2 negative comments. Look in a
mirror dude. You are lazy, you charge people for code that you don't even
have under source control, you have no interest in understanding and
studying how your servers work, how python works. You bitch and whine at
people who come along to help you. You are to slothful to look at a
traceback. Your hosting company ignores you apparently because you are
such an sob they don't even want your business. You pick a nickname that
is the defininition of an asshole:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php and yet
you return again and again to be rude to all who first try to help you out,
then realize you are such a total jerk that they even wish you an awful
demise without even having met you..

Take a look in the mirror dude.

I don't care if you want to tell me to shut up. It seemed amusing to
others here.

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 22:34, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way along while
contributing negatively only.



Really? http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/


One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.



Yet more sheer unadulterated rubbish from an imbecile who clearly hasn't 
got the faintest idea what he's talking about.  Would you please be kind 
enough to stand up, your voice is rather muffled.  That is after you've 
done a proper statistical analysis of the number of positive posts I've 
made over the years.  You are actually one of the very few people who 
has managed to get quite so far up my nose, that's quite an achievement 
as by nature I'm actually extremely tolerant.


--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: class implementation

2013-09-30 Thread random832

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013, at 17:28, Ned Batchelder wrote:
 On 9/30/13 3:34 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
  Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
  variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
  outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
  subclass.
 
 Why does this meme persist!?  Of course Python has variables, they just 
 don't work like C variables do.  If you'd like to know the details: 
 http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html

Wait a minute, how exactly are C variables supposed to be different from
this?
-- 
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Re: Do I really need a web framework?

2013-09-30 Thread John Gordon

In f4a6d31f-cffe-4c03-9586-4f00f9037...@googlegroups.com duf...@gmail.com 
writes:

 I want to set up a very simple website, and I need to know if it is
 necessary to use a web framework (e.g. Django) to do basic interactive
 operations such as receiving input from the user, looking up a database
 and returning some data to the user.

No, it's not necessary.  But depending on how large your website is,
using a framework can end up being a lot less work than doing it from
scratch.

 What do you suggest, keeping in mind that I am a newbie and that my
 website project would be very simple and very small?

That depends on how you define very simple and very small.

For example, how many different pages will your website have?

A login page?
A search entry page?
A search results page?
A help page?
An error page?
A logout page?
Any other pages?

I worked on a project that did its own web handling from scratch, and
frankly it was a nightmare.  But it wasn't a small project, so yours
might be doable.

-- 
John Gordon   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gor...@panix.com  B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, The Gashlycrumb Tinies

-- 
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 12:44 πμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:




On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com
mailto:nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing
nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way
along while
contributing negatively only.


Really? http://code.activestate.com/__lists/python-list/651611/
http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/


One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

--
https://mail.python.org/__mailman/listinfo/python-list
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


well, actually no.  one positive comment (and I'm sorry your reference
didn't reveal one!) is 10^2-1 times as 10^2 negative comments.   Look in
a mirror dude.  You are lazy, you charge people for code that you don't
even have under source control, you have no interest in understanding
and studying how your servers work, how python works.  You bitch and
whine at people who come along to help you.  You are to slothful to look
at a traceback.  Your hosting company ignores you apparently because you
are such an sob they don't even want your business.  You pick a nickname
that is the defininition of an asshole:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php  and yet
you return again and again to be rude to all who first try to help you
out, then realize you are such a total jerk that they even wish you an
awful demise without even having met you..

Take a look in the mirror dude.

I don't care if you want to tell me to shut up.  It seemed amusing to
others here.

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com


stfu dickhead.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

2013-09-30 Thread Denis McMahon

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:51:39 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

 On 30/09/2013 14:51, Grant Edwards wrote:
 On 2013-09-29, ?? nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
  29/9/2013 10:53 , ??/?? Chris Angelico :

 You fail to understand that these code i now use was written with the
 help of regulars here and yes its correct.

 If you're code is correct, then use it and be happy.
 There's no need to bother us if your code is correct.

 Could this be an extremely rare case whereby the original code is 100%
 correct but the problems have been exacerbated by the many suggested
 patches given here being 100% incorrect?

I'm sending you the bill for hospital admission. I laughed so hard I fell 
off of my chair and banged my head!

