Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > That's interesting, Ben. So we'd be better off making a new library > similiar to Pygame in functionality but designed from the ground up to > work in a browser. In open source community, that would be YOU since you are the one with the need :-). Maybe you can make "Python WebStart". Running foreign native code from a browser has long been abandoned as a bad idea since ActiveX spyware proliferation (which BTW, is another way to package your game as. Although that would effectively restrict it to IE just like XPCOM would restrict it to Mozilla family). Plus your users will have to download Python somehow (Python is not as widespread as Java or Flash on consumer desktops), either as part of the game or independently. And finally, if PyGame was written in pure Python without taking advantage of SDL to be fully cross-platform, it would likely not be fast anymore. It better be a REALLY great game to go with all these issues :-). > I guess that XPCOM technology that someone > mentioned might be the way to go? It is far simpler to just use Jython and some Java Game library instead of PyGame if browser delivery is that important to you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > That's interesting, Ben. So we'd be better off making a new library > similiar to Pygame in functionality but designed from the ground up to > work in a browser. I think it depends on what is most important to you. Options available include going with Java or Flash instead (ie. dropping Python), or using a Jython applet (which I know nothing about), or perhaps abandoning the browser and sticking with PyGame, etc. What are your requirements? > I guess that XPCOM technology that someone > mentioned might be the way to go? I was under the impression that XPCOM was a Mozilla-only technology; if so, maybe that won't fit your requirements either. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
That's interesting, Ben. So we'd be better off making a new library similiar to Pygame in functionality but designed from the ground up to work in a browser. I guess that XPCOM technology that someone mentioned might be the way to go? On 10 Jul 2006 03:54:33 -0700, Ben Sizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gregory Piñero wrote: > > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > > attempted this? > > I doubt you can get PyGame to work this way - at least, not without > some significant hacking around in the source - since PyGame relies on > the underlying SDL library, and from my experience with it, I can't see > it playing well with a browser whatsoever. I think SDL would have to > acquire a new backend to translate input to the plugin into their event > structure, and would require some way of creating an appropriate video > mode that can draw to a browser's window, etc. Java applets and Flash > are built for this purpose whereas PyGame is built on a technology that > was designed for programs that have their own window and tend to > capture all the OS's input. > > -- > Ben Sizer > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- Gregory Piñero Chief Innovation Officer Blended Technologies (www.blendedtechnologies.com) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > attempted this? I doubt you can get PyGame to work this way - at least, not without some significant hacking around in the source - since PyGame relies on the underlying SDL library, and from my experience with it, I can't see it playing well with a browser whatsoever. I think SDL would have to acquire a new backend to translate input to the plugin into their event structure, and would require some way of creating an appropriate video mode that can draw to a browser's window, etc. Java applets and Flash are built for this purpose whereas PyGame is built on a technology that was designed for programs that have their own window and tend to capture all the OS's input. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > Shane Wrote: >> Ah, so you also want to distribute untrusted Python code. That's fairly >> hard. There's a discussion about it on Python-Dev right now. > > Well, I want to write a game in Pygame, and people can just go to my > website and play it within their browser. I guess that would be > untrusted code? If they download your code with the plugin, your code is trusted. If they download it separately in a browser session, it's untrusted. So one way to get started quickly is to just mix your code with the plugin, and not attempt to enable execution of untrusted code. Shane -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > attempted this? I once played with a similar idea. Yes, it's possible, although platform differences make the idea non-trivial. Specifically, I ran into difficulty when I discovered that it's not easy on Linux to load a dynamic library (such as libpython.so) which in turn loads other dynamic libraries (such as native Python modules), since the library search path is not modifiable at runtime. A possible workaround is to launch a separate process which projects into the browser window. I don't know what surprises may pop up on other platforms. Shane -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > Are there security issues too? Would you remove potentially harmful > Python libraries for the plugin, not allow system calls, etc? Would > you only allow file system access in one area? Ah, so you also want to distribute untrusted Python code. That's fairly hard. There's a discussion about it on Python-Dev right now. > I guess you'd just copy however Java applets work? But run faster ;-) More or less. Shane -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
