Re: Posting warning message
Hi Cameron, Please ignore my last email. I found those two options AFTER I created the filter. I expected them to be on the "filter messages like this" panel. Tamara > On 14Jun2018 21:09, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 4:32:56 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > >> This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > [...] > >> Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's > >> "filter > >> messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and > >> "Skip > >> the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail > >> folder > >> in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the > >> Group. > > > >Sounds great, Cameron. But Gmail doesn't give me the options "Apply the label > >Python" and "Skip the inbox" under "Filter messages like this." I just get > >the > >generic To, From, Has the words, Doesn't have. > > The first panel with to/from etc is just the message selection panel. It > probably has the "includes the words" field already filled in with something > that will match a python-list message. When you click "Create filter with this > search" you get another panel with what to do with matching messages. > > I usually: > > - skip the Inbox > - apply the label: click the "Choose label" dropdown and create a new label > "python" or whatever suits you > - also apply filter to matching conversations, which will gather up all the > list messages that have already arrived and filter them, too > > Also note that you don't need a label per list. I file a few mailing lists in > the same "python" folder. > > Alternatively, you might make a label per list; note that you can put a slash > in a label eg "python/python-list" and GMail will treat that as a hierarchy, > making a "python" category on the left with "python-list" underneath it. Might > be handy of you join several lists and want to group them. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
Cameron, I DON'T HAVE the options "skip the inbox" and "apply the label." Not within the option "filter messages like this," which is where I understood you to say they were, or outside that option. Does Gmail have these options? Tamara On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 4:17 AM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 14Jun2018 21:09, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 4:32:56 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > >> This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > [...] > >> Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's > >> "filter > >> messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and > >> "Skip > >> the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail > >> folder > >> in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the > >> Group. > > > >Sounds great, Cameron. But Gmail doesn't give me the options "Apply the label > >Python" and "Skip the inbox" under "Filter messages like this." I just get > >the > >generic To, From, Has the words, Doesn't have. > > The first panel with to/from etc is just the message selection panel. It > probably has the "includes the words" field already filled in with something > that will match a python-list message. When you click "Create filter with this > search" you get another panel with what to do with matching messages. > > I usually: > > - skip the Inbox > - apply the label: click the "Choose label" dropdown and create a new label > "python" or whatever suits you > - also apply filter to matching conversations, which will gather up all the > list messages that have already arrived and filter them, too > > Also note that you don't need a label per list. I file a few mailing lists in > the same "python" folder. > > Alternatively, you might make a label per list; note that you can put a slash > in a label eg "python/python-list" and GMail will treat that as a hierarchy, > making a "python" category on the left with "python-list" underneath it. Might > be handy of you join several lists and want to group them. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 14Jun2018 21:09, Tamara Berger wrote: On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 4:32:56 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list [...] Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's "filter messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and "Skip the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail folder in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the Group. Sounds great, Cameron. But Gmail doesn't give me the options "Apply the label Python" and "Skip the inbox" under "Filter messages like this." I just get the generic To, From, Has the words, Doesn't have. The first panel with to/from etc is just the message selection panel. It probably has the "includes the words" field already filled in with something that will match a python-list message. When you click "Create filter with this search" you get another panel with what to do with matching messages. I usually: - skip the Inbox - apply the label: click the "Choose label" dropdown and create a new label "python" or whatever suits you - also apply filter to matching conversations, which will gather up all the list messages that have already arrived and filter them, too Also note that you don't need a label per list. I file a few mailing lists in the same "python" folder. Alternatively, you might make a label per list; note that you can put a slash in a label eg "python/python-list" and GMail will treat that as a hierarchy, making a "python" category on the left with "python-list" underneath it. Might be handy of you join several lists and want to group them. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 4:32:56 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Many of us prefer that to Google Groups. You have the advantage that email > messages arrive to your GMail directly, instead of to the group. You can > easily > file messages from the list into its own folder (in GMail, this is called > "apply a label"). > > Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's "filter > messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and > "Skip > the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail > folder > in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the > Group. Sounds great, Cameron. But Gmail doesn't give me the options "Apply the label Python" and "Skip the inbox" under "Filter messages like this." I just get the generic To, From, Has the words, Doesn't have. Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On 14Jun2018 02:35, Tamara Berger wrote: On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 1:49 AM Cameron Simpson wrote: Just as you can run your code before you install it, you can lint your code beforehand also. In fact, you should be doing both: run and test the code _before_ installing it, and also lint it (when you care) and test again (because if you made lint changes you want to check they haven't done something unwanted). Great. So I'm using three interfaces: in my case, the text editor, the Python shell, and the UNIX terminal. Is that right? Possibly; I thought you were using IDLE, which is a GUI with a simple editor and a Python interpreter built in? My setup tends to be a terminal with an editor in it, and another terminal with a UNIX shell in it. And sometimes the Python shell in the UNIX shell in the terminal when I'm testing something simple. For example: [~/hg/css(hg:default)]fleet*> python3 + exec /Users/cameron/var/venv/3/bin/python3 Python 3.6.5 (default, Mar 29 2018, 15:38:28) [GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> That's a python 3 shell run from the UNIX shell in a terminal. The "[~/hg/css(hg:default)]fleet*>" is my UNIX shell prompt, with my working directory, VCS branch and hostname. So "~/hg/css" is where I'm working, separate from where the code gets installed. For testing I run the local code, which might be arbitrarily bad. I don't do the "install" step until it seems fairly good. Of course, the UNIX shell is there to run whatever I like. So to lint one of my Python files I might do this: [~/hg/css(hg:default)]fleet*> lint cs/sh.py + exec lint cs/sh.py + exec python3 -m py_compile cs/sh.py + exec /Users/cameron/var/venv/3/bin/python3 -m py_compile cs/sh.py + exec pyflakes cs/sh.py + exec pep8 --ignore=E111,E114,E124,E126,E201,E202,E221,E226,E227,E265,E266,E301,E302,E501,E731,W503 cs/sh.py + exec pylint --rcfile=/Users/cameron/.pylintrc --disable=bad-whitespace,invalid-name cs/sh.py Using config file /Users/cameron/.pylintrc * Module python.cs.sh W:105, 2: Using possibly undefined loop variable 'offset' (undefined-loop-variable) -- Your code has been rated at 9.85/10 (previous run: 9.85/10, +0.00) You can see my lint script doing: - test compile the script (no need to bother with the rest if that fails) - run pyflakes on it - run pep8 on it - run pylint on it Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 1:49 AM Cameron Simpson wrote: > Just as you can run your code before you install it, you can lint your code > beforehand also. In fact, you should be doing both: run and test the code > _before_ installing it, and also lint it (when you care) and test again > (because if you made lint changes you want to check they haven't done > something > unwanted). Great. So I'm using three interfaces: in my case, the text editor, the Python shell, and the UNIX terminal. Is that right? Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On 14Jun2018 01:34, Tamara Berger wrote: Is it possible to do the "linting" after you've written your code but before you install it for the first time? Sure. I always do it that way. Just as you can run your code before you install it, you can lint your code beforehand also. In fact, you should be doing both: run and test the code _before_ installing it, and also lint it (when you care) and test again (because if you made lint changes you want to check they haven't done something unwanted). Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
Is it possible to do the "linting" after you've written your code but before you install it for the first time? Tamara On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:30 AM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 13Jun2018 00:05, Tamara Berger wrote: > >Thanks for the in-depth answer. I'm going to have to read it > >carefully, with the help of a Python glossary. Some of the terms you > >use are new to me. > > No worries. Just ask if you don't find definitions. > > BTW, a "lint" program, or "linter" is a program for reporting on style trivia, > trivial logic errors like variable used before defined (or never defined, > which > is often a typing error misspelling a variable or function name), and things > that look like they might be bugs (a common mistake of mine is constructing > exceptions like logging calls, and one of my linters has found dozens of these > for me.) > > >>or am I supposed to root around for my module and make the edits one by one? > > > >I was trying to be amusing and didn't get my point across. > > Ah, ok then. Easy for stuff like that to fall flat in email. > > >>Finally, no you don't normally root around and change an installed module. > >>Instead, modify your original copy and reinstall the newer version! > > > >What I meant was, do I have to open the file, search for, e.g., colons > >and insert space after them? These were the sorts of picayune errors > >picked up by PEP8 on my program. I deliberately omit such spaces when > >I code because I like to do as little unnecessary work as possible. > >There is enough repetitive coding as it is. I know some IDEs have word > >completion suggestion for variables, etc, that the user creates. But > >I'm practicing in barebones IDLE and that means a lot of extra work. > > Regrettably, yes, unless you're using an editor that has autoformatting > support. Learn typing habits which minimise stuff like that, it saves going > back later. > > I don't use IDEs on the whole, and I don't use an autoformatter for Python. My > environment tends to be an editor window and a shell to run things from (thus: > 2 terminals, one running vim and one running a shell). > > Training your fingers to do the trivia reflexively helps. And leaving the > linting until _after_ you've got your code working correctly helps, because > you > aren't changing tasks midstream and you are linting code you've deleted or > changed :-) > > An editor with syntax support can help. I use vi or vim, and its syntax > support > is fairly crude. Two things its does have which I use a lot is autoindent (as > simple as starting the next line at the same indent as the one I just > completed) and syntax highlighting, which colours keywords and identifiers and > strings differently. When you make trivial mistakes like not closing a quote > or > misspelling a keyword or leaving off a colon there is often a visual cue. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 14:30:05 +, Grant Edwards wrote: [...] > You refer to "this forum" as if you think it's some centrally controlled > web application. It's not. It's a Usenet group gatewayed to a mailing > list gatewayed to an archive/nntp server at gmane.org. Google then > duct-taped the atrocity that is Google Groops onto the side of the > Usenet group. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_mailing_list > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups > > IOW, there is no such think as "this forum". Your description of the various technologies involved may be correct (although you've missed at least one: gmane) but there certainly is such a thing as "this forum". "This forum" is an abstraction of the community and technologies (note plural) we are using (comp.lang.python/pythonl...@python.org/whatever Google Groups calls it) from *other* forums like python-dev mailing list, Stackoverflow, #python on Freenode, the various Python-related sub- reddits, etc. A forum is not necessarily a single piece of technology controlled at a single point. Like the internet itself, forums can be decentralised and running on multiple diverse technologies. > If you want whatever user interface you're using to send postings to > hold onto them for 15 minutes to allow you a second chance to edit them, > then you need to talk to whoever maintains the user interface that you > use to send messages to the Usetnet group or mailing list. Indeed. The "I've changed my mind, don't send that message" function depends on the technology you use to communicate with the forum, not the forum. -- Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 2018-06-13, Tamara Berger wrote: > I just meant edit within the moment or two after you've posted a > message. I think a good feature in this forum would allow posters to > edit their messages in just that way. I have such a feature enabled in > gmail. I can "undo" my action for 30 seconds after I've clicked on > "send." You refer to "this forum" as if you think it's some centrally controlled web application. It's not. It's a Usenet group gatewayed to a mailing list gatewayed to an archive/nntp server at gmane.org. Google then duct-taped the atrocity that is Google Groops onto the side of the Usenet group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_mailing_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups IOW, there is no such think as "this forum". If you want whatever user interface you're using to send postings to hold onto them for 15 minutes to allow you a second chance to edit them, then you need to talk to whoever maintains the user interface that you use to send messages to the Usetnet group or mailing list. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! LOOK!! Sullen at American teens wearing gmail.comMADRAS shorts and "Flock of Seagulls" HAIRCUTS! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
Tamara Berger wrote: Live means live. It is not a word I created. It means that the link has been activated, so clicking on it will take you to the associated page. Okay, I think "clickable" is a better word to describe this. Most mail reading software these days automatically recognises things that look like URLs and makes them clickable, so you usually don't need to do anything special. (And if you're sending plain text email, there's nothing special you *can* do.) -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 13Jun2018 00:29, Tamara Berger wrote: On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:57 PM Cameron Simpson wrote: On 12Jun2018 07:14, Tamara Berger wrote: >Just one more thing, Cameron. I was looking at an Apple support page, and it says "When you're logged in to your Mac using an administrator account, you can use the sudo command in the Terminal app to execute commands as a different user, such as the root user." (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202035). I am logged in as administrator. So why isn't sudo working for me? >P.S. How would I make the link I provided live? What link? This is why we trim quoted text and reply below the relevant bit directly: I don't know what link you provided or even whether it is there, just buried in the huge quoted text. Just cite it again, eg: How would I make this link (link here) live? The link is above, in the first paragraph, beginning with the words "Just one more thing, Cameron." And then, of course, tell us what "live" means :-) Live means live. It is not a word I created. It means that the link has been activated, so clicking on it will take you to the associated page. Here is a definition from www.yourdictionary.com/live-link. "Live Link - Computer Definition: An active text or graphic link on a Web page. Clicking the link redirects the user to another Web page or a document or image." The link to the definition I just copied into this paragraph is not live because clicking on it will not do anything. Aha. Well, clicking on it worked for me! But then I'm using email in a terminal window where the terminal window has some support for recognising links and making them clickable. I'm surprised GMail doesn't do that as well. This question became moot when I posted my message, because that action activated the link. [...] It may be that the "post" action didn't do it, but Google Groups' message rendering did it. You don't need to make some things "live", your user interface will do it for you. To elaborate, I see your messages as plain text. But my reading tool (in this case the terminal emulator enclosing my mail reader) saw the link and made it a clickable thing for me. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 13Jun2018 00:41, Tamara Berger wrote: I just meant edit within the moment or two after you've posted a message. I think a good feature in this forum would allow posters to edit their messages in just that way. I have such a feature enabled in gmail. I can "undo" my action for 30 seconds after I've clicked on "send." Ah. Well that's reasonable. Now you just need to petition Google for such a feature :-) Hmm, I wonder if there are browser extensions for that kind of thing. Alternatively you could move outside the forum web page and use other tools. Many of us interact with this via email, using whatever email reader we prefer. I am minded of a post to alt.peeves from long ago: I suppose the solution would be to close the composition window and let my article sit for half an hour or so once I've finished with it, and then go back and proofread it once more. But that would be a pain in the proverbial bifurcated derriere. Part of the experience of flaming is to load a searing missive into the conceptual breech of my SPARCcannon and pull the imaginary lanyard whilst flushed with the adrenaline of mortal combat. - Geoff Miller, Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Tamara Berger wrote: > I just meant edit within the moment or two after you've posted a > message. I think a good feature in this forum would allow posters to > edit their messages in just that way. I have such a feature enabled in > gmail. I can "undo" my action for 30 seconds after I've clicked on > "send." The way that works is that Gmail waits 30 seconds after you click "send" before it actually sends it. You could potentially have that anywhere, but it'll be implemented the same way: that all sending is delayed until you're happy to let it go through. It isn't a feature of "the forum"; it's a feature of the way you post to the newsgroup/mailing list. I, for instance, post directly to the mailing list via email; if you do that through Gmail, you'd get the exact same "undo send" feature. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:50 PM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 12Jun2018 07:48, Tamara Berger wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:17 AM, T Berger wrote: > >> > Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message once > >> > its posted? Or do I have to delete it and rewrite it? > >> > >> Nope. And you can't delete it either. > > > >I deleted them a number of time, then got a bar across the page indicating > >that a post had been deleted. > > As has been mentioned, any "delete" you do on Google Groups is pretty limited, > possibly only to Google's copy. The message has already gone planetwide. > > Google's delete _may_ propagate to the rest of usenet, and _may_ be obeyed in > some of those places. But it certainly doesn't propagate to the mailing list, > and even if it did, those of use who pull the list down to our personal mail > folders would ignore such a thing. > > >It's nuts that you can't edit your own post. > > No, it is actually good: > > - there's not one copy of your post that google can modify: it gets copied > planet wide, to thousands or millions of independent places > > - how do people discover that you've modified a post, to review your change? > how do their replies before your modification make any kind of sense if the > preceeding message is no longer what they replied to? I just meant edit within the moment or two after you've posted a message. I think a good feature in this forum would allow posters to edit their messages in just that way. I have such a feature enabled in gmail. I can "undo" my action for 30 seconds after I've clicked on "send." > The correct way to correct a post is to follow up to it (reply to it) with a > correction or clarification. That way everyone sees the change/fix as a new > messge. And it works even though the messages get copied everywhere, because > all that has to happen is to copy your own new message. Got it. Thanks, Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On 13Jun2018 00:05, Tamara Berger wrote: Thanks for the in-depth answer. I'm going to have to read it carefully, with the help of a Python glossary. Some of the terms you use are new to me. No worries. Just ask if you don't find definitions. BTW, a "lint" program, or "linter" is a program for reporting on style trivia, trivial logic errors like variable used before defined (or never defined, which is often a typing error misspelling a variable or function name), and things that look like they might be bugs (a common mistake of mine is constructing exceptions like logging calls, and one of my linters has found dozens of these for me.) or am I supposed to root around for my module and make the edits one by one? I was trying to be amusing and didn't get my point across. Ah, ok then. Easy for stuff like that to fall flat in email. Finally, no you don't normally root around and change an installed module. Instead, modify your original copy and reinstall the newer version! What I meant was, do I have to open the file, search for, e.g., colons and insert space after them? These were the sorts of picayune errors picked up by PEP8 on my program. I deliberately omit such spaces when I code because I like to do as little unnecessary work as possible. There is enough repetitive coding as it is. I know some IDEs have word completion suggestion for variables, etc, that the user creates. But I'm practicing in barebones IDLE and that means a lot of extra work. Regrettably, yes, unless you're using an editor that has autoformatting support. Learn typing habits which minimise stuff like that, it saves going back later. I don't use IDEs on the whole, and I don't use an autoformatter for Python. My environment tends to be an editor window and a shell to run things from (thus: 2 terminals, one running vim and one running a shell). Training your fingers to do the trivia reflexively helps. And leaving the linting until _after_ you've got your code working correctly helps, because you aren't changing tasks midstream and you are linting code you've deleted or changed :-) An editor with syntax support can help. I use vi or vim, and its syntax support is fairly crude. Two things its does have which I use a lot is autoindent (as simple as starting the next line at the same indent as the one I just completed) and syntax highlighting, which colours keywords and identifiers and strings differently. When you make trivial mistakes like not closing a quote or misspelling a keyword or leaving off a colon there is often a visual cue. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:57 PM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 12Jun2018 07:14, Tamara Berger wrote: > >Just one more thing, Cameron. I was looking at an Apple support page, and it > >says "When you're logged in to your Mac using an administrator account, you > >can use the sudo command in the Terminal app to execute commands as a > >different user, such as the root user." > >(https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202035). I am logged in as administrator. > >So why isn't sudo working for me? > > >P.S. How would I make the link I provided live? > > What link? This is why we trim quoted text and reply below the relevant bit > directly: I don't know what link you provided or even whether it is there, > just buried in the huge quoted text. Just cite it again, eg: > > How would I make this link (link here) live? The link is above, in the first paragraph, beginning with the words "Just one more thing, Cameron." > And then, of course, tell us what "live" means :-) Live means live. It is not a word I created. It means that the link has been activated, so clicking on it will take you to the associated page. Here is a definition from www.yourdictionary.com/live-link. "Live Link - Computer Definition: An active text or graphic link on a Web page. Clicking the link redirects the user to another Web page or a document or image." The link to the definition I just copied into this paragraph is not live because clicking on it will not do anything. This question became moot when I posted my message, because that action activated the link. That is why I asked in my next post how one can edit one's own messages, because at that point I would have deleted this post. Thanks, Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