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 1/10/2013 12:44 πμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com
mailto:nikos.gr...@gmail.com** wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing
nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way
along while
contributing negatively only.

Really?
http://code.activestate.com/__**lists/python-list/651611/http://code.activestate.com/__lists/python-list/651611/

http://code.activestate.com/**lists/python-list/651611/http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/

One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

https://mail.python.org/__**mailman/listinfo/python-listhttps://mail.python.org/__mailman/listinfo/python-list

https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-listhttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

well, actually no. one positive comment (and I'm sorry your reference
didn't reveal one!) is 10^2-1 times as 10^2 negative comments. Look in
a mirror dude. You are lazy, you charge people for code that you don't
even have under source control, you have no interest in understanding
and studying how your servers work, how python works. You bitch and
whine at people who come along to help you. You are to slothful to look
at a traceback. Your hosting company ignores you apparently because you
are such an sob they don't even want your business. You pick a nickname
that is the defininition of an asshole:
http://www.politicsforum.org/**images/flame_warriors/flame_**62.phphttp://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php
and yet
you return again and again to be rude to all who first try to help you
out, then realize you are such a total jerk that they even wish you an
awful demise without even having met you..

Take a look in the mirror dude.

I don't care if you want to tell me to shut up. It seemed amusing to
others here.

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

stfu dickhead.
--
https://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-listhttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

that was responsive! You should join your local debating club!

anyway, out!

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 23:08, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 1/10/2013 12:44 πμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:




On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com
mailto:nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing
nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way
along while
contributing negatively only.


Really? http://code.activestate.com/__lists/python-list/651611/
http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/


One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

--
https://mail.python.org/__mailman/listinfo/python-list
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


well, actually no.  one positive comment (and I'm sorry your reference
didn't reveal one!) is 10^2-1 times as 10^2 negative comments.   Look in
a mirror dude.  You are lazy, you charge people for code that you don't
even have under source control, you have no interest in understanding
and studying how your servers work, how python works.  You bitch and
whine at people who come along to help you.  You are to slothful to look
at a traceback.  Your hosting company ignores you apparently because you
are such an sob they don't even want your business.  You pick a nickname
that is the defininition of an asshole:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php  and yet
you return again and again to be rude to all who first try to help you
out, then realize you are such a total jerk that they even wish you an
awful demise without even having met you..

Take a look in the mirror dude.

I don't care if you want to tell me to shut up.  It seemed amusing to
others here.

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com


stfu dickhead.


To quote from The A-Team, I love it when a plan comes together.

--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Do I really need a web framework?

2013-09-30 Thread waynejwerner

On Monday, September 30, 2013 2:57:08 PM UTC-5, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
 I want to set up a very simple website, and I need to know if it is necessary 
 to use a web framework (e.g. Django) to do basic interactive operations such 
 as receiving input from the user, looking up a database and returning some 
 data to the user.
 
 I know that this is exactly the purpose of web frameworks, and that they work 
 fine.
 
 However, I read somewhere that for small projects such operations can be 
 managed without a web framework, just by using Python with mod_python or with 
 the CGI module. Is this correct? 
 
 
 
 What do you suggest, keeping in mind that I am a newbie and that my website 
 project would be very simple and very small?

If it's small you want, Flask has worked quite well for me. Here's an example:


from flask import Flask, render_template, redirect, request
from yourstuff import save_data, get_data
app = Flask(__name__)

@app.route('/')
def main():
return render_template('index.html')


@app.route('/data', methods=['GET', 'POST'])
def data():
if request.method == 'POST':
save_data(request.form.get('data'))
else:
return render_template('data.html', data=get_data())


It doesn't take much to tack SQLAlchemy on top of that for data access, and a 
couple hundred lines will give you quite a lot of power.

HTH,
W
-- 
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 1:14 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 23:08, Νίκος wrote:

Στις 1/10/2013 12:44 πμ, ο/η Joel Goldstick έγραψε:




On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com
mailto:nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 11:44 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 21:13, Νίκος wrote:

And you are a major asshole leading this list, who is doing
nothing else
than critizizing others people's posts, spamming all he way
along while
contributing negatively only.