On Thu, 2006-07-06 at 14:24 -0400, Gregory Piñero wrote: > Hi guys, > > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > attempted this? > At a previous position, I looked at this. Not for a game but for embedding our components in IE & Mozilla. I started work on a Mozilla (this was pre-firefox) plugin that was based on pyxpcom. The company told me to stop development due to changing business stuff, and I convinced them to release the non-working source. However, I have since lost the source code. It was a strange situation as I wasn't allowed to start a sf project, and hosted the source on my website. (they didn't want to be "seen supporting open source" if that makes any sense...esp since the project was largely python based). Unfortunately, sometime over the course of 2 web host changes and 1 move from NC to PA I lost the source. It might be available in a mailing list archive of the pyxpcom list. (I make no claims of quality code, this was during extra-special heavy duty start-up mode and I was getting maybe 6 hours of downtime a day for meals, sleep and saying "Hi" to my wife... so if you do manage to find the code, keep that in mind. :) ) It was not, as I recall, overly difficult at least conceptually since most of the cross-platform hurdles were handled by pyxpcom. Just follow the examples in pyxpcom and in the netscape documentation to get a basic plugin. This would load a xpcom component and start it. It was just a matter of creating the pyxpcom component and "that was it." (Pushing aside implementation details like getting pyxpcom installed on the machine, and how the extent of the plugin's area gets passed in and a bunch of other niggling little details.) Mind you this was back in 2002, so my memory may be simplifying things slightly, and there is always the chance that I was just flat out wrong from beginning to end. :) Also, I'd spent maybe 10 hours on the project before I was told to stop, so who knows what issues might be laying under the surface. For example, getting the same concept to work in IE ended up taking a great deal of development as we ended up using trolltech's ActiveQT to wrap our components (which were already QT classes). At anyrate, I'm 90% certain that it can be done and think it's a rockin' good idea. I might return to it in future, as my new employer may have a need, but that wouldn't be until at least next year, if not the year after that. > -- > Gregory Piñero > Chief Innovation Officer > Blended Technologies > (www.blendedtechnologies.com) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Shane Wrote: > Ah, so you also want to distribute untrusted Python code. That's fairly > hard. There's a discussion about it on Python-Dev right now. Well, I want to write a game in Pygame, and people can just go to my website and play it within their browser. I guess that would be untrusted code? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Are there security issues too? Would you remove potentially harmful Python libraries for the plugin, not allow system calls, etc? Would you only allow file system access in one area? I guess you'd just copy however Java applets work? But run faster ;-) On 7/7/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gregory Piñero wrote: > > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > > attempted this? > > I once played with a similar idea. Yes, it's possible, although > platform differences make the idea non-trivial. > > Specifically, I ran into difficulty when I discovered that it's not easy > on Linux to load a dynamic library (such as libpython.so) which in turn > loads other dynamic libraries (such as native Python modules), since the > library search path is not modifiable at runtime. A possible workaround > is to launch a separate process which projects into the browser window. > > I don't know what surprises may pop up on other platforms. > > Shane > -- Gregory Piñero Chief Innovation Officer Blended Technologies (www.blendedtechnologies.com) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Gregory Piñero wrote: > I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in > for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently > shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone > attempted this? Not a plugin but at Europython the PyPy crew presented the Javascript backend of PyPy which transforms-converts a python program into a Javascript application (not sure I understood it all so ...). They showed us a Javascript version of the Bub-n-Bros game (written using pyGame). Pretty cool is you ask me. EuGeNe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Web Browser Pygame Plug-in?
Hi guys, I was just idley curious on what it would take to make a web plug-in for Pygame. I'm picturing it working the way my browser currently shows flash games. Is such an idea even possible? Has anyone attempted this? -- Gregory Piñero Chief Innovation Officer Blended Technologies (www.blendedtechnologies.com) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