Hi Cameron, Thanks for the in-depth answer. I'm going to have to read it carefully, with the help of a Python glossary. Some of the terms you use are new to me. >or am I supposed to root around for my module and make the edits one by one? I was trying to be amusing and didn't get my point across. >Finally, no you don't normally root around and change an installed module. >Instead, modify your original copy and reinstall the newer version! What I meant was, do I have to open the file, search for, e.g., colons and insert space after them? These were the sorts of picayune errors picked up by PEP8 on my program. I deliberately omit such spaces when I code because I like to do as little unnecessary work as possible. There is enough repetitive coding as it is. I know some IDEs have word completion suggestion for variables, etc, that the user creates. But I'm practicing in barebones IDLE and that means a lot of extra work. Thanks, Tamara On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:17 PM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 12Jun2018 07:51, Tamara Berger wrote: > [... snip ...] > >One more thing about PEP8. My workbook is a bit skimpy on details. Is there a > >quick way to make the edits > > PEP8 is a style recommendation for Python code: > > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ > > It is followed pretty rigorously in the Python standard library, and most > Python code follows a lot of it as a matter of good practice, in that (a) it > is > a fairly good style, producing easy to read code and (b) when everyone uses > the > same or similar styes, we all find other people's code easier to read. > > But it is not enforced. > > There are several "lint" tools around which will look at your code and > complain > about violations of PEP8 and various other constraints generally held to be > good to obey, particularly some kinds of initialisation errors and other > practices that while syntacticly legal may indicate bugs or lead to header to > debug or maintain code. > > Also, some text editors have facilities for autostyling code, sometimes as you > type it and sometimes as a final step when you save the modified file. > > For example, there are tools like autopep8 > (https://pypi.org/project/autopep8/) > which will modify python code directly to apply the PEP8 style. > > Personally, I run a few lint commands against my Python code by hand, and hand > repair. Typical workflow goes: > > - modify code for whatever reason (add feature, fix bugs, etc) and test > > - when happy, _then_ run a lint tool and tidy up most of what it reports > > - _then_ instal the code where other things may use it (eg pip install) > > My personal kit has a "lint" shell script: > > https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin-cs/lint > > which runs my preferred linters against code files, and for Python it runs: > > - pyflakes: https://pypi.org/project/pyflakes/ > > - pep8: https://pypi.org/project/pep8/ > > - pylint: https://pypi.org/project/pylint/, > https://pylint.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ > > These can all be installed using pip: > > pip install --user pyflakes pep8 pylint > > As you can see from my lint script I run them with various options that > oveeride their default checks to better match my preffered code style. > > >or am I supposed to root around for my module and make the edits one by one? > > Finally, no you don't normally root around and change an installed module. > Instead, modify your original copy and reinstall the newer version! > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Cameron Simpson wrote: >> >> PEP8 is a style recommendation for Python code: >> >> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ > > > Specifically, it's a style guide for *code in the Python > standard library*, as it says in the Introduction: > >> This document gives coding conventions for the Python code comprising > >> the standard library in the main Python distribution. > > Some of its recommendations are also good to follow in > general Python code, but whether you do so is entirely > up to you. Many of its recommendations are good to follow in code written in other languages, too :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pep8 Re: Posting warning message
Cameron Simpson wrote: PEP8 is a style recommendation for Python code: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Specifically, it's a style guide for *code in the Python standard library*, as it says in the Introduction: This document gives coding conventions for the Python code comprising > the standard library in the main Python distribution. Some of its recommendations are also good to follow in general Python code, but whether you do so is entirely up to you. -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
pep8 Re: Posting warning message
On 12Jun2018 07:51, Tamara Berger wrote: [... snip ...] One more thing about PEP8. My workbook is a bit skimpy on details. Is there a quick way to make the edits PEP8 is a style recommendation for Python code: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ It is followed pretty rigorously in the Python standard library, and most Python code follows a lot of it as a matter of good practice, in that (a) it is a fairly good style, producing easy to read code and (b) when everyone uses the same or similar styes, we all find other people's code easier to read. But it is not enforced. There are several "lint" tools around which will look at your code and complain about violations of PEP8 and various other constraints generally held to be good to obey, particularly some kinds of initialisation errors and other practices that while syntacticly legal may indicate bugs or lead to header to debug or maintain code. Also, some text editors have facilities for autostyling code, sometimes as you type it and sometimes as a final step when you save the modified file. For example, there are tools like autopep8 (https://pypi.org/project/autopep8/) which will modify python code directly to apply the PEP8 style. Personally, I run a few lint commands against my Python code by hand, and hand repair. Typical workflow goes: - modify code for whatever reason (add feature, fix bugs, etc) and test - when happy, _then_ run a lint tool and tidy up most of what it reports - _then_ instal the code where other things may use it (eg pip install) My personal kit has a "lint" shell script: https://bitbucket.org/cameron_simpson/css/src/tip/bin-cs/lint which runs my preferred linters against code files, and for Python it runs: - pyflakes: https://pypi.org/project/pyflakes/ - pep8: https://pypi.org/project/pep8/ - pylint: https://pypi.org/project/pylint/, https://pylint.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ These can all be installed using pip: pip install --user pyflakes pep8 pylint As you can see from my lint script I run them with various options that oveeride their default checks to better match my preffered code style. or am I supposed to root around for my module and make the edits one by one? Finally, no you don't normally root around and change an installed module. Instead, modify your original copy and reinstall the newer version! Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 12Jun2018 07:14, Tamara Berger wrote: On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:28:29 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: [...] >192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest >Password: >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory >is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check >the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you >may want sudo's -H flag. sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So it is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is (correctly) owned by you. [...] Just one more thing, Cameron. I was looking at an Apple support page, and it says "When you're logged in to your Mac using an administrator account, you can use the sudo command in the Terminal app to execute commands as a different user, such as the root user." (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202035). I am logged in as administrator. So why isn't sudo working for me? Please trim the quoted material of the irrelevant bits. Like the above. It makes things managable for others. Sudo is working just fine: it is running pip as the root user. That's _all_ it does. Pip itself makes certain sanity checks before it proceeds, and here it is complaining that its cache directory is not entirely owned by the user it is running as (root). That is because without the -H option it is trying to use _your_ cache directory. Now, as root, it _could_ tread all over that directory with updates. But that would be rude, specificly because later, when _you_ go to run pip without sudo and with the --user option, portions of that cache directory will not be owned by you, and may not be readable or modifiable etc. So it refuses. P.S. How would I make the link I provided live? What link? This is why we trim quoted text and reply below the relevant bit directly: I don't know what link you provided or even whether it is there, just buried in the huge quoted text. Just cite it again, eg: How would I make this link (link here) live? And then, of course, tell us what "live" means :-) Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 12Jun2018 07:48, Tamara Berger wrote: On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:27:06 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:17 AM, T Berger wrote: > Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message once > its posted? Or do I have to delete it and rewrite it? Nope. And you can't delete it either. I deleted them a number of time, then got a bar across the page indicating that a post had been deleted. As has been mentioned, any "delete" you do on Google Groups is pretty limited, possibly only to Google's copy. The message has already gone planetwide. Google's delete _may_ propagate to the rest of usenet, and _may_ be obeyed in some of those places. But it certainly doesn't propagate to the mailing list, and even if it did, those of use who pull the list down to our personal mail folders would ignore such a thing. It's nuts that you can't edit your own post. No, it is actually good: - there's not one copy of your post that google can modify: it gets copied planet wide, to thousands or millions of independent places - how do people discover that you've modified a post, to review your change? how do their replies before your modification make any kind of sense if the preceeding message is no longer what they replied to? The correct way to correct a post is to follow up to it (reply to it) with a correction or clarification. That way everyone sees the change/fix as a new messge. And it works even though the messages get copied everywhere, because all that has to happen is to copy your own new message. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 06/12/2018 08:48 AM, T Berger wrote: > I deleted them a number of time, then got a bar across the page indicating > that a post had been deleted. It's nuts that you can't edit your own post. This "forum" is actually a mailing list mirrored to Usenet, so whatever you post gets instantly emailed out to the list members, and also gets sent to all the Usenet servers throughout the world. So by the time you want to edit your post, it's already in my email box. You're accessing it via Google Groups, but it's not really an online forum. It just looks like one. Google Groups may let you delete your message within Groups, but out here on the mailing list where I am, and on Usenet where others read, you definitely can't. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 2018-06-12, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:17 AM, T Berger wrote: > >> Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message >> once its posted? Or do I have to delete it and rewrite it? > > Nope. And you can't delete it either. That depends. If you're posting via NNTP, and your NNTP server supports CANCEL messages, and the posting hasn't been passed on to any peers yet, then you _can_ delete it. But, I'd bet cash money those conditions are not true for T Berger. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Are we live or on at tape? gmail.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:28:29 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > >> Tamara Berger wrote: > >> > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > >> > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > >> python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > >> sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > >> It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > >> telling it to execute a module. > > > >Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt > >and the terminal's response. > > > >192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >Password: > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent > >directory > >is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please > >check > >the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you > >may want sudo's -H flag. > > sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So > it > is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is > (correctly) owned by you. > > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is > >not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check > >the > >permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may > >want sudo's -H flag. > > Have a look at the sudo command's manual page, by running the command: > > man sudo > > In that we can read this: > >-H The -H (HOME) option option sets the HOME environment >variable to the home directory of the target user (root by >default) as specified by the password database. The >default handling of the HOME environment variable depends >on sudoers(5) settings. By default, sudo will set HOME if >env_reset or always_set_home are set, or if set_home is >set and the -s option is specified on the command line. > > So the message is a reasonable suggestion, and it is suggesting that you run > this command: > > sudo -H python3 -m pip install pytest > > Regarding the other messages: > > >Requirement already satisfied: pytest in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > >Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > > This is all fine - it is just saying that various prerequisites are already > there. > > >You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. > >You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. > > This is just a suggestion to upgrade pip. Since you're running pip from > Python's "pip" builtin module this effectively suggests upgrading your Python > 3 > install. Not important or urgent. > > >So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of > >permissions. > >Do you have a suggestion? > > Sudo isn't magic, and treating it like magic is very common, which is one > reason I discourage unthinking use of it. > > Sudo exists to let your run specific commands as root, the system superuser. > (It also has modes to run as other users, but root is the default and also > the > most dangerous.) > > When you use sudo you have almost unlimited power to change things. This is > handy for installation activities, and also handy for doing unbound damage to > the OS install. > > I still recommend that you avoid sudo here and use pip's --user option, > installing the packages in your personal Python tree. It will work just as > well > for almost every purpose and avoid risk to your machine's OS. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson One more thing about PEP8. My workbook is a bit skimpy on details. Is there a quick way to make the edits or
Re: Posting warning message