Really? http://code.activestate.com/__lists/python-list/651611/
http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/651611/


One positive comment in the history opposes 10^2 negative ones.

--
https://mail.python.org/__mailman/listinfo/python-list
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


well, actually no.  one positive comment (and I'm sorry your reference
didn't reveal one!) is 10^2-1 times as 10^2 negative comments.   Look in
a mirror dude.  You are lazy, you charge people for code that you don't
even have under source control, you have no interest in understanding
and studying how your servers work, how python works.  You bitch and
whine at people who come along to help you.  You are to slothful to look
at a traceback.  Your hosting company ignores you apparently because you
are such an sob they don't even want your business.  You pick a nickname
that is the defininition of an asshole:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php  and yet
you return again and again to be rude to all who first try to help you
out, then realize you are such a total jerk that they even wish you an
awful demise without even having met you..

Take a look in the mirror dude.

I don't care if you want to tell me to shut up.  It seemed amusing to
others here.

--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com


stfu dickhead.


To quote from The A-Team, I love it when a plan comes together.


2 dickheads names Joe  Mark work together to achieve total bullshit!
Well done Beavis  Butthead!
rofl...

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Python variables? [was Re: class implementation]

2013-09-30 Thread Ethan Furman


On 09/30/2013 02:28 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 9/30/13 3:34 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
subclass.


Why does this meme persist!?  Of course Python has variables, they just don't 
work like C variables do.  If you'd like
to know the details: http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html


Because Python's model is different enough that it usually makes thinking about it simpler to stay away from the word 
'variable'; in every other language I have used a variable is a box, but in Python it's a label for a box.


From your blog:


Names are Python's variables: they refer to values, and
 those values can change (vary) over the course of your
 program.


This is partially incorrect.  If the value referred to by the name is immutable, then it cannot change; perhaps you 
meant to say that which object the name points to can vary over time?


--
~Ethan~
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


On 30/09/2013 23:19, Νίκος wrote:


2 dickheads names Joe  Mark work together to achieve total bullshit!
Well done Beavis  Butthead!
rofl...



Well aside from the fact that you've maintained your record by being 
inaccurate with 50% of the names that you've quoted, it appears that 
we've something that has very much in common with your website.  Which 
reminds me, is it still possible to access your users' names and 
passwords in plain text or is that something that you've actually 
bothered to fix?


--
Cheers.

Mark Lawrence

--
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:
 Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
 job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.


 I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.
 Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your
 funny quotes.

Then maybe you should keep to programming for personal pleasure and
stop trying to make it part of your business. Most of your problems
stem from a perceived urgency - you panic, because you have stupidly
edited your live code again, and come to this list begging for help.
If you were coding purely for pleasure, your problems would not lose
you customers, and you could deal with issues calmly.

To be quite frank, I think you SHOULD lose customers. Suppose you buy
a piece of furniture from some small-time carpenter, and the moving
parts are stuck, it wobbles on its legs, and if anyone uses it who
isn't American, it crashes to the floor (which is how your Unicode
issues make you look). You go and complain, loudly, in front of people
who were looking at his wares and considering buying. He might lose
customers because of your complaint - but if he's selling a dodgy
product, he *should* lose customers. Carpentry for pleasure, or
programming for pleasure, is a fine thing to do, but it should not be
considered business.

Nikos, I sincerely hope that all these problems cause you to go out of
business. Preferably right now, with just enough maintenance to last
till the end of your contracts with people. Then start programming
purely as a hobby, until you actually master the craft.

ChrisA
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 1:28 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

On 30/09/2013 23:19, Νίκος wrote:


2 dickheads names Joe  Mark work together to achieve total bullshit!
Well done Beavis  Butthead!
rofl...



Well aside from the fact that you've maintained your record by being
inaccurate with 50% of the names that you've quoted, it appears that
we've something that has very much in common with your website.  Which
reminds me, is it still possible to access your users' names and
passwords in plain text or is that something that you've actually
bothered to fix?


Nope, it isn't. I have fixed it.
--
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Re: Python variables?

2013-09-30 Thread Ben Finney

Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us writes:

 From [Ned Batchelder]'s blog:

  Names are Python's variables: they refer to values, and
   those values can change (vary) over the course of your
   program.

 This is partially incorrect.  If the value referred to by the name is
 immutable, then it cannot change; perhaps you meant to say that which
 object the name points to can vary over time?

I agree. Names are not Python's variables.

If anything in Python is a “variable” as generally understood, it is not
a name. It is a *binding*, from a reference (a name, or some other
reference like a list item) to a value.

It is the binding which can change over the course of the program, so
that is the variable.

-- 
 \“Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from |
  `\  bad judgement.” —Frederick P. Brooks |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

-- 
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 1:29 πμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 30/9/2013 5:45 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

Absolutely hilarious.  Please give up your web work and Python and get a
job writing scripts for comedians, you'd make a large fortune.



I learn Python for personal pleasure because i like programming.
Perhaps it would be even better if you quit spamming my thread with your
funny quotes.


Then maybe you should keep to programming for personal pleasure and
stop trying to make it part of your business. Most of your problems
stem from a perceived urgency - you panic, because you have stupidly
edited your live code again, and come to this list begging for help.
If you were coding purely for pleasure, your problems would not lose
you customers, and you could deal with issues calmly.

To be quite frank, I think you SHOULD lose customers. Suppose you buy
a piece of furniture from some small-time carpenter, and the moving
parts are stuck, it wobbles on its legs, and if anyone uses it who
isn't American, it crashes to the floor (which is how your Unicode
issues make you look). You go and complain, loudly, in front of people
who were looking at his wares and considering buying. He might lose
customers because of your complaint - but if he's selling a dodgy
product, he *should* lose customers. Carpentry for pleasure, or
programming for pleasure, is a fine thing to do, but it should not be
considered business.

Nikos, I sincerely hope that all these problems cause you to go out of
business. Preferably right now, with just enough maintenance to last
till the end of your contracts with people. Then start programming
purely as a hobby, until you actually master the craft.



I learn during the process.
That's how i deal with the situation.
I challedge my self and then try to confront the given situation _live_.

It's not wise to do so, but that how i operate.
Apart form that my customer's webistes have no problems, everyhting i do 
its domain specific, my domain, DNS and Mail issues for my domain, i 
don't play with customer's settings and data.


I have a good sense _not_ to fiddle with their accounts(except from the 
time that i have taken the risk to give you root access to helo me with 
a python issue, and you've helped me appropiately).



--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Mutual respect, tolerance, encouragement (was: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte)

2013-09-30 Thread Ben Finney

Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:

 Nikos, I sincerely hope that all these problems cause you to go out of
 business. Preferably right now, with just enough maintenance to last
 till the end of your contracts with people. Then start programming
 purely as a hobby, until you actually master the craft.

This is a sentiment I can heartily endorse. Far better than puerile
jeers and hostile desires for violence.

Please, everyone in this thread needs to keep in mind our host's
Diversity Statement:

The Python Software Foundation and the global Python community
welcome and encourage participation by everyone. Our community is
based on mutual respect, tolerance, and encouragement, and we are
working to help each other live up to these principles. We want our
community to be more diverse: whoever you are, and whatever your
background, we welcome you.

Let's keep all discussions here close to those principles.

-- 
 \  “The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're |
  `\   still a rat.” —Jane Wagner, via Lily Tomlin |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Στις 1/10/2013 1:28 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

 On 30/09/2013 23:19, Νίκος wrote:


 2 dickheads names Joe  Mark work together to achieve total bullshit!
 Well done Beavis  Butthead!
 rofl...


 Well aside from the fact that you've maintained your record by being
 inaccurate with 50% of the names that you've quoted, it appears that
 we've something that has very much in common with your website.  Which
 reminds me, is it still possible to access your users' names and
 passwords in plain text or is that something that you've actually
 bothered to fix?


 Nope, it isn't. I have fixed it.

And this doesn't bother you???!?

Nikos, industry best practice is to make sure people can't steal all
your users' passwords *even if they get access to your hard drive*.
Passwords should be stored like this:

92e25cf5beefd4982cedd2f28b430e0e9d23e0966ee3f20c74f825eb9842

That's the password qwer, on an account named asdf, on a mythical
system. Even knowing that, you can't work out what another password
means. Storing people's passwords in plain text is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE
idea - and having them accessible to the world is a sign of a complete
and utter lack of any semblance of security.