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:27:06 AM UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:17 AM, T Berger wrote: > > > > Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message once > > its posted? Or do I have to delete it and rewrite it? > > Nope. And you can't delete it either. > > ChrisA I deleted them a number of time, then got a bar across the page indicating that a post had been deleted. It's nuts that you can't edit your own post. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:17 AM, T Berger wrote: > > Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message once its > posted? Or do I have to delete it and rewrite it? Nope. And you can't delete it either. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:28:29 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > >> Tamara Berger wrote: > >> > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > >> > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > >> python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > >> sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > >> It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > >> telling it to execute a module. > > > >Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt > >and the terminal's response. > > > >192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >Password: > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent > >directory > >is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please > >check > >the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you > >may want sudo's -H flag. > > sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So > it > is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is > (correctly) owned by you. > > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is > >not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check > >the > >permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may > >want sudo's -H flag. > > Have a look at the sudo command's manual page, by running the command: > > man sudo > > In that we can read this: > >-H The -H (HOME) option option sets the HOME environment >variable to the home directory of the target user (root by >default) as specified by the password database. The >default handling of the HOME environment variable depends >on sudoers(5) settings. By default, sudo will set HOME if >env_reset or always_set_home are set, or if set_home is >set and the -s option is specified on the command line. > > So the message is a reasonable suggestion, and it is suggesting that you run > this command: > > sudo -H python3 -m pip install pytest > > Regarding the other messages: > > >Requirement already satisfied: pytest in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > >Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > > This is all fine - it is just saying that various prerequisites are already > there. > > >You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. > >You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. > > This is just a suggestion to upgrade pip. Since you're running pip from > Python's "pip" builtin module this effectively suggests upgrading your Python > 3 > install. Not important or urgent. > > >So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of > >permissions. > >Do you have a suggestion? > > Sudo isn't magic, and treating it like magic is very common, which is one > reason I discourage unthinking use of it. > > Sudo exists to let your run specific commands as root, the system superuser. > (It also has modes to run as other users, but root is the default and also > the > most dangerous.) > > When you use sudo you have almost unlimited power to change things. This is > handy for installation activities, and also handy for doing unbound damage to > the OS install. > > I still recommend that you avoid sudo here and use pip's --user option, > installing the packages in your personal Python tree. It will work just as > well > for almost every purpose and avoid risk to your machine's OS. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson Sorry, to bother you again. But is there some way to edit a message once its posted? Or do I have to delete it
Re: Posting warning message
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:28:29 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > >> Tamara Berger wrote: > >> > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > >> > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > >> python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > >> sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > >> It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > >> telling it to execute a module. > > > >Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt > >and the terminal's response. > > > >192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >Password: > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent > >directory > >is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please > >check > >the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you > >may want sudo's -H flag. > > sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So > it > is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is > (correctly) owned by you. > > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is > >not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check > >the > >permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may > >want sudo's -H flag. > > Have a look at the sudo command's manual page, by running the command: > > man sudo > > In that we can read this: > >-H The -H (HOME) option option sets the HOME environment >variable to the home directory of the target user (root by >default) as specified by the password database. The >default handling of the HOME environment variable depends >on sudoers(5) settings. By default, sudo will set HOME if >env_reset or always_set_home are set, or if set_home is >set and the -s option is specified on the command line. > > So the message is a reasonable suggestion, and it is suggesting that you run > this command: > > sudo -H python3 -m pip install pytest > > Regarding the other messages: > > >Requirement already satisfied: pytest in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > >Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > > This is all fine - it is just saying that various prerequisites are already > there. > > >You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. > >You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. > > This is just a suggestion to upgrade pip. Since you're running pip from > Python's "pip" builtin module this effectively suggests upgrading your Python > 3 > install. Not important or urgent. > > >So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of > >permissions. > >Do you have a suggestion? > > Sudo isn't magic, and treating it like magic is very common, which is one > reason I discourage unthinking use of it. > > Sudo exists to let your run specific commands as root, the system superuser. > (It also has modes to run as other users, but root is the default and also > the > most dangerous.) > > When you use sudo you have almost unlimited power to change things. This is > handy for installation activities, and also handy for doing unbound damage to > the OS install. > > I still recommend that you avoid sudo here and use pip's --user option, > installing the packages in your personal Python tree. It will work just as > well > for almost every purpose and avoid risk to your machine's OS. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson Just one more thing, Cameron. I was looking at an Apple support page, and it says "When you're logged in to
Re: Posting warning message
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Tamara Berger wrote: > > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > > > > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > > ... > python3 -m pip install pytest > > You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > > sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > > > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > > It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > telling it to execute a module. > > (What you did was first launch the Python interpreter and > then tell it to run "python3 -m pip install pytest" as a > Python statement. But it's not Python code, it's a shell > command.) > > -- > Greg Thanks, Greg, for your answer. It helped me out of that hole. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:28:29 AM UTC-4, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: > >On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > >> Tamara Berger wrote: > >> > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > >> > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > >> python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > >> sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >> > >> > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > >> It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > >> telling it to execute a module. > > > >Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt > >and the terminal's response. > > > >192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > >Password: > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent > >directory > >is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please > >check > >the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you > >may want sudo's -H flag. > > sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So > it > is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is > (correctly) owned by you. > > >The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is > >not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check > >the > >permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may > >want sudo's -H flag. > > Have a look at the sudo command's manual page, by running the command: > > man sudo > > In that we can read this: > >-H The -H (HOME) option option sets the HOME environment >variable to the home directory of the target user (root by >default) as specified by the password database. The >default handling of the HOME environment variable depends >on sudoers(5) settings. By default, sudo will set HOME if >env_reset or always_set_home are set, or if set_home is >set and the -s option is specified on the command line. > > So the message is a reasonable suggestion, and it is suggesting that you run > this command: > > sudo -H python3 -m pip install pytest > > Regarding the other messages: > > >Requirement already satisfied: pytest in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > >Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > >Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in > >/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages > > (from pytest) > > This is all fine - it is just saying that various prerequisites are already > there. > > >You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. > >You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. > > This is just a suggestion to upgrade pip. Since you're running pip from > Python's "pip" builtin module this effectively suggests upgrading your Python > 3 > install. Not important or urgent. > > >So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of > >permissions. > >Do you have a suggestion? > > Sudo isn't magic, and treating it like magic is very common, which is one > reason I discourage unthinking use of it. > > Sudo exists to let your run specific commands as root, the system superuser. > (It also has modes to run as other users, but root is the default and also > the > most dangerous.) > > When you use sudo you have almost unlimited power to change things. This is > handy for installation activities, and also handy for doing unbound damage to > the OS install. > > I still recommend that you avoid sudo here and use pip's --user option, > installing the packages in your personal Python tree. It will work just as > well > for almost every purpose and avoid risk to your machine's OS. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson Thanks a lot, Cameron. I was going to try the --user option this morning, if no one had responded to my post.
Re: Posting warning message
On 11Jun2018 22:51, Tamara Berger wrote: On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: Tamara Berger wrote: > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 python3 -m pip install pytest You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter telling it to execute a module. Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt and the terminal's response. 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest Password: The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. sudo leaves the $HOME environment variable unchanged, at least on my Mac. So it is using your personal cache directory. And rejecting it becuse it is (correctly) owned by you. The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. Have a look at the sudo command's manual page, by running the command: man sudo In that we can read this: -H The -H (HOME) option option sets the HOME environment variable to the home directory of the target user (root by default) as specified by the password database. The default handling of the HOME environment variable depends on sudoers(5) settings. By default, sudo will set HOME if env_reset or always_set_home are set, or if set_home is set and the -s option is specified on the command line. So the message is a reasonable suggestion, and it is suggesting that you run this command: sudo -H python3 -m pip install pytest Regarding the other messages: Requirement already satisfied: pytest in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) This is all fine - it is just saying that various prerequisites are already there. You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. This is just a suggestion to upgrade pip. Since you're running pip from Python's "pip" builtin module this effectively suggests upgrading your Python 3 install. Not important or urgent. So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of permissions. Do you have a suggestion? Sudo isn't magic, and treating it like magic is very common, which is one reason I discourage unthinking use of it. Sudo exists to let your run specific commands as root, the system superuser. (It also has modes to run as other users, but root is the default and also the most dangerous.) When you use sudo you have almost unlimited power to change things. This is handy for installation activities, and also handy for doing unbound damage to the OS install. I still recommend that you avoid sudo here and use pip's --user option, installing the packages in your personal Python tree. It will work just as well for almost every purpose and avoid risk to your machine's OS. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:24:58 PM UTC-4, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Tamara Berger wrote: > > I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: > > > > 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > > ... > python3 -m pip install pytest > > You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: > > sudo python3 -m pip install pytest > > > What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? > > It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter > telling it to execute a module. > > (What you did was first launch the Python interpreter and > then tell it to run "python3 -m pip install pytest" as a > Python statement. But it's not Python code, it's a shell > command.) > > -- > Greg Thanks, Greg. But I got a permission error. Here is my command at the prompt and the terminal's response. 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 -m pip install pytest Password: The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip/http' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and the cache has been disabled. Please check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. The directory '/Users/TamaraB/Library/Caches/pip' or its parent directory is not owned by the current user and caching wheels has been disabled. check the permissions and owner of that directory. If executing pip with sudo, you may want sudo's -H flag. Requirement already satisfied: pytest in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: pluggy<0.7,>=0.5 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: atomicwrites>=1.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: more-itertools>=4.0.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: six>=1.10.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: py>=1.5.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) Requirement already satisfied: attrs>=17.4.0 in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.6/lib/python3.6/site-packages (from pytest) You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available. You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. So I'm stuck again. I thought "sudo" was supposed to take care of permissions. Do you have a suggestion? Thanks, Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