I understand that bugs happen. But bugs of this criticality should be
your very highest priority... unless you're not actually in business
here, and you're just scamming a bunch of people by pretending you run
a legit enterprise.

ChrisA
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 1:43 πμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:

Στις 1/10/2013 1:28 πμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:


On 30/09/2013 23:19, Νίκος wrote:



2 dickheads names Joe  Mark work together to achieve total bullshit!
Well done Beavis  Butthead!
rofl...



Well aside from the fact that you've maintained your record by being
inaccurate with 50% of the names that you've quoted, it appears that
we've something that has very much in common with your website.  Which
reminds me, is it still possible to access your users' names and
passwords in plain text or is that something that you've actually
bothered to fix?



Nope, it isn't. I have fixed it.


And this doesn't bother you???!?

Nikos, industry best practice is to make sure people can't steal all
your users' passwords *even if they get access to your hard drive*.
Passwords should be stored like this:

92e25cf5beefd4982cedd2f28b430e0e9d23e0966ee3f20c74f825eb9842

That's the password qwer, on an account named asdf, on a mythical
system. Even knowing that, you can't work out what another password
means. Storing people's passwords in plain text is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE
idea - and having them accessible to the world is a sign of a complete
and utter lack of any semblance of security.

I understand that bugs happen. But bugs of this criticality should be
your very highest priority... unless you're not actually in business
here, and you're just scamming a bunch of people by pretending you run
a legit enterprise.

ChrisA

I don't have the security awareness you have, but i'am learnign at the 
process.


What maked you think i store peoples password in plain text?

All the user account passwords i set i do it via cPanel or via WHM.

How those services store the password in the linux server its up to them.
--
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Νίκος nikos.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
 I learn during the process.
 That's how i deal with the situation.
 I challedge my self and then try to confront the given situation _live_.

 It's not wise to do so, but that how i operate.

Everyone's learning on the job. (I learned this week that it's
possible to play fast and loose with ARP and routing, to make one
computer look like two and two look like one. That was fun. When I
came up with the concept, I gave my boss a 95% confidence that it'd
work; and so far it's not caused any trouble.) But what you're doing
is charging your customers while you learn the very basics. You can't
sell Hello, world. Most people expect to go to university to learn a
trade; some spend two decades playing with something before earning a
single dollar (or Euro, or yen).

Learn to code, THEN try to make money at it. Or even leave off the
'then' clause - plenty of people never earn anything from code, and
stay as happy amateurs. There's nothing wrong with that.

ChrisA
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte


Στις 1/10/2013 1:56 πμ, ο/η Chris Angelico έγραψε:

But what you're doing
is charging your customers while you learn the very basics.


I designed their websites and they are up and running.
Yes i have charged some money, but they gain what they paid for, a 
running website, all of them.


So, its not like i'm ripping off someone here.


You can't sell Hello, world.


I hope i was in the position to sell python code but i'am not.
I learn Python because i like programming.

My reseller site should have been made probably in wordpress or joomla 
cms but i decided to code it in Python instead because i like the 
language and want it to learn it better and better. It has secret 
functions as well.


When i problem occurs i just ask and thats how i progress.
Sometimes i do a little reading too :)
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Re: Python variables? [was Re: class implementation]



On 9/30/13 6:02 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

On 09/30/2013 02:28 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 9/30/13 3:34 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
subclass.


Why does this meme persist!?  Of course Python has variables, they 
just don't work like C variables do.  If you'd like

to know the details: http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html


Because Python's model is different enough that it usually makes 
thinking about it simpler to stay away from the word 'variable'; in 
every other language I have used a variable is a box, but in Python 
it's a label for a box.




It might help C programmers to stay away from variable, but some 
people claim we should avoid the word so as not to confuse beginners. 
That's just silly.  Beginners have no holdover concepts from C.  Lots of 
languages use the same names and values model that Python does:  
Javascript, Java, Ruby, Lisp, etc.



From your blog:


Names are Python's variables: they refer to values, and
 those values can change (vary) over the course of your
 program.


This is partially incorrect.  If the value referred to by the name is 
immutable, then it cannot change; perhaps you meant to say that which 
object the name points to can vary over time?


Yes, I meant that 1) names refer to values, and 2) a name can refer to 
different values over the course of a program.  Hence, the value varies, 
hence, a variable.


In fact, it's more accurate to say that Python has no constants! :)

--Ned.


--
~Ethan~


--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python variables?



On 9/30/13 6:37 PM, Ben Finney wrote:

Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us writes:


 From [Ned Batchelder]'s blog:

Names are Python's variables: they refer to values, and
  those values can change (vary) over the course of your
  program.

This is partially incorrect.  If the value referred to by the name is
immutable, then it cannot change; perhaps you meant to say that which
object the name points to can vary over time?

I agree. Names are not Python's variables.

If anything in Python is a “variable” as generally understood, it is not
a name. It is a *binding*, from a reference (a name, or some other
reference like a list item) to a value.

It is the binding which can change over the course of the program, so
that is the variable.



True, but no one calls the binding the variable.  Here is a program:

x = 4

Every one of us is perfectly comfortable talking about the variable x.  
Don't get hung up on implementation pedantry.  The name x here refers to 
4.  Later it could refer to four.  The value associated with the name 
x changed.  x is a variable.


--Ned.
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Re: class implementation

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:28:30 -0400, Ned Batchelder wrote:

 On 9/30/13 3:34 PM, Dave Angel wrote:
 Python doesn't actually have variables, but the things it documents as
 variables are local names within a method.  Those are not visible
 outside of the method, regardless of whether you're in a class or a
 subclass.
 
 Why does this meme persist!?  Of course Python has variables, they just
 don't work like C variables do.  If you'd like to know the details:
 http://nedbatchelder.com/text/names.html


I'm not convinced that Python variables are different from C variables 
is a better way to get through to people than Python doesn't have 
variables, it has name bindings.

Of course, *technically* the first statement is accurate, and the second 
relies on a definition of variable that is not universal. The question is 
which is more effective at getting the differences between the two 
programming models through to the reader. I can't speak for others, but 
in my own experience, I never *quite* understood the semantic differences 
between Python name bindings and Pascal variables until I came across the 
meme Python has no variables.



-- 
Steven
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Re: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xb6 in position 0: invalid start byte

On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 01:08:41 +0300, Νίκος wrote:

 stfu dickhead.


And you're back in the kill-file.

*plonk*



-- 
Steven
-- 
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Re: Python Unit Tests

2013-09-30 Thread Terry Reedy


On 9/30/2013 3:54 PM, melw...@gmail.com wrote:

Lol, im starting to get the hang out of, onto the next hurdle, i looked up the 
error and it says the data is none?

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File guess.py, line 34, in module
 main(random.randint(1, 10))
   File guess.py, line 27, in main
 guess, tries = getguess(target, allowed)
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable


If you have not figured it out yet, add a copy of the return within the 
while loop,

   return guess, tries
after the while loop also, so it does not return the default of None.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Functional Programming and python

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:36:28 +, Neil Cerutti quoted:

 Why cant lambda forms contain statements?

Gah! Please fix your news client! (I see you're using slrn.) The \x92 
bytes found in your message are apostrophes (technically: right single 
quotation marks), encoded using the legacy Windows-1252 codec, but your 
news client is falsely advertising it as US-ASCII:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


It's almost 2014, it is unspeakably poor form that an application is 
still making this mistake. Is there an updated version of slrn that fixes 
this? Can you manually force it to use UTF-8? Can you report this as a 
bug?

In case you aren't too clear on the concepts, here are two Must Read 
links:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
http://nedbatchelder.com/text/unipain.html


-- 
Steven
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Re: Tab completion in Python3.4

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:50:01 +, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

 Steven D'Aprano steve at pearwood.info writes:
 
 I don't consider either of these solutions to be satisfactory. If you
 agree, I urge you to try it out for yourself, and then leave a comment
 on the bug tracker asking for tab completion to still insert tabs at
 the beginning of the line:
 
 Such a change is much more likely to happen if someone actually proposes
 a patch for it, rather than merely ask for it. I don't think anyone is
 ideologically opposed to it.

I thought you were and am glad to hear you aren't :-)


-- 
Steven
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Re: class implementation