Tamara Berger wrote: I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 > ... python3 -m pip install pytest You need to enter this *single* line in the Terminal: sudo python3 -m pip install pytest What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? It's a cmmand-line option to the python interpreter telling it to execute a module. (What you did was first launch the Python interpreter and then tell it to run "python3 -m pip install pytest" as a Python statement. But it's not Python code, it's a shell command.) -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 11Jun2018 11:54, Tamara Berger wrote: I did subscribe to the mailing list, but it opened the floodgates to a torrent of irrelevant emails. I didn't know how to turn the flood off, so I unsubscribed. How do I set the appropriate option? My personal approach is to add a filter for list messages as soon as they start to arrive. I suggested using GMail's "Filter messages like this" action (under the "More" button up the top) to: - skip the inbox (removes the flood from your inbox) - add the label Python (or python-list or whatever you like) This is getting off topic for Python; we should take this off-list to personal email if you agree. I was just going to post another message to google groups. If you don't mind, I'll ask you now. This question wants a separate thread of its own with a distinct subject line. That way people ignoring the current thread (google/groups/email) can see it and respond. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 2018-06-11 16:54, Tamara Berger wrote: I did subscribe to the mailing list, but it opened the floodgates to a torrent of irrelevant emails. I didn't know how to turn the flood off, so I unsubscribed. How do I set the appropriate option? I was just going to post another message to google groups. If you don't mind, I'll ask you now. I got an error message when trying to install pytest. Following the workbook, I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: Last login: Mon Jun 11 11:07:46 on ttys000 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 Password: Python 3.6.4 (v3.6.4:d48ecebad5, Dec 18 2017, 21:07:28) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. python3 -m pip install pytest File "", line 1 python3 -m pip install pytest ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax That should've been typed at the system's prompt, not Python's. I know you warned against using the sudo command, but Apple supports using it. What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
Apropos my earlier message: Before I post a question, I search online for an answer. Though I try all combinations of search terms, I get irrelevant results. Do you have a suggestion on how to frame searches? Tamara On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 4:32 AM Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 10Jun2018 23:38, Tamara Berger wrote: > >Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions. I didn't respond to your posts > >earlier because I wasn't notified by email updates. I don't understand why > >they've stopped coming. I didn't change any settings. > > Maybe we haven't been CCing you directly, just posting straight back to the > list. Did you tick "Automatically subscribe me to email updates when I post to > a topic" in the group settings? > > This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Many of us prefer that to Google Groups. You have the advantage that email > messages arrive to your GMail directly, instead of to the group. You can > easily > file messages from the list into its own folder (in GMail, this is called > "apply a label"). > > Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's "filter > messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and > "Skip > the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail folder > in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the > Group. > > Cheers, > Cameron Simpson (formerly c...@zip.com.au) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
I did subscribe to the mailing list, but it opened the floodgates to a torrent of irrelevant emails. I didn't know how to turn the flood off, so I unsubscribed. How do I set the appropriate option? I was just going to post another message to google groups. If you don't mind, I'll ask you now. I got an error message when trying to install pytest. Following the workbook, I typed these 2 lines in the terminal: Last login: Mon Jun 11 11:07:46 on ttys000 192:~ TamaraB$ sudo python3 Password: Python 3.6.4 (v3.6.4:d48ecebad5, Dec 18 2017, 21:07:28) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> python3 -m pip install pytest File "", line 1 python3 -m pip install pytest ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax >>> I know you warned against using the sudo command, but Apple supports using it. What does the "-m" stand for in the line of code? Thanks, Tamara -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 10Jun2018 23:38, Tamara Berger wrote: Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions. I didn't respond to your posts earlier because I wasn't notified by email updates. I don't understand why they've stopped coming. I didn't change any settings. Maybe we haven't been CCing you directly, just posting straight back to the list. Did you tick "Automatically subscribe me to email updates when I post to a topic" in the group settings? This is one reason to prefer the mailing list. You can subscribe here: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Many of us prefer that to Google Groups. You have the advantage that email messages arrive to your GMail directly, instead of to the group. You can easily file messages from the list into its own folder (in GMail, this is called "apply a label"). Wait for the first message or so and for that message choose GMail's "filter messages like this" action. I like to choose "Apply the label Python" and "Skip the inbox" for such things. Then you'll get a nice little "Python" mail folder in your collection where the list will accumulate. And less spam than the Group. Cheers, Cameron Simpson (formerly c...@zip.com.au) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions. I didn't respond to your posts earlier because I wasn't notified by email updates. I don't understand why they've stopped coming. I didn't change any settings. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On 10Jun2018 11:26, John Ladasky wrote: On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 7:47:01 AM UTC-7, T Berger wrote: When I go to post a reply, I get a warning asking if I want my email address (or other email addresses listed) visible to all, and do I want to edit my post. What should I do? Are you posting through Google Groups? Sometimes I see that warning as well. Some, but not all, Usenet software deliberately mangles email addresses when composing posts. Ah, interesting. It's a good thing to mangle email addresses when posting publicly, as it makes it harder for spammers to find new targets. So answer "yes", and manually edit any email addresses you see in the post so that they can't be recovered. "Good" is subjective. I don't think it is a good thing, but many people do. My reasoning is that I'm never going to successfully hide my email address, so usually I won't bother. If I need to post somewhere I'd like private, I can always invent a random address like: c2d56bb1edc5a...@mailinator.com for that special purpose and move on. GMail has good spam filtering tech on the whole, so its users should be relatively comfortable about spam. So when I post to a public forum I usually use my normal email address. This is a personal decision and anyone might choose differently. Cheers, Cameron Simpson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 4:26 AM, John Ladasky wrote: > On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 7:47:01 AM UTC-7, T Berger wrote: >> When I go to post a reply, I get a warning asking if I want my email address >> (or other email addresses listed) visible to all, and do I want to edit my >> post. What should I do? > > Are you posting through Google Groups? Sometimes I see that warning as well. > > Some, but not all, Usenet software deliberately mangles email addresses when > composing posts. It's a good thing to mangle email addresses when posting > publicly, as it makes it harder for spammers to find new targets. So answer > "yes", and manually edit any email addresses you see in the post so that they > can't be recovered. For example, if my email address was posted undisguised, > you could edit it to "j...@g...com" and that should do the trick. > Or just use the mailing list and do things honestly. Much easier AND safer than using Google Groups. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Posting warning message
On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 7:47:01 AM UTC-7, T Berger wrote: > When I go to post a reply, I get a warning asking if I want my email address > (or other email addresses listed) visible to all, and do I want to edit my > post. What should I do? Are you posting through Google Groups? Sometimes I see that warning as well. Some, but not all, Usenet software deliberately mangles email addresses when composing posts. It's a good thing to mangle email addresses when posting publicly, as it makes it harder for spammers to find new targets. So answer "yes", and manually edit any email addresses you see in the post so that they can't be recovered. For example, if my email address was posted undisguised, you could edit it to "j...@g...com" and that should do the trick. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Posting warning message
When I go to post a reply, I get a warning asking if I want my email address (or other email addresses listed) visible to all, and do I want to edit my post. What should I do? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